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We are seeing a measurable fracture, a two-part breakage to the Republican Party. This results from infiltration of the GOP based on contributions from the same families and sources of money that financed the John Birch Society from the beginning. Birchers in the House are pursuing JBS goals and recycling old-time JBS slogans.

This is the Birch Society, not the populist Tea Party from 2009.

Effectively, based on "Fiscal Cliff" votes and the changeover to 2013, we have three distinct caucuses in the House of Representatives:

-- Regular Democrats (now 201 Members)

-- Business Republicans (84 Members)

-- Birch Society Republicans (150 Members)

Birchers are anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-compromise, and opposed to taxes in all forms and appearances. The Bircher billionaires' agenda is not the mainstream Republican businessmen's agenda.

The Koch family helped found the John Birch Society. They have financed Birchers since 1984 and remain the prime backers for these Bircher Republicans. They assure that JBS ideological slogans and xenophobic paranoia define Bircher campaigns.

Bircher infiltration of the Republican Party (1984-2004 and 2010) is covered in comments from our Jim P and others. As well an array of pro-Birch Society comments from ernie1241 are worth the price of admission by themselves.  

Meanwhile President Obama has set about playing off the House's Bircher and Business Republicans against each other. Significantly, Obama has timed his alternating "Cave"/"No Cave" messages during "Fiscal Cliff" negotiations to maximize the Bircher schism.

Email: Business Republicans are now a minor party at 19% of the House.

For more on the emergence of the Birchers as a political party, read on below le chignon d'orange.

National leaders for this Birch Society Republican party are reported as Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, and Marco Rubio. The earlier populist Tea Party people have quit the game, more than not. One of the co-founders, Mark Meckler, was arrested at New York's LaGuardia Airport and charged with felony possession of a weapon, for trying to get a pistol onto an airliner. Michele Bachmann is the chairman of the 60 Members of the more populist Tea Party Caucus in the House.

Nationally these Bircher Republicans show up pushing traditional John Birch Society positions, often using language that goes back decades. These positions range from eliminating use of fluoride in drinking water to opposing the teaching of evolution to anti-communism and anti-Islam to cutting off use of non-real estate tax revenues to help educate minority students.

Their public statements and the language of the Bills they pass in the House of Representatives fall far outside the bounds of mainstream Bush or Reagan or Eisenhower Republicanism. Still, JBS approved candidates began to achieve success as early as 1984. They replaced normal conservative Republicans steadily through 2004 and then made further inroads in 2010.

The official Tea Party Caucus has 60 members. Hard core Birchers show up with approximately 150 votes on key issues.

Large sums of money flow into some 250 congressional races. The propaganda arm of this movement has centered, in recent years, on Freedomworks. Dick Armey, Jack Kemp, C. Boyden Gray, Bill Bennett, Matt Kibbe, and Steve Forbes served as the familiar right wing mavens. Koch money goes for such as $10 million worth of campaign paraphernalia bearing modernized JBS slogans.

Bircher Republicans say, increasingly, that they are willing to shut down the day-to-day operations of the federal government, to default on debt payment, and to freeze all actions in Congress. Pursuit of the Bircher billionaires' agenda is what matters.

You would be hard pressed to find one elected national-office Democrat who is on board for the main elements of the Bircher agenda. Sixteen Democrats voted against this recent fiscal deal, but none of them are Birchers. (Alan Grayson in Florida helped fund Peg Dunmire. She served as an unwitting False Flag candidate, presenting as a Bircher-Fascisti. She attracted racist voters from a mainstream Republican opponent.)

A typical Bircher Republican reaction to the "Fiscal Cliff" vote is provided by Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina:

"We have not cut spending. In fact, the one place we were supposed to cut spending was on the sequester [and associated measures.] But that got delayed. So our question as conservatives is, when are we going to start this battle over spending? We've waited two years now. We're not going to wait much longer."
Background

The Birchers have run the country to the edge of default and over this "fiscal cliff." What does it take to make a political "battle" in their eyes?

The goals you see in their slogans are difficult to translate to law, except for fighting taxes:

·       Honor the Constitution

·       Reduce the size and intrusiveness of the government

·       Stop raising taxes

·       No more bailouts or crony capitalism

·       Repeal Obamacare

·       Cease out-of-control spending

·       Reduce the national debt

·       Bring back American prosperity and jobs; and as noted by spud1,

·       Restore traditional American values

Of course they oppose any and all jobs bills. Their ideas for traditional values run to bigotry, gun-nut fantasies, and a Pax Americana global militarism.

They demonstrate no awareness of the management issues that underlie the big long-term budget issues. They never say a word about the Big Buck problems: medical expenses for chronic care and elderly disabled patients; the "mission creep" that has driven military spending since the Korean War; and our failure to keep up America's infrastructure of bridges, anti-drought reservoirs, and the like.

"No awareness" is the key. Bircher candidates go out of their way to maintain Know Nothing status. At public events they refuse to answer questions. They never publish position papers or endorse professional work that establishes planned-and-budgeted government policy alternatives.

They like prayer. They do not like government action. And that is the prime drive of 150 Members of this 2013 session of the House of Representatives.

Essentially they are hostile to democracy, which for the United States of America developed from the sceptical, reality-testing premises of the Enlightenment. Here is the text, written by Gouverneur Morris as head copywriter of the 1787 "committee of style" (supporting the legal work of  James Madison), that set forth our core goals and named the country:

Preamble to the Constitution

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

These Birch Society Republicans oppose large-scale government actions that would either "establish Justice" or "promote the general Welfare." They would stop at setting up police and sufficient schools to turn out some number of students with passable literacy.

They were perfectly willing to go to the barricades to eliminate a simple CDC program to get rid of poisonous lead in the environment. The lead is thorooughly documented as poisonous. It affects millions of children. The Birchers would have none of it for federal lead abatement.

Slogans

They are careful to keep their analysis statements to one-liner slogans. Here are the slogans that win top place in one of their polls:

·       Dear President Obama, Did They Accept Our Apologies?

·       It Is When People Forget God That Tyrants Forge Their Chains (Patrick Henry)    

·       George Soros, Puppet Master    

·       God Has Given Us a Christian Nation (John Jay, 1st US Chief Justice)    

·       U.S. Out Of U.N.    

·       We Are Not Tolerant of Treason!    

·       Public Schools: Leftist Re-Education Camps    

·       An Education Without the Bible Is Useless (Noah Webster, Founding Father)    

·       Liberal Congress: Killing Our Economy and Raising Unemployment, Since 2006    

·       Seal The Borders NOW    

·       If Liberals Could Win an Election, Why Would They Need So Much Voter Fraud?    

·       Sheriff Joe Arpaio - A Real American!

·       GOP Leaders, You Are the Problem! We Don't Want Moderates!    

·       BUILD THE FENCE    

·       It Isn't the Quanity (Term Limit), Its the Quality (Character)    

·       Loss of Sovereignty At Core of Obama Agenda    

·       Background Checks and Questionaires for All Politicians, Judges    

·       We Want an In-Depth Investigation of Soros, Obama, and Acorn!    

·       Get 'em Out Now! Every Day They Destroy America More!    

·       Mainstream Media, Hollywood - Guilty of Treason? Yes, They Are!    

·       Don't Expect Wicked Men to Pass Good Laws    

·       Clean Up the National Voter Registration System Up Now!    

·       Thank God for the 2nd Amendment    

·       Remove the RINOs from the Republican Party!    

·       Bring Family Values Back From Liberal Perversions    

·       Spend Our Taxes on National Security, Not Liberal Stupidity!    

·       Wipe Voter Roles Clean! Re-Register "Legal" Voters Only!    

·       Impeach Obama!    

·       O.B.A.M.A. = One Big A** Mistake, America

Apart from references to Soros and Obama, this could be the 1950s Birch Society. "Quanity" is a misspelling. Might have been done by the "moran" guy. And the alleged quote from John Jay is bogus.

Plus that Noah Webster opposed religious education, developed his famous dictionary, and was a supporter but not a participant in the founding of the country. He served Alexander Hamilton by editing the Federalist Party's newspaper from 1793 and then continued successfully in the newspaper and printing business in New York.

The slogans attack the U.N., gun control, moderate Republicans, public schools, Hollywood, and a perceived wickedness in the elected officials of our democracy.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s one of the big John Birch Society themes of the day argued that the Supreme Court had a majority of "secret Communists." These guys today do not get to repeat that claim.

Elections

So that is what you've got for the Third Party. They are what they do.

The presidency is likely out of reach for them. As with Senate seats in the larger-population states, excepting Texas and Florida, there is too much publicity generated with the presidency for Birch Society Republicans to win a general election.  

Presidential primaries are at the balance point. You could see a Bircher win a primary.

Low-population states' Senate seats are another matter. Rural House seats and Bible Belt seats are also winnable for these candidates. Where the winning total is under 500,000 votes and education level is below average, expect Birchers to do well.

State and local elections are raw meat for their candidates. Beware your local school board. They feast on low turnout elections.  

Examples

The Deb Fischer campaign in Nebraska is typical of successful efforts. She offered no discrete policy proposals, repeated the same dozen slogans throughout, and ended up taking 57.8% of the popular vote (455,593 ballots) over Bob Kerrey.

Nebraskans think she is a centerist.

Similarly, Minnesota's 2nd Congressional District is represented by John Kline. They have no idea how he votes on issues. His campaigns echo Bircher slogans, but omit the anti-immigrant rants to achieve a 54.1% victory (193,586 ballots.) There is no local coverage for his actions in Congress.

People there in MN-02 think John Kline is a centerist.

In fact he gets a 97.8% rating on the right. That is about as far right as you can find, as most of these congressmen vote for "left" bills that support their local businesses and regional initiatives. For the fiscal deal, Kline voted with Boehner. Publicly he spoke against compromise with Obama.

It's all a shell game. Birch Society Republicans get campaign contributions from far right billionaires. For those functions they present as Americanize "Fascisti" with fundamental opposition to democratic ideals. They target other contributors bound up with Fundamentalist religiosity and all-out tax avoidance.

They are threats to win seats. They hold at least 150 House seats now and likely have a dozen more Members who backed the fiscal compromise for reason of expediency.

Political Status

This is a strong political party. They may or may not see themselves as a distinct party. They run as a pack, not as a disciplined political party.

The Bircher clast is not like your father's Republican Party. It is the John Birch Society in word and deed. They conceal their agenda -- like Deb Fischer and John Kline -- and present publicly as moderates and good compromisers.

It is in too-large a part the "nut cases," such as the hate-driven bigots that Barry Goldwater worked to remove from his own conservative movement during the 1970s and 1980s.

It is fundamentally destructive.

Obama has succeeded in enhancing this split in his opposition by sharpening the self-identification of Members who vote in the Bircher caucus. Whether the split widens or goes back to status as a hidden fault line remains to be seen.

Obama has worked an effective strategy. He starts out issuing public statements that appear to "cave" on policy issues. Then a day or so later there follow detailed policy proposals from his Cabinet that undo the "caves" and infuriate Business Republican leadership. Political analysis within the two Republican camps is driven to utter confusion.

Birch Society Republicans, more than not, have had no idea what was going on. Birchers do not participate in negotiations.

As the Bircher came to distrust their Business Republican partners, they broke off in mid-December and formed their own political clast.

Obama has to know that the Birchers have no strategy whatsoever for their actions in the House of Representatives.

Birchers in the House have the one mainstream tactic: they vote against taxes. Nothing if not predictable. Even that tactic is in trouble, come March of 2013, because the debt ceiling and the "sequester" deadline are now set for the same day.

Consider the language of Obama's position on the debt ceiling:

President Obama in his weekly address, Honolulu, Hawaii.

January 4, 2013.

And as I said earlier this week, one thing I will not compromise over is whether or not Congress should pay the tab for a bill they’ve already racked up.  If Congress refuses to give the United States the ability to pay its bills on time, the consequences for the entire global economy could be catastrophic.  The last time Congress threatened this course of action, our entire economy suffered for it.  Our families and our businesses cannot afford that dangerous game again.

The main backers of the Business Republicans will need to see expensive alterations to the "sequester" deal to satisfy their donors -- not  possible without offsetting tax increases. Obama presents these revenue increases as "closing loop holes."

Business Republicans also have no use for Bircher squabbles related to the federal debt limit. Their backers live and die by NYSE stock prices.

"Divide and conquer" goes back to Julius Caesar and to Phillip II of Macedonia before him. You betcha, Barack Obama is aware of the concept.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Thank you for the RECOMMEND upgrade.

The comments, here, are quite good. A half-dozen or so take up the effects of this divide amongst the Republicans and carry the analysis further than this diary by miles. Hopefully this will lead to several standalone diaries.

Birch Society Republicans have been "hiding in plain sight." They present themselves as "moderates" in congressional newsletters.

They form up as a major force in American politics -- overtly dishonest, destructive to governance and to democracy. We need to do a lot more than writing them off as a Mad Hatter "Tea Party."

As Joe Biden might say: "This is a big deal."  

Originally posted to bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:59 PM PST.

Also republished by John Birch Society.

Poll

Most confident choice: separation of the Birch Society Republicans from the Business Republicans has this effect:

10%140 votes
2%34 votes
1%23 votes
9%128 votes
10%134 votes
33%442 votes
5%75 votes
1%16 votes
1%15 votes
23%315 votes

| 1325 votes | Vote | Results

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    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:59:59 PM PST

  •  I see the Birchers trying to (72+ / 0-)

    hide in plain sight. What they tell their minions and donors are going to be miles apart from what they project to constituents. See Romney's 47% comments.

    They will try to infiltrate school boards, city councils,
    and local offices pretending to be centrists, but governing as the radicals they are.

    Case in point, many Tea Party organizations declined not to endorse candidates in 2012.  They were trying to elect people sympathetic to their causes under the radar.

  •  When I doorknocked in John Kline's district (35+ / 0-)

    Most people I spoke to believed John Kline was as centrist as  Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-  Minnesota)  .

    " I am voting for John Kline and Amy"

    •  He sends out a newsletter (30+ / 0-)

      that identifies one pro-labor, pro-worker action every month. Not much else.

      You'd think he was an AFL-CIO guy.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:29:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here's a good article about Ron Paul that (9+ / 0-)

        describes that same shell game tactic  in the context of appealing to Birchers and other racists (from David Frum who was seeing the damage that this devolutionary trend in the GOP was about to wreak on his party).

        In the early 80s, between marriages, I was dating a lady whose father was a JBS member.  I had one memorable conversation with him about Holocaust denial.  It was chilling. Eisenhower was a pinko and Hitler was misunderstood.  The early Birch Society was fairly rife with H-deniers and Robert Welch ran out the ringleaders (understanding as he did that this was a poison pill) but the rank and file, like my girlfriend's dad and many Paulites, maintained the racism and conspiracy mongering within the Society, with impunity.  

        See Lee Atwater's nigger speech for an explanation of why that was.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:43:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can you expound the Hitler was misunderstood (0+ / 0-)

          statement as a friend who does some work for people whom I suspect to be birchers, suddenly came up with this exact statement. I have know this person for 25+ years and never before heard any crap like this before.

          •  Simply put, Hitler was the good guy and the Allies (0+ / 0-)

            spun a narrative that was at odds with the millennial fascist reality that the Nazis and the Axis were in the process of bringing much needed order to the world and the Allies fabricated the story about the Holocaust and Axis atrocities because Jews!  It's revisionism at its most mendacious level.  And you should distance yourself from your friend.  He's a racist crackpot.

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 10:36:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Pat Buchanan is typical. (0+ / 0-)

              Did Hitler Want War ?

              There's a lot worse from this man.

              Said the Jewish population in the United States dropped in the 90s because Jews aborted their babies. Buchanan explains that the decline in the American Jewish population (a decline that never occurred, factually), “is a result of the collective decision of Jews themselves. From Betty Friedan to Gloria Steinem in the 1970s to Ruth Bader Ginsburg today, Jewish women have led the battle for abortion rights. The community followed.”

              He's also another one for running drag nets on illegal immigrants.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:33:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  JBS (0+ / 0-)

          Every large organization has to cope with people who join because they think they can manipulate that organization toward their own beliefs.  Many liberals experienced this problem with Communist Party members during the 1940's and 1950's -- for example labor unions and civil rights organizations such as NAACP.

          What you are conflating is two entirely separate issues i.e.  the official position of the JBS regarding such matters as holocaust-denial or bigotry of any kind versus the personal opinions of a member who usually keeps those views to himself because he knows what would happen if he made the JBS aware of his personal views.

          Yes, the JBS had members who were racists, or anti-semites, and other unsavory types --- but if they publicly expressed their bigotry (particularly if it was ever done in connection with the JBS) -- their membership was immediately terminated.

          So for you (or anybody else) to attempt to link the JBS with those expressions of bigotry is maliciously unfair -- UNLESS you are prepared to equally link all left-wing organizations and causes with the bigots or extremists who latch onto those groups as well.

          •  So you have personal experiential knowledge of the (0+ / 0-)

            inner workings of the JBS?  I'd be interested to hear of your experiences.

            As to your charge that I'm being unfair to the JBS, well I don't have any stats, obviously, since they don't exist to my knowledge, just my own experiences over the years interacting with several members.  And since I've had far more interactions with leftists over that same time period and have never met a Communist or anarchist whom I might have been able to label as such had he or she bothered to proselytize me like the several JBS members did, I'm just extrapolating in a very admittedly non scientific way.  

            "Busted,"
            if that's what you want me to say.

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 10:45:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  My Experiences With JBS (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bontemps2012

              Nailbender:  I have debated or talked with hundreds of JBS members during the past 40+ years and I have eviscerated most of their arguments via my detailed online reports about the JBS (and its assertions) which are based, primarily, upon FBI investigative files.  

              For my trouble, the JBS banned me from posting messages on their website forums and many JBS members state or insinuate that I am a Communist or a "New World Order stooge".

              Some of the criticisms of the JBS (especially regarding its contemporary membership) are NOT fact-based nor even fair but much of the criticism of the JBS has been the inevitable result of its own beliefs and behavior.  However, Birchers use the unfair and false comments of ignorant  critics to divert attention from the history of the JBS as an organization -- which many contemporary members know very little about.

              •  "New World Order" stooge -- funny. (0+ / 0-)

                "New World Order" was operational name for the coalition that got put together for our side of the Gulf War.

                I got the tee-shirt with the flags.

                "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:11:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  New World Order (0+ / 0-)

                  Your ignorance is showing again.  "New World Order" is a phrase which originated decades before the Gulf War.

                  When the JBS refers to "NWO" -- they do so in the larger historical context of what they claim has been a century-long effort by "collectivists" to create a "New World Order".

                  Usually, the JBS describes this effort in Manichean terms, i.e. ultimate evil guys (nazis, communists, socialists, liberals, etc) vs ultimate good guys (libertarians and conservatives).

                  The JBS also describes the NWO in terms of a conspiratorial plot to change long-standing moral and cultural norms.  

                  For example, this comment from the April 2011 JBS Bulletin:

                  "The history of the socialist movement in the U.S. is one of advocating mandatory public education. Recall that it is the tenth step toward communizing any country outlined by Karl Marx in The Communist Manifesto…The aim of the Conspiracy has always been to break down the old social order and replace it with the anti-God system of socialism. Kindergarten was part of the breakdown of the old social order and it included that indoctrination of children at an ever-younger age away from their parents."

  •  Orchestrating loons into triggering (38+ / 0-)

    their knee jerk stupididy.

    Obama has succeeded in splitting his opposition by sharpening the self-identification of these Birchers.
    Reminds me of Joe Wilson's Pavlovian barking at the President of The United States on a national stage.
    In September 2009, Wilson received international attention when he interrupted a speech by U.S. President Barack Obama to a joint session of Congress by shouting "You lie!"The incident resulted in a formal rebuke by the House of Representatives.

    Obama reminds me of Bugs Bunny.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:42:03 PM PST

    •  It's Not Hard To Predict Their Behavior, Thus (6+ / 0-)

      They are easily manipulable.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:40:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Business GOPers, the Bizzies (0+ / 0-)

        used to think that.

        Then the Birchers found out how to copy Bizzy camouflage. Come 1984 the Birchers started beating Bizzies at the polls, particularly in Red State seats.

        Birchers are dangerous.

        Luckily there are still enough Bizzies in the House to enable a Dem+Bizzy alliance.

        Recently the Birchers have benefited from the "Hastert Rule" where they could control the flow of Bills by holding a majority in the Republican Caucus. Look for that to go away.

        If things get tight, don't be surprised to see a couple dozen Business Republicans support the Dems. Maybe 50 of the 84.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 07:45:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  BTW, I Have Referred To Obama as Bugs (5+ / 0-)

      Before, as i t's quite apt.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:41:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Penicillin resistant vermin, let's burn 'em out (8+ / 0-)

    1-O SSS Conscientious Objector to War 1972. Democrat. BA English.

    by Fulgour on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:43:25 PM PST

  •  Seems like the Koch brothers GOT results. (18+ / 0-)

    They sure got themselves some hellacious tax cuts on Wednesday. Spent 3 billion, it probably paid off about 10 to one for them.

