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(Cross-posted from

It has now been 49 years since President John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Since then, thousands of books have been written about what is probably the single biggest unsolved mystery of the 20th century. After nearly half a century, it's becoming increasingly clear that we may never fully understand what happened that day.

I myself have long harbored doubts about the government's own seriously flawed version of what happened in Dealey Plaza. The 1964 Warren Commission Report has rightfully been criticized over the years for the inaccuracies and flawed information it contained.

The vast majority of Kennedy assassination books over the decades have concluded that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK. However, many conspiracy theories themselves have been debunked over the years. In fact, sloppy work by conspiracy writers has, in my view, damaged the quest for truth in the case.

Authors like Gerald Posner, who have worked to debunk conspiracies, have in turn been harshly criticized by the pro-conspiracy community. Posner's book, Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK was once praised as a solid rebuttal to the conspiracy writers. But in recent years, Posner has increasingly come under fire and his reputation has taken a beating (even among those who believe Oswald acted alone).

One problem that plagues works like Posner's book (as well as pro-conspiracy works like Oliver Stone's JFK film) is that the case is simply too vast and complex to be adequately addressed in a single work.

After reading numerous JFK assassination books over the years, both pro and con, I still keep an open mind about the case. I'm not 100 percent convinced, either way, although I do lean toward the theory that Oswald did not act alone.

In any case, there are still unresolved mysteries surrounding the JFK assassination that haven't been adequately explained to this day. Here are five of them.

1. What happened to Mary Moorman's missing fifth photo in Dealey Plaza? Moorman is known for her famous Polaroid photo that captures the JFK assassination at nearly the precise instant the head shot occurred. What is less well-known, though, is that Moorman took other photos that day. One photo she took moments before the assassination reportedly depicted the sixth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. The photo was reportedly turned over to Secret Service agents shortly after the assassination and vanished from sight. It has never been published and it remains missing to this day.

2. Why was Oswald's handwritten note to FBI agent James Hosty destroyed? Oswald wrote a note to Hosty a week or two before the assassination. Within hours of Oswald's death on Nov. 24, 1963, the note was torn up and flushed down the toilet by Hosty. Hosty had claimed his superior, Gordon Shanklin, had ordered him to destroy the note. However, Shanklin denied this. The lingering mystery, though, is exactly what the contents of Oswald's note were and why the note was destroyed in the first place.

3. Whatever happened to the mysterious "Babushka Lady," who was seen in the Zapruder film of the assassination? Zapruder's film depicts a woman wearing a head scarf who in turn is filming the JFK motorcade at the moment of the assassination. Given that the Babushka Lady is very close to the motorcade, her film would offer invaluable evidence if it could be located today. The problem is, shortly after the assassination, the Babushka Lady and her film vanished from history. In 1970, a woman named Beverly Oliver came forward and claimed she was the Babushka Lady and that her film was confiscated by the FBI. But her story has never been confirmed.

4. What happened in the mysterious death of Oswald's friend, George de Mohrenschildt? A noted member of the Russian emigre community in Dallas, De Mohrenschildt became an unlikely friend of Oswald in 1962. He testified at length before the Warren Commission in 1964. In later years, he became increasingly depressed and distraught and believed the CIA was persecuting him. On March 29, 1977, de Mohrenschildt was contacted by an investigator with the House Select Committee on Assassinations, asking for an interview. That same day, de Mohrenschildt was found dead from a gunshot wound. De Mohrenschildt's death has been called a suicide, but its timing does seem mysterious.

5. Did Joseph Milteer have foreknowledge of the assassination? 13 days before the assassination, right-wing extremist Milteer gave tape-recorded comments to a Miami police informant that eerily predicted key details of the JFK assassination. Milteer claimed that a conspiracy to kill Kennedy was in the works and described a scenario in which the president would be shot "from an office building with a high-powered rifle." Milteer also predicted that, in the aftermath of the assassination, the police would arrest a patsy "to throw the public off." Amazingly, the Warren Commission gave very little attention to Milteer's interview. Milteer remains a shadowy and mysterious figure to this day. His 1963 tape-recorded remarks can be heard here.

