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Speaker John Boehner, Rep. Paul Ryan, Rep. Jeb Hensarling, Rep. Eric Cantor and Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers. (Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)
Still taking hostages.
While the rest of the country is distracted by the election, the administration and the Senate are trying to do something with House Republican leadership on taxes. Since the Congress has decided to quit work until the election this week, the big fight will come in lame duck session, and thus for prospects of getting out that term without some real damage done to the nation's safety net:
Leaders on both sides of the dome, in both parties, are meeting with key Obama administration officials on Capitol Hill, quietly mulling different legislative strategies to avoid massive tax hikes on all Americans. At the same time, lawmakers are beginning to carve out positions for their parties for what will become a months-long rhetorical and legislative war leading up to a series of year-end deadlines.

In one day, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner met with both House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.). The meeting with Camp was directly focused on the year-end expiration of tax rates — widely known in Washington as the “fiscal cliff.” Boehner’s office said he and Geithner spoke about the European debt crisis, but it declined to answer whether tax rates were discussed. [...]

If the polls stay where they are today, and Republicans keep the House, Democrats hold the Senate and Obama wins the presidency, top aides in both parties insist that tax rates on the wealthy will go up. But those aides, who are involved in planning for the year-end battles, say the legislative gridlock could give both sides the incentive to strike a grand deficit and tax compromise.

Same old story. Right now there's a bill sitting in the House, passed by the Senate, that would extend the tax cuts for people making under $250,000. If John Boehner and Dave Camp were actually trying to solve the problem, trying to, you know, be responsible representatives for the people who elected them, they would put that bill on the floor and they would whip their members to pass it.

But the reality is, they're more beholden to Grover Norquist than to the American people. All Republicans are—they proved it when the voted to block middle-class tax cuts, holding them hostage to the tax cuts for millionaires. They will continue to hold the tax cuts for 98 percent of Americans hostage.

They don't want to give up that bargaining chip for their primary goal: a "grand bargain" that slashes entitlements, weakening Social Security and Medicare and decimating Medicaid. You now, that stuff that many of the 47 percenters rely on to survive.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:43 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (29+ / 0-)

    "There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning." —Warren Buffett

    by Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:43:41 AM PDT

  •  Joanie, title weird "out over about" (0+ / 0-)

    fix change reword
    :)
    love, ma

    Give me back my democracy. 50% + 1

    by stagemom on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:50:33 AM PDT

  •  Let all the tax cuts expire (11+ / 0-)

    The additional revenue generated from higher income taxes for families with incomes of more than $250,000 generates less than $100 billion a year. Letting all the tax cuts expire generates almost $400 billion a year, enough to actually impact the deficit in a meaningful way. If the GOP keeps the House it's the only significant revenue increase the Treasury will see for at least two years, and maybe four. Let it happen.  

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:52:39 AM PDT

    •  um. The debt is NOT the current problem. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, cacamp, ZedMont, luckylizard

      Pulling that kind of money out of the pockets of the poor and middle class will send the economy into a tailspin.

      The adage "don't raise taxes during a recession" really does apply; at least to those who would otherwise spend it immediately (or, rather, not have to spend).

      Notice: This Comment © 2012 ROGNM

      by ROGNM on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 09:19:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ROGNM - If the GOP keeps the House (6+ / 0-)

        The Dems will have two choices:

        Extend ALL the tax cuts for two years.

        Let ALL the tax cuts expire.

        Pick one.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 09:47:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let ALL the tax cuts expire n/t (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW, auditor, thomask

          The only trouble with retirement is...I never get a day off!

          by Mr Robert on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:26:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  this is wrong (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          auditor, OldDragon, thomask

          You underrestimate the power of the MIC to force Congress to protect the defense budget. Enormous pressure will be bought on congress to compromise and find a solution even if it means some taxes.

          The real problem is getting the democrats to stick to their guns on sequestration. If they do the GOP leadership will find a way to get past the teabaggers.

