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Cross Posted at The Progressive Zionist

On Thurs. Sept 19th, I wrote a diary called:Please Hold with the Victory Dance - GOTV! following in the wake of the awesome Democratic National Convention and the numbers that we were seeing.

Now the overall numbers on that diary were positive BUT there were a number of "Hey, let us celebrate the Republicans are dust" (paraphrased) or "Don't be a downer" comments as well. Given the aftermath of the debate debacle (and it was a debacle whether we think it was or not), I think my warning was more or less on target. AND NOW... I see it again.

Look, this thing is tight. Why? Who knows. In my mind I cannot fathom why the hell someone would ever even consider voting for that shameless liar Mitt Romney. But, you know what... People are going to and are considering voting for him. That is just a freakin' fact. People do dumb things all the time. It doesn't necessarily matter what someone who makes their decisions based on facts thinks, it's just the way it is.

So.. now we have all these diaries out there spinning away that the debate didn't mean a thing. That the President even got a bounce from them. Well guess what? The debate did mean something and the only bounce that anyone got was Mitt Romney's. Here is the RCP average: President Obama + 0.5 (47.9 - 47.4). Just today PEW came out with a poll that has Romney leading by +4.

How about those battleground states that we supposedly doing so well in.... Holy crap... the leads are disappearing. Ohio... was +8... now +3, Colorado (RCP has +.2 Ras. Has the President +1, but U of Denver has the President at +4), Florida - TIE...

Ok but, RCP has a slight Republican bias. SO... let's see what Poll Tracker says... Oh why look... Romney at + 2.7%. Over there we have the President DOWN in CO. by .1%, FL, the President up by .6 and in Ohio the Pres. up by 3.4%

Despite what we say to cheer ourselves up... this one is now "anybody's Ball Game" and understanding that the Romney campaign is going to continue to lie shamelessly in the debates and the President is seemingly playing "Not to lose" who the hell knows what is going to happen.

Look people don't give a crap that Mitt is lying like a rug. They don't care that he demonstrably takes five sides of every issue. They really don't. They hear things like "Government has to get smaller, we refuse to raise revenue, we must have the strongest military in the world and it has to keep growing, Oh yeah, and we have to have the best parts of the ACA... but remember we are not going to run deficits". I mean who would actually be stupid enough to believe that? Apparently a lot of Americans, that's who.

So, what do we do... How do we fight this? WELL... First off we "play to win". What does that mean? It means we get out and inform people. Not sitting around telling our group of people that everything will be alright. It won't. We get out and we inform people and let them know what is at stake here. Do we do that... well with ourselves we do, but do we do that outside of this? I talk to Romney supporters all the time. I constantly challenge them. We all need to do that. Get out of our comfort zone and fight (not physically)...

What else do we do... We sign up at OFA offices and put in the time with the "ground game",. Phonebanking, precinct walking. You name it.

In my last diary ParkRanger had an awesome group of links, some great resources.

Come on people no need to stick our heads in the sand on this one. Let's be real. We need to push here. No matter how evil getting rid of Big Bird seems. That is not what is going to help us, because if it was... it would have. We need a debate win from Biden, We need the President to win the next two debates, AND we need to have our ground game firing on all cylinders for the next month - THAT is what will do it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  asdf (10+ / 0-)
    Look people don't give a crap that Mitt is lying like a rug. They don't care that he demonstrably takes five sides of every issue. They really don't. They hear things like "Government has to get smaller, we refuse to raise revenue, we must have the strongest military in the world and it has to keep growing, Oh yeah, and we have to have the best parts of the ACA... but remember we are not going to run deficits". I mean who would actually be stupid enough to believe that? Apparently a lot of Americans, that's who.
    If you believe this is true, then any attemept to 'educate them' is destined to fail.

    Your argument is self-contradictory. You cannot simultaneously say that the electorate is this stupid AND this savvy simultaneously.

    Sadly, everything Communism said about itself was a lie. Even more sadly,, everything Communism said about Capitalism was the truth.

    by GayIthacan on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:30:32 PM PDT

    •  Agreed (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PALiberal1, ardyess, Supavash

      It doesn't make any sense to say that voters don't care that Romney is a liar and then to say we need to educate them. If voters are so dumb as to not care that Romney is a liar then they are a lost cause.

    •  You don't have to educate anyone.You just have (5+ / 0-)

      to make sure that people who voted for Obama in 2008 stick with him. Obama had the opportunity to do this last week and he blew it. He will have another opportunity but the fact is that the race is now much tighter and the margin of error is going to be minimal.

