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West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, repeats his pledge from earlier today to seek changes in our nation's gun laws in response to the Sandy Hook shooting:  

Manchin said that he believed it would be possible to put in place new regulation without threatening the Second Amendment and that he hoped the NRA would participate in a "reevaluation" of gun laws. Manchin said he believed the response needed to be about more than just guns, but said he would work with his senate colleagues on gun legislation, including California's Dianne Feinstein.

"I don't know anybody that needs those multiple clips as far as ammunition in a gun," Manchin said. "The most I've ever used in my rifle is three shells. Usually you get one shot, and every seldom ever two." The belief that you need more, "doesn't make a lot of sense."

Full transcript below the fold.

JOE MANCHIN: Andrea, it's changed me.

I don't think there's a West Virginian that I know, and not a person living in my state that hasn't been moved by this horrific crime against our children, and we've never seen this happen before, nor could we ever expect anything like this to happen. So, I think it has changed, from the standpoint of we as adults should come together.

One of the promises we make to our children—one of the five promises Colin Powell talks about—is every child should have a safe place in their life, where harm cannot enter or do them any danger. And sometimes it's not always at home. Usually it's always the school, and that's been taken away from us. So we have to reevaluate.

As you said, i'm a life member of the NRA, and proud member. And i want to bring all my friends in the NRA in on this discussion. They need to be part of this dialogue of how we move forward. can protect the Second Amendment rights. We definitely can protect it and we will protect it. But we can also look at ways we can make our country and our children more safe. I really believe that we can sit down and have that dialogue and hopefully movement on that.

[...]

ANDREA MITCHELL: How is this going to be different?

MANCHIN: Andrea, never before in my lifetime—I've seen a president get assassinated. I've seen attempts on a president. I've seen Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy get assassinated. I've seen the violence at the other schools. Never have we seen this many children—babies of ours—ever be in this horrific, horrific crime against them, and a tragedy. I can only imagine the pain, the suffering, families are going through. How do we reach out and help them? This has affected all of us different than anything has ever affected me, and I'm sure other people. But this is bigger than just guns, Andrea. We're talking about how we deal with mental illness. How we protect our children. How do we change this culture of violence?

My friend Joe Lieberman, just a beautiful person. And Joe's right when he says this should be looked at in a bigger. How do we even glorify some of the violence that we promote? And we sell games encouraging these types of, everything needs to be evaluated and talked about, who we are.

[...]

MITCHELL: On the narrow issue of guns, are you willing to work with Dianne Feinstein and try  to do something about these semiautomatic, these weapons of war, as Mike Bloomberg called them on Meet the Press?

MANCHIN: Well, what I've said, Andrea, as you know, I'm a hunter, I just came off of a hunting trip with my family—deer hunting. And I don't know of anybody that goes hunting with an assault rifle. I don't know anybody that needs those multiple clips as far as ammunition in a gun. The most I've ever used in my rifle is three shells. Usually you get one shot, and every seldom ever two. This doesn't make a lot of sense, and this has to to be brought to this level, and it's a shame. An absolute travesty to this country and who we are as Americans to bring it to this level, but I'm going to speak on it. And yes, we're looking at everything, not just the guns, but yes, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer talking about the multiple clips as far as rounds and clips, Joe Lieberman talking about putting a blue ribbon panel together, all this needs to be done. And it just really has changed us. It's changed me.

Originally posted to The Jed Report on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  We'll see (9+ / 0-)

    The NRA is far more powerful than Joe Manchin.

    Let all the Bush tax cuts expire

    by Paleo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:07:10 AM PST

    •  he just got re-elected (28+ / 0-)

      Most rednecks in WV are not in favor of slaughtering 20 kids. Even gun nuts realize that having assault weapons is not needed for protection or hunting  and they have kids and grandchildren.

      •  Parent love isn't enough, unfortunately. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cocinero, dkosdan

        It's been known for years that parents with guns are far more likely to shoot their own children than intruders, yet millions of parents buy guns for defending their homes.

        The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

        by teacherjon on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:12:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Most rednecks in WV hunt for table meat. (24+ / 0-)

        Over half the male population are hunters. They will know that what Manchin said is common sense.

        There are crazies (and marijuana growers) up in our hills with weapons of mass killing. They aren't friends of the hunters.

        •  Having Grown up in West Virginia (7+ / 0-)

          I met very few gun nuts.  Almost everyone owned a gun but they tended to be single shot shotguns or bolt action rifles for hunting.  It wasn't till I moved to Arlington virginia that I met a few gun nuts, people with AR-15's and the like.  The kind of people that spoke about protecting their families and heading off take overs of the federal government.  My experience is that the preppers seem to be in the suburbs more so then rural communities.

