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Ok, I feel the need to respond. I am amazed at the response to this post, and for all the wrong reasons. The majority of posters seemed offended by and only latched on to the following:

Now, I know that gun owners are a paranoid bunch and often not of a highly educated crop, but are they aware of the irony here? And can we on the left come right out and brand gun owners, NRA members, and anyone else who loves to shoot holes into things that did not have them nor require them, officially "responsible" once and for all?
I want to retract this statement. Gun owners, like anyone else, can pay for an education, get a Masters, a PHD, whatever. Perhaps they have multiple degrees with honors. To that I say congratulations! I realize it was wrong to be critical of your education and the time and effort you spent obtaining it.

That said, I want to make a further clarification. What I should have said was that while gun owners are still a paranoid bunch, which there is really no argument, I should have clarified that those who feel the need to shoot holes into things lack common sense.

Noun
Good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
You see, practically speaking, owning an arsenal of weapons and the bullets to fill them is not common sense. It is dangerous, agressive and truly serves no greater good. Sure we are a violent people, that much is certain. But imagine if nobody had a gun. Where would we be then? Ok, so there would be clubbings, stabbings, punchings, maybe even bombings. But regular people just walking into public places and killing everything that moves? Not so much. That's not to say they would not give it their best effort, however the end result would be much different.

Now, once again I am sure most of the posters will disagree with me and be angry and tell me I am offending them. Well, to that I say walking into a school and shooting little kids is offensive. Allowing people to own weapons that cause this much carnage on a now monthly basis is offensive.

But then it is my right to speak my mind as much as it is for you to arm yourselves for some imaginary government takeover. You don't like my words? Tough. I don't like your guns. So I guess that makes us both Constitutionally even.

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Comment Preferences

  •  You seem to have a habit of making shit up. (13+ / 0-)

    If you insist on living your life based on false assumptions and broad-brush over-generalizations, it's no wonder  your "diaries" aren't well received.  You'll doubtless get the odd rec or tip, but your so-called argument won't accomplish diddly-squat beyond whatever small gratification those may give you.

  •  your caricatures of gun owners expose (11+ / 0-)

    your ignorance.

    have a nice life, "patriot".

  •  I agree with this: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW
    Well, to that I say walking into a school and shooting little kids is offensive.

    **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

    by glorificus on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:16:11 AM PST

  •  and BTW how OLD are you? You sound very (9+ / 0-)

    young so I'll be gentle.

    this

    But then it is my right to speak my mind as much as it is for you to arm yourselves for some imaginary government takeover. You don't like my words? Tough. I don't like your guns. So I guess that makes us both Constitutionally even.
    undercuts your own argument.

    Tell you what? I won't try to restrict your constitutional freedom of speech. You're welcome.

  •  fantasy: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kestrel9000, KVoimakas

    the faculty or activity of imagining things, esp. things that are impossible or improbable

    But imagine if nobody had a gun
  •  OK, gunloons, Pile on! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hnichols, Kevskos

    3....2....1...

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:26:53 AM PST

    •  And another middle schooler heard from. (7+ / 0-)

      Bored on winter break, skippy?

      •  CwV obviously didn't see this diary and the troll- (0+ / 0-)

        ery occuring (without moderation):

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        •  Actually I did see that piece of crap (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hnichols, Kevskos

          and had to restrain myself from donutting it.
          The gunloons are setting themselves up for a fall by stomping every attempt to open a discussion of reasonable gun control.
          The more militant the RKBA crowd gets, the more the rest of us want to see the last of them depart.
          If you are trying to present a "Liberal gun owner" POV, you are failing miserably because y'all come across as authoritarian bastards who will allow NO regulation AT ALL over your deadly toys, who can't seem to get it that 30000 gun deaths per years is UNACCEPTABLE. and that 60% of the people of this country want to see at least some form of control to keep mass slaughter weapons out of the hands of random nuts.
          And since I had my first and only donut applied to one of my comments because I wasn't respectful enough of the gunloons' delicate sensibilities, (A gungoon who called himself TheatreGoon objects to being called a goon, imagine that?) I find it almost irresistible to donut every gunloon I encounter now. RKBA and their circle seem to be doing everything they can to make themselves unwelcome, including piling on any comment that doesn't agree with total unregulated access to slaughter weapons for everybody.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:35:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Should be HR'd; "politeness and civility for thee (0+ / 0-)

            but not for me".

