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Trigger warning: Also apparently the voiceover is in wingnuttia. Since I can't erase the sounds of people being beaten from my brain any easier than I can the images I watch these with the sound off. I suggest you do the same.

Obviously there is something very wrong. No one should be treated this way by police. And do not delude yourselves that this is not happening here. I can link to a hundred videos proving otherwise. Does anyone think it is an accident the the only unions that politicians answer to are police unions?

We as a population need to make it known in no uncertain terms that protecting the rich at the expense of the lower classes is a formula for disaster in any society and is unsustainable.

Remember it is we, not the tax dodging wealthy that pay their salaries.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Europe is on the brink, and the authoritarians (11+ / 0-)

    are best placed to benefit in the short term.

    Eventually there is going to be one hell of a backlash against "austerity" as currently applied. No thought to getting people back to work and hurting them more when there is no chance of getting work is an explosive cocktail.

    "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:32:35 AM PDT

  •  The idea of austerity defies reason and morality (7+ / 0-)

    when the vast wealth that could support many is owned mainly by the few.

  •  love you, horace (3+ / 0-)

    but that ad is very deceptive, as the voice-over has little to do with spain, and a lot to do with libertarian claptrap.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:40:22 AM PDT

    •  in fact (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      the v/o seems to be from a fox "news" contributor.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:44:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My argument is based soley on the video. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JayRaye, CherryTheTart

      I can't control who is going to post a good one. And in this case whatever they say can not defeat the images contained.

      Watch it with the sound off.

      Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

      by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:53:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the images are powerful (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Horace Boothroyd III, JayRaye

        and there's even worse news out of greece- check the two items in my sunday open thread. but this is a right wing video, dceptively using spain.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 07:57:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laurence Lewis

          even more deceptive is the belief that what is happening in Spain is anything new. The Spanish police have always been about order, with law an afterthought.  This isn't something that has happened because of the economic crisis, and it has very little to do with it.

          If you don't think so, then read up about GAL.

          Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberación (GAL, Antiterrorist Liberation Groups) were death squads established illegally by officials of the Spanish government to fight ETA, the principal Basque separatist militant group. They were active from 1983 until 1987, under Spanish Socialist Workers Party (PSOE)-led governments. It was proven at trial that they were financed by important officials within the Spanish Interior Ministry. The Spanish daily newspaper, El Mundo, played an important role in revealing the plot when it ran a comprehensive series of articles on the matter.

          GAL operated mainly in the portion of the Basque country on the French side of the Spanish-French border, but kidnappings and tortures were also performed at various places in Spain. The victims (at least 27 dead and 26 injured) were either members of ETA or Basque nationalist activists, but some victims were not known to have links to ETA or political violence at all. The GAL was active from 1983 until 1987, a period often referred to as "La guerra sucia" (the dirty war) in Spanish history.

          http://www.economicpopulist.org

          by ManfromMiddletown on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:13:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I annotated the intro accordingly. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          Please return to the issue.

          Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

          by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:18:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the issue is the video (0+ / 0-)

            which ignores the real issues. delberately and deceptively.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:35:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  In Spain (2+ / 0-)

              There is a long Anarchist tradition, and it's possible this is why the narrative appeals to Spaniards.

              Of course, the term libertarian was originally used in Europe in a left wing sense, and meant libertarian socialism. In the U.S. the term was co-opted by the right wing, and has a different meaning. So to the ears of a European anarchist, this might have a different meaning and nuance than it does to the ears of an American listener.

              Aside from the allusion to states rights and excessive taxation, most of what was said in the narrative is something many on the left can identify with. In Spain, Anarchists might see the role of a central government over regional and local governments as authoritarian, and could even view taxation, in circumstances in which the funds of the People are taken and diverted to expenditures which benefit the rich, or the State, but not the People, as authoritarian.

              But to the ears of the American liberal listener, we hear in the narrative nuances of the libertarian right wing. Liberals in the states wouldn't like the constant negative reference in the piece to government. But the truth is governments can become too authoritarian, as it certainly has in recent years here in the U.S.

              Left libertarians are miles apart from the Ayn Randian right wing, since wage slavery and the economic inequality inherent to capitalism is anything but freedom. Right wing libertarians don't realize that those who control the means of production are the masters, the authoritarians enslaving the working class.