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Comment Preferences

  •  For what it's worth- (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, jayden, SherwoodB

    If it wasn't how they say it was- if it happened differently than the official story- the fog of time and history written, and re-written, make it a done deal.

    Fact is, he was assassinated and all the smoking guns, by now, have been wiped clean.

    Not to be cynical, but the pieces have never fit together cleanly; time isn't improving that, in my opinion.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21<> Bring the Troops Home Yesterday

    by Thousandwatts on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 01:55:08 AM PST

    •  This is CT fucking shit again (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DeadHead, Neuroptimalian

      Hide rated for being a fucking CT shitter on this site. Once again, I am disgusted at the content of this bullshit 'diary' and the lack of hr's.

      CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE NOT FUCKING ALLOWED. What part of that does the diarist not understand???????????

      Delete this steaming piece of crap now.

      "Too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others" Robert F. Kennedy

      by realwischeese on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 09:11:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  After 50 years... (10+ / 0-)

    It's unlikely the story will ever be unraveled to anyone's satisfaction.

    As the years have passed I've had an easier and easier time believing Oswald acted alone.

    If it was a US government conspiracy...and no reason that strikes me as convincing enough for such a dangerous coup d'état has ever been offered...I simply don't believe it would have remained a secret.  Unless you killed everyone involved, and then killed their killers, there are just too many places for it to leak.

    The idea that organized crime would have killed the President to scare the Attorney General...well, that also seems wildly unlikely to me.  If anything, it would have brought the full weight of the Justice Department to bear if Bobby had such a suspicion.

    Castro, as repayment for the many attempts on his life?  Well, that is slightly less unbelievable.  But do you really think our Castro obsessed Cold War era national security apparatus wouldn't have used that as an excuse to wipe him out, and possibly abrogate the Cuban Missile Crisis accord promising not to attack Cuba?

    That the investigation was so sloppy surprises me much less now than it did when I was younger.  I've seen plenty of sloppy investigations since then.

    The Magic Bullet still gives me pause, but on balance, it seems most likely that it was just one sick and lonely misfit responsible for the horrible events of Dallas.

    More's the pity.

    "I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."

    by Notthemayor on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 02:23:05 AM PST

    •  Getting Johnson into the White House (2+ / 2-)
      Recommended by:
      PorridgeGun, Eikyu Saha
      Hidden by:
      Mokurai, Neuroptimalian

      was worth many, many billions to the Texas arms companies.

      Kill the hit team ??? Of course.

      Vietnam was ramping up and that turned into the largest corporate welfare program since WW II.

      Jack Kennedy might not have been able to keep out of it, but he certainly would have kept Bobby on the job preventing outright contractor frauds.

      LBJ ??? Not exactly.

  •  The granddaddy of CT (21+ / 0-)

    shows up on a site that explicitly bans all CT.

    Got the popcorn. Wonder how this will end...

    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
    ¡Boycott Arizona!

    by litho on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 02:50:49 AM PST

  •  The Key Question is Solved (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:

    I am afraid anything I say will only tend to distract from the excellent work of the researchers, so here:

    Proof that Oswald did not shoot Kennedy, and that there was high-level involvement in the coverup.

    This page is tightly related.

    May reason prevail.

    Resistance Is Fertile - Occupy

    by Sean X on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 03:25:27 AM PST

  •  Hoo boy, CT for T-G! (15+ / 0-)


    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:01:23 AM PST

  •  Hmmmmm (6+ / 0-)


    Don't lead--I'll wonder off bored. Don't follow--I'll get you lost. Just walk beside me... & help me cause trouble.

    by khloemi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:41:54 AM PST

  •  Is this subject allowed here? (0+ / 0-)

    I always find it interesting, since I do believe there are things we don't know (though some believe they know everything).

    But it do get testy around here when these things come up.

    Ich bin ein Wisconsiner!

    by Apphouse50 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:59:04 AM PST

  •  Well ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Items 1-4 can be filed in the "Unknown, Missing or Gone and Therefore of No Further Consequence" bin (under the paper shredder).

    Item 5 - whether or not one finds CT claims of Right-Wing wing-nuts, living or deceased, credible is purely a personal matter, but 47% of voters bought the BS Mitt Romney was peddling  so the Joseph Milteer thingy is not totally hopeless for G-man Don Adams.

