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Here's a bit of history Deir Yassin massacre

The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 120 fighters from the Irgun Zevai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Israel Zionist paramilitary groups attacked Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, a Palestinian-Arab village of roughly 600 people.[1] The assault occurred as Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem by Palestinian forces during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.[2]
Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.[3] Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.[4] Four of the attackers died, with around 35 injured.[5] The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community's main paramilitary force—and by the area's two chief rabbis. The Jewish Agency for Israel sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology, which he rebuffed.[2]
The deaths became a pivotal event in the Arab-Israeli conflict for their demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians to besmirch Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli Left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms, thus blackening Israel's name around the world.[6] News of the killings sparked terror within the Palestinian community, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.[2]
 I left the footnote markers in so that you know there is documentation on the source I linked.  My purpose here is not to try to justify killing on either side.  I have been to involved with wonderful people on both sides of this conflict and every death on either side is a source of real pain for me.  If you read on I'll try to make a point.

I don't think I stretch a point to compare the experience of the Israelis with that of the early United States.  Both were involved in conquest.  Conquest is not a very complex idea.  You take over another people by force.  They usually fight back and if you have the power you keep killing them until they stop.  After the United States killed enough of the people they conquered the war like killing stopped although it went on in other ways.  I find it hard to believe that the people we conquered have ever been happy with what we did or with what has become of those who remain conquered.  

We could go to a second conquest here in the United States and realize that we are still not over the conquest of the South by the North.  The feelings of so many in the conquered South are anything but accepting even today.

So now we look at Gaza and the Palestinians.  The parallels are many yet there are big differences too.  A quick glance at series of maps of Palestine over the years shows the ongoing take over of territory by the Israelis.  The Palestinians have little left and it begins to look like they may face eventual extermination if they try to stay.  Here the native population has had no where to go and has barely escaped extermination.  In the South things are different for obvious reasons.  

The world has been involved in the Middle east struggle for a long time and the Palestinians have been political pawns for a long time.  The Arab nations used them and so have others.

I did my post doctoral work in Israel from 1963 to 1965.  I studied the history very carefully before I went.  My experience there was a bit misleading for my mentor, Aharon Katzir-Katchalsky  

was murdered in a terrorist attack at Ben Gurion International Airport in 1972 in which 26 people were killed and 80 injured. [1] His younger brother, Ephraim Katzir, became the President of Israel in 1973.
.  He was a pacifist.  He was a kind, gentle man.  Those of us who knew him loved him very much.  He probably would have won a Nobel prize had he lived, but that is mere speculation.  In 1982 they had a commemorative meeting for him at the Weizmann institute.  On the morning we arrived the Israelis went to war in Lebanon.  I got to come home at the end of the conference because the airport was open for one hour just at the time of my flight.   War planes loaded with weapons flew over us as we held our meetings.  They were clearly less loaded when they returned.  An ironic stetting for commemorating a pacifist.

Once again I am sick from the news we get every day.  Both side claim a "right" to kill the other.  Where does any such right come from?  What right did we have to do what we did to the Native people?  Did they have a right to kill us?  These questions will never have answers for they are framed in a context that is wrong.  Violence is used either by those who  think they can get away with it or by those who think they can prevent further violence by using it.  Both ideas are insane.  We kive in an insane world.  Sometimes the pain is unbearable!

Poll

The situation in Gaza

9%3 votes
3%1 votes
12%4 votes
37%12 votes
31%10 votes
6%2 votes

| 32 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (16+ / 0-)

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 11:52:56 AM PST

  •  Obama made a funny (7+ / 0-)
    There is no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on from outside its borders,” Obama said Sunday in his first public comments on the fighting. “We are fully supportive of Israel’s right to defend its borders.
    McClatchy

    Somebody should tweet Pakistan.

  •  good diary (5+ / 0-)

    Except the North didn't conquer the South. The United States of America was attacked first by traitors, and ended that treason at considerable expense of lives.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 12:34:54 PM PST

  •  The situation in Gaza will continue (5+ / 0-)

    until total war in that area brings about the total annihilation of the Palestinian people.
    That seems to be the goal of Israel's  current leadership, anyway.

    Severely Socialist

    by ichibon on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 12:42:05 PM PST

  •  I reccd the diary, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    don mikulecky

    You write:

    A quick glance at series of maps of Palestine over the years shows the ongoing take over of territory by the Israelis.
    Upon which maps are you basing this idea? Land mass, total population, property ownership... there are a lot of different ways to define territory, and this diary could use more detail.
    The Palestinians have little left and it begins to look like they may face eventual extermination if they try to stay.
    Based on...
    In what ways and when have Palestinians lost land - I agree that some have, but I would like to know what facts you are using here.
    What do you mean by "extermination"? Are you of the opinion that the Israeli government is practicing ethnic cleansing? If yes, intentionally or unintentionally?
    I ask this because it seems to be that, if the intention of Israel was to either kill all the Palestinians or at least remove them from the land they are going about it very inefficiently.
    Here the native population has had no where to go and has barely escaped extermination.
    How do we define native population? How far back in history do we go?
    Engaging in the "we were here first" back and forth tends to make the overall situation in Israel and the territories worse rather than better. This is because as humans we often let emotions rule over rationality and it is very easy for both Palestinians and Jewish Israelis to make an effective "we were here first" emotional argument.

