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If the airplanes used on 9/11 to attack us had fallen in, say, Bayonne, NJ and Falls Church, VA, the US response may have been calmer than our full scale invasion of two countries.

That is because, even though people killed in a city or in the countryside are equally dead, the destruction of financial and/or political centers is symbolic and generates stronger emotions.

Yesterday Tel Aviv was under attack for the first time since the first Gulf War.

Just a little while ago air raid sirens went off in Jerusalem.

Think of the anger in the US when the WTC fell and the Pentagon was attacked. Imagine that level of anger among Israelis and their leaders with their economic, political, and religious centers under attack.

If you pray, please pray for peace. This is beginning to look like it could be much worse than anything we have seen in Israel, Egypt, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon and Syria in quite a while.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (19+ / 0-)

    If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
    If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
    If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

    by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:28:46 AM PST

  •  fuck n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Statusquomustgo

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:33:03 AM PST

  •  That is what you get (21+ / 0-)

    While I am no big supporter of Palestine even though I think Israel has really put the screws to the civilians. Israel decided to kick the hornet's nest by launching a assassination on the Hamas military leader. What did Israel expect would happen? Benjamin Netanyahu is an idiot and a warmonger. He has no real desire for peace.

    •  US wouldn't hesitate to kill (15+ / 0-)

      a terrorist leader if we had him in our sights. Why double standard for Israel? Good for them in killing that guy. Why should they be suffering under the constant barrage of missiles. Time to go clean out the terrorists.

      •  because at dkos (8+ / 1-)

        israel is usually the bad guy and run by a right wing leader

        and a democrat ordered the killing of OBL

        •  You are full of it man (10+ / 0-)

          this is not a racist board or anti-semitic either.  The fact is, Israel was wrong and only did it because peace was close at hand.  This is not the country's fault this is the fault of the dumbassed leader of the country.  Bibi was hoping that the bishop would win the election here and he could go with our blessing, now he is one his own and just may be in deep shit over this as well.  This was a huge blunder on his part and Israel will pay dearly for it.  Shame on him.

          •  Peace was close at hand? (9+ / 0-)

            I've seen no indication that either side was ready to make nice.

            •  The Hamas commander received a truce agreement (7+ / 0-)

              draft before his death, per HuffPo and Haaretz:

              Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

              Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

              "I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."

              So why assassinate the guy when you're in the midst of brokering a truce with him?
              •  Baskin has a complex relationship with his govt' (0+ / 0-)

                The Israeli government uses him as an intermediary but does not trust him very much.

                Keep in mind that Jabari has been on Israel's list of assassinations for years. Whether you agree with the policy or not (I don't) there is a very good chance that this assassination had a tenuous connection, at best, to the now escalating conflict. It often takes Israel years before they can get people on this list, similar to how well OBL was able to hide from us.

                Not saying the assassination was right - just that (a) Baskin never said a truce was agreed to, just that there had been negotiations and (b) it is possible that the killing of Jabari is a coincidence of timing and not an intentional provocation.

                Intentional or not, it was a stupid move.

                If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
                If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
                If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

                by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 09:50:01 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I will certainly agree that it is possible (0+ / 0-)

                  (even likely) that the group that approved the assassination didn't know beans about the possibly incipient agreement.  But the timing appears to be really unfortunate nevertheless, and is perfectly calculated to convince Hamas that there is absolutely no point in holding back.

                  If this was done on purpose it is truly idiotic and despicable.  If it was the result of a miscommunication or a mistake, the Israelis should be on the phone with the Egyptians to ask them to tell Hamas the real details of the situation.

                  Escalation is unlikely to serve any of the players well.

                  •  Except that approach (0+ / 0-)

                    continues the false idea that either Israel or Hamas really need an excuse to go at each other. It assumes rational actors where there, in some ways, are none.

                    Escalation only hurts the people being killed and injured and their loved ones - it does nothing to hurt the leaders ordering it to happen, more's the pity.

                    If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
                    If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
                    If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

                    by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 01:50:02 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  never said racist or anti-semetic (9+ / 0-)

            i'm jewish, never felt like anyone here is anti-semetic in any way.