              Anyway... I can see why this resonates in Spain.

              "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

              by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 09:47:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the video (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Quicklund

                has absolutely nothing to do with the audio. the audio has absolutely nothing to do with spain. it's not resonating there, it's not even relevant.

                the riots have been about austerity- period. the audio doesn't mention austerity. there are specific conditions and events happening in spain right now, and this wingnut video is trying to deceive people about it.

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 10:13:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't think you speak for Spaniards (2+ / 0-)

                  Think of the Indignato movement, for example. Its a different context in play that you may not be aware of. The most recent catalyst of protest is austerity, but there are quite a few libertarian leftists in Spain who would see the austerity measures within the context of abuse of government authority, in which the state serves the interests of the wealthy class. In this sense, the narrative has a lot to do with Spain. The police have been especially brutal there in recent months.

                  Occupy has roots in the Indignato movement in Spain. Just as Occupy was brutalized by police and found itself protesting police behavior (remember, police power derives from the authority of government) , so have the protestors in Spain. If you just had your head beaten by Spanish cops, you might view the context a little differently. Remember that not too long ago Spain was governed by a fascist dictator, hence the distrust of the authority of government.

                  Governments can abuse authority. If you think about the piece in that context, it will be clearer why this might resonate to the Spanish protest movement.

                  "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                  by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 10:34:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  i'm very aware (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Quicklund

                    of what is happening in spain, and i'm very aware of spanish history.

                    the narrative of that video is all about libertarian anti-government tripe, and it specifically omits austerity and banking and income disparity and all the actual causes of the unrest in spain. the maker of the video is trying to coopt what is happening in spain to promote an agenda that is actually antithetical to what the protests are about. the protesters want more government support, but by making the video all about generalized animosity toward government, the video makers are deliberately attempting to appeal to the visceral reaction we all have against police brutality, and then to use that reaction to dupe people into supporting an agenda that is actually responsible for what the protesters are protesting against. apparently, it works.

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 11:36:51 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, I understand that the narrative (2+ / 0-)

                      has an American libertarian slant. But most of what is expressed in the narrative is something people on the left can agree with.

                      The video is not "ALL" about anti-government tripe, as you describe it. It is about abuse of authority and creeping totalitarianism.

                      I've no idea who made the video, who did the Spanish translation, but frankly, most of what is said can find agreement on the left.

                      No one here is being "duped" and I find that highly offensive. I think most readers here know this has a right wing nuance to the voice over, but find most of what is stated to be something one can find agreement with.

                      The role of government shouldn't be defended when it uses the heavy hand of authoritarianism. And that happens to be true even when expressed by Paulites, despite some of the awful political positions they hold.

                      Unfortunately, far too many "liberals" have an authoritarian streak in them, and are too willing to look the other way when Democrats in office abuse authority. Talk about being duped...  good grief, just look at the silence among Dems to the NDAA, prosecution of whistle blowers, kill lists, indefinite detention, rendition, the coziness with Wall Street, the kowtowing to the Industrial Military Complex.

                      No, I'm not duped, Lawrence. You're not pointing out anything I didn't already perceive. I'm just a bit more willing to see this in a different context.

                      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                      by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 11:54:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  again (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Quicklund

                        that's their purpose- it's just like ron paul. because he's good on a few things, he wants to dupe people into thinking he's good in general.

                        that video is insidious. it ignores the real cause of what's happening in spain, gets people to focus on areas of agreement, adds areas of disagreement, and thereby gets people to propagate the wrong message while keeping people from noticing what should be the real message.

                        it's kind of like republicans talking about the struggling economy and blaming obama. everyone agrees that the economy sucks. many liberals agree that obama should have done more. but by focusing on the struggling economy, republicans hope to convince voters to reject obama, who didn't get a big enough stimulus, and support them, who wouldn't have had any stimulus at all.

                        the areas of agreement are being used to manipulate people, and if you don't see how insidious that is, you are indeed being duped.

                        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 12:31:48 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You think Ron Paul has influence in Spain? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          joe shikspack

                          Clearly some among the American readership are duped by Paulites/libertarians, but I doubt it was this one video, standing alone, that turned anyone into a duped right wing libertarian.