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:06:01 AM PST

  •  To lump Posner's book with Stone idiocy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sky Net, Illinibeatle, IndieGuy

    is to jump up and down on a table and scream "I'm an idiot! Pay not attention to me!"


    Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Palate Press: The online wine magazine.

    by dhonig on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:15:46 AM PST

  •  Lingering mysteries (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Frankly those first three look like pretty minor loose ends.  What happened to some bubushka looking lady?  Who knows.  I don't see any indication she had anything remotely to do with the assassination.

    The last two appear to be just a couple cranks.  If the Miami guy had some real knowledge of an imminent assassination attempt he could do better than "a rifle from a building".

    This has all been covered at length and the conspiracies have been debunked too many times for this still to be around.

    History will be kind to us because we will write it.

    by Sky Net on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:42:52 AM PST

  •  My substitute for turkey on this fine day (8+ / 0-)

    (Being a vegetarian and all.)

    Butternut Squash and Mushroom Wellington
    Time: 1 hour 15 minutes

    4 tablespoons butter
    1 small butternut squash (1 1/4 pounds), peeled, seeded and cut into 1/2-inch cubes
    1 teaspoon maple syrup
    1/2 teaspoon chopped fresh thyme
    1/8 teaspoon smoked sweet paprika or regular paprika
    1/2 teaspoon kosher salt, or more to taste
    2 garlic cloves, finely chopped
    1 large shallot, finely chopped
    3/4 pound cremini mushrooms, trimmed and roughly chopped
    1/3 cup dry white wine
    1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
    2 tablespoons chopped parsley
    1 (14-to-16-ounce) package puff pastry
    1 cup crumbled goat cheese
    1 egg, whisked with 1/2 teaspoon water.

    1. Heat the oven to 400 degrees and line a large baking sheet with parchment.

    2. In a very large skillet over high heat, melt 2 tablespoons butter. Add the squash in a single layer and cook, undisturbed, for 4 minutes. (If squash won’t fit in a single layer, cook it in batches). Stir and continue to cook until squash is golden, 7 to 10 minutes more. Stir in the syrup, thyme, paprika and 1/4 teaspoon salt; cook one minute. Scrape mixture into a bowl.

    3. Turn the heat down to medium and melt the remaining butter in the skillet. Stir in garlic and shallot; cook 1 to 2 minutes. Add the mushrooms and remaining salt. Cook until mushrooms are soft and their juices evaporate, about 10 minutes. Stir in the wine and cook until the mixture is dry, about 5 minutes. Stir in the pepper and parsley. Taste and add more salt if needed.

    4. On a lightly floured surface, unwrap the puff pastry. Cut into 2 5-by-15-inch rectangles. Spread mushrooms on each pastry rectangle leaving 1/4-inch border. Spoon the cheese crumbles over the mushrooms. Then spoon the squash over the cheese, leaving a 1 1/2-inch border (it will look like a stripe of squash lying on a bed of cheese and mushrooms).

    5. Brush the exposed borders of dough on each rectangle with the egg wash. Fold the long sides up to meet in the middle and pinch together to seal; pinch the ends, too. Transfer the pastries to the baking sheet and turn them over so that the seam is face down. Brush the tops with more egg wash. Bake until they are puffed golden, and firm to the touch, about 30 minutes. Let cool for 10 minutes, slice and serve.

    Yield: 6 to 8 servings.

    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
    -- Dr. Peter Venkman

    Join me, Anne C. Savage & LOLGOP at

    by Eclectablog on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:03:13 AM PST

  •  Vincent Bugliosi wrote the definitive book... (4+ / 0-)

    ...on the Kennedy assassination entitled, "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy," that comes to the conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald killed the president. There is no evidence of a conspiracy of any kind. Anyone who harbors doubts about this should read this book because Bugliosi debunks all of the conspiracy theories and comes to the only logical conclusion that is fully supported by the available evidence, that Oswald did it.

    •  I read Bugliosi's book. (3+ / 0-)

      Very, very well done.

      All the claims to know that somebody else killed Kennedy fell apart like dandelion sprays.