            BUT, the vast majority of diaries here are pro-pslestinian and anti-israeli when it comes to this topic.

            not anti-jew, not anti-people of israeli, but anti-israeli actions.

            and peace was not close at hand, I can't understand why anyone here is believing that BS. Hamas has one goal, to destroy israel and kicks the jews out of the middle east. as long as palestinians vote hamas into power election after election, there cannot and will not be peace. hamas has never once, never once, fufilled its side of a cease fire fully. not once. Militant Hamas has never once proven to care about the people of palestine, only the acquisition of weapons and the firing of them into preschools and homes.

            israel is no saint in this, israel has done plenty of wrong over the year and recently. but don't act like israel just screwed up some major peace accord.

            •  Read the Haaretz (6+ / 0-)

              English edition, I do.  There was a draft of the permanent peace plan in hand of the man Israel killed.  Bibi is not serious about peace and that is a fact.  Read it for yourself and then come back and tell me that Bibi did not screw it up.  

              In all conflicts, no side is as perfect as the driven snow.  That is why there are peace accords to try to find common ground.  It does not appear that Bibi wants to recognize that and sounds more and more like our own right wing new republican party.  The my way or the highway crowd.  Israel and the world would be a much better place if Bibi retires and moves to Florida or someplace out of Israel

              •  Link (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Celtic Merlin

                Let all the Bush tax cuts expire

                by Paleo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:35:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  i read it (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  markw, Hey338Too, Neuroptimalian

                  i don't believe there is any validity to the report. I believe Haaretz was fed bad information.

                  I don't think Bibi had sent a peace accord, I don't believe Hamas was ready to sign a peace accord. I believe the entire report is a lie, generated not by the reporters or the newspaper, but by bad information being given by both sides.

                  the fact is Hamas' stated goal, the first thing they want to do, is get rid of israel. do you really think a high-level bomber thrower but a low-level politician was really going to get his bosses to change their minds and go "oh yea, maybe constant missiles for years on end was a bad idea". I don't, and you're falling for propoganda is you do.

                •  We are reality based community here (9+ / 0-)

                  And what you are saying, is to put it mildly, misleading.
                  Here is a link to Gershon Baskin's own words:

                  http://www.thedailybeast.com/...

                  There was no deal ta hand.  Baskin floated his peace proposal couple of months ago, in his own words, with no success on either side.  He tried it again this month.  That's the proposal that was in the hands of Jaabari.

                  The way you say it, it sounds like the prposal in Jaabari's hands was some overture from Israeli government.  It is just not true.

                  If Hamaz really wants to help Palestinian people, they should renounce violence, recognize state of Israel, and start spending money on roads and schools, and not on longer-range missiles.  It's that simple.  Gaza is not occupied.  It has now a very porous border with Egypt.  It is 100% in the hands of Hamaz to make Gaza an oasis of peace and prosperity, or, alternatively, into a sea of despair and suffering.

                  •  What part of that article (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    WattleBreakfast

                    is causing you problems?  It is clear from his own words, that there was in fact, a draft proposal.  Here is how something like that works.  You start something and negotiate with a draft proposal.  Kind of like bidding on a project.  You have a draft proposal that you present to the powers to be and they make changes and negotiate for different portions that they like and for the ones they don't like.  That is what the man is saying.  He is saying that he did have a proposal in its draft form, and the man killed had just gotten it for review.  Pretty plain that there was on side that did not want to negotiate and now, look where it is.

          •  if you actually believe that 'peace was close at (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JNEREBEL

            hand', you have some reading to do.

            That said, yes, I agree that Netanyahu is a right-wing warmonger.

            The Hamas leadership are right-wing warmongers too.

            Perhaps both should leave.  Now.

          •  I don't think any truce was about to happen (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PeterHug

            But I do agree with this:

            Bibi was hoping that the bishop would win the election here and he could go with our blessing, now he is one his own and just may be in deep shit over this as well.  This was a huge blunder on his part and Israel will pay dearly for it.  Shame on him.
            Agree with you fully.

