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Paul Ryan loves Canada so much he wants their tax structure! Does that mean he also supports  Canada's public health care system?

During the  vice presidential debate, Paul Ryan made claims about how The Obama administration would raise taxes on small businesses. He stated  "President Obama thinks that the government ought to be able to take as much as 44.8 percent of a small business' income," and later , "This one tax would actually tax about 53 percent of small-business income."

Vice President Biden ably and accurately refuted Ryan by stating that  "97 percent of the small businesses of America pay less,  make less than $250,000," and later, "Let me tell you who some of those other small businesses are: hedge funds that make 600 million - $800 million a year. That's what they count as small business ."
and later,  "Ninety-seven percent of the small businesses make less than $250,000 a year," he emphasized. "(The Obama tax plan) doesn't tax 97 percent of the American businesses, (specifically)  small businesses,"

though Biden was correct and forceful in his response he did not directly counter the 44-53% claims.

During the exchange Ryan also pointed to Canada, 'just across the water, which has a  much lower small business tax rate , claiming that Canada recently  lowered their rate  to 15%". First the facts: Canada does have a lower across the board  corporate rate ,but they also have additional taxes which are levied on businesses which are not included in that 15 %. Also , our system of deductions drastically lowers our higher initial corporate rate, so comparing the two is apples and oranges.
More after the beep...

In addition, as Biden and Ryan both alluded too , most small businesses  such as sole proprietors, use the individual rates , which has nothing to do with corporate rates . Small businesses have indeed struggled in recent years, but the Romney /Ryan tax plan has  nothing for these small businesses. I can tell you that deductions play heavily into the final amount of taxes  businesses pay, from the smallest business to the largest. Prime example? remember Enron and it's ZERO tax liability?Small businesses need customers, and believe me ,those customers won't come from the giant corporations Romney /Ryan wants to help.
Anyway Ryan's  comparing our system directly to that of another country just does not wash.

However , two thoughts struck me.

1. We need to be able to directly  derail that '44%' compared to '15%' for small business claim.

2. Paul Ryan actually made his case by saying 'See what Canada does? We should be like Canada!" OK. How many times have libs been bashed for trying to use Canada's health care system as an model? how many times have we pointed to  models from  other nations (France, Great Britain, Scandinavia, etc. ) and been ridiculed as Unamerican?
and here Ryan  scurried across the border to  cover for his party's giveaway tax ideas.

here's data on the corporate tax points  
http://www.politifact.com/...

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Comment Preferences

  •  Putting aside partnerships, Canada doesn't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile, Bear, VClib

    have pass-through taxation for corporations.  So in order to reach the individual, it gets taxed at the corporate level (25%), and then taxed again at the individual level.  There is preferential treatment in order to mitigate against double taxation, so the effective rate on the dividend to the individual winds up at around 15%.  So the all-in tax rate winds up being around 40% (not sure if that individual rate of 15% includes the province-level rate; I guess not, so the rate, would probably be closer to 50%)

  •  I run a small business, but I am not a (0+ / 0-)

    tax wizard..the problem with most of us is  the blizzard of numbers makes us go numb in a hurry.
    That's why leading with brazen, simple numbers works for Romney Ryan.. all of the republicans i know latch on to the GOP tax propaganda  with all the vigor and tenacity of a honey badger.
    buried under the bold statements is a different reality.

  •  Overall for a middle class person (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile

    tax rates between Canada and USA are roughly comparable. Income taxes and business taxes might be a little bit less here, but the overall tax take of the government is about as much relative to GNP. The bigger difference is in the public spending pattern. But we get total health care and cheap university education. You get massive military spending (where our military spending is mostly based on defending our territory adequately while perhaps assuming that most putative invaders would probably freeze to death in the winter).

    There is a surtax for health care on higher income earners in Ontario (not sure about elsewhere) -- I pay it happily. There also is a federal sales tax as well as provincial sales taxes. These things likely explain the lower rates on some kinds of taxes.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Mon Oct 15, 2012 at 09:49:45 AM PDT

  •  their omission of other tax info continues as well (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile

    Canada has the GST unifies sales tax which combines a federal and provincial rate.  When I had lunch up in Guelph a few weeks ago it cost thirteen percent.  Apparently in Nova Scotia it is 15 percent.  Very regressive taxation--is that what Ryan supports?  (HINT- yes.)

  •  thanks neighbors to the north for (0+ / 0-)

    providing the perspective and info on your system! it really helps

  •  Holy shit, this should be easy to debunk: (0+ / 0-)
    Paul Ryan loves Canada so much
    with the proverbial two words:

    Celine Dion

    Yup, that's a irrefutable dissing of our northern neighbors!

  •  Biden wasn't correct or forceful. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile

    We need to stop talking about this on Republican terms.  They are talking about individual income tax rates as if they are business tax rates.  They aren't.

    They are referring to income that someone can take from his small business, and like to make the argument that this takes money from hiring people.  Businesses hire when it is in their best interest, i.e. when they can profit from it.  No sensible person will choose to harm his business by not hiring someone because his marginal tax rate is slightly higher.

    What they are saying is that certain people shouldn't pay the same tax rate as others, depending on their job classification.  Should we make the same argument for military, teachers, first responders?  

    Your request has bad syntax or is inherently impossible to satisfy. --httpd_err400form

    by Bob Novak Douchebag of Liberty on Mon Oct 15, 2012 at 12:12:15 PM PDT

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