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U.S. President George W. Bush and Republican gubernatorial candidate..for Massachusetts Mitt Romney pass one another on stage during a fund..raising event for Romney in Boston October 4, 2002. Romney, the former..Salt Lake Olympic chief, is in a tough rac
One is an idiot. The other is a liar. But they both have the same policies.
Last night, Mitt Romney lied so much it is hard to know where to begin. I'll stick to his lies about his tax proposals. Romney said:
I don’t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don’t have a tax cut of a scale that you’re talking about.
A bald-faced lie. The non-partisan and respected Tax Policy Center (PDF) has calculated the cost of Romney's tax cut proposal—yep, $5 trillion.

Romney said, "I’ve said is I won’t put in place a tax cut that adds to the deficit." So where is the money going to come from to pay for Romney's $5 trillion tax cut? Romney said:

I want to bring down the rates down, at the same time lower deductions and exemptions and credits and so forth so we keep getting the revenue we need.
But there are not enough "deductions and exemptions" available for cutting to make up for the $5 trillion tax cuts Romney is proposing. Unless, of course, you are going to raise taxes on most Americans. So Romney is either lying about not increasing the deficit or he is lying about not raising taxes on ordinary Americans. Again, the the respected non-partisan Tax Policy Center explained (PDF):
[I]f tax expenditures were completely eliminated for households above $200,000 and reduced across-the-board by 58 percent for taxpayers below $200,000 then taxpayers with children who make less than $200,000 would pay, on average, $2,000 more in taxes [under the Romney plan.]
Romney is lying. As President Obama said:
[T]he fact is that if you are lowering the rates the way you [Romney] describe, Governor, then it is not possible to come up with enough deductions and loopholes that only affect high-income individuals to avoid either raising the deficit or burdening the middle class. It’s -- it’s math. It’s arithmetic.
But arithmetic has a liberal bias. Unskew the math!

Romney also lied about not giving huge record breaking tax cuts for the rich. Romney said, "I’m not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people." Bzzzt! Caught in a lie again. The Tax Policy Center calculated that under the Romney plan, even assuming elimination of all deductions and exemptions, under the Romney tax plan, the top 0.1 percent would see an average tax cut of $246,652. Now that may seem like nothing to a man of Romney's immense wealth, but in the world the rest of us inhabit, that is a huge tax cut.

Finally, Romney said, "[M]y plan is not like anything that’s been tried before." Uh, what? It's exactly what George W. Bush DID before, only worse. As Derek Thompson explained, the Romney tax plan is the Bush tax plan on steroids. And it is not just tax policy. Ezra Klein deftly explained that everything Mitt Romney is proposing has been tried before, by George W. Bush, and failed:

Lower taxes, fewer regulations, more domestic energy production, promises of deficit reduction that are quickly overwhelmed by increased defense spending and reduced tax revenues, and glossy rhetoric about economic freedom pretty much defined the Bush administration’s economic policy. And how did that economic policy work out? It was a disaster.
George W. Bush was an idiot. Mitt Romney is a bald-faced liar. About everything. It's that simple. And his lying is a tactic to take the country back to the disastrous policies of the worst president of the last hundred years, George W. Bush. For all the flak the president has received for his debate performance last night, his answer on this was absolutely correct:
I think math, common sense and our history shows us that’s not a recipe for job growth. Look, we’ve tried this -- we’ve tried both approaches. The approach that Governor Romney’s talking about is the same sales pitch that was made in 2001 and 2003. And we ended up with the slowest job growth in 50 years. We ended up moving from surplus to deficits. And it all culminated in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Bill Clinton tried the approach that I’m talking about. We created 23 million new jobs. We went from deficit to surplus, and businesses did very well.
That's why Mitt Romney is lying. He is trying to sell the failed Republican policies of George W. Bush against the successful Democratic policies of Bill Clinton. If he told the truth, he'd be run out of the country on a rail.

The country needs to know the truth about Mitt Romney—he is a liar who is trying to take us back to the policies of George W. Bush. The country can not afford Mitt Romney's lies.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Ugh. (12+ / 0-)

    I wonder how many folks Romney, Inc. is hoping stay home due to disillusionment about the lies they're constantly throwing.

    I won't be one of 'em, though. Getting my absentee application out today.

