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Republican candidate in the 2010 race for U.S. Senator from Connecticut Linda McMahon, former World Wrestling Entertainment CEO, makes a campaign stop outside a polling location in Norwalk, Connecticut August 10, 2010.    REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton
Linda McMahon
Republicans' true agendas seem come out when they're talking to tea partiers. First, we had Tommy Thompson telling a Wisconsin crowd he'd "do away with Medicare and Medicaid." Now it's Linda McMahon, who told Connecticut tea partiers that she wants to do away with Social Security.
Speaking before a group of Tea Party supporters in Waterford, Conn. on April 20, however, McMahon said she would consider making major changes to Social Security, from raising the retirement age to means-testing benefits. She also proposed introducing a "sunset provision"—the legislative term for putting an expiration date on a law unless it is renewed.
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Asked to clarify whether McMahon really meant what she said—sunset as in making the program go away—McMahon's staff gave a typical nonresponse: "Linda McMahon will never vote for a budget that cuts Social Security for seniors, and unlike Chris Murphy she would never have voted to cut Medicare by $716 billion." Because it's in Republicans' DNA to repeat the big lie about about Medicare.

But as to whether she really wants to end Social Security, radio silence.

Like Thompson, McMahon was telling her people, the tea partiers, what she really intends to do. And, like all Republicans, that's ending the entitlement programs.

Please send Chris Murphy $3 on ActBlue.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:11 AM PDT.

Also republished by Social Security Defenders, Nutmeg State Progressives, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lipstick Sunset (15+ / 0-)

    There's a lipstick sunset
    Smeared across the Waterford sky
    There's a bitter sweet perfume
    Hanging in the streets
    The Bullshit's running high

    Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

    by Keith930 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:19:22 AM PDT

    •  Got my old bongo drums out for this one. (3+ / 0-)

      Romney went to France instead of serving in our military, got rich chop-shopping US businesses and eliminating US jobs, off-shored his money in the Cayman Islands, and now tells us to "Believe in America."

      by judyms9 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:02:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Keith930- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thomask, jdmorg

      Your sig line is funny, but it's so true.

      Years ago, when I lived in Chicago, I yearned to escape for a about a week one winter.  I had a friend who lived in Oregon who invited me to come stay with her for a few days (she was at Reed College).  I couldn't believe it - I was colder there than in Chicago!  But at least I had escaped the screaming, cutting wind.  

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:33:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's the vid & text (start at 9m00s) (15+ / 0-)


    Question: Do you believe that Social Security and Medicare are in financial trouble, and if so, what would you do to strengthen them?

    McMahon: Well they clearly are in trouble. We know that they're not sustainable at their current rate. There are a lot of ways that we could look at strengthening Social Security. I do think that we're going to have to do it in a bipartisan way. There are suggestions on the table, you know, that range from raising the retirement age, you know, to other methods, to means testing, to other things. And I think that we're going to have to do that in a bipartisan fashion in Congress. We cannot continue doing things the way we are doing with Social Security. We're just simply going to be bankrupt.

    And I do believe that, that there are ways to look at, you know, what we're trying to do when we put Social Security in place? We didn't go back and review it. In other words, I believe in sunset provisions when we pass this kind of legislation, so that you take a look at it 10, 15 years down the road to make sure that it's still going to fund itself. Social Security will run out of money if we continue to do what we're doing, if we rob the trust fund, if we think that there's any money there -- there's not. But there are, there certainly are (inaudible) securities, banks, backed by the federal government.

    However, Medicare is again going to go bankrupt if we don't change it. There've been recommendations of block grants, of our seniors looking at choosing what kinds of plans that they want. But I can tell you one thing I would not do, I would not vote on any rule or law that would take away the benefits that our seniors have today or those that are approaching retirement age. Because they're there, they're counting on those benefits. We have to find another way to pay for it other than impacting our seniors today, and I would not vote for anything that would do that.