                          And here on Dkos, I doubt that anyone is in danger of being duped by the video, given the overall context. Of more concern are those who think government is always good when Dems have control of the executive branch. It isn't.  What many of us find more disturbing is the way Dems defend the development of an authoritarian security state by the very people they worked to elect. Duped, indeed.

                          And more than a few here have defended the police action of removing people from parks. Curiously, I didn't notice any of them earning your "duped" epithet.

                          Those of us who were pushed out of parks by police know that there is more being protested than economic injustice. Another issue that became part of the movement was the reality of dealing with the police authorities, in which protestors are spied on, infiltrated, persecuted, and sabotaged by members of the security state. This became another focus of protest.

                          It isn't just austerity that gets people out into the streets, it's also speaking truth to power, and protesting the way the powers that be try to suppress speech with violence. Those of us who've been physically roughed up by riot cops in recent history may have reason to see this video quite differently than those whose idea of activism is limited to phone banking and door to door canvassing or writing on blogs.

                          I stand by what I've said: In a Spanish historical context, the video could easily find resonance with people on the left. To be clear, I'd rather see a narrative by authentic voices of the left, but I'm not going to lose sleep about the remote possibility the video will induce anyone to run full throttle into the snares of the right wing. More worrisome is the way anything remotely critical of the Obama administration gets denigrated. The conservatives aren't the only ones out there trying deceive/dupe the populace.

                          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                          by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:06:53 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  you're missing the point again (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Quicklund

                            paul has nothing to do with it. the point is this: anyone who looks at spain and doesn't talk about austerity is either confused or, as in this video, deliberately misleading. the violence in spain is what happens with austerity and corporate oligarchy and income disparity. to decry the violence without setting the context misses the point entirely. to decry the violence and then use it as an excuse to make a broad attack on government is absolutely bassackward.

                            people in spain want more government help. the violence of the police is in support of a right wing government that is gutting government help. the maker of the video extensively quotes a fox "news" analyst whose agenda is the same as that of the koch brothers. it could not be more misleading and insidious.

                            and plenty of us criticize obama from the left, but that's entirely different from criticism from the right. confusing the two types of criticism is exactly the intention of the makers of that video.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:14:31 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Not missing the point at all (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            joe shikspack

                            Your point, for what its worth, was understood from the onset. I think you're missing the more nuanced view I've presented. I've responded to this at length, and there is nothing new in your latest reply that would change my previous response, which still stands.

                            It's pointless to continue this. I'm off to tend my apiaries, which is a lot more fun. The bees don't tell me I'm duped, and they give me sweet sustenance, wax for candles, and the basic ingredient of mead.  ;)

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 04:09:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  congratulations (0+ / 0-)

                            you've nuanced your way into promoting the wingnuttery of a guy who stars at the koch brothers' annual gathering. well done.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 06:16:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  as in this (0+ / 0-)

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 06:20:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Utter nonsense (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm not promoting anything of the sort, and I've made that more than clear to any reasonable, rational thinker.

                            This is disappointing behavior on your part. You're willfully mischaracterizing this discussion, and willfully conflating my comments into actual support of the right wing.

                            This is quite simplistic. I stated that the part of literal text of narrative, standing by itself, is something many on the left can agree with (which is completely true), but because you think you know whose voice is narrating, you equate my statement with support not of just the literal, actual words, but of everything that voice represents to you, even of policies that were not literally expressed in that video.

                            This is what is known in logic as ad hominem. Because of the personal qualities or other views of whoever it is you think narrated the video, you make any sort of agreement with any of the statements to be agreement in toto of all that that person, in your mind, has ever been connected with.

                            By this logic, if I happen to like a quote from, say, the Bible (I do like a few), that makes me a christian, despite my lack of belief. Or if I like Wagner's operas (which I do), that makes me an anti-Semite. If I've ever read and liked Orson Scott Card, I'm a homophobe. If I like one thing about China, I'm a totalitarian. If Ron Paul has one good idea, and I express agreement, I'm supporting right wing lunatics. This is ludicrous, it's blatantly stupid, and it's bad logic.

                            By this logic, I might as well call you a war criminal, since by association with your support of Obama, you're as complicit as he is with the assassinations of innocents with the drone strikes. Your vote is support for all he stands for.