    The way this diary is written very subtly lays blame for the current situation at the feet of the last 45 or even 64+ years of Israeli policies. I am not sure if that was your intention but the style of writing and the selective quotes and points make that happen. For example, the rest of the Wikipedia page about Deir Yassin gives much better context about what was going on and just how chaotic things were between different groups of Jewish groups at the time.

    I recc'd, though, for your final paragraph, which I think raises the most important (and depressing) points about this whole situation.

    If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
    If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
    If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

    by A Gutin Daf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 12:45:08 PM PST

    •  You know you can have many takes on this (0+ / 0-)

      All of them spell the same thing.  That's why I wrote the diary.  When people take over places where other people live there is always conflict.  Trying to make morasl judgments is futile!

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:21:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the discussions is important (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        don mikulecky, JNEREBEL

        in order to figure out actual cause and effect instead of the cause and effect as presented by the propagandists on each side.

        It therefore becomes important to figure out whether the anger is about the State of Israel as a conqueror or whether that is just another excuse for even older conflicts and arguments. We also need to examine the role of outside actors in the Arab Israeli conflict - the way the US helps to maintain a power balance between Israel and Egypt, for example, in order to prevent either from getting too strong and destabilizing the whole enchilada (or ball of falafel, in this case).

        All of these things have to be part of a larger conversation in order to resolve the conflict, which also means that, if there are not facts to back up statements about, say, Palestinian extermination then those statements are best left out of the discussion about desired outcomes in the region.

        If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
        If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
        If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

        by A Gutin Daf on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:43:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This needs a book or two to deal with. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          A Gutin Daf

          Start with the Nazis but that also is a false start.  The Western anti-Semites pitted Jew against Arab to exploit both.  The whole history of Western Colonialism is at the root.

          An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

          by don mikulecky on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 03:08:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Colonialism played a part but just one of the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            don mikulecky

            tricky issues in that is that what happens now is affected by what happened the last time before the Brits that Europe tried colonial invasion in this area. It was called teh Crusades, and it lasted a hundred years or so, and then was gone as if it had never been, save in the romantic memories of Europeans who loved the idea of individual returning Crusaders, not what they did or what happened to the people they did it to, and what the response of that people was. Saladin was not an accidental discovery.

             The fate of that attempt at colonization changes entirely the analysis from anything North American, because in that case, those who were colonized, the ancestors of Palestinians, in fact threw out the colonists successfully and kept them out thereafter until WWI. That success on the part of the ancestors of Palestinians is something which present Palestinians know and respond to.

  •  you framing of emigraion out of Europe to (4+ / 0-)

    Israel, particularly from the 30's through late 40's as pure 'conquest' is rewriting history.  No, I don't downplay Jewish terrorism--but you also need to consider things like ethnic cleansing of Jews from the Old City and other such events.

    Much of the Palestinian refugee crisis also stems from major regional wars. Israeli territorial gains, and the desire to retain those in the interest of secuirty after such events is hardly suprising.

    •  re: major regional wars... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      George3, don mikulecky, bevenro

      Quest for the Lost Tribes had a segment with someone from Myanmar talking about "did you ever imagine that out here in the jungle a war between tribes would be all about how some of them are "Jewish," and "not from there" and need to be moved along?" It's been a long time since I saw that show and I don't know for sure if it's accurate although I think so. Eye-opening for me, who grew up thinking of "Lebanon" as a medium-sized town in NH.

    •  Let's go back to the real villians (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BOHICA

      The Us turned back boatloads of Jewish escapees.  The British are so anti Jewish that they stink of it.  And the French and the Polish helped the Nazis exterminate.  And so on.  This is so sick beyond imagination.

      An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

      by don mikulecky on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 02:24:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You can't remember the ethnic cleansing of the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      don mikulecky

      Jews from Jerusalem without remembering the ethnic cleansing of Muslims during and after what I remember as the 1967 war. Part of what was required by the Israelis in those days to reclaim Jerusalem for Jews. It was a miracle the Al Asqa Mosque and the DOme of the Rock were not torn down then as the Muslim quarter was.

  •  be strong friend nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    don mikulecky

    war is immoral. both parties are now fully complicit in the wars. bring everyone home. get to work.

    by just want to comment on Sun Nov 18, 2012 at 03:11:27 PM PST

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