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... And the Sanford Police Department was Duped

Take a look at the results of George Zimmerman's CVSA Truth Verification test administered by SPD. It only takes a third grader to understand the test is fatally flawed. Or is it? Zimmerman passed the test with flying colors, but look again...

To this simple question, check out his response:

HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN OVER THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT?

NO

He passed! Is there a legally licensed driver alive who has NEVER driven above the speed limit? Not even once, perhaps? Yes! George Zimmerman. So he claims. This proves he knows how to lie and get away with it. Obviously, this guy is a seasoned pro.

CVSA test conclusion

********************


ZOC test results

From the defense Motion To Take Additional Deposition


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Comment Preferences

  •  Yo! And only one non-verifiable question (4+ / 0-)

    (assuming he's never gotten a speeding ticket) that relates to his personal conduct (as opposed to the color of the wall whether the examiner was wearing a watch, etc) other than those that related to the shooting.  And he failed it.  

    How about "Did you obey the dispatcher's directive to not pursue Mr Martin after you called 911?"

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 02:15:59 PM PST

  •  This is it????? One question on which he "lied"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buddabelly
    •  This is meant to be... (0+ / 0-)

      ... taken tongue-in-cheek. Of course he's lied in the past, so this just shows how adept he is at it. All it takes is one simple lie and he passed the "I Know How To Lie" test with flying colors.

      •  Oh geez. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        This shows no such thing, and it's not even close to being proof of anything.  The fact that it's even proposed shows desperation, which is indicative of an extremely weak case.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:33:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  it's not that he lied (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, Dogs are fuzzy

      The point is he lied and in doing so was not detected.  So there is no reason to think that other lies would be detected.

      •  'Duping Delight' was what a New Yorker article (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leighkidd, wilderness voice

        said it's called- some people enjoy deceiving, it gives them pleasure not stress.

      •  What is the evidence, ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        not to mention actual PROOF, that EVERYONE has knowingly exceeded the speed limit at one time or another?

        I happen to know a guy who religiously drives 5 mph below the speed limit and freaks out if he doesn't see signs regularly so he can confirm to himself that he's below the limit.

        Perhaps Zimmerman is naturally obedient, or perhaps so law-and-order-oriented that he actually never has sped ... and knows it.  And knows that to lie about that in order to try and seem average would reveal him to be a liar?

        The prosecution won't be stupid enough to try and make an issue of this, knowing they'll lose credibility with the jury and be laughed at outside the court among their peers.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:40:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know much about lie detectors (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Neuroptimalian, VClib

    But I don't think he would have had a reason to lie about that, AND I do know people that are that careful.  If he has never had a ticket, maybe he isn't lying about that.

    •  Polygraphs only detect stress. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pgm 01

      The assumption is that lying is stressful.  But to many people lying is not stressful, they are very comfortable lying.

      To very nervous people being questioned, the fact that a question is being asked to prove their guilt is sufficient to get a stress reaction which will show a truthful answer as a lie.

  •  Did he ever get a ticket? (0+ / 0-)

    If yes, you could prove he lied.

    Don't let millionaires steal Social Security.
    I said, "Don't let millionaires steal Social Security!"

    by Leo in NJ on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 02:26:23 PM PST

  •  Calling this "proof" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mookins, Avila, VClib

    is specious at best.

    Sorry, this dog won't hunt.

    Yes, Zimmerman very probably lied about never having sped, but this doesn't prove he made any other false statements.

    We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

    by raptavio on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 02:39:51 PM PST

  •  Lie Detector tests are VooDoo anyway (5+ / 0-)

    you would be just as accurate reading sheep guts on a stone altar.  But NSA uses a lie detector when deciding to grant Top Secret clearances.   And they coach you on how to pass the stupid test.  

  •  New pic of Zimmerman released today (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, Neuroptimalian

    or yesterday showing that he was bloodied pretty well.  there's very little doubt he'll be found not guilty.  put a fork in this case; its done.

    •  It does have blood, but I would still not say this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, coquiero

      is all over with.  There's still the whole issue of his pursuing Trayvon when specifically being ordered not to.  He went after Trayvon and I'd say a good case should be made it was Trayvon fighting for his life (and losing) that should hold sway here.  

      Photo is at http://www.foxnews.com/...

      •  that whole issue doesn't matter. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian, VClib

        the only relevant question for the jury is whether Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of death or serious injury.  

        •  So per the law he can attack someone and because (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, coquiero, Avila

          he's the winner he isn't "guilty" of murder?  That's not the understanding of the law that I had, though it's been a long time since the issue came up.  

          And my definition of attack is not whether or not Trayvon confronted him and they got into a physical combat, but attack as in stalking, running after him and basically making Trayvon stand HIS ground.

