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Pro-gun advocates argue that gun owners are protected from being killed by keeping a gun in their home.  QUITE TO THE CONTRARY, Mrs. Lanza's Sig Sauer, Glock, semi-automatic Bushmaster .223 assault rifle and shotgun unfortunately were the instruments of her death.

Guns in the home cause many intentional shooting deaths, most frequently by people known to or related to the shooting victim (in addition to accidental shooting deaths). Guns in the home do not prevent deaths nor protect the people living in the home.

I personally went through a phase in my teenage years where I was fascinated by guns and rifles.  Later as a young adult I legally purchased several rifles, enjoyed having and cleaning them, went target shooting frequently and even tried out for my college's rifle team.  Looking back I see myself as truly fascinated by them....something about the feeling of power they instill and the romance of "weapons" created by Hollywood. At some point though I saw how having guns in the home set the stage for fateful and catastrophic emotional actions.  

Guns are for killing.  Homes are for protection from the elements, for sharing love, for teaching our children, for mutual support, for rest and  for happiness. The two are mutually exclusive.
   

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Comment Preferences

  •  shot in the face by her own delusion of "survival" (9+ / 0-)

    that's wingerism in a nutshell.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:17:39 PM PST

  •  A "responsible" gun owner (13+ / 0-)

    has their guns unloaded, seperated from ammunition and locked tight in a safe box, where they are completely useless for self defense.

  •  A gun saved my life. (4+ / 0-)

    I was 13 in 1977, the year Star Wars came out.

    I'd rather not repeat the posting made earlier today so please take a moment and read my experiences at that ripe old age.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Understand that I too agree that guns can only kill but they can be a useful tool when truly needed.

    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

    by gerrilea on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:23:12 PM PST

  •  All we really know about that woman is she's dead. (4+ / 0-)

    The media feels obligated to report something, anything. Let's just let her rest in peace.

    •  I am sorry but (0+ / 0-)

      we know that one of her guns was used to commit mass murder. She won't, as you term it, "Rest in peace," until the case is closed.

      In my opinion if a person is dead they are already resting in peace, but that's not what you meant, I think.

      Facts matter. Joe Biden

      by kpardue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:24:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very common for a gun to be used on its owner (10+ / 0-)

    Even more common for the owner to kill some other family member.

    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore

    by Minerva on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:38:22 PM PST

  •  he did not have an assault rifle... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerrilea, BlackSheep1

    had he had one it may have been much worse. He had a rifle...assault weapon is a political term.

    •  not "political", descriptive (13+ / 0-)

      The shooter had a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle which has a 30 shot capacity. He had hundreds of rounds of ammunition in spare magazines.

      There is no other purpose for this particular weapon other than "assault". It is designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings.

      In this case, the shooter used his weapon to shoot a hole in the front doors of the school big enough for him to gain entry. Then, he used it for its true purpose; to take the life of several dozen human beings. In this case, 20 children and their teachers.

      I think it's fair to describe this rifle as an assault weapon.

      •  he said assault rifle...see my answer below (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annecros

        most folks cannot and do not own select fire rifles, known as assault rifles ...they are too expensive and too restrictive to obtain.

        The rifle does not have a 30 shot capacity...the magazines may.

        I am all for banning high cat magazines...no hunter needs more than a 10 round magazine IMO.

        These rifles are activly used by hunters of varmints and for competition shooting so they do have other uses FYI.

        If we cannot speak accurately to what we are trying to achieve we can expect to achieve nothing.

        The term assault weapon was and is a political term...this killer's rifle doesen't do anything that a hunting rifle in the same caliber can do...if the legislation proposed by Diane Fienstein does only what her last 'assault weapon' ban proposed then it is useless.

    •  Thanks for the NRA talking points (0+ / 0-)

      wonderful when you see semantics twisted by the pros, with so many amateurs around. Is that genuine Luntz?

    •  Good luck getting people to say (0+ / 0-)

      "semiautomatic rifle with a high-capacity magazine".  

      And to call such a weapon "a rifle" is much more misleading than calling it an assaullt weapon, it's like calling the hand-and-a-half sword in my closet "a knife".  

  •  descriptive in a slanted way: fearmongering (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annecros

    but that's all right, you're talking about a firearm in a diary predicated on the notion that all firearms are inherently evil.

    A Bushmaster is not an assault rifle.
    It looks similar to one. It operates on the same principle but is limited in action to no more than one round downrange per trigger pull.
    You cannot "spray" with it.

    An Assault Rifle is an M-16 or a Browning Automatic Rifle. Pull the trigger. Hold it down. It will fire repeatedly until the supply of ammo runs out. You can indeed "spray" with it.