      But that's not the weakness of the Warren Commission work. The weakness is the shooting, itself.

      Oswald had a cheap bolt-action rifle, the infamous 6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38. No experienced shooter would have chosen a bolt-action gun to do multiple shots on a high value target.

      That gun is similar in power/recoil to American .30/06 deer guns. It has one helluva kick.

      The attack on Kennedy featured increasing accuracy as the bullets came in. That is not what you are going to get firing a 6.5mm. And certainly not with a bolt-action gun.

      No one has ever replicated the Kennedy shooting pattern with one bolt-action gun and on the first try. Third try, fourth try by professional shooters -- that's still a rare success. And Oswald never, ever in his life practiced against moving targets.

      None of which matters, except to understand that what we get to see of this world is what is constructed for us. History is a multimedia painting.

      We just had ShitMitt the Liar get within 64 Electoral College ballots of becoming President of the United States. He's a high function sociopath, a believer until recently that he is the "White Horse" Mormon messiah, and a woman killer (by very bad driving, Leola Anderson.) And people know no more about that SOB than we know about how kings are killed.

      •  I'm certainly no expert on guns, or shooting ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ... guns, but I have visited the museum that occupies the 6th floor of the former Texas School Depository building, looked down on the street below and the thing that stuck out for me was how close Oswald was to the president has the motorcade rolled past the building. The president was a sitting duck.  I also seem to recall seeing a documentary demonstrating that it is indeed possible to fire three shots accurately using a bolt-action rifle in the allotted time that it took.

        •  CBS replicated it. Third try by one of the dozen (0+ / 0-)

          professionals who got a crack at it.

          "Possible" is not the issue. Doing it on the first attempt -- that's what has never been replicated.

          Look up the ray-tracing emulations. The "magic bullet" theory in the Warren Commission work doesn't hold water either.

          •  Ah yes, the "ray-tracing emulations" (0+ / 0-)

            Hey look everyone, if we use a computer to make everyone sit straight up like action figures, then the bullet no longer travels in a straight line!

            This is probably one of the dumbest conspiracy arguments on record.  It's like saying that the WTC attacks couldn't happen because here's a computer "emulation" where the towers are cylinders 1m wide.

            Also, the "ray-tracing emulation" is one of the most widely and immediately debunked conspiracy arguments, so anyone who uses it is giving away a lot about where and how they get their facts.

            Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if someone says they have cancer. --jbou

            by Caj on Mon Nov 26, 2012 at 09:21:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  An Appropriate Response on This Day to This Diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    litho, Smoh, IndieGuy

    Happy Turkey Day everyone!

  •  i just want to know why jack ruby killed oswald (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PSWaterspirit, IreGyre

    it seems obvious that he had a job to do that day...the story about him being weepy over jfk never made any sense given his history as a connected criminal

    I've already forgotten who the Republican candidate was in 2012

    by memofromturner on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:18:57 AM PST

  •  At this point (5+ / 0-)

    I think we have to accept that we will never know many things or at least they will not be known in our life time. it is possible that there is something somewhere in some moldy file that will come to light someday.

    I will admit that living in the woods as I did most of my life, I have some really scary people for friends. One of them was a Vietnam era who grew up in Dallas as was in fact living there as a 12 year old when this all happened.

    This was a person who did more tours in Vietnam than any one with a lick of sanity would ever have managed. He was amilitary sniper. He was universally worshiped in my home town for his skill at deer hunting.

    He never believed the story. He knew the area he knew the gun, he knew the skill it would require. He said there was no possible way.

    I believe him. The after effect of this possible tall tale by our government is that in mass people stopped believing anything the government said.

    It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

    by PSWaterspirit on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:20:06 AM PST

    •  I have a friend similar to yours (4+ / 0-)

      He was a military sniper in Vietnam as well. He claims he was recruited into the CIA only weeks after Dealy Plaza, to carry out the same type of "jobs." How it was done and who was involved was common knowledge among his fellow "company" employees. He filled me in on so many details and his life story and so much more, that I find it very hard to believe he is in any way deranged or delusional. He is a top financial professional at a major financial institution. Hard to believe he could achieve and maintain that as well if he was a nut case.

