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The meme du jour from the NRA is that crazy people kill people, not guns. All we have to do is stop crazy people from having guns, and the problem is solved. How do you stop crazy people from having guns? You find the crazy people. But how do you find the crazy people?

Do gun owners want to submit to psychological screening? Somehow I doubt it; crazy people are meant to be convenient "others". Men in white coats are supposed to take care of them someplace out of sight. They have nothing to do with gun owners. Gun owners will not want gun owners to be the main targets of a witch hunt for crazy people.

So who will be the targets? People who want to buy guns? Will the NRA and the gun manufacturers like the idea of more hurdles for people who want to buy guns? I don't think so.

How about all teenagers in school? Now you have a group people love to test, poke, prod, examine and discuss. A perfect group, with no legal rights to speak of, for a witch hunt.

Mental health screening of all teenagers will turn up all sorts of interesting stuff. It will turn up countless young LGBT kids who live deep in the closet in unsupportive families and communities. It will turn up countless kids who live quietly in horrific domestic abuse. It will turn up countless kids suffering from major depression due to poverty, abuse, minority stress.

It will turn up the underbelly of America. And probably cause a lot of teen suicides.

And then what? There won't be any way to predict which of these countless tortured young Americans will be the next mass shooter, beyond a couple of obvious demographic points: it probably won't be a girl, and it probably won't be a boy who doesn't have easy access to guns.

But what a lovely distraction from the NRA and the gun manufacturers!

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Comment Preferences

  •  Nuts with guns that are too easy to get (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigcath, niemann, Eman, SoCalSal

    "Guns don't attack children; psychopaths and sadists do. But guns uniquely allow a psychopath to wreak death and devastation on such a large scale so quickly and easily. America is the only country in which this happens again -- and again and again." James Fallows

    The 47% also "pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more" but when Romney does it he thinks it's a virtue, while when they do it, he thinks they are deadbeats.

    by jsfox on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:27:14 AM PST

  •  I disagree that mental health support for teens... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, winsock, johnny wurster

    ...will cause teen suicides.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:27:23 AM PST

    •  Having had homophobic "mental health support" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      indycam, Eman, JesseCW

      in high school, I -- who was a transkid -- beg to differ.

      •  I don't think your life experience means... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        winsock, johnny wurster

        ...that the mental health care and monitoring of at-risk teens should be off limits vis-a-vis the best chance to screen for violent personality disorders. It's certainly an important part of HOW to do it to avoid overreach into non-relevant, non-DSM issues, but the idea that because a good government program could possibly be implemented poorly we shouldn't do it, I can't agree with that in principle or in this specific case.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:44:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My life experience is *very* relevant (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          yet another liberal, JesseCW

          to the subject of teens at-risk for suicide.

          Mental health is not a hard science; it is not based on an understanding of underlying brain function; it blows around in political and economic winds. It is largely politics masquerading as medicine.

          The DSM changes in every edition. Homosexuality used to be in it, Gender Identity Disorder is currently in it, and that will be relabeled to Gender Dysphoria in the next edition. Generally the changes to each new edition of DSM add new drug markets for Big Pharma. The people who write the DSM are taken on junkets and paid handsome consulting fees by drug companies.

  •  So They're Going to Help Lobby to Expand Medicaid (6+ / 0-)

    which is the largest payer of mental health services, and expand mandatory mental health coverage of private and ACA exchange insurance?

    Glad to have the NRA on board!!

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:34:49 AM PST

  •  Guns make you safer (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atana, NancyK, niemann, JesseCW

    Buy some today.  Keep them at home.  You will be safer.  QED.  Any questions?  (this is my summary of guns make you safer "argument").

    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

    by yet another liberal on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:36:51 AM PST

  •  yeah, NRA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atana

    tell us your plan to stop crazies from getting guns. We will welcome any viable solution you have to offer...