    •  Great way to strenghten Medicare:Medicare for ALL! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe, ColoTim, Calamity Jean

      If this plutocrat, Linda McMahon, is "so concerned" with "strengthening" Medicare...hey....there is a great solution that will take us a long way. Its called MEDICARE FOR ALL! If we allow (or even require) everyone to buy into Medicare and spread the risk pool  throughout the entire country among millions of young, healthy people; this will infuse all kinds of money into Medicare, rendering it solvent for decades at the least. In addition, we can also remove the cap on taxing incomes above $250,000.00 to help address the challenges that Medicare faces. These are obvious solutions.

      But I am sure that Ms McMahon would not support these most obvious policies as solutions because strengthening Medicare is not what she really wants.  What Linda McMahon and the entire right wing seek to do is first voucherize it and then eliminate Medicare down the road on the grounds that it is "socialism". They don't give a DAMN about "strengthening" Medicare or Social Security and everyone must be clearly notified about this. But these Republicans know that its not politically popular to come right out and "say" that so they use Orwellian language such as insisting that they want to "strengthen"and "save" Medicareby voucherizing it and privatizing Social Security........which are the first steps toward eliminating them under our noses while we don't notice......... until its too late.

      Mitt Romney's 47% comments simply blew the cover off of all the rest of the GOP who has been hostile toward these "entitlement" programs ever since their enactments. Its time to hang "The Mittster's" 47% comments around the necks of EVERY SINGLE Republican House and Senate candidate running for office because in truth...their agenda is EXACTLY the same as Mitt Romney's 47% comments stated behind closed doors to fellow plutocrats. They just know not to come out and SAY it. That's the only difference.

      If Not Us, Who,..... If Not Now, When?

      by VirginiaBlue on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 11:56:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, who'da thunk a (19+ / 0-)

    Republican plutocrat would say something like this?

    If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

    by Unit Zero on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:26:58 AM PDT

  •  I suggest that everyone who is against (13+ / 0-)

    social security should protest by refusing to cash any and all social security checks that they get sent . Then if the free market speaks loud enough , then we might need to fix up social security . Say like maybe 51% of checks going uncashed for a year ?

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:27:27 AM PDT

    •  Perfect solution. Sends a message, doesn't it? (4+ / 0-)

      Bet the Romney's will cash theirs because they're entitled.  If McMahon and her ilk turn it into a means tested welfare program, well, it will certainly be at the mercy of funding whims.  The goppers only want to fund the military and oil/gas subsidies.

      Romney went to France instead of serving in our military, got rich chop-shopping US businesses and eliminating US jobs, off-shored his money in the Cayman Islands, and now tells us to "Believe in America."

      by judyms9 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:06:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ARE the Romney's entitled? (6+ / 0-)

        How many quarters did Ann work?

        How many actual quarters did Mitt work and pay in? Wasn't most of his income in capital gains?

        My mother is 92. She never paid in (because she was a housewife/homemaker) and neither did my late father. Neither were/are eligible for SS. We weren't eligible for survivor's benefits either -- Daddy was a nearly lifelong federal government employee and only paid in to the Social Security system for a few years early in his work years. That was not enough to draw benefits.

        You have to work for wages and pay in to earn eligibility for these programs. They don't just hand it to you. I don't think either Romney would qualify. For sure, Ann wouldn't qualify on her own.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:26:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes my dad worked for federal government and (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brooke In Seattle, Sue B, pademocrat

          therefore, at age 55, he retired from his federal job to go work for a state university for 10 year to qualify for some social security and Mom had to go back to work after years after being a housewife, to work a decade or so to qualify.

          As they watched many of their friends not qualify for social security.

          Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

          by wishingwell on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:30:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wishingwell. Did he have a retirement pension (0+ / 0-)

            from his Federal job?

            •  Yes he worked for the USPS and had retirement (0+ / 0-)

              check coming and at the time of his death at age 74, he and Mom had small social security checks. But most of their retirement income was from the USPS and their IRA accounts. Actually I thought they put too much into IRA, the bulks of their assets at the time of their death was their house that was paid off and their IRA accounts. And wow, the state taxed us heavily on those IRA accounts as heirs.

              Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

              by wishingwell on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 06:00:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Difficult to do, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl, Calamity Jean

      since SS doesn't send out many checks anymore - everything is done through direct deposit.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:40:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Because we don't have enough (22+ / 0-)

    homeless and starving elderly.

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:29:59 AM PDT

  •  Linda....whatever you do...don't stick forks into (11+ / 0-)

    wall sockets.

  •  Does Linda (12+ / 0-)

    Knw what the Demographics are in CT.  There is a large older population in this state.

    Game Over!

    Hopefully even Chris Murphy's ineptly run campaign will put an ad up with her in person saying this.

  •  right Linda, abandon your elders at the dog track (7+ / 0-)
    DICKSON, Tenn.1992 - A woman believes an Alzheimer's patient abandoned at an Idaho dog-racing track is her long-lost father and she's hoping for a family reunion soon.

    "I'm happy to know that he's alive," Nancy Myatt said yesterday "I've still got a father."

    Myatt, 55, said her parents divorced when she was about 10. Her father remarried in 1964, she said, and "my daddy just slipped away from us."

    Her mother died six years ago and the family couldn't find their father to inform him. "We assumed he was dead," Myatt said.

    Then, Myatt said, she recognized her father in photographs accompanying news accounts about John Kingery, 82. He was found last Saturday at Coeur d'Alene Greyhound Park with a bag of diapers and wearing a blue cap with the logo "Proud to be an American."

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:52:27 AM PDT

    •  I remember this story (0+ / 0-)

      and how outraged I was that such a thing was allowed to happen.  I never learned what was done, if anything, to the people responsible for abandoning the man at the track.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:43:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, SHE'LL never need Social Security (12+ / 0-)

    She's a rich bitch!

    I view her with the same contempt with which I view conservative women who have abortions "because of the stigma" of unwed motherhood, and who then work to make sure other women can't have abortions.

    Dirtbags all.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 08:56:52 AM PDT

    •  SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Affordable Health Care... (3+ / 0-)

      These of course, are all things that 99% of the in-ring talent in the WWE (past and present) either need now or will need in the future and of course, the kind of thing she and her husband (a good friend of Donald Trump) are against.  

      Let them eat Turnbuckles.

      Message to Dems: We HAVE to start showing up for Midterms.

      by Jank2112 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:26:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  McMahon's ads are effective (7+ / 0-)

    I live in LA but watch the east coast feed of NBC and the ad trying to show Murphy as irresponsible was effective.  We must win this seat.  Work hard!!!

  •  "for seniors" (12+ / 0-)

    She'd never vote to cut social security "for seniors", but for people who are not seniors yet...sure.  

    Gotta love the linguistics.  She didn't even have to have her fingers crossed.

  •  The only way to "sunset" Social Security (22+ / 0-)

    is to make people pay premiums for benefits they'll never receive. In other words, rob them.

    Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

    by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:02:57 AM PDT

  •  Linda McMahon, craven opportunist (11+ / 0-)

    I live in CT so every time I turn on my computer I see her ads attacking Chris Murphy, who is my congressman. I know him, I know he is a good guy and is working hard and doing a great job. Meanwhile when I went to watch the video of her talking about sunsetting Social Security I had to first watch an ad in which she attacked Chris Murphy. Please donate to help keep this evil opportunist out of Congress.

    •  You need to add Do Not Track Plus to your browser! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, annalivia

      It's a browser plug in that prevents ad companies from tracking you. If they can't track you then they can't target ads specifically to you. I live in CT too and thanks to the plug in I don't see any targeted ads for McMahon, or for anything else.

