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This is a first diary, so be forgiving, as are some users on DU are not.  

I just had the rather troubling experience on DU and being called a troll, in a rather obscenely worded message.  In my post, I was pointing out my opinion that pushing the Romney alleged perjury right  now would be rather short sided and possibly damaging due to Clinton's issues of lying under oath, especially with being such a visible Obama supporter.  I was massively attacked for this, and called a troll....totally ignoring  all my other post referring to Romney as The Stench, and being fairly anti-Republican.  I was rather shocked.  I got attacked here on Kos recently, and unfortunately caught myself up in the argument, the  gist of which I don't remember, and got warned.  But the other user turned out to be a troublemaker and got banned,  and, oddly enough, he wound up attacking me on an unrelated to the above post or my exchange with him on DU.  He was banned there too.  Our screen names were the same so that's ho he got me.  Is this common place?  I didn't think I have to tiptoe on Kos or DU, if my opinion may not be entirely within the collective thought.  I felt like I was on  redstate or something.  I try to keep it level, and  explain any snark, if it's not obvious, and even then.  Look at my posts.  I enjoy Kos, and to an extent  DU.....I don't really want to stop, but I don't need these unprovoked attacks by my own side in my life right  now.  Any  feedback would be welcome.

As for the  Clinton  thing....if someone could nicely explain why my belief  in Clinton's lie under oath is either not true, or worth focusing on right now, due to Romney's alleged lying under oath, I'd appreciate it.  I'm neither anti-Clinton, or pro Republican.
I was wary of Obama at first, but He  really is a good person, as is Bill, regardless of the affair.  Anyway, I hope to hear some feedback, as this is my first time  really diving into politcal discussions, and  did not expect  to get blindsided by  some on the Left.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

    by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:19:43 PM PDT

  •  As a longtime member of DU... (5+ / 0-)

    I apologize for the behavior of others there. I don't agree with you about the perjury thing -- the Clinton thing is very old news -- but they should not have treated you badly for expressing that opinion. I'm afraid that there is some knee-jerk stuff going on there (and everywhere!) regarding concern trolls. I myself have been accused of being one, and it's not pleasant. That's not an excuse, I'm just trying to explain. DU does need to behave a bit better, I'm afraid.

    •  If I'm wrong (0+ / 0-)

      I want to know what I'm am wrong about with Clinton.  Seriously, I want to know.  Did he or did he not lie under oath?  I guess it did sound a little on  the  concern troll side, but  I  just felt it was not in out best interests to be focusing on lying under oath, and  starting up the whole Clinton-Lewinsky thing at the current time.

      I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:42:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clinton lied under oath (3+ / 0-)

        In a prosecution that should never have happened in the first place.

        It is old news.

        The Romney Perjury issue fits the narrative that is working against Romney both in that he is rich and out of touch and that he is Anti-woman.

        I haven't been following the story, so I don't know how solid the accusation is.  IMHO it had better be very solid before anyone runs with it, lest it bakfire, but if it is solid, I don't think the Clinton thing will distract.

        Numbers are like people . . . Torture them enough and they'll tell you anything.

        by Actuary4Change on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:48:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I totally agree with that. (0+ / 0-)

          I agree that he should not have be asked about his  private business, and  that most straight men would lie, even under  oath  about a potential damaging affair.  And yes, run with this if it is sold, which I don't see as yet.   If  this issue was brought up, the RW will use the Clinton  affair as a weapon, logic be damned.  This election makes me very nervous, considering what's at stake.

          What couldn't I have gotten  a response  like this a DU?

          I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

          by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:53:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The thing about Clinton's lie was (0+ / 0-)

        it was not material to the issue being deposed and it was not truly a trial and deposition that should have been going forward regardless.

        In the Romney case, if it happens to be true (that is an important if), his lie would be misleading the court about the precise matter that he was called about.

        Think of it this way: you're called to testify about the color of a car used in a crime. You know it was blue and you happened to be walking by because you were on your way to have sex with your mistress.

        You're asked about the color of the car and why you happened to be on the scene.

        If you testify that the car was red because you know your buddy committed the crime and you want to get him off, that changes the whole tenor of the case.

        If you testify that you were walking to the coffee shop instead of going to see your mistress, that is also perjury, but it's not going to affect the investigation or the trial particularly.

        Both are perjury but the repercussions of the offense are substantially different.

        In the Clinton case, the deposition was designed for the purpose of creating his perjury about a sexual encounter.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 06:01:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I got banned from DU during the Obamacare fights. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberalagogo, divineorder

    I was a heavy poster there, but I haven't really missed it.

  •  I'll leave the meat of the matter to others (5+ / 0-)

    'cause I'm busy.

    But remember two things:

    - Left-leaning sites have WAY better discourse than right-leaning sites.
    - That's a REALLY low bar, so don't expect sunshine and daisies.