    "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

    by progressivist on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:46:46 AM PDT

    •  The First Debate: Mitt Romney's Five Biggest Lies (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sillycilla, KayCeSF, kaliope

      from Rolling Stone:
      http://www.rollingstone.com/...

      The Republicans might think that Romney looked strong in his debate, and he did look strong...on flip-flopping and not telling the truth.
      I didn't watch the debate because I know how clowns like Romney will act in these matters so I was fully expecting Romney to be blowing a lot of hot air like his hero Rush.
      So when I got up today to get ready to go to work, I read around and found out exactly what I knew Romney would do.
      Lie and then lie some more. The Big Lie, Goebbels.

  •  Ryan is a liar. Romney is a liar. (9+ / 0-)

    What a pair.

    “No, Mitt, corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they love, they cry, they dance, they live and they die. Learn the difference.”-- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:48:09 AM PDT

  •  Romney's new Plan: (12+ / 0-)

    "I promise to leave everything exactly as it is now under President Obama, except I'm white."

    Still enjoying my stimulus package.

    by Kevvboy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:48:23 AM PDT

  •  Lord of the Lies (7+ / 0-)

    Photobucket


    No one elected Grover Norquist anything. If everyone ignored him, he would dry up and blow away.

    by vahana on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:51:06 AM PDT

  •  New map at RCP (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou, speak2me, Pinto Pony, lgmcp, wishingwell

    Things keep getting better for Obama.

    Check out the recent updates.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/...

    "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

    by greendem on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:51:07 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, but if you are going to lie, go big. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    feloneouscat

    Tell it often enough, and with enough conviction, and you, too, can be President.  Throw in a few stats, too, while you are at it.  

    Matt Taibbi wrote about this in the Great Derangement.  He said that we expect our Presidents to be liars, but we demand of them that they be exceptional liars.  

    Mittens, it will be seen, is not an exceptional liar.  

    He only employs his passion who can make no use of his reason. - Cicero

    by SpamNunn on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:52:05 AM PDT

  •  Obama won the debate on paper (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fou, feloneouscat, Matt Z

    If you just read a transcript of the debate (such as the excerpts you quote above), Obama consistently made logical, reasonable, persuasive arguments.

    Romney, on the other hand, was all over the place (not to mention the fact the he constantly lied).

    But their demeanor -- particularly Obama's refusal to look at Romney for much of the debate -- gave Romney the win.  He had more energy and more fight.

    •  But I don't think this was about winning (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      It was sussing out and defining Romney who, to be honest, has been everything to everyone. Now he has made absolutes and he will be forced to campaign on them.

      Hon, Mr. Eastwood borrowed our chair again...

      by feloneouscat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:02:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Forced HOW exactly? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alden

        By Youtubes mocking him for etch-a-sketchery and showing him contradicting himself?  We already have those a-plenty and it hasn't forced him to stick to any absolutes YET.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:06:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. He telegraphed all week he would lie in (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp, Alden

          the debates because he accused Obama of lying. Obama should have had a Kennedy line ready - “you are more democrat than me, I would vote for you - until you change your mind tomorrow” - anything would have helped.

    •  Obama was also (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, wishingwell, Matt Z, RebeccaG

      flattering, handsome, well-spoken, brave, humble, loyal, compassionate, at times good humored, trustworthy, and he smelled great.

      Romney was none of those things, and his tie reeked of Republican.

  •  Most excellent post (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tb mare, mattinjersey, doroma, RebeccaG

    It is unfortunate that it appears from feedback at this site that Obama has doomed his second term and we all might as well move to East Timor.  Personally, I've already started learning Portuguese and Tetum just to play it safe.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:52:18 AM PDT

    •  Overreaction bias (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, gchaucer2

      The more freaked out you are, the more imperative it becomes that you freak out.

      It's like when my wife was facing spinal surgery- she started doing research online and came across nothing but horror stories. She was terrified.

      I had to point out to her that the folks who had good experiences weren't posting about their surgeries- they'd moved on and were off riding horses and such.

      Right now only the junkies are posting, because we post every day. And some of us are freaking out, because it's what we do. Normal people don't do that. They also don't post every day.

  •  My tax cut is just the right height! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ozsea1
  •  And, what about this? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aythem, lgmcp, tejassaluki, greengemini

    Romney promises that there will be no net tax cut for the wealthy, because of ending deductions and loopholes, to offset the reduction in rates.