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:51:17 PM PST

      •  Dad's Quote (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        majcmb1, bontemps2012, NoMoreLies

        He claimed that the Democratic and Republican Parties were infiltrated by the Communist Party, and he supported Mussolini's suppression of communists. He wrote that "The colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take over America," and that public welfare was a secret plot to attract rural blacks and Puerto Ricans to Eastern cities to vote for Communist causes and "getting a vicious race war started.

        •  Get the whole quote. (0+ / 0-)

          Get the link.

          Get the info on the circumstances.

          Write the #$%^&^% diary, redo for copy editing accuracy, then publish it !!

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:27:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  At the beginning of August (17+ / 0-)

      every year there is a huge (biggest in the NE) farm equipment show in Seneca Co, upstate NY.

      Along with the giant John Deere tractors, the latest in milking parlors, the plowing demonstrations, Cornell Cooperative Extension, there is always a John Birch Society tent.

      We've managed to stay away.  But I'm sure they get plenty of TP types stopping by.  

      •  Please, go and collect their hand-outs. (19+ / 0-)

        Then come here with a diary that provides the text and images from what they are handing out.

        Any progressive fighting against their sub rosa candidates at the local level will be able to make use of these resources.

        Birchers are basically crazy. Paranoid and willing to share their fantasies, e.g. "birther madness."

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:59:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  We'll see about collecting garbage (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          at the Farm Show - haven't gone in a couple of years.  Usually a day wallowing in the mud or dying in the mid-summer blast furnace.

          As for images of lit, they might be mostly covered with barf.

          I will say that the Democrats nationally have got to stop ceding the rural areas to the RePIGs & Conservatives.  It's a lot of hooey to shovel through, but they are well dug into the fabric of life around here.  

          One of the biggest problems is they are low information voters.  Not at all understanding the complexities of current economics, state of the union.  Very dependent upon FAUX  and other TV propaganda.  Daily newspapers from urban areas have long been dropped for affordability and delivery problems.  The weeklies with the Boy Scout troop news have begun to feel the pinch.  

          Plus, they are used to service.  Too many Democrats when they do get into office, do not give the kind of hand holding, personal attention and service the Republicans do.  

          There is virtually NO economics education in high schools.  Even my high school, in a suburb of Yale (so to speak), in the 1960's, had none.  Maybe some business majors get it in college.  Not much in the community colleges around here which provide the back bone of further education in this area.  

          I had to willfully take it when I went back to college in the 1980's.  Not considered to be part of liberal arts requirements, or sciences or computing.  I was probably the only Art History major in 101 & 102.

          So when you have people comparing the national debt to their own households, it's not unexpected.  Because if you don't understand that sometimes the pump has to be primed, your instinct is to say, "NO, I can't afford that dinner out with the head pooh-bah of the local manufacturing company, and I can't afford to buy a jacket to go."  

          "We can't afford more taxes to repair the broken bridge", not understanding that the money pumped into the economy turns over and multiplies.  

          "People will just have to continue a total of 4 miles down the road to the next bridge.  And I don't go that way much anyways."

          I used to think it was education - if people were just educated then they would understand.  What a Polly-anna I was!  Don't forget the negative thinking patterns are ingrained into family upbringing, religion, social networks.  And education is spit upon.

          During the 50's & '60's people with such educations were in control of the media.  We all know how that has changed.  

    •  The Koch brothers taxes probably went up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012, majcmb1

      Most of their income very likely comes as capital gains.  The tax on capital gains over $400K a year went up from 15% to 20%.

      We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

      by david78209 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:28:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  39.6% would have been more like it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        david78209

        It was 30% during Clinton's early years.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:40:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Briefly, under Reagan, there rates were equal (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          Ronald Reagan was impressed with how the 92% income tax rate in WWII and the 1950's persuaded him not to bother making more than two movies a year.  He may also have been impressed that at the same time, the top rate on capital gains was much less.  
          He got Congress to eliminate the difference, briefly.  I think that lasted just two years.

          We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

          by david78209 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:16:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  No, the Koch brothers taxes went down. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tardis10, bontemps2012, NoMoreLies

        Prior to the bill's passage, their capital gains tax would have been much higher. They successfully locked in something like 3/4 of their once-temporary Bush tax cuts.

        As I said -- they're certainly getting their money's worth. They'll have made their 3 billion dollars back within 12 months. Everything after that will be gravy.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:12:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  barry goldwater (13+ / 0-)

    was a nut case.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:05:28 PM PST

    •  Not at all. Try reading up on the guy. (5+ / 0-)

      When his favorite grandson came in gay as a little boy, Barry learned compassion and took to applying it.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:00:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He may have been, but compared to today's GOP (7+ / 0-)

      he was a poster boy for sanity.

      Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

      by Dirtandiron on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:49:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly what I was going to say. (7+ / 0-)

        In his day he was the dangerous loon calling for nuking China, et cetera, but compared to the current general, run of the mill Congressional GOPer, he's almost Moderate.
        He was, however, the crack in the dam. Before him, Republicans kept their thoughts along these lines to themselves. Being a Bircher or a Goldwater type was considered by most people in both parties, to be way out past the jetty.
        But he legitimized the crazy.
        And then Reagan put a smiley face on it and it went national.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:20:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Goldwater's (11+ / 0-)

          presidential campaign and the resulting Johnson landslide had two political effects, one obvious and immediate, the other hidden and long-term.

          The first was a public pulling-back by the Republic Party from all forms of extremism, not necessarily because the party leaders thought Goldwater crazy or extreme, or didn't agree with him (though many did not), but be cause he lost bigtime. It was operationally the same thing as what the Democratic Party did in the wake of McGovern's lopsided loss to Nixon in 1972 - head for the center.

          The second was happening completely out of public view. Horrified by the extent of Goldwater's defeat, and quite certain that the US was well on its way to becoming a communist country that would confiscate their fortunes, a very small group of very wealthy mean, including Richard Mellon Scaife, James Olin, Adolf Coors and three or four others, came together and made a pact. They pledged to put in millions of dollars a year (and this was back when a million bucks was real money) to build a conservative infrastructure. They took their seed money and founded think tanks, lobby shops, Young Republicans and Young Americans for Freedom campus groups, publication houses, and much of the rest of the apparatus of what we think of as the modern conservative movement (not Fox News, and not the religious right, though, those came later). They knew this was going to be a long struggle, and they pledged to donate that funding for as long as it took. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent every decade from then on.

          They didn't have to wait very long; their first big win, the Reagan presidency, only took 16 years to achieve, but they didn't stop until they'd achieve complete success. That happened in 2000.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:13:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The timing for their effort went to 1972 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            antirove, NoMoreLies

            and the Powell Memo for creation of the main infrastructure of the initial Business Republicans' Powell System.

            Paul Weyrich went out and talked with Adolph Coors, who committed to funding Heritage Foundation and followed up helping raise the money for the whole system of corporatist think tanks.

            AEI and the rest were up and running within a couple of years.

            These Bircher Republicans remained outside the main tent until 1984, when they started getting big money from the far right billionaires. From there they began a slow process of replacing business Republicans over most of the country. This continued till 2004, then renewed strength in 2010.

            The various Powell System organizations have also fallen in line, more than not, with the ideological imperatives of the far right billionaire group.

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:38:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Same goes for Nixon and Reagan nm (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, bontemps2012

        There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

        by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:07:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  i was comparing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, bontemps2012

        to people who are not nut cases, not to people who are extreme nut cases.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:22:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The sly way we can harness that movement (0+ / 0-)

    I believe that the only way to reduce our out-of-control military/CIA imperialism is to shift power from the Federal goverment to the States.  Slash the Fed budget across the board, move social services to the States, and rely more on NATO cooperation for national defense.

    The common ground is States Rights.

    It'll never happen but it's a way to control the message.  And who knows maybe we can actually reduce the military madness.

    •  Srlsy? Want to privates Social Security and Medica (12+ / 0-)

      re too?  U think drowning the federal government in the bathtub will make us all free?

      The last crowd who talked of 'state's rights' only wanted to enslave brown people. This crowd wants to enslave everyone but them.

      The New Deal did not create the MIC, nor does it sustain it.  Usually the opposite.

      U need some perspective imo.  

      •  How else to cut Military spending? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shockwave, bontemps2012

        It might take people working together to crack that nut. lol no pun intended to Birchers :)

        •  Well, letting the "sequester" formula (6+ / 0-)

          kick in is straightforward. That is one step.

          Then look for another step. Then another.

          Birchers want to cut everything except the military.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:02:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Birchers and Military (0+ / 0-)

            You could not be more mistaken.

            The JBS would support ANY serious attempt to reduce our military spending because they want the U.S. to stop intervening in the affairs of foreign countries.

            That is why the JBS supported Cong. Ron Paul.  Surely you understand that Cong. Paul's entire political career was based upon a non-interventionist foreign policy and that he opposed ALL of our most recent wars??

            How could you make such a comment when the JBS position is exactly OPPOSITE of what you claim?

            •  Bircher candidates rarely back Paul's (0+ / 0-)

              talk about cutting the military budget.

              The Birch Society went on for decades pushing anti-communism in all its militarized glory. That's where the Kochs are today and what they spend money backing.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 10:39:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Mistaken Again (0+ / 0-)

                Yes the JBS was anti-communist but it did NOT support a globalist or internationalist foreign policy.  Furthermore, the JBS associates itself with Cong. Ron Paul -- and anybody remotely familiar with his positions knows that U.S. military involvement is not something he favors anywhere on this planet.

                The JBS position has ALWAYS been that we should NOT have military alliances such as NATO, SEATO, or anything involving the United Nations.

                The JBS position regarding Communist countries was that (1) we should withdraw diplomatic recognition from ALL of them and (2) we should isolate them diplomatically and commercially.  

                The JBS position was that if we adopted JBS ideas, the Communist nations would collapse on their own.  And only Western economic and diplomatic support enabled Communist countries to survive and prosper.

                •  JBS changed many public positions (0+ / 0-)

                  in the late 1990s.

                  But what you see now for "Bircher" Congressmen is not tied to today's rebranding efforts. Get over that.

                  The traditional Bircher aims are what you see. Like it was 1969.

                  "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                  by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:19:43 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Changes in JBS Positions (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bontemps2012

                    Bontemps:   Since you do not provide any specific details regarding which JBS positions you think have "changed" since the late 1990's, there is no way to appropriately address your comment except for saying this:

                    The JBS has NEVER retracted even one statement, assertion, premise, or conclusion since its inception in December 1958.

                    Contemporary JBS publications often quote verbatim excerpts from JBS publications which originally were published in the 1960's or later because their positions now are exactly the same as they were decades ago.

                    For example:  in 2002 the JBS published a new edition of Robert Welch's infamous manuscript entitled "The Politician" which originally was written in the 1950's.  This is the book-length "private letter" in which Robert Welch described President Eisenhower as "a dedicated conscious agent of the Communist Conspiracy".  

                    The back cover of the new 2002 edition tells readers that "The Politician" represents "the bitter, but little known truth" about our postwar history (specifically the Eisenhower years).  

                    Furthermore, the closing comment on the back cover is as follows:

                    "But most importantly, The Politician exposes that 'conspiracy of gangsters' which even now is setting America's foreign and domestic policy."

                    The "conspiracy of gangsters" is put in quotation marks by the JBS because it referred to a specific comment originally made by Welch in 1954 when he described Eisenhower as an enemy of our country who "is either a willing agent, or an integral and important part, of a conspiracy of gangsters determined to rule the world at any cost."

                    So the JBS narrative has never changed and, according to the new 2002 edition, that "conspiracy of gangsters" continues to set American foreign and domestic policy.

                    And in May 2008, the JBS Bulletin contained this observation:

                    “Just as the John Birch Society showed in the 1960's that the communists basically ran both the civil rights movement and the KKK, the strategy was nothing new. The former was used to transfer power to Washington DC in the name of civil rights and the latter provided a pretext for transferring power to Washington. You cannot get a really good conflict started unless you control both sides of the argument.”

                    So, once again, the JBS continues to disseminate its delusional views (first published in the 1960's) about our civil rights movement.

                    Once again, you have revealed that YOU have NO genuine knowledge about the Birch Society.  Instead, you merely want to circulate whatever fictions conform to your own political preferences.

                    This is an example of why the JBS can so easily dismiss and ridicule opponents like yourself -- because you make statements about the JBS which are wholly false or gross exaggerations.

                    •  Thanks for making my point. (0+ / 0-)

                      The audience is likely interested in seeing Bircher paranoid delusions presented, not in following every twist of their statements.

                      The web site, today, tries to rebrand with every web page. They simulate sanity, mostly.

                      But the core of what they have attracted, plus the utter paranoid madness, have not changed underneath. They're better at camouflage.

                      They'd like us to think that Welch was not mentally disordered. And that their complaints about America are based on fact instead of delusion.

                      You are offering more proof here.

                      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                      by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:31:45 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You STILL Miss The Point (0+ / 0-)

                        There has been no "twist" in JBS statements.

                        What they believe TODAY is exactly what they believed 50+ years ago.

                        So what the hell are you talking about?

                        Your comment above is more gibberish.  It is completely devoid of facts.  Nothing you write makes any sense.

        •  How to cut defense spending? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          Keep voting for people who understand two things:

          1. The US budget (including the black budget)
          2. The meaning of the word compromise

    •  I understand your sentiment, the federal (4+ / 0-)

      government is rife with corruption.

      But it's the corruption we need to fight, not the federal government.

      Physics is bulls**t. Don't let them fool you. Fire IS magic.

      by Pescadero Bill on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:09:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where is the Federal government (0+ / 0-)

        "rife with corruption" ???

        Examples ???????

        Obama has reduced scandals to the near-zero level. Very careful with appointments.....

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:45:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It looks like the Empire is striking back (46+ / 0-)

    Boehner is already busy tossing Teabaggers off important committees and doing his best to marginalize them.

    In a further effort to wrest control of the asylum back from the loons, the RNC, NRSC and a new PAC led by Steve LaTourette plan to interfere heavily in primary races to ensure wack-jobs like Angle. Akin, O'Donnell, etc., don't ruin GOP chances.

    From Politico:

    The disastrous 2012 election and embarrassing fiscal cliff standoff has brought forth one principal conclusion from establishment Republicans: They have a primary problem.

    The intra-party contests, or threat thereof, have become the original sin that explains many of the party’s woes in the minds of GOP leaders. It’s the primaries that push their presidential nominees far to the right (see “self-deportation” and “47 percent”); produce lackluster Senate candidates (Todd Akin has almost become a one-word shorthand); and, as seen most vividly in the last two weeks, dissuade scores of gerrymandered House members from face-saving compromise while politically emasculating their speaker.

    What to do about the primaries has become Topic A in many a post-election Republican soul-searching session, and now the first steps are being taken to address the issue. For Senate Republicans, that means a modified return to their 2010 posture of openly playing in primaries. A retiring House Republican is starting a super PAC to help House members challenged from the right. And an RNC commission is mulling over changes to the party’s presidential primary.

    This is, predictably, going over like a lead balloon at sites like Hot Air and Redstate, where the wingnuts are pledging to go third party rather than submit to the establishment.

    Fun times ahead!

    •  Uncle Steve (6+ / 0-)

      (friend of a family member) has always been "moderate." (So to speak.) I would never have voted for him (luckily I never had to make that choice) but I remember during the W years he was really upset by the bullying going on in the House. He was very publicly opposed to the war, but there was some kind of event where they kept him up all night - I have no idea what kind of threats they issued - but he suddenly turned at the last minute. I know he told a story about the GOP leadership threatening peoples' families. Like I think they told one guy they'd keep his kid out of the college he applied to. So not like Godfather threats, but still, stupid shenanigans that pissed off a lot of moderates.

      Energy, Budget Tax cuts, Lift American Spirits

      by my pet rock on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:11:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Fun times, indeed! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tardis10, bontemps2012, NoMoreLies

      Especially when the corporate wing of the party starts counting the popular vote and realizes they can't actually win elections without the backing of the Birchers and the religio-crazies (which is why they recruited them in the first place, back in the 1980's). There just aren't enough "businesspeople" in the country, and many too many workers.

      Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. Pass the popcorn, please!

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:20:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another, slightly less controversial set of names: (25+ / 0-)

    You can use the old ideological standbys of "Progressive" (maybe half the democratic caucus, or a bit less - who want to make positive changes to government and society), "Conservative" (the rest of the democrats and a small handful of Republicans, who want to maintain the status quo), and "Regressive" (most of the Republican party, who want to return to some bizarre idealistic vision of the past that includes a new anti-islam cold war, witch burnings, lynchings, robber barons, the gold standard, and the death of the New Deal).

    I've frequently commented that while I support Obama, I don't really like him, politically - I am a socialist/progressive, while he - and most of the rest of the Democratic party - is a conservative.  I want to see fairly dramatic changes taking us in a new and better direction, where he wants at most incremental change - see his refusal to even broach the idea of Single Payer.

    •  Obama has identified himself as (12+ / 0-)

      a '50's moderate republican.  Progressives have few reps.

      Republic party separates into the Dominionists and the Banksters.

      •  That's not bad at all. (9+ / 0-)

        Banksters and Business Republicans are synonyms. There's maybe a handful of Business Representatives from religious communities who are solid enough to vote to rein in the corporate banksters. Not much more than a handful.

        Dominionists and their Mormon partners intersect strongly with this Bircher Republican clast.

        I took the "Bircher" nomenclature in deference to the prime directive of political science: Follow The Money. The Kochs founded the John Birch Society, financed propaganda for these concepts all through the last 60 years, and put huge amounts of money into the Birchers' campaigns.

        The John Birch Society predates Heritage, AEI and the like -- the Powell System think tanks -- by 20 years. Dominionist organizations are recent creations by comparison.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:14:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is overlap, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          the possibility of division there is interesting.
          For a while I've referred to the Birchers as TeaBaggers (hey, they chose it, not me). And to the Business Republicans as Corporate Lackeys. The Dominionists are the Jeebus faction, mostly hangovers from the Reagan years and the Abortion fight. Some of them really ARE Dominionists. That is, they really do want to install a theocracy here, by whatever means necessary and have deeply infiltrated the Military, Onward Christian Soldiers kinda thing.
          The main thing with the Jeebus crowd is that they gave their support to the GOP and didn't get the results they wanted, Abortion is still legal, DOMA is unenforceable and going down, prayer in schools is still unconstitutional, et cetera. So as a political force, the Jeebus crowd are very frustrated with electoral politics as a whole and their activism in this arena is fading. That was why the GOP needed a new handle to rally their footsoldiers with, hence TeaBaggers.
          These same people bear a strong resemblance to Nixon's Silent Majority too.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:33:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Prayer in schools is not unconstitutional. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CwV

            Doing it as an organized school event is.

            Otherwise, you've got a bull's eye if you want to ignore Follow The Money.

            My take is that this is a "Birch Society Republican" phenomenon because the big money behind it is the same family money that has financed the Birch Society. And they push the same slogans and agenda.

            Same level of enforced stupidity, too.

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:49:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's the Dominionists who are threatening (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          elected officials on every level w/being primaried. The Heritage Foundation (read Koch's) just hired away Jim DeMint from the Senate (as he was their teabag leader in the Senate) to specialize the foundation in selecting officials at ALL levels w/primarying if they don't toe the line.
          Included w/the Koch's are many other billionaires such as the Coors, de Vos's, Peterson's, Simmons', Scaifes and many of the Texas oils billionaires.  The religious billionaires contributed far more to to republics at all levels. Please don't underestimate the hundreds of millions they pore into radio, think tanks, elections, every year, not just once every four years.  The banksters are second class when it comes to how much they use for bribes.

      •  Obama didn't say he is a moderate Republican. (4+ / 0-)

        He said people in the 80's would have called him an Eisenhower moderate Republican. In an interview (reported 12/14/12) with Noticias Univision 23, Obama responded to a questioner's comment that some Cuban-Americans were worried that he favored a socialist model for the U.S.:

        “The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican.

        I mean, what I believe in is a tax system that is fair. I don’t think government can solve every problem. I think that we should make sure that we’re helping young people go to school. We should make sure that our government is building good roads and bridges and hospitals and airports so that we have a good infrastructure. I do believe that it makes sense that everyone in America, as rich as this country is, shouldn’t go bankrupt because someone gets sick, so the things I believe in are essentially the same things your viewers believe in." Link

        The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

        by ybruti on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:00:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please, flesh this out and diary it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NoMoreLies

          What is an Eisenhower Republican ?

          (The 1956 Republican Platform was hand written by President Eisenhower, 95% of it.)

          What did Eisenhower do?

          (Sending troops into Mississippi was Eisenhower, not Kennedy. Ike appeared willing to kill KKK on sight. They were warned they would be strip searched for weapons immediately.)

          What was the tax code?