          America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

          by cacamp on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:34:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  cacamp - I don't think you are right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            thomask

            It's all going to happen post election so the dynamics will be different than they are today. However, I don't think that the GOP will allow rates to rise because of their votes. I think they believe the fallout will be less if they pass a bill extending all the cuts and the Senate never votes on it and all the tax cuts sunset. Now if the Dems take the House something new will be passed in the House in 2013 and might make it through the Senate.  

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:48:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Kill all the Bush Tax Cuts (0+ / 0-)

          I will gladly pay $8.00 additional per week if the Romneys of the world oonce again start paying actual taxes instead of a 13% pittance.

          •  Hockeyray - it would raise the effective rate (0+ / 0-)

            on the top 1% by about five points, the capital gains rate goes from 15% to 20% and the top marginal rate for earned income moves from 35% to 40%.  So it would move Romney to about 18%.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 08:31:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But it's a step in the right direction. (0+ / 0-)

              Also that "Carried Interest" loophole which allows Romney to pay such a low rate was part of Bush Tax Cut 2003 Tax Cuts.  That income stream would return to 39.6%.

              •  Hockeyray - carried interest would not change (0+ / 0-)

                The treatment of carried interest as a capital gain goes back to a Tax Court case in the early 1970s. It has never been part of any legislation. The Tax Court was convinced that because under partnership law the allocation of profits and losses is by contract between the investors and the managers that all equity owners should be treated the same. If you understand partnership law it actually has logic to it. It could be changed by legislation, but was under the radar until very recently, and predates both the establishment of hedge funds and private equity funds.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:11:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Not true. The special treatment on carried (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                interest was started long before the 2003 tax cuts.

                The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

                by nextstep on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:12:46 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Don't forget that the 3.8% Medicare tax on (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib

              capital gains, interest, royalties, etc.  starts on Jan 1.

              The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

              by nextstep on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:09:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I can't just let this go.... (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ferg, JeffW, auditor, DemSign, OldDragon, VClib
        The adage "don't raise taxes during a recession" really does apply; at least to those who would otherwise spend it immediately (or, rather, not have to spend).
        This is uninformed "talking point" logic.  It's not nearly as simple as that.   Most of those tax cuts hit the wealthy.   They have plenty of cash now and are not investing in growth.  Those tax cuts expiring will not matter one bit to employment.

        Second, we don't get the choice of separating the middle class cuts from the other.  They are tied together and that will not be changed.  The Republicans simply will not let that happen.

        Third.  You can repass the middle class cuts separately after  they've expired a lot easier than trying to separate the middle class cuts from the cuts for the rich (which is effectively impossible).

        The Deficit and Debt IS a problem.  A big one.  It's just not the problem the Republicans say it is.  The political reality is that Republicans can beat us silly with it over and over again every election cycle.  Argue economic reality all you will, I agree with you, but politically we get killed by it regularly.  It's politically potent.  Progressive policies suffer because of the deficit and debt.  Fix the deficit to something reasonable and we will have to fight a lot few political headwinds in trying to further other progressive agendas.

    •  Agreed: let it happen! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DemSign, OldDragon, VClib

      Forget about trying to favor one group over another!

      Let taxes go up on everyone who pays taxes.

      This won't have any effect on the 47 percent so I really think it's time to go off the cliff.

      Cutbacks on the military? Great!

      The only trouble with retirement is...I never get a day off!

      by Mr Robert on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:25:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd be hit hard, but that's not the problem! (0+ / 0-)

      I don't disagree with the general approach you suggest. Had it been up to me, we would have kept the entire tax program of Clinton, avoided two wars (or 1 3/4).

      Depending on what year it is, I'll almost certainly get tagged even on the $250K level, not because my income is that but because I have to sell a house, etc, etc. (Second homes). I can live with that.