    •  No... (0+ / 0-)

      What I am saying is that we both have to get out the base and we have to try to educate people.

      And how can you not believe what I said was true. You are seeing it first hand. I mean come on... are you kidding me. Romney did all the things I said he did. He articulated all of these points during the debate, and his numbers went up like a rocket. SO... if people aren't that dense, then explain that.

      "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

      by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:53:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Axelrod & advisers must not play prevent defense (6+ / 0-)

    They advised Obama to be unconfrontational to avoid offending independent voters. Instead of winning over independents this strategy made Obama look weak.

    The middle man triangulation act fails every time Obama plays it. Independents hate it. Independents are looking for strong leadership.

    If Obama shows leadership, people will follow him and he will win. If he plays middle man, all the GOTV in the world won't help.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:37:00 PM PDT

    •  Thats exactly true (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      agnostic, ems97206

      People are SICK AND TIRED of nothing getting done and Obama just happened to take this bad advice at the WRONG moment.

      People saw the feckless, weak responses that Obama offered to Romney's lies.

      This reminded them that this is what has been the demeanor of the president for almost 4 years, ever since he got elected.

      This debate performance hit people at a VISCERAL level and it is fatal to his re-election hopes.

      The polls probably won't recover.

      People want aggression since that is associated with ACTION and PROGRESS. Romney showed it. The President did not.

      Its almost as if people were pissed off at Obama for not defending the middle class in a strong enough way.

      I think this was a moment when people said "F**K IT - we are tired of  inaction!".

      I think Romney is a liar and will be a disaster for this nation and I am PISSED OFF at the President for being so weak in the debate.

      I will still vote for him because I know the nuances of what the consequences of a Romney presidency will be, but most other Americans don't know or care. They want a head smasher who will TAKE ACTION.

      Sorry - this debate performance was a fatal mistake. Its non-recoverable.

      Say hello to President Romney. I take no pleasure in saying that and blame the President for letting us down.

      People want a president who can communicate forcefully because that shows that he has the ability to FIGHT for them.  Obama has shown none of this and Romney has.

      Fight SPAM tyranny - Use Lion-Mail.NET for e-mail

      by takascar2 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:48:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it is one bad performance (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        basquebob, volleyboy1

        Obama has been doing well since he stopped playing nice with Republicans. I thought that his team had learned from 2010. Last week they went back to the strategy that caused the 2010 disaster.

        Obama is too smart to make that mistake in the next 2 debates. It's not over by a long shot.

        look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

        by FishOutofWater on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:55:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree this is not over, not by a long shot (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ems97206

          BUT, it just got a lot tougher. All I am saying is that the sooner we realize it the better. Sitting here telling ourselves that "It will be alright" is not the answer.

          Telling ourselves that this is a serious problem and we have to take it seriously is what matters.

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:16:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "Fatal to his re-election efforts" (0+ / 0-)

        You concern borders on being trollish, and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:05:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah... I found that a bit troubling as well (0+ / 0-)

          I do have to say, I agreed with most (but not all of that comment), however, I think we are still very much in it and still in the lead....

          Again with the football analogy... Nothing sums up this better than my feeling watching my 'Niners vs. the Packers on opening day.

          The 'Niners had a big lead, and then for some reason decided to "Rush three" and let Aaron Rodgers pass the ball. Needless to say the Pack scored. THEN they got the ball back and again, the 'Niners "Rushed Three" and the Pack was driving, until the defense suddenly wised up and went after him causing a serious of tough plays and the Niners went on to win. BUT.... I have no doubt in my mind that if they had kept up their safe strategy they would have gotten caught in the end.

          That's what I see happening here in the race and I see us (the fans) as sitting back and saying: "Well it will be ok.. see they only gained 20 on the last play... it wasn't like they scored".

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:21:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  hopefully this has been a wakeup call to Obama (5+ / 0-)

      Axelrod & company have given him bad advice from the getgo.  Obama has done better when being a passionate progressive.  On every thing which he has been criticized for by the Right, he would have done better to be even more Liberal about.  Such as the Stimulus, financial regulation, and the Affordable Care Act.  Why?  Because it's right, and because it presents a more clear contrast between Obama's support of the middle class, working class, and the poor and Romney's support of the 1%.

  •  Yes, let's be real (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Supavash, Mariken

    Willard got a huge bump on Thursday and Friday, and it is already receding. Obama would likely win if the election was held today, even if he would've lost on Thursday or Friday.

