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Cross posted at Voices on the Square and The Stars Hollow Gazette
I know it. You know it, so who are we kidding? I suppose anything can happen, but essentially the election is over and our President will very likely win the electoral college and the Democrats will keep the Senate and maybe pick up some new seats in the House. So I'm here to find meaning within it all, because I have not been able to grasp how shutting up during election season, but then speaking up after the election will make us "move froward." Especially when the President and the filibuster-loving-set-to-do-nothing Congress do not have to care what we think at all afterwards.

They may get together for their grand bargain since many so called Democrats and Republicans are deficit terrorists and will work to tear down our social safety net in a bipartisan way for the mythical bond vigilantes and confidence fairies they believe in because Peter Peterson told them some scary bedtime stories in the chambers of Congress. This will all be hashed out in unrepresentative undemocratic gangs of 6 or 8 or 12 without our input. So what are we supposed to do when that happens and we are cut out? Make believe they still love us?

Or perhaps some think pointing this out is me being seduced by cynicism. Though I respect some who are arguing this now as opposed to the past, I have to vehemently disagree and I think I have a good case to make to counter that narrative.

You know who else makes a good case?  Nomi Prins author of It takes a Pillage, because there will be another one. We're supposed to believe in fairy tales about how Dodd Frank changed everything, but it didn't. She'll explain why while supporting the main thesis of this diary with a title and piece of her own that is similar but much longer and obviously more in depth. I'll post about less than half of it, but you should all read the whole thing.

How Wall Street Won the Election Long Before The First Vote Was Cast

Before the campaign contributors lavished billions of dollars on their favorite candidate; and long after they toast their winner or drink to forget their loser, Wall Street was already primed to continue its reign over the economy.

For, after three debates (well, four), when it comes to banking, finance, and the ongoing subsidization of Wall Street, both presidential candidates and their parties’ attitudes toward the banking sector is similar  – i.e. it must be preserved – as is – at all costs, rhetoric to the contrary, aside.

Obama hasn’t brought ‘sweeping reform’ upon the Establishment Banks, nor does Romney need to exude deregulatory babble, because nothing structurally substantive has been done to harness the biggest banks of the financial sector, enabled, as they are, by entities from the SEC to the Fed to the Treasury Department to the White House.

[..........]

The most consistent political platform is that big finance trumps main street economics, and the needs of the banking sector trump those of the population.  We have a national policy condoning zero-interest-rate policy (ZIRP) as somehow job-creative. (Fed Funds rates dropped to 0% by the end of 2008, where they have remained since.)

We are left with a regulatory policy of pretend. Rather than re-instating Glass-Steagall to divide commercial from investment banking and insurance activity, thereby removing the platform of government (or public) supported speculation and expansion, props leaders that pretend linguistic tweaks are a match for financial might. We have no leader that will take on Jamie Dimon, Chairman of the country’s largest bank, JPM Chase, who can devote 15% of the capital of JPM Chase, which remains backstopped by customer deposit insurance, to bet on the direction of potential corporate defaults, and slide by two Congressional investigations like walks in the park.

Pillars of Collusion

A few months ago, Paul Craig Roberts and I co-wrote an article about the LIBOR scandal; the crux of which, was lost on most of the media. That is; the banks, the Fed, and the Treasury Department knew banks were manipulating rates lower to artificially support the prices of hemorrhaging assets and debt securities. But no one in  Washington complained, because they were in on it; because it made the over-arching problem of debt-manufacturing and bloating the Fed’s balance sheet to subsidize a banking industry at the expense of national economic health, evaporate in the ether of delusion.

In the same vein, the Fed announced QE3, the unlimited version – the Fed would buy $40 billion a month of mortgage-backed securities from banks. Why – if the recession is supposedly over and the housing market has supposedly bottomed out – would this be necessary?

I know this will break the heart of many that think the Fed has magical powers and ZIRP and low inflation expectations are somehow bringing on a robust recovery in both the financial sector and real economy, but it's all an illusion. It's a relevant question Nomi puts forth as buying $40 billion a month of mortgage-backed securities from banks doesn't speak of a robust rebirth demand for MBS that would bottom housing out as what is falsely being claimed. It's even worse than Nomi is pointing out, because foreclosed homes are being kept off the market(an inventory scheme and a rental securitization scheme also ran out of the FHFA selling these homes to speculators to rent; one which they are actively pursuing and can't blame all on Demarco when it blows up) in tandem with these purchases to manipulate supply and thus manipulate prices so they will appear as if they are rising through market fundamentals but no.

The housing market is not healthy and neither are the TBTF banks asset sheets which you or I are not allowed to see, because we're told the market will get irrationally better in an exuberant way, just not today so they don't have to mark it down. The 1% are not like you or I. What I found in this piece which was most striking is her analysis of the LIBOR scandal which really put it all together for me. Ever since it hit I have been hearing conflicting reports on the different ways the many players and playees  benefited from it. It was obvious the banks were allowed to look healthier because of it, but many argue that those with mortgages and loans and other types benefited from the lower interest rate pegs below LIBOR.

However it is the end game in which investors being sold shitty deals and consumers being defrauded into mortgages they didn't understand were hit. The LIBOR fix was set from the very beginning to artificially raise the price of MBS in CDOs because that's how it works, the interest rate goes down and the price goes up on mortgage bonds set by the market which in turn is reacting to this information. Then multiple defaults at the same time in the "AAA" tranches caused those securities to be worthless hence making banks' balance sheets and everyone else that had holding in these CDOs insolvent triggering CDS holding events and here came the Great crash of 2008 starting in December 2007 though prices started falling in 2006.

But wait! There's more!