          •  That's a righteous rant (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose

            for a sixth grader.

            You still need to work on the grammar and style, but you're doing alright.

          •  Authoritarian? (0+ / 0-)

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 09:14:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  If this diary is an example... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KVoimakas, Hangpilot

            Of what gun control supporters really believe, then the "gunloons" are right to stomp every discussion they can. It's the only viable strategy, and whether or not it fails in the end it will at least postpone any such defeats.

            After all, were gun control supporters really like this, they're quite delusional and could never be reasoned with or trusted to keep promises. That latter part is key, let's be forthright: if you all feel this way, then you'd tell any lie that would eventually lead to an absolute ban. Your ideological opponents aren't idiots, they can perceive this.

            As for "reasonable gun control", what else would they have, other than your promise, that it was just "reasonable gun control" and not the first step in a strategy to eventually strip them of all gun rights?

            ALL over your deadly toys, who can't seem to get it that 30000 gun deaths per years is UNACCEPTABLE.
            Let's inject a little honesty. A large fraction of those are suicides, suicides that were going to happen no matter what. Looking at the numbers, nearly 19,000 of those are suicides.

            Then another 400 or 500 are justifiable homicide.

            If we were to go just by the numbers, you're far more dangerous behind the wheel of a car.

          •  What a wise and well-written comment!!!! (0+ / 0-)

            I'm too late to rec, but this is outstanding!!!!

            Kudos, CwV!!!

            **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

            by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:28:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  This juvenile little rant (5+ / 0-)

      isn't worth bothering with. It did, however, give you the opportunity to engage in a bit of sophomoric namecalling, I see...

    •  Pile on is right. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hnichols, FloraLine

      It took a matter of seconds for it. Imagine is people felt this passionate about abortion or gays marrying or stopping wars. But try to stop people from shooting holes into things that don't want them or require them and loo out.

      •  People DO feel as passionately (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KVoimakas, FrankRose, Hangpilot, rockhound

        about abortion and gay marriage. Just as passionately as you do about guns.
        People who seek to trample the rights of others are often quite passionate. All you ban-whatever types really ought to stick together.

        •  That is so wrong (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pirogue, hnichols, Kevskos, FloraLine

          You put your "right" to own slaughter weapons ahead of the rest of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and then try to conflate our wish to remain safe from random gun violence with restricting women's reproductive rights? Or same-sex marriage rights?
          That's total bullsh!t and you should be ashamed of yourself.
          I didn't start out with the idea of banning guns, but the more I listen to "responsible gun owners" the less I believe that such an animal exists. If you are truly responsible, if you have a legitimate reason to keep and use firearms, then you should be in the LEAD on forming reasonable regulation. There is no excuse for total non-regulation. It enables the epidemic of gun violence, because gun owners refuse to be responsible for the mass slaughter that goes on every day in this country, "It's not my problem" "it wasn't me" "I'm a responsible person, I'm not the problem" BULLSH!T.
          You ARE part of the problem and you are abetting the rest of the problem and in the long run, you will be over ruled if you don't engage constructively.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:49:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "if you don't engage constructively." (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Hangpilot, notrouble

            Which you don't seem to be able to do yourself.

            you will be over ruled
            I'm not worried about it. The anti-gun crowd on this site doesn't reflect the general mindset of the country. You're just one of a bunch of extremists around here, and extremists are all you speak for.

             

            if you have a legitimate reason to keep and use firearms
            That's not your call to make.

            And yes, the ban-guns crowd is more alike the ban-abortion or ban-marriage equality crowd then they care to admit.

            Deal with it.