    •  It's already receding????? WTF are you talking (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bepanda, Victor Ward

      about...

      Look at the gosh darned numbers. Holy shit... It's receding, it's fucking building. Are you living in a freakin' bubble?

      This is like the football game where one side is playing "Prevent" and the other side just gave up a catch and run down to their own 15 and are sitting there saying. A. "Well at least they didn't score on that play, and then B. Are rushing three and dropping into coverage on the goal line.

      This is unbelievable.

      "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

      by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:45:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bet you wish you could edit that comment: (4+ / 0-)

        ELECTION 2012 TRACKING
        Oct 1-7, 2012 – Updates daily at 1 p.m. ET; reflects one-day change

        Obama    50%  +1
        Romney  45%   -1

        His bump is, like my hair line, receding.

        Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

        by psilocynic on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:49:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nope I don't wish I could edit it all.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Victor Ward, bepanda

          WHEN I see TPM and RCP, reflecting this... then I will change my mind. Until then I plan to fight like hell and redouble my efforts to not see a Romney Presidency.

          We just can't afford it.

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:56:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So tomorrow then. Okay. (0+ / 0-)

            Also, just a recommendation, you can "fight like hell" as you put it without resorting to hyperbolicism (that's right, it's an ism now). Just because people get happy when we are winning doesn't mean we are giving up. That's the most ridiculous meme I have ever seen. Or do you just not pass up an opportunity to say "I told you so" even though it may make you look like chicken little?

            Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

            by psilocynic on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:01:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You know - you can keep up with the insults (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Victor Ward, bepanda

              OR you can actually engage. I am not insulting you nor do I deserve that from you in return.

              The fact of the matter is that there has been complacency from what we thought was a big lead and a "We got this in the bag" mentality AND it still exists. You may think that is ridiculous but I see it differently.

              AS for the "I told you so" part... Well... There is that. The fact of the matter is that is what happened and I can't help but see it again, particularly in reactions like yours. I see this sort of smug self satisfaction (as it comes off to me), of the "Well, I am going to show you". I have seen this before in politics and I will see it again.

              I am just telling you what I see.... Notice in the title (A RANT), SO... please insult me all you like, fuck it, insult me until election day all you want, tell me that I am Chicken Little. If that's what you want to believe... more power to you.

              Here are my predictions from a while ago. I stick with them - I hope I am wrong.

              "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

              by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:38:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it's receding (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        psilocynic, StellaRay, EcosseNJ

        What the fuck are YOU talking about? Every single pollster has showed Obama surging back on Sunday, even Rasmussen. Pew is simply telling us what we already know, that Thursday and Friday were awful days for us.

      •  Chill out my friend. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        psilocynic, StellaRay, Mariken, EcosseNJ

        The polling you are citing had jthe majority of interviews done on Thursday and Friday, undoubtedly Mittens' high water mark.

        Like I said this weekend. Look at the polling again on Weds or Thursday of this week and you'll have a better picture of where this race actually stands.

        Sorry to shine the sun on your rainy day parade.

        •  No that's ok... If you can back up numbers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Victor Ward

          showing I am wrong... that's great. Dynamite. BUT, that is not what I am see. Shine sun on this all day long BUT DON'T minimize what is happening.

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:02:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And you need to realize (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            EcosseNJ

            that there are some ardent poll watchers here who have delved into this more deeply than you have.  There has been lots of info on this site today about how all these polls, including aggregate polls like RCP, have come to their numbers.

            I generally don't like dissing polls, as I feel it's a loser's fall back.  However, people need to become more educated about the polls they're believing, and how they do their business.

            It is extremely important WHEN the results were gathered.  That's why you're going to continue to see Mitt's bounce decline.  Because one night does not an election make, particularly when Mitt has been behind everywhere that counts for months, when he has run an extremely bad campaign that's not going to be disappeared in one night.

            Not saying he's not going to end up with any bounce, not saying the president didn't under perform in the debate. Just saying, hold on to your hat.  Politics is not for the feint of heart, and it takes a real toll on knee jerkers.

            "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

            by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:15:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That it does and I appreciate the civility of your (0+ / 0-)

              response.

              I hope you are right but as of this moment I am not taking anything for granted. I really, really hope that I am wrong but in my heart I think I have this one right.

              Now don't get me wrong... I don't think that one debate will flip the election but I do think if Biden loses and the President loses the next one... It's all over unless a miracle happens and we get turnout like 2008. We get that kind of turnout and then it doesn't matter (I believe).

