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Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney speaks during the first presidential debate with President Barack Obama (not pictured) in Denver October 3, 2012.     REUTERS/Jason Reed (UNITED STATES - Tags: POLITICS ELECTIONS USA PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TPX IM
Liar.
Jesus Christ. It is damn near impossible to keep up with Mitt Romney's lies.

On Tuesday, Romney went off script, in a meeting with the editorial board of the Des Moines Reigster, when he said:

There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda.
This of course was a departure from the many promises Romney has made to his party to oppose abortion, support a constitutional amendment banning all abortion, shut down Planned Parenthood, defund health care for women, give employers the right to deny health care to their employees, and appoint activist judges to the Supreme Court who will overturn Roe v. Wade.

His campaign quickly corrected him by saying that of course he would pursue an anti-woman agenda. And, according to TPM, the campaign also called up the anti-abortion advocacy groups to pinky swear that Romney, no matter what he says publicly, is still as virulently anti-woman as possible:

“No alarm bells here,” Tony Perkins, president of the anti-abortion Family Research Council, told TPM on Wednesday.

Perkins said the Romney campaign called him soon after Romney’s remarks were published by the Des Moines Register and assured him it didn’t represent a shift by Romney from his support for pro-life issues.

Well, that's awful thoughtful of the campaign. But, since this is Romney we're talking about, of course the campaign also dished out this whopper:
“As they explained it to me, it was from the way the question was asked,” Perkins said of Romney’s quote. He said the campaign told him the interviewer was “talking about economic issues” when the quote came up.
Suuuure. Romney was answering a question about "economic issues." If only there were some way to verify whether that was true. Oh wait! There is!
Do you intend to pursue any legislation specifically regarding abortion?
Yup, that was the question about "economic issues" that tripped Mitt up. Of course, this was the follow-up question to this original question about "economic issues":
Is there any legislation that you plan to actively pursue in regards to women's issues?
Romney's campaign is just flat-out lying now. To its own base. No wonder the anti-choicers don't really believe he's one of them.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:40 AM PDT.

Also republished by Abortion.

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Comment Preferences

  •  But now the anti-choicers believe (12+ / 0-)

    that victory is within Romney's grasp, so they don't care that he's lying...or at least going back on what he said during primary season.

  •  But there is no penalty for lying (10+ / 0-)

    Lying works. Romney's torrent of lies in the debate made him the winner -- and that's all the corporate media have to say about the debate today, that Romney's "dominating performance" transformed the race. He's been saying different things to different audiences, spouting absurd lies, and contradicting himself within the same paragraph during the entire campaign -- and now the polls are virtually tied and the media is rallying around his momentum.

    Lying works. It just flat works. So why stop?

  •  how do you debate a liar? (6+ / 0-)

    When the media will not even point it out!
    We have got to figure this one out and fast!

    •  You call him a liar. No niceties. (10+ / 0-)

      You  confront him with his contradictory past statements, quote directly.  Pull out a tape recorder and play back some audio.  Tell the moderator to fuck off (politely) if s/he tries to cut you off before you've made your point.

      And when you're done, tell Romney you're not going to let him get away with building a campaign on lies, and that you're fully prepared to repeat this every time he lies again on stage.

      Oh, and point out that the reason he lies is because the truth is his policy position is the same tried-and-false trickle down bullshit that got us in this mess in the first place.

      •  Lying works (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FiredUpInCA, vcmvo2, cybersaur

        Unfortunately the Repubs discovered that there is no down side to lying (ref: Goebbels).  It's very depressing.  Fact checks are irrelevant, since there are enough low-info voters out there who believe whoever sounds the most confidant.  And, the rest seems to have a short memory.

        There are no solved problems; there are only problems that are more or less solved. Henri Poincare

        by Bourbaki on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:59:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Joe Biden -- and next week Pres. Obama -- (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grollen, Womantrust

        have to figure out how to expose the lying without the ability to play tape.  

        Perhaps the campaign can have all the side-by-side clips posted on the website (immediately after the debate starts) so Biden and Obama can look right in the camera and say, "He's lying. The rules of these debates don't provide for demonstrations, but go to our website and see for yourself."

        Ryan and Romney have already tried to preempt this attack.  During the debate, Romney said to the President, with unbelievable chutzpah, "You're not entitled to your own facts."  And Ryan has also made comments about "the other side" lying.