    "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government" T. Jefferson

    by azureblue on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:39:47 AM PST

  •  Nuts with Guns are the problem. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigcath, atana

    "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty (John Boner, Paul Ryan, or Scotty Walker (pick your favorite) said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

    by Eman on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:44:08 AM PST

    •  Seriously. What is so hard to understand (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atana, winsock, Eman

      about this? Both factors (nuts and guns) feed into each other to create situations like we had yesterday. Yeah, we do need to fix our mental health system, but no gun rights advocate (especially not the NRA) is actually proposing anything specific about how to achieve that goal. So the "it's the crazies, not the guns!" meme becomes a useful distraction for them.

      "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

      by rigcath on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:47:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just don't even take their bait (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        atana, rigcath

        They have bogus arguments.  Feed them a more relevant argument.  It's a technique they use.  And remember: Guns make you safer, buy some today!

        Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

        by yet another liberal on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:51:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Don't rely on the NRA (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rigcath

        for proposals on anything.  I wouldn't say the same about all gun rights advocates -- not all of them are absolutists, unlike the NRA.

        Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

        by winsock on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:56:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  None of us are absolutists, really. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rigcath, winsock

          You won't find any gun rights advocates who think everyone should be allowed to own heavy artillery and explosive rounds for it.

          You'll find very few who think just anyone should be allowed to buy a machine gun.

          But, somehow, there's a whole crowd who lose their shit if you tell them they can't have a 30 round magazine but have to stick to 5 or less.  

          Suddenly, all regulations are infringement.  Never mind all the regulations they already agreed to.

          Outside of two small groups who aren't even talking about guns but rather raging about some mythical power icon/terrifying demon that lives in their heads, everyone agrees that this is about balancing safety and liberty.

          We just need to start having grown up conversations about where that balance point is.

          This place needs a PVP server.

          by JesseCW on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:06:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You won't find any gun rights advocates who think (0+ / 0-)

            Great opening sentence if it were true.

            But, as you point out further down:

            Outside of two small groups who aren't even talking about guns but rather raging about some mythical power icon/terrifying demon that lives in their heads...
            Yes, there ARE gun rights advocates who think they should be allowed to own heavy artillery and explosive rounds for it.

            Until those SILENT members of the NRA begin to speak out, withhold their dues, and STAND UP, the wingnuts who believe in absolute and unrestricted gun ownership will continue to drive the NRA message (while they condemn public school teachers as money-grubbing union hacks).

            "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty (John Boner, Paul Ryan, or Scotty Walker (pick your favorite) said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

            by Eman on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:31:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good luck actually finding them. (0+ / 0-)

              There are people who think we ought to restore slavery or end womens suffrage.  There are people who honestly believe the Earth is flat, or that aliens abducted them.

              They aren't politically relevant.

              The NRA is a corporate lobby group.

              It has about 4 million members...out of the 100 million Americans who own firearms.

              I have no use for it, would never join it, and don't honestly have much respect for those who do.  

              Its power, however, doesn't come from its members.  It comes from the arms industry in the form of checks for tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

              This place needs a PVP server.

              by JesseCW on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:40:56 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I am. (0+ / 0-)

        National fuck Health Service.

        Done.

        (But then, I never have been and never would be a member of the NRA)

        This place needs a PVP server.

        by JesseCW on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:01:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atana

      Because any nut can get a gun.  It's easy.  It's like buying candy.  It's all good.  It keeps you safe.

      Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

      by yet another liberal on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:49:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  How do you identify "nuts" ? ? ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atana

      First, look for a collection of guns . . . that will weed out a lot of people you don't need to worry about, and make finding the seriously dangerous nuts a lot easier . . .

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:33:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously (0+ / 0-)

        And such touching faith in the mental health community the NRA has. Given the rate at which new "diagnoses" are added to DSM I wouldn't be surprised if "Firearms Hoarding Disorder" or a paraphila called"Firearms Fetishistic Disorder" were added down the road.

        Be careful what you wish for, NRA.

  •  Addressed after Tucson .... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atana

    .... by the National Institute of Mental Health:

     "... mental illness contributes very little to the overall rate of violence ..." http://www.nimh.nih.gov/...

    A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged.

    by raatz on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:37:37 PM PST

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