Yet, the Obama White House wants us to believe that Dodd-Frank was ‘sweeping reform.’ Romney and the Republicans are up and arms over it, simply because it exists and sounds like regulation, and Democrats defensively portray its effectiveness.

Ignore them both and ask yourself the relevant questions. Are the big banks bigger? Yes. Can they still make markets and keep crappy securities on their books, as long as they want, while formulating them into more complicated securities, buoyed by QE measures and ZIRP? Yes. Do they have to evaluate their positions in real world terms so we know what’s really going on? No.

Then, there’s the Volcker Rule  which equates spinning off private equity desks or moving them into asset management arms, with regulatory progress. If it could be fashioned to prohibit all speculative trading or connected securities creation on the backbone of FDIC-insured deposits, it might work, but then you’d have Glass-Steagall, which is the only form of regulation that will truly protect us from banking-spawned crisis.

[........]

To recap: savers, borrowers, and the economy are still losing money due to the preservation of the illusion of bank health. More critically, the big banks grew through acquisitions and the ongoing closures of smaller local banks that provided better banking terms to citizens. The big banks have more assets and deposits, on which they are over-valuing prices, and paying less interest than before, due to a combination of Fed and Treasury blessed mergers in late 2008, QE and ZIRP. Yet, we’re supposed to believe this situation will somehow manifest a more solid and productive economy.

So in essence ZIRP looks to mask the insolvency of our banking system while customers with those savings accounts will not get a decent return. So much for some of those small business investments and mom and pop entrepreneurship(most of it went with the manufacturing jobs they lost) all politicians drone about without really even understanding any of this since lending is not happening on a wide enough scale. And any financial reform that doesn't take in CDOs or the most dangerous derivatives CDS behind them like for some reason the now worthless SEC is doing as a part of its mandate for regulation is simply not going to stop another Long Term Capital Management and certainly not another AIG from being bailed out again.

This is precisely why the the eurozone crisis and the bond investors within many of our financial institutions shit a brick every time it looks like things will fall apart there, because the information is not symmetrical and it needs to be or no market truly works but they don't care. Whether with OTC derivatives not traded on an exchange and just an email somewhere or accounting or not holding a check book, a lack of information accurately recorded is going to have very bad consequences. But not for Wall St!

The politicians they own will just scream about what we don't know and to throw trillions at the problem and whip Congress while saying never again again, but never again seriously this time. You'll be told to shut up because there's a mid-term election in 2014. They'll tell you to have faith like last time when AIG was bailed out and in turn Goldman Sachs through the back door thanks to Turbo tax Timmy at the helm. Heck of a job Timmeh. Heck of a job Mr. President. QE III, like this election, is wall paper masking a crummy insolvent foundation.

You see, the problem with a crummy foundation is that you can only ignore it for so long before others start to notice it falling apart.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The people with pre-existing conditions will lose (10+ / 0-)

    if Romney wins, maybe paying with their life if deemed unprofitable by the private insurers.

    The supreme court will probably move to 7-3 GOP if Romney wins.

    •  The Democratic Congress should stop him (13+ / 0-)

      since they didn't want to get rid of the filibuster like they should have and should have used it to stop the Roberts Court from forming in the first place but were scared shitless by Bill Frist.

      The SCOTUS is not likely to change course anytime soon, but even still a moderate won't swing things and even who we think are liberal believe corporations have 1st amendment rights and are people. There may be some reasons to vote but that dog stopped hunting a long time ago.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:17:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've heard this several times (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        priceman
        since they didn't want to get rid of the filibuster like they should have and should have used it to stop the Roberts Court from forming in the first place but were scared shitless by Bill Frist.
        I'm curious how the senate even can change the filibuster rule if the minority party doesn't want to.  Frankly I don't know how its suppose to be done so if someone could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

        If at first you don't succeed, vote Teapublicans out and try again. You have to be persistent if you want anything out of life.

        by Final Frame on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:38:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  At the start of every Congress.. (9+ / 0-)

          There is something called a Constitution option where the Senate only needs 51 votes to change the rules otherwise it takes 2/3rd IIRC.

          Democrats sent you form letters about the unprecedented obstruction but failed to do this.

          ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

          by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:54:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think theres more to it then that. (0+ / 0-)

            To think the filibuster could be so easily side stepped but yet its still here.   Like everything else doesn't the GOP have to consent for the vote?

            Democrats sent you form letters about the unprecedented obstruction but failed to do this.
            Shouldn't that be us instead of "you"?

            If at first you don't succeed, vote Teapublicans out and try again. You have to be persistent if you want anything out of life.

            by Final Frame on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:22:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Shouldn't that be "than" instead of "then (6+ / 0-)

              Ask Kagro X via David Waldman of Congress matters if you don't believe me. There's absolutely not more to it than that. The rules were changed before from 2/3rds to 3/5th to break a filibuster using that process.

              I emphasized you to make the point in a different way, but I blocked most of them.

              ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

              by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:03:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  While I'm not cynical yet, (15+ / 0-)
    Starting Election Day, regardless of who’s elected, commit at least three hours every week to political organizing and mobilizing.
    This type of effort is impossible for Americans with two jobs or for those, like me, who spend their time off from work with their kids and volunteering for community nonprofits in desperate need of help to stay afloat.

    And, I'm not sure that any amount of activism anymore will be enough to get the money out of politics that allows the 1% so much control over government policy.

  •  Nah (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poligirl, highacidity, Kombema

    You missed the time when McGovern didn't stand up to the ......

    We all want a perfect world.  We also know the misgivings of the current situation.  

    I'm an old time supporter of your insightful writing, yet I have to say, this is giving too much credit to intellect vs. reality.  At some point. don't we have to back away from the edge of the cliff and show everyone that STILL has an open mind that the cliff is off in a distance, not see it through a microscope?

    We have a reality we must address now.  