        We must drive the special interests out of politics.… There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will neither be a short not an easy task, but it can be done. -- Teddy Roosevelt

        by NoMoJoe on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:28:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The interviewer should have done (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grollen, Womantrust

        that when Willard responded with his "I don't have any abortion legislation in my agenda" comment.

        THAT is the interviewers job.  DO YOUR FUCKING JOBS

      •  I don't know about a tape recorder (0+ / 0-)

        pretty sure props aren't allowed but I do think Obama should memorize some of Romney's quotes that he's likely to contradict at the debate.

        Obama can say : you said.. and I quote "Romney BS" ... were you lying then or are you lying now?

  •  Mitt "Gish" Romney (5+ / 0-)

    Lie so many times that you know the media and the public will just get exhausted trying to follow them all.

    If we got Mitt to be slightly less dishonest and gave him some personality he could pass as a used car salesman.

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:44:44 AM PDT

  •  Just Have To Hold Your Nose For Another Month (0+ / 0-)

    They're all just trying to keep the red-meat rabble quiet for a month so Romney can show off his sheep's clothing.

  •  He's not lying, read the exact wording (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Steve Magruder

    He isn't lying, he said he knows of no legislation that he would sign. Meaning none exists NOW. He didn't say he wouldn't ban abortion if the republican congress sends him new legislation, he said he was unawareof any.

    I wish people would read what he said in this very carefully worded statement and stop saying he's flip flopped or lying to his base. He will sign legislation, he just doesn't know of any now.

    O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

    by Kevanlove on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:44:54 AM PDT

  •  It's truly amazing (9+ / 0-)

    that people like Perkins are giving Romney a pass on this. It raises the idea that the Perkins operation is really not particularly concerned about overthrowing Roe v. Wade so much as it is about raking in dough. As long as the struggle is on, the money flows. The worst thing that could happen to Perkins would be the overthrow of Roe. Money would start drying up. That's the thing about America: It's all about money. And just at the point when you think it might not be all about money, that's the point at which it's most about money.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:46:15 AM PDT

    •  That's been apparent for 30+ years (5+ / 0-)
      It raises the idea that the Perkins operation is really not particularly concerned about overthrowing Roe v. Wade so much as it is about raking in dough.
      When the "Moral Majority" and similar groups tied their political ambitions to the Republican party in the late 70's and early 80's they realized power was more important than actually achieving their ultimate goal. If Roe v. Wade had been overturned they would've lost their best tool for getting donations and followers. Abortion would've turned into a "states' rights" issue and it probably would've remained that way to this day.

      If we got Mitt to be slightly less dishonest and gave him some personality he could pass as a used car salesman.

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:50:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Perkins has never cared about the unborn (10+ / 0-)

      He just knows that the issue of abortion is a very powerful emotional lever.  It's a lever to wrench open peoples pockets so money falls out.  It's a lever to wedge unpopular, lying Republicans into office.

      Thinking about voting Democratic?  Here, have you seen this picture of a dead baby?

      If he really, truly cared, he would support any policy to reduce unwanted pregnancies.  

      He would have been a Clinton supporter as abortions were down under Clinton.

      He would support sex ed and ubiquitous access to contraception.

      He would support an increase in the social safety net, so women felt they had other options.

      Issue after issue that has been proven to reduce the rates of abortion have been completely ignored by asshats like Perkins because at the end of the day, he is just a partisan, money grubbing worm.

    •  Abortion and Homosex is their "Bin Laden" -- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anne Elk, Womantrust

      their tangibly intangible, infallible bogeyman and Reason For War™ against anything and anyone they deem unholy.  Because lord knows these hate-clowns are the Fucking-A Authority on Teh Holy.  

      Works wonders with the unenlightened out there, but is growing quite tiresome amongst those who believe the Earth is just a wee bit older than 6000 years.

      Yet, instilling unreasonable fear of the unlikely into the hearts and minds of the unwitting remains an extremely strong motivator and effective donation driver.

      Just ask Wayne LaPierre.

      Frak John Galt... "Who Is Mitt Romney?"

      by here4tehbeer on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:33:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  he needs to be under oath first.... (0+ / 0-)

    because it seems as though unless he swears on a Mormonn Biuble, that nothing he says is true. and maybe not even then.

    and he needs to be asked whether he woudl ever veto anti-choice legislation sent ot him by congress. because if there were ever a GOp congress, the crazies woudl surely see to it that all kinds of anti-choice, anti-woman legislation was sent over.