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:59:39 PM PST

    •  I call your resort to technicalities, and raise... (10+ / 0-)

      you a BAR, which is a light machine gun, not an assault rifle.  Everyone's ignorant in his very own special way.  

      It is fair to call the Bushmaster an assault rifle, and I spent a long time carrying one as a work tool.  For guys who actually use these things, the ability to go full auto is just about the most useless feature on the gun.  There are almost no situations where it makes sense to move the selector over to full auto.  Aimed shots, aimed shots, aimed shots is the mantra of the shoot house...not go full auto.   You're thinking of Al Pacino in Scarface.  

      I really can't stand the way the gun guys wait for technical errors, and then pounce on the poor guy who somehow called the wrong weapon an assault rifle, or confused magazine and clip.  

      To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

      by joesig on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:39:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you. /nt (6+ / 0-)

        Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

        by jan4insight on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:43:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, thank you^2. nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joesig
      •  Carried a .38 revolver every day in the AF, (0+ / 0-)

        regularly also carried and daily used an M-16, fired, trained with and taught the M-60 machine gun.
        Fully automatic fire on the '16 -- and I far preferred the pistol.
        The principles remain the same:
        Good sight picture, breath control, smooth motion on the trigger.
        One round, one hit.
        Center of mass.
        Stopping power.
        Check downrange before you shoot.
        Reduce/eliminate collateral damage.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:24:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You taught one round, one hit...on full auto? (0+ / 0-)

          Please.  

          Your comment annoyed me because it is so damn typical of the gun crowd here, looking for minor errors to use to attack opponents as ignorant.  Your BAR comment was ignorant.

          The anti-assault rifle crowd is correctly using the Supreme Court definition for pornography--you know it when you see it.  I'm not interested in the technical definition of assault rifle, as defined by gun porn.  The Bushmaster is an assault rifle.  Period.  In my previous job, in Afghanistan, I ordered the M4s for my company--we declined the offered military M4s.  The semi-auto M4 I purchased was a far more efficient and deadly weapon than the full auto military M4.  Better barrel, piston driven, mods that made sense.  Don't tell me one was a deadly "assault rifle" while the other one was a civilian toy.  

          Guns are tools.  Don't try to confuse the issue.  

          To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

          by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:49:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I said I preferred the pistol for accuracy (0+ / 0-)

            and controllability. Your inference otherwise and your further accusations toward me are really good arguments that I should not expect reason or openmindedness from you.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:06:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  M4 is far more accurate than the pistol. (0+ / 0-)

              And far more controllable.  

              I'm pretty reasonable, and pretty openminded.  And you never addressed my original comment--you accused someone of not knowing details of assault rifles, while calling a light machine gun an assault rifle.  

              Sorry if you're offended.

              To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

              by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:16:52 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  do you dispute that an assault weapon must be (0+ / 0-)

                capable of automatic fire?

                The BAR is the oldest such man-portable weapon of which I am aware.
                Ideally it's crew-served, like the M-60.

                LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:21:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Practically, or technically? (0+ / 0-)

                  If there's a recognized technical description that has been canonized into complete acceptance.....then the definition is what that definition is.  On the practical side, there is absolutely no requirement for an assault rifle to be capable of fully automatic fire.  As proof, for years (and maybe still) the M16A2, the official assault rifle of the US Army did NOT have full auto capability--single fire and three-round burst only.  So I guess by definition no full auto is required for an assault rifle, at least as defined by the US Army.  

                  And as I said in an earlier post, as a practical matter I have carried great assault rifles (M4s) that were civilianized--no full auto available, or wanted.  

                  And when I carried the M-60, much earlier in my career, it was an individual weapon, not crew served.  We took pride in that, and sort of made fun of the Army's concept of the 60 as crew-served.  Of course, we were never in defense, and never static, so we had that luxury.

                  To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

                  by joesig on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:53:53 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We have different experiences. In my USAF days, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joesig

                    the M-16 would empty a 20-round magazine for a single trigger pull. The selector had three settings: safe, single, and auto. Unlike the Army contingent from Fort Polk who trained on our range, we had very few A-1s and my NCOIC worked hard to get every single one of them sent to depot for replacement with non-forward-assist weapons.

                    My favorite variant of the Colt-made gas-operated 5.56 automatic rifle was the GAU-5 carbine, because I could actually tailor its stock to fit me, giving me what I felt to be better control of the firearm. I've since been informed that such stocks can now be fitted to "standard" AR-15/M-16 weapons.

                    Our M-60s were supposed to have 3 people per, but some AFSCs had to qualify on it with pair / single operators (you're supposed to stop at a 4-round burst with it lest you melt the barrel); in actual use we were supposed to be doing airbase ground defense with it, so it would be mounted on a vehicle or in a static position.  In my experience it really did qualify as a "machine gun" ... but it can be fired, by a sufficiently trained person, in much the same way a rifle is.