              I think we need to use what happened and the sudden rise of Romney to redouble our efforts on the ground. We still lead this, but, the lead is a lot less than it was.

              "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

              by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:47:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  thank you for this diary (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1, Supavash, bepanda, Victor Ward

    Alot of people here live in fantasyland.  A week ago, we were making fun of right wingers and their whole "unskew the polls" thing .. but now, today, we have people saying that they won't accept the latest Pew poll because the crosstabs don't look right.  Guess what people .. the polls reflect how those who are being polled self-identify their party affiliation.  And if alot of people who were self-idendtifying as democratic or independent a week ago are now suddenly changing to independent or Republican, well that's because they were persuaded by a debate in which Mitt Romney steamrolled Barack Obama.  The President himself is acknowledging that he did not do well and that he must do better next time.  60 million or so people watched that debate and it had a huge effect on this election.  You can try to bury your head in the sand all you want, but the smarter thing is to accept that it was a very bad turn for our side and that we will have to fight and scrape and claw to win the Presidency.

    •  THIS!!!! EXACTLY (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward

      We can still win, but sitting around thinking that this tide will recede... It's just dumb. We have to work to win this.

      "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

      by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:46:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's all on Obama (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native, volleyboy1, Victor Ward

        we can all volunteer and phone bank and donate to the cause, but really, Obama has to make a more emphatic and convincing sales pitch to the American People.  He has to do it himself - with something approaching the effectiveness of the Bill Clinton convention speech.  He has to capture the media's attention somehow - I'm not sure how.  And he can't wait until the next debate to do it.

      •  We have always had to work (0+ / 0-)

        to win. Nothing new there.  And I don't see any sign that people on this site don't know that, or didn't know that when the polls looked better.

        And these polls WILL recede.  You just watch.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:17:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Best therapy for any poll anxiety or feelings (6+ / 0-)

    of discouragement is to do more GOTV and spend time at the OFA offices volunteering. It really does renew one's energy and it is such a great , worthwhile experience.

    This election will be won based on turnout. That is where we come in.  We can and do make a difference.

    It is all about GOTV.

    Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

    by wishingwell on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:39:41 PM PDT

  •  Channeling the ghost of Adlai Stevenson (4+ / 0-)

    "All thinking people" are voting for Obama "That's not enough [we] need a majority."

    Mitt's doing well because he promised everyone a new pony.

    Obama could win if he points out that, really, Romney's dishing out horsemeat pie.

    I can't believe our election is being decided by people who can't tell the difference between republicans and democrats...that's like letting a dog choose what color to paint your house.

    by PBJ Diddy on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:39:53 PM PDT

  •  This is bullshit volleyball. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Supavash, psilocynic, Mariken

    The problem was not our complacence.

    Of course we are confident when the polls and narrative are good and goddamn it confidence works and doesn't cost anything.  It builds enthusiasm.

    There's a problem if the confidence turns to hubris, which I still don't think was the case.

    The problem is that a relatively passive PBO "lost" the debate with the help of MSM framing, crank snap pollsters, and Romney had a good debate strategy (lying works so fuck it) while Obama was not prepared for some of the rapid flip-flops.

    That is the problem!

    •  I'm sad when I read comments like these. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      volleyboy1

      Very sad. Sad because we believe the MSM will win the elections for us. Sad because we think everyone knows the things we know.
      Yes, we have become very complacent. Yes, we are taking victory for granted. Yes, some of us are already celebrating. And it makes me sad.
      What Mitt does is irrelevant. We need to ask ourselves every day: Can we do more. Can we get ONE MORE voter out on Election Day for our cause? Can we remind a few more people to vote for the President?
      What the diarist is asking is for people to continue to work hard. To assume we are down 10, with just a few minutes to go and make sure we lay everything on the line the next 30 days. Let's give everything we got these next 30 days til the finish line.

      Don't forget to register to vote here: http://netrootsradio.blogspot.com/p/register-to-vote.html

      by bepanda on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:55:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To each their own. (0+ / 0-)

        When I'm "10 points down" I feel listless and discouraged.  We're NOT 10 points down.  Not even close. In fact, the case is easy to make that we're still ahead.

        Whatever works.  If you need to believe we're getting smashed to work harder, fine.  I don't. The opposite is true for me.  I like to feel the wind beneath my wings, and I still do.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:26:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Football analogy # 3 (0+ / 0-)

          I believe we are winning by two points with five mins. to go and the other team just scored a touchdown, got the ball back and are starting a drive from their own 30.