    "I want us to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as she (Christina Taylor-Greene) imagined it." President Obama

    by guavaboy on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:47:13 AM PDT

  •  It's pretty clear what's going on (4+ / 0-)

    The lunatic fringe, faced with the certainty that the President was going to win re-election, gave Mitty permission to say anything he wants as long as he agrees to do anything they want should he win.

    "The test of our progress is not whether we add to the abundance of those who have much. It is whether we provide enough to those who have little. " --Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by jg6544 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:47:29 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, and he's not "familiar with" tax breaks for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, Msinformed, happymisanthropy

    sending companies overseas either, although he did it.

    There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:47:38 AM PDT

  •  Ted Kennedy Had Him Nailed (6+ / 0-)

    "Multiple Choice Mitt"

    "Nach dem Spiel ist vor dem Spiel." -Sepp Herberger

    by surfbird007 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:48:14 AM PDT

  •  He wants them to think he's lying to someone else: (7+ / 0-)

    He wants the base to think he's lying to the moderates. He wants the moderates to think he's lying to the base.  Will people be so offended by lying that they reject him?  No, because Mitt 2012 is so busy with the meme that everyone is a liar, people will be assuming that he's about the best they can expect.

    That's the plan.

    "The one big advantage to being a boring candidate is that you give the appearance of calm and stability. But, suddenly, Romney seemed to want to go for a piquant mélange of dull and hotheaded."-- Gail Collins

    by Inland on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:50:03 AM PDT

  •  Here's an ideal... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMoJoe, Womantrust, happymisanthropy

    The President should pivot every single question during the debate next week into a debate about Mitt debating Mitt.  It's the only way that there is a chance of calling Mitt on his bullshit will break through.  The media sure the hell is not going to do it.  Dems tried on the Sunday morning shows but every time they called Mitt out, the media just kept asking why didn't President Obama say anything during the debate.  Biden can set the table nicey tomorrrow night by hammering Ryan on all their blatent lies.  

  •  Mitt is full of crap (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, grollen

    We all know Mitt is full of crap.  The Prez needs to hammer home that Romney can't be trusted.  Take the George W Bush playbook VS John Kerry.  

    On A side note take a look at gallup.com  The unemployment rate has moved down to 7.3%.  This number was similar to the BLS # for September.  How will the righties freak out if the UI rate goes to 7.5% on November 2nd.  

    Unleash the Biden tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!

    •  Gallup (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Womantrust

      I meant to say the Gallup # of 7.8% was spot on and the end of September on Gallup.com  

      If the rate went down to 7.5% the weekend before the election would be a big deal the weekend before the election.  It will have Welsh, Trump & all the righties go nuts on CNBC/FOX.

  •  He's also lying to Iowans, not just his base. (6+ / 0-)

    When he tells his base he's vehemently anti-choice, that's a lie.

    When he tells the Des Moines Register that he has no plans to pursue an anti-choice agenda, that's a lie.

    Indeed it is a lie for him to state that he has any actually policy stance whatsoever, other than "Whatever my finger-to-the-wind tells me will get me elected."

    From what I can tell, Romney is 100% amoral and unprincipled.  He has absolutely no immutable stance on any issue of any significance.  It's almost frightening how prescient his campaign manager was in describing him as an Etch-A-Sketch.

    •  Maybe he DOES have no intention of pursuing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2, schnecke21, Womantrust

      anti-choice agenda. Maybe he is lying when he says he will pursue one.

      That's the thing about liars. You never know when they're telling the truth unless you already know what the truth is. Mitt is trying to be all things to all people in order to garner votes. That is not an admirable trait in a president. Hell, it's barely acceptable in a used car salesman. Excuse me- "Pre-enjoyed Auto Customer Service Associate".

      The only real difference is the quality of his clothing.

      I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

      by Gentle Giant on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:12:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mitt is the epitome of Norquist's ideal (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Womantrust

        candidate for the Republican Party. Someone with no moral compass of his own who has the ability to sign Republican legislation into law. Someone should ask Mittens about his professional relationship with ALEC and whether or not he agrees with some of the specific laws they've pushing for including the privatization of our schools and prisons, their anti-immigration and anti-choice laws and the myriad corporate welfare laws that they push for:

        http://www.politicususa.com/...