      Honesty compels me to say that while Murphy might be a nice guy, his campaign is pretty weak. They're allowing McMahon to roll out a new line of attack almost weekly and not responding fiercely and immediately. McMahon's ad tying Murphy's mortgage to his vote for the banking bail out struck me as pretty powerful, even if it was idiotic (Murphy should have voted for letting world financial markets collapse because he once got a mortgage?). As far as I know Murphy still hasn't countered that one. I haven't seen anything attacking McMahon over her own past financial problems.  

  •  A "Sunset" provision for Soc. Sec. (6+ / 0-)

    That's just sheer, unadulterated genius.

    She must have the same campaign consultants working for her as Scott Brown does.

    I can see that going over huge here in Connecticut.

    The tea party girl just can't help it.

    "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

    by jkay on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:06:51 AM PDT

  •  Actually, it's time to "sunset" (14+ / 0-)

    Linda McMahon's political career.

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:08:02 AM PDT

  •  Is 'means testing' anything like 'redistribution'? (4+ / 0-)

    You know, that evil socialist innovation Mitt tells us America has never done.

    Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

    by Clem Yeobright on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:08:59 AM PDT

  •  Oh, go sunset yourself, Linda. (4+ / 0-)


    "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous..........got me?" - Don Van Vliet

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:09:22 AM PDT

  •  considering the recent polling on (3+ / 0-)

    seniors attitudes towards tampering with SS and Medicare, the suns going to set on any politician pusing the idea.

    These guys all ran to the Tea Party for the primaries, and the videos are going to trap them, liars who can't be trusted not to change SS and Medicare, or honest politicians who really mean to do away with SS and Medicare.  Both are losing positions.

  •  What's with the RW crazies and Social Security? (5+ / 0-)

    The program ran a huge surplus from 1983 to 2010, and only slight adjustments in the payroll tax base can keep it in the black indefinitely. Yet Republicans can't wait to do away with it.
      The problem with Medicare is health costs overall. Doing away with Medicare would just make that problem worse.

    •  Hell, a robust economy is enough to keep (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle, Calamity Jean

      it in the black indefinitely.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:18:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "What's With the RW Crazies and Social Security"? (5+ / 0-)

      Consider this: 1. It's a successful government program and 2. It works to keep elderly people out of poverty and 3. Seniors love it. Those are things the right wing hates about SS, and considers "problems." Of course, everybody else in the US considers these things "beneficial" and are reasons why Americans love SS. Get it?

      •  SS drives up wages by reducing the need for (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sue B, VirginiaBlue, KenBee, Calamity Jean

        seniors to remain in the workforce.

        If you can replace your wages with SS income, you can drop out of the workforce. If you drop out of the workforce, the supply of labor drops. Employers have less leverage to pit workers against each other, and workers have more leverage to demand higher wages.

        And we know how Republican elites hate high wages. Conservative rank-and-file hate other people having high wages, because they view their jobs as trivial and workers other than themselves lazy and coddled. Said rank-and-file, of course, feel that they are not paid enough.

        Hell, if we wanted to improve the economy and the job picture, we'd increase FICA rates while simultaneously lowering the retirement age, until the retirement age reaches 55 or so.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:56:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Could we save Social Security by ending (0+ / 0-)

    all benefits to Congress?

    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

    by ZenTrainer on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:10:17 AM PDT

  •  Nutcase Cruz proposes to abolish Dept. of Ed. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybersaur

    http://www.dallasnews.com/...

    This is what passes for "policy proposals" by the Teabagger wing of the GOP here in Texas.

    AUSTIN — Texas GOP Senate nominee Ted Cruz dismissed Democratic foe Paul Sadler’s criticism Wednesday that Cruz’s proposal to abolish the U.S. Department of Education would jeopardize federal student loan programs for college students.

    “Student aid is critically important,” Cruz said. “In my life, education opened doors for my parents and for me that never would’ve been opened.”

    The Republican proposes that student aid funds should be wrested from the federal department’s control and sent to the states as block grants.

    “We should take the funding, give it to the states and put the states in the position to make the decisions how to have the greatest impact in their communities,” said Cruz, a former state solicitor general who upset Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst in the July 31 GOP runoff for the seat held by retiring U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison.