    Never attribute to malice what is owed to ignorance or honest disagreement.

    by ConfusedSkyes on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:33:40 PM PDT

  •  I just lurk at DU (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chicago minx, liberalagogo, Catkin

    haven't signed up.  I find the language there a little too rough for me.

    At least here on Kos, people are called out for language in the titles.

    There is a way to politely say, "I don't agree with you" without resorting to vile name calling.  That stuff I cannot handle.

    Growing old is inevitable...Growing up is purely optional

    by grannycarol on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:35:44 PM PDT

  •  I left DU around 2004, only posted a few times (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberalagogo, jec, divineorder

    in 2008, and really haven't gone back except to lurk. I used to post there very regularly during the Bush years.

  •  Thanks so far guys/gals (0+ / 0-)

    I was shocked, as my posts on  DU have rather PG.   The other post was where I called gay Repubs "garbage" which was pretty  much  the feeling of the forum, then I got hit with  this post from a former Kos, who got banned partly because of me bringing him  to the  mods' attention, calling  me a motherf**ker.  This other post was just my opinion, which  must have come off as "concern"  but I guess I didn't see it that way.  Then this major obscene  attack came.  I've become a lot more wary of DU now.

    I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

    by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:48:31 PM PDT

  •  Clinton (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberalagogo, democrattotheend

    You're not wrong because of the Clinton-Lewinsky thing.  It's short-sighted because this is a non-issue.  This is the same type of non-issue as Wright or Ayers that we blast the RW fearmongers of over-hyping that generally backfire badly because people generally don't want petty negative crap.

    •  I only mention it (0+ / 0-)

      as I believe it would be what the response would be if this case became  a national focus.  Mainly BEFORE the election.  After an Obama win, I could not care less about any focus it get.  In fact I'd prefer it get it.  It's just the timing  that scares me, given  the  media, and the general populace that my faith is pretty shaky in.

      I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 03:58:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's the difference (4+ / 0-)

    Romney's lie, if the stories are true, cheated a woman out of her fair share of marital property -- there was a victim, and not only that but goes to his integrity as a business person which has not so far been questioned -- has been allowed to say he had no control despite being CEO, etc and also credibility of partner denials.  We all know he's a liar but has never been shown to have lied in professional context.

    •  I realize that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      yella dawg, democrattotheend

      it's mainly the  timing, as this is only an "alleged" lie, although, it's pretty much certain he did.  Once the actual proof or at least hard evidence  is  in, then  go for his  throat.  Like I said before, this election has  me very nervous.

      I also got flamed for mentioning  that Hillary was hurt by this, but I agree Bill's actions with the affair were not criminal.

      I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:02:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You're disparaging DU (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Scandalous One, bluedust

    because some of its members didn't agree with you that Romney's lying is off limits?

    This is worth a diary?

    •  See, you're putting words in my mouth (0+ / 0-)

      And not reading my entire post.

      I never  said ANYTHING about putting his lying off limits, nor am I disparaging  DU.

      I am surprised at the viciousness of said attacks, and lack of any kind of discourse.

      But you  are choosing  not to go there, so yes,  your very post makes this "worth a diary".

      I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:08:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that wasn't it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Probably something to do with "being called a troll, in a rather obscenely worded message." Many people aren't used to that. Why should they be?

      In DK4, there's nothing wrong with a diary that asks a few honest questions.

      Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:09:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

        Although, from these posts, I can see how it might seem to look like concern trolling.  I get that.  It's not, though.  I've no problem  with going after this, once it's firm and Obama is securely ensconced in the  White House.

        I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

        by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:14:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's pointless waiting until after the election (0+ / 0-)

          The purpose is to point out Romney's dishonesty, which disqualifies him as president. Hiding it until after the election only benefits him. Wait until after November, and Romney is either yesterday's man, whom no-one cares about, or he's the president, in which case everyone would look like fools for saying "we knew he screwed a woman out of money to help a friend, and lied about it, but we agreed among ourselves to keep quiet about it".

      •  Regardless, this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Scandalous One

        is hardly the first time this has happened on the Internet. It happens here too. It's broad brush. It's hardly worth a diary titled: Democratic Underground.

        •  All your posts (0+ / 0-)

          are totally worth this being  a diary,  Your dismissal of my opinion about what happened on  Democratic Underground, hence the title, are exactly why this diary need posting.  There is no broad brush.  I was very careful to say "some users".  And in no place did I blame DU.  You feelings are noted, but if I just dismissed your posts with a "not worth it" would YOU feel?

          I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

          by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:20:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  People will disagree with you on the Internet (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Scandalous One

            It's time to get used to that.

            Your diary is titled Democratic Underground, and it's focused on being banned. Some users didn't ban you. The board has rules.  

            •  It's not the disagreement..... (0+ / 0-)

              Read the's the attack.

              It's focus has nothing to do with being  banned.  The only one that was banned was some user from KOS that got banned due  his behavior on  here that I, by accident, brought to light.