          Please-please-please. Do it up right.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:54:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Also, Eisenhower should be remembered (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bontemps2012

            as the only U.S. president to uphold international law re the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. When Britain, France and Israel attacked Egypt during the Suez Crisis of 1956, the U.S. supported the principle that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible and there should be no spoils of war in the modern age. Because of pressure from the U.S., Israel relinquished nearly all the territory it had occupied in the attack. Eisenhower said, memorably:

            Should a nation which attacks and occupies foreign territory in the face of United Nations disapproval be allowed to impose the conditions of its withdrawal? If we agree, then I fear we will have turned back the clock of international order.
            (quoted in "When Eisenhower Used the Big Stick: A Lonely Precedent," Middle East International, Jan. 1977.  Also, quoted in MEI, May 1975.
            Today, Article 49 of the Geneva Conventions clearly prohibits the Israeli settlements on the West Bank, but U.S. presidents have not shown Eisenhower's respect for international law.

            The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

            by ybruti on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:24:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, big change is needed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      Even the dumb Birchers intuitively know that we have a problem in the Federal Government.  

      I appreciate all the people working to try to improve the Fed Gov, especially here at Dkos, but its not just a Dem vs Rep vs Bircher fight.  Removing some of the power of the Fed Gov might not be such a bad idea.  "States Rights" is something that resonates with a lot of ordinary people.

      Can Single Payer be a "States Rights" issue?

      Should we rely on the Federal goverment?  It seems so broken to me.

      •  Power, to be manifest, has to hurt. (10+ / 0-)

        That is why it is best dispersed over the whole population, only to be assembled when actually needed. Individuals seeking public office for the power should be disqualified on the spot. Public office is for service, not ruling.
        Incompetents make poor servants.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:46:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  If we copied Vermont for health care, (7+ / 0-)

        then "states rights" could make some sense.

        I would be happy to see chronic care patients treated at Community Health Clinics and supported with a V.A. OpenVistA computer/database system. Cost goes down by 1/2 and better. Quality goes up as useless billing-driven "referrals" are eliminated.

        But there's not much where states are better/smarter than federal civil servants. Federal standards are what drive improvement, much more than not.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:19:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And state governments are (5+ / 0-)

          less watched and easier to corrupt. This is why the Corporate GOP types have gotten on board with "States Rights" because they can afford to lobby 50 separate state governments while defending against them is tougher.
          Where Single Payer/Healthcare policy can benefit from state by state adoption is in the "Laboratory" function. We'll try Vermont's system and compare it's outcomes to California's system and Texas's system, et cetera, after 5 years or so and by then we'll be able to see what works, what fails and how to fix.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:39:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  If only all states were politically VT. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, bontemps2012

          Think about what "state's rights" healthcare would look like in MS.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:25:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  So instead of addressing one big 'broken' gov't, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012, vcmvo2, Vatexia, sidnora

        you'd rather we address 50+ smaller gov'ts?

        And then, of course, there's the matter of funding (funny how few of the 'state's rights' areas are in states that actually support themselves).

        The federal gov't is broken because of the 'state's rights' crowd (and philosophy!) -- with direct links back to the Southern Strategy.

      •  The whole point of single payer... (5+ / 0-)

        ...is that it works because you are spreading risk among the largest possible population.

      •  One nation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        I too have been tempted by the idea of "state's rights" thinking my state might choose policies more to my liking than, say, Idaho.  
        But I think that can create a lot of undesirable results, unless you also want to start restricting people from moving from one state to another.  Do we want to create little Balkan states with border patrols?  I don't think so.
        I think we need to ask ourselves how much we want states to be different.  In what policies do we want to be uniform, and where is variation fine?  
        I'm ok with different colors on license plates.  Not so much with different child health care.  And I'd really like to see the end of states competing to give away tax breaks.

        I'm still mad about Nixon.

        by J Orygun on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:49:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He has brought more significant change through (6+ / 0-)

      his methods than I have seen in a long time.  He also works under the radar, moving things forward until he thinks its time to make a public push, for example gay marriage.

    •  How Do You Know He WANTS Incremental Change? (9+ / 0-)

      As opposed to him believing incremental change is the most practical and effective way of achieving ANY change?

      Be careful when you assume you know his motivations or what he really wants.

      Personally, I believe he wants change, but believes it's more effectively accomplished incrementally.

      Do I know this for sure? No. But neither do you.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:45:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because that judgment squares with the reality (0+ / 0-)

        Of his actions.

        A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

        by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:18:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No It Doesn't (3+ / 0-)

          You can't read his mind, so you can't know what he desires.

          Again, it's just as plausible he WANTS dramatic change, but realizes that in order to make change, it must be more incremental.  The only way to know for sure would be to read his mind.

          Frankly, the change he's accomplished, by recent historical standards, is relatively dramatic. ACA, for example. Something that has been attempted but never actually accomplished.

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:28:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't tell me what you believe. (5+ / 0-)

            Show me what you do and I will know what you believe.  To paraphrase one of meteor blades's tag lines.

            I am not going to rehash all of the ways Obama has been a huge disappointment to progressives.  

            In the final analysis I don't care what he believes.  I only care about what he accomplishes.  What he has accomplished and what he says he wants to accomplish puts him squarely in the camp of Eisenhower republican.

            That may be the best we can hope for, but it is what it is.

            A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

            by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:56:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There is truth to you comment, but (5+ / 0-)

              We need to be realistic. In this age of big money campaigns we are lucky to have a President who is not simply a rubber stamp for the Kochs and other business interests. I think we would have had such a President if Romney had won.

              Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

              by Dirtandiron on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:58:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bribery and blackmail. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dirtandiron, Beetwasher

                The Twin Towers, neither of which apply to Obama. Romney's tax scams and his driving that killed Leola Anderson were enough to assure a disaster of a presidency.

                Getting way from major corruption is a blessing.

                "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:24:03 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't believe that bribery or blackmail (0+ / 0-)

                  Would have applied to Romney or that it applied to W.

                  Big money corrupts our politics, no question, but the democrats appear to be as uninterested in addressing election reform as the pukes.

                  A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

                  by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:14:35 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  And isn't it amazing (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Beetwasher, Ramoth, No Exit, bontemps2012

                  that as much as they have tried, as much as he's been under the microscope for the past 4 years, not one actual crime or scandal has attached itself to him? Or to the people he hired to work for him? This has to be one of the cleanest administrations in modern history.

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:43:47 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  For all my disappointments in him (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Beetwasher, No Exit, bontemps2012

                    politically, I am beyond grateful for who he is as a person.

                    He appears to be aware, every moment that he is in public, of the enormous expectations that he is personally bearing, and he's doing a remarkable job of bearing them, with grace. The burden must be crushing at times.

                    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

                    by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:30:51 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  If you are disappointed, you have not (0+ / 0-)

                      been counting the vote lists up on Cap Hill.

                      ACA was damn near a parallel to passing the 13th Amendment. With more lives in the balance.

                      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:59:17 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I HAVE been watching closely (0+ / 0-)

                        and in general, I'm actually, kinda surprised that he's accomplished as much as he has, particularly when he had Pelosi running the House. And I have been labeled as one of the "cheerleader" "Obamabots" that a lot of Lefties like to beat on (not so much here at the GOS, but at other "Purer" Progressive sites). Yeah, I do support what he's done and what he's tried to do, but with clear eyes. There are things I'd like to see him do better (kicking GOP butt) and things I'd like to see him stop doing (drone warfare).
                        But I figured that anyone climbing into that chair in 2009 was up against a hurricane of headwind, that no progress would be possible and that Obama would be defeated after a single disastrous term, not because of who he is but because of the situation he was handed. The day he was elected, the Onion ran a headline: "Black Guy Gets Worst Job in the World" and that wasn't snark.
                        I have been a strong supporter of the ACA but that doesn't mean that I'm not disappointed that it isn't Single Payer. Getting the toe in the door is a major accomplishment, considering all the people that tried and failed to get even this far, the man is almost a miracle. But even he knows that it could be better.

                        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                        by CwV on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 06:36:54 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Nor Even A Plausibly Contrived Scandal (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bontemps2012

                    Birterism doesn't count.

                    In some ways, the viciousness of the GOP is responsible, it has created a political natural selection among the Democraic ranks.  We are left with mostly those Democratic politicians who are best adapted and able to withstand the slanderous no holds barred villification that is currently practiced by the GOP.

                    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                    by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:00:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Except That's Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              v2aggie2, bontemps2012

              If I'm put in situations where I absolutely need to compromise and make deals to accomplish goals.  Then what I do might not necessarily reflect what I truly believe or desire, it only reflects what I'm able to accomplish towards my goals given the situational reality.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:10:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Except its not bullshit (0+ / 0-)

                Because the well worn cliche that Obama has been forced to compromise his "real beliefs" is belied by all the times he has compromised those "real beliefs"  in situations where republicans were not a limiting factor.

                Your explanation of why Obama's actions don't reflect his "true" views falls woefully short of explaining away many decisions that fall squarely outside of what could and should be expected of a progressive or liberal president.

                A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

                by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:07:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  For Every Situation You Believe You Know His (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bontemps2012

                  True motivation, there are alternate, plausible explanations for his actions that do not assume your personal prejudiced preconceptions about him.  You just are not willing to accept them because of course, you can discern his true intent, through you microscope, from here in the peanut gallery.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:41:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't know and don't care what his true (0+ / 0-)

                    Motivations are, as I have said repeatedly.

                    I am judging him by what he does and says.  Even you admit he has acted more like an "Eisenhower republican" with the caveat that this is necessary because he must compromise with republicans as they are now.  I pointed out that there are many instances where Obama has acted like an "Eisenhower republican" and republicans were not a limiting factor.

                    I can't figure out why you appear to be so invested in believing that he is a secret liberal or progressive in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

                    A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

                    by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:27:54 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I Never Admitted Any Such Thing (0+ / 0-)

                      But its curious how you only like to focus on any decisions or actions that you believe defy classic progressive principals, while denying those that fit squarely in the mold.  Otherwise you'd be forced to admit his policies as implemented are a mixed bag of liberal mixed with centerist to moderate conservative.  Therefore to peg him as a.conservative athwart, with the desire for conservative policies, is intellectually dishonest.  

                      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                      by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:55:47 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  He misses the "Cave" / "No Cave" system. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Beetwasher

                    Obama leaks news of a "cave."

                    Then after the Business Republican leadership make asses of themselves, he has a Cabinet Member go out and hit 'em between the eyes with a 2x4.

                    "No cave."

                    This has gone back and forth for a year of it.

                    Neither side of the Republican mess are capable of evaluating Obama's underlying tactics. They keep on rolling around in their own shit and mud.

                    Sorry about that....

                    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                    by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:05:09 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Pigs don't fly ??? (0+ / 0-)

                How disappointing....

                "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

                by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:00:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Iacta alia est (21+ / 0-)

    Bircher delenda est.

    Also, very well said and I couldn't agree more. They aren't technically a party, but they act like one within the coalition known as the GOP. Despite having more members in it, they don't control it, and likely never will. Wall St. and big corporations do. Always have, always will. And they won't let them destroy the economy. That would be bad for business. I think they've had their high water mark, and the GOP now views them as a liability more than a blessing. Once they realize that they're not GOP insiders and don't have the sway that their numbers might indicate, they may well leave and form their own party, making them a real party proper. At which point the GOP will be a rump party like the Whigs and Dems will run everything, at least at the national level. Regionally, the Birchers will be a problem, like southern Dems in the years leading up to the Civil War. We'll have to find a way to deal with them. Hopefully non-violent. But they're not going to go down without a fight of some sort.

    We will beat them. But it'll take a while and won't be fun.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:38:56 PM PST

    •  I live in a hotbed area for this and I think what (8+ / 0-)

      is called for is more exposure.  It has to be done with careful framing but I think it can be done.  The President has helped by making these folks step out into the light of day.  One way I thought of in my area that has a long tradition of cherishing autonomy would be to tie the idea of outside meddling through ALEC to these people.  Also no one likes to be conned and focusing on the dissembling will bear fruit if it can be traced (campaign rhetoric versus how one votes in elected office).  We definitely need to get more people into those rooms where only the insiders get to hear the real story.

    •  "Divide et impera" is easier to make work. (5+ / 0-)

      The more the Business Republican seats fall over to Bircher Republicans, the easier it is for Democrats to manipulate the weakened Business clast.

      Every time a Bircher wins a primary, look at it as a small step forward for Obama's general strategy. Weakening the Business Republicans -- what you call "the GOP" -- is key to getting legislation through the House and to a lesser extent through the Senate.

      When a Bircher takes a House seat, that means there will be one more ill informed, destructive, politically vulnerable incumbent in the next election cycle.

      Wanna run against a Bircher or a Business ???

      Birchers absorb enormous piles of donation money to get reelected. Reportedly Bachmann spent 20:1 to eek out a tight win in 2012. It gets worse for her going forward.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:30:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Business GOP Gets It On Both Ends (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, bontemps2012, a2nite

        If they survive the primary, the seat is ripe for Dem pickup, as these survivors will be more likely from districts that are more vulnerable to Dem challengers.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:38:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Actually, more like FOUR parties (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citylights, Shockwave, bontemps2012

    Splitting the Progressive Dems from the Business Dems, or the Democrats in the House and Senate who voted for or against the "cliff" bill.  

    (There weren't many Progressive ones.)  

    •  Because us going over the cliff would (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012, vcmvo2

      be so pleasant for the poor and elderly that no good progressive wouldn't have supported us taking that path? This is a terrific example of the meme "my position is de facto the position, and the only position, of legitimate progressives".

    •  I guess that means (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      Bernie Sanders isn't a progressive, then.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:34:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh, no, just agreeing with (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Sen. Harkin, and Reps. Xavier Becerra, Earl Blumenauer, Rose DeLauro, Jim McDermott, and Bobby Scott, on this.

        Making the Bush tax cuts permanent, and calling 450k a year "middle class," are not Progressive ideas.  But I understand it's hard to vote on the left when your party's president is a conservative, "business" Democrat, and publicly pushing the caucus right.  There are not many Dems willing to resist his pressure at this point.

        •  I heard Sanders explain his vote. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012, ybruti

          He thinks it's a very bad piece of legislation, but he felt the alternative would have hurt poor and middle class people too badly to be acceptable. I can understand voting on principle, but I also understand keeping the people in mind. And Sanders has no reason to cave in to party pressure. He's not a Democrat.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:23:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to gloat (6+ / 0-)

    instead, I am afraid.

  •  the common factor is RW radio - that's it - and (7+ / 0-)

    limbaugh and hannity and the other blowhards are their gods, and they launder material supplied by others- the heritage foundation is at the top.

    they live in an alternate reality that wouldn't exist if the left would recognize and acknowledge the problem instead of ignoring it.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 11:26:02 PM PST

    •  The alternate reality is a product of the (5+ / 0-)

      superficial optics of the instinct-driven. They see, but they do not understand what they see.
      I suspect that for some it's a matter of having a tactile deficit. The sense of touch is not responsive to hard reality. So, there's no material validation of perception. What things look like is all they have to go by. They speak of "feeling," but they are referring to an internal sensation responding to their hormones -- either pleasure or pain, agitation or indolence. Were it not for their gift for gab enabling them to parrot the speech they see or hear, they'd have to be classified as insensitive and insensate. They are "out of touch" and they "do not connect." It's a tactile deficit.
      On some level they must recognize themselves as disabled and that may well account for the jealousy they manifest towards the contemporary recipients of "specialized education" and care.
      "Why should they get what I didn't have" is a common plaint.

      Our mistake is in thinking deprivation makes for generous people. People do unto others as was done to them. That's how abuse is transmitted. What we've got is legislative bodies full of abused and abusive people.

      We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:02:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your description reminds me of the few (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        fundamentalist Christian households I've visited.

        I hope someday our laws will forbid frightening children into accepting a mental virus (religion) with myths of burning for all eternity. The kids can certainly choose for themselves when they reach the age of majority.

        But that would require bringing government power (Child Protective services, law enforcement) to bear and that last bit bothers me a lot.

        Reaganomics noun pl: belief that unregulated capitalism can produce unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources and we the people can increase revenue by decreasing revenue.

        by FrY10cK on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:13:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's A Reason For This, Why It Reminds You (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dirtandiron, bontemps2012

          Of those abusive households. People bring their individual experiences of familial abuse at the macro level and then project and act them out as group, psycho-social dynamics at the macro level.

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:37:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, if children are a burden (which they are) (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slothlax, a2nite, bontemps2012

          and there is no communal help, then it makes sense for parents to exact some gratification for themselves in the form of coerced psychological subservience.
          In more primitive societies, parents could count on the labor of their off-spring to compensate them for their investment of labor and time in their rearing and development. Of course, when average life expectancy was 35, the compensatory work period was fairly short. Parents died before they were much of a burden.
          Why is it that "not being a burden" is such a common concern? Is it because we are not in the habit of recognizing that our own rearing has created an obligation which needs to be repaid, either to the next generation or the last?

          Yes, children are entitled to be nurtured. Nevertheless, that entitlement or those rights come with an obligation to give back. Of course, if a person doesn't have a sense of time as a linear progression, giving back is probably impossible to understand, especially if there is no memory of having got.

          We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

          by hannah on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:43:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The Birchers do not want people (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, hannah, a2nite

        to "react emotionally" to the Sandy Hook school slaughter.

        Actually, they do not want people to acquire and analyze information from the real world, period.

        Paranoid fantasies and slogans should suffice.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:34:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's Repeating The Cycle Of Abuse (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012, Dirtandiron, hannah, a2nite

        That was experienced individually, on a micro level, and projecting it into the group psychosocial dyanamic at the macro level.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:35:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "abused and abusive people" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hannah, bontemps2012

        Exactly.  Look at Karl Rove and Grover Norquist's family upbringing as an example

      •  i think it has to do with a lack of sex education (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        i think you're describing a subset but i'm convinced it has to do with getting too much sex energy into the side of the brain for logic and numbers where it is satisfied in terms of certitude  (quick easy answers, absolutes)  and greed ( more, bigger, faster).

        sex energy is supposed to go to the right emotional, creative, orgasmic side but it gets diverted to the left side because we learn sex with the wrong hand- the sword and hammer hand, which is the hand connected to the left side of the brain. this has been a default problem since population growth required us to delay the age of reproduction. learning sex with that hand burns in long lasting connections that will steal sex energy from the right side and divert it through the left.

        our societies have evolved to exploit and cultivate this problem in a self perpetuating cycle.

        i think the way it relates to the political spectrum is the greed part partly but especially the need irrational need for certainty. the stronger that is the more easily uncertainty becomes fear. since nothing is certain the stress and fear are always there and the fix is certainty provided by our authoritarian and religious leaders and structures and order and conformity in general- value structures that helps us reduce nature, the uncertain, the complicated into absolutes and quick easy answers- yes no black white good evil order disorder.

        those establishment value structures help make the connections that reward the dependence on certainty. the lies and fantasy and oversimplifications may not be logical but the creative side can be enlisted to rationalize them. and when the connection is made to the creative side some of the trapped sex energy is able to escape to the orgasmic side. that's the grin on newt gingrich and george bush and paul ryan and rush limbaugs faces when they say 2 + 2 = 5.

        our power structures have evolved to exploit this and at some level maybe by design but it's mostly probably self perpetuating- sexual repression makes it impossible to teach using the other hand. our societies are marketplaces for the certainty uncertainty fear dynamic and the best quick easy answers compete around the truth. and maybe a society that that taught left handed masturbation might become too passive and be overwhelmed by the warrior societies.

        physiologically, women are naturally closer to the left handed spectrum because the the right hand is not as default and the motion may be more varied/complicated.

        imagine in a brain where use of the emotional creative right brain is very limited and too much sex energy accumulates and is trapped in the left. triggers needed to release it to the pleasure centers may become even more specific/learned/preferred in individuals. one way to trigger may be to create emotion to release it- such as with violence.

        the koran says man can only have sex with his wife and that which the right hand possesses. that's traditionally interpreted as his wives and captives. so what about the poor?

        there are a lot of 'environmental' and genetic factors involved but the idea that it wouldn't make a difference would be the crazy one.

        here's a shorter explanation: http://youtu.be/...

        This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

        by certainot on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:08:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Birch John Society (4+ / 0-)

    A group dedicated to wood paneled bathrooms!

    The Democrats create jobs. The Republicans create recessions.

    by Tuba Les on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:39:30 AM PST

  •  Divide and conquer, unite and rule. (5+ / 0-)

    I wonder at what point more liberal Republicans will get fed up and join our party?  There aren't many left in the House, but we should be making common cause with the ones there are - because there's plenty of them in the electorate.

    There are districts where no Democrat could ever be elected.  If we could make the difference between an extremist and a moderate, wouldn't we rather see somebody elected we could work with?  Somebody who's open to compromise?  Just a thought.