  •  Religious Strategy (0+ / 0-)

    A pro-democrat Super Pac might contemplate running pro-choice ads with Romney's own words in a few states that might still be in play.....Arizona, Missouri come to mind.....

    Where keeping Republicans home could give Democrats an upper-hand.

    Remember, these folks don't care much for Mitt Romney being Mormon.

    They are not voting for Romney, rather, against Obama.

    Keep them home and maybe Democrats gain a few more seats in Congress and/or Electoral College votes for Obama.

  •  The great "uniter"... (0+ / 0-)

    taking both sides of every issue, telling everyone what they want to hear.

    I'll bet a lot of women bamboozled by his debate performance think that he's pro-choice.

    Mitt Romney treats people like things. And he treats things - corporations - like people.

    by richardak on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:51:36 AM PDT

  •  he won't legislate an end to roe v. wade (6+ / 0-)

    he will appoint supreme court justices who will end it.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:53:27 AM PDT

  •  Liars can't keep up with their lies (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, vcmvo2

    they forget.   We have only one clue who this man is, and that is ..He is a liar.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:54:21 AM PDT

  •  This probably isn't a lie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, Womantrust

    Pursuing such an agenda is the job of congress and he didn't say he'd veto any anti-choice legislation that reaches his desk.

    The problem with this whole Moderate Mitt thing is that it really doesn't matter what he actually believes it's what the republicans in congress believe because it's their legislation that he'll be a rubber stamp for.

    The question is how do you squeeze this message into a 30 second sound bite?

  •  Any pro-lifer out there who believes Romney (0+ / 0-)

    will overturn Roe v. Wade is seriously kidding themselves.  Come on, how can you believe this guy is telling you the truth about this issue?  He's flip-flopped on it almost on a daily basis.  He's just telling you what you want to hear.  He doesn't mean it for a second.  How can you vote for this guy?  You know his religious views don't jibe with yours, either.  Don't kid yourself!  He's playing you for a fool!

    Best. President. Ever.

    by Little Lulu on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:57:41 AM PDT

  •  His base doesn't care if he's lying to them. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy

    As long as they like what they hear at the moment and he hasn't changed parties or color.

    I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

    by Gentle Giant on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:59:05 AM PDT

  •  Memo to American voters (9+ / 0-)

    Romney will cut his own taxes. That's the only thing you can count on. Everything else is negotiable and will be evaluated based on whether or not it advances the cause of Mitt Romney having more money.

    Romney economics: Feed our seed corn to the fattest pigs and trust them to poop out jobs.

    by blue aardvark on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 11:59:06 AM PDT

  •  Romney lies to everybody, all the time. nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMoJoe, vcmvo2, happymisanthropy

    Republicans are like alligators. All mouth and no ears.

    by Ohiodem1 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:01:26 PM PDT

  •  What Else is New? (0+ / 0-)

    Mitt lies when he speaks!

  •  Romney's base doesn't care if he lies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2

    Because they are all so goddamn racist that the only thing they care about is hurting Obama.  

  •  Isn't the lying incredible? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NoMoJoe, vcmvo2

    I'm appalled. The media sucks - the majority of them are giving Romney cover.
    I started writing any journalist who posts an email. Respectful & short gee I really like your column notes with a why don't you call a lie a lie question. And that it is really a disservice to those of us interested enough to learn about the candidates.  I am not saying what I really think - which is fuck you media fucks for promoting a liar.

  •  They don't care, they just want to win. We had (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vcmvo2, Womantrust

    all better understand this and GOTV or they succeed.  All they want to do is win.

  •  Naw He's Lying to Us & Women. He'll Appoint (4+ / 0-)

    anti-RVW judges and justices, and he'll sign any anti abortion law the congress sends him.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:08:44 PM PDT

  •  I think lying about women's issues be left to Ann (0+ / 0-)

    who is now confining her interest to horses' issues.
    Unzip Mitt!

  •  they don't care if he's lying (0+ / 0-)

    As someone here pointed out they'd vote for Bernie Saunders in a Che tea shirt if Bernie would punch Obama (the black guy) in the face on TV. note - not only the black guy but the President. My guess is the vitriol would be pretty bad with Hillary as President but less with Kerry given past Clinton derangement syndrome.