    I appreciate your commitment to what has to be addressed as we move forward.

    Obama in 2012: Because There Might Not Be Much Left by 2016

    by funluvn1 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:20:01 PM PDT

    •  You're invoking McGovern? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      funluvn1, NoMoreLies, Kombema, aliasalias

      Ignoring these kinds of issues is what brought McGovern down in 1972 as here as a divide between the DFH and the hardhats that needed to tie together.

      But we make our own reality on what we will accept and what we won't in the discourse.

      But I appreciate the compliments, I just see things completely different and I have no power over this election nor did I ell anyone to stop voting. IN fact the first couple of paragraphs was ignored completely by mots people here saying I am discouraging voters by reminding them the truth about how wall St owns our government and will continue to.

      Thanks, funluvn1.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:49:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        priceman

        I'm saying the reality of the moment is what it is, and that I agree that going forward we need to move further left.

        You like to argue, and I'm well aware.  I like to straight up say it.  

        We need to deal with today and point out what we need to do tomorrow, with a loud damn voice.

        Remember.  Reality based.

        Obama in 2012: Because There Might Not Be Much Left by 2016

        by funluvn1 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:57:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's debatable (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    priceman, blueoasis, joe shikspack

    I think it was the military industrial complex that won. I mean, a game can only have one winner, right? Wall Street did pretty well, but they've taken it on the chin as far as reputation goes. The public is no longer lining up for the opportunity to fellate bankers, but everybody still loves them some drones and bombs!

  •  I know it. You know it. Many people know it. (10+ / 0-)

    Yet, we keep repeating and repeating the same old dance with fric  and frac.....   We really need a third party because it is the only way we can triangulate this loose cannon and gain some control.   I wish more people would take off their blinders and do something.   The Tea Party has walked circles around the unions and the left.

    'There is no doubt in my mind that Obama will cut Social Security and Medicare right after the election.  

    If money is speech, then speech must be money. Call your mortgage company and pay your rent now.

    by dkmich on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:20:02 PM PDT

    •  Horse shit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TLS66
      'There is no doubt in my mind that Obama will cut Social Security and Medicare right after the election.
      Pure. Horse. Shit.

      Utterbullcrap.com

      •  You're whistling through the graveyard, my friend (7+ / 0-)

        Obama just today released the transcript from his "off the record" interview with an Iowa newspaper editors group, and emphasized that a "Grand Bargain" along the lines of the Cat Food Commission (Simpson-Blows) will be likely. That type of agreement can only be arrived at with draconian cuts in U.S. services -- including immediate and long-term cuts to SS and Medicare.

        If you think it's all coming out of the Pentagon, you're mistaken. The middle- and working classes are on their way to being screwed by deficit hawks in the Democratic Party -- including BHO.

        Obama reaffirms "Grand Bargain" likely

        "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by Kombema on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 07:13:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hope you like horse shit because you (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        priceman, divineorder, Nada Lemming

        will soon have your share of it.   Anybody who doesn't understand that the banks and corporations own both parties and want all the money redistributed up to them is a jackass.

        If money is speech, then speech must be money. Call your mortgage company and pay your rent now.

        by dkmich on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 04:32:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Banks own both parties - more horse shit (0+ / 0-)

          I don't think you can get any more simplistic in your thinking.  That kind of sweeping generalization is defeatist horse shit and it's entirely off base.  Everyone's "bought off".  Yeah OK and the Pentagon is harboring aliens from fallen spacecraft in Area 51.  Where do you come up with this shit?  

          And you said you were going to work hard to oust President Obama from office.  That's pretty smart of you.  And where the fuck is your candidate?  Where is your genius replacement?  Your crowd does just as much damage to we Democrats as talk radio and Fox News.

          So take your horse shit and go to Red State.

          •  I don't understand that (0+ / 0-)

            position either? I understand voting for the lesser evil, but when you're convinced that even the lesser evil is still pretty evil and is still going to do everything you hate (just maybe in a nicer, more subtle way) then why even bother with the "more and better Democrats" mantra then?

            "The government of the many, not the government of the money" - Nancy Pelosi

            by Americantrueandblue on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 02:46:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  No pre-emptive defeatism! (16+ / 0-)

    Yo diarist, what do you want us to do?  Vote Green as a protest vote, or write in Ron Paul?   After all, everything is predetermined and we're going to lose anyway, so why not?  It's kinda' like your very own version of rape pregnancies: God's will, right?  

    As for "before an election," if you want to deposit a turd in the punch bowl, at least have the good manners to do it after the party, not before.  

    Bottom line:  lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way!

    "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

    by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:21:41 PM PDT

    •  Would you share your list (11+ / 0-)

      of everything we're not supposed to talk about until post Nov 6?

      It seems a common refrain from your comments over the past few months.

      "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

      by EdMass on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:26:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Blah, blah, blah, blah....... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poligirl, priceman, dreamghost

      Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

      by Lucy2009 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:30:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Limited imagination (11+ / 0-)
      lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way!
      I'll let George Carlin answer this:
      Here’s another guy thing that sucks… these t-shirts that say “Lead, follow, or get out of the way!” You ever see that? This is more of that stupid Marine Corps bullshit; obsolete, male impulses from 100,000 years ago. “Lead, follow, or get out of the way!” You know what I do when I see that shirt? I obstruct! I stand right in the guy’s path, force him to walk around me, gets a little past me, I spin him around, kick him in the nuts, rip off the shirt, wipe it on my ass, and shove it down his fucking throat! That’s what I do when I see that shirt. Yeah. Hey listen, that’s all these marines are looking for… a good time.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:32:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh bovine excrement! (0+ / 0-)

        Stop trying to rationalize emotional trolling.  

        Really.