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:17:51 AM PST

    •  We should run in every district (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sidnora, bontemps2012

      In the reddest we should have candidates who pledge only to vote D for Speaker.  They can vote straight conservative on every bill for all I care, as long as the Democrats can set the agenda.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:32:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They already did. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      Not only are there no "liberal" Republicans left in either house of Congress (the last one was Lincoln Chafee), there are barely any moderates left; there's Susan Collins, all by herself in the Senate, and even in the NE, most Republican House members are pretty extreme.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:39:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sidnora

        was about liberal and moderate Republicans in the electorate.  They still exist, plenty of them, at least in blue states.  Who do they vote for, when a crazy Tea Party candidate runs against a moderate Republican like President Obama?

        Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

        by Boundegar on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:11:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry for the misunderstanding. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012

          I guess they must sometimes vote for Dems, sometimes stay home, sometimes hold their noses and vote for whatever Republican is on the ballot. I bet that a lot of them voted for Romney by telling themselves that he was only acting "that way" because he had to, to get conservatives to vote for him.

          I'm not so sure that blue state Republicans are more moderate than others, anyway. I live in a very blue place, and the nearest Republican communities tend to be pretty immoderate - racist, anti-union and anti-abortion. They're classic Reagan Dems, 30 years later. None of your genteel Yankee WASP-type business-community leaders around here.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:32:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  We vote for ... (0+ / 0-)

          The best candidate.  I considered myself a pretty liberal Republican. McCain and the Ice Queen were too crazy right for me, so I voted for Obama in 2008.  Rinse, repeat for 2012. No way Romney/Ryan would get my vote either.  And, moderate/liberal R's don't exist exclusively in blue states. I'm in Texas, along with most of my moderate/liberal R family ... And we all voted for Obama.

          For Senate, I voted in the R primary in Texas so I could vote against Cruz. I also looked up the Tea Bagger recommended candidates, and voted against every one of them in the primary.

          I find my dad the most interesting case. He is the most conservative of us all. He voted McCain in the 08 primary. Once McCain chose Palin, my dad was firmly in the Obama camp.  Guess it proves that, for a lot of sane Republicans, they're tired of the bat-shit crazy group of clowns the GOP keeps trotting out.

          I was a member of Republicans for Obama on Facebook. There were a lot of us. That's the best place for a R view of the current state of the party.  I realized this last election that I don't belong there any longer.  I am firmly in the D camp.

          •  Thanks! (0+ / 0-)

            That's kind of what I was wondering.  I wonder if your (former) party will ever swing back to the center.

            Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

            by Boundegar on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 01:54:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Maybe they will... (0+ / 0-)

              But we will have to root out the crazies first. The only way We can accomplish that is to completely marginalize them.  I have this grand idea that Dems can help - pledge to support moderate R's in primaries to help them fend off the baggers. I'll continue to work toward that goal for 2014, though I'm not exactly sure how to do it. Especially in Texas... It seems like they're all bat-shit crazy here.

  •  Flouride in water...huh (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    I prefer to brush my teeth with flouride,  not drink it. That makes me bircher? not to be confused with birther

    I guess not wanting to drink  Neurotoxins now puts you in the category of "crazy". Weird...

    You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

    by redhaze on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:37:04 AM PST

    •  Do yourself a favor (10+ / 0-)

      and take a pharmacology class. You might benefit from learning about the concept of dosage.

      Research science: a series of failures sporadically punctuated by success

      by dpryan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:00:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Believe the science: use fluoride toothpaste (8+ / 0-)

      then you have more of the chemical in your system than you will ever get from drinking treated drinking water.

      The levels are different by two orders of magnitude. Fluoride also mixes instantly with your saliva.

      The level in drinking water is miniscule.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:39:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  One you drink, one you spit out (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        There is also the issue of being forced to use one and not the other.

        Even if you suppose that there is nothing wrong with consuming and digesting minimal amounts of a known neurotoxin over long periods of time (which for some segment of the population will not end well, see the literature on xray's applied over a broad enough segment of the population as one example), there is also the issue of choice. People should be allowed to choose what they put in their body to the greatest extent possible, end of the day.

        I think its fair to disagree, but a Bircher I am not

        You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

        by redhaze on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:01:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Where's the literature on flouride? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          redhaze, bontemps2012

          Its been around long enough now, where are the negative consequences?

          There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

          by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:34:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Surpisingly little research (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax, bontemps2012

            exists in terms of the effects of fluoride on neurological function over long periods of time (which would likely be the primary concern, given that fluoride is an established neurotoxin at higher doses).

            Some animal research does exist to show that there may be cause for concern in terms of low dose fluoride having neurotoxic effects. See here, for example:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...

            Some studies on the effects of fluoridated public water also show the benefits of fluoridated water on reduction in cavities across the population, which I don't believe is likely to be disputed by either side.

            You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

            by redhaze on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:40:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Lead, we know about. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              redhaze

              Fluoride, we know about.

              Both have been tracked in 30 years studies.

              Lead is a poison at very, very low levels. Fluoride is not. Towns with naturally high fluoride levels have no elevated neuro problems whatsoever.

              Sometimes a simple chemical is simply good for you.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:15:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Link please if you don't mind (0+ / 0-)

                Not unsourced statements.

                Almost every piece of research out there  that I have reviewed on the safety and efficacy of flouridated water starts with a statement that says something along the lines of, "The body of evidence available on the efficacy and safety of water fluoridation is limited and of relatively low quality". (not an actual quote, just the gist of what the research tends to report).

                Moreover, the research that does exist tends to focus on two primary issues: 1. The effects on cavity formation and general dental health, which is positive and 2. The effects of flouridation on cancer formation (of which there is no link). The research on neurological issues is virtually non-existant other than a couple studies (one of which I posted above).

                See the conclusions drawn here (a research summary of all literature at the time of its writing) that notes the lack of quality research into the overall health consequences of low level flouride intake:

                http://www.york.ac.uk/...

                Basically, you're not right.

                Two other quick points:

                1. Even if the research was conclusive that there were no ill health effects from low level fluoride intake, it is certainly arguable that it is a violation of individual rights to force people to drink a chemical, irrespective of their want or desire to do so. And this goes for anyone who is poor, doesn't want to drink fluoride, but can't afford purified water (most of which, admittedly, has fluoride in it anyway

                and

                2. Not wanting to drink fluoride does not make you equivalent or equal to some Birch society loon! Christ sake mate, you are just way off base on that. If you were to just give me that point, I would happily agree to disagree on all the others. Cheers!

                You know we live in strange times when hearing something as simple as the truth almost seems shocking.

                by redhaze on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:23:46 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for the excellent diary. Tipped & Rec'd (8+ / 0-)

    What's the adage about not being able to change things until you first acknowledge what is?  Well, that goes double for the Birchers. For awhile after Goldwater got smacked down, the movement died down.  But it never went away, just bided time, bubbling under the surface, only flaring up occasionally to flame out again.

    What scares me is how many of them today espouse their nihilistic nonsense without any fear of being called out as extremists.  Even Orrin Hatch cowers before the scary threat of a Far Right primary challenge--Orrin Hatch, for god's sake.

    What frustrates me is how many constituents have no clue, none whatsoever, as to what their representatives in Congress vote for, and vote against. Yes, a chunk of blame for this can be laid at the feet of vainglorious Faux Noise.  But seemingly, there's a huge section of the population that, given the choice, would rather lie on the dividing  line of the highway at noon than have to think, never mind seek out factual information in order to have an informed opinion.

    Leading up to the election, when subjects would come up and I would point out pesky little things like facts found in the congressional record, I would end by pleading, "Don't believe me. Don't take my word for it. And don't believe Billo, either. He's being paid millions to say___. Look it up for yourself."

    Sorry, stepping down off the soapbox now.  Long way round of saying you're right to point them out and label them.  Because when people actually find out the facts, more of them are on our side.

    "In politics stupidity is not a handicap." Napoleon Bonaparte

    by citylights on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:48:37 AM PST

    •  how much of it is race? (10+ / 0-)

      When I see these people talk their talk, it makes them seem like they have met the world in the process of being born these last 50 years (the one where people judge and are judged on content of character and not what they look like) and they just do NOT want to live in that world. The lion's share of their antipathy seems like it's racial... hence the president's election and now re-election has caused them to double & triple down on their particular brand of lunacy. They despise deviation of all kinds from white straight maleness (gays & women are high on their abuse list), but it really does sound like the idea of empowered African-descended folks is the thing that just makes them apoplectic and enraged like no other. I don't call them conservatives; I call them what they are: Authoritarians.

      I've been thinking that the last 160+ years of American history represent a Civil Cold War between people that wished the South had won and those that are comfortable with the result as it happened. This goes a long way towards the proliferation of guns in the US, and why so many of those guns are in white suburban neighborhoods where, last I checked anyway, there are no invading hordes of pillaging brown people appearing on the distant horizon. Yet the people that live in those communities feel the need to stockpile weapons like Hannibal himself is just outside the city limits at all times with battalions of his savages in tow ready to rape the women and torch the town.

      These Bircher/Teabagger types just seem like the vocal vanguard of that side right now -- the one that seems hellbent on refighting the Civil War in their minds -- but they've existed since 1865 and I don't see how you curtail the pernicious, destructive influence they wield unless you move them all to Texas and let them secede. Maybe we can work out a trade and California can get Austin and we can let them have Orange County.

      "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

      by emperor nobody on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:24:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Authoritarians" -- yes, indeed. (8+ / 0-)

        That applies equally for Business and Bircher Republicans.

        You see that with Romney and his "47%" speech. All through the campaign he echos the themes of Thatcherism in England, including demonizing unions and blaming schools as training camps for Leftist perversity.

        Racist hatred seems to have been the key to Romney getting the large majority of White votes. It certainly wasn't the Obama/Eisenhower policy system that had come out of the White House.

        For a brighter side to matters, what about 2016 when the Democrats will likely not be running a Black guy ??? The racist propaganda vaporizes and what do they have to go on?

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:50:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012, emperor nobody

          Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Business Republicans are much better. They just couch their language in a little bit more polite terms so soccermom types won't be embarrassed to tell the neighbors they vote for them. But, the economic policies are pretty much the same between the two. i.e., union busting, reducing unemployment insurance, no safety regulations in the workplace, and so on.

          Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

          by Dirtandiron on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:08:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Its all about economics (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bontemps2012, emperor nobody

            That's the real division between the two parties.  Business Republicans just use the social stuff as a smoke screen to get working class voters to elect people who work against their economic interests.

            There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

            by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:39:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Research "Thatcherism." (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            emperor nobody

            That's what they are modelling these days.

            Hatred of unions is a calling card. If they can sink somebody's battleship, then down it goes.

            (Yes, the "General Belgrano" was a cruiser. D'oh.)

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:19:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  It expresses racially (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012, emperor nobody

        in the US because of our racial history, but authoritarianism is found in about 25% of the population, everywhere. In racially homogeneous places it expresses through religion, or tribally. But it always finds a way to poke up its ugly head, unless the other 75% take it seriously and are on their guard against it.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:45:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent diary. This should be frontpaged (6+ / 0-)

    IMHO.

    Thank you!

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:58:43 AM PST

  •  Fluoridation is NOT a Bircher issue (4+ / 0-)

    Fluoridation Opposition is Scientific, Respectable & Growing

    More than 4,293 professionals (including 343 dentists and 538 MD’s) urge that fluoridation be stopped citing scientific evidence that ingesting fluoride is ineffective at reducing tooth decay and has serious health risks. See statement: http://www.fluoridealert.org/...

    In 2006, a National Research Council expert panel published a fluoride report which revealed that fluoride, even at low doses added to water supplies, can be especially harmful to the thyroid gland, kidney patients, babies, seniors and people who drink high amounts of water.  They also revealed critical fluoride safety studies have never been done and studies linking fluoride to cancer and lower IQ are plausible.  

    Thirty-four human studies now link fluoride to lowered IQ, some at levels considered safe in the US. See: http://www.fluoridealert.org/...

    After 67 years of water fluoridation, the Centers for Disease Control reports that up to 60% of 12-15 year-olds are affected with fluoride overdose symptoms – dental fluorosis, white spotted, yellow, brown and/or pitted teeth. Yet, the CDC says More young kids face cavity crisis in US

    Tooth decay crises are occurring in all fluoridated cities, states and countries because Americans can’t afford dental care. New dental professionals are being created. New dental schools opened and others are planned, according to the American Dental Association.

    New Hampshire passed first ever state-wide fluoride warning law  that 6-month-olds should not be routinely fed infant formula mixed with fluoridated water to avoid dental fluorosis.

    Emergency rooms are flooded with people in dental pain, costing taxpayers millions of dollars, because 80% of dentists refuse Medicaid patients, 130 million Americans don’t have dental insurance. Many of those that do have insurance can’t afford dentistry’s high out-of-pocket costs. No American is or ever was fluoride-deficient. Too many are dentist-deficient.

    The CDC reports that 225 less communities adjusted for fluoride between 2006 and 2008. About 100 US and Canadian communities rejected fluoridation since 2008; many in 2012.

    This election day, fluoridation was defeated 60% to 40% in a Wichita, Kansas.

    Recently, 33,000 Portland, Oregon petition-signers halted the ill-advised fluoridation mandate by the Portland City Commission.

    Most of Western Europe and major world cities do not fluoridate the water.  Yet tooth decay rates are similar.

    •  Fluoridation as a "mass medicine" communist (16+ / 0-)

      plot to poison Americans is decidedly a historical Bircher issue, and varients of this conspiracy theory are are to be found among them yet today.  Usually, it's no longer a communist plot, but an Islamic one.

      All your Supremes are belong to us. For Great Justices!

      by thenekkidtruth on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:58:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Birchers and Fluoridation (0+ / 0-)

        This is more complicated than space here permits for rational discussion.

        Ultimately, the JBS opposed fluoridation as "mass medication" which they thought was just another infringement upon individual freedom.

        In many schools, a nurse cannot give a student an aspirin without parental permission -- but, somehow, it is entirely ok for cities or counties to require fluoridation of water and thus force people to ingest fluoridated water from their main water source.

        It is also true, however, that the JBS interpreted this "mass medication" as just another example of how they thought "Communists" operate --- i.e. more and more government control of decisions which should be made by individuals and their families instead of by government.

    •  Interesting. I agree that dental care (4+ / 0-)

      Is sorely lacking in this county and dental care is incredibly expensive even with insurance.

      As for fluoridation, I know nothing about the issue.  As for Birchers, I know that virtually everything that comes out of their mouths is inherently untrustworthy.

      A standing army is like a standing member. It's an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure. Elbridge Gerry - Constitutional Convention (1787)

      by No Exit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:34:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  OK, let's see (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      That's 538 doctors out of 690,000, and 343 dentists out of 160,000. So, about 0.21% of dentists, and 0.08% of doctors.
      I think there's a higher percentage of PhD scientists who deny global warming.

      And since when did public referenda become the gold standard for scientific fact?

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:00:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  There should be a 4th Party (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron, my pet rock, slothlax

    If it were not for Nader's "ego as big as the great outdoors" we would never have had Bush. If the Green Party would simply back a sound dozen or so House seats, I think they could get them. Gradually they would be a bargaining chip, editing every bill that passed. I don't agree with all their positions, but in general the Greens I know are less likely to settle for insipid regulations or heavy compromise.

    Think about what would have happened if the money sent to Nader had gone to a small number of targetted house seats, and volunteers had walked their way to a Green caucus.

    •  More democrats voted for Bush than for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      No Exit

      Nader. Bush beat Gore in an election. You can claim Gore lost it through a bad campaign, or SCOTUS gave it to Bush, or whatever, but the fact is that more Democrats voted for Bush than for Nader. In other words, if you want to blame Bush on "bad democrats", blame the Bush-voting democrats, because they're the ones who actually gave us Bush by your standard.

      This isn't a difficult thing to understand, yet somehow it seems to elude so many, so often. Curious.

      •  In fact, that's not true. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012, ancblu

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:04:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not true at all (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012, ybruti

        I don't know where you got your information, but I can assure you of two facts:

        There is a huge SC complex in Palm Beach County (Century VIllage) where an "activist" showed the residents how to vote the "butterfly ballot" and his sample had them vote for Buchanon rather than Gore. Both Buchanan and the "activist" admitted that it was a hundreds of votes error! I had that ballot on my kitchen table for a month. If I could show it to you, you'd understand!

        And there was an email sent out to military voters after the polls closed in Florida asking them to vote (despite the fact that the deadline had past) knowing full well that military ballots were not time or date stamped. Gore could have challenged that, primarily because Liebermann objected! The result was far higher than the margin of victory in Florida recount notwistanding.

        Gore won Florida!

    •  LOL! HERE WE GO AGAIN... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue71340, No Exit

      Blaming Nader and his so called ego problem for Gore's loss-- due to one of the worst campaigns run in recent history. For starters, Gore was so unpopular he couldn't even win his home state, Tennessee. What does that tell you? Second, Gore stupidly kicked Clinton to the curb and due to HIS ego problem, thought he could win without his help. This is about as stupid as it gets.

      Your whole post is one BIG contradiction; first you criticize Nader (obviously left of center) and then you mention the Green Party (obviously left of center) and suggest they attempt to win some House seats-- to get some leverage over legislation.

      In your knee-jerk reaction to Nader, you conveniently overlook the fact one of the main reasons Nader ran is because the left/progressive agenda is ignored by the democratic party.

      The notion the Green Party could easily win a dozen or so House seats is a joke. The minute they attempted to do so, they would be attacked/derided by the status-quo supporting democratic party-- who by the way attempted to block Nader from getting on the ballot in states like Illinois (Nader had all the signatures needed). Nader was forced to sue them-- and successfully got on the ballot.

      "A civilization which does not provide young people with a way to earn a living is pretty poor". Eleanor Roosevelt

      by Superpole on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:50:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Knew Nader personally (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Even his own staff couldn't stand him in a number of ways.

        You simply have to be realistic. His ego was a very big problem.

        In a perfect world I'd probably be a "green" rather than a traditional "Democrat."

        But the end result is what counts. And sadly it's SCOTUS that counts these days.

        •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

          Steve Jobs had an "ego problem" as well, but is lauded by many as a genius-- right up there with Thomas Edison.

          At the end of the day, Nader's activism in regard to stupid, greedy corporations, first by getting seat belts in cars, then airbags, has literally saved 1,000's of lives. I could only dream of my activism being as successful.

          The SCOTUS is nowhere near as large a problem as congress is-- Congress spends money like a drunken sailor when we have a GOP President, but suddenly decides austerity is crucial when we have a democratic President.

          "A civilization which does not provide young people with a way to earn a living is pretty poor". Eleanor Roosevelt

          by Superpole on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 06:07:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  SCOTUS is for life (0+ / 0-)

            And I am talking about effectively working with a team, not a personal problem. Nader's own staff wouldn't sit near him at lunch!

            He single-handedly gave us Bush for 8 years. What did he accomplish? What would the Green Party have accomplished if it had put the money into a dozen House seats?

    •  I think its a much harder hill to climb than that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      We have an active Green Party in my area, they run candidates in local elections, but as of yet they have never even been a threat to win any of them, let alone actually winning anything.  The right race, the right candidate, and they might get a toehold on the city council.  Winning a House race?  Not anytime soon.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:45:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If the rules of the game did not impose... (5+ / 0-)

    ...a two party system, there would probably be three or more parties.  But the Birchers would still be formidable.  They are not that smart or very educated, but they are very manipulatable.

    My concern is that a leader will emerge (funded by the Koch brothers) that may turn this pack into a more formidable group.  

    If they manage to destroy the economy (as they seem bent to do unlike the Business Republicans) the chaos that will ensue may create the condition for such a process.

    Very good diary. Laissez les bon temps rouler!

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:39:54 AM PST

    •  A Bircher 3rd party would resemble these (5+ / 0-)

      La Pen's French Front National
      Geert Wilders Freedom Party
      Jörg Haider Austrian Freedom party (FPO)

      Similar positions to US Birchers, though much more accepting of national welfare states - probably because state welfare is not viewed through the same racial lens as it is in the US (yet)

      Note in some cases business oriented traditional conservative parties have accepted the far right in coalitions

      •  This (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012
        more accepting of national welfare states - probably because state welfare is not viewed through the same racial lens as it is in the US (yet)
        is exactly right. Sociological studies have shown that the more homogeneous any (developed) country's population is, the better their social safety net. Those European-nationalist parties are going to change that.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's even worse (7+ / 0-)

    Starched-shirt Koch-daddy Birchers from the 60's through the 80's couldn't care less about mega-corporate domination, but today's current crop is in synchronization with the "Business GOP" in this regard.

    So today's Bircher party has all the conspiracy theories (fluorine in our water supply has been updated), the libertarian tendencies ("state's rights", at least when it's convenient), and the focus on demon communism has been seamlessly replaced by a general hatred of Islam.  But until recently, concepts like "corporate personhood" hasn't been on their radar.