    This "conservative" / "liberal" thing has been a "there can be only one" cage match especially since 2010. Quotes because its more insane culture warriors vs urban dwellers or scared old white people vs amorphous mass of low information voters plus what's left of the liberals after Reagan et al decimated our ranks for the last 30 years.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:10:56 PM PDT

  •  We should feel sorry for Mitt (0+ / 0-)

    The poor guy has had to take so many positions - he's trying to win an election, for Pete's sake! - that how could he possibly be expected to remember what he really thinks?

  •  Romney = Scammer, Perkins = Scammer (5+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, gooderservice, poligirl, triv33, 2020adam
    Hidden by:
    Brit

    and I'll whisper this...DNC = bunch of scammers, RNC = scammers, too.

    But I think I hate the so-called "religious" types more because if there were an afterlife that they pretend to believe in, they'll be burning for eternity. Clearly they don't even believe that, though.

    •  True believers, especially the rabid ones, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shahryar, poligirl

      know that God forgives them their failures because they love God, and God, via Satan, will keep the people they hate in eternal agony because they don't know God well enough to love him enough or worship him in the right way which, by coincidence, is precisely the way the believers believe. So the true believer is forgiven while the true believer's enemies are damned. God is the center of their world, therefore they are the center of God's.

      I figured out by my teens that any god fit for the title would not have so many of the worst of our human failings in his own psychological makeup. Why worship someone who is so damned much like the asshole you have to put up with in your family/work/social circle...?!? Or like yourself, if you could be honest about it.

      And each sect of every faith is the ONLY one that gets it right. Sure.

      I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

      by Gentle Giant on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:23:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  X2 (1+ / 2-)
      Recommended by:
      raptavio
      Hidden by:
      Nada Lemming, gooderservice

      The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis and all the latest Leveson evidence out now!

      by Brit on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 04:24:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  that's a pretty lame excuse for an HR... (5+ / 0-)

        actually it's not any kind of excuse for an HR.

        you are abusing your ratings ability Brit. None of Shahryar's comments you've HRd are HRable...

        A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

        by poligirl on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 06:39:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Brit, you don't get to decide who is HOS (5+ / 0-)

        HOS qualifications are specifically reserved for outright trolls.

        Some posters create accounts at dkos strictly for the purpose of causing disruption. It is considered acceptable to hide all of the posts made by such people, even the ones that are not in and of themselves trollish. It should be emphasized, however, that this should not be done lightly. Before rating comments en masse, you should be very very sure that the author is really a troll, and not just a regular poster who is having a bad day. If there is any shadow of a doubt as to whether a person is a dedicated troll, you should refrain from mass-hiding their comments. To reiterate, this "hide on sight" approach should be used cautiously and rarely.
        http://www.dkosopedia.com/...

        Now prove to us that Shahrayer (sp?) created an account strictly for the purpose of causing disruption. If you cannot, you are violating the rules.

        I will save you the trouble, you cannot.

        Please refrain seeing as you are in the wrong here.

      •  Uprated (3+ / 0-)

        because factional donut wars are stupid.

        We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

        by raptavio on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 08:37:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Uprated because you CANNOT donut (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raptavio

        to retaliate against someone else HR'ing someone. It's actually HR abuse to HR someone in retaliation for anything, including what you think is their HR abuse.

        That's my understanding of this site's rules, and this hasn't changed for as long as I can remember.

        If you don't like Markos' rules, take them up with Markos.

        •  Your understanding of the site's rules is wrong. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gooderservice, poligirl, triv33

          From the FAQs:  

          It is begrudging community practice to respond to an undeserved troll rating by troll rating the ratings abuser, thus reducing their own level of "trustedness" and making them less able to abuse ratings in the future.
          Item 6.

          When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

          by PhilJD on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 08:49:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's a retaliatory HR (0+ / 0-)

            for HR'ing someone else without an agreement.

            The full quote lends more context:

            Do note give retaliatory troll ratings. If you get what you believe to be an undeserved troll rating, do not retaliate. Leave it to others to decide if the rating was abusive. It is begrudging community practice to respond to an undeserved troll rating by troll rating the ratings abuser, thus reducing their own level of "trustedness" and making them less able to abuse ratings in the future. But don't do it unless you are absolutely positive the original rating was abusive -- and I mean 100% positive. And never do it if you're the one that got troll rated. I repeat: do not troll rate fights that you yourself are in.
            This seems to be a "retaliatory troll rating." Also, why was the original rating abusive? I'm unclear, personally.