      I have fairly concrete issues here. One is that this is still a fragile economy. It needs breathing room. I don't especially like the waived portion of FICA-MEDICARE. We also need to take a fairly judicious approach to this.  An additional trillion dollars over 10 years beats the hell out of the Republican moaning about things costing hundreds of billions, which you find out are also over 10 years. The other thing is that a recovering economy will pump much more money into the economy and if we cut judiciously and slowly from military excess, we're getting somewhere because we will be reducing military spending as the last war winds down.

      Weighing in your position is this. We can't depend on keeping taxes at an appropriate level until the Republicans all die off, the party dies or hell opens wide for them as it should. If we cut, it makes significant reform very difficult. Frankly, I would favor a 10 year surtax on the highest incomes, to recoup what they've stolen.

      I am personally opposed to whole hog tax reform. We had that in the 80s for good or ill and the Republicans immediately started engaging in obstruction of actual taxes and raising all sorts of fees. We could return to few marginal rates and be more coherent so that forms are simpler. I would plan whole hog and if we're lucky enough to get both houses, doubted, we could take it step by step, starting at the top end and working our way down, staccato. Open up Capital Gains and Dividend income from lower incomes, raising them sharply for higher incomes. Do away with carried interest, tax hyperfast market trading. There are a ton of things we can do to get back to a virtuous cycle.

      But if we go back to all of the Clinton taxes, we need to be ready to move quickly to resolve the ineviable blowback.

       

  •  Catfood warning... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, We Won, cacamp, luckylizard

       Bowles related group raises $25 million for debt reduction campaign

     

     The Campaign to Fix the Debt

        An organization founded by Erskine Bowles and Al Simpson announced Tuesday that it has raised more than $25 million to launch a national campaign to encourage policy makers to pass debt legislation in the coming months.

        The Campaign to Fix the Debt has collected contributions from corporate CEOs and others for a national media campaign and advertising campaign to urge lawmakers reach a solution to the debt crisis.

        The organization was founded by Bowles, a Charlotte investment banker and former president of the University of North Carolina and Simpson, the former Wyoming senator, who headed a deficit commission appointed by President Barack Obama.

        The Campaign to Fix the Debt is being chaired by former Sen. Judd Gregg and former Gov. Edward Rendell, a Republican and a Democrat.

    Read more here: http://projects.newsobserver.com/....

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 03:46:55 PM EDT

    "Lets show the rascals what Citizens United really means."

    by smiley7 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:57:31 AM PDT

    •  The Unity Party! yuk (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      smiley7, JeffW

      Notice: This Comment © 2012 ROGNM

      by ROGNM on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 09:25:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Although the Catfood idea is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave925, smiley7

      catchy, the fact is that many of us find ourselves on the cusp of buying it now.  If things pan out for the deficit hawks, even cat food will be too expensive for us.  

      I am totally serious.  I get free bread at the senior center.  Sometimes, they even have produce but not often.  This is the season where those who garden bring in their excess to share with the rest of us.  If I didn't have a good (rich) friend who takes me to the store every few weeks for some serious shopping, I'd be a WHOLE lot thinner than I am now.  

      -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

      by luckylizard on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 11:50:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let the do-nothing Congress do nothing (10+ / 0-)

    If we do nothing, the broken tax policies of the Bush administration expire, defense spending slows a bit, and the deficit drops greatly while the next Congress raises or eliminates the debt ceiling and negotiates more appropriate policy for the future.

    Yes, the economy will slow and needlessly hurt lots of people for a year or two, but the alternatives will inflict more ongoing pain for much longer.

  •  There is an emerging trend that's bad for Repubs (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Odysseus, JeffW, OldDragon

    Everyone hates Congress, but increasingly people are seeing their inaction as being driven by bullies, and that many more of these bullies are Republicans.  With gridlock, solving problems is replaced by idealogical ego.  Opportunistic namecalling follows on both sides of the congressional aisles.  a few things are bad for the Republicans here.

