Skip to main content

Well, lets game this out. Suggestions have been made that school teachers should be armed to prevent the killings of school children such as happened in Newtown, CT.  A Republican congressman from Texas said he wished the principal of the school had an M4 Carbine, which is used by U. S. troops. How would all that work out?

Well, the killer in Newtown was also apparently dressed in combat gear, bullet proof vest and such. Would teachers, then, also need to teach in bullet proof vests. I notice recently that most police seem to wear them in their regular duty. How about helmets? It might seem to get in the way of establishing a good relationship with kids, but who am I to say. My own kindergarten teacher wore a nun's habit, which made her kind of special. Would combat armor do the same?

Oh, and training. How much time should teachers spend away from the classroom and other duties to shoot at the range or even go through combat training? Would that make them better teachers, do you think. Or should they spend the time becoming better in their subject matter and pedagogical skills? A trade-off, I guess. Maybe they could use their new skills in movie theaters and churches. And the mall, I suppose.

Ten billion dollars or so should about cover the cost of the weapons and training for over 7 million teachers. In the first year. I assume you want training. Otherwise only about three and a half billion would do. New teachers would have to be trained each year also.

And then there is the question of securing the weapons in the schools. Of course, teachers could carry pistols on their hip - a nice fashion statement. But what happens if a 180 pound 12 year old decides to wrestle with a 120 pound teacher and gets the gun away? Good things, or bad? How about a group of five sixth graders? And if the weapons are secured in drawers? Well, 9 year olds are pretty famous for getting into things they shouldn't get in to. And very fascinated with things that go bang. Sounds a bit problematical. But weapons in locked drawers and cabinets are also a bit slow to deploy when needed?

Oh, and are we assuming all teachers are completely sane and stable? Always? I've had a few that were a bit flaky, though probably not dangerously so. Probably.

The next thing to think about is what would likely happen if a principal shows up at the door of a classroom taken over by an "evil doer". The bad guy (yes, likely a guy) is surrounded by kids. Does she shoot? And what if she hits a kid. It would be a pretty big decision, and my best guess is that she would not try to "take out" the potential killer, worried about missing and killing a student. Even trained police and soldiers are pretty careful about that. And the bad guy was probably expecting her anyway if all teachers and principals are required to have guns available. It seems like not a good scenario. In New York City, where the police do have weapons training, they seem to have a pretty poor record of hitting the right people and missing the others. Can we expect more of a teacher? Just asking. How much "collateral damage" could a teacher be expected to accept?

And do we need to indemnify teachers who shoot students as we indemnify police? And expect that there won't be lawsuits? And of course, accidents with guns are so very rare that we can ignore that issue. Seven million guns. What could go wrong?

But then the police do arrive on scene. However, they know that there are 30 or so amateur shooters in the building along with an attacker or two. So what do they do? I think that standard protocol would suggest they wait until it gets very quiet before entering. And who do they consider to be the perpetrator? Anyone with a gun? Yes, most likely. And does that speed or slow aid to the wounded?

The argument is made that if we only just arm everyone then incidents like this will never occur. If there are a lot of guns the bad guys will not dare to attack. Well, we do have a lot of guns. Everywhere. And these attacks do occur and none of the attackers has ever been brought down by a civilian. In the attack on Gabby Giffords and others in Arizona, a "good guy" with a pistol very nearly killed an innocent bystander in a case of mistaken identity. At the last instant he decided not to shoot (point blank), which saved both of them.

I find it really hard to imagine arming teachers as a solution. Probably it is best to leave professionals, both teachers and police, to do the jobs they were trained to do and leave the other bits for other professionals.

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Got one in southern Oregon - conservative country. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    themis, Matilda, Andrew F Cockburn

    They will be crawling out to defend thier right to be able to kill anyone who offends them, scares them, denies them, is of a different politics, is in thier way, leaves them, ignores them, fires them, etc...