            I'm doing my best to help what looks to me like a crappy HR. Feel free to have it double-checked with the moderation here if you feel it's in error. I don't fully claim to even understand the original comment well enough to understand the response. I do see that the HR looks retaliatory, however.

            There's history there. Period.

            And that's all I have to say on this. Again, if I am off-base, I'll remove my uprate gladly. But I really don't believe that I am here. God, especially in the middle of an election when the stakes are high.

            •  so, Shahryar was participating in a diary... (4+ / 0-)

              and Brit came in out of the blue and HRd him twice, on non-HRable comments. he then posts a link to another diary that Brit did not like that Shahryar recced and tipped as his justification for it.

              and Brit did this to Shahryar in 2 different diaries tonight - gave 3 HRs for no really justifiable reason to someone who was participating in a diary.

              and so a few folks uprate against the bad HRs.

              and you have a problem with the upraters and not Brit swooping in out of the blue, throwing what look like either retaliatory or disagreement HRs, in 2 separate diaries? (which incidentally makes it look like Brit was hunting for Shahryar in the first place...)

              Really? so you're ok with anyone swooping in just to HR you out of the blue for a non-reason? good to know MO, good to know...

              A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

              by poligirl on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 10:23:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  That's not how retaliatory HR's work (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PhilJD, Nada Lemming, poligirl, triv33

          See what Hunter says:

          Retaliatory troll-ratings -- troll rating someone simply because they troll rated you -- is forbidden. Period. Do it with frequency and you stand the chance of getting your rating ability taken away.
          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          So if Shah hrd Brit, that would have met the definition of retaliation.

          •  Well I will remove my uprate (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rustbelt Dem, howarddream

            but I'm also going to report this thread because I am not following the initial ire, nor am I clear on what is what here, sorry.

            To the moderator then. I'm sure they'll love sorting you all out so much in the middle of an election.

            •  um.... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PhilJD, poligirl

              The election is tonight?  First I heard of it!  The TV coverage doesn't have a guy with maps or anything.  Are you sure its not next month?  

              ‎"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." --Frederick Douglass

              by Nada Lemming on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 09:12:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What are you talking about? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Rustbelt Dem, howarddream

                The election has already begun in so many ways, from voting to GOTV efforts to phonebanking to blogging to using social media to try to help to feet on the ground to THIS SITE and its narratives, fundraising, info campaigns, and down ballot races.

                Yes, the election has begun. Obviously.

                So if you're trying to win anything, try to win the election, not some petty fucking flame war that is about four hundred years old. One will get you the assurance of four more years of legalized abortion and the other will get you some tool who wants to wage war with Iran, right after he's taken out Big Bird. Pick your battles wisely.

                'night.

                •  thats what I would say to (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poligirl

                  The instigator, who started shit DURING THE ELECTION!,!,!,!111!

                  I plan on voting next month, on the appointed day, for Jim Carlson (so far) unless something happens to change my mind, like getting my house back, or Cheney and Jamie Dimon being dragged off to prison, or medicare for all....for starters.  But you have a great election tonight, and I hope your candidate wins.  

                  ‎"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." --Frederick Douglass

                  by Nada Lemming on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 09:27:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  So if this is not election night (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Nada Lemming, howarddream

                Admin will be happy to sort out this latest version (485.0?) of "Meta Shit Daily?"

                Come on, you know better than that.

                Yes Mitt, I do believe people are entitled to food.

                by Rustbelt Dem on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 09:25:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Brit, I Get Your Frustration w/ the Troll Enablers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kefauver
        Recommended by:don mikulecky, mickT, Shahryar, gooderservice, Nada Lemming
        It is sad that they will mindlessly up-rate and rec any troll diary or comment if it takes a few jabs at Obama, even if that troll is a zombie.

        But hide-rating random comments of theirs isn't going to make a difference and it's against site rules. Kos and other mods don't care about their ratings abuse and bad behavior. Hell, if Kos cared about the rules, one of those troll enablers would have been banned long ago for dragging old meta bullshit into one of JanF's diaries months ago.

        Don't engage in ratings abuse like they do and remove your hide-rates.