    * "Throw the bums out" make the house, where they have an edge, most vulnerable to change.  The pres and senate, which are polled a lot more, show the dems to be holding their own amidst this.

    * The predominantly Republican strategy of just criticizing the other side or the current policies confirms in more and more voters that their petty tactics are not solving real problems.

    * There is no discernable republican vision FOR new solutions, and people want to hear that.

  •  If the current polling trend holds true in Nov (11+ / 0-)

    we will have a much friendlier House and Senate in 2013. There's no reason to compromise with the Teabaggers - and shoot the hostage - during the lame duck.

    Let everything expire. Let the new House and Senate negotiate a new plan based on the Clinton-era rates.

    NC-4 (soon to be NC-6) Obama/Biden 2012

    by bear83 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 09:10:51 AM PDT

  •  Let all the Bush tax cuts expire. Then see if (8+ / 0-)

    Republicans will filibuster a tax cut for households making less than 250,000 a year. Republicans took a pledge to not raise taxes, not a pledge not to cut taxes. This way Republicans can honor their pledge to their constituents by not voting to raise taxes. They can instead vote to cut taxes on the middle class.

    Brand new favorite RSS feed of Daily Kos Radio Podcasts http://kagrox.libsyn.com/rss
    Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

    by We Won on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 09:20:43 AM PDT

    •  Let the Norquist Defense Cuts take effect (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ModerateJosh, Alfred E Newman

      The expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts will lead directly to the Norquist Defense Cuts.  This is the Republican's  economic platform.  If they want to make a deal with some more revenues, the Democrats are in; if not, bring on the Norquist Defense Cuts.

      "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

      by oregonj on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:38:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think this statement is incorrect: (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuck utzman, ferg, Icicle68, ZedMont, auditor
    Right now there's a bill sitting in the House, passed by the Senate, that would extend the tax cuts for people making under $250,000.
    My understanding is that the bill would extend the tax cuts for everyone, on income up to $250,000.  Perhaps a small distinction, but I think one that makes a big difference in the discussion.
    •  That is correct. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, ZedMont, PeterHug

      That bill extends the tax cut for the first 250k of anyone's income.
      Everyone gets the cut, even if you make a gajillion dollars, the first $250k gets the cut.

      Everybody got to elevate from the norm....

      by Icicle68 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:11:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it's actually a very big distinction, and one (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PeterHug, Icicle68

        that should be front and center.  

        Billionaires and millionaires would in fact receive the same tax cut as someone earning $250,000 or less.  

        But of course, they deserve a tax cut on their FULL incomes...not to be confused with (clutch garlic necklace and fully extend arm holding crucifix) paying social security taxes on their full incomes.

        Because stupid people are so sure they're smart, they often act smart, and sometimes even smart people are too stupid to recognize that the stupid people acting smart really ARE stupid.

        by ZedMont on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:26:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm don't think I'd have picked Politico as a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    source for this story. Among other things, they claim that current polls show the Rethugs holding the House. I've not seen such a poll recently but I'm pretty sure Nate Silver will do a poll soon.
    We'll have a sensible solution to the county's financial woes only when the gridlock in Congress ends. I'm hoping for a next session withe the Dems back in control.

    Warren is neither a Clintonesque triangulator nor an Obamaesque conciliator. She is a throwback to a more combative progressive tradition, and her candidacy is a test of whether that approach can still appeal to voters.

    by chuck utzman on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 11:55:37 AM PDT

  •  Off. The. Cliff. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW

    (romney)/RYAN 2012 - Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.

    by Fordmandalay on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:05:52 PM PDT

  •  The Old Guard GOP Sucks and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    is probably trying to recover control of the old line party over the crackpot caucus of Tea Party nutgalls. It overlooks the way they've turned themselves into the crackpot's crackpot caucus.

    To the extent they've got any common sense, which I belittle in advance, they'd like to get to the point where if they're lucky, they control one house or both, if it's neither, they're screwed.