    As Ayn Rand said critically in a 1964 Playboy interview,

    I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for capitalism but merely against communism ... I gather they believe that the disastrous state of today's world is caused by a communist conspiracy. This is childishly naive and superficial. No country can be destroyed by a mere conspiracy, it can be destroyed only by ideas.
    The status quo "business" GOP was successful in quickly co-opting the TP Birchers early on in their original electoral success days, so today's Birchers now fully endorse the corporate dominance model.  So what we've got today is all the same radicalism, the factsless conspiracies, the self-righteous bible thumping, and the same old hate speech - only now, a power shift from a government of the people to something more akin to Mussolini's fascism is very much on the TP agenda.  The worst of both worlds.

    Just a historical reminder - in Il Duche's Italy, you didn't vote for an individual, or even a party.  You voted for the corporation you thought could best represent you.

    All your Supremes are belong to us. For Great Justices!

    by thenekkidtruth on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:47:30 AM PST

    •  This is what I feel is happening and its why I (4+ / 0-)

      have worked so hard to push back as a volunteer.  If all of us work as well as discuss we can make a difference.

    •  The parties (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012, blue71340, slothlax

      ARE corporations.

      •  The Birchers are owned by a family (0+ / 0-)

        and its corporations and their friends and their corporations.

        Otherwise, the Bircher congressmen are generally not wealthy. They serve as hired shills.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:09:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Couple things to toss in with that.... (7+ / 0-)

      First, the right wing billionaires operate at a different level and have different political goals from the Business group in the general economy.

      The status quo "business" GOP was successful in quickly co-opting the TP Birchers early on in their original electoral success days, so today's Birchers now fully endorse the corporate dominance model.
      It was the billionaires who co-opted the populist Tea Party movement. They have staff and money ready and available to go after opportunities within the Republican Party. They hit the Tea Party like a hawk striking a rabbit.

      Second, you're spot-on with the Mussolini connection. Right wingers in Italy have worked over decades to rehabilitate Il Duce's image. It's a Ministry of Truth history re-write operation. There's an annual calendar, of course, and decorations for coffee shops and many books.

      If they could have exactly what they want, these Bircher Republicans would support him as their Perfect Man:

      Duce! Duce! Duce!

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:14:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Birchers and Fascism (0+ / 0-)

        You are presenting a malicious false libel by your comments linking Birchers with Mussolini or fascism.

        Here is the reality:

        1.  Birchers think that traditional understandings of a political spectrum are entirely mistaken.  They believe that communism, fascism, and nazism ALL belong on the EXTREME LEFT as forms of "collectivism".

        2.  They believe that all persons (regardless of race, creed, religion, or status in life) have God-given unalienable rights and they despise ALL forms of what they consider government coercion -- no matter how noble the motivations of the actors might be.

        3.  No JBS member admires or supports fascists like Mussolini nor any other totalitarian movement figure.  Birchers think that the extreme right on a political spectrum reflects anarchy whereas Constitutional Conservatives belong in the CENTER of any political spectrum.

        4.  Since ALL collectivists believe in maximizing government intervention into people's lives (liberals, socialists, communists, fascists, nazis) -- the Birch Society thinks that they ALL belong on the LEFT side of the political spectrum and Birchers think of ALL collectivists as mortal enemies of what the JBS believes.

        •  If you think that fascism and nazism (0+ / 0-)

          belong on the EXTREME LEFT, the Left, or the Center then you're trying to rewrite history.

          Corporatism as much as defines the Right.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 10:41:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Corporatism? (0+ / 0-)

            I have no clue how you define that.  My point is that official JBS ideology has ALWAYS been hostile toward large financial and corporate entities in our country.

            YOU may not wish to consider any alternative ideas which do not conform to what you prefer to believe, but it is not verboten to propose a different understanding of a political spectrum.  The JBS is not the only organization or entity which has suggested we re-construct a political spectrum to   consider the relationship of an individual to government.  Obviously, ALL forms of "collectivism" propose that government has a major role to play in the lives of people.  One can argue (without being demonized) that liberalism, socialism, communism, nazism and fascism are related in the sense that they all favor government intervention (aka coercion)  whereas libertarians argue for MINIMUM government coercion or intervention in our lives.

            •  Such as Koch Industries. (0+ / 0-)

              You've got yourself believing something.

              -- www.kochind.com/

              JBS rebranding has taken the direction of trying to look like Paulist Libertarians. But that's nothing but cover.

              What happens with all parts of the Koch empire is purest anti-democracy corporatism.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 11:02:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reply to Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

                You are making broad generalizations which make very little sense.  If, as you suggest, the JBS believes in "corporatism", then kindly explain with specific details why it is that since its inception the JBS has been HOSTILE toward large corporate interests -- particularly financial institutions.

                Also, specify what organizations and lobbying groups and publications you think represent "corporatism" or corporate interests in the U.S.  Then, let's compare your list to the JBS position on each organization or publication you list.

                If, as you suggest, the Birch Society is linked to "corporatism" -- then please explain as precisely as you can how you fit your theory into the FACT that the Birch Society has published or recommended books and articles which are extremely hostile toward many of the most prominent figures within our corporate world.  

                For example:  

                (1) explain the JBS hostility toward Nelson and David Rockefeller and all Chase Manhattan Bank interests;

                (2) explain why the JBS associates itself with a narrative about our 20th century history which presents our largest financial and corporate entities in extremely derogatory terms

                (3) Explain why the JBS recommends books like Gary Allen's "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" and Cleon Skousen's, "The Naked Capitalist" --- both of which eviscerate the most prominent representatives of the capitalist elite within our country and explain why both books attribute evil, sinister motives to those individuals

    •  True, But As We Can See, That Alignment Is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012, linkage, thenekkidtruth

      Inherently unstable. The center cannot hold. The monster has it's head and must be sated.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:28:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's correct - definitely a fascist party (5+ / 0-)

      That label is not just inflammatory rhetoric.  It's a factual, historically-accurate description of the program they are proposing.

      "Evil resides in the very gaze which perceives Evil all around." -- GWF Hegel

      by Fatherflot on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:35:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Factual? Historically Accurate? (0+ / 0-)

        No you are gravely mistaken.  The program proposed by the JBS is precisely opposite to what fascist parties or movements propose.

        The JBS wants to dramatically REDUCE both the size and scope of government.  It wants individual Americans to have the greatest possible freedom to make their own decisions and choices in life.  For example:  they support home-schooling, they support minimum taxation,  they support a non-interventionist (i.e. generally isolationist) foreign policy, they believe that our Iraq war was illegal and they think Bush and Cheney should have been impeached;  they believe that the policies adopted by Bush in the name of "security" were un-Constitutional and should be grounds for impeachment.  The JBS also believes that our federal income tax is un-Constitutional.

        Now you tell me, Fatherflot, what "fascist" party would support the positions I just listed?  

        ANSWER:   NONE WHATSOEVER because fascist parties, by definition, DO NOT recognize ANY limitations upon the power or authority or scope of government.  And they certainly do NOT recognize the ability of an electorate to override the decisions of political leaders (whether elected or appointed.  Furthermore, unlike actual fascist parties, the Birch Society has always been profoundly HOSTILE toward large economic and financial institutions -- including Wall Street, mega-corporations, etc.

    •  Birchers (0+ / 0-)

      Keep in mind the historical record:  

      Birchers vehemently opposed Ayn Rand, Mussolini, fascists, nazis and most of the large corporate elite in our country.

      For example:  the JBS believes that Bolsheviks were financed by wealthy individuals--including large American financial interests.  

      They also believe that our foreign policies serve the interests of our corporate elite (expressed through organizations like Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission).

      They describe people like Nelson and David Rockefeller as "traitors" to our country.

      I suggest that everyone who believes the absurdities posted by "thenekkidtruth"  and others in this forum, read two JBS-recommended publications:

      1. Gary Allen's 1972 book, "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"

      2.  W. Cleon Skousen's, "The Naked Capitalist"

      ONLY AFTER reading both of these classic right-wing conspiracy books can you understand the profound hostility which the JBS has toward our corporate class.

  •  I beg to differ (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, blue71340

    we DONT have 3 major political parties

    we have ONE major party and one party that is dangerously divided and can't come together and its various factions are fighting for control

    the ONE party is the Democratic party and the divided party is the  republicans, who are more like a regional party then a MAJOR one.

    "You've got to be an optimist to be a Democrat, and a humorist to stay one" - Will Rogers

    by KnotIookin on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:10:25 AM PST

    •  we have 1 party... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      the corporate money party with outliers on both sides.  

      if dems were real dems not 1980's  self-confessed republicans like the pres...then we'd have a chance at a second functional party.

      you know, one that doesn't condone war, rendition, drone strikes on americans, a tax structure rigged for the wealthy, or sees OWS as a good thing requiring new real rules for wall street....   etc, etc,  

       I will not cheerlead for a "dem" pres whose positions are mostly right of Nixon and substantially overlap W's.

      did you do what you said you'd do?

      by blue71340 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:38:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Democrats were "real Dems" with Carter. (0+ / 0-)

        Human Rights went top of the list.

        Management of the federal government was rationalized.

        But Carter, himself, failed to build relationships with his own party on Cap Hill.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:25:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You Forgot Pro Terminal WAR (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, linkage
    The Birchers are anti-government, anti-immigration, anti-compromise, and opposed to taxes in all forms and appearances.
    This faction is not just against things, they are also PRO terminal war, PRO corporate welfare for already wealthy corporations/people-- specifically, white men.

    Their demand to discuss/cut spending is a total farce-- since they don't want to consider cutting our bloated defense budget. More than a few "democrats" are in the same boat; your attempt to neatly "define" these factions overlooks this, but you're not kidding anyone.

    "A civilization which does not provide young people with a way to earn a living is pretty poor". Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Superpole on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:36:05 AM PST

    •  Since the pro-war, pro-military commitments (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sunny skies, slothlax, Superpole

      span the Democrats and both clasts of the Republicans, there's not much there for differentiation.

      This diary differentiates the three parties. Where they are similar, the subject matter is off topic.

      Anti-military politicians are rare as hen's teeth.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:18:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  But they lack definition....... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    -- Regular Democrats (188 members)

    -- Business Republicans (85 Members)

    -- Birch Society Republicans (151 Members)

    Regular Democrats would be Sanders, Harkin, Grayson, Warren, and that ilk.

    Business Republicans would be sane Republicans and Wall Street Democrats.   When Bill Clinton said "new kind of Democrat", it was code for corporate owned.

    Birch Society Republicans are the people who escaped from the asylum and took up refuge in Washington.  

    It is what's in the heart and policies that matter - not the color of their team jerseys.  

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:38:36 AM PST

  •  John Jay was a progressive Democrat! You ever... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    ...hear of a Red Jay?? No way!  

    And the alleged quote from John Jay is bogus.
    Of course! It's always a Blue Jay!

    NEW PALINDROMIC METAPHOR MEANING TO MAKE A PREDICTION THAT IS ASTOUNDINGLY OFF TARGET: "Pull a Gallup!" As in: "The weatherman said yesterday would be sunny and mild, but we got a foot of snow! Boy, did he pull a Gallup!"

    by Obama Amabo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:38:38 AM PST

  •  Ahem. Birch is missing a "t" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1

    Just sayin

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:39:33 AM PST

  •  I disagree. We have one party with two (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, blue71340, Greyhound

    "fronts", each of which is divided into various factions.

    I suppose I could go along with your taxonomy for the Republican front.

    The Democratic front only appears unified because the conservatives in it are so much more numerous than the liberals.

    •  Democratic Party conservatives (0+ / 0-)

      know they need the votes of Hispanics, Blacks, and Asians to win anything.

      Which changes everything.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:07:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not really. Hispanics, Blacks, and Asians aren't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel

        uniformly liberal (cf former teabilly congressman West from Florida), and the Democratic Party's conservatives are essentially neoliberals anyway, not social conservatives.

        Democrats also play up the 'fear of the other' just like Republicans do ("What, are you gonna vote R?"), which goes a long way toward neutralizing any animosity against the leadership's neoliberal, austerity for the masses/prosperity for the elite agenda.

  •  It's a very good point (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Beetwasher, bontemps2012, Smoh, Garrett

    Setting aside the details of the deal that was worked out, an outside observer couldn't help but note that the president effectively cleaved in half the House GOP. If he can do it again, or repeatedly, the next two years might be very productive. The big question is whether this is a one-time deal. Can Boehner pull his caucus back into lockstep unanimity? Does he even want to? How can we show him that working with the opposition will lead to greater rewards than working against? It'll be fascinating to watch, either way.

    "I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." - William Blake

    by Tod Westlake on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:14:24 AM PST

    •  One could imagine a vote for Speaker (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Smoh

      where the Business Republicans side with the Democrats to reelect Boehner.

      Despite that Boehner loses within his own caucus.

      We're not going to see Nancy Pelosi get Republican support, period. But there is no way the Regular Democrats would sit back and watch a Birch Society Republican take over the speakership.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:11:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Boehner has sold his soul to the Crazies (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        He refuses to let votes happen on bills, like disaster relief, that are supported by a huge majority of the House. He is a hopeless political hack, controlled by the worst House members.

        Americans can make our country better.

        by freelunch on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:51:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Research the "Hastert Rule." (0+ / 0-)

          There's more going than anything that Boehner could fix.

          Birch Society Republicans outnumber his Business Republicans by almost 2:1.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:29:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  EXCELLENT Exposition !!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Beetwasher, bontemps2012

    And downright scary, too...

  •  Bill Buckley led the purge of the Birchers a half (13+ / 0-)

    century ago precisely because he didnt want to see the Republicans reduced to a marginalized regional minority party. The big money R's welcomed them back with increasingly open arms in the 1990s and esp the early 2000s because you dont get enough votes just being the millionaires' party. Now they even camp out at his magazine.

  •  Spot On, The Deal Split The GOP WIDE OPEN! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, vcmvo2, Smoh, smileycreek

    And I firmly believe Obama expected that result.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:26:15 AM PST

    •  Working the "Cave"/"No Cave" gambit (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, Smoh, v2aggie2, smileycreek

      took the life out of them.

      But we all know from Fox News how slow them Black people are.... Couldn't possibly be that the sharpest guy in D.C. is the tall-skinny Black 'un.

      This guy:

      "Barefoot boy with cheeks of tan...." -- Kipling

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:23:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think the title has a wayward "a" in it? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    America Now Has a Three Major Political Parties
    Good diary, btw.
  •  I'm wondering whether Bloomberg or Christie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, slothlax

    might lead a formally separate, sane Party in 2016, with dog-shit Republicanism left to wither away.

  •  I would add to the list of slogans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, Beetwasher, Sychotic1

    Restore traditional American values

    Which has so many different pitches that it is the train horn of dog whistle politics.

    Form follows function -- Louis Sullivan

    by Spud1 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:50:19 AM PST

  •  Business community doesn't mind Birchers (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, linkage, LeighAnn

    The Birchers in the GOP support their extractionist agenda as much as other Republicans. Birchers are like the GOP crazy cousins, a little weird to mainline GOP'ers but still part of the family.

    The real powerbrokers in DC don't care how crazy the Birchers become, as long as they keep voting w/ the rest of the GOP bloc.

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:56:35 AM PST

    •  There is a movement by GOP "centrists" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012, Beetwasher, LeighAnn

      or as you call them Business GOP to merge with Business Dems to create a more formal "bipartisan" organization.  The problem with that is that its based strictly on a corporate policy agenda, which is usually counterproductive to the economy and totally inept when it comes to other areas of public policy.

      Corporations cannot and should not be allowed to control the legislative and political agenda in the US by coopting leaders of both parties.  They're horribly unqualified to do so and the Constitution doesn't allow it.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:01:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great analysis, thanks. (5+ / 0-)

    One variable you didn't address, so I will, is the changing demographic composition of American voters. The traditional conservative Republican demographic is aging, angry white men. They are dying out. The voters coming up are not only more liberal, they are much more racially diverse. In the last major election, we saw clearly what happens when numbers of new voters, out of this populace, are enticed to the polls.

    If the Birch Society Republicans win electoral victories, they will do it by deception, and by suppressing voter turnout.

    As many times as we need to, then, we expose and we foil. I'm all for sunshine.

    Thanks for the diary.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:58:52 AM PST

    •  Thank you. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      karmsy, Beetwasher, ybruti

      We have been following the likes of John Kline for years now. The guy people in Minnesota pair with Senator Amy Klobuchar, despite his 97.8% wack-job voting record.

      Fighting off deception needs more attention within the Democratic Party. What it would take is lots of mailers to homes and at least a year of project effort to reach through.

      Hard sell, that.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:13:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sense of perspective.. no wait, HISTORY! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    For your edification:

    http://xkcd.com/...

    No, it's not a new party.

    Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

    by lostboyjim on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:09:34 AM PST

    •  That is an amazing chart. (0+ / 0-)

      Takes downloading it, then moving it to a display system. I used Irfanview with no scaling, plus lots of scrolling around.

      The analogy to Deathly Hallows/Breaking Dawn is a hoot. We're in the poli-sci Fifth Party System, second phase.

      Important milestones:

      -- Republican Revolution in 1994

      -- Conversion of MOR Business Republican seats to far right Birch Society Republican seats from 1984-2004 and then resuming 2010.

      Lovely find. voteview.com has this and much more.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:04:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smoh, bontemps2012, slothlax

    The thing that still slays me is for CNN beating the drum for the Tea Party for a solid year saying that it was a movement of centrist Americans from both parties who just wanted common-sense policies for America.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:27:05 AM PST

    •  Who owns CNN ??? (0+ / 0-)

      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      Time Warner Corporation. "The world's second largest media and entertainment conglomerate in terms of revenue (behind The Walt Disney Company), as well as the world's largest media conglomerate."

      Further proof that we should never trust corporate media.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:50:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Reality Check (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    "America Now Has Three Major Political Parties"
    ________

    It has one major party and two outliers.
    - The Party of Corporations
    - The People's Party
    - The Anti-Government Party.

    "The skeleton in the closet is coming home to roost!" Tom Stoppard

    by Apotropoxy on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:30:45 AM PST

  •  I remember back when I was just a wee lad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    my father had a very special dislike for the john birchers .

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:44:29 AM PST

  •  Interesting and timely article on Salon (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, smileycreek

    that speaks to this:

    Welcome to the new Civil War

    If you correlate the states where both same-sex marriage and same-sex civil unions have been banned and the states with the harshest restrictions on abortion, you begin to measure the breadth of the neo-Confederacy .... The battleground states of the moment, on these issues as on many others, are strikingly familiar: Florida, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin. All four are currently in the grip of neo-Confederate forces on a state level, and all four have enacted gay-marriage bans and abortion restrictions, even though Obama won them all in both of his election campaigns.

    Do I even need to mention that none of the neo-Confederate states are in the Northeast or on the West Coast, regions where abortion remains widely available and same-sex marriage is rapidly becoming routine? Or that the neo-Confederate states of the South and the Plains States have sent nearly all of the intransigent, anti-taxation Tea Party members to Congress, while the neo-Union states of the East and West, with their polyglot, immigrant-rich populations, have elected few or none?

    Emphasis mine. Substitute "neo-Confederate" for "Bircher" for a near-perfect correlation.

    Thanks for this diary. Very insightful.

    "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

    by annan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:03:57 AM PST

    •  Neo-Confederate = Bircher. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annan, ybruti, TiaRachel, slothlax, smileycreek

      Oh, yeah. Good pick up.

      My one nit-pick is objecting to continued use of "Tea Party," here and there in media, years after that populist movement ceased to exist.

      Going to "Neo-Confederate" looks to me to be asking too much of readers. And what the Confederacy wanted was slaves -- buy them, own them, work the males to death, and fuck the prettier teenage girls. That was spoken of as "States' Rights."

      Birchers are an intersection with Dominionists, who want to own slaves (through lifetimes of debt) and to fuck the prettier teenage girls. Same useful perversities.

      Buying slaves and working slaves to death -- not necessary.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:35:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. Bircher is the perfect frame in my cohort (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Using the John Birch connection speaks to older mainstream country-club Republicans in a way that neo-confederate never will.

        However, I wonder about voters under 40. How much do they know about the John Birch Society?

        "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

        by annan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:01:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  We can teach them. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          annan

          There's got to be somebody here with training in poli-sci and history, able to take on doing a series of diaries on the John Birch Society.

          Know your enemy. That's it.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:35:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Teaching moments ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bontemps2012

            Just had lunch with three 20-somethings. Asked them if they knew about the John Birch Society and they didn't. My politically aware nephew was interested, so I pointed him to this diary.

            I still thinks this is a terrific frame for the intended audience.

            "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

            by annan on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 01:10:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

              Wish I'd had more time and known more going in. This could be a lot better.

              What we need is a first-rate series that does the history of JBS and the billionaires' intrusions into American democracy.