                            This is a complete fail in logic, is highly partisan, and is a smear based on guilt by association. It is one of the slimiest ploys to twist words one can resort to in debate.

                            This is just stupid thinking. My estimation of you has gone into the toilet.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:01:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  again (0+ / 0-)

                            using that audio on that video is not objective or honest, it is deliberate deception. that video was made to dupe people, whereas the bible and wagner were pretty straightforward about what they were and what they were trying to do. pretending you can cherry-pick while ignoring the context and intention validates deliberate deception.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:52:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, in fact, the Bible is full of deception (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Horace Boothroyd III

                            And the Christian faith is associated with an awful history. But there are a few passages from the Bible about love that are sublimely beautiful, and Christians often do good charity work. The comparsion is a good one.

                            You know the context of this discussion is not about supporting the right wing, but is a discussion of the narrative of one video. To conflate agreement with part of that narrative as support for the entire agenda of the Koch brothers makes me wonder if you're drunk, to be honest.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 09:02:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  we're not talking about an entire history (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Quicklund

                            we're talking about a specific piece of propaganda. that commentator, and anyone using him, and by using him as an overlay on a video that represents exactly the opposite of what the commentator is trying to achieve, is not in any way sublime or beautiful. you can't cherry-pick the parts you like. they are there precisely to manipulate people into doing so. it's like saying there was something redeeming in the willie horton ad, because we all hate violent crime.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 10:13:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  To make your point (0+ / 0-)

                            ...You've by necessity have had to resort to a huge exaggeration of your premise, because without exaggeration, you have no point.

                            Willie Horton ad? Really? The comparison is a huge stretch and is not at all appropriate.

                            You've had to resort to a rigid, black and white, absolutist view of the universe, one of all or nothing, to try to make your argument stick. There is no room in your perspective for adaptation to context. Chop chop... cut and dry. Binary. That's not my way of seeing the world.

                            We're just going to have to disagree here.

                            Too bad this entire discussion couldn't have been about police brutality and the way violence is used by the state to shut down public outcry against austerity measures. The  topics, that of authoritarianism/police abuse as well as austerity/banking industry fraud all intersect, and deserve to be aired, even if during the tenure of a Democrat in the executive branch.

                            I notice quicklund has shown up to rec comments in the dead thread. Dkos dynamics tend to be interesting. ;)

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:01:50 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no exaggeration (0+ / 0-)

                            look at that video and realize that the guy doing the voice over is promoting the political agenda that inspired those protests.

                            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                            by Laurence Lewis on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:01:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I've answered all this at length (0+ / 0-)

                            You've added nothing new. We're now repeating ourselves, and this is going in circles.

                            "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

                            by ZhenRen on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 11:25:06 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  I don't agree. I think the VO (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      is fine.

  •  And yet all those million (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III, JayRaye

    of brave people come out to protest.

    Franco ruled for 40 years no thanks to the US , so they know where this could go.

  •  I'd share this on FB, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III

    there are kids on there so I dunno.

  •  Thank you, HB III (2+ / 0-)

    This has to be seen to be believed!

    And yet it isn't so different from our own Labor History, which our Grandparents and Great-Grandparents lived (& died).

    WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Oct: Miners are cheaper than props.

    by JayRaye on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:11:12 AM PDT

    •  PS: (2+ / 0-)

      You can't weave cloth (or mine coal, or care for the sick, or educate children, or drive trucks) with bayonets (or batons, etc).
                                                      Joe Hill
                                                      (paraphrased)

      WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Oct: Miners are cheaper than props.

      by JayRaye on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:15:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is a powerful video and I deplore what is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rizzo, Horace Boothroyd III

    happening in Spain right now in cities like Madrid, but I agree that the VO is overblown.  Really, a proper VO for this video should focus on the fact that these people are exercising their democratic right to protest, and the right-wing Partido Popular controlled government is sending out the police after them. This is not just about "the government."  It's about the fucking Partido Popular and their right wing brand of conservatism in Spain.  As a progressive, I think government can do great and profoundly useful things for people.  The socialists in Spain never would have sent out the police like that.  We should not mistake "government" for the PP's brand of repressive police-state governing.  This VO leaves no room for that.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 08:12:21 AM PDT

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