    Earlier Wednesday, Sadler said in a written statement that Cruz’s desire to abolish the federal department would endanger the student loan programs.

    “If we eliminate it, then we truly make college education unaffordable for a large segment of our population in every single county, every single city, every single town,” said Sadler, a former East Texas state legislator.

    So, why am I not surprised?  Cruz may well be in the U.S. senate next year.  This is not a "Texas problem" you can ignore.  It is an "all of us" problem.

    Send Sadler some love:

    http://www.sadlerforsenate.com/

    Or see Cruz in Washington DC for SIX years!

    Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

    by tom 47 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:10:34 AM PDT

  •  Young people need to get behind Social Security (4+ / 0-)

    and Medicare preservation.  Their wages will be flatlined or reduced by the wingers making it impossible to save for retirement.  Worse, many of them will have to extend their resources to keep their own parents out of the shelters, which the wingers consider "dignity in old age," the alternative to a senior housing center.

    Romney went to France instead of serving in our military, got rich chop-shopping US businesses and eliminating US jobs, off-shored his money in the Cayman Islands, and now tells us to "Believe in America."

    by judyms9 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:11:34 AM PDT

  •  time to sunset (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brooke In Seattle, cybersaur

    these tea-bagger GOP assholes.

    I'm a vegan for health reasons - the health of the animals.

    by jackandjill on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:13:44 AM PDT

  •  Apparently,... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brooke In Seattle

    ...teapartiers aren't planning on ever retiring.  

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:15:08 AM PDT

  •  $716 Billion from Medicare line (4+ / 0-)

    Democrats have mostly been ignoring the distortion that says "Obamacare stole $716 Billion out of Medicare," but they should take it more seriously.  It hurts with some less-informed voters.

    An appropriate response whenever the line is used would be, "My opponent is talking about the bill that closed the 'doughnut hole' which made seniors on Medicare pay up to $2,500 for their prescription medications.  Yes, I voted for that bill, and I am proud that I did.  I just can't understand why my opponent would not support it."

    •  My 78-year-old aunt and I had a discussion (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sue B, Calamity Jean

      about this one day.  She is a "shrink the size of government" and "the government shouldn't be subsidizing deadbeats" kind of Republican.

      I told her she was one of those people that the government subsidized, because she had a Medicare Advantage policy while I had regular Medicare.  I mentioned that although we paid the same amount for Medicare each month, she had more benefits than I did - eye care and hearing benefits - which I didn't have.  And the government was subsidizing her extra benefits by paying her PPO directly for them.  And I told her I thought it was unfair that she and I paid the same amount but she received more benefits because of the subsidy.

      She sputtered for a while, but she must have thought about it, because she no longer accuses President Obama of stealing money from Medicare in order to pay for Obamacare.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I was just perusing her wiki page-- (0+ / 0-)

    it looks like she and the hubby took advantage of
    food stamps for a while when they were young.

    What do you want to bet that she wouldn't mind
    disposing of that program, too?

  •  Off topic: MoveOn calling for Criminal.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...Investigation Into Mitt’s Lies About Time At Bain Capital

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/...

  •  BTW, that's a HUGE piece of lapis lazuli (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    she has around her neck.  Looks like a slice off an "egg" around two inches in diameter.

    Stuff is only found two places in the world: Afghanistan, and Chile.

    Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

    by tom 47 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:24:21 AM PDT

  •  New Paul Ryan quote: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KenBee, Calamity Jean

    “Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. Don’t feed fish.”

    Ben,Jerry&Cabbit

    Why does Paul Ryan want to kill my fish

  •  How is this race even close ? (4+ / 0-)

    I don't know much about Connecticut.

    I still don't understand why y'all reelected loser crybaby Joe Lieberman after he lost the D primary.

    I don't understand how someone who made her fortune from WWE wrestling can be taken seriously. Surely you must have some moderate Wall St Republicans who could mount a good race in aNnew England state.