          •  Problem Of Getting Gun Owners To Support A Ban (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Andrew F Cockburn

            It's easy to convince gun owners that "they are coming to take away your guns! Be very afraid!" when what they own is single shot hunting rifles and 6 shot shotguns for duck hunting.

            Which nobody much opposes and nobody at all wants to confiscate -- not even PETA. But, the NRA has convinced millions of sportsmen that "you can't trust the government."

            So, Joe Manchin will lose the next election over this.

            The REAL reason why the gun nuts are so afraid is "we have to arm ourselves to protect our homes from the terrible black and brown people coming to take all our stuff!" Right after the inevitable collapse of the economy due to all the blacks on welfare, they'll start making a bee-line right for the suburbs and try taking stuff right out of my garage!

            Good luck trying to reason with lunatics like that.

            •  Manchin won't lose the next election over this. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dkosdan, scamperdo, mjbleo

              He has credibility with the hunting gun owners. This is an "only Nixon can go to China" moment.

              •  There's about $15 million that begs to differ (0+ / 0-)

                That's the amount that right-wing billionaires will be willing to pump into his race. And "Joe Machin proposed taking away our 2nd Amendment rights, while Rep. Blowhard (R) will fight to protect the 2nd Amendment."

                Repeat that by about 15 million and we'll see. He may have "credibility" with gun owners, but he's trying to oppose insane ranting with common sense, and that's usually difficult.

              •  Political move (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Andrew F Cockburn

                Manchin apparently forgot about his "Dead Aim" campaign ad, just like he forgot about all those children in Raleigh, Boone, Kanawha, Fayette, Mingo and Logan Counties with toxic air and water, daily detonations of tons of explosives, billion gallon slurry impoundments of toxic waste and all those scientific papers linking MTR (not MTV) to serious health problems and birth defects. He probably thinks we forgot about it too.
                Can a leopard change its spots? You can hope so, but it's unlikely.
                But what the hell; it got him on every news show in the country today. I'm betting that was what he was "aiming" for this time.

                "Idiocracy. It's not a comedy, it's a prophecy."

                by wv voice of reason on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:51:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Don't think so. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dkosdan, wv voice of reason

              I don't believe he would have said anything to put his political life in jeopardy.

          •  (many preppers not gun nuts) (0+ / 0-)

            it's it's own genre

        •  Responsible hunters and sportsmen (4+ / 0-)

          need to start distancing themselves from the "gun fetishists" and the "Assault Weapons Enthusiasts" and we need to distinguish between the two groups as well.  I grew up with the hunting culture where you got a .22 when you turned 14 that was likely handed down from your dad along with some pretty strict lessons about gun safety.  I am happy to have my son learn those traditions.

          But the gun fetishists, the Assault Weapons Enthusiasts, are another group entirely.  In my experience they are generally poorly educated, have poor impulse control, make poor decisions and have poor prospects.  Owning lots of guns with massive firepower and lots of ammo is a way of making up for these deficiences.  It gives them power where they don't otherwise have any.  They get off on how scary looking and intimidating the guns are.  These people don't hunt.  That takes patience, and you have to get up early, and there is no immediate gratification.  You might hunt all day and not take a shot.  That's no fun compared to going out in the country and shooting the crap out of a side of a barn or an old car with an automatic weapon.  That makes them feel big and powerful. These people can't be bothered to get proper firearms training and they don't give a rat's patoot about gun safety.  Like any junkie, they just want bigger and more.

           Unfortunately a certain percentage of that group overlaps with the unstable and disaffected listening to Glenn Beck about how the country is going to crash and how the blue helmets are coming and how Democrats are socialist enemies akin to Stalin and Hitler and how every non-caucasian is a terrorist and some of them are flat out paranaoid or schizophrenic.  When all that intersects you get that guy who killed his wife and two kids before Christmas to save them from Obama (or did we forget that already?) and all these nightmares.  

          These armament junkies would buy a nuke if they could.   And since they tend to hang where the genuine sportsmen do, you would think its time for the real sportsmen and the real firearms enthusiasts, to stand up and say "Enough, these people are dangerous."

          If you want something other than the obvious to happen; you've got to do something other than the obvious. Douglas Adams

          by trillian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:14:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The situation reminds me of the 1960s when (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wallybarron, dkosdan

            the original Sierra Club types woke up and realized that hunters and fishermen were their natural allies in the environmental movement.

            •  We've always known this -- THEY didn't! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dkosdan, wv voice of reason

              NOBODY has ever tried to ban legitimate hunting weapons like single-shot rifles with telescopic sights, or shot-guns for hunting wild fowl. It's NEVER been about that!

              The best possible weapon for home defense is a pump-action 12-gauge shot-gun. Everybody knows what that sound means when you pump a round into the chamber. Any home invader is going to think twice about confronting you.