    OK, fine, so let's take him at his word.  Not tax cuts for the wealthy.

    But the center piece of his economic plan is to stimulate the economy with tax cuts for "the job creators" who he clearly  equates to the very wealthy.

    So... so.... um....   WTF?

  •  LIES. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    It's all he's got.  I don't know if it's all he ever had, but it's certainly all he's got now.

    Aldus Shrugged : The Antidote to Ayn Rand. Buy ALDUS SHRUGGED on amazon, and ALL royalties will be donated directly to barackobama.com HELP ME TO HELP THE BIG O!!! And follow the fun: @floydbluealdus1

    by Floyd Blue on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:54:18 AM PDT

  •  It's clear what Romney meant (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini

    by denying that his tax cut plan cuts tax revenues by $5 trillion. He plans to make up for the loss incurred by cutting taxes (mostly for the rich) by effectively raising taxes on everyone else, both directly and through the elimination of deductions, exemptions and credits--what's disengenously referred to by the Very Serious People as "broadening the base" (and which Dems must stop using!).

    I.e. he intends to make taxation flat or even regressive again.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:55:26 AM PDT

    •  There's also the magic asterisk (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tejassaluki

      where your awesome Laffer curve floats all boats so you don't have to live within the same means.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:08:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  this^^^^ (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie

      And, the entire small business pays at personal rates is true for the passthrough entities, BUT, now the income is on the personal return and if you lower the rates WHILE eliminating deductions, credits and exemptions, NOTHING CHANGES or in fact, depending upon where your net business income is, without say:

      Mortgage Interest Deduction
      Tuition Credits
      Personal Exemption
      SE Health Insurance (employer paid insurance will NOW be taxable)

      your taxes could most certainly go up.  

      If your small business generates enough to put your personal income outside of the tuition credits, you wouldn't get those anyway, but the other things would certainly hurt.

      In addition, what a WONDERFUL way to bring the housing market to a complete HALT!

      •  What he means by "broadening the base" (0+ / 0-)

        One would have to be an idiot to not parse it that way. He wants to invert the tax pyramid, or at least make it more like a trapezoid just barely wider at its top than at its bottom. He wants a nearly free ride for rich people and to have everyone else make up the difference. I don't even think it's just because he's a greedy bastard. I think he truly does believe in the cult of Randianism.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 01:34:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yet after the Obama quotes you cited (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, Matt Z

    ...somehow people and pundits alike are still saying Romney "won" the debate.

    What is wrong with that picture?

    No, scratch that -- what is wrong with that AUDIENCE?

    ------
    Ideology is when you give the answers before you know the questions.
    It is what grows into empty spaces where intelligence has died.

    by Alden on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:55:30 AM PDT

  •  Today Gallup (4+ / 0-)

    49-45  Obama
    Obama approval at 54!

  •  Romney was lying to the millions of Americans (0+ / 0-)

    who haven't paid attention until now and this is their first impression of him...a moderate reasonable person who isn't bending to the will of extremists within his own party.  And he knows those people won't pay attention to him walking everything he said back in the coming days.  They're all back to watching the King of Queens.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:56:26 AM PDT

  •  Obama set up a theme last night (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Talking about a lack of specifics.  He just needs to hammer that home over and over again.  Bring in his lack of specifics, tie it into his lack of transparency over his own taxes while demanding income tax information of over 10 years from his VP.  Then take that whole idea of hypocrisy and blend it with romney saying that he discounts the 47% behind closed doors while saying he is for everyone while in public.

    Then close off by saying that Mitt Romney is probably the only politician who holds effectively opposite views on every issue at the same time and challenge the viewer to find one issue that Romney has remained consistent on.

    People say that your dreams are the only things that save ya- Rebellion (lies), Arcade Fire

    by HIsoldier on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:57:31 AM PDT

  •  Joe is up next (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    he can get angry and mop the floor with Ryan. Little thug.

  •  Ever Seen Kristen Wiig's Gilly on SNL? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Whenever she tells a lie she has that same sh1te@ting grin on her face that Romney has in this picture. I wonder if she used him as a model.

    "The Trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." attributed to Lily Tomlin

    by uniqity on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 11:58:48 AM PDT

  •  One stat I didn't understand... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    When Romney said that the 3% of small business people who would be taxed, employ 54% of the people who work in small businesses. Huh?  I just don't get those numbers.
    Did I miss something?