            If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
            If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
            If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

            by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 09:41:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  have not HR'd in a while (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hey338Too, CarbonFiberBoy

          trying to figure out what I said...

          is it not true that most diaries tend to be on the side of palestinian actions?

          or that Bibi is right wing?

          or that OBL was killed by a democrat?

          btw - nothing in there about jews or muslims. you can speak about israel without it being anti-semetic

        •  I read DKos totally differently (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bluerall, alain2112, Florida Democrat

          First, Israel is not a huge topic here. Compared to other current events there have been relatively few DKos diaries about what is going on in Israel. That is because the Kos world has its priorities straight:
          1 - Domestic issues
          2 - Foreign relations involving places that either (a) we have active military campaigns in or (b) have a major impact on our economy
          3 - Other foreign issues

          Second, I have found that while there are some voices parroting the most extreme of the anti Israel views, in general the conversation is well reasoned out.

          I have had some fantastic comments exchanges both with people whom I agree and disagree with.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 09:35:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  so have I (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CarbonFiberBoy, A Gutin Daf

            I would argue we all want the same outcome - an end to violence and happy people overall. we just differ on how to get there.

            no one likes missiles or bombs. no one cheers when it happens.

            but i do get upset when there has been constant attacks on both sides for a period of time, and then everything gets blamed on one side.

            •  Again, I read the diaries and comments (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Trobone

              differently, but I understand how you feel.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:49:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  One man's terrorist.... (13+ / 3-)

        is another's freedom fighter.

        Israel terrorizes the Palestinians on a daily basis, and oppresses them at will. But the Israelis are somehow 'heroic' and 'good' and we are to support them unquestioningly.

        But if a Palestinian should attempt to resist with anything other than words, he is automatically branded a 'terrorist' and fit for nothing but violent death.

        Gaza is for all intents and purposes a concentration camp run by Israel.

        But how DARE those ungrateful people resist their oppressors? Why won't they just do what Israel wants?

        After all, Israel is 'good'.

        Cheers.

        Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. Friedrich Schiller

        by databob on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:00:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  he was, it was reported (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan, OIL GUY, MotleyC, SCFrog, dskoe

        about to declare a truce negotiated with Israel. Obviously it wasn't in good faith.

        That's why this seems so incredibly senseless.

        pseudoscience can kill

        by terrypinder on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:02:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  you are clutching at one report (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          markw, volleyboy1

          While we all know there were hundreds of rockets raining on Israel during this time. Israel, as always, is showing too much restraint in the face of non-stop terrorism.

          •  *shrug* (4+ / 0-)

            Personally, I think the establishment has declared the residents of Gaza to be Amalekites they should just roll over and take their punishment like a good little bantustan but that's just me. Also, I get that sense from your "they're being too restrained" comment but it must be just my imagination.

            non-stop terrorism? It seems like it was pretty quiet until a few days ago. I do follow some Israeli news sources so I'm not entirely ignorant. I think I would have noticed the constant bombs falling from the skies. I did and have noticed social issues not related to Palestinians. The camps for immigrants are particulary disturbing. Housing costs are another. I suppose they won't get addressed in the upcoming elections, at all. Ah, c'est la vie. The world is the same all over.

            (yes, I know there ARE bombs falling from the skies NOW, after the whole thing blew up on Wednesday.)

            Also, it seems rather obvious that neither side particulary wants peace, and moderate voices get shut out of the process. "Hamas has no interest in peace, and never will." That certainly may be true, but if Jabaari was indeed about to negotiate a permanent truce and they just dropped a one-ton bomb on him anyway, I guess you've made your statement true.

            Seems to me the obvious way would be to foster those nonviolent voices. I do know they exist and they're not exactly an insignificant minority, at least in Gaza. But it seems pretty obvious the powers-that-be on both sides really don't want that to happen. The problem will get uglier, especially since you have an area that is the size and population equivalent of Philadelphia that basically looks like, to me, an open-air prison camp.

            And now you have your Amalekites, ready to be pounded into dust. Bravo. Well done.

            And if you're thinking, "well, you probably approve of the Obama Administration's War on Terror," let it be known that I do not, not in the way it's prosecuted by him or his predecessor (other than one action, and the only one that was justifiably needed, and that was shooting--without the use of an entire airforce mind you or even a single one-ton bomb that created significant collateral damage--Osama bin Laden.)