    Is there something about Murphy that keeps him from having a huge lead.

    DemfromCT -- Are you out there? please explain.

    •  Re: electing Lieberman (0+ / 0-)

      I just wanted to respond regarding Lieberman's reelection in CT. After losing his primary he knew he didn't have the dem vote, and his GOP cronies abandoned their own candidate and backed him instead, as did the independents. He got 70% of the republican vote and over 50% of the independent vote.

      I wish he hadn't deprived me of voting against him this year.

  •  SS is not an entitlement (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, tle, Calamity Jean

    Rather a retirement plan that is paid for by taxpayers

    What needs to happen is Congress' paws need to be removed from it.

    "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

    by bcdelta on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:25:44 AM PDT

    •  It *is* an entitlement; most people just don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sue B

      know what "entitlement" means.

      An "entitlement" is a benefit which must be given to any eligible person. This is contrasted with a grant, award, competitively bid contract, and so on. The legislation that created Social Security calls it an entitlement.

      It's not a retirement plan, either. It's wage insurance. It works on a model of "your premiums in entitle you or a qualified beneficiary to benefits out, once qualifying criteria are met".

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:38:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We are Entitled (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Robobagpiper, bcdelta

        To it because we pay into it!

        •  A good slogan, but not the technical reason it's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bcdelta

          an entitlement in the legal sense.

          It's certainly why we're entitled to it in the moral sense!

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:46:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Right (0+ / 0-)

        But SS is something people pay into and therefore people that have paid into it expect money back even though I believe there is no legal obligation for the govt. to do so.

        And the reality is people do use and view it as retirement money.

        "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

        by bcdelta on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 12:21:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But there *is* a legal obligation for the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bcdelta

          government to pay benefits to all eligible parties. It's written into the law that establishes SS.

          That's precisely what "entitlement" means.

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 01:18:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Robo (0+ / 0-)

            Thx for your response.  I think your knowledge on the matter far exceeds my own.

            Entitlement has become a dirty word.  

            I do remember reading that legally, but not enforced, that there is no legal onus on the govt. to pay people though.

            Let me look it up - I may be wrong.

            I appreciate you're correcting me on the topic.

            "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

            by bcdelta on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 09:45:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Robo (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not a lawyer, but I just found the case that I was talking about.

            http://www.ssa.gov/...

            Flemming vs. Nestor - SCOTUS 1960.

            SCOTUS ruled that social security was not a contractual obligation like that of an annuity.

            Therefore, Congress can amend the program at will or even end it.

            So the way I read the Nestor case is no one has a legal right to SS.

            Cato wrote a piece on this as well.

            http://www.cato.org/...

            Many people believe that Social Security is an "earned right." That is, they think that because they have paid Social Security taxes, they are entitled to receive Social Security benefits. The government encourages that belief by referring to Social Security taxes as "contributions," as in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act. However, in the 1960 case of Fleming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that workers have no legally binding contractual rights to their Social Security benefits, and that those benefits can be cut or even eliminated at any time.
            Now morally and given that we pay into it I disagree that people should not get their payments, but legally this does not appear to be the case.

            Please let me know if I'm misreading this.

            Thanks.

            "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

            by bcdelta on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 10:06:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The fact that Congress can write a new law (0+ / 0-)

              doesn't change the fact that under current law, it is a legal obligation, sort of by definition.

              Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

              by Robobagpiper on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 10:43:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

                and I don't like the SCOTUS ruling one bit, but as it stands now outside of Congress' ability to change eligibility like age and they can also do away with it or as in Nestor's case deny specific persons from receiving SS.

                If you look at the SCOTUS ruling is it not a legal obligation under current law by definition or other.

                "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

                by bcdelta on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 11:15:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cut or eliminated by a new law. (0+ / 0-)

                  You're splitting an odd hair. Under current law, the government has a series of legal obligations to eligible persons. To change someone's eligibility, Congress must pass a new law (limited by Congressional prohibitions against bills of attainder), and the President must sign it.