              So, why hasn't this "coalition" materialized before now?
              Answer: it's not really about home defense and never has been! It's about the paranoid racist fantasies of the right-wing about the "takers" coming to "take my stuff."

              And there's ZERO chance of reasoning with them.

              So, if legitimate sportsmen want to join a coalition to support eliminating military assault weapons and high-capacity ammo clips, then fine. But most of the ones I know are also extremely conservative and wouldn't ally themselves with "the Libs" on any issue, no matter what it is.

              I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is that very few will want to associate themselves with a "liberal" cause like gun-control no matter how many school children are massacred.

              It's just the price of . . . FREEDOM!

      •  I live in WV. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver

        I don't see Manchin voting for a renewed AWB. He would get tossed out here. Republicans made big gains in the legislature.  

        I can see maybe him surviving banning big magazines or moving military style guns into a separate category where you'd have to jump thru a psych screening or something to get them, but anything on the level a lot of people her on DKos want would get him tossed out.

        •  And on the gun issue, that would be bad why? (0+ / 0-)

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:29:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I like this... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dkosdan
          banning big magazines or moving military style guns into a separate category where you'd have to jump thru a psych screening or something to get them

          The civil rights, gay rights and women's movements, designed to allow others to reach for power previously grasped only by white men, have made a real difference, and the outlines of 21st century America have emerged. -- Paul West of LA Times

          by LiberalLady on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:09:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Manchin two step (0+ / 0-)

          He's very good at making it sound like he is for something, without actually saying so. So now he wants to make it look like he is the one bringing the NRA to the table. You can bet his is working for them.

          This whole media blitz is reminiscent of his appearances during the Sago mine disaster and how he vowed that he  was going to make sure nothing like that ever happened again.
          Great theatrics, but then there's the video taken at the 2008 Coal symposium with Manchin recounting how he had told his safety regulators to relax enforcement of violations in the mines. The guy talks out of both sides of his mouth and never misses the opportunity to take political advantage of a situation.

          "Idiocracy. It's not a comedy, it's a prophecy."

          by wv voice of reason on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:31:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I suspect he just got primaried (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver

        Re-elected if he gets past the primary.

        Even if the NRA chills out and doesn't get too much in the way of gun legislation, the teahadist side of the party will not be stopped. I'll put dollars to donuts on the Sarah Palin/Jim Demint wing finding something to primary Manchin on, even if the word "guns" never crosses their lips.

        A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. --John Marshall

        by DoLooper on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:36:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Joe Manchin is a Democrat (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Farugia, askew, cany

          and won re-election against republican rich kid, John Raese.  He has six years to flip flop on this issue.  As you can see from the transcript, he has trouble staying on the issue and falls into the NRA talking points, i.e., violence in the media, etc.

          Manchin is NRA and that isn't going to change.

          When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

          by msmacgyver on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:51:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Doh! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cany, msmacgyver

            My bad.

            A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. --John Marshall

            by DoLooper on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:59:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nah, not really...Manchin is a classic (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wv voice of reason

              Blue Dog.  He inherited his Senate seat when Robert Byrd passed away then had to run his first campaign in a special election which was an absolute disgrace:

              This latest campaign was less anti-Obama/Dem, but he is not someone to be trusted and his come-to-Jesus moment about gun control is simply not believable.

              When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

              by msmacgyver on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:57:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Manchin is a DINO (0+ / 0-)

            The majority votes for him because they are afraid of perpetual losing candidate John Raese.
            Don't expect any WV Democrat to ever primary Joe Manchin. The only alternative is the Mountain Party who possess more Democratic values than the majority of WV's so-called "Democrat" Party.

            "Idiocracy. It's not a comedy, it's a prophecy."

            by wv voice of reason on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:39:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Yet they'll go right on (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cany, wv voice of reason

        voting for right-wing nuts like Joe Manchin. Sen. Manchin needs to apologize for those ads he made before he has any credibility at all.

        http://www.youtube.com/...

      •  These gun nuts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dkosdan

        are not hunting with these weapons. They are stockpiling guns, ammo, food and water for an economic collapse that they believe Obama is going to cause. You can read this stuff for yourself on various Facebook groups and in all kinds of other comments. They believe they need these weapons to protect them from the government.

        "Idiocracy. It's not a comedy, it's a prophecy."

        by wv voice of reason on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:49:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's not more powrful than engaged (and enraged) (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cany, dkosdan, jplanner

      electorate.

      The good news is that Manchin effectively gives permission for gun owners to ask if the lines aren't drawn too permissively when it comes to guns.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:41:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Senator Manchin makes very good sense (4+ / 0-)

      As I have written elsewhere, I grew up in an area where guns were just sort of around.  My Grandfather on my Dad's side was a paymaster in a Steel Mill in Pittsburgh.  He carried a revolver a lot, since over the years it had sort of become a habit for him.  Like having keys in your pocket.