            •  I'm dealing with it. (0+ / 0-)
              That's not your call to make.
              Really? The gangsters that overran my apartment block certainly think they have legitimate reasons to own slaughter weapons, should I agree with them? Do you? Is there no definition of Irresponsible Gun Ownership? And is that only the purview of gun owners? Not their victims?
              If you have the only right to make that decision, you have even more responsibility for the bloodshed.
              The anti-gun crowd on this site doesn't reflect the general mindset of the country
              No, we are probably 75-80% anti slaughter weapons Vs the general public's 62%, but that still puts you gunloons in the minority. The fact that y'all go so far out of your way to shut down the majority from expressing their views speaks volumes about your concern for anyone else's rights.
              and:
              You're just one of a bunch of extremists
              Now your just flailing. I have been a much more moderate voice than many here and have done my best to OPEN dialog, not shut it down, and for that I get called an extremist. Well, pardon me, but I consider anyone that fights against reasonable gun control to be far more extreme and when coupled with the bullying "debate style" of the RKBA here, you become a group of goons AFAICS.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:06:29 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

                •  Define "responsible". (0+ / 0-)

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:11:13 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sure. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    OldSoldier99

                    My shit is my shit and I'm acutely aware that I'm responsible for what happens with any of it, regardless of who's holding it. If someone else gets one of my guns and does something bad with it, it's my fault because it's my gun. Same thing applies to me and anything I do.

                    irresponsible

                    Your move.

                    Define, "reasonable."

                    •  So you have no responsibility other than for how (0+ / 0-)

                      YOUR gun is used? But you want to make sure that guns are easily available to the widest possible number of people, regardless of whether they are going to be responsible?
                      That is irresponsible itself.
                      Will you do anything at all to try to ensure that everyone that buys guns will handle them properly? As long as you have yours, you don't care how many thugs can also buy massive firepower? Because any attempt to limit that would infringe on your "freedom". Sorry, but that's just wrong. If that really is your stand, you are not a responsible human being, much less gun owner.
                      If all of your bullets go only where you send them and those are all legitimate targets, then there is no reason why you have any concern with having your firearms registered and the bullets fingerprinted.
                      Meanwhile, it would cut down on the thugs with guns and that would cut down the number of gun crimes. And that would reduce the number of situations where people "need" guns to protect themselves.
                      That would be Responsible gun ownership.
                      Preventing reasonable regulation is not.

                      Define, "reasonable."
                      All guns, long and short, be registered with a "fingerprint" slug.
                      All new firearms made to stamp a signature into the casing.
                      All gun owners be licensed, have to be trained and certified, background checked, psych tested and insured.
                      Limits on magazine size and Impact/minute (see Empty Vessel for details).
                      Enforceable gun-free area designations where property owners desire it (so stores and bars and restaurants can keep guns off their premises). This includes concealed carry permittees and be enforceable by police.
                      Gun locks/gun safes mandatory for houses with children including teens.
                      I have no intent or desire to "collect up all the guns" for one thing, that's impossible on a technical level, 300 million guns, not counting the ones that are buried or stuffed into the attic and everyone's forgotten about, but it also is not in any way realistic politically.
                      Nor do I believe that the Second Amendment should be repealed (although I don't believe that it conveys the individual right, the court has, so far, said that it does).
                      My preferred method for bullet ID seems to be technologically challenging, that is: a nanotube signature in every bullet and every sale of bullets signed for. (Plus I don't know how to accommodate reloaders, unless it can be batched into the lead they use.)
                      If I could have that, I couldn't care less about the guns themselves, it's the bullets that kill ya. But that technology is over the crest and the NRA will fight tooth and nail to prevent it from coming in.
                      You do yourself and your cause no favors by attacking me as an extremist just as you do yourself no favors by refusing both, regulation to rein in the violence and the responsibility for the result of that lack of regulation.