                  But the fact that law is mutable by the same process by which it was written doesn't change that the law - at any given time - is a legal obligation. It's not a contractual obligation - but no one ever said it was. It is a statutory obligation.

                  And Cato might not be the best source; they're not an unbiased party on the matter.

                  Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

                  by Robobagpiper on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 11:26:03 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Constitutional prohibitions", that is. (0+ / 0-)

                    Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

                    by Robobagpiper on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 11:26:32 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  CATO (0+ / 0-)

                    Was just the first article that I saw.  The SSA web page says the same thing.

                    I agree that Congress would need to change the law if the age were to go up or rate changed, etc.

                    I'm not a lawyer so you're losing me on the difference between legal obligation vs. contractual or statutory.

                    The point I am trying to make and clearly not doing a good job of it is that many of us feel that we are guaranteed SS payments upon hitting the eligibility requirements - paid in + reach the age required by law.

                    $4.5 trillion or so of the debt is intra-governmental holdings - roughly $2.5 trillion is money owed SS and things like military/federal pension, health care funds, etc.

                    http://www.davemanuel.com/...

                    The $2.5 trillion owed SS has been spent as has the rest of the intra-governmental holdings.

                    I think beginning in 2013 and out the global economy is going to get very bad.  My comment here is not political rather there are economic problems everywhere.

                    Imagine in 2014- it's so bad Congress just kills SS entirely.  Politically difficult, but if they did they are within their legal rights given the SCOTUS 1960 ruling.

                    And the problem is people view SS as an annuity, pension, etc. and it's clearly not.

                    "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

                    by bcdelta on Fri Sep 28, 2012 at 11:55:56 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  In this case, perception trumps reality. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bcdelta

        You argue that it's an entitlement, but IMO the problem is that the Roveians have succeeded in making "entitlement" a dirty word.  When I saw the word "entitlement" in the diary, I thought, "You're damned right I'm entitled!  I paid into Social Security my entire working life!  Taking it away now is outright thievery.".  But the pseudo-definition that's imbedded in the moran media now is that "entitlement" means money being showered on worthless slackers (Rich worthless slackers don't count).  The technical definition you present is (I think) correct, but not particularly useful.

        I would just say that Social Security is not the version of entitlement as defined by arrogant and hateful politicians and pundits.  Not sure where I'd go from there.

        I am become Man, the destroyer of worlds

        by tle on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 12:25:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not my argument. It's a fact. It's in the (0+ / 0-)

          original Social Security Act.

          That the term has additional meanings (many with negative connotations) does not make one of us correct when we say something like "it's not an entitlement".

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 01:19:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Remember SS was designed to fight poverty. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, Calamity Jean

    Now that poverty is a thing of the past, it has outlived its usefulness.  I mean, the seniors McMahon knows are all very well off, and their SS is a small fraction of their income.  Likewise the widows, orphans, and disabled people, at least, if she knew any, they would probably be comfortably well off too.

    Right?

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:39:10 AM PDT

  •  Just "Linda"? No last name? (0+ / 0-)

    Can't believe that campaign logo. She plan to begin a pop singing career after she gets booted out of her elected position?

  •  Linda McMahon probably owns stock... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VirginiaBlue, tle, Calamity Jean

    ...in a cat food company, and stands to make millions by destroying Social Security, and driving America's Seniors to a predominantly Purina diet.

  •  To Linda the thing wrong with Social Security, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VirginiaBlue, KenBee

    public schools, Medicare, Public utilities, prisons, etc. is there is no profit for the filthy rich in them.  Privatize is code for Profitize.  Think Ebanezer Scrooge and Simon Lagree in charge of everything.  Public programs like Social Security and Single Payer Health Care are ways we can avoid multiple CEOs with Yachts.