          The lawyers will frame it, but from exactly your wording, I'd have to say in my mind Zimmerman was not reasonably in fear of death or serious injury when he made the decision to hunt down Trayvon.  In my opinion (which may not equal the law), the whole incident was carried out at Zimmerman's instigation and he had no reason to fear Trayvon until they were finally in combat.  I don't know whether that means he should be found guilty of assault and battery, manslaughter, or what, but I certainly hope he doesn't get off scott free or there will be a bloodbath in Florida as people of all sorts start killing each other.

          •  the question isn't whether Z was afraid (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Neuroptimalian, VClib

            when he followed M, but whether he had reasonable fear at the moment he shot M.  Z's claim is that he was on his back with M on top beating him severely, and all the physical evidence we've seen bears that out.

            the legal question is solely whether the prosecution can disprove that narrative beyond a reasonable doubt.

          •  no, he cannot (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ColoTim

            per statute of second degree murder in Florida.  

            i actually think this is pretty simple, lawyers for defense notwithstanding.  why would one (GZ) pursue an individual (TM) if in fear for his (GZ's) physical safety?  why ignore stand down orders?

            really can't have it both ways.  

            Zimmerman pursued Trayvon  Martin (despite being told by 911 dispatch to stop).  if he feared for his life, does this seem reasonable?

            •  Avila - there were no "stand down orders" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila

              See my posts in this thread.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Wed Dec 05, 2012 at 08:04:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  VC, i take your point (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                ultimately, the jury will have to decide on whether or not the following is a reasonable course of action, weighed against claim of self defense.

                After discussing his location with the dispatcher, Zimmerman exclaimed, "Shit, he's running," and the following sounds suggest he left his vehicle to run after Martin.

                "Are you following him?" the dispatcher asked. Zimmerman replied: "Yep."

                "Okay, we don't need you to do that," the dispatcher warned.

                Several minutes later, according to other callers to 911 in the neighborhood, Zimmerman and Martin got into a wrestling match on the ground. One of the pair could be heard screaming for help. Then a single shot rang out, and Martin lay dead.  Source: Mother Jones

                now, the "we don't need you to do that" is not, by legal definition, a stand down order, but more cop parlance.  (i hear that phrase from my husband and his coworkers, but let's remember, Zimmerman called 911 frequently, and acting as neighborhood watch, although likely self appointed. unless one wants to argue the "no" was ambiguous, or subject to misunderstanding, et cetera.)

                the bigger picture is how Zimmerman's course of action is seen by a jury.  will they feel the above is reasonable?  

                •  Avila - the important thing is that there will be (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Avila

                  a trial and all the facts will be presented to a jury. I don't know how much the pre-confrontation facts will influence the jury and how much of it will be admissible. The challenge for the prosecution is what happened when Z and T actually confronted each other? Only one person knows the answer to that, and he isn't testifying.

                  "let's talk about that"

                  by VClib on Wed Dec 05, 2012 at 01:16:33 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Zimmerman was not "ordered" to do anything. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim, nextstep

        "We don't need you to [follow him]" is not an "order".  And even if he had been so instructed, dispatchers don't have the authority to order anyone to do anything.

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:45:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  ColoTim - those aren't the facts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim

        Z was never "pursuing Trayvon when specifically ordered not to". Specifically the dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that". The dispatcher is not a police officer, can't issue "orders" and his statement is subject to wide interpretation. The entire case revolves around what happened when the two confronted each other, not the events leading up to the confrontation. I do agree with you that the case isn't settled by "lots of blood" on Z, but it is a fact that will be an important part of the defense case.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Dec 05, 2012 at 08:02:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I saw that photo. (4+ / 0-)

      My questions would be why did it take months for this to surface? Who took the picture?  Was it a official police photograph?  None of it is relevant, however, because he pursued and confronted an individual illegally – that he might have got a bloody nose – so what?.  If I were in that position and some strange creep was harassing me I would have punched the asshole in the nose as well.  Zimmerman is a sociopath, a vigilante and a killer.  He was in violation of Neighborhood Watch rules by carrying a gun; he ignored orders to say in his car and DO NOT PERSUE. He shot and killed an innocent teenage kid.

      "If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. Isaac Asimov (8.25 / -5.64}

      by carver on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 03:13:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the prosecution refused to release it. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian, VClib

        defense finally got it via discovery.

        •  The prosecution refused to release it ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          because it makes their case even weaker than it already appeared.  First they released a xerox copy, then, when pressed, released a digital copy ... but it was grainy.  Only when compelled to provide an exact copy did the truth come out.

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:49:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  carver - Z's actions up to the actual fight (0+ / 0-)

        did not violate any Florida laws. Z was never issued any "order" to stay in his car. This entire case is about the confrontation between Z and T, the prior events will have no bearing because Z is claiming self defense.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Dec 05, 2012 at 08:07:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Call up Florida... (6+ / 0-)

      tell them they don't need to hold a trial johnny wurster has already told us the outcome.

      This makes about as much sense as Mike Huckabee on mescaline. - Prodigal 2-6-2008

      by Tonedevil on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 03:13:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That new picture isn't bad at all (4+ / 0-)

      A hangnail bleeds more than that.