              The fight is between them and Gouverneur Morris's Preamble.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 08:42:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  "start this battle over spending?" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    Actually, Mick Mulvaney is right to ask "when are we going to start this battle over spending?" Republicans have been talking up a battle over spending. But the 2011 debt limit battle was over the debt, not the spending that created it. The battle won Republicans the sequester deal, but when it came due at the end of 2012 they battled against taxes, and refused to even say which spending they'd cut. The fiscal cliff deal that battle produced specified only which taxes would be raised and which tax cuts would be continued, not spending. And it kicked the spending can down the road to at least March 2013. There's no real reason to believe Republicans will actually fight spending at that time, given all their fighting so far. In fact most of the debt is the spending these Republicans voted into effect.

    Don't get me wrong: Republicans talk a good battle. But just as in real battle, where they demand war they don't physically go and fight themselves, they don't actually fight for spending cuts. Fighting means taking a punch, and doing actual damage to the other guy, not just trash talking. Republicans count on Democrats giving up in the face of threats, because they don't actually do the harm they threaten.

    All of which means that Democrats should insist on cutting $1 TRILLION from the Pentagon's annual $1.5T spending. That's how to fix much of what's wrong with the public economy, and the rest of the economy with it (and much noneconomic wrong, too). But unfortunately Democrats are usually just as cowardly in a fight as Republicans are, and often even more so.

    A typical Bircher Republican reaction to the fiscal vote is provided by Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina:
    "We have not cut spending. In fact, the one place we were supposed to cut spending was on the sequester [and associated measures.] But that got delayed. So our question as conservatives is, when are we going to start this battle over spending? We've waited two years now. We're not going to wait much longer."
    Background

    They have run the country to the edge of default and over this "fiscal cliff." What does it take to make a political "battle" in their eyes?

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:05:52 AM PST

  •  I'm confused... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BeerNotWar, bontemps2012

    ...unless I missed it, now of your coverage in the dairy adressed their obssession with their war on women.

    Are the Business Republicans or Birch Society Republicans repsonsible for the attacks on Planned Parenthood & the attacks on women's reproductive rights?

    Because on both the state & federal level, Republicans have passed hundred (if not thousands) of bills attempting to outlaw abortion & concurrently humiliate women.

    It seems to me this is a join effort between the Business Republicans & the Birch Society Republicans.

    None of your blockquoted slogans mentioned abortion.  I don't understand why, since abortion is their true magnificent obssession.

    I'm worse at what I do best/ And for this gift I feel blessed. - Kurt Cobain

    by wyvern on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:06:44 AM PST

    •  I considered addressing abortion and women's (0+ / 0-)

      issues.

      But the damnedest thing is that Business Republicans are presenting on the campaign trail as being as anti-woman as the Birchers.

      There's not a skosh of difference. They both rely on getting 100% of the single-issue make-abortion-illegal vote.

      It's like pumping up the military, torture, "rendition," and throwing a trillion dollars at buying new fighter jets. They're both on board for all of it.

      I'd expected to find a difference, too. It's not there. Middle-of-the-road Republicans died out years ago, all but a handful.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:23:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Birchers vs Schools (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    These Birch Society Republicans oppose government actions that would raise tax moneys to either "establish Justice" or "promote the general Welfare" beyond setting up police and sufficient schools to turn out some number of students with passable literacy.

    No, they hate schools. You got it right when quoting their slogans:

    Public Schools: Leftist Re-Education Camps    
    An Education Without the Bible Is Useless (Noah Webster, Founding Father)

    All they want government for is force: police and military.  But not to have the monopoly on force that reasonable people expect. They are "might makes right" people, who never want force taken off the table by anyone. Except perhaps momentarily for a temporary target, after they've accused them of using force against them.

    Meanwhile any large problem should be attacked by military and police, whether terrorism, drug addiction, natural disasters, or anything else they fear.

    They are craven bullies, as stupid as they can get.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:13:13 AM PST

  •  The unfortunate effect of this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    is that corporatist Dems and business Republicans form an unbeatable voting block. Which is why "Bipartisanship" is a dirty word.

  •  Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues by Bob Dylan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, slothlax, ladywithafan

    "Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues" by Bob Dylan

    (Published 1970, and still just as true if you replace "Communists" with "Muslims".)

    Well, I was feelin’ sad and feelin’ blue
    I didn’t know what in the world I wus gonna do
    Them Communists they wus comin’ around
    They wus in the air
    They wus on the ground
    They wouldn’t gimme no peace . . .

    So I run down most hurriedly
    And joined up with the John Birch Society
    I got me a secret membership card
    And started off a-walkin’ down the road
    Yee-hoo, I’m a real John Bircher now!
    Look out you Commies!

    Now we all agree with Hitler’s views
    Although he killed six million Jews
    It don’t matter too much that he was a Fascist
    At least you can’t say he was a Communist!
    That’s to say like if you got a cold you take a shot of malaria

    Well, I wus lookin’ everywhere for them gol-darned Reds
    I got up in the mornin’ ’n’ looked under my bed
    Looked in the sink, behind the door
    Looked in the glove compartment of my car
    Couldn’t find ’em . . .

    I wus lookin’ high an’ low for them Reds everywhere
    I wus lookin’ in the sink an’ underneath the chair
    I looked way up my chimney hole
    I even looked deep down inside my toilet bowl
    They got away . . .

    Well, I wus sittin’ home alone an’ started to sweat
    Figured they wus in my T.V. set
    Peeked behind the picture frame
    Got a shock from my feet, hittin’ right up in the brain
    Them Reds caused it!
    I know they did . . . them hard-core ones

    Well, I quit my job so I could work all alone
    Then I changed my name to Sherlock Holmes
    Followed some clues from my detective bag
    And discovered they wus red stripes on the American flag!
    That ol’ Betsy Ross . . .

    Well, I investigated all the books in the library
    Ninety percent of ’em gotta be burned away
    I investigated all the people that I knowed
    Ninety-eight percent of them gotta go
    The other two percent are fellow Birchers . . . just like me

    Now Eisenhower, he’s a Russian spy
    Lincoln, Jefferson and that Roosevelt guy
    To my knowledge there’s just one man
    That’s really a true American: George Lincoln Rockwell
    I know for a fact he hates Commies cus he picketed the movie Exodus

    Well, I fin’ly started thinkin’ straight
    When I run outa things to investigate
    Couldn’t imagine doin’ anything else
    So now I’m sittin’ home investigatin’ myself!
    Hope I don’t find out anything . . . hmm, great God!

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:17:32 AM PST

    •  Perfect. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DocGonzo

      "To my knowledge there’s just one man
      That’s really a true American: George Lincoln Rockwell...." LOL.

      The Birch Society that Dylan describes is exactly the image to what we've got today for this Third Party.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:44:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Corporate Anarchists (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Even the John Birch Society is just a mask for corporate anarchism. Just as the "libertarians" are. Just as the "Christian Right" is. Somewhat different masks depending on which rohrschach the contemporary political market responds to best.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:51:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Any chance you could do that up as a diary ??? (0+ / 0-)

      Explain what Dylan was writing about?

      Throw in a half-dozen references to JBS from histories or from then-current appraisals?

      Lots of kids here have no idea about JBS and why the Kochs are paranoid feaks.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:40:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  We need a 4th party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    Since the majority of Democrats are centrist or even center-right, we need an actual leftist party to counterbalance things.

    ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

    by gjohnsit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:32:13 AM PST

    •  And weaken the Regular Democrats (0+ / 0-)

      like the Birchers are weakening the GOP overall ???

      Really?

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:40:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel

        We need our views represented.
        You know. Like in a democracy.

        Or are you happy knowing that your views aren't represented?

         Besides, the GOP isn't having problems because its conservative politics. It's problems are because it rejected minorities and embraced old people over the young.

        ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

        by gjohnsit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:56:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Winning elections and winning votes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ybruti

          in the Legislative Branch far outweigh emotional rewards from hearing my views "represented."

          Besides, there's Bernie Sanders 24/7/365 for what I really want to hear said over there.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:02:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Having views represented (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TiaRachel

            isn't just about "emotional rewards".
              Without having voters views represented then democracy loses its legitimacy and breaks down. Voting becomes a meaningless exercise.
              Sure, you can have short-term "victories" without representation, but they are pyrrhic.

              It's sad that so many people think that having their views represented in this country is a luxury rather than something essential. No wonder America is dying a slow death.

            ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

            by gjohnsit on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:15:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  People try to do what you are saying (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bontemps2012

              They lose elections.  The Greens run candidates and lose all the time.  Blanche Lincoln was primaried from the left, that didn't work.  I'm not saying don't try.  Just don't think that the problem is the Democrats.  The voters just don't vote for liberals the way you want them to.

              There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

              by slothlax on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:13:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The Greens lose elections (0+ / 0-)

                mostly because there are a lot of people out there that think like you do - that voting for what you believe in is a losing cause.

                 As I said, its the reason why America is dying a slow death.

                ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

                by gjohnsit on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 11:46:00 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Obviously, you can't read minds (0+ / 0-)

                  I vote in the Dem primaries, but I almost never vote on the Democratic line in the general.  I vote Green when they have a candidate, if not I vote for the Dem on the Working Families line if I can or Independence line if I have to.  The more votes Dems get on the WFP line, the more they have to listen to them.

                  More than anything, though, I am interested in power and who has it.  That's the point of politics.  So if I have to vote for a centrist just to make sure a Republican won't win, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

                  Blaming the voters is a losing strategy.

                  There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                  by slothlax on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 05:53:32 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Progressive Democrats of America (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slothlax

            work within the Democratic Party to elect more progressive Democrats. Link

            The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

            by ybruti on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:17:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  still just two parties (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, TiaRachel, Greyhound

    They are just in the process now of realigning, and some of them haven't made the jump yet. But they've already started.

    The Republicans have become Bircher kookjobs.

    The Democrats have become Republicans.

    There is no progressive or social democratic party.

  •  Well, not exactly. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, TiaRachel
    Obama has to know that the Birchers have no strategy.
    Perhaps the Bircher House Caucus has no strategy, but the Birch-minded have pursued a single strategy since Barry Goldwater got swamped in 1964 against LBJ.

    You have to remember at the time Birchers were seen as foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics. Eisenhower was a Communist. Nelson Rockefeller was a Communist. There was a popular song from 1962, which I'll put at the end. "You cannot trust your neighbor; or even next of kin. If your Mommie is a Commie, you've got to turn her in."

    They always saw themselves infiltrating the Republican Party, not as Republicans.

    What we see now, that they have the effect on our Policy discussion; the ALEC plans which are affecting state laws in a big way... these are just early steps in their long-term strategy. And it was spelled out in the '60s in a book called "None Dare Call It Treason."

    It's also worth noting that the right wing factions of that day were constantly at war with each other over doctrinal purity. They've managed to go past that in sort of a "United Front" strategy, but you could see that breaking apart in the last few years. Anti-semites vs Christian Zionist, for example.

    I can't find the original board of directors, but I have read that they were largely Bankers, by the way.

    If the Birchers have no strategy in the House right now, don't think they won't develop one as they settle into their seats. All the more reason to target them in elections in 2014. They really have to go, because they are still insane. As the song says:


    The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

    by Jim P on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:30:36 AM PST

    •  Yes, infiltration of the Republican Party (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim P

      was and is the overall "strategy" of Koch's Birchers.

      Obama is dealing with the House and Senate, so within his purview the Bircher caucus in the House is the main adversary.

      The original Birch Society was as Jew-hating as it got. KKK material, except they could read.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:38:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, they have effectively seized (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        the Republican Party agenda. In the process driving a large part of their voters to "Independent" or even "Democratic" registrations.

        The thing to know is they will never, never, never give up. We have to reduce them back to where they were in the early 1960s, but it's hard because Media treats their objectively insane positions as if they were just regular Party politics.


        The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

        by Jim P on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 10:47:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I moved this last comment to the diary. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jim P

          "...they have effectively seized the Republican Party agenda...."

          I melded it in with the overall flow. But that's a key point to understanding what is going on at the House of Representatives.

          One mystery: why the Hell did they leave Boehner in as Speaker ??? I don't get that one.

          They didn't even try to run the House on their own.

          I'm guessing that the Democrats would have allied themselves with the Business Republicans to thwart that effort, but why not at least try ???

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:46:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ever see The Sopranos? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bontemps2012

            Crime Boss Tony defers to his Uncle as formal Boss of Bosses of the outfit. "Why?" Tony's top-earners ask him. "You are really the head."

            One of them pips up: "Smart. Someone to take the lightning bolts."

            Boehner is as much a hostage, and is being played, as anyone else. Remember, they're a faction looking to gain position and minimize risk. Think Bolsheviks in the Provisional Government.

            These people read Lenin and Trotsky; they've thought long and hard about that seizure of a democratic body, and about the Nazi capture of the Weimar Republic.

            Glad you could use the line. Great diary. A lot of work went into that. If I may pimp my already scrolled-off diary, it's short and mainly about the picture: http://www.dailykos.com/...


            The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

            by Jim P on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:40:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Jews and JBS (0+ / 0-)

        You are mistaken about the JBS, as an organization, being
        "Jew-hating".   At one point, in fact, Jewish Birchers created an organization of their own to supplement the activities of the JBS.  Many of the most prominent writers for JBS publications have been Jewish (such as Alan Stang and Gary Allen).  Currently, David Eisenberg serves on the JBS National Council---the governing body of the JBS.

        However it is true that the JBS has often attacked Jewish organizations (such as ADL) as serving Communist interests.

        •  The original JBS in the 1950s (0+ / 0-)

          was as Jew-hating as the KKK, the Mormons, the White Citizens Council, and the worst of the Fundie sects.

          When the Fundies changed course in the 1970s, JBS also changed course. At least publicly. Then the Chicago School NeoCons provided support for much of their agenda, plus Israel's right wing became allies.

          That doesn't change what JBS was doing in the 1950s.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 10:47:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  KKK and Jew Hating (0+ / 0-)

            Sorry Bontemps but you are totally wrong.  

            The JBS as an organization never "hated Jews" -- which is why it was able to attract Jewish members and why it hired Jewish writers to write for its publications and it also hired Jewish speakers to give pro-JBS speeches around our country.  

            And, that is also why Jewish Birchers created a separate organization, the Jewish Society of Americanists, to promote the ideas of the JBS.

            If you really want to know what Jew-haters thought about the Birch Society -- check out the comments made by such notorious Jew-haters as Elizabeth Dilling, Lyrl Clark Van Hyning, Ben Klassen, and American Nazi Party leader George Lincoln Rockwell --- all of whom viciously attacked the JBS and its founder Robert Welch for his refusal to adopt their sick ideas.

            •  You weren't living in the South. (0+ / 0-)

              Hand in glove.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:02:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Living in South (0+ / 0-)

                Any why do I need to live in the south to understand that your comments are fiction?

                I previously mentioned the JBS member who infiltrated the most violent Klan in our country for the FBI and his testimony was instrumental in the conviction of numerous Klan members.

                I also could have mentioned (for example) that the JBS Coordinator for the state of Mississippi (J. Vernon Pace) contacted the Jackson MS FBI field office on several occasions to keep them apprised of what the JBS was doing in Mississippi to expose and oppose white supremacists.

                There are many examples one could give you of southerners who were Birchers who despised the Klan and similar organizations.  Two more examples:  Lola Belle Holmes (born and raised in Louisiana) and Julia Brown (born and raised in Atlanta).  Both were African American women who became FBI informants inside the Communist Party USA.  After they surfaced and testified, they became JBS members and then were employed by the JBS Speakers Bureau.  Another example: the famous conservative author/columnist George S. Schuyler -- who was a JBS member.

                The issue of racism or bigotry inside the JBS is a very complex matter to discuss.  Obviously, I understand your desire to smear ANYBODY whom you think has different political convictions from your own -- but it is precisely your malicious and false broad generalizations which Birchers use to support their contentions that JBS critics are ignorant fools.

    •  Here's how Birchers read Reagan: (0+ / 0-)

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 06:33:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Their mission (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    Making things as crappy for the rest of us as think it is for them.

  •  "They run as a pack ..." (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    Yes, frothing at the mouth, rabid and sick with moral self-righteousness.

    At least the No-Nothings fizzled out.  I'm a fool, I guess, to believe these Birchers will ever be silenced --- at least not in my lifetime!

    Thanks for this diary!

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:22:20 AM PST

  •  Not sure Bircher is the best framing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, Iberian

    The actual Birch Society was distinguished mainly by hysterical opposition to communism and embrace of conspiracy theories. They went over the edge of respectability when they started theorizing that Eisenhower was a secret Communist.

    The current Tea Party crop has some that are equally crazy and there will probably be a purge at some time in which these become too much of an embarrassment and abruptly get cut off from funding and support by the national party.

    But the Koch brothers and the like who are funding the Tea Party candidates don't really think Obama is a Muslim Kenyan socialist or care whether fetuses are legally people. They want a radical restructuring of government's role in society and they are willing to put up a lot of money to promote that idea, make it respectable, and back candidates who espouse it. Well-funded think tanks like the Heritage Foundation are part of this effort. This part of the Tea Party (the real movers and funders behind it) have much more money and power than the Birch Society ever commanded and they came fairly close to getting their candidate elected in 2012. They should not be underestimated.

  •  We don't have two parties, yet. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    And we might not.  Neither GOP faction wants to see three-way races in the general election, which would hand the country to the Democrats.  Each faction would be better off if it can retain the Republican name and secure the reluctant votes of the other faction.

    The Bircher faction values purity, so they are the more likely to split off.  The banker faction doesn't want that, which simply gives the Bircher's an internal 'debt limit' that they can hold hostage.

    This has helped progressives recently.  We lost some blue dogs and gained some relatively progressive legislators because the GOP ran a number of incompetent radicals.  It won't continue.

    The Democratic party will sidle a little farther to the right to gain those who used to be moderate Republicans and win the House.  Progressives will be in the position that the Birchers were in the Reagan-Bush I years; getting lip service but no results.

    And so it goes.

    A new birth of freedom..

    by docterry on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:22:59 PM PST

    •  We have three-way races now, just in (0+ / 0-)

      two stages.

      The Bircher runs against the Business Republican first, then that winner takes on the Democrat.

      That is the pattern in ~250 House races.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:49:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another slogan is that Obama and the Dems (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    stole the election, because certainly the voters could not have re-elected him! There was that survey, in Ohio I think, that showed that more than half of GOP voters thought ACORN stole the election. Out here in the SW, we still hear that Dems bus immigrants across the border to vote for them. When Gabby Giffords was running in 2010, her opponent, Jesse Kelly, a bible-thumpin' Bircher if there ever was one, made that accusation more than once.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 12:36:55 PM PST

  •  Tea cups (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    That is what I call the "foot soldiers" of the TEA Party and their Bircher "betters".

    Shallow, fragile, and a wide open mouth for the poisoned misinformation and the golden shower of trickle down economics..

    Interesting analysis and observations (comments, too!) in this diary, thank you for taking the time to put it together.

    Forget Occam's Razor, try hitting them with Darwin's Hammer!

    by Munynn on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:20:16 PM PST

    •  You're welcome. (0+ / 0-)

      Feel free to do a follow up on any part of this Bircher phenomenon.

      This has been around since the Korean War, polluting American politics with paranoia, racism, and too much money.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 05:53:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Actually, we have 4 parties. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    The 2 Republican ones, the "New" (i.e., corporatist, Bowles et al.) Democrats, the New Deal (I.e., relatively progressive) Democrats.

                Of course, we've had versions of those 4 parties during the entire Post-War period.  The story of the last 30-40 years has been the gathering strength of the far right Republican Birchites and the increasing marginalization of the progressive Democrats.  

         The most positive thing about the last election is that seemed to include some promise that that long historical nightmare might not only just might be ending but might actually go into reverse as the white majority gradually loses its hegemony.

  •  They are openly anti-Democracy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    The line "America is a Republic, not a Democracy!" is right out of the John Birch Society. What they object to is "We the People".

    They insist on defining "Democracy" as a pure direct democracy, but if they are using that definition, they have nothing to object to when they object to democracy in America.

    The government of the United States is both a Republic and a Democracy. It's a Republic because we have a head of state that is not a monarch. It's a Democracy because the ultimate sovereign is the people. And yes, sovereignty is collective, as in "WE the people."

    The John Birch Society is totalitarian. They despise "the people" because "the people" might just make decisions that the JBS disapproves of.

    The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

    by A Citizen on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:38:42 PM PST

    •  That's why I quoted Gouverneur Morris (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Citizen

      and his Preamble to the Constitution.

      "The John Birch Society is totalitarian."

      That's it.

      There are also strong ties inside the Evangelical hierarchies and with the Mormons. They want to rule, not have democracy.

      Please, please dig out JBS writings on this subject and post up a diary. Many of the kids here likely have never heard of the Birch Society before, so all this will be new to them.

      People need to know that totalitarianism is alive and well in America. And financed by the Kochs and their friends.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:08:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  totalitarian? (0+ / 0-)

      You trivialize the concept of totalitarian by describing the JBS that way.  No JBS member is required to do anything which conflicts with their personal values or viewpoints.  That hardly describes a "totalitarian" mindset.

