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I deleted my previous diary because I realized I am too ignorant on the subject to have written a diary on it.  It was a knee-jerk reaction to commercials for testosterone gel similar to Viagra commercials, and others, that seem to feature stereotypical images of maleness and portray the drug in a question as a way for men to be more like the men in those images.  Having two daughters of pre-pubescent age, the idea that a drug intended to allow men to meet the definition of maleness in those images, while possibly sending my daughters into puberty early just from casual contact with a male using the drug, inspired a reaction that was shallow and literally ignorant of many of the facts.

I will say that the warning doesn't say that it's a hypothetical situation,  but that children have shown signs of early puberty after coming into contact with those using the gel.  It has happened, to someone's child, with all the implications of what that means.  But, I shouldn't have attempted to comment on any aspect of that balance, overall, since I clearly don't know very many of the facts.

So........ sorry for the waste of time, and sorry for any offense.  Forgive or forget.... or both!  I will learn more about something before posting next time.  All the best......

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (25+ / 0-)

    "The law of love will work, just as the law of gravitation will work, whether we accept it or not...." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by waydownsouth on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 05:03:09 PM PDT

  •  we all jump the gun sometimes (8+ / 0-)

    look into it for us and let us know what the scoop is if there is a real concern...maybe nov 7th??

    •  There is no "casual contact" danger from (0+ / 0-)

      Androgel or whatever this diarist is talking about.

      You rub the gel into your skin where it is absorbed.  If you were to grab up an unclothed child in your arms before it dries, or within a short time after it drying - on your ARMS - then the gel could rub off onto the child's skin and be absorbed.

      But a one-time contact isn't going to do anything.  It would have to be repeated exposure.

      And casual contact, like shaking someone's hand or a clothed child being picked up by a clothed person hours after the gel has dried?  No issue.  Brushing against someone in a crowded hallway?  ZERO chance of any issues.  

      What other casual contact is common in today's excessively paranoid world?  Particularly with strangers - practically none to zero!  Unintentional skin to skin contact with strangers within minutes of applying the gel?  Again, so close to zero it cannot be measured.  

      This sounds like some sort of crazy over reaction.  I didn't see the first diary but it sounds pretty off-base from this apology diary.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:38:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nice apology; I did not read the original (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue, David54, Xapulin, Joy of Fishes

    diary, but I am a fan of a heart-felt apology.  I once read a fictional account ("My Year of Eating Meats" maybe?) of a female child exposed to large amounts of hormones at her parents cow farm; it was gruesome.

    ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad

    by slowbutsure on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 05:36:08 PM PDT

  •  Those commercials scare me, too (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo, suesue, Xapulin, Joy of Fishes

    The announcer does say there that is a possible side effect. And it is freaky to consider.

  •  I saw the original diary (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo, suesue, Xapulin, Joy of Fishes, KenBee

    I thought your heart was in the right place but you were stumbling for a way to express it. Maybe being mad as hell at the double standard for men and women had something to do with that. But this is definitely a class act when it comes to apologies.

    Every time Romney and Republicans mention Benghazi it proves they are the sort of opportunists that would mine for gold in a graveyard.

    by ontheleftcoast on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:09:57 PM PDT

    •  It was only a double standard on this medication (4+ / 0-)

      if you thought Testosterone use was only for making someone more macho. Being a patient who relies on T to be , for all practical purposes, human, it's not that kind of medication.

      I use the example of denying Viagra to a single man, for moral purposes, to point out the ethical challenge presented by Plan B and OCs, and how there tends to be a double standard.
      I also use the example of a pharmacist who asks for belief in evolution, and only dispenses Penicillin G or E-mycin to non evolution believers, since if there is no evolution, those will treat ANY bacterial infection.

      WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

      by IARXPHD on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:36:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I saw your earlier diary, (5+ / 0-)

    and was kinda feeling the way you were...
    until i read some of the comments from folks who
    seemed to know what they were talking about.

    We live and learn, eh?

    I commend you for this follow-up diary--
    it takes some courage to admit our mistakes and ask
    for forgiveness, and you've handled this with class,
    and grace.   Thanks for that.

  •  you may want to correct the spelling in your title (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo

    I do share your concerns about children and other people being exposed to second-hand pharmaceuticals.

  •  Don't be super hard on yourself. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo, suesue, bakeneko, YucatanMan

    Zeus knows that I've spouted off on here plenty of times.

    In terms of side effects, if it has ever happened OR COULD happen, in terms of new use of an older  medication, it has to be in the warnings.

    Waydown, if you ever want the low down on a medication, give me a holler, I'm a PhD pharmacist professor with 20 years of patient practice experience. I'm kind of a rare bird, I'm very into my profession, but am very much for limiting medication usage to as little as possible, and only if there is good evidence for effectiveness.

    WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

    by IARXPHD on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:32:32 PM PDT

    •  Hey! Is that a joke about the quality of his (0+ / 0-)

      tumescence, rigidity or lack thereof?  How. Dare. You.

      heh

      The GOP says you have to have an ID to vote, but $ Millionaire donors should remain anonymous?

      by JVolvo on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:36:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No joke intended whatsoever. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JVolvo

        This is a serious subject for me, I almost lost my chance at a PhD and my family over lack of natural testosterone production.

        WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

        by IARXPHD on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:44:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know, it was just too easy to see the pun in (3+ / 0-)

          your subject line.  No offense intended.

          I'm curious about your experience, and I realize - as do you, I'm sure - that we're typing in front of the whole internet right now (even in a little-read thread).  So I can just stay curious if you think that's best for you.

          Thanks.

          The GOP says you have to have an ID to vote, but $ Millionaire donors should remain anonymous?

          by JVolvo on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:50:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  OH, OK. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bakeneko, JVolvo, YucatanMan, KenBee, blueoasis

            I'm a medical educator with a patient experience, I'm not shy.

            In my 3rd year of graduate school I was having problems concentrating, and started to be super tired all the time. I thought it was from being 45 doing something that tires out 25 year olds. Then I woke up in the middle of the night with pain under my left nipple, and realized I was getting sort of puffy in that area. I also was starting to have some intimacy issues, again I put it down to being 45.  My wife wasn't happy, the say the least. I'm not working, in school, and now one of the one free activities wasn't possible very often.
            But it got worse, and I was losing muscle mass as well.
            So I went to my internist, who did an exam and we talked about what might be up. Of course I focused on Brain tumor, and left shaking in fear.
            I was able to get an MRI the next day, and was relieved it wasn't a tumor. My labs came back negative for a constellation of issues, but the bottom line was that I had a T level of zero.
            Being in the profession, I researched the treatment options and found that topical was really the only effective option.
            Things are much better, within 2 months, life as back to pretty much normal. That was 7 yrs ago.

            WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

            by IARXPHD on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 07:05:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I had the unfortunate circumstance to be (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueoasis, IARXPHD

            discovered without any thyroid function at all following an emergency appendectomy.  A few weeks later, I wasn't healing at the rate the surgeon expected so they did an array of tests.  Found a thyroid function of zero.

            So that explained all the fogginess, fatigue, weakness and chills at just a few years over age 30.

            They "tuned me up" with varying levels of thyroid medication, adjusting doses, taking tests, repeat.  And I almost got back up to where I thought I was "before" as far as mental sharpness and energy, etc.

            I had had a thyroid function at some point, because I grew to be over 6 feet tall.

            But something was always missing. Eventually, in another city, another doctor worked with my thyroid medications and levels.  But I still was a bit... lacking in energy, focus, ways that are hard to explain.

            He did a testosterone level and it was very low.  At first there were no topical gels. Only injections. Ouch and once a week to the doctor's office was a major annoyance. And the levels were never right, and too much can make you depressed, believe it or not. The swinging levels from weekly injections give you mood swings.  Not fun.

            Then there were patches. Turned out I was allergic to something in the patches and got huge red spots on my arms.  

            Then the gels came out.  Thank goodness. Simply rub it in and life is better. Seriously.  The gel doesn't make you superman.  It just makes you "normal."  And honestly, people on a normal level of testosterone are less aggressive and happier than roid ragers where it is sky high OR people where it is so low they are irritable.

            The chances of "contaminating" someone with gel rubbed into your skin and under your clothing when you go out into public is practically zilch.  

            The diarist seems to have had a panic attack in the previous diary which I didn't see.

            His little girls are NOT going to turn into men simply because the kindly dentist who uses testosterone gel hands them a pack of sugarless gum.  

            It takes skin to skin contact over time and repeated regular exposures to raise someone's level.  That's why you apply it after getting out of bed in the morning and not before going to bed at night (if someone else sleeps with you in your bed and pajamas are not involved).  :-)  

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:56:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I had the same issue with the patches. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              YucatanMan

              In fact, had it with the gel, too. I could apply the gel and write my name with it, and in an hour, have a hive spelling out my name. Turns out both use ethanol and I have some rare condition where I have a delayed hypersensitivity reaction to ethanol that is left on my skin.

              I use these little wafers I put on my gum, they work great.

              WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

              by IARXPHD on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 07:51:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  "Knowing" JVolvo, I know he meant well and meant (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IARXPHD

          funny.  :-)  

          The subject line is a little funny considering the topic.

          What I find odd, and maybe you can help me (?), are the warnings for erections lasting more than 4 hours on all those viagra and cialis commercials.  I believe it may be an actually possible, but rare, side-effect, but is it my imagination or does the commercial get a bit louder and slower at that point so that everyone hears "erection lasting over 4 hours" clearly?

          I think they're using a rare side effect as a selling point. Really.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:44:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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