            There are probably other ways. But it seems the people who try to use them just end up getting shot, or blown up, or ostricized, or whatever.

            In the end though climate change will pretty much make all of this moot, because humanity will not see the middle of the 22nd Century, so, again, shrug.

            pseudoscience can kill

            by terrypinder on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 09:09:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  A lot to unpack, but here goes: (7+ / 0-)
              Personally, I think the establishment has declared the residents of Gaza to be Amalekites they should just roll over and take their punishment like a good little bantustan but that's just me.
              Can you provide a quote in an article that says as much? By using the term "Amalekites" do you mean to say that you consider Israel to be genocidal in its treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza? If their intent was genocide then they could easily do it - Israel has enough aircraft and munitions to bomb most of Gaza to death.
              It seems like it was pretty quiet until a few days ago. I do follow some Israeli news sources so I'm not entirely ignorant. I think I would have noticed the constant bombs falling from the skies.
              From Wikipedia:
              Jan - 9 rockets, 7 mortars
              Feb - 36 rockets, 1 mortar
              March - 173 rockets, 19 mortars
              April - 10 rockets
              May - 1 rocket
              June - 83 rockets, 11 mortars
              July - 18 rockets, 9 mortars
              August - 21 rockets, 3 mortars
              September - 17 rockets, 8 mortars
              October - 116 rockets, 55 mortars
              November 11th alone - over 100 rockets

              I would say March and October count as "constant" for the people living there, if not from a strictly statistical perspective. You don't hear about is because the rockets are not very effective at killing people, just at scaring the hell out of 800,000 people at a time (the regional warning system can't pinpoint where every rocket is going so all the alarms from Ashkelon to Be'er Sheva sound at once I believe).

              The camps for immigrants are particulary disturbing.
              First, this is about refugees, not immigrants. Second, I think Israel is wrong in the way the African refugees are being treated. Third, at least Israel is willing to take refugees; they say yes to refugees because of the times when the world rejected Jewish refugees during WW 2.
              Housing costs are another.
              It could be argued that Bibi did more damage as Finance Minister than he is doing as Prime Minister. OK, that's hyperbolic, but in the long term Israel is suffering from policies he put into place over a decade ago.
              Also, it seems rather obvious that neither side particulary wants peace, and moderate voices get shut out of the process.
              Actual peace will not happen until at least a few generations have passed. Best that can be hoped/prayed for right now is an end to hostilities and a stable region. Israel and Egypt is a good model; technically they have peace, in reality they are just not at war, and both have incentives to keep things that way (notice the lack of overt military support from Egypt for the Hamas government; all the support they provide is of the moral kind).
              I would say that both sides want peace in the same way Americans, when asked, don't want a deficit. It is a desire but not, at the moment, at the top of anyone's list of immediate priorities. Peace makes for a lousy objective; stability and quiet is a much better one. Peace between the US and Japan happened not because Japan surrendered but because we rebuilt Japan between '45 and '52.
              if Jabaari was indeed about to negotiate a permanent truce
              It is clear Jabari was reading a truce. It is not clear that he had any real interest in it. Anything beyond him looking at it is conjecture. The activist who is quoted in the article, Baskin, is an intermediary between Israeli authorities and Hamas leaders. However, he also has his own independent agenda.
              Seems to me the obvious way would be to foster those nonviolent voices... The problem will get uglier, especially since you have an area that is the size and population equivalent of Philadelphia that basically looks like, to me, an open-air prison camp.
              Here is what I think is the only solution that will work in Gaza:
              • Give Gaza sovereignty as a state, so that Hamas has responsibility as a state actor.
              • Through Egypt and Turkey establish a Marshal-style Plan for Gaza funded by everyone. Rebuild the buildings, infrastructure, education and (most important) the economy
              • If the general population of Gaza has a lot to lose whenever Hamas and others start taking pot-shots at Israel then they will stop tolerating these groups.
                • At that point the extremists will either have to adapt or disappear.
              • This is basically why the West Bank is moving towards becoming a successful, stable state while Gaza looks like a failed one.