          For me, that means go hard to keep them out of field goal range - it means fight like hell if they do score to get the ball back and win it for our side. I think that is an exact analogy as to how I feel.

          BUT if we were down 10 I would still play hard. The game isn't over until the buzzer sounds, and I have seen and coached in more miracle finishes (and had one go against me in a crucial situation), than I care to have experienced - It is not fun.

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:52:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No problem with the football analogy. (0+ / 0-)

            In fact, imo, that's what got Obama in trouble at the first debate.  The idea that all he had to do was run out the clock, do no harm. And if you're honest, you'll admit as many football games are won by running out the clock in the last 2 minutes, as by fighting back in more direct ways. It didn't turn out to be the right strategy here.

            You seem to interpret anyone's desire to keep this in perspective as a sign of weakness in the fight.  T'ain't true.

            For right now, fact is we don't need a "miracle" finish.  We're just not in that bad of shape.  What we need is for every Democrat to get off their duffs and vote.

            And like I said, to each his own.  If playing like you're 10 points behind, even when you're not, jazzes you up, go for it. I'll listen to my drummer, you listen to yours---and in the end I hope we both end up with where we want to be, because I know we have that in common.

            "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

            by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 04:21:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  THANK YOU! (0+ / 0-)

        You got this right... completely right. Every vote counts (as we saw in 2000), so I think this part is 100% right:

        Can we get ONE MORE voter out on Election Day for our cause? Can we remind a few more people to vote for the President?

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:40:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  First of all lastplace... it's volleyboy1 NOT (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Ward

      volleyball..

      Second, I happen to agree with you when you say this:

      The problem is that a relatively passive PBO "lost" the debate with the help of MSM framing, crank snap pollsters, and Romney had a good debate strategy (lying works so fuck it) while Obama was not prepared for some of the rapid flip-flops.
      BUT I am not saying that the President had a problem of Hubris... I am saying WE (the progressive/liberal community) had a problem with hubris, and now I am saying we have a problem with sticking our "heads in the sand".

      SO... we can continue to tell ourselves that this is ok or we can go out with a new will fight. ME... I want to fight, I realize this shit is serious. A President Romney would be horrible for my children, my wife and I. We just can't afford it.

      "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

      by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:11:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So now you're reduced to (0+ / 0-)

        pointing out that someone failed to include the 1 when addressing you? Chill.

        NO ONE HERE is going out there with any less fight, and I think you compliment yourself too much to think you're leading the fight bandwagon.  

        You tell us this shit is serious.  Thanks Sherlock.  The members of this community deserve more faith than you are showing them.

        I understand you are passionate, and fearful. But that's not going to win it either.  Passionate and confident will work better every day of the week.

        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

        by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:31:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  NO... he got my name wrong and that is what (0+ / 0-)

          was bullshit... Particularly with his attack. I took it in the spirit that he meant it... Had he wanted a respectful discussion he could have taken at least a second to actually look at who he was addressing. It's not just the "1" that is wrong it is the name in general.

          I appreciate you pointing out my obvious mistake and giving him a complete pass on his.

          Very nice.

          "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

          by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 04:21:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

            the problem here is you see it as a lack of respect for you, and I don't. My moniker is StellaRay.  Many here address me as Stella, some as SR, some never mention my moniker at all.  I have simply never thought that meant any disrespect to me.  I don't judge the comment by how I'm addressed.  I myself have shortened many a moniker here when addressing someone.

            I'll be sure not to shorten yours if I address you with it, as I'd rather you pay attention to my comment, rather than the way you were addressed.

            "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

            by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 04:28:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No no no StellaRay... you have it wrong. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              StellaRay

              People here call me VB or Volley... All good.

              BUT lastman called me volleyball in an insulting post. My handle is volleyboy1 NOT volleyball. He messed up my name AND insulted me in a post leading me to believe that it was both intentional as well as disrespectful.

              I don't care if you call me Volley, or VB but to call me post "bullshit" and then get me name wrong. Well that gets a non-respectful answer from me. It's a "bullshit" way to go and should be called out.

              "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

              by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 04:43:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

                in that I didn't notice the volleyboy vs. volleyball thing.  Perhaps it was intentional, perhaps that's the last thing the commenter was thinking about, and got it wrong.  

                But it is never a pleasant experience to have someone call your post bullshit.  My sympathies.  Really.  Been there.

                In any case, VB, we shouldn't, either of us, be wasting any more time on this.