        And no, you don't have to like it either.  Just don't go sneezing it all over everyone else in the crowd.  

        "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

        by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:02:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's messed up G2! (9+ / 0-)

          Priceman is a long time member of this community and to say that he is engaging in emotional trolling is just wrong and ridiculous.

          I have seen another Kossack treat Commonmass the same way. Someone called him a concern troll, if my memory serves me correctly, despite the fact that he too is a long time member of this community and has over a hundred followers.

          I think you are behaving the same way you behaved during the whole TN saga before TN's revelation. You are once again acting as an unofficial gatekeeper. I don't remember Kos or any other admin putting you in charge of what content can be written on this site. You, priceman and I have the same powers i.e., we are Trusted Users and that's it. None of us are special in any other way.

          If you disagree then express your disagreement but do not intimidate people into silence.

          •  oh, i'm so intimidating! (0+ / 0-)

            I'm big and scary and I have Markos on speed dial and Obama's mobile number too, oh noes!

            Sorry, but calling people on their contradictions doesn't count as intimidation or gatekeeping or any of that.

            Anyone can write whatever they like, and anyone is free to tell them it's a load of bovine excrement.   That's the rough-and-tumble of political arguement online.   If someone is afraid of having their weak meme-balloons popped by sparrows, perhaps they should surround 'em with lead shielding.  

            "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

            by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:44:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Call it whatever you want (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              priceman, PhilJD, Kombema, divineorder

              but don't demand that people not write what they have written as you have done in this diary.

              And also don't put up straw-man arguments. Where did the diarist say that we should vote for Ron Paul or write-in candidates? That came out of your mouth, if I am not mistaken.

              Not to be disrespectful but the problem is that you tend to create a hostile environment when people write about things you disagree with.

              We have seen what you can do when you get aggressive and hostile.

              In the not too distant past, you were complicit in getting one long term Kossack banned (and thankfully that Kossack was later reinstated).

              You even apologized later to that Kossack.

              Let's not go down that road again.

              Feel free to express your disagreements but (1). be honest, this means not putting up straw-man arguments or putting words in other people's mouths and (2). don't create a hostile environment and determine what other people can or cannot do.

              •  dude, go read the rest of the comments. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Americantrueandblue

                I'm not the only person calling out the diarist for spreading emotional flu-germs at the party.  A bunch of folks have caught on to this game and are calling it out one way or another.

                As for "the not too distant past," dredging up past conflicts to make a point, is a violation of site rules last time I checked.

                "Vote Green" was rhetoric.  Sorry you didn't like it, but I don't have any good suggestions for avoiding it because it's pretty common rhetoric in these parts.  

                The core purpose of this site is to elect more better Democrats.  Spreading defeatist memes such as "the election is over and... Wall St. won," is the opposite of that.  Say what you like but them's the facts.

                "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

                by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:15:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  He is a little Kos Crossing Guard self-appointed. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            priceman, aliasalias, divineorder

            ❧To thine ownself be true

            by Agathena on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 07:45:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  You ^^^ are the one who is in the way. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      priceman

      ❧To thine ownself be true

      by Agathena on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 07:41:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And there is no need to discouragevoters is there? (6+ / 0-)

    There is more than a presidential race at stake?
    A generation of supreme court justices?  what the hell does that have to do with Wall Street?

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:23:16 PM PDT

  •  its totally depressing (10+ / 0-)

    First Geithner convinces obama not to break up the big banks because it might damage economic "confidence" and now this nonsense is being pushed to help economic "psychology" by a whole stable of jackasses.

    Fix the job situation first Mr. Presidetn. Get the economy going and slowly address the debt. And quit listening to these Goldman advisors of yours.

  •  There are a lot of us here who still know about (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, G2geek, TLS66, Americantrueandblue

    the grand bargain and plan to keep fighting after election day.  Sorry dude, this journal is way, way to skeptical for me and I read Matt Taibbi's articles all the time.  Plus Taibbi pointed out that Wall Street is investing more in Romney than Obama.  I don't doubt that there will still be some Wall Street influence and that's why we need Elizabeth Warren in the Senate.  She might be only one Senator but she can bring the noise.  If you're trying to bum us out from voting, you failed.  Also I used to respect OWS and wish they had been more focused and kept up with getting people to pull their money from the banks because that's how you get money out of politics.  You weaken the source.  Sorry you can't handle the whole "shut up during the election" theme which no one is twisting your arm to do.  I don't know what your intention was with this diary but you are not going to stop the people in this community from voting.  Now if you want to remind people of the fight we still have ahead of us, I suggest instead of writing a long diary that's meant to bum people out that you write a diary with a full fledge plan to fight back.  A detailed plan that everyone in this community can follow and successfully use because protesting without offering solutions isn't protesting it's complaining.  Sorry price man, but you are one of several diarists who do this on Daily Kos.  I'm not trying to insult you or anything but I would like guys like you to instead write detailed plans and solutions to these large scale problems.  I know you think informing us is enough but it isn't.  We want to fight back but without a plan or someone leading, there will be no chance of that happening.

    •  I take that about as seriously as your user name (6+ / 0-)

      You won't fight the grand bargain. yes Wall St doesn't like being called fat cats, but they already own Congress and our Treasury even still. I'm just focusing on an issue. It has nothing to do with telling people how to vote if you read my first paragraph which you didn't.

      You used to respect OWS until they ran the get your money out of the big banks campaign which actually happened and is still going on but you don't pay attention? Why would anyone at Occupy care about your poopdogcomedy routine. BTW is this Alan Simpson trying to run interference?

      You're projecting things because you are lazy and do not read diaries. That's why you trot out the same Occupy doesn't stand for anything trope when really it's supporters without principles who don't stand for anything.