                      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                      by CwV on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 01:41:10 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly, CwV! (0+ / 0-)

            **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

            by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:30:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I am not a gun fan at all but come on... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GoGoGoEverton, avsp, mlbx2
    paranoid bunch and often not of a highly educated crop,
    These sorts of statements don't help.

    Last night the news reported a guy who shot himself in the stomach while cleaning his gun. He is a former attorney for a nearby city and now a judge. Probably pretty well educated just no common sense.

    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

    by ZenTrainer on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:36:31 AM PST

    •  THIS^^^^ (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZenTrainer, mlbx2

      I don't own and will never own a gun. That being said, I know enough to know I don't have the answer to the problems of nation relating to guns/gun control. But why would anyone tar every gun owner with the same brush, call them "paranoid" and not expect folks to to attack that position at the very least, and completely stop listening at most? There's where the lack of common sense comes in.

  •  11 diaries, 5 unique comments (5+ / 0-)

    Look, all you do is dump diaries here to promote your blog so I could give a rat's ass what you have to say about anything.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot

    by paulitics on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:39:47 AM PST

  •  Patriot - why worry? (4+ / 0-)

    It is to be expected that when you write something negative about guns here at dKos, the dKos gun enthusiasts will descend on you crying foul, and accusing you of all sorts of nonsense.  This is what the military calls SNAFU - situation normal, all f**ked up.  The dKos gun enthusiasts will tell you that they are acting only as good community moderators, but their true intent is to silence opinions they do not like, and get you to censor yourself.

    You can not satisfy them, short of writing something positive about guns.  So why try?

    If you feel you have said something wrong and want to retract it, you should do so.  I applaud you for doing that.  But you should only do that if you feel that is right, not from some notion of gaining the acceptance of the gun enthusiasts.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:43:53 AM PST

  •  The real problem I have with the gun fans (5+ / 0-)

    is that their first reaction to the mass shooting of the week is to go into full defense mode and to start up with the posts and emails about Hitler and how they're going to use their guns to resist some imaginary future tyranny.
       They are completely oblivious to the human suffering. Just don't threaten their alleged right to own whatever piece of homicidal firepower they crave.
       

  •  Common sense... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ErikO, Hangpilot, notrouble

    Usually when someone appeals to "common sense", nothing else they say is worth listening to. But I read on anyway, curious to see which fallacy would appear next.

    It is dangerous, agressive and truly serves no greater good.
    How is it aggressive? Were you attacked this morning by gun owners? Did they harm anyone? Did they shoot into the air hollering and chase you back inside after picking up the newspaper off the lawn?

    As for the "serves no greater good" part, that I will concede is true. It serves a personal, private good. I'm scared of what the world would like once the closet fascists and central planning committee self-appointees start forbidding everything that doesn't serve the greater good.

    But imagine if nobody had a gun.
    Why would I imagine something so stupid as this? It is the year 2012, fully thirteen centuries after the gunpowder and firearms had been invented. They are never going away. Ever.

    When people like you tell us to "imagine a world where no one has a gun" what you're really talking about is a world in which the police and the military have guns.

    Why would I trust them to keep the things, considering that you don't trust me to keep them? I've murder zero people in my life and I've got a very good chance of going my entire life never having murdered anyway.

    What's their body count? Even in just the last week?

  •  Sometimes I feel that people labeling themselves (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    glorificus

    "responsible gun owners" proudly proclaim something akin to "I haven't shot anyone (yet), I will not murder anyone if it's unnecessary and I have locked up my guns and ammo so my kids can't shoot themselves in the face! LOOK AT THAT AMAZING LITTLE SHRED OF HUMAN DECENCY THAT I HAVE! I deserve an applause!"

    It's a defense mechanism - mentally separating yourself from the "crazies". Which is another tactic used by gun lovers, focusing on mental health not only to divert attention away from guns but to stipulate the enormous divide between the perpetrators of these crimes and their responsible, decent, upstanding-citizen selves. Most of the time this seems to take priority over being a decent human being and caring about the actual victims, of being shocked and not going into quick-defense mode, of trying to rearrange priorities. That says a lot.

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