                Here's what I want you to know. We differ on how we see the events of the last week, and that's OK.  But we don't differ on how we're going to go FORWARD.  We're on the same side, friend.  That's all that matters in the end.

                Fingers crossed for both of us.  

                "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

                by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 05:05:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Excellent and Thank you... I appreciate your (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  StellaRay

                  understanding.

                  We are indeed on the same side. Stella, I get you on your being motivated for the win by feeling the "Wind under your wings". I coach sports and I come from a place that you always push no matter winning or losing. I believe "leaving it all on the court" it what is important.

                  "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                  by volleyboy1 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 09:52:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It's so interesting, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    volleyboy1

                    the guy thing here, vs. the gal thing. The sports thing has come up many times in the punditry and comments of the last week. And, I can't help but note that the majority of media punditry is white and male.

                    Which is not to say that women don't appreciate the rules of sports, most of us do, having watched a life time of it.

                    Even though for the great majority of women, an active participation in highly visible competitive sports has not been something we've exerienced, we do indeed get the whole sports analogy thing, and I for one, don't poo poo it.

                    However, we women have found different ways "to leave it all on the court."  We may express ourselves differently in this regard, but believe me, just because we may not react to that first debate in a sports coach like way, does not mean we don't have the same interest in leaving "it all on the court."

                    In any case, volleyboy1, I have enjoyed our conversation tonight, and I appreciate your willingness to participate in it.  That's what I come here for, and you delivered.

                    Sweet dreams.

                    "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

                    by StellaRay on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 10:15:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yeah... you know I wonder what (if anything) role (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      StellaRay

                      Gender plays in this. I coach women's sports and most of the girls that I coach all echo the thought of "leave it on the court", they all get that. BUT.... They don't vocalize it or discuss it in the same way as guys do (which is neither good nor bad... it just is).  

                      As for the media punditry you are absolutely right regarding the fact that most of it is White, and Male. It would be nice to see other voices there. I know how White Males see things (being one myself and that category being most of my friends), I would like to see other perspectives.

                      Anyway, nice "talking" with you here as well. I hope we will have much to celebrate in November with President Obama and at least a Democratic Senate.

                      "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

                      by volleyboy1 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 10:21:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        volleyboy1

                        "neither good nor bad...it just is."

                        And I too look forward to a victory in November, and I think we'll get one, senate too.  I'm going positive these days, because...what the hell. :)  

                        "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

                        by StellaRay on Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 03:34:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

  •  There is only so much we can do. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1, native, Victor Ward

    A lot of it has to come from the White House.

    The weak leak today bothered me on two levels.

    For those who missed it, unnamed sources admitted that two different Obamas attended (and missed) debate prep sessions. One was together, with it, and on his game. The other, well, he was the one who appeared on stage with Mittard.

    They said that he was exhausted, busy on his day job, and more. Just wait and see what the GO PEE-er GOons do with that information.

    It is a lame, feeble, effort to explain away his pathetic performance. It was also unnecessary, and most likely counter-productive. It only feeds even more disgusting memes and attacks on him by Rush, Sean, Glenn, Anne, Wittard, and others.

    On the second level, it says something about Obama. There are some things that have to be done first. Priorities are critical, especially when someone has such a complex and demanding job.

    The first priority that a man in Obama's position has is
    TO GET BLOODY RE-ELECTED! That means being prepared for each of three meet the meat press galas that 60+ MILLIONS US&Aers tuned in to watch.

    If one has hopes of being a good mother, the following prescription is mandatory:

    a. first you get pregnant. (Obama's initial election)
    b. Then, you attend pre-natal check ups, avoid too much this and that, do non of that, and keep your health and the fetus' health on a steady, even keel.  (Call this campaigning)
    c. Then you give birth to  . . . . something. Not many choices here. Either you have  a healthy bouncing baby brat, or it is stillborn. It really is all or nothing. There is no in-between. There is no second chance. There is no mulligan.
    d. Well, let's not talk about his new term until we get past c.

    Unfortunately, while every president is pulled from all directions on social, economic, pentagon, foreign, ecological, and other issues, (b.) is probably the most important thing on a first term president's  agenda. If he fails to do that properly, so what if he aces all the other tests that fall his way.

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 02:49:26 PM PDT

  •  The only poll that really matters (0+ / 0-)

    happens on November 6.

    "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into." - Oliver Hardy

    by native on Mon Oct 08, 2012 at 03:44:12 PM PDT

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