    •  I would also like to know (0+ / 0-)

      Anybody has the answer? Does not seem to make sense, if that was teh case, it seems to me these 3% would employ an awful lot of people and woul dnot exactly be small. But I do not really know. I heard it last night, and then expected Obama to react. he did not :-(.

      •  The three percent comes from (0+ / 0-)

        a report of the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, which analyzed President Obama's proposed FY 2011 budget and estimated that three percent of all taxpayers with net positive business income (or just under 750,000 of these taxpayers) would have marginal tax rates of 36 or 39.6 percent (i.e., the Clinton era rates) under the proposed budget.

        The report notes that many of these entities are actually S corporations that might not be considered "small" in that they had receipts of more than $50 million.

        Joint Committee on Taxation report, page 10

        Nowhere, however, does the report indicate that these businesses employ 54% of the people who work in small businesses.

        I can only guess that Romney pulled that figure from an Outofmyass Institute report.

        2012 GOP Platform: "I Got Mine, Jack."

        by Yankee Patriot on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 01:16:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Depends on how small "small" is... (0+ / 0-)

      Nor did he explain it. Which leads me to believe it is a bullshit number.

      Hon, Mr. Eastwood borrowed our chair again...

      by feloneouscat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:15:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rule of Thumb - Whatever he says is bullshit (0+ / 0-)

      He was probably trying to make a point and exaggerating

      Using US Census data about 10% of small businesses employ about 64% of small business employees.

      A small business is defined as under 500 employees.

      "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

      by leftreborn on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:27:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks everyone (0+ / 0-)

        For weighing in on the absurd 3% employing 54%.  When I saw Yankee Patriot reference "S corporations" I figured that's what Romney was talking about.  Some of the largest companies in the US are S corporations and therefore considered small businesses. Here are some examples:
         Enterprise Products Partners, L.P., a pipeline company with 2009 revenues of $25 billion.

        Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., a Wall Street firm with $445 million in revenue in 2009.

        Price Waterhouse Coopers, an accounting firm with $26 billion in revenue in 2009.

        Koch Industries, a conglomerate of partnerships with 70,000 employees.

        • The Hillman Company, an investment founded by billionaire philanthropist/industrialist Henry Hillman.

        • Venn Strategies, Inc., whose chief operating officer is Brian Reardon, a former special assistant to former President George W. Bush.

        • Ferrellgas, a propane and propane accessories business, with $2 billion in revenues in 2009 and 1 million customers.

        • CoorsTek, a ceramics manufacturer founded by Adolph Coors, with 2009 revenue of $549 million.

        • Dead River Co., with $500 million in revenue and 1,200 employees.

        • McIlhenney Co., the Tabasco maker, with $250 million in revenue in 2007.

        Interesting that our old friends the Koch Brothers are on the list, too.  
        So c'mon, these poor modest small businesses need relief,  UGH!

  •  The fact that no one knows even now what exactly (7+ / 0-)

    Romney has up his sleeve for taxes should have millions screaming bloody murder from the rooftops.   The media is complicit and gives him a pass.  And too many people are unable to think for themselves and don't understand financial matters anyway.  

    The situation is perfect for a looter to take full advantage. We've got a contingent on a so-called Democratic website griping because the debate didn't descend to the gutter level they were craving and they blame the Democratic candidate who behaved with dignity, integrity and decorum when they should channel their anger at the subversive liar who has an unknown agenda.  

    The President questioned Romney repeatedly at the outset of the debate and Romney has been asked how his tax cuts will be funded since April, at least.  We have never had a presidential candidate from a major party who ran on secret policies. We've seen enough of Romney to know that it's a waste of time to even listen to him because everything he says is a lie.  He says whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear and it's clear that he fronts for the privileged few and the rest of us can go fly a kite if he manages to get himself elected.

    "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

    by leftreborn on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:01:17 PM PDT

  •  It's What He Does (5+ / 0-)

    I made this point during the Republican Primary. Romney repeatedly will lie in debate settings and become beyond incredulous at anyone attempting to challenge him. Even if Obama had gone after him for making bald-faced lies, Romney would've scolded the hell out of the President and the media would have done nothing to follow-up on Romney's obfuscations. This strategy made for great optics against Gingrich and Santorum, and was pivotal in his success in winning the Florida, Michigan, and Ohio primaries.  