    Fear is the Mind Killer...

    by boophus on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:45:21 PM PST

  •  Somebody needs to ask people like Huckelberry and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    themis, Andrew F Cockburn

    Goober if they would send their own children to a school where teachers, even coaches at sports events, were carrying weapons that fired about 10 rounds and could be reloaded with another 10 in a matter of seconds.

  •  The killer's mother was armed to the teeth (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    themis, Andrew F Cockburn, Sue B

    and he shot her in the face. Do we want to send our children to schools where the teachers sling assault rifles over their shoulders next to their bookbags? No thank-you. Again, Nutcase NRA more-guns-save-lives logic fails.

  •  The "other" side in this argument are stupid (5+ / 0-)

    fucks. I just can't stand them anymore. Friends, relatives; I just don't care anymore, I have nothing but contempt for them. There can be no rational discussion with these people. Post after post on FB on how God would have stopped the shooting if we forced the kids to pray and read the bible in school. A conservative lawyer saying that people could just use cars to run over kids if they didn't have guns. Right, when has that ever happened.

    They are never wrong and everything is someone else's fault. My only goal in life is to defeat their party in every way, shape and form.

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:57:16 PM PST

  •  Does the NRA Support Nuclear Bombs for All? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    themis, Andrew F Cockburn

    Because if the best way to ensure peace and civility is to make sure that everyone is armed, then we need to start giving all of these poor nuclear deprived nations Nukes to call their own... all in the name of world peace.

  •  Can we kill this trope now? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matilda, Andrew F Cockburn

    Arming teachers (or convenience store workers, or bank tellers, etc.) is the heights of foolishness. Show me legitimate data that demonstrates something beyond a straight correlation that having more guns increases the likelihood that I won't get shot.

    I teach at a university, and after Virginia Tech, there was discussion about allowing carry-conceal permitted students/faculty/staff to be armed on campus. We discussed for about 2 minutes, dismissed it as stupid, and moved on.

    The day I have to be concerned about my colleagues or students packing? That's the day I quit.

    The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

    by themis on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:21:36 PM PST

  •  Arming people who do not have access or the skill (3+ / 0-)

    set to handle such a responsibility under stress will fare worse as their reaction time, judgement, and lack of practice would yield a far more tragic result.  

    Example:  Most without the training would never give thought under those circumstances of what just is beyond the intended target through a wall, or outside a window past the target.  A bullet cannot make that determination of what is there as well.

    “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    by LamontCranston on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:26:01 PM PST

    •  Then we just mandate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Andrew F Cockburn

      training for teachers...

      That's their argument. And it's just as foolish as the idea itself.

      Just wait for the first professor to be killed because a student failed a test.

      The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

      by themis on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:31:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. A trained killer (Navy Seal, for example) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      will have nothing to fear from an amateur. Real life is not a movie.

      The Fort Hood shootings, in which a single guy killed 13 soldiers, is an example of how hard it is to respond to sudden violence.

      •  Again, the situation, as it has been in similar.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Andrew F Cockburn

        tragic events, was an environment where nobody would have ever expected such behavior, from anyone, anytime.  We cannot arm "our world" for all to feel protected as it won't work as I mentioned in another post.  The root of the problem(s) in our current society is where we need to go after, and remedy.   This will take time, and with serious solutions, and consequences for some as well.

        We need to rid our "romantic impression", and misconceptions of living with violence in our society.

        “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

        by LamontCranston on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:56:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  for that matter (0+ / 0-)

    gun issuance should be mandatory for all citizens and green card holders at the age of 12- whoops- the tea party wouldn't go for the green card holders

  •  sounds like gohmert's (& the rw's) argument (0+ / 0-)

    basically comes down to who's going to "inconvenience" who.  

    iow, teachers, parents, students -- & everyone else but gun owners -- should bear the burden of inconvenience, so gun owners' aren't bothered by cumbersome obstacles to using firearms.

    it's a classic case of the tail wagging the dog.

  •  Good analysis, highlights Gohmert's stupidity (0+ / 0-)

    It says something about the Gohmerts of the world that they think firearms are magic talismans and can't or won't do the thinking to avoid making bad situations worse.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site