      There were .22's and a deer rifle or two, some old weapons that no one thought would be safe to actually shoot with, and so on...   no big deal.

      But no one, ever, thought that there was any reason to shoot at anything more than twice.  If you were shooting at a deer (and there were lots of them) you either got them on the first shot, or maybe the second, but if you missed both they were loooong gone.  Shooting off a huge clip in the direction the headed would have involved shooting a lot of trees, but that would have just been a waste of bullets.

      You know, back then cigarettes cost 25 cents a pack, $2.00 for a carton.  Tobacco companies seemed to be turning a profit okay.  And I do know that the value of a dollar is a lot less now.  Gasoline was also 25 cents a gallon.

      But why don't we tax cartridges?  We tax cigarettes, right?  So we could tax cartridges to pay for some of the damage that misuse of lethal weapons causes in our society.  Or for counseling.   I also think that the use of weapons should be restricted to those who go through a period of supervision, like having a "Learner's Permit" for youthful drivers.  Shooter's Ed, then a written examination.  Why not?  Guns kill more people than automobiles currently.  Let's get smart about things and make the act of owning and using a weapon a lot more serious, instead of it being something you buy at a flea market and can play games with.

      •  Luv it! (0+ / 0-)
        we could tax cartridges to pay for some of the damage that misuse of lethal weapons causes in our society.  Or for counseling.   I also think that the use of weapons should be restricted to those who go through a period of supervision, like having a "Learner's Permit" for youthful drivers.  Shooter's Ed, then a written examination.

        The civil rights, gay rights and women's movements, designed to allow others to reach for power previously grasped only by white men, have made a real difference, and the outlines of 21st century America have emerged. -- Paul West of LA Times

        by LiberalLady on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:18:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  We are stronger than the NRA (7+ / 0-)

      If we have learned anything in these past few years it is that the omnipotent false gods in this country can be defeated.  

      If we can defeat Romney/Ryan and the 2%, the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, Grover Norquist, the corporate members of ALEC, FreedomWorks, Jim DeMint, the tea party, Wall Street, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove and Fox and all the rest of the GOP establishment, we can defeat the NRA.

      Yes, it will be an uphill battle. But it is a battle worth fighting.

      •  Nothing Wrong With Fighting Them (0+ / 0-)

        But, the GOP has Gerrymandered themselves into completely unrepresentative districts where they stand no competition whatsoever -- so long as they toe the line to their lunatic base.

        And that means doing nothing that will offend the gun nuts.

        It wouldn't matter if gun-nuts slaughtered 1,000 kindergarten children.

        Their only solution is "every teacher should be packing heat so they could shoot it out in the classroom."

    •  The NRA is a death lobby. (0+ / 0-)

      And they're going to stick to their guns.

      The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

      by psnyder on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:53:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let hope he means it and will act (14+ / 0-)

    "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

    by LaurenMonica on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:07:51 AM PST

  •  I can't even tip the diarist on this one. (11+ / 0-)

    I'm glad this has changed him.  I mean that.  I just don't know why it took this.

    Why did we have to have this happen before rational adults stopped pushing an extremely dangerous position to satisfy the stupid and hateful of his base?  They really didn't see this coming?  Not this particular event or these particular children but, really, they're so surpised?

    I live in Michigan.  Govenor Snyder signed into law, the day after these attacks, a bill allowing "highly" trained ccw holders to carry weapons into preschools and elementary schools and anywhere else they want, except the capitol, of course.

    Wonder why that is.

    •  Cynic that I am (5+ / 0-)

      I feel that both Manchin and the Joke are changed because the kids are white! They don't care about all the children who have been gunned down over the years that do not look like their own!

      American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

      by glitterscale on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:37:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  that's how I feel... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dkosdan

      about the millions who voted in 2008 and not 2010, many because Obama failed some purity test. Snyder is but one consequence of  that...there are many more.

      "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

      by JackND on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:39:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Conservative Oppose Policies On Principle and (0+ / 0-)

      word of authority, not because of what works or doesn't work. They believe that outcomes, making things work, is not even the business of government.

      So we have to wait for them to be shocked or injured before we can get them out of park.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:41:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jonathan Alter just made a very good point... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      on Martin Bashir's show.  This isn't going to change until some of these pro-NRA (which is now different than simply being pro-gun rights) politicians LOSE in the 2014 elections, AND that it is made clear a significant reason they lost is BECAUSE of their unyielding support of the NRA.

      Alter was pleading with the Obama voters of 2012 to show up in full force in 2014.  Do NOT sit out the midterms like we generally see our side do.  If we do, we'll only have ourselves to blame as we see NRA-backed candidates win and win again.