                    Thank you for your service, and for sharing your experiences with me.

                    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                    by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:17 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think it's a difficult time to talk about guns. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BlackSheep1

                      I stayed almost entirely out of the gun/RKBA talk today; feelings are too raw.  

                      And thank you for your service, although I always feel sort of odd when someone says that to me.  I had a great time, always, and it never felt to me I was doing anything other than exactly what I wanted to be doing.  

                      To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

                      by joesig on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:47:11 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •   Up until I trashed my knees, I felt (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        joesig

                        the same way --- at least most of the time. I'm pretty sure Strategic Air Command didn't expect to provide me with anything like the adventures they did...

                        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                        by BlackSheep1 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 09:49:47 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Cut it out. Trying to derail a discussion through (8+ / 0-)

      bullshit "technical gossip" like you are trying here is still diary hijacking and impolite.  

      •  Sadly, it's done all too often here (5+ / 0-)

        by RKBA-types. Notice he never tells us the correct term to use for the .223 - just everything wrong with the way we, and everyone else, describe it.

        Also notice he starts out with a massive and unjustified assumption ("all firearms are evil") about the diarist's motive.

        The last couple days have brought us a welcome respite from the RKBA's usual bullying tactics, but I knew it was too good to last.

        Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

        by jan4insight on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 10:17:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The correct definition? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          annecros, Cedwyn, BlackSheep1

          A semi-automatic rifle with a high capacity magazine. There's nothing special about the rifle, except the looks, which are military in appearance, that make it any different from any semiauto rifle any hunter would own. The caliber isn't even anything special.

          It's the high-capacity magazine that's the problem.

          Incidentally, I'm Canadian and in favour of gun regulation, so y'know, just to cut off that knee-jerk reaction.

          There's a reason the terminology is important. Let me put it this way: insisting that the terminology isn't important is like saying that there's no need to make a distinction between, say, penicillin and speed. They're both drugs. Both can kill you. Both work be altering the chemistry within the body by introducing an external element. I suspect that trying to "ban all drugs" would be a tad counterproductive, right? On the other hand, getting people to ban the drug that has no practical value, is much more dangerous, and whose use is by far more dangerous, that's a lot easier to get people to get behind.

        •  "He" will tell you the .223 Bushmaster is a (0+ / 0-)

          SEMIAUTOMATIC rifle.

          Pull the trigger. Send a round down range. The gas-operated AR-15 variants then use an internal mechanism to remove the spent casing from the chamber and strip the next round from the top of a spring-fed magazine.

          No different thus far than the M-16 I used to make my living with.
          But you cannot fire the Bushmaster or any other AR-15 more than once per trigger pull as sold by the factory in the USA.  A change to the internal sears to permit full-auto is required.

          Machinists can do this -- so can gunsmiths, but this is not a legal modification in the US and I know of no state that would not require the gunsmith to refuse under existing (I believe Federal, but haven't looked up the cite in years) laws and contact police.

          There may be a very few  folks who alter these components by hand, with hand tools. Some people who claim they can advertise in magazines or over the Internet. Being somewhat familiar with the internal components of the M-16 lower receiver and the AR-15, I would not waste my money on such claims, and I would not trust such a modified firearm not to fail in use.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:32:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  The NRA stands up for poor (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharon Wraight

      misunderstood instruments of mass murder. It is cool that you can fabricate new definitions when you need to protect you beloved killing utensils from descriptions that make people love them less.
      Thanks for your concern.

      •  Cool with you to mislead, or use untruth (0+ / 0-)

        to persuade people your fears trump their Constitutional rights?
        Gotcha.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:34:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not only did her gun ownership not protect her - (10+ / 0-)

    it led to the arming of a mass murderer.

    This says it more succinctly than I can, and I believe it's really something to think about:

    Handmade holiday gifts from Jan4insight on Zibbet. Get 10%off everytime with coupon code KOSSACK.

    by jan4insight on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:33:02 PM PST

    •  Good point (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, myboo, nellgwen, WakeUpNeo

      I hope everyone with an automatic weapon thinks twice -- about who might have access to it, about what might happen in the event of an argument, about what might happen if guns and mental illness mix.

      The civil rights, gay rights and women's movements, designed to allow others to reach for power previously grasped only by white men, have made a real difference, and the outlines of 21st century America have emerged. -- Paul West of LA Times

      by LiberalLady on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 10:15:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sheesh, that's simply because she didn't (0+ / 0-)

    have * enough * guns!

    Get with the program - everybody should know by now that  guns are like tax cuts insofar if either causes a problem, that problem with not have occurred if either had been more widely and enthusiastically embraced and put into action.

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