      Just sayin'...

      no man is completely worthless, he can always be used as a bad example.

      by srfRantz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:42:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Being a psychopath actually helps (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        building a career on Wall Street.

        "Liar's Poker." Michael Lewis.


        George Anderson, for the Cioffi hit-and-run killing.

        Goldman, Sachs. The book out now detailing psychopathic treatment of the customer base.

        The lot of them. "Traders."

        •  actually its required (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SherwoodB, bontemps2012

          one of the details he gave me was how they vetted him prior to training, by giving psychological tests to find out if he was devoid of feelings, aka empathy with the victims.

          a very interesting guy and interesting story. of course, I still realize he could be making up the whole thing in some sort of Walter Mittyesque fantasy, having spent 40 years reading spy novels, and CT books until he knew it so cold he could spin it out like that in a sudden and unending stream without contradictions, with an answer to every question...but that's almost as unbelievable as the story itself...

          this was not a Wall St. guy tho. local bank, local guy. we'd known each other for years and talked about everything under the sun but especially politics and financial markets and about the collusion between the two. We shared a common rage at the way the game was basically fixed by a certain cabal, he had inside contacts there as well...and during the Bush years we both had a lot to talk about. then one day, after something I said, I think it was when I quoted the Jackson Browne song "Blood on the Wire:" "I want to know who the men in the shadows are..." He said "well we know now don't we?" meaning Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld etc. Then the tale came spilling out.

          The cold dead look that came into in his eyes was chilling. As he clearly went back to that part of his life and the mindset that ruled him then. I can still feel it.

          and then he switched back to the affable guy I had come to know and value as a dear trusted friend.

          so hard to say...very hard to say...

          no man is completely worthless, he can always be used as a bad example.

          by srfRantz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 07:43:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Details (0+ / 0-)

        Feel free to fill us in on all the details that were common knowledge.  No one else has been able to ever do that.

        History will be kind to us because we will write it.

        by Sky Net on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 12:21:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think you're conflating 2 of my sentences. (0+ / 0-)

          What I meant was that the hit on JFK being a CIA operation was common knowledge amongst other CIA operatives he met and worked with.

          The details I was referencing were details he shared with me about how he was recruited, trained and the types of things he did during his career which is what led me to take his tale with more than a grain of salt, tho I still remain skeptical, about all of it.

          However he did mention a few details about the assassination itself that he claimed he learned from fellow CIA who'd been involved, not directly, it was an outside contract, but in setting it all up and keeping the lid on it, as best as they could anyhow. 3 shooters, triangulating. Oswald not one of them. just a patsy. Ruby obviously sent to take him out to keep him quiet. but he was not the only one. In the following weeks 100s more innocent citizens were taken out in apparent accidents, apparent suicides, disappearances, and other staged "events" to cover the trails of the shooters into and out of the country. anyone who they came in contact with like bartenders, waitresses, hotel clerks, stewardesses who could place them at any point on the trail. He said they were furious they missed Zapruder and didn't get their hands on that film. I did ask at this point about the shooters, did they get taken out too. "Eventually" was his answer.

          Like I said it could all be something he put together over the years from other theories and books and the tons of crap out there and absorbed to the point of it being real to him or he at least had it so down he could spin out the tale like that so exhaustively.

          I also asked the obvious burning come he was still walking around? He said, "who am I gonna tell?" they know that know one will believe me. guys come forward all the time, they're just dismissed as consipiracy theorists."

          so look, I know its a mind fuck. it makes sense and it doesn't make sense. its a moebius strip of information that goes nowhere and everywhere.

          no man is completely worthless, he can always be used as a bad example.

          by srfRantz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 03:54:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sounds like a crank (0+ / 0-)

            The story doesn't even make any sense.  If you want Oswald to be a patsy why do you put three shooters at three different angles?  Any idiot could figure out he wasn't acting alone.

            As for Ruby, all the info is that he walked into the Dallas police station just a minute before Oswald came out, and if Oswald hadn't gone back to get a sweater he would have completely missed him.  Not exactly hit man style.