    The reason he does it is because there has been very little political cost, or blowback, from the media. We've documented here the perpetual false equivalency by the fact-checkers, and Romney is counting on it to continue.

  •  I actually had to turn off the debate 10 mins in (4+ / 0-)

    because I was getting so incensed I was afraid I'd run off the road.   Listening to Mitt chortle wil glee while denying that his tax plan would ever in any way shape or form favor the rich, was making me lose it.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:03:29 PM PDT

  •  Can we officially say 'Lie' yet? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, wishingwell, Nautical Knots, Alden

    Maybe that could be our silver lining.

    You can make a lovely hat out of previously-used aluminum foil.

    by reddbierd on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:03:54 PM PDT

  •  we can keep saying liar till we're blue (0+ / 0-)

    in the face. The problem is will anyone even listen to us? Obama had the chance in front of millions of people to point it out and didn't .

    Romney still came out the winner.. I only hope it didn't hurt us too bad.

    "I'm not mad at them (tea party) for being loud, I'm mad at us for being silent for the last two years. Where have we been"? "it was never yes HE can, it was Yes WE can". - Van Jones

    by sillycilla on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:04:27 PM PDT

    •  well... they (O) are already up (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      with an ad about this in the swing states

      Obama campaign’s response to the new mendacious Mitt: Facts http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      I agree, millions were watching last night.... OTOH, much as I dislike the idea, most of these millions do NOT count, only the much smaller number in the famous states that make upi their mind at the last moment. And they will see this ad. And I am sure many more. What can I say... lemonade...

  •  How is Romney arguing that he's not cutting (0+ / 0-)

    taxes, a win for Romney?  

    Could have cut this off at the knees without all the policy gobbledygook - so you don't want to cut taxes?

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:04:41 PM PDT

  •  Romney is arguing he's not going to cut taxes? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:05:14 PM PDT

  •  He is a liar (4+ / 0-)
    Last night's Debate:

        Mitt Romney: "I'm not going to cut taxes for people with high income.'

    CNN ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE February 22, 2012
       Mitt Romney: There were so many misrepresentations there, it's going to take me a little while. Number one, I said today that we're going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20 percent, including the top 1 percent.
    He is a straight up LIAR!

    “Mitt Romney is the only person in America who looked at the way this Congress is behaving and said, ‘I want the brains behind THAT operation.’ ” Former Democratic Congressman - Tom Perriello "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - MHP

    by justmy2 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:06:05 PM PDT

  •  Like I thought, the debate changed nothing... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, a2nite

    Intrade before the debate had President Obama at about 70% chance of winning... right now, 69%.

    "Really nice, but also very serious about his job." Jackie Evancho on President Obama 6/7/12

    by BarackStarObama on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:06:17 PM PDT

  •  To be honest (0+ / 0-)

    I couldn't really tell who was the Republican...

    Did a small-government, fiscally conservative candidate present himself last night?

    This was a theatrical event where a big government, busy body, civil liberty hating, heavy spending warmonger debated himself.

    Strange, cause I've heard so much about a "distinct choice" and "stark differences."

    Oh well...

  •  Romney seriously won't be thrilled until (0+ / 0-)

    he drags the country down into a depression.  That's what his tax plan spells out to me.  He has not intention for making things more palatable for the middle and working class.  And if you are part of the 47 percent on skid row?  Those in poverty will truly suffer at the hands of a President Romney.

    The bankers and the corporate CEO's will do nothing but get richer while the rest of us will be out of our homes and in the streets.

    But don't worry, Mitt and his family will continue to be A-okay while not giving one good damn about the rest of us.  They will be still flush with cash from the efforts of outsourcing.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

    by politicalceci on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:11:21 PM PDT

  •  Get of the cliff and calm down everybody (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alden

    This is a long way from over. This fact was handed to us hard last night. At times, we've been too giddy about polls and what not. However, we needed this slap in our faces to see that we're playing with people who shift shape in whatever circumstances they need to.

    All this fact checking is fine and will take the shine off Romney's win a bit. However, it was the President job to debate and counter those facts. It was his job to stand up to him and call him out on his statements. The President did a lot of that but wasn't shining in doing it. It was a badly played prevent defense strayegy that hurt him in the end. If the President still wants the job, he alone needs to be strong and fight for it. It like Clinton and his vision thing. You knew Bill not only wanted the job, it looked as if he was offended that somebody wanted to take it away from him. Obama needs a lot more of that than just winging it and hoping Romney implodes.