        I miss Speaker Pelosi :^(

        by howarddream on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:53:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's not just his base... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Womantrust

    the so-called spokesmen and women of the conservative movement have been shown up for what they are too.  Those "pure" supply side, family values, "we love America more than anybody" leaders of the movement have shown their true colors as well. Or at least the yellow stripe down their backs.  They've shown that they don't have an ideological bone in their mouth-controlled bodies.  Yes you, Joe Scarborough, you Ann, you Michelle, you Billo, and especially you Rush. If nothing else the debate has irrevocably shown you to be the simpering, mindless followers of your big corporation masters.  I never thought you had much character or integrity anyway. But it's nice to see you display it for all the world to see.

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:15:59 PM PDT

  •  Bloodhound. (0+ / 0-)

    As Romney wanders all over the freaking place, the only way to keep up with him is have a bloodhound track him.

    Hmmm. We should probably get a whole pack of them. All those circles and swirls and loop-de-doos might get one dog nauseous. We'll have to sub other bloodhounds into keep them fresh and stay on his trail.  

    Nice thing about hounds is that while they're generally very easy-going, they're also strong and  stubborn. No way that fool is going to convince a bloodhound to do something he doesn't want to, like climb into a crate on a car.

    © grover


    Join Muppets Against Mitt! Go to www.barackobama.com to join now. This message brought to you by the number 2012 and the letters B and O.

    by grover on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:16:05 PM PDT

  •  OMG - Actual journalism from (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    seasidesally

    ABC

    http://abcnews.go.com/...

    Here is a rundown of Romney's stances on all things abortion-related, from supporting Roe v. Wade in 1994 to disavowing it in 2011, to backing away from any legislative changes in 2012.
  •  Willard Romney is what exactly? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, Womantrust

    I'm no doctor, just curious. There are two possibilities:

    A Sociopath

    A sociopath is typically defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others.  A sociopath is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way).  Sociopaths have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others.  Sociopaths are often charming and charismatic, but they use their talented social skills in manipulative and self-centered ways.

    Compulsive Liar

    A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit.  Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions.  Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small.  For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right.  Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary.  For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (unlike sociopaths), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship.

    "Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?" - General Jack D. Ripper

    by wilder5121 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:16:54 PM PDT

  •  Romney lies (0+ / 0-)

    Abortion?  Heck, he is lying about cuts to Education, ending Medicare, pre-existing conditions covered under his health plan, more tax breaks to the rich and more tax breaks to big oil.  He said all year he would end regulations on banks and wall street....denied at the debate, ofcourse.

    Anyone notice he first mentioned his heath plan but in the next breath said he thought each State should have their own health plan?   What's up with that?  If he actually had a health plan, why would he say the States should have one?

    No wonder Obama didn't debate him.  He was waiting for Romney to appear on stage!

  •  No Change: Mitt is Anti-Choice (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheCrank

    Romney is anti-choice, believes life begins at conception, wishes the law of the land was different, and wants Roe V Wade overturned.

    As president, he would end funding to Planned Parenthood...

    This is all on his website.

  •  A reminder that R sticks his foot in mouth a lot (0+ / 0-)

    Lost in all the media praise for Romney's debate performance is that he's essentially the same guy he's been for the campaign, full of silver-foot-in-his-mouth moments: 47%, Libya statement, corporations are people, I like to fire people, even something minor like cookie-gate.  If you're prone to lying and you're undisciplined as a politician, those traits will come out.

    I, for one, don't think he can make it through the next four weeks without unforced errors and saying something that'll get him in trouble.  He may have thought that the abortion comment may be strategic, but it also shows he's getting greedy after the debate.  But unlike something like tax numbers which he can fudge and rationalize into something unrecognizable, reproductive rights is a clear-cut issue.

  •  i don't think romney really gives (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, rhauenstein, Womantrust

    two nanny-goat shits about the "social" issues, which is why he keeps flip-flopping. he doesn't care about abortion or marriage equality or contraception, at all, except as they might affect his ability to win public office. which would be ok, were it not for the fact that a non-give a shit romney would happily sign all those republican anti-everyone bills, precisely because he just doesn't care. the only thing mr. romney cares about is cold cash, money honey, and how he and his rich buds can take more of it away from everyone else.

  •  Don't Fool Yourself, He's Winking (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40

    I've had conservative friends and family tell me they expect him to pretend to be moderate on a number of issues for the general election, but that he'll follow the line the movement conservatives set for him after the election, because they control the purse strings and Congress.