      It took the Obama/Bush police state you now love to put Occupy down, not a failed strategy about voting for the evil of two lessers. What you accept says everything about you, not me. Don't accept and make excuses for failed financial reform is a good start. Follow Occupy the SEC and maybe you'll learn something.

      I don't quite think you have the cognitive abilities to diagnose me snoopy snoopy poop dog and your comedy routine or whomever you really are needs a lot of work.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:44:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow, ok so of your comments are valid but to claim (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek, Americantrueandblue

        that I am putting down OWS is just way out there.  I just feel they need a change of leadership like in that article in Rolling Stone pointed out a while back.  I understand what you are going for but the title of your diary sounded more like a bummer to read.  I understand your passion and I respect that but there's no need for the insults.  Nothing in my comment was meant to be insulting but I do follow OWS on Twitter and keep track and they have been advocating for people not to vote.  Also I'm not lazy but I do like a detailed plan on what to do.  I think you took my comment way too personally and normally I would tell you to "fuck off" because your comment was insulting but I am not going to do that.  You can be passionate about something but when you respond like this, it makes you sound mean.  If you want more people to listen to you, refrain from the insults.

        •  How so? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          divineorder

          I've listened to the same "critiques for a long time and have rebutted them because it's easy. It offends me when those show disdain for people trying hard to scrape up enough from the monstrous system that through them overboard.

          Now you cowardly don't wnat to live up to what you said:

          You weaken the source.  Sorry you can't handle the whole "shut up during the election" theme which no one is twisting your arm to do.  I don't know what your intention was with this diary but you are not going to stop the people in this community from voting.  Now if you want to remind people of the fight we still have ahead of us, I suggest instead of writing a long diary that's meant to bum people out that you write a diary with a full fledge plan to fight back.  A detailed plan that everyone in this community can follow and successfully use because protesting without offering solutions isn't protesting it's complaining.  Sorry price man, but you are one of several diarists who do this on Daily Kos.  I'm not trying to insult you or anything but I would like guys like you to instead write detailed plans and solutions to these large scale problems.
          This ignorant garbage deserved the response it got and now you're whining because I called it out, but go ahead. tell me to "go fuck myself." That won't change the fact that you know nothing about OWS, solutions, movements, politics, or my diary you never read saying I'm trying to discourage those from voting.

          That proves you didn't read the diary and I'm supposed to take your pseudo critique seriously? tell me, is it my fault you really are too lazy to read the diary like i said and ignorantly projecting on it??

          Since I have context clues I pointed out that what you said was insulting and the response I gave was warranted. You didn't listen to me and you refuse to listen to me. You're not here to listen to me, so kindly GTFO.

          ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

          by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:21:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I did read your diary and I am going to re-read it (0+ / 0-)

            but I would've appreciated a "With all due respect sir" type of argument.  One where you kindly point where I am wrong.  I understand your anger and frustration and I am sorry that my comment came off that way but I never intended to upset you but I think you calling me lazy or ignorant doesn't help your argument.  You clearly want people to listen to you and take you seriously and I respect that but insults, whether you think they are warranted or not, don't help your argument.  That's all I'm saying.  

          •  Well I apologize if my comment came off as (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Empty Vessel

            insulting but if you harshly bite back at criticism that you don't like or agree with, good luck getting people over on your side.

      •  ad-hom: attack on user name. fail. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TLS66

        Plenty of ad-homs in that comment ("you are lazy"), might even be HR-able though I'm not going to drop a donut because we're already arguing somewhere else on this page, so that would be against site rules.  

        Dude, you're losing the arguement.  And "flailing while failing" is the second cousin of "texting while driving off a cliff."  

        "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

        by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:54:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, it's in context (0+ / 0-)

          snoopy snoopy poop dog is suspiciously close and something Alan Simpson said as I said. I wonder about that screen name and I'm not the only one. It's not an ad hominem attack, merely an inquiry. And poopdogcomedy is not a run of the mill name and it invites an inquiry because it is ridiculous sounding. I said nothing about the person behind the name besides my accurate critique that has nothing to do with the person.

          If you knew how to read properly you would know I said he was lazy and din't read the diary which he didn't. Context clues 101.

          Yeah, why are you following me and replying to every comment? It must be some inner deep compensation for something you lack.

          And you would have to acknowledge my argument correctly and respond to it for me to be losing, but I can't give you what you are looking for or lacking in your life so just stop responding to comments that have 0 to do with you, and go figure it out by yourself.

          ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

          by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:13:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree priceman, I think the winner will be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        priceman, aliasalias

        The Military National Security Complex. They are going to get everything they want no matter who is elected.

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 07:50:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It is a never ending battle (6+ / 0-)

    In an eternal war.

    Citing the Bible as proof of God is like citing comic books to prove the existence of Superman. (h/t to Stevie Ray Fromstein @ TheHolyAtheist.com)

    by rdbaker43 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:29:39 PM PDT

  •  So work on the next fight (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, Gooserock, JoanMar, G2geek

    It still makes a difference who wins, and it still makes a difference which major party holds Congress.

    I'll rec a diary like this on Nov 7 or later.  Until then, this is a silly ass thing to be mooning about right now.

    You're right on the facts.  But your timing is idiotic.

    [I]t is totally not true that Mitt Romney strapped Paul Ryan to the top of a car and drove him to Canada. Stop spreading rumors! -- Gail Collins

    by mbayrob on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:29:56 PM PDT

    •  I understand your comment but I don't know if (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek

      I would call it idiotic.  Diarists like priceman I'm sure feel an obligation to chime in like this but this diary came off as a major bummer.  It did nothing to motivate me to do anything.  I'm sure priceman believes that just by informing us he's done his job but the title of this diary does make it sound more like a bummer than one that encourages this community to do anything.