    Either way, they don't want the Teapot Crackpots dictating their future given that they have no concept of what the future is.

    Some the hand you feed comes back and bites you in the ass. In this case, they've been feeding a python in the Capitol cellar -- their problem being that it's them that are being fed to the snake.

    And no one group could so richly deserve it.

  •  Geronimo (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert, JeffW, OldDragon, Shippo1776

    The Cliff is the only way to break Grover's strangle hold on DC

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:12:52 PM PDT

  •  The photo is hilarious. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW

    Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction. Dennis Kucinich

    by keeplaughing on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:17:04 PM PDT

  •  Vote them out!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, OldDragon

    We need to get a majority there.  I know it is a slim shot.

  •  Scott Brown Tonight (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, OldDragon

    Reid didn't let him wuss out. He came out in favor of Roe v Wade and Lilly Ledbetter. Duh?

    Warren was very prescient. She framed the decision as a war for control of Senate, not how "cute" Brown is

    At that point, Brown had very few arguments to make.

  •  Two scariest words from the lips of a Republican: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JeffW

    Grand Bargain.

    Because stupid people are so sure they're smart, they often act smart, and sometimes even smart people are too stupid to recognize that the stupid people acting smart really ARE stupid.

    by ZedMont on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:19:31 PM PDT

  •  The GOP and 1929 Again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    Wait until the cuts start to really bite. The GOP is going  to punished as it was punish throughout  the 1930s and 40s.

  •  damn it, once again the Dems are pre-negotiating (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr Robert

    away their advantage. The catfood comissions final content was all "give" from the democrats and "take" by the GOP. So now democrats have got themselves in a position of using Simpson/Bowles as their 'starting point" which means the final product will be even worse as they negotiate farther to the right.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:21:26 PM PDT

  •  Campaign to end Corporate subsidies.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, Shippo1776

    by way of income tax breaks of all kinds. Go on the offensive by using the bully pulpit acutally campaigning for the people's right to have a public economy worth the name of capitalism.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:40:59 PM PDT

  •  I used to be an optimist. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925

    Now I understand that we have two parties that are completely entrenched: the party of traitors who serve the elite without question, and the traitors who tollerate them to share power.  I'm losing hope that this can be changed peacefully.

    Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

    by rhonan on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:55:08 PM PDT

  •  If Republicans thought this was popular they would (0+ / 0-)

    have done this before the election.

    But its NOT!

    "We don't need someone who can think. We need someone with enough digits to hold a pen." ~ Grover Norquist

    by Lefty Coaster on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 08:02:56 PM PDT

  •  Why all the fuss? (0+ / 0-)

    Rep. Boehner and the GOP got 98% of what they wanted.  The Republicans ought to be dancing in the streets.

  •  Predictions for the House... Ho ho ho! (0+ / 0-)

    I'm going to put on my fortune teller hat and make a wild prediction here...

    When Obama wins and the Senate stays in Democratic hands. I think we are going to see an end to the House "foaming at the mouth" over everything. If the Teabaggers don't see the writing on the bathroom wall. I know the GOP establishment does! They remember the fiasco that was Newt Gingrich and they don't want to repeat that.

    I think the mood in the House is going to change into more of a staid, let's get this crap done already type mentality. More work, less crazy. Of course, that doesn't mean we won't have crazy around! Just that the GOP handlers won't give it the time of day anymore because it's killed their brand this year.

    They are currently posturing for the upcoming election. But afterwards during the end of the year they will pass the "under 250K" tax cut in time for Christmas. And they won't hold it hostage with impossible austerity cuts which have fallen flat in the public's eyes. They have seen the very real possibility of being tossed out of Congress like Newt's bunch were. And they don't particularly like that idea.

    Obama's luck is going to change for the better with this more weakened Congress. Perhaps we can even see a Jobs Bill come to the floor within the first three months of the new term. They already have one written. It just needs to be voted on.