              I think I have the most problem with the word "Amalekite" in this context. Israel's strategies and objectives are a mess, but I do not think the government's objective is genocide.

              As for the last few lines of your piece - I am optimistic that someone will eventually figure this out and pessimistic that too much blood will be spilled along the way.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:22:35 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  it's BS (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          markw, Hey338Too

          hamas has no interest in peace, never has, never will.

        •  truce =/= peace (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          A Gutin Daf

          just sayin'

      •  Including Bibi the murderer (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paleo, SCFrog

        "Who is John Galt?" A two dimensional character in a third rate novel.

        by Inventor on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:02:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If Bibi is a murderer (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cryonaut

          Then so is any state leader whose military does things you don't like.

          As opposed to the US President he is not even a civilian leader of the military.

          I think Bibi is a scumbag who has blood on his hands metaphorically for encouraging policies that led to today, but murderer is not the word for that. If it is then every member of the US House and Senate who voted for the Iraq was are murderers as well.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:25:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  the guy was negotiating a cease-fire (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan, OIL GUY, MotleyC, SCFrog, dskoe

        From what I've heard, the terrorist leader in question was actually in the middle of negotiating a cease-fire with Israeli officials.  When it first happened, it did not seem clear whether Israel's right hand knew what its left hand was doing.  And people thought it was crazy to bomb a guy who's talking to you; why would anyone negotiate with Israel now when they just might kill you anyway?

        To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

        by Visceral on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:03:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is a difference between reading a truce (0+ / 0-)

          that has been handed to you by a non-official intermediary between you and Israel and actively negotiating.

          Also, Jabari was on Israel's list of targets for years. When someone is on that list they get killed as soon as Israel sees an opening. I think the policy of assassination is wrong, but there is a distinct possibility that they saw their first shot in a while and took it; Jabari knew he was on the list.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:27:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Because one side's terrorist (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan

        is the other side's freedom fighter in a civil war.

        And civil wars are decided not by the military prevailing but by which side's views come to prevail as just in the armistice and peacetime of the next generations.

        •  Terrorism is a tactic (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CarbonFiberBoy, Hey338Too, JLan

          used by those who have a cause so important to them that they see violence as the only solution but who are not a state actor and therefore do not observe the niceties of uniforms, official declarations of war, and the like.

          Terrorism is a tactic wherein you target civilian populations in order to generate enough death, fear, and chaos so that the civilians demand that their government do something to stop it. Sometimes those who use terrorist tactics achieve their goals - the Palestinians in the West Bank are more "free" today than they were before the first Intifada which led to the Oslo talks. Sometimes they fail - the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

          Hamas and Islamic Jihad use terrorism as a tactic. In the short term, they get to cause a lot of mayhem for Israeli Jews (both groups are clearly anti-semitic where Fatah is much less so). In the medium term, they get to cause conflicts in which the death toll of Palestinians outpaces deaths of Israelis by up to a 100 to 1 ratio (Cast Lead in '08).

          In the long term, they may honestly believe that they can destroy Israel. No one ever said that my version of rationality is shared by others.

          Some groups find it easier to abandon terror as a tactic when the time comes - see Fatah, see the IRA. Some do not.

          The reason sovereign states come down so hard on those using terrorism as a tactic is because it completely breaks the social compact between the state and its citizens; the state's first duty is to protect its civilian population. If terrorist tactics become the norm then it is impossible for a state to fulfill that social compact and it all goes to hell.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:35:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Constant barrage? (5+ / 0-)

        The constant barrage started after the killing.

        And this is not similar to taking out a terrorist leader.  Israel uses the word terrorist to describe any military resistance.

        Let all the Bush tax cuts expire

        by Paleo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:24:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  ... (0+ / 0-)

        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

        by indycam on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:39:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is a constant theme of Israeli policy (4+ / 0-)

      At least since 2001.  Usually for political reasons, Israel will deliberately break the relative quiet by taking out a Palesitinian civilan or military leader.

      Let all the Bush tax cuts expire

      by Paleo on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:21:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  RELATIVE QUIET?!! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        markw, zemblan, JNEREBEL

        800+ rockets is "relative quiet"?