  •  Talk is cheap Mancin ... (4+ / 0-)

    Unfortunately, I don't believe any of these Senators. They are talking a good talk right now, but I'm convinced hey will water down every single bill that comes through. The final compromise will probably be nothing at all ... They will give in to the NRA to continue to save the money they get from the Gun Lobby.

    I don't trust people like Manchin. This is a guy who has spent his time voting with Republicans (or hiding away when the time comes to vote) and/or belittling the President on every opportunity.

    Many politicians like Manchin are the ones screwing the Senate. Yes, what he says is a step forward, but ... we want to see action.

  •  I'm looking at who is not speaking out (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    middleagedhousewife, hester, dkosdan

    on gun control --

    Mitch McConnell,

    Press Releases

    Dec 14 2012
    McConnell Statement on the Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting
    LOUISVILLE– U.S. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell released the following statement today regarding the tragic shooting in Newtown, Connecticut:

    “We are all crushed by the news of today's horrifying massacre in Newtown. I invite everyone to lift their hearts in prayer for the victims and their families and to unite around the hope that there will soon come a day when parents no longer fear this kind of violence in our nation again.”

    and John Boehner
    Speaker Boehner on the Shooting in Newtown, CT

    Dec 14, 2012

    Washington-
    House Speaker John A. Boehner has issued the following statement regarding the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT:

    “The horror of this day seems so unbearable, but we will lock arms and unite as citizens, for that is how Americans rise above unspeakable evil.  Let us all come together in God’s grace to pray for the families of the victims, that they may find some comfort and peace amid such suffering.  Let us give thanks for all those who helped get people to safety, and take heart from their example.  The House of Representatives – like every American – stands ready to assist the people of Newtown, Connecticut.”

    "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

    by Mogolori on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:26:01 AM PST

    •  Locking arms and hoping for the day (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      middleagedhousewife, Wendy in FL

      maybe a couple of verses of Kumbaya

      (Someone's prevaricating Lord, kumbaya
      Someone's obstructing Lord, kumbaya)

      and a big group hug

      and they can go back to refusing to cooperate with the President on anything just cause.

      The needle has fallen of of their moral compasses and they replaced 'em with tiny twigs they've stuck on with gum, jammed hard right.

      Prove me wrong please Mr Boehner n Mr McConnell, please.  

      Not holding my breath.

      "I'll press your flesh, you dimwitted sumbitch! " -Pappy O'Daniel

      by jakewaters on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:42:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  its time to thank senator manchin for his comments (9+ / 0-)

    and let him know that we, and president obama, are counting on his vote during the legislative process.

    no doubt this man will get some serious pressure from his side of the fence on this one.  we've been screaming about pressuring our representatives...well--it's time to walk the talk.

    contact the senator and thank him.  let him know where there is support lost, there is support found.

    this is going to be a tough slog...fight every. single. battle.

  •  I don't understand why so many people... (20+ / 0-)

    ...have a problem with Manchin coming around now.  The whole thrust of our discussions since friday has been for people to come around now, because of what they've seen.  There will be plenty of time to hate him tomorrow for everything else, and even for this if he's not serious, but why doubt his seriousness when we're seeing how easy it is to sit back and say nothing (McConnell), or go into Gohmert territory?

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:29:08 AM PST

    •  amen (7+ / 0-)

      doesn't make good sense does it?

      we can indeed hate them tomorrow and fight them about every single other thing that they're wrong about.  but let them be right today...and let's embrace them for it.

      jesus....isn't that the whole point.

      •  sweet jesus, you are right, (0+ / 0-)

        tomorrow is tomorrow, today Manchin is eying low hangin' fruit, so to speak.  

        His own caucus is gonna scream the serpent is passin' him an bad apple.

        He's taken the bite, here's hopin' the seeds pass through his darkness and bear fruit of their own in the form an assault weapons bill.

        "I'll press your flesh, you dimwitted sumbitch! " -Pappy O'Daniel

        by jakewaters on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:49:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Because he is an opportunistic twat - that's why (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rhauenstein

      Now that it's no longer politically convenient to carry water for the gun industry, he tries to come out as the voice of reason on gun control. I welcome his change of heart, but I won't go as far as swallowing his story that he changed because of what happened last Friday. He is concerned about his job, that's all.

      “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

      by 420 forever on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:39:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We've been Charlie Brown to (5+ / 0-)

      politicians' Lucy too many times not to wince every time a politician makes a promise.

      But, there really seems to be a sea-change happening in people's attitudes toward gun-control.  Let's just hope they get behind free mental-health services for ALL.