    It's part of the sociopathy of the GOP and the man in particular.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:22:51 PM PDT

  •  Allow me to come unhinged for a brief moment (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, Womantrust, pointsoflight

    This guy is a total fucking liar who doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything that will stop him from becoming president.  He now knows that his base is going to give him a 100% free pass to lie and lie and lie and make it seem as if he's some moderate.  It's time to beak out the flip flopper strategy.  The "he's to conservative" one is not as effective because 70+ million people got to see a guy who seemed reasonable the other night.  It's actually a wayu to work both attacks at the same time.  

  •  Not funny, y'all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HillaryIsMyHomegirl, Womantrust

    If Mitt is elected, either by hook or by crook, he could be President for 8 years!  8 years of never knowing if we are being told the truth about anything.  

  •  Romney lies on a spectacular level (0+ / 0-)

    It's not even close to being believable the answer the campaign gave to Tony Perkins for why Mitt answered as he did. Are they all just credulous fools willing to buy anything Romney is selling?

    Seriously, these people are just stupid.

    Mitt is just something else, they don't trust him but they'll vote for him anyway!

    In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

    by vcmvo2 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 12:34:06 PM PDT

  •  The problem with Romney's lying is that world (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Womantrust

    leaders have no respect for that kind of thing.  If he does it to Americans how can those he would have to negotiate with trust anything he says either.

    Obama is respected.
    Romney is not trusted and is not deserving of respect. Neither would the country be - if he were president.

  •  mendacious Mitt (0+ / 0-)

    doesn't need an agenda - economic or otherwise

    all he has to do is rubber stamp every piece of winger garbage that crosses his desk after he sails into the Oval Office on a stream of pure BS

    time to take his paddle away

    "a lie that can no longer be challenged becomes a form of madness" -Debord

    by grollen on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 02:01:38 PM PDT

  •  Now ! One Lifetime Only ! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Womantrust

    Self-Determined Silly-Putty !

    the perfect candidate for the PNAC tubbers.
    goes any way the wind blows, all the time, every day.
    endangers its own campaign with thrilling reckless abandon, while signing and unsigning simultaneous statements admitting and denying simple facts.

    a wonder of nature seldom seen outside Bedlam.

    a real woo-hoo of woo.
    a tsunami of slime.

    with two debates lining up, how fast can it be deconstructed to an elemental level, thus avoiding the ultimate awareness of self-nothingness ?

    such a phenomena only CALIGULA knew.

    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 02:41:36 PM PDT

  •  It's not about the "legislation" (0+ / 0-)

    It's about regulations, the Mexico City rule (do I have that right?), and the Supreme Court. Period.

    E Pluribus Unum does NOT mean "every man for himself"

    by Daddy Love on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 03:46:03 PM PDT

  •  No, he's lying on behalf of his base. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Womantrust

    They know he's lying in order to get independents and they don't care. He's lying to low information undecided voters, not to his base. His base knows who he will be answering to should he win.

    Money doesn't talk it swears.

    by Coss on Wed Oct 10, 2012 at 05:59:39 PM PDT

  •  If I were an undecided, I would feel irritated (0+ / 0-)

    either way by Romney's flip-flopping on this. Everyone has some sort of view on abortion. Usually these views aren't the sort which people appreciate being exploited for political expediency.

    Frankly, if you're anti-choice, why trust Romney?

    And if you're pro-choice, why trust Romney?

    He's out-of-control with the Just Saying Anything schtick. Voters do see through that kind of thing.

  •  I think there may be reason to this madness (0+ / 0-)

    I beginning to think the Romney campaign has adopted a strategy of deliberately flip flopping. Think about it. Romney was boxed in because of the extreme positions he had to take to get the nomination. There's no way he could win the presidency with those positions. So what do they do? They intentionally muddy the waters so that voters don't know what to believe.

    When republicans see him move to the center at this late stage of the game, they'll just assume he's doing it to win, but would move back to the right as president.

    When undecideds and independents see him flip flop, they think that maybe he really is more moderate, like he was as Governor, and just took positions he didn't believe in to get the nomination, but would actually govern as a moderate.

    By muddying the waters, he can potentially stay in the game and get voters to keep considering, when they wouldn't otherwise do so if he either kept his original position, or clearly abandoned it for a new one.

    I think the flip flopping is actually deliberate and strategic.

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