  •  First Understand There is Nothing We Can Do Short (8+ / 0-)

    term except surrender or defeat ourselves by allowing more Republicans in. But second, "speaking up" after the election no longer means emailing your congress person and activism-as-usual.

    It has to mean organizing independently to create the better Democrats and issues for us to vote on next time, so that we stop relying on 2 conservative parties to issue us our choices. That's the kind of speaking out etc.  after an election that helps.

    Tell me what you can improve in these 2 weeks that's worth publicly excoriating the Democratic party and candidates right now. If you can't, hang on 2 little weeks.

    Bill McKibben is launching climate change activism tour on Nov. 7th.  There is much else we can do starting that day.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:39:10 PM PDT

    •  I'm with priceman on this, we can do both. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      priceman
      On November 7th, we’re hitting the road to jumpstart the next phase of the climate movement.

      It’s simple math: we can burn 565 more gigatons of carbon and stay below 2°C of warming — anything more than that risks catastrophe for life on earth. The only problem? Fossil fuel corporations now have 2,795 gigatons in their reserves, five times the safe amount. And they’re planning to burn it all — unless we rise up to stop them.

      This November, Bill McKibben and 350.org are hitting the road to build the movement that will change the terrifying math of the climate crisis. Join us.

      Photobucket

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 11:28:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm voting for Obama on Nov 6th! (7+ / 0-)

    There is too much at stake with the SCOTUS, Obamacare, abortion, women's rights, war with Iran, etc, etc....

    With that said, I always love your diaries priceman and pretty much agree with what you write.

    Obama will almost certainly slash the social safety net the first chance he gets. He's not going to do a damn thing about Wall Street, and the drones will continue to randomly murder innocent men/women/children in Pakistan, Yemen and other parts around the world.

    The two Party election system is fully devolved into a lesser of two evils. BUT..... there is a lesser of those two evils, and I will give my vote to that candidate/Party.

    We will have to work mightily to overcome the oppression, tyranny and suppression that is at work in our country after this election. The 1% are winning, and they aren't going to give up any of the ground the've taken without a tremendous fight.  

    Here's to Obama winning on Nov 6th, 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Here's to a victorious fight by the people to take back our country, our democracy, our rights/equality/fairness and justice starting on Nov 7th, 2012.... but remember, it's only the beginning. We will have to make this change happen. The politicians are unable. They have mostly gone rogue; they are owned; they are greedy and corrupt. It's up to us to figure this out.

    Corporations before people.... it's the American way!

    by Lucy2009 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:40:23 PM PDT

  •  False equivalency alert! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, bubbanomics, G2geek, TLS66

    FalseEquivalencyAlert

    Voter suppression is treason.

    by Troubadour on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:43:33 PM PDT

    •  The irony of this comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      is lost on you like most things.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:06:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please continue, Governor. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TLS66

        You really are digging yourself in pretty deep.

        Here, have a nice JCB:

        http://www.jcbdirt.com/...

        If you can figure out how to operate it, you'll dig all the way to China by election day.

        "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

        by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:59:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is that from your sandbox? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          divineorder

          Sorry, I don't want to play. Now go throw your spamming temper tantrum somewhere else while the adults discuss the issues.

          ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

          by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:27:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  nicely done. excellent. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JoanMar, Troubadour

      Dude, you've been doing some brilliant stuff lately.  

      "Minus two votes for the Republican" equals "plus one vote for the Democrat." Arithmetic doesn't care about their feelings either!

      by G2geek on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:56:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great, concise analysis! (6+ / 0-)

    It's too bad though that some will chose to interpret your rhetoric as saying "they're all the same" or "it makes no difference whether or who you vote for."

    The problem isn't that Obama and the Democrats are equally evil as the right wing, but that the vastness of the corruption is  so huge and all-encompassing, that making even a tiny amount of progress in the right direction requires overcoming insurmountable resistance.

    To take that corruption on directly, the way Occupy did a year ago, really does require something like a revolution that would expose the complicity of the media, business, religion, the political system, and frankly all of us who in some way benefit from the status quo.  All of the institutions and the very fabric of our society would be exposed in their complicity, and the resulting destruction of the social compact would trigger chaos.

    Unleashing that kind of revolution, as righteous and necessary as it may be, would, like all violent conflict, hurt the most vulnerable most.  Call me "deluded" if you must, but I'd like to think the reason principled, knowledgeable people don't invoke this revolution is, like Al Gore "accepting" the 2000 Supreme Court decision giving Bush the presidency, the realization that it is a higher form of patriotism to NOT unleash a disastrous Civil War on the American people, with the millions of casualties that would result.

    I doubt Lincoln would have chosen the horrific casualties of our actual Civil War had he realized the scale and duration of the conflict that resulted, no matter how noble the cause.  Yes, our corrupt system continues to enrich the undeserving at the expense of everyone else, but if true social and political revolution actually occurred, would it be worth all of the innocent people that would be harmed, lives and communities destroyed?

    It may not be armed men in the hundreds of thousands facing off with rifles and cannon, but the collapse of the economic system, the health care system, public safety and emergency management, education and all the social goods that do rest uneasily on our current corrupt foundation could easily be swept away, with no guarantee that what would replace it would be any better, as in Weimar Germany, Somalia or some of the former colonies that fell to pieces when the Empire withdrew.

    That leaves us to make revolution in small, incremental steps, by changing consciousness and increasing awareness, the way the civil rights and environmental movements have taken on the powerful forces of the status quo.  To some degree the change will be generational, but I have to believe that time is on our side, and that technological and social empowerment will eventually accumulate enough might to bring about real change that will matter.