      However, it is true that the structure of the JBS as an organization is top-down, i.e. members do not vote to choose or change their leadership nor the policies of their Society.  It was created to be an action organization (rather than just an endless "debate society" -- so its internal structure was meant to facilitate such action as the JBS leadership decided.

      It would be wrong, however, to think that there have been no internal disputes within the Society.  There have been numerous such policy disputes and many prominent (and wealthy) Birchers have resigned in protest.

  •  Interesting use of the term Bircher (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    It's much more applicable than "Tea Party", which is based off an idiotic premise anyway.

    I don't predict a real 3rd party forming - the Birchers are too disorganized - but I see them continuing to cement a separate branch of Congress. In a few years I wouldn't be surprised if they start caucusing as the "Tea Party" in name only - they won't form an actual party because that actually requires organization.

    Needless to say, this civil war between the Republicans is great for the Good Guys (tm).

    16, Progressive, Indian-American, Phillies Phan. Obama/Om/Chase Utley

    by vidanto on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:13:54 PM PST

    •  There is a legal "Tea Party Caucus" (0+ / 0-)

      at the House of Representatives.

      No xxxx. Formed up in 2010 if memory serves.

      Up till the "Fiscal Cliff" vote, Bircher infiltration was more or less ignored by the professionals in the GOP. All of those Leadership guys have been Business Republicans, so seeing Cantor go with the Birchers might not be quite what it seems. (Spoofing the Birchers can happen on either side of the aisle.)

      But now the lines are drawn. Bircher vs. Business is a forced battle in March.

      Birchers are clearly out there against the Business clast. The ensuing fight has seen Boehner removing Birchers from committee posts ASAP this week.

      He was reelected, but that can be reversed in a day. Nobody knows where those votes would fall.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:01:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Was re-reading THE GUNS OF AUGUST after it was (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    mentioned in a diary a week or two ago, and I'm struck by how similar in mindset the French and German generals of 1914 were to the people who are screwing up the American government today. The French High Command sounds very much like Fox News, where they have a pre-set idea of what they will do no matter what, no one dare change the plan, and any information that challenges that plan is either dismissed with weak excuses or ignored completely. Just like the generals seemed not to fathom that their capricious orders caused the wasteful deaths of thousands of men every single day, the RW politicians and business leaders don't have a clue what their psychotic mission of destruction upon the American fabric actually means in real terms. Thus they would destroy the US economy just to make a profit, cancel needed infrastructure rebuilding to promote a political statement, etc.
    The blunders of 1914 destroyed or significantly altered a huge segment of civilization. I can only dread what our modern day "generals" will eventually do to America.

    Ash-sha'b yurid isqat an-nizzam!

    by fourthcornerman on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:33:08 PM PST

  •  interesting. (0+ / 0-)

    to my knowledge, the john birch society (JBS) was formed, by welch (welch's grape juice), koch (daddy), and others, as a rabidly anti-communist, anti-new world order group. while some of its members may have been anti-semitic, racist, mysogynst, etc., those were never (at least, not in the beginning) part of the JBS theology. while it was a bunch of wealthy crackpots, who didn't like to pay taxes (or for anything else, for that matter), again, that had nothing to do with basic JBS policy. after all, if they destroyed the gov't, who would enforce their property rights?

    these guys were so far around the bend, they actually met themselves. according to the JBS, the US & USSR were, contrary to popular belief, actually enjoined in a conspiracy to take over the world. further, johnson's actions in vietnam were not, as believed, aimed at stopping the communist "domino effect" in se asia, but were actually a devious plot to enhance it. like i said, far around the bend. yes, they were very concerned about our "precious bodily fluids" being polluted with flouride (a chemical added to water, in the treatment process, to help prevent tooth decay. as it turns out, this has its own problems, but the "international communist conspiracy" isn't one of them).

    while the current crop of "nut jobs of the month", masquerading as tea party repubicans in congress, may espouse some, or all, of the JBS agenda, i hadn't really noticed the "international communist conspiracy (or cabal, take your pick)" as being a real high priority for them. sure, they're a sneaky bunch, but with that many people involved, someone would have (at least unintentionally) spilled the beans. yes, i know, rep. allen west (R-Lunatic), drawing on his inner joe mccarthy, claimed to "have a list of communists" (where oh where are gilbert & sullivan, when you really need them?), in the house democratic caucus, but that died a quick death, when someone reminded him that the wall fell 20 years ago, and everyone pretty much agreed he's nuts.

    so no, i don't think this is the JBS, in some metastised form, even though yes, the koch's are behind it. the tea party wing, of the republican party, pretty much has a one goal agenda: wipe out taxes on wealthy people, with an ancillery goal of deregulating business completely. the JBS never went in that direction, welch, koch, etc. had other lobbyists for that.

    •  Welch (0+ / 0-)

      Yes, the JBS was founded by Robert Welch but he had no connection whatsoever to Welch Grape Juice.  Instead, Robert worked in the candy business his entire adult life---mostly working for his brother's company, the James O. Welch Company.

      The JBS is not, as an organization, racist or anti-semitic but it has never attracted any significant numbers of Jews or black Americans into its ranks.  The Communist Party USA had 10 times as many "Jews" and blacks as the JBS -- but so what?  It still experienced "white chauvinism" according to many of its former black members .... and the "Jews" inside the Party had totally rejected their religious heritage -- and often were anti-Israel as well.

      •  In the South JBS was for KKK types (0+ / 0-)

        who could read.

        And card-carrying paranoids. I must have heard it 100 times that the Supreme Court was packed with secret communists. Yes, from people my Dad knew who were Birchers.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:00:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Reply to Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

          Once again, you make malicious assertions but do not provide any verifiable factual evidence to support your comments.

          If you were ever sued for defamation by a JBS member, you would unquestionably lose -- because you base everything you believe upon vicious gossip, rumor, and hearsay.  In legalese, you exhibit a "reckless disregard for truth" -- which is the legal standard for MALICE.

          And just for the record, the Birch Society has never stated that our Supreme Court "was packed with secret Communists".  That is just another example of something you INVENTED to smear them.

          What the JBS has said, however, is that many Supreme Court decisions regarding internal security-related matters (when Earl Warren was our Chief Justice) were often decided in a manner which the JBS thought was consistently favorable to the Communist Party.  The same criticism was made by the American Bar Association during the 1950's and 1960's.  We have similar legal disputes today with respect to the Patriot Act and similar legislation.  We argue about the proper balance between "security" vs "civil liberties".  During the 1950's and 1960's, conservatives thought our Supreme Court was making decisions that ultimately would disadvantage our country in terms of internal security.

          Because of this belief, the Birch Society proposed the impeachment of Earl Warren.  That was a brain-dead proposal which got absolutely no where.  Even prominent conservative columnists (such as George Sokolsky) and prominent conservative politicians (for example Sen. Barry Goldwater) disagreed with the JBS on that and said it was a pointless endeavor.

  •  Birch Society (0+ / 0-)

    The Koch Family did not "found the JBS" as this article claims.  Fred Koch was one of 11 people who attended the first meeting called by founder Robert Welch.  However, Fred ultimately resigned from the Society because (according to his wife) he thought Robert Welch's views were too extreme.

    Also, based upon polling and statements made by Tea Party Movement leaders, it is wrong to conflate the Tea Party with the JBS.

    The Tea Party Movement (TPM) does not share the same ideology as the John Birch Society.

    When I discuss this matter, I often point this out: All humans have blood, but if you are given the wrong blood type you die!

    Similarly, many persons, organizations, and movements may superficially appear to share similar ideas or objectives -- but, in reality, upon careful examination they have irreconcilable differences which render them incompatible with each other.

    That is the case with the TPM.

    Yes--it is true that if you use lowest-common-denominator reasoning, you can assert that the TPM and JBS are similar. But you have to look closer. The predicates of JBS ideology are NOT shared by most TPM adherents---based upon polling which has been done such as NY Times/CBS News poll and based upon comments made by TPM leaders.

    TPM adherents respect and admire conservative politicians and conservative activists. The JBS does not believe that people like Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Nelson Rockefeller, Newt Gingrich, John McCain, George Bush, William F. Buckley Jr and the National Review crowd, plus many prominent right-wing intellectuals and pundits are actually genuine conservatives.

    In fact, the JBS often refuses now to use "conservative" as a descriptive term because it prefers "constitutionalist" or "Americanist" -- and by JBS lights most GOP Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates plus most GOP cabinet-level appointments and GOP Senators/Congressmen since World War II have NOT been "constitutionalists" or "Americanists".

    The most recent issue of the JBS "Freedom Index" which scores the voting behavior of all members of Congress reflects that, from the JBS perspective, many GOP Senators score only 50% to 70%. In the JBS scheme of things, 50% is a failing score, 60% is poor, and 70% represents unpredictable behavior from someone who may be an opportunist and not sincerely committed to "constitutionalist" principles.

    According to the JBS, the average score for the House of Representatives is 47% and the average score for the Senate is 43% -- which means, from the JBS perspective, the Republican-controlled Congress is a total failure.

    Specifically, the JBS gives POOR or FAIL SCORES (equivalent to D or F if you were in school) to such prominent Tea Party movement heroes as:

    Cong. Michelle Bachmann (MN) = 50%
    Cong. Jason Chaffetz (UT) = 67%
    Cong. Paul Ryan (WI) = 60%
    Cong. Marsha Blackburn (TN) = 60%

    In the Senate, the JBS gives a POOR or FAIL SCORE to many prominent conservatives, including:

    Marco Rubio (FL) = 70%
    Saxby Chambliss (GA) = 67%
    Scott Brown (MA) = 20%
    Roy Blunt (MO) = 60%
    Rob Portman (OH) = 70%
    Lindsey Graham (SC) = 60%

    The JBS thinks that our government (no matter which party wins elections or controls Congress) has been captured by an elitist cabal of "enemies" whose allegiance is to a one-world socialist paradigm which is intended to eviscerate our Constitution and destroy our freedoms.

    Another area where you can see profound differences between the TPM and the JBS concerns our civil rights movement. I doubt that many TPM adherents would agree with the JBS predicate that our civil rights movement was begun by Communists, was staffed by Communists, was controlled by Communists, and "served only Communist purposes" -- which is the JBS position.

    Furthermore, I doubt many TPM adherents would agree with the following JBS position (as stated in its May 2008 JBS Bulletin):

    “Just as the John Birch Society showed in the 1960's that the communists basically ran both the civil rights movement and the KKK, the strategy was nothing new. The former was used to transfer power to Washington DC in the name of civil rights and the latter provided a pretext for transferring power to Washington. You cannot get a really good conflict started unless you control both sides of the argument.”

    Furthermore, the CEO of the John Birch Society and the JBS magazine have explicitly stated that people like Sarah Palin and Cong. Paul Ryan CANNOT be trusted.

    The JBS magazine just recently posted an article stating that Cong. Paul Ryan IS NOT a genuine conservative nor a fiscal hawk nor a serious genuine government reformer!

    The Tea Party Movement is, by and large, concerned primarily with fiscal matters and especially growth of government. By contrast, the Birch Society has a much more highly developed ideology which is based upon their conspiratorial arguments about the motives of the persons who have run our country (and our large institutions) since Woodrow Wilson was in office.

    The Birch Society DESPISES neo-cons (such as are represented in The Weekly Standard magazine). They DESPISE most establishment Republican politicians. They DESPISE the National Review crowd (Bill Buckley's magazine; in fact, the current President of the JBS, John McManus, wrote a scathing book about Buckley).

    Mrs. Robert Welch terminated her membership in the Birch Society because she was so angry over how the new leaders of the JBS (after her husband Robert died) were savaging Ronald Reagan in the pages of the JBS magazine, The New American. The JBS described Reagan as a "phony" conservative. The current JBS President, John McManus, once said that if the Republican Party nominated Reagan for President, it would be indisputable evidence that he was "a lackey of the Communists" !!

    By contrast: see if you can find many Tea Party adherents who think Reagan was a phony conservative! or who despise Bill Buckley, John McCain, Bob Dole, and who think Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann and other politicians like them are NOT genuine conservatives.

    The Birch Society's current CEO (Art Thompson) wrote an article years ago questioning the bona fides of Tea Party favorite, Sarah Palin, as a "constitutionalist".

    In addition, Palin's unwavering support for Israel and her support for our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was evidence (in the JBS scheme of things) that she could not be trusted and probably was just a pawn of neo-cons whom the JBS despises.

    This evidence should make it obvious that the Tea Party movement is quite distinct from the JBS

    •  Today's JBS is very different in the particulars (0+ / 0-)

      from what the original JBS offered.

      And yes, Robert Welch was the first chairman though the coalition that Koch put together through JBS has been what has enduring effect on politics.

      Welch attracted the likes of Larry McDonald.

      Koch went on and put together a half-dozen major Powell System think tanks. His sons have turned the corner to getting 150 on board in the House.

      It's still a long-term continuation of the original principles of the first incarnation of the Birch Society.

      JBS is the "duck" for Far Right billionaire projects in America.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:57:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fred Koch (0+ / 0-)

        I do not understand your comment.

        1.  Yes, Fred Koch was one of the first members of the JBS and he served on its National Council -- but he resigned from the Society because (according to his wife), he thought that Robert Welch's ideas were "too extreme".

        More importantly:

        2.  Based upon my research, it seems clear that Fred Koch was not particularly active within the JBS.  I have obtained thousands of pages of the personal papers of several JBS National Council members which are archived at various colleges and universities.  Because of this, I have been able to see the personal correspondence exchanged between and among Council members and between them and JBS founder Robert Welch.  

        The JBS National Council members who appear to have had the most contact with Robert Welch (and who were the most active within the Society) were men like Thomas Anderson (TN), William Grede (WI), A.G. Heinsohn Jr. (TN) and Clarence Manion (IN).  Fred Koch does not seem to have had the time or interest to participate very much with respect to internal policy decisions or disputes.

        And, again, I repeat:  your assertion that today's JBS is "very different in the particulars from what the original JBS offered" is simple FALSE.   The only thing that IS different now is that the public relations staff of the JBS is much more skilled (and professional) than it was during the first decade or two of JBS existence.  And JBS publications (and its website) are much more attractive.  But the basic ideas which motivate the JBS and its objectives remain exactly the same.

  •  General Observations (0+ / 0-)

    I have done research on the Birch Society for more than 4 decades.

    Many of the messages in this thread make statements and assertions about the JBS which are utter falsehoods.  And some are just gross exaggerations.

    There are many valid reasons to oppose the JBS -- but making false statements about their beliefs and objectives only helps the JBS characterize all of their opponents as maliciously ignorant and part of the problem we face as a country.

    I am willing to bet that very few people who have posted messages here have ever read a JBS-published or JBS-recommended book.  If you want to know what the JBS actually believes, try doing some independent research and stop repeating all these bizarre (and often false) accusations.

    The reality about the JBS is more troubling than the caricatures presented here because many entirely decent, honorable, thoughtful, and principled Americans have joined the Birch Society because they genuinely believe that "less government and more personal responsibility" (the JBS motto) is exactly what we need.

    What those folks often do not know, however, is the underlying history of the JBS -- and the fact that senior contemporary JBS leaders have never retracted or corrected any of the accusations made by their founder Robert Welch.

    More info here:
    https://sites.google.com/...

    •  This is based on Congressional JBSers, (0+ / 0-)

      JBS staffers who were Far Right paranoids, and southern JBSers in particular.

      The JBS organization was spread out when the Powell Memo was implemented in 1974. It has continued to be spread out for years, getting to elections in 1984 when they started replacing Business Republicans.

      It's now a stealth organization. And what the core JBS group does is a small part of the whole "JBS" movement.

      I am happy to count a number of groups as part of what the original "JBS" has become. No days, billionaire money and commonality with the JBS paranoid trademarks make for a "JBS" organization.

      "When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck." -- JW Riley

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:47:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, Bontemps, But You Are DELUSIONAL (0+ / 0-)

        After reading this message from you, it is now clear that you are just fabricating lies about the JBS from some kind of profound animus that has no relation whatsoever to facts.

        I do not even know what you mean by the JBS being "spread out" in 1974 or what "the Powell Memo" refers to -- particularly with respect to the JBS.

        The JBS has always been "spread out".  It has chapters in every state of our country.  

        I have no clue what significance you think 1974 has.  Nothing happened to, or within, the JBS in 1974 that was particularly noteworthy.  

        1985, however, was a very critical year since JBS founder Robert Welch died in January of that year.

        I also have no clue what you mean by counting "a number of groups as part of what the original JBS has become".  This is entirely gibberish!

        Basically, what you are doing is writing FICTION.  And like every FICTION writer, you just invent characters and villains and then move your story line along whatever path you want readers to believe---even though it is entirely and only a creation of your fevered imagination.

        Anyone who wants serious fact-based discussion about the Birch Society must look elsewhere because Bontemps2012 obviously knows nothing about the JBS.

  •  John Birch Society (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    It's past time that we realized how far to the right the GOP has lurched. There is almost no daylight between John Birch Society ideas and GOP policies on women, guns, the UN, voting rights, civil rights, regulations, government spending, the safety net, education and more.  

    At thirteen I was swept up in my parents' obsession with the Communist conspiracy and "taking back the country." My father was the first John Birch Society member in the city of Chicago. My mother was the second. I was a full adult member of the society when I was thirteen. I knew Birch leaders and participated in Birch projects. My father moved into the national leadership and served on the National Council for 32 years. He worked directly with Robert Welch and Fred Koch.

    Over years, I evolved into an outspoken critic of the Birch society, a stance that provoked harsh criticism from my parents. Five years ago, I realized that the jump of the GOP to the far right heralded a rebirth of the Birch Society--both its membership and its ideas. My book, Wrapped in the Flag, coming July 2013 from Beacon Press is a personal look into the heart of this radical movement.

    I know the Birch Society and I know it's dangerous for the country. I also know that we need to help our progressive friends to understand why radical right ideas have reemerged and avoid fighting with each other. That said, I do have to agree with ernie--let's get our Birch facts staight.

     

    •  Hot damn !! (0+ / 0-)

      A real expert.

      That being said, the existing JBS is doing everything they can arrange to rebrand themselves, to adopt populist/Libertarian language, to generate materials suitable for "stealth" candidates.

      They've got the money to do it. But at the core they are the same paranoids they were in the 1950s to 1980s.

      Look forward to your book !

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:33:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Libertarians and the Birchers (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        The Birch Society helped me with the research for my book. In one coversation, one of the researchers told me that the Society had its largest membership growth EVER since President Obama was elected. That was quite a shock to me--I remember when my father was bragging about coming close to the magic 100,000 membership number back in 1960. I also remember when Jack McManus, Birch president, admitted that membership had falled to the tens of thousands -- in the late 1990s.

        The Birchers are busy rebranding themselves as you can see on their website. At the same time, they have not changed positions on anything; only scrubbed them up for 2000s consumption.

        Also, there is much discussion of the Birchers and the Tea Party-- as far as the government spending issues, they are one and the same. In fact, my father was a big fan of the "Don't Tread on Me" flag way back when. Today's Birchers have embraced Jerome Corsi and the Birthers, embraced Ron Paul's libertarians and given awards to David and Charles Koch for their patriotic contributions. As far as I can tell, these folks are all part of the far far right. Their differences do not keep them from fighting everything progressive since FDR.

        •  We saw the official Birch Society (0+ / 0-)

          change significantly over the years.

          They put the paranoid fantasies on hold, some of it. Hard to keep anti-communism alive.

          In the South they were too smart to do crazy illegal things. Similar to White Citizens Council in attitudes.

          The Mormon branch of JBS is outside what this diary set out to do. That is its own story.

          Don't confuse the rebranded JBS with what the core group, Welch-Koch-etc.,  set out to accomplish 60 years ago. Their beliefs have not much at all in common with today's web site. The rebranding has changed everything visible. It is a propaganda effort.

          By the way: the first death of the Cold war would have been Raoul Wallenberg if anyone had been counting.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 07:11:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  JBS Growth (0+ / 0-)

          Claire:  That "greatest growth ever" should not "shock" you.  

          The JBS has always admitted that their leanest years have been when a Republican wins a Presidential election.

          But contrary to your comment, the JBS was never even close to 100,000 members in 1960.  

          If you check my Documentary History of the JBS webpage, you will see the exact membership numbers which I obtained from minutes of JBS National Council meetings.  

          In September 1960, the JBS had 324 chapters and 5300 members according to Welch and it was growing by about 1300 members per month.

          In 1962, the Society had approximately 16,462 members.  I base this calculation upon the dues income reported to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

          The Birch Society's CPA firm (Spark, Mann and Company) reported that the JBS received $536,566.35 in member dues in 1964 which would calculate to about 29,809 members using the average of $18 per member (men paid $24, and women paid $12 for annual dues, so average dues payment would be $18 per member).

          In 1968, a JBS publication stated:

          “In fact, we have not yet climbed out of the 60,000-100,000 bracket which we have publicly acknowledged for about 2 years."