    Never promote men who seek after a state-established religion; it is spiritual tyranny--the worst of despotism. It is turnpiking the way to heaven by human law, in order to establish ministerial gates to collect toll. John Leland

    by J Edward on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:54:25 AM PDT

  •  She has spent a fortune (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, KenBee

    trying to buy her way into the Senate. Would be great if CT voters get sick of her before the election like with Meg Whitman.

  •  The Republicans just don't get it. They took (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scribeboy, Calamity Jean

    any minimal amount of equity and stability away with what their bankers and tax cheats have done to the housing and financial markets.  Americans lost our jobs, our homes, our credit, our health insurance, our ability to send our kids to college.  Now they want to take away the 1 bit of security that we may have left.  SS & Medicare are insurance programs that we fucking PAID  for ALL OF OUR LIVES.  What makes these fools think people are gonna vote for that now?

    Republicans only care about themselves, their money, & their power.

    by jdmorg on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05:02 AM PDT

  •  I was considering comparing... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    the Tea Party with Ferengi until I realized that Ferengi have a higher moral code.

    How does one achieve nirvana? Lower your expectations. Problem solved. Crisis averted.

    by darlalalala on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:06:56 AM PDT

  •  Dragnet closing theme: (0+ / 0-)

    Done, done-done,done.
    Done, done-done, done, doooone.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:33:08 AM PDT

  •  Why is she throwing the race? (0+ / 0-)

    Oh.
    Pro-wrestling...
    Never mind.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:34:54 AM PDT

  •  entitlement programs (0+ / 0-)

    whose playbook are you reading joan. i just started receiving ss benefits in may at the age of 62 after paying for them since i  was 14 and have the ss records to prove it.
    of course i am not "entitled to medicare yet", but i am "entitled to va health care" which of course in your view are just another way for me to live off the government as if i am entitled.  please watch your language, words have meanings.
    write it down hundreds of times joan, "earned benefits" let it sink in and watch your language because i know you are standing up for us.

    ...sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport,whereas Virtue, if a pauper is stopped at all frontiers. from The Sermon, Moby Dick

    by jts327 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:43:36 AM PDT

  •  I've got a sunset for ya Linda.. (0+ / 0-)

    A Sunset Flip Powerbomb that is..

  •  Alerted Murphy campaign (0+ / 0-)

    We have been Chris fans since he got elected to state house though we do not live in his district. I called campaign headquarters as soon as I read this, told them they need to run ads with her comments and use this to destroy her in tonight's debate.  Hope my message gets through, the staffer who answered phone sounded awfully young (too young to worry about SS?) but immediately looked up the story

  •  I'm kind of disappointed (0+ / 0-)

    that even the people who know better keep calling Social Security an entitlement program.

    It's not. Its a retirement program. You pay into it all your working life and you use it when you retire. If you don't pay into it, you don't get it.

    If we could torpedo the "entitlement" meme, that would probably take care of the issue.

    Keep moving. Its harder to hit a moving target.

    by KatGirl on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 11:56:32 AM PDT

  •  "enitlement programs" (0+ / 0-)

    I would suggest referring to them as "hard-won social insurance programs." Because that's what they are.

    Although having won them through political struggle and tax payments, we are also entitled to them.

  •  McMahon Is Dangerous (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VirginiaBlue

    I live in CT and I can tell you she has a good shot of winning this thing. To me, the Chris Murphy Campaign is MIA - I never hear of  any Chris Murphy rallies or appearances or see any on TV. And his TV ads are aweful and uninspiring. I can also tell you that just going by word of mouth, people are around here falling for McMahon - They Like Her.
    But regardless of who wins, there is a real shot that Social Security and Medicare will go bye bye. In fact, I just posted and article on Huffpo where I discuss our obligation to take back the Dem Party after the election or else, we may be toast. The things we stood for for so long are in danger even if the President wins and the Dems hold the Senate.

     Here is the link to that - Don't know if it's allow but here it is http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

  •  keep talking linda (0+ / 0-)

    and in case you need a shovel i have an extra one handy.

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