            If your friend wants to give up the names of the people that told him all those details, I'm sure there are investigators willing to follow up.  But I doubt he will.  Cranks always forget that kind of info.  And no, former CIA guys do not come forward all the time saying they have inside info on the assassination.  Your buddy's just lying to you there.

            History will be kind to us because we will write it.

            by Sky Net on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 04:21:38 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  the biggest tell for me seemed to be (0+ / 0-)

              the bit about the 100s of people killed in the following weeks. that's just nuts. why would they do that? only thing I can think is if they expected the Oswald patsy thing to never hold up, it was just to buy time, a diversion, AND someone saw one of the other shooters AND a real investigation got under way.... and even then doesn't that just widen the number of people who know something and are connected to the ever widening conspiracy? where does it end if you start taking everyone out and keep bringing more people in to do it?

              but there have been CIA that have come forward. Mr. X is a real guy. I've read his account. Philip Agee leaps to mind. I didn't mean 'all the time' literally nor did he. and he didn't mean specifically about the assassination either. that was hyperbole and I understood it to be at the time. those that have are demonized or marginalized or never even listened too and just dismissed as cranks so I think he kind of had a point. but I still felt it was a weasel answer...but then that's the whole deal with "conspiracy theory" and why it works both ways, for and against them.

              and again that doesn't jive with the other thing about them being so paranoid they take out everyone who may have seen the shooters en route...but they would let "whistleblowers' from inside just walk???

              it just goes round and round..the crazy.

              still you'd have to know the guy. just hard to believe he'd invent the whole thing and lay it on me like that. no motive. nothing else like that ever came up in any conversation ever. just weird.

              no man is completely worthless, he can always be used as a bad example.

              by srfRantz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:21:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Cranks (0+ / 0-)

                I read a great book a while back called Stolen Valor.  The author made it his mission to track down service records of people who claimed to be Vietnam veterans but really weren't.  He found all sorts of people who were otherwise fine upstanding citizens, but for some reason decided to claim they'd been in the Vietnam war.  Some people just like to be part of something big, I suppose.

                I'm in Australia now, and a recent scandal was the discovery that the head of the Australian WWII POW organization had never actually been a POW during WWII.  He'd claimed to be for decades and by all accounts was a great guy and had led the organization very well.  But he'd lied about his own military record practically his whole life.

                I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me to find out your buddy was never in the CIA or even in Vietnam, and certainly that he didn't have any of the inside information he claimed to have.  Sometimes the fantasy life is more interesting than the ordinary life of a banker.

                History will be kind to us because we will write it.

                by Sky Net on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 05:42:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  inclined to agree on the last sentence especially (0+ / 0-)

                  and that was my initial reaction. then I began to sway as I looked into it and thought about it...a little. for awhile.

                  btw, I found the guy again who was the inspiration/source for Mr. X.
                  name is L. Fletcher Prouty and he seems to have gone off the deep end at some point to full crankdom. Not CIA but a liason to them from the Air force. quite a distinguished career, as a Defense dept. insider. even taught at Yale at one point. a lot of credibility in his resume and a lot of what he has to say seems to make sense at some level, but some is waaaay off the deep end. unfortunately the stuff he said that seemed to make sense got more publicity than the debunking. (the former is how I'd heard of him originally and came to think he had some cred for a bit...and he seemed to corroborate my friend's story...could be where he got a lot of it...) there is a great little site that does a good job of the latter debunking. see the links at end of wiki article on him if you're interested.

                  no man is completely worthless, he can always be used as a bad example.

                  by srfRantz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 06:02:22 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  I hope everybody has (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a nice Thanksgiving.  

    If there is a promising trail of clues somewhere regarding the murder of John Kennedy, and some journalists want to follow that trail, more power to 'em.  

    A vivid personality was lost that day in Dallas.  There may be any number of reasons why one or more people wanted him murdered.  But we very powerfully doubt that any of those reasons justifies the act.  I miss -- and the nation needs -- vivid individuality in our public servants.  JFK was one such.  So was Bobby.  Both were taken from us.  We didn't neglect them; they were stolen.

    I like to think that Madison and Jefferson would rather have liked Kennedy, had somehow they could have known he would be president, and would have sensed in him a manifestation of the higher citizen, the informed citizenry they championed, the vigorous defense of crucial tenets of the republic.