      "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous..........got me?" - Don Van Vliet

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:08:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'll take it from Manchin (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dkosdan

      because he's a policy maker and so it would be great to think of one less opponent to legislation. With Scarborough I'm a lot more angry, because it's outrageous to say all the other mass shootings were fine but THIS one really makes you think. Especially when Scarborough has enriched himself over the years by siding with the opponents of gun ownership reform, along with the rest of the right wing agenda. Manchin is a tool as well, for similar reasons, but since he can effect current policy right now, I won't gainsay the legitimacy of his conversion unless and until he disappoints me.

    •  Because he hasn't "come around" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vacantlook

      until he has proposed or voted on meaningful legislation. Until then, he has simply talked.

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

      by bigtimecynic on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:40:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rich, we've already talked about this - (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dkosdan

      and I'm still in the #PutUpOrShutUp camp.  At least some of the foot-dragging Dems have expressed what they know is right - even if they haven't done anything - so it taking a few minutes for me to digest the complete about face that we are seeing from Manchin and Scarborough (and I had forgotten about Manchin's campaign ad where he fires shots through environmental legislation until someone here reminded me - ugh) But all of that notwithstanding, he is lightyears ahead of McConnell and Gohmert - you are right about that.  Good on him - I hope that he follows through.  It would be really great to have him as an advocate of sensible legislation.

      •  Right now Manchin has said more than Obama (0+ / 0-)

        And they both have equally useless track records on gun control.  Manchin isn't the one I'd hold to a higher and more immediate standard, honestly,

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:26:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  When I hear (5+ / 0-)

    Blue Ribbon Panel - I think of high profile inaction on its way. I want something to be done like an assault weapons ban and high capacity magazine bans too.

    But when calls come for studies and panels are issued, warning sirens go off in my head. I hope we can get action and a bill voted on.

    The Spice must Flow!

    by Texdude50 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:48:47 AM PST

  •  This may hurt his reelection chances if Both sides (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson

    question his motives and sincerity.

    Brand new favorite RSS feed of Daily Kos Radio Podcasts http://kagrox.libsyn.com/rss
    Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

    by We Won on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:05:44 PM PST

  •  problem is, that probably most of the (6+ / 0-)

    people who own these types of guns, own them because they're afraid of their own government.

    So, having their government take away their guns isn't going to persuade THEM.

    The good thing, is that now, it seems, we can get legislation passed WITHOUT them.

    Enough people have little kids, or care enough about little kids, that want to protect them from this EVER happening again.

    A renewed AWB is the best first step.

    They survived the 1994 law, they'll fucking survive this.


    "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous..........got me?" - Don Van Vliet

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 12:06:00 PM PST

  •  Should be the easiest bill to get approved ever... (5+ / 0-)

    but won't be.  I just don't understand why you couldn't get at least 80% of congress to vote for a bill banning assault weapons.  My dad used to hunt.  I know tons of hunters.  Not one of them has ever come back bragging about taking out a deer with an AK 47.  That's because no one uses them to hunt.  There is no need for the NRA to want to protect people's rights to buy an automatic weapon....none.  The whole "first assualt weapons, next thing you know all guns will be banned" aurgument has run its course. It's time to pull togetheras a nation and push lawmakers to pass a bill ASAP.  Who cares about leaving our kids a massive debt if they won't even be here to worry about it.  That's the harsh reality for 20 familes right now.  

  •  The problem with Manchin's answers is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, JoeyTheLemur, dkosdan

    all he mentions is "conversation" and "talking." Where's the "doing"? How about saying he'd cosponsor Feinstein's bill? How about saying, "I'll tell the NRA they have to change their stands." I didn't hear any of that, so, I'm withholding my "hip-hip-hooray" for Manchin at this point.

  •  I got the impression that he is a boot licker (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil, JoeyTheLemur, dss, CrissieP

    to the NRA. Yes, he was upset about the tragedy but he was still affirming his allegiance to NRA.

    American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

    by glitterscale on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:33:58 PM PST

  •  Manchin is a good politician. He veered (6+ / 0-)

    hard right on guns in order to keep that seat in 2010.  He is veering back to the center on the issue and I commend him for that.  I like observing shrewd politicians because they have an instinct for figuring out when a tipping point shift has occurred among the general populace, the folks who vote but aren't politically engaged year round.  

    Manchin's rather quick shift seems to confirm that there is something fundamentally different about what happened in Newtown to a significant number of swing voters.

    As for me, this weekend I felt similar to how I did after the 9-11 attack.  I have 2 small kids who attend pre-school.  The school emailed everyone to tell us about how they are re-evaluating their security posture. It is already changing how we look at school security.  It makes me ill to be away from my kids during the work day.

    We have allowed a domestic terror threat to foster in this country because we don't want to confront right wing conspiracy theorists who want the unfettered right to hoard as many destructive weapons as possible.    