        Bullshit.

        Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Palate Press: The online wine magazine.

        by dhonig on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:37:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Israel, like the US, has a list of targets (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CarbonFiberBoy

        Those targets know they are on the list, so they do whatever they can to evade being killed.

        Whenever Israeli intelligence sees that a target may be out in the open they do not hesitate to go for the kill.

        I think that there should not be assassinations, but this is how the process works. It is nearly impossible to "schedule" when one of the people on the list will suddenly become vulnerable.

        It is never a good time for one of these hits to go down because there is always a rumble somewhere. There are skirmishes between Israel and Palestinians nearly every day; they are barely reported by even the Israeli press because they are such a regular part of life.

        I feel the same way about how, in the late 90s, it seemed a bus would blow up every time a high US official was about to visit Israel. They were probably coincidences (suicide bombers were constantly trying to cross the border, these were the ones who got through) but they often felt like intentional timing.

        If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
        If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
        If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

        by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:42:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  absolutely right (n/t) (0+ / 0-)
  •  There is no good outcome to this (5+ / 0-)

    Israel will no doubt launch a ground assault into Gaza. Hundreds will die. Israel will eventually withdraw and nothing will have been solved.

  •  Que sera, sera. Both sides are immature and both (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aureas2

    will reap what they sow by their combined stupidity.

    Hope has a hole in it when Republicans come, bringing shackles and sorrow; branding their greed on the backs of the poor. - Wendy Connors

    by Wendys Wink on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:52:24 AM PST

  •  Uh . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    soros, Deep Texan, SCFrog

    The article you link says these were Qassam rockets. Not to minimize the threats elsewhere in Israel and the fears of both Israelis and Palestinians due to bombings, but are you quite sure the Qassam has the range to reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem from Gaza? I think it's noteworthy that the articles say they fell "outside" the cities, one in the sea and one in fields, which could be about anywhere.

    "I had seen the universe as it begins for all things. It was, in reality, a child's universe, a tiny and laughing universe." Loren Eiseley

    by cadejo4 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:53:05 AM PST

  •  Bibi gets the war he's always wanted.... (13+ / 0-)

    In an amazing coincidence, Israel's elections are scheduled for January! Who woulda thunk?

    Obviously, Israel can blame anything and everything on the Palestinians (and they do), but all their self-righteousness can't disguise the brutal oppression they have visited on the helpless people of Gaza and the West Bank.

    While claiming to want peace, Israel's real policy has been 'we'll oppress you, beat you, kill you, take away your lands, expell you, refuse to allow you to return and do anything else we feel like, and we'll keep doing this and making your lives worse and worse until you agree to accept whatever terms we dictate to get your 'peace''.

    Well, Bibi, you got your war - the one you've been lusting for since the first gulf war when you sat there holding your gas mask as Saddam's Scuds flew.

    This time, it looks like you might keep pushing and escalating until something major breaks.... are you really trying to drag us into your war?

    Keep this up and you might find out what Hizbollah has been busy doing for the past 6 years..... remember back in 2006 when you were shocked at how many rockets they had? Reckon they've been re-stocking?

    Yes, I'm sure you'd love to drag us into your little hissy-fit, and that other guy.... what's his name?... starts with an R.... I'm sure he would already have sent US troops to die for your 'glory', but our election didn't work out so well for you, now, did it?

    So we'll watch this one from the sidelines, I reckon.

    Cheers.

    Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. Friedrich Schiller

    by databob on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:54:02 AM PST

  •  From haaretz (twitter): (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1
    haaretzcom: For first time since 1970, rocket fired at Jerusalem, lands in open area in Gush Etzion; no casualties http://t.co/...

    Want to slash "entitlement spending"? Start with John McCain's salary.

    by here4tehbeer on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:00:08 AM PST

  •  It's a trap (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CarbonFiberBoy, Hey338Too

    A Gaza operation is a trap for Israel

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/...

    ....So why this sudden escalation, which seems almost designed to force Israel into action?

    The answer, as with a good proportion of the Middle East’s big questions at the moment, is Iran.