              Where are you getting your information...certainly not from  my diary.

              Regardless, we're never going  to agree...that's fine, I never attacked you or DU, although you are rather dismissive of me.  That's fine  too.

              But I really see no progress to be  made in any discussion  with you.  I agree to disagree, and be  done  with it.

              Sorry you don't like the  diary, but  unless it violates  some  of the site rules, it stays.

              I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

              by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:30:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "I felt like I was on redstate or something." (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Scandalous One

                You appear to be very familiar with the Internet blogs and forums.

                So this diary expressing shock seems a bit much. No one is asking you to remove your diary. I'm simply questioning the purpose.

                Yeah, we can agree to disagree.

                •  I needed to get something out (0+ / 0-)

                  And thought this would be a good place to have a decent discussion without the vicious attacks.  And that is seems to go on even between people on the Left.  If they merely disagreed with me, this would have required no diary.  Your dismissal of it, which I still don't get, shows something like this needs posting.  If you don't care for the  diary contents...why are you reading it?  I've had disagreements with like-minded  people on  here (like now) and other sites, but the level of viciousness was a little hard to take.  It seems you've appointed yourself as what it diary -worthy and what is not.  The other posters on here don't seem  to have that issue.  Why do you?  It's rhetorical.  I have an art show to go to this weekend, I don't need any more aggravation.  Thanks.  We'll leave this at this.

                  I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

                  by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 04:54:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  meta opinions are allowed, too (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    Especially lots of old-timers (such as me, although I'm obviously not a hard-core old-timer) tend to have strong opinions about what is diary-worthy. Some opinions are more constructive than others, but there is something to be learned from almost all of them.

                    Or maybe not. Maybe I'm just in a Pollyanna sort of mood. Whatever. Anyway, try not to get carried away in the meta.

                    Election protection: there's an app for that! -- and a toll-free hotline: 866-OUR-VOTE
                    Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

                    by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:02:43 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I thought about it (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      (See below post)
                      And I can see a little self centeredness in the diary.  But I needed to get it out, and didn't force anyone to respond.  I appreciate the feedback.  There is something to be learned for every diary, yes.  Thank you.

                      I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

                      by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:19:19 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Ya know (0+ / 0-)

                  I didn't want to leave it at that (above response).

                  I just went back to DU, and  went  to a forum about not using  fat bashing or trans-bashing (mainly Christie and Coulter) the right wing.  

                  Now I've only been on DU about a month and a half as a member, and  generally it was pleasant.  But this forum devolved into Dems at each other's throats.  

                  Is it that common place there?  Any viciousness I've ever experienced, even on HP was of the Right/Left variety.  There was once  here, but it was partially  my fault for responding inappropriately.  That was the person that got banned.  Which I felt bad about until I was informed  of his history, and the  above  mentioned "motherf**ker" remark.

                  Anyway when  I  saw that really bad Left/Left bashing there it gave  me some pause.  This diary wasn't whining about being  disagreed with,  as much as the shock of the viciousness of Left/Left  bashing.  I honestly never  really experienced it, much less called a troll by like-minded people.  I wanted  a forum  where I could  be informed decently of my thoughts  about Clinton and  the Romney issue.   I got that.  But yes, apparently it does seem rather commonplace.  But I still stand by my diary, as I needed it, and did not force people to read it.  If no one  had, after a period, I would have deleted it.  But I got some good feedback.

                  I'm not crazy, I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years!

                  by liberalagogo on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:14:35 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I wondered if I should add my 2 cents here (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Scioto, liberalagogo

                    and decided it may help you feel better.  Honey I quit and then got T/S over there in 05 because I moderated a vet forum on a conservative blog.  ( Now granted I got a little angry when I was accused of being a troll to the tune of 5 days of people jumping on the band wagon and piling on for days on end until Skinner had to stop it.
                    I pulled an Obama and went for the middle to reach out and got my hands chewed off by both sides.  

                    All said and done, I never asked to go back, never desired to go back and found out recently DU was actually following me on Twitter which is kewl ..I accepted the request.     I never stopped posting at Smirking Chimp but did ditch the conservative site when I started working the Obama campaign.   It was hard to do just to be there but I am non partisan when helping vets and very defensive of vets and military so ..I got over it and so did they I guess.  You will too.  It upset me to no end but I certainly was no troll and spent lots of time here long before I joined.  Don't sweat it.

                    They were pulling vetwifes from everywhere and I was not them.  I was one that moderated a forum but not all of those others.  My handle was not unique I found out.

                    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

                    by Vetwife on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:30:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Tip: don't call people 'wingnuts' (0+ / 0-)

    if you don't want to be insulted back. You insulted the other DUer first by calling them a 'wingnut', and they came back with the 'troll' remark. Both posts were hidden by DU juries. This was not an 'unprovoked attack'; you started the personal insults.

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