    The mentally ill individuals who have perpetrated these attacks are more random than a terrorist sleeper cell. This is a more complex and vexing problem to solve than that posed by militant Islamic fundamentalism.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:35:04 PM PST

  •  It's nice to see conservative Dems (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany, dkosdan

    switching sides.  But I want to see some Republicans go on record as breaking ranks.  Then I'll be more hopeful.

    If that DOES happen, I believe it will be a group, not an individual.  They'll check things out among themselves, and all come forth together, maybe in a letter to a newspaper or something.

    If you think Dems are afraid of Republicans, you should know that Republicans are more afraid of Republicans.

    “If we, citizens, do not support our artists, then we sacrifice our imagination on the altar of crude reality and we end up believing in nothing and having worthless dreams.” ~ Yann Martel

    by SottoVoce on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:35:09 PM PST

  •  The problem is male menopause in the USA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    The gun profiteers know it.
    http://www.bushmaster.broco.com/...

    This is a real ad.

    "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

    by greendem on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:35:10 PM PST

  •  Manchin is a REALLY GOOD politician (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HarryParatestis, dkosdan

    He reminds me a little of early Clinton in the way he can take fairly conservative positions, make them acceptable to liberals and have his conservative base not get wise to him.

    Tip of the hat.

    And... my sense in reading him, unless he's a REALLY good actor... is that he is really changed.

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:36:22 PM PST

  •  Keep scrubbing, Joe. I can still see the blood (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CrissieP

    on your hands. And I see it on Harry Reid's. I see it all over Washington.

    Don't get me wrong, Joe, I'm just all choked up over how this has affected you... and all it took was the slaughter of a couple of dozen babies to get through to you. Glad they could be of service to you in your quest for inner peace.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:36:46 PM PST

  •  Good for him.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    1 down, 434 or so to go.

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

    by kmiddle on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:38:56 PM PST

  •  Unexpected? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ed k, maryabein, vacantlook

    Quote: "... we've never seen this happen before, nor could we ever expect anything like this to happen. "
    I'm often amazed how often people react to horrible events that were clearly going to happen (and actually have happend lots of times before) by talking all about how unexpected it was. Maybe he needs to believe that to live with himself, but it was not at all unexpected for many people.

    "We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

    by Mudderway on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:40:16 PM PST

  •  The NRA has not said a thing. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cal2010, sukeyna, vacantlook, cany, dkosdan
    They do not deserve a place at the discussion table.

    They haven't so much as expressed condolences to the families. Instead, they have shut down their Facebook page, their website and are working to be inaccessible. So I have been calling. That's lots of time on hold, but I get a person and I don't let go. They have to hang up on me.

    So when Joe Manchin says:

    And i want to bring all my friends in the NRA in on this discussion. They need to be part of this dialogue of how we move forward.
    I say

    NO WAY!!!! The NRA does not have the moral authority to sit at the table and make decisions about weapons.

    I will fight tooth and nail to keep the NRA out of discussions. They've had 4 days to say something, something kind, compassionate, open, caring. Instead they have hid themselves away from public view, just like they will do at the next tragedy. They don't care if people, including children, die. Ergo, I don't give a flying rat's back end what the NRA thinks. They had their chance and blew it.

    Oh, and go after their non-profit status. I've had it with these guys.

    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. -- Sir Winston Churchill

    by bleeding heart on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:42:52 PM PST

  •  I am inclined to believe him that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    he actually has traveled the Road to Damascus.

    We will have to wait see how many others have similarly seen the light

  •  Talk is cheap (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CrissieP, dkosdan

    Awaiting action.

  •  If this conserva-dem can (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    change his mind, so can this community's RKBAers. Or they can leave, of course.

  •  I'm having a hard time with how this is framed... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maryabein, CrissieP, vacantlook, dkosdan

    ...is it just me or did that whole thing actually amount to him saying that seeing a few black civil rights leaders assassinated was tolerable, but a bunch of mostly white school kids, well now...that is intolerable.

    I'm fairly sure his intention wasn't to say any such thing, but my God that was an unfortunate way of putting his point.

    •  it is not just you - (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dkosdan

      as heartbroken as I am about these sweet children and their teachers, as a black women, my feelings are just hurt knowing that it takes the slaughter of innocent white children to finally get us to the tipping point.  I understand that nobody cares about black children who live in poverty and reside in cities - but I'm not convinced that even a mass murder of black children would evoke the same kind of response from the nation.  I wish I was wrong but I don't think I am.  My comfort is that whatever is done on behalf of the Newtown children, will inure to the benefit of all children.  Manchin's response just confirms my suspicions.  Manchin and his constituents do not have empathy for black and brown children.  America does not value the lives of black and brown children.