    Iran is Israel’s number one threat and the focus of its efforts. Israeli leaders, especially Benjamin Netanyahu, have helped make tackling the Iranian military programme a cornerstone of American and European foreign policy. After many years of incremental increase, the sanctions on the Iranian regime are finally strong enough to hurt the economy and destabilise the Rial, Iran’s currency.

    Iran is as afraid of sanctions as it is of military action – maybe more. These sanctions are being ratcheted up another notch, and even at this late stage they can still have an impact. Meanwhile, Iran’s most solid regional ally, Syria, is massacring its own people with the help of Hezbollah, an action which has made Iran more hated than Israel in some parts of the Sunni Arab world.

    Iran needs a spoiler, something which will undermine the West’s ability to strengthen sanctions while simultaneously ‘reminding’ the Arab street that they’re supposed to be hating Israel. Israel’s alleged destruction of a secret Iranian weapons facility in Yarmouk, Sudan last month – a facility which might have been making weapons destined for Hamas – seems to have been the excuse Iran used to push Hamas back into the rocket-firing business.

    If the IDF takes wider action, it would be bad for Hamas and Islamic Jihad. It would be good for Iran, though, and anything good for Iran at the moment is bad for Israel’s ultimate strategic position. That’s the trap that Iran has set for Israel in Gaza.

    Invading Gaza is a trap of which Netanyahu, Barak and the rest of Israel’s leaders are aware. Israel’s response to fire from Gaza has been extremely restrained over the last year and especially in the current crisis.

    The most effective traps, though, aren’t hidden or disguised. They’re the traps you walk into, eyes open, because you have no other choice. Operation Cast Lead was almost exactly four years ago – after the US Presidential election and with an Israeli election in the background. These are the times when no Israeli government can resist the pressure it faces from its people ....

  •  full ties with Iran (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    volleyboy1

    Obama offered to reestablish full ties with Iran, Israeli paper reports

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/...

    The firing of rockets into Israel and the mortar fire by the Syrian forces in Golan Heights are both part of the Isalmic Republics of Iran's message to the world that first, back off from Assad, and second, remove the the sanctions, otherwise the entire region will be set on fire.

  •  As ye sow, so shall ye reap. (0+ / 0-)

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:29:30 AM PST

  •  live blog Haaeretz newspaper (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco

    link here. for informational purposes, and without position on the source or subject.

    haeertez

    "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

    by BlueStateRedhead on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 08:52:18 AM PST

  •  This is a trap for Israel (0+ / 0-)

    This is an obvious provocation by the IRI (FAJR-5 made in Iran) and Israel is fully aware of this fact.

    For the sanctions to be removed, the IRI (Iran) needs a war.

    Why would Israel take the bait or would it? Would Israel attack Iran?

  •  "How did we get here?" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hey338Too, Laura Wnderer, A Gutin Daf
    A couple of moments ago I was sitting in my favourite Hummus place eating when the sirens went off. Everything and everyone simply stopped and looked up. The owner of the restaurant told everyone to leave the outside tables and stand inside but I wouldn’t do it, couldn’t do it, gotta show some kind of sign of I sat there sitting outside on my own listening to the sirens and waiting for them to stop. The boom, when it came was loud and nearby, a lot nearer than I thought it would be. Whatever, my Grandparents lived through the Blitz, I think I can manage this.

    I have my papers, come Sunday I’ll be all in green and carrying a rifle and I’ll still be wondering why all of this is happening. The rockets flying out of Gaza don’t do anything positive for Gazans, they bring the might of the IDF down onto Gaza killing and maiming everywhere. The damage that Hamas manages to cause to Israel doesn’t help Hamas. So now I have to leave my comfortable life, my nice job and my friends, put on a uniform and go into harms way and for what? We’ve been here before.

    http://hurryupharry.org/...
    •  First, great piece (0+ / 0-)

      Second:

      The damage that Hamas manages to cause to Israel doesn’t help Hamas.
      Sure it does - in a twisted Yankees-Red Sox sort of way. Part of how Hamas retains power is by showing off that it can give Israel a bloody nose.

      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

      by A Gutin Daf on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 10:46:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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