    Could Obama and the Democrats be more brave and persistent in righting what they know are wrongs?  Certainly.  But they need to live in this world too, and take responsibility for the consequences of their action, or lack thereof.  Is it not better  though to make change where it is possible than to not attempt it at all, or do so in a way that would make millions worse off than they are now?

    Otherwise, all that we're left with the nihilistic vision that there's nothing any of us can do or hope for, except to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic as the great ship sinks, and takes all of us with it.

    "It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

    by wonkydonkey on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 03:57:52 PM PDT

  •  Funny thing is I agree with much of what you say (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, bubbanomics, dnta, G2geek, TLS66

    Now, if the far progressive left could organize itself out of a paper bag, we might actually have something to DO.

    I'm guessing, and its just a guess, that most of your politics have been more or less the same for the last decade or two.  So how much closer are you to bringing those politics into legislative reality?  

    Yeah, I thought so.

    Time to revisit your methods...they suck.  Sorry to be that blunt...but if you have either made no progress or, as I would guess you say, the US has actually become more conservative...your methods suck.

    If your arguments are sound (and I think most of them are), and yet you cannot convince the majority to support them...your methods suck.

    So...what exactly are you gonna do differently than you have done in the last decade? Cause you are losing...and I want you, me and other progressives to win...but right now...your methods suck.

    And if you cannot accept that you are losing, that most of what you have been doing has been, at best ineffective, and at worst counterproductive...well, then I guess you just fucked.

    It's time for the progressive left to completely rethink how they are doing things.  And to be clear, that means you need to change your methods...not screaming about the need for everybody else needing to change their methods to conform to yours...cause you are losing...which mean your methods suck.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:09:32 PM PDT

    •  No you don't. You think I don't know you? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      Your comment sucks. our Bush/Obama police state is what put Occupy down, not the methods that changed the narrative for deficits to income inequality.

      So how much responsibility do you take for what has happened working people? I take it you vote party line no matter what but maybe you're one those limousine liberals who has it good and doesn't need to concern themselves with people that were destroyed during the crash. yeah, that's what it sounds like.

      It's not the methods that suck, it's your pretend values and third way principles that started with Carter to Clinton to now Obama. The activists behind LBJ and FDR were much more harsh than I even attacking them openly, yet if I cared to sit you down and explain this to you while you dance around and play the Machiavellian fiddle while being proud of yourself, probably having no idea that plenty of Democrats sold working people out precisely because of voters like you that probably "got theirs" to even notice or care. I don't need to answer your projections onto me, because for 30 years the polices you excuse have destroyed this country and you're proud of it. You think excusing everything from Clinton to Obama does and voting loyally is going to bring about changes even though history is on my side.lol Not yours, but I won't expect you to figure this out.

      hey I'm glad "You got yours" I'm glad being part of a team and not standing for anything real behind neoliebrla Democrats gives you a sense of satisfaction and a new way to define activism that never ever existed and never ever brought about what's left of the social welfare state Democrats will come after with Republicans soon in the grand bargain you hope people don't recognize. Goo for you, but don't pretend your pseudo knowledge of activism and what has been accomplished is going to be born out when the next crash comes. It will be on your hands and no one should or will ever listen to you again.

      All we have to do is look at the Bush years and the police state you now need to feel safe to see where you stand. You have given up. You have adopted a neoconservative civil liberties nightmare because a politician told you to. So attack me. berate me, but don't tell me you agree with me. Oh, I am not that naive. You don't even agree with the Democratic party platform. You sold that out a long time ago to be a part of a club that cares less for you than you can even imagine.

      ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin / I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

      by priceman on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:47:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is simple (0+ / 0-)

        This simple.

        Answer these questions

        Have you advocated for a more economically just society over the last 10-20 years?  (Yes/No)

        Is America now a more economically just society than it was 10-20 years ago? (Yes/No)

        If you answer Yes to #1 and No to #2 (That's exactly how I would answer those questions for myself)...you have failed, the progressive movement has failed, and I have failed.  

        So, what should you, me and the progressive movement do differently....cause we are failing.

        Got it.  Can you get over your-fucking-self and admit it?  Can you get over your bullshit personal attacks and look at your own failings.

        PS I've voted for socialists, democrats, greens and even one republican in my life (it was actually a progressive choice, I know, its weird).  You cannot see the difference between the message and the messenger.  Even if you were right, even if I was an OFA stooge...you cannot admit when you are failing and adjust your methods accordingly.  Rather, you just scream louder.  Fucking brilliant.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:59:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  PS (0+ / 0-)

        And you even admit your failing.

        Your comment sucks. our Bush/Obama police state is what put Occupy down, not the methods that changed the narrative for deficits to income inequality.
        You were put down, and at best you changed the narrative, but not legislation.  It was damn good work, but a failure.  Society is unchanged or worse, and you were put down.

        What will you do differently next time to win, to change the laws, to change society?

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 06:05:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  HAHAHAHAHAH Empty Vessel (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      priceman

      Stein and the Greens are on the ballot for 85% of the voters this election and qualified for fed election funds. So there are those who can organize on the left.

      In addition Digby, kos, Dean, and PDA all have a slate of candidates this time and have done great job fundraising for them.

      Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United

      by divineorder on Fri Oct 26, 2012 at 11:34:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This diarist doesn't care who gets elected. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, looty, GoogleBonhoeffer

    He's about "principles," not candidates.
    And like most purists, his timing is perfect. He's softening us all up to continue savagely attacking Obama and attracting more leadership after the election. And all the rest of the activists here, who hate us "partisans," will pounce, too. He's never cared here about the fact that this is a site to elect Democrats (whether "better" or not),  all Democrats are wall-street bloodsuckers and sell-outs. (The word "sell-out" has been shelved here for awhile, but it'll come roaring back after the election. The cry will be,
    okay, assholes, we mostly held fire, now get the hell out of our way. We've saved up our epithets for this for this anti-Obama onslaught.)