  •  Yes we can (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    this just in, dkosdan

    Most Americans are starting to understand that climate change is a reality.  They also have come to the conclusion that the repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" doesn't have any adverse effects on the combat readiness of our military.  They have decided that gays and lesbians getting married and having families of their own does not harm society or the institution of marriage.  They have concluded that the theory of trickle-down economics doesn't work.  They are reaching the conclusion that the time to end marijuana prohibition has come.

    We couldn't say any of these things just a few years ago.  In every case, the political obstacles of the status quo have been enormous.  Yes, there are great challenges to enact responsible common sense gun laws.  But public opinion can change, and we can overcome those obstacles.

  •  There are plenty of gun owners.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    ..who are still loudly protesting that they are the ones who want to stop gun violence by arming everyone, and we're the ones who got those children killed by disagreeing.

    With the insanity at that level, words like Joe Manchin's are welcome, even if they need to be taken with a bus-load of salt.

    When extra-terrestrial beings make their first appearance on our planet, and ask for representatives of our species to best exemplify humanity, I'm sending a nurse, a librarian, and a firefighter.

    by Wayward Son on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:47:01 PM PST

  •  Whatever we do (0+ / 0-)

    we have do do it now. Fox news and the pro-gun lobbies are already trying to make sure that millions of innocent, introverted, socially awkward, sweet young children are the collaterals of this horrific event.

  •  While a number of commenters have (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    birdboy2000, dkosdan

    blasted Manchin, I'd like to commend the others who have given him the benefit of the doubt.  This is the tipping point, and it has changed not just him, but I'd surmize most of the rest of the country.  Maybe it's the fact that they were so young.  I don't know.

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:52:34 PM PST

  •  Fuck yea, Manchin! (0+ / 0-)

    This has to be the most positive sign that this may really be the tipping.  

    I fully expected him to play the jackass NRA role but I'm cautiously optimistic.

    It'll be interesting to see what some gop senators actually say...once they have the balls to come out and speak publicly.

    Proud to share my name with Howard Dean

    by DeanNC on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:54:09 PM PST

  •  I beg to differ , Sen. Manchin (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maryabein
    I don't think there's a West Virginian that I know, and not a person living in my state that hasn't been moved by this horrific crime against our children, and we've never seen this happen before, nor could we ever expect anything like this to happen. So, I think it has changed, from the standpoint of we as adults should come together.
    Yes, many of us expected it to happen.  

    Why is this always the fall back of your party?  No one could ever expect . . . blah, blah, blah

    I'm glad you've come to this side BUT it would be nice if you all would listen to our side instead of treating us with condescension and derision when we bring up these concerns to you.

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 01:57:46 PM PST

  •  oh yeah whatever has he quit the nra (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bepanda

    so he has to be a part of the mfgers to have a voice?

    has he quit the nra?

  •  Sure, sure... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany, bepanda

    ..whatever you say.  These words are worth about as much as, well, as much as words from a politician.  Do something real, then get back to us.

  •  Bushmaster November 28th Tweet (0+ / 0-)
  •  "NRA in on this discussion?" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany, bepanda, dkosdan

    Do we invite al-Qaeda in on national security talks?

    If his NRA friends join him, then any legislative product will be watered down to worthlessness. Nothing useful will come out of John Boehner's House, this is a long haul. Congress is far from ready to be a helpful component.

    It begins with the discrediting/demolition of the NRA. Do them like Komen. Cost the manufacturers money, reduce their bottom line, wherever possible.

    When no Democrats will speak of being proud lifetime members of the NRA, we're on our way there.

    Lets see who Senator Manchin will call his friends in the days ahead.

  •  Who did he know (0+ / 0-)

    last week that needed those multiple clips as far as ammunition in a gun?

  •  Hell, even Dino Mark Warner's mind has been (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    changed.  Just heard it on the radio.  He's always been against banning assault weapons before.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:29:30 PM PST

  •  A Letter to Manchin (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wallybarron

    I will write a heartfelt letter to Manchin thanking him for helping to promote an honest dialogue concerning assault rifles and other lethal weapons.

    If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

    by julien on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:50:25 PM PST

  •  I don't buy it. Sorry. If he thinks he will get (0+ / 0-)

    meaningful change from the NRA, he's crazy.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:19:42 PM PST

  •  Serious Question: let's say legislation passes (0+ / 0-)

    Will it be the kind like last time that needs the be RENEWED, or will it be the law going forward, period. Can someone explain what happened with the last ban, do you need 60 stinking votes to pass real laws that last?

  •  A. Mitchell did a tremendous job as interviewer (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    she pegged him to repeat what he said earlier
    she pegged him around taking concreate action
    bravo!

  •  I live in CA so I remember (vaguely)the Stockton (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkosdan

    school killings http://articles.latimes.com/...
    And I wonder how many kids have to die before it becomes "different"?

    48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam> "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Edna St.V. Millay

    by slouching on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:23:19 PM PST

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