    We have about a month to go. Romney only won one debate and even that is now being questioned. After last night, I hope this helps us all get focused and willing to work harder. This isn't going to be a cakewalk.

     It's time to stop singing and come out swinging. But the President needs to swing the hardest.

  •  The gish gallop (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    http://rationalwiki.org/...

    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Bull Shit.

    You can't take the sky from me!

    by wrights on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:14:25 PM PDT

  •  If only there was some venue where the lies could (0+ / 0-)

    be challenged. I don't know, something where the two were in the same room speaking where hundreds of reporters where. And where tens of millions of people were watching and listening. That would be cool if such a thing existed and the president would take advantage of it to call out the lies and the challenger in real time instead of days later.

    Maybe something like that will be around some day

  •  In fairness it should be pointed out that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nautical Knots

    he told a little bit of the truth about his plan.   The goal is to bring rates down for businesses, the top %2 of the "small" businesses that employ half of the country or something like that (he started talking very quickly and it was hard to follow.)

    So he doesn't want to lower the amount of taxes that individuals pay but wants to lower the rates on businesses so that they have more money.   He gets rid of personal deductions, or maybe not quite all of them (talking fast again).

    Since it is to be revenue neutral, it means that you, me, and all the rest of us pay for these tax cuts to "small businesses."

  •  Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    My Name Isnt Earl

    The President got Romney to say "Voucher"
    also got him to say how lucky the seniors will be to be able to get more than one Insurance policy to cover them (Seniors just love all that paper work!).
    Got him to say taxes will NOT go up for the 1%. And as a bonus...got him to say how wonderful Obamacare is.

    That is all I need, frankly...hung by his own petard.

    As an aside, what is it with this ACA is great for Massachusetts, but not for the rest of us? what are we chopped liver? It's like MA must survive no matter what occurs. Really? why are they so special??

  •  This was a good response from Obama (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    My Name Isnt Earl

    Despite all the criticicism, this was one area where Obama DID push back on Romney and made the right points about what Romney's plan would do and how it has failed miserably in the past.  There were instances in the debate where Obama called Romney out...guess he just wasn't mean enough about it.  

  •  I take objection to the caption (0+ / 0-)

    They are BOTH idiots, and they are BOTH liars.

    You get what you deserve, even if you don't deserve it (Issan Dorsey, Zen teacher)

    by kayak58 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:28:08 PM PDT

  •  "Myth Romney" is what we called him in MA. n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  Romney lied and it was a stupid lie too (0+ / 0-)

    His argument was
    1) taxes have to be lowered on 'Job Creators'
    2) so they will have more money to create jobs with
    3) and also he is going to eliminate deductions so
    4) the same amount of money will be collected in taxes.

    So the question is, where's the 'job creating' money going to come from since Mitt says he's not going to cut the amount of money he's going to collect in taxes?  (Not to mention the fact that money spent on wages and salaries are deductible and never taxed . . . so taxes have nothing to do with 'job creating.)

    But this is how the goddamn Mormon crook made all his money . . . fast talking and lies.  But I'm worried that the gullible idiots who racked up over priced houses, stupid consumer debts purchasing tacky Walmart crap will buy into the sanctimonious conman's BS.  

    •  Cutting tax rate not same as cutting tax revenue (0+ / 0-)

      After the Bush tax "cuts" which cut the tax rate were enacted in 2003, actual revenue collected by the IRS skyrocketed, up until around 2007 when the higher unemployment rates dropped revenues again.  So yes, cutting the rate can raise more money.

  •  78% of small businesses have no employees (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    S F Hippie

    They're sole proprietorships with no payroll and no employees.   How does cutting their tax rates help anyone but those business owners?  It's not like they're gonna hire people and create jobs.  It just helps scammers like Mitt.

    "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln

    by leftreborn on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 12:37:24 PM PDT

  •  They need an ad (0+ / 0-)

    Showing Romney giving his talking points on the stump, in interviews wherever, and juxtapose it with him saying the opposite in the debate. Point after point.

  •  Pundit class (0+ / 0-)

    Yet what does the pundit class take away from the debate?  They give the liar the advantage and call him a winner.  What a perverted state of democracy, politics and simple ethics.  

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