    This is perhaps a day less for Macy's parade floats and NFL football than for a few minutes of listening time to Ronald Lo Presti's piece, "Elegy for a Young American."

  •  This is the way to do CT. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Remediator, SherwoodB, IreGyre, eyesoars

    It's not insane rambling Bachmaniac crap.

    And of course one helluva lot of Americans didn't believe the Warren Commission conclusions.

    Between the "magic bullet" and the increasing accuracy of what would have been rapid-fire shooting, shooting hobbyists generally rejected the idea of a single barrel doing it.

    But none of that mattered. Hundreds of people try to kill presidents. There's loony bins full of them. And the very rich could easily enough make nasty stuff happen. Happens every day, somewhere.

    One hopeful part of the aftermath is that Oswald's widow and his kids were only very lightly harassed. Looks in public, a phone call here and there. Sneaky stuff. No bullets, no firebomb, no kidnapping. No beatings. She remarried quickly, a couple years later.

    Americans treated this Russian girl, Marina, 99.98% just like anybody else. A whole lot of people also prayed for her. Imagine being in her shoes.

  •  That Poll-Unskewer Guy Should Look Into This (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndieGuy, PeterHug

    After all, he has experience substituting wildly complicated and internally-incoherent explanations for a simple and glaringly obvious reality.

  •  No. 6. What happened to JFK's brain? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PorridgeGun, SherwoodB

    Assuming it was well-preserved, JFK's brain could go a long way to confirming or disconfirming the theory of a second shooter in front, which many people, including some experts, believe is not done by the massive skull wounds.  But, of course, it apparently just "disappeared."  Why that disappearance doesn't raise suspicions among at least some of the believers in the standard theory is, IMO, another large mystery.

  •  Has anyone read Don DeLillo's (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    outstanding novel, Libra, on Lee Harvey Oswald?

  •  The sadness and dread never goes away (0+ / 0-)

    I keep hoping that before I die. . .. somebody will make a deathbed confession.

    One fact that shocks me = revelations by Mrs. Kennedy's secret service agent in his recent book (I met him at a book talk) light the secret service detail was. . . .They were overworked and stretched to the limit or beyond. . . .Hadn't eaten for many hours. . . . . Not at all the level of professionalism or level of preparation and detail work I always assumed the secret service had.

  •  Everyone is dead (0+ / 0-)

    The legend has served its purpose.

  •  of course you were lied to (0+ / 0-)

    james hosty was fbi agent in dallas assigned to oswald before the assassination. he certainly believed oswald did it, but he also certainly believed there was a conspiracy to cover up the truth. read his book if you think the warren commission got it right.

    assignment: oswald - james hosty

    then there is the demohrenschildt story. unbelievable that the worlds biggest loser would have a best friend like that.

    oswald the radar operator at a U2 airfield, the cia's best intelligence tool, who defects, and tells the american ambassador he is going to spill everything he knows, which was quite a lot, according to his commanders testimony to warren, and then oswalds re-entry into the united states, and the cia claims they didnt have a file on him.  angleton the cia chief of double agents was the warren commissions source of information from the cia. dulles - the guy kennedy fired - was on the commission, gave everyone a book on how assassins usually act alone.

    johnson to hoover nov 25 - we cant be investigating every murder scrape in the country.
    johnson to alsop - the president cant be involved in every killing, (as he is trying to manage the investigation.) (its a local affair - he said)
    johnson to warren - nuclear war is possible over the assassination (convincing him to take the job).

    all those quotes are in Beschloss - Taking Charge, the white house tapes.

    just read the wikipedia page on mkultra. get a feel for how much money, how long and how widespread it was.

    nothing i have written here is any dispute.

    its deep politics. you can safely ignore it. but it is one of the great mythic constructing events, like religions are, of the 20th century.

    douglass - the unspeakable, is considered the best of the most recent books.

    war is immoral. both parties are now fully complicit in the wars. bring everyone home. get to work.

    by just want to comment on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 09:02:53 AM PST

    •  Now that I think about it, you could imagine (0+ / 0-)

      a situation where the Warren Commission's unofficial brief was to make sure that their conclusion was one that would NOT spin the larger situation out of control, and as a result they conducted an investigation that would later appear to a paranoid mind like an intentional coverup, while at the SAME time the actual truth is that Oswald acted alone.