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 10:53:06 PM PDT

    •  Hope you're right, but Rs have proven themselves (0+ / 0-)

      resistant to (incapable of?) learning.  IMHO, if they retain the House--even by a single seat--they will see it as vindication.  My feeling is that you and POTUS need to understand that they will not compromise; wishes to the contrary should first review Charlie Brown, Lucy, and The Football.

      The only hope I see is to win the Congress outright and, shortly after Election Day, to hold rallies and campaign nationwide against Bowles-Simpson and for keeping SocSec/Medicare/Medicaid whole.

      We have to re-elect BO and keep him from the siren song of B-S he so strongly wants to do.

      "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

      by bartcopfan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:01:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh I don't see compromise..hehe (0+ / 0-)

        I think they will see the writing on the wall and stop obstructing all the time. The establishment GOP needs to stop pandering as it's utterly destroyed them as a party. If we take back enough of the House to make it harder for them to make a solid majority then they will be forced to accept that they need to come across the aisle from now on.

        I think this year put a bad taste in the GOPs mouth. One that they don't want to revisit in 2013. They tried to derail Obama's second term and it failed (or will fail). After that they will be resigned to finally accepting him as the President and move on. The country cannot continue to survive on four more years of Congressional obstruction.

        "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

        by Wynter on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:13:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think the Rs care.... (0+ / 0-)
          The country cannot continue to survive on four more years of Congressional obstruction.
          My prediction is for continued obstruction if they have a majority of any sort.  I guess we'll see how it plays out; my powers of prediction are imperfect...FWIW, I was wrong in my prediction that BO would be impeached within 6 months of the Republican'ts taking the House in 2010.

          "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

          by bartcopfan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 03:15:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My cracked crystal balls (0+ / 0-)

            Before the election, obstruction was a lever to damage Obama's chances of a second term.
            After the election, obstruction only damages the GOP brand which is already bottoming out. It's just not worth it for the establishment conservatives to back the tea party crazy talk after the election.

            FWIW, I was backing Hillary instead of Obama. And I was wrong then!

            "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

            by Wynter on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 05:53:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I backed Hillary, too. (0+ / 0-)
              FWIW, I was backing Hillary instead of Obama. And I was wrong then!
              And haven't regretted it for a minute.  I trusted her to know who she'd be dealing w/ on the R side.  The folks who'd impeached her husband and rifled through her underwear drawer just to show they could.  I trusted her to know she was dealing w/ people who actively wanted her failure--not her accomodation--and I don't consider that "wrong", just that we didn't pick the ultimate winning candidate.  Once BO got the nomination, I was his full-throated supporter.  

              I was a little surprised at the vibe I got during the 2008 primary campaign, as if that was the only chance to elect BO.  Hell, after 8 years of W, I wanted 8 years of Hillary, followed by 8 years of BO!  (Maybe we'll get that after all, just in reverse!?)

              "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

              by bartcopfan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 07:12:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  if only way to end tax breaks for billionaires (0+ / 0-)

    is to go over the fiscal cliff, then I say "Let's do it!"  We can deal with addressing some of the consequences later - with GOP votes supporting that.  But NOT reinstate the tax cuts to those making over $1Million annually.  If that is the choice the GOP is giving us, then let's go for it and get it done, the sooner the better.

  •  No Guarantees (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bartcopfan

    The problem I have with all these people is that there's no guarantee that they will stop cuts to Social Security and Medicare (which is not government spending) and make sure that military spending (which is government spending and is totally out of control) is reduced. Anything short of that is totally unacceptable.

    To get there they have to go off the "fiscal cliff". Otherwise, Republicans will never accept a suitable outcome.

    The President and his surrogate (Bill Clinton) both talked about compromise. I'm not interested in compromising with these people. They are on the wrong path and they have been taking us all off the fiscal cliff. I have no intention of going over with them by compromising with insanity.

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