    You see, both Obama and Romney are capitalist pigs who detest the working class. There's no fucking difference.

    And until guys like the diarist gather a real army, with big numbers to overthrow capitalism, and I join them, I'll continue to vote for Democrats, people of color with progressive bent, whether moderate or left of center, most Latinos, and guys like Obama, or people resembling people like Obama. And what's more, if character counts, I'm sure Barack Obama's character could at least equal the character of anybody here, whether "activist" or "partisan."

    Someday, hopefully, a good book will be written about
    just how much a tightrope the first black president had to walk, and how much mud he had to endure from both right and left, and how he carried himself with much integrity throughout the whole process.

    Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more. Shakespeare, Henry V

    by Wildthumb on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:09:48 PM PDT

    •  Good to see this talking point making its way... (6+ / 0-)

      into the conversation this early on. No more "save this for after the election". Now it's "see, this is what they'll do after the election".

      And you are correct. Whatever the optics, there is a small group who will continue to argue against Wall Street's takeover of the political conversation. We'll fight it when they bring their austerity show to town in the coming months and we'll fight it when they bring their free trade song and dance to Congress.

      Who the President is doesn't change our willingness to argue against this reckless policy direction.

      "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

      by 2020adam on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:21:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Will the fact that you have failed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GoogleBonhoeffer

        to stop it, slow it, or reverse it make you think about whether the ways you are arguing and fighting it are working and how to do it better?  

        I'm not trying to be too much of a downer...but you do realize that whatever methods you are using...they have failed.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:24:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let me put this another way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GoogleBonhoeffer

          I loved OWS, it was fantastic...but you do realize that the high water mark for economic justice in the last 30 years was a failure...right?

          We all need to ask ourselves why it failed, and figure out what we need to do differently so that it doesn't fail in the future.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:26:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not personally responsible for the direction... (5+ / 0-)

          of the country. Don't have the money or the megaphone. I've talked about the People's Budget, I talked about the President's right to ignore the debt ceiling, I've discussed recess appointments to fix the judicial emergency, I shouted from the rooftops about using budget reconciliation, which they ended up using in an incredibly limited way.

          I don't have any power to get these ideas into the mainstream and I don't have any magical suggestions for how to get them beyond Bill Moyers, Sam Seder, Amy Goodman and the rest. But it's clearly better than just nodding at whatever the Leadership does.

          I'm just some broke kid, don't go shouting me down because I haven't fixed the continued tidal wave of Wall Street power.

          "The Democratic Party is not our friend: it is the only party we can negotiate with."

          by 2020adam on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 04:44:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The effects of real world Friedmanism. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    priceman, divineorder

    Bad economic policies will, of course, lead to bad economies. When the cracks in the foundation are big enough to see from a distance, the time for solutions has probably passed us by.

  •  Even a three-legged dog (0+ / 0-)

    still has three legs to lose.

    Sure things suck right now but if Romney wins they'll get much, much worse.

    Barack Obama is not a secret socialist class warrior who wants to redistribute wealth in America. But I'll still vote for him, anyway.

    by looty on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 05:48:59 PM PDT

  •  Borderline third-party advocacy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ratcityreprobate

    Pure Nadercrap.

    "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

    by TLS66 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 06:47:14 PM PDT

  •  i am cynical... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    priceman, aliasalias, divineorder

    wall street ceo's advocating for spending cuts and raising taxes 3:1 ala simpson bowles makes my skin crawl

    these 80 or so ceo's are just setting the hook so they can reel everyone into austerity, i  mean deficit reduction - they just want to seem like the reasonable ones now.......................wtf

    •   Bernie Sanders is shining a bright light on it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      priceman, lostinamerica, divineorder

      and we'll need to pressure our legislators in Congress to make a statement on it before the election. For the same reason Sen. Sanders has been trying to get as many signatures as he can from Senators to a promise to not cut SS, raise the retirement age or screw the elderly on their/our COLA with a CPI,... before the election.
      http://www.commondreams.org/...

      The report Top Corporate Tax Dodgers (pdf) outlines individual CEO income and tax information, exploring the vast amounts of tax avoidance from the members of the group who today urged congress to avoid the 'fiscal cliff' budget, through their telling new plan.

      Sanders reveals how many of the CEOs who issued the statement have evaded at least $34.5 billion in taxes through more than 600 subsidiaries in the Cayman Islands and other offshore tax havens since 2008. Roughly a dozen of their companies did not pay federal income taxes at all in recent years and some received an additional $6.4 billion in tax refunds from the IRS since 2008. Many of the companies were among those who received the $2.5 trillion from the Federal Reserve following the banking industry induced financial crisis.

      In addition, many of those companies are responsible for vast amounts of unemployment, due to the practice of employment outsourcing to foreign countries.

      All of these actions, Sanders argues, are direct causes of the American deficit. The hypocrisy in the CEOs' "lecture to the American people" is stifling.

      Sanders elaborated today:

      There really is no shame. The Wall Street leaders whose recklessness and illegal behavior caused this terrible recession are now lecturing the American people on the need for courage to deal with the nation’s finances and deficit crisis. Before telling us why we should cut Social Security, Medicare and other vitally important programs, these CEOs might want to take a hard look at their responsibility for causing the deficit and this terrible recession.

      Our Wall Street friends might also want to show some courage of their own by suggesting that the wealthiest people in this country, like them, start paying their fair share of taxes. They might work to end the outrageous corporate loopholes, tax havens and outsourcing provisions that their lobbyists have littered throughout the tax code – contributing greatly to our deficit."

      (emphasis mine)

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Thu Oct 25, 2012 at 11:39:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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