      If you're looking for believable CT regarding this, that would be the one I would go with...

  •  The Donahue Theory (0+ / 0-)

    Curious as to your opinion of firearms expert Howard Donahue's theory that the head shot was accidental, coming from a Secret Service agent's AR-15 in a car behind JFK's.  

    This theory and the story behind it is laid out in the book Mortal Error by Bonar Menninger.  Up until I read it, I'd pretty much been in the pro-conspiracy camp although my opinions hadn't crystallized into a specific conspiracy.  But on reflection, what I liked about the Donahue theory was that:

    * It limited itself in scope; instead of just arraying oddity after oddity about the assassination and offering an a la carte buffet of conspiracies to choose from based on those oddities, it only addresses one particular and principal aspect of the assassination and doesn't seek or address any other possible conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

    * It does suggest a conspiracy, but not a before-the-fact expansive one - rather, a small after-the-fact one for reasons that suggest not evil and hatred but compassion and remorse, centered not around massively powerful conglomerates or superpower nations but instead centered around a horrified Secret Service agent who was only trying to do his duty.  The latter seems more reasonable because it's not open-ended with interchangeable parties.

    * It presumes, but does not strictly require, that Oswald fired from the Texas School Book Depository.  The only requirement of the theory is that the agent who accidentally fired the head shot round did so while reacting to the sound of another shot, which is consistent with both Oswald firing a shot and someone else firing a shot.  

    * It accounts for itself (one benefit of having a limited scope).  I don't recall if it was Donahue, he and Menninger together, Menninger, or someone else who tried to find evidence of the existence of the AR-15 and found it in a photo taken near the Stemmons Freeway of the SS limo with the muzzle of an AR-15 in plain view.  The existence of the gun also shows up in Warren Commission testimony.

    •  Was the replacement of the Secret service (0+ / 0-)

      detail that would have gone to Dallas that day with a different one ever explained? Why it was done (if in fact this is true), who made the decision, who else knew details about this and are any of them still alive? Do not have links about this but ever since I heard this claim I did wonder....

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 10:07:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not concerned (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think the entire detail was different.  A number of agents might have been swapped out and in just due to scheduling and logistics, but that doesn't sound like anything unusual.  Clint Hill - the only agent to react with speed to the shooting (he's the one seen running to and climbing into the presidential limousine) - was well-known to JFK and the First Lady but his quick action was not necessarily because the other agents were sandbagging; it may well have been that of the few agents who were standing on running boards, he simply may have been the first one to correctly integrate what he was hearing and seeing by virtue of looking at the right places at the right times.

        The way I look at it, no "agent swap" conspiracy was necessary or sufficient for the assassination to succeed.

  •  I always favored the idea that (0+ / 0-)

    KKK elements in the Dallas police force knew about Oswald and just let things play out. To this day, the strongest motive for Kennedy's assassination is still the civil rights struggle. Kennedy had sent troops into Little Rock earlier in the year. Kennedy was widely reviled in the South for his emerging stance on civil rights, and th KKK was a pervasive and very violent organization that enjoyed a strong presence in the police forces of Texas. So the KKK had strong motive, opportunity and a record of assassination. I am always surprised at the absence of the KKK from these discussions.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 10:41:39 AM PST

    •  And you see shades of that today (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anne Elk

      When you take into account that since JFK, Obama is the first president for a large swath of America who isn't one of "theirs," ie, republican or southern.

      "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer

      by CFAmick on Thu Nov 22, 2012 at 11:02:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Must see video, best explanation I've ever seen (0+ / 0-)

    about it.  This ties all the players together with  known historical facts, not conspiracy.  It ties Bush, LBJ, Nixon, Connally, CIA etc all together.  Leaves out Oswald for the obvious reason:  not involved.

    I don't believe the poster is the creator of the video, it has text directing you to a web site which is right wing conspiracy.  I did a lot of searching when I first saw this, because the guy is very snarky an uses humor while explaining it, pointing out the lunacy of the accepted theory.

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