      Much ado about nothing... no smoking gun/bloodied mess on Zimmerman with this picture.


      One may live without bread, but not without roses.
      ~Jean Richepin
      Bread & Roses

      by bronte17 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:22:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  About that picture (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila, Marinade Dave

      There are serious problems with the chain of evidence. That picture was taken by an officer on his private iphone. He downloaded it to his laptop, deleted it from his phone and then forgot about it for 3 weeks.

      Picture on the left taken at the police station at 11:21 pm that night. Picture on the right taken at 7:31 pm.

      Photobucket

      •  Those two pictures are not inconsistent (0+ / 0-)

        with each other.  I have personally seen on more than one occasion from around 10 feet away, a human pincushion act (see my reply to bronte17 above) with quite a bit more blood than that.  Yet absolutely no evidence anything happened less than a week later (she doesn't "clean up" immediately after a performance for some reason).

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:44:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  heh, when a third of your tags relate to your name (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nowhere Man

    6 out of 18, you might be interested in more than the truth and nothing but the truth......

    Truly funny, kinda sad......

    Plus, is it just my imagination or is

    Zimm v Slimm and Slimm v Zimm
    As disrespectful to the Martin family as it comes across?  Maybe I am a tich sensitive when it comes to dead kids but really.........

    Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
    I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
    Emiliano Zapata

    by buddabelly on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 03:19:25 PM PST

  •  Once Zimmerman dropped his "stand your (5+ / 0-)

    ground (SYG)" defense and decided to go the more common route of self defense, I was satisfied.  Whether he is found guilty or innocent, at least a jury of his peers will make that determination.

    It does give me pause, though, that he decided to go that route.  With the SYG claim, he would have no choice but to testify in front of a judge.  I gather that was something he was unwilling to do.  But why?

    So despite what Johnny Wurster says, this is not an open and shut case.  Otherwise, Zimmerman would have taken the shorter, much less expensive route in front of the judge.

    •  it'll be a lot easier to prevail at trial. (0+ / 0-)

      in the SYG hearing, Z had to prove self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence, while at trial the prosecution has to prove he didn't act in self-defense beyond a reasonable defense.

      the only downside to trial is that he'll have to defend himself in the inevitable civil suit when the Martins sue him, but it still makes sense to get this over with first.

      •  civil suit? (0+ / 0-)

        If Z wins the self-defense immunity, there will be no civil suits.  

        By the time a civil suit is filed, Z will be indigent and penniless.  The ink will have run out in his autograph pen.

        The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

        by Tidalwave on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:35:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Fists can be lethal weapons (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero

    How will the jurors view the colored photo of Zimmerman?

    How will the judge view that photo at  the immunity trial?

    This is no slam dunk, folks.

    Zimmerman answered 'no' to  ever speeding.  He probably thought was he ever caught for speeding?  I would be interested to know how many anxiety drugs  Z was on the nite of Feb 26th.   No blood tests so it is just his word.  Z is one cool dude who seems to lack emotion.  He could possibly pass a polygraph too.  

    I just hope the judge and/or jury gets it right!

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

    by Tidalwave on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:31:30 PM PST

  •  I am on a roll here... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avila

    I took the opportunity to read this motion last evening.   I seldom pay any heed to rumors but now I am wondering if the rumor that Dee Dee is 18 years old rather than a minor at 16 is factual.   I believe Zimmerman's defense would like to know the truth.   Why is Ben Crump not cooperating with law enforcement?   I realize he is representing the Martins but he has taken  on the role of being a spokesman for the state.   Why wont Crump pass over his recording device?   Why did Crump interview Dee Dee in the first place?   He said he did not trust Sanford PD so decided to prosecute this case by recording the interview  with Dee Dee.   This leaves one to wonder if Dee Dee  was coached into what to say.   Why was the audio recording edited??  What was finally passed over to the defense is barely audible.  Why??   Why is Tracy Martin hanging on to that PIN number of Trayvon's cell phone?

    If Zimmerman  is to have a fair trial,  let's be fair.  I am all for  looking at both sides of this case so would like some answers.  If either side has  nothing incriminating to hide, then why hide it?

    MOTION TO COMPEL PRODUCTION OF EVIDENCE FROM THIRD-PARTY

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

    by Tidalwave on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:47:45 PM PST

  •  "No Deception" refers to the subject of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avila, rubyr

    the examination -- the shooting-relevant questions. The speeding question was a control question. He was almost certainly either (a) expected to lie -- i.e., it was what's known as a "probable lie" question, or (b) told to lie, in order to get a baseline measure for his "lying voice."

    The analysis focuses on the difference in his reactions (here, voice stress, I believe) between relevant questions and control questions. The content of his answers to control questions does not matter at all.

    This is much ado about nothing, even if you give any credence to these exams, which I don't.

  •  Discovery released (0+ / 0-)

    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

    by Tidalwave on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:21:05 PM PST

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