          In September 1968, Robert Welch declared that there were 4000 JBS chapter leaders in the U.S.   Since the average chapter was usually 15-20 members, one could reasonably assume that JBS membership in 1968 was between 60,000 and 80,000 (its high point).

          After the death of Robert Welch in 1985, there were a series of internal disputes within the JBS -- particularly with respect to new leadership.  As a result, there was a dramatic decline in dues-paying members.

          Then, in the early 1990's, confidential membership documents were leaked which revealed that in 1993 there were only 13,806 active JBS members.  In 1997, active members totaled 14,839.

  •  John Birch Society (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    A few facts to consider: Robert Welch made his money in the candy business where he worked with his brother. Welch is the inventor of Sugar Daddies. Welch was a child prodigy--home schooled. He attended college at the age of 12, spent several years at the Naval Academy (never finished) and two years at Harvard Law (never finished). Welch followed in the footsteps of Joseph McCarthy in his fear of the Communists. Like McCarthy, Welch believed that the Communists inside the US would be our downfall. In 1958, when he founded the Birch Society, he believed that the US would be merged into the Soviet Union with the next ten years, give or take.

    Welch named his society after Captain John Birch, a Baptist missionary and US intelligence officer who was killed by a band of Red Chinese insurgents in China-August 25, 1945. Welch considered Birch to be the first casualty of the Cold War and an unrecognized American Hero.

    Welch also believed that the Communist conspiracy was one arm of an international conspiracy--the Illuminati--founded in Bavaria in 1776.

    The conspiracy theories of the Birch Society are a hallmark of the organization. Many of their specific policy ideas flow directly from the conspiracy idea.

    •  They also had the Trilateral Commission (0+ / 0-)

      an international socialist conspiracy. Missing that this was capitalist bankers, almost all of them.

      I think of Larry McDonald when JBS comes up.

      Had a cousin who was one of their neighbors. Stayed friends with the first wife after he went off the deep end.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:36:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd be ok if the birchers would start their own (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    party.  As it is, anyone in the GOP has to act like they agree with the Birchers to some extent.

    •  A JBS Political Party? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      The JBS does not believe that any new political party could be successful unless and until the groundwork of re-educating the American public has been achieved.

      From the JBS perspective, it is pointless to engage in normal political activity when the media is "controlled" and our two political parties are "controlled" by forces which do not genuinely understand (or obey) our Constitution.

      Therefore, the only answer (says the JBS) is that the American people must first be "educated" to understand and believe in Constitutional government as originally created by our Founders.   Only then can political activity succeed.

      Which is why the JBS was created as an "educational" organization -- not a political party.

    •  They just infiltrated. (0+ / 0-)

      More efficient.

      And they had all the old McCarthy and Nixon lovers still around when they started to move ahead in 1984.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:37:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  No they did not... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    The Koch family founded the John Birch Society.
    Fred Koch was a founding member. He did not start the thing.

    From Wikipedia:

    The society was established in Indianapolis, Indiana, on December 9, 1958, by a group of 12 led by Robert Welch, Jr., a retired candy manufacturer from Belmont, Massachusetts. Welch named the new organization after John Birch, an American Baptist missionary and United States military intelligence officer who had been shot by communist forces in China in August 1945, shortly after the conclusion of World War II. Welch claimed that Birch was an unknown but dedicated anti-communist,[8] and the first American casualty of the Cold War.[citation needed]

    Fred Koch, founder of Koch Industries, was one of the founding members.[24][25][26][27] Robert Waring Stoddard, President of Wyman-Gordon, a major industrial enterprise, was also among the founders.[28] Another was Revilo P. Oliver, a University of Illinois professor who later severed his relationship with the society and helped found the National Alliance. A transcript of Welch's two-day presentation at the founding meeting was published as The Blue Book of the John Birch Society, and became a cornerstone of its beliefs, with each new member receiving a copy.[12] According to Welch, "both the U.S. and Soviet governments are controlled by the same furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians. If left unexposed, the traitors inside the U.S. government would betray the country's sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order, managed by a 'one-world socialist government.'"[29][30] Welch saw collectivism as the main threat to Western Civilization, and liberals as "secret communist traitors" who provided cover for the gradual process of collectivism, with the ultimate goal of replacing the nations of western civilization with a one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of welfarism, socialism, and collectivism in general," he wrote, "but Communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction."[30]
    The society's activities include distribution of literature, pamphlets, magazines, videos and other educational material while sponsoring a Speaker's Bureau, which invites "speakers who are keenly aware of the motivations that drive political policy".[31] One of the first public activities of the society was a "Get US Out!" (of membership in the UN) campaign, which claimed in 1959 that the "Real nature of [the] UN is to build a One World Government."[32] In 1960, Welch advised JBS members to: "Join your local P.T.A. at the beginning of the school year, get your conservative friends to do likewise, and go to work to take it over."[33] One Man's Opinion, a magazine launched by Welch in 1956, was renamed American Opinion, and became the society's official publication. The society publishes the biweekly journal The New American. [11]

    Koch is Jewish, what y'all got against Jews?

    I'm just sayin'.....

    •  Oddly, the Southern chapters of JBS (0+ / 0-)

      were often "restricted." And anti-Jew even after the NeoCons came along.

      Hard habits to break. Same for patterns of language.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 04:39:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Another Libelous Falsehood By Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

        For anyone who believes this absurd nonsense, ask Bontemps to specify the names of each JBS chapter in the south which were "restricted".

        Don't accept ANY weasel-worded excuses from Bontemps.  Demand specific details regarding which JBS chapters were "restricted" and "anti-Jew".

        After Bontempts refuses to provide the specific JBS chapter name -- then consider this:

        1.  Hundreds of Jews decided to join the JBS from its inception in December 1958 and afterward.  

        One of the founding members of the Society (who also served on the JBS National Council) was Alfred Kohlberg.  If you are not familiar with him -- look him up.

        2.  The first JBS chapters were formed in February 1959.  Among the first members to join were Jews such as Willi Schlamm.   Schlamm also became an Associate Editor of the JBS magazine at that time, i.e. "American Opinion".

        3.  Other members of the Jewish faith who joined  and became very prominent within the Society include:  Alan Stang, Gary Allen, Samuel L. Blumenfeld, Georgia Gabor,  Joseph Siegel, Michael Kogan, Dr. Barney W. Finkel.

        4.  In February 1966, Thomas J. Davis, the JBS Public Relations Manager for the Eastern United States stated that 1,000 members of the JBS were Jewish.

        5.  David Eisenberg serves on the current JBS National Council.  In addition, there are many JBS members of the Jewish faith who are prominent in their local communities.  For example, look up Andy Dlinn.

        6.  One of the most vicious neo-nazi websites in existence is Stormfront.  Here is a typical comment posted on it in October 2010 regarding the Birch Society:

        "Is this a jew organization? They never talk against jews but they talk against Hitler's Germany and fascism. They talk against the NWO. The NWO is kind of silly and doesn't make sense if you never mention the jews. Seems to me like John Birch society is a jew organization designed to waste people's time and mislead people with half truth and half lies, omissions, and misdirection."

        If, after reading this information, Bontemps continues to describe the Birch Society as anti-Jewish, then all of us should should that Bontemps is a chronic, habitual, and pathological liar.

      •  One More Comment (0+ / 0-)

        The only official investigation ever conducted into the Birch Society was done by the California State Senate Factfinding Subcommittee on Un-American Activities.

        As is the case today, California government was controlled by Democrats and the Subcommittee's Chairman was Democratic State Senator Hugh Burns, a supporter of the liberal California Governor at that time, Pat Brown [Jerry Brown (Pat's son) is the current Governor of California].

        So what did this Senate Subcommittee conclude with respect to charges of anti-semitism or hostility toward Jews within the Birch Society?  Compare their comments (quoted below) to what Bontemps has written:

        --------------------

        "Among other unjustified criticisms against the society is the charge that it is anti-Semitic. Our investigation leads us to the opposite conclusion. The organization is open to people of all religions, all races, all political persuasions except those deemed subversive. A member of the society in Southern California stated:

        "As a member of the John Birch Society and also a member of the American Jewish League Against Communism, I vehemently deny the allegations of persons or groups claiming that the John Birch Society is a fascist, or any other un-American, collectivist organization. It has been my experience, as a member of a so-called 'minority group' that I have felt in the society a very great sense of mutual co-operation and respect-a conviction of 'belonging' far above the actual circumstance to be found in daily life outside the society." (Statement from Jerome E. Linz, January 13, 1962.)

        Several publications on the extreme right have accused Mr. Welch of welcoming Jews into the society, and Lyrl Clark Van Hyning and Elizabeth Dilling have attacked the movement on the ground that Welch's committees and followers are nothing but "A bunch of Jews and Jew-kissers." (Bulletin, April 1961, p16.)

        There are many Jews on the Birch committees, many in the Society; some members have been asked to resign because they were found to be disruptive with their anti-Semitic attitude; the Jewish B'nai B'rith has found no evidence of anti-Semitism, and Welch has explained that in some localities his Co-ordinators are working with representatives of the B'nai B'rith to squelch anti-Semitism."

        •  NeoCon ultranationalist Israelis (0+ / 0-)

          flocked to America's Far Right organizations.

          But the language and attitudes of Deep South chapters of JBS in the 50's and 60s could not have been more hatefully antisemitic. Throwing in anti-Jew comments in ordinary conversation was a rampant as it was (and still is) in places such as Saudi Arabia.

          JBS is a hate group always blaming somebody for something and it always has been. The targets shift a little here and there.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:22:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Once Again, More Deliberate Lies By Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

            Notice that when Bontemps posts messages, there NEVER is any verifiable factual evidence.  Instead, everything Bontemps presents is merely personal opinion.

            Notice that Bontemps makes very bold and specific assertions such as stating that JBS chapters in the deep south "could not have been more hatefully antisemitic".

            1. But what factual evidence does Bontemps present?
            NONE WHATSOEVER!

            2.  How would Bontemps discover reliable data about Deep South chapters of the JBS?  Where is such information available?
            BONTEMPS DOES NOT SAY -- for obvious reasons.

            3.  If, as Bontemps contends, the Deep South chapters of the JBS could not be "more hatefully antisemitic" -- then how does Bontemps explain why orthodox Jews nevertheless joined the Society and became JBS chapter leaders, section leaders, Coordinators?
            OBVIOUSLY, BONTEMPS CANNOT EXPLAIN THIS

            4.  If, as Bontemps contends, the JBS "is a hate group", then how does Bontemps explain why so many prominent Americans became members or supporters of the JBS -- especially those JBS members/supporters who were themselves a minority group  (i.e. Jews, Asians, Hispanics,and African-Americans?)
            DO MINORITIES TYPICALLY JOIN OR RECOMMEND "HATE GROUPS" AND EVEN BECOME EMPLOYED BY THEM?

            5.  During its existence, the JBS has attracted many prominent political figures (including Governors, State Legislators, Mayors, U.S. Senators, U.S. Representatives), clergymen, lawyers, doctors, authors, newspaper editors and columnists, Hollywood actors/actresses, and retired senior military officers (Rear Admirals, Generals, Lt. Colonels, etc).  

            Does Bontemps really expect us to believe that ALL of these individuals were BIGOTS who were attracted to a "hate group"?

            6.  How does Bontemps explain the FACT that the only official investigation ever conducted by a legislative body (the California Senate Subcommittee which I previously mentioned in one of my messages) spent two years investigating the Birch Society but explicitly DENIED the charges made by Bontemps?

            •  Yeah, da Birchus are not crazy ????? (0+ / 0-)
              -- Government Attitude Towards Elderly Leads to Euthanasia
              -- Oppose Ratification of the UN Treaty on Disability Rights
              -- Voter Fraud
              -- Signs of a Declining Economy
              -- Russia Rising and Communism Isn't Dead  
              -- Nobel Prize Goes to EU. Communist President of EU Commission Thankful.
              -- Arab Unrest and Voter Fraud (in America somehow)
              -- Ron Paul Drummed Out of Republican Party and Corruption of the Republican Party
              -- Questions about the Aurora Colorado Movie Shooting
              -- Attack on Christianity and Restore Religious Freedom in America
              -- United Nations Ordering U.S. Troops to War
              -- Long-term Goal of a United Nations Standing Army Behind the Syria Solution

              These are lead articles from recent months, as JBS tries to present itself as a MOR, sensible operation. All up on the web site.

              The Aurora piece is a classic. How did the shooter buy his guns ??? That's obvious, isn't it. But the CEO of JBS states the question as a mystery, an indication that sinister assistant(s) or financial backers were involved. The country is under a tsunami of guns and Aurora's a mystery. If you want to see paranoia at work, have a great time with that one.

              However, if you want to see the JBS "Agenda" then you have to be a dues-paying member, similar to getting special treatment by paying dues at Limbaugh's "Excellence In Broadcasting" club. Or you can follow "non-member" Ron Paul, who's been a fellow traveler for decades:

              --    Allow anybody to mint money by passing the "...Free Competition in Currency Act, which repeals legal tender laws and all taxes on gold and silver.";
              --    Force the FDA and the FTC to allow any dietary supplement onto the market "...unless they have clear evidence that the manufacturer's clams are not true." This is a prescription for endless lawsuits.
              --    Kill Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid for future generations;
              --    End Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits for people getting them now --but giving them "...time to prepare for the day when responsibility for providing aide is returned to those organizations best able to administer compassionate and effective help--churches and private charities."
              --    Fire up to 800,000 federal workers through attrition, not filling vacancies for "non-essential" jobs.
              --    Veto budgets he didn't like;
              --    Substantially defund federal education programs;
              --    Likewise, defund the Byrne Grants that help local police fight interstate crime.
              Wonderful citizens, not paranoid and surely not ignorant of the basic workings of modern industrial societies. Not ignorant of capitalist economics.... Not ignorant of the pay-back that comes with public investment in education for children. Not wacked out thinking that communes of Israelis and Hippies were Hell on earth. Of course not.

              The Russians are coming !! And pigs fly ! And talk. I saw that ad on t.v.

              "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

              by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:08:12 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  What is The Point Made By Bontemps? (0+ / 0-)

                OK -- you think Birchers are "crazy" and you are certainly entitled to your personal opinion.  

                And perhaps you have the same judgment about anybody whose political preferences differ from yours.

                But what is your point?

                You posted your message as a reply to my message in which I challenged you to provide specific verifiable factual evidence to support your accusations against the JBS.  YOU wrote that southern chapters of the JBS "could not have been more hatefully antisemitic".

                So---I asked you for details and I asked you to reveal your sources of information and how you went about verifying that they were accurate and truthful -- but you provided NO DETAILS WHATSOEVER.

                I guess what you are saying is this:  

                In YOUR scheme of things, it is entirely fair and reasonable for someone to express malicious, hateful, mean-spirited, pejorative and defamatory statements and conclusions about YOU and YOUR BELIEFS without EVER providing ANY substantiation for those accusations.

                So, if I wanted to do so, I could accuse YOU of being an anti-semite, OR I could accuse YOU of being a Communist or Fascist, OR I could accuse YOU of being a mentally deranged individual ---- and ALL of that would be entirely fair and reasonable commentary?   And I would NEVER be required to provide any verifiable factual evidence to support my horrific allegations against YOU.

                And THAT is the type of dialog you want us to have in our country.  THAT is the type of communication which you think appeals to the best instincts in our neighbors.

                SHAME ON YOU!

                You are the mirror image of the Birchers!!   You both inject POISON into our political discourse and pretend to be doing so for the betterment of our country.

  •  The Pre-Kotch roots. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    I lived in Dallas before the JFK murder and the Birchers and downtown businessmen ran that city. Back when a billion dollars was a lot of money Dallas had a billionaire, H.L. Hunt. Hunt was an oil man, well that may be an exaggeration. Hunt went from farmhouse to farmhouse in the third world woods and fields of of East Texas leasing the right to drill for oil on properties. H.L. Hunt didn't do a lot of drilling his own self, but sub leased his rights to them who would drill. Hunt canned his own line of vegetables and had his line of patent medicines. He wrote a utopian novel, "Alpaca" I think it was called. Google it. His main competitor was the Standard Oil, and after hunt began financing the Birch Society the Rockafeller family became the great satan behind the One World Secret Conspiracy. After Hunt died it came out that he had at least three secret families that didn't know each other existed. The Birch Society exists to lend voice that little crackpot in us all. What gives them power is their single mindedness of purpose while the rest of us live our lives concerned with more important things.  Sort of like the NRA without guns.

    •  Solid "A" for that comment. (0+ / 0-)

      The JBS backers in Georgia and Florida had similar obsessions. It was maybe a skosh more racist, assuming that was possible.

      ernie1241 writes that a Bircher infiltrated the Klan effectively. He ought to know that the guy's anti-communist NAACP-bashing Bircher jargon made that right easy for him.

      Paranoia + too much money = Bircher madness.

      Happened over and over.

      Koch Industries was the really big money in JBS early on. More than everybody else combined. Fred Koch outgrew JBS and ran his operations sub rosa -- he was smarter by far than Welch.

      JBS is the original. JBS's rants from the early days are the model for extremist rants, copied by every right wing centralized operation.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 05:30:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dallas (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bontemps2012

      I discuss the right wing in Dallas in 1963 in my book. I hope you'll look at my website and see the blogs I've written about JFK and the Wanted for Treason poster that appeared all over Dallas just before he arrived. www.claireconner.com.

  •  EXCELLENT ARTICLE! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    Best I've read in a while, very intelligent & full of the kind of information I need to live in this world. Thank you! And thanks too to all the commenters - on the whole, a great bunch of people who are also intelligent and enlightened. I spent a long time on this today instead of just browsing briefly, and it was worth it.

    •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

      The Birchers put their strongest effort to camouflaging their public images, followed closely by disguising how they vote, what they back while in office. John Kline is a perfect example.

      That makes them very difficult to fight off.

      That and buckets of money.

      JBS had a few odd ball Congressmen back 1960s/1970s. Then the JBS-clones learned to use disinformation. Starting in 1984 they started eating Business Republicans for lunch.

      They look stupid. Talk shit. Yell "You lie!" at the President. But the Birch Society Republicans are the professionals, the guys who wiped out close to 2/3 of the Republican Party without so much as being correctly identified.

      (Populist "Tea Party," bullxxxx.)

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 at 06:53:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  KANSAS, MISSOURI, TEXAS ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    I feel one generality made is slightly off the mark.  It is that only the "southern tier", which are at the bottom of the educational scale, are less aware and the JBS (as well as the KKK) thrive in this ignorance.  But what about Kansas, Missouri and Texas?  These states are upper crust when it comes to an educated populace.  Now look at the small percentage of progressives as opposed to fanatical far righties they send to office.

    •  Texas is dead last (0+ / 0-)

      as measured by % of high schoolers who graduate. Missouri is 28th.

      There's plenty of dumb to go around.

      But Birchers do tend to have some education, if not in technical or professional areas. There are a few exceptions even there.

      The way Birchers got big, early, was the dedicated paranoia of the Red Scare. And same era, calling the Civil Rights people "communist agent" over and over had a following.

      Keep in mind that their paranoid delusions are truly delusional. Go to their web site today -- that's JBS trying to look sane and modern. The items barely touch reality before going off to conspiracy fantasies.

      That's the driver for a voting block in the House with 150 Members. Bircher madness.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 09:42:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What is a "clast"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    The online dictionary says something about rocks. Just seems like maybe you meant some other word.

    Also, this sentence "Where the winning total is under 500,000 seats and education level is below average, expect Birchers to do well." I think you mean "votes" not "seats"?

    Otherwise, a very well-written and argued post. Thank you very much. My Dad hated the Birchers in the 60s and it's hard to believe they're having a resurgence in this horrifying way.

    •  Clast: in geology a mass of broken rock, (0+ / 0-)

      or more rarely an individual piece.

      Perfect for today's House Mess.

      Yes, "votes." I'll try to change that if the diary still takes editing. Thank you.

      Birchers were always a product of billionaire money, narcissism, paranoia, and xenophobia. Racism at its ugliest is also in the mix. Nasty people, now camouflaged.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:58:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  More Lies From Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

        From all available factual information (which Bontemps obviously has no acquaintance with), the JBS had always relied upon members dues and relatively small contributions for its existence.  

        YES, it also had some financial angels who were quite wealthy --- but based upon financial statements filed with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and financial statements prepared by the Birch Society's CPA firm (Spark Mann & Co.),  there were very few huge contributions.

        In fact, for most of its existence, the JBS as a corporate entity operated annually with considerable annual debt.

        It is clear what Bontemps is trying to do....namely, use highly charged scare words and descriptive phrases like "billionaire money" and "paranoia" and "xenophobia" to discredit and de-humanize the JBS.  

        This type of over-the-top libelous assault is precisely what the Birch Society counts upon to discredit its critics as ignorant and malicious fools.

        As previously stated, there are plenty of FACT-based reasons to reject the JBS -- but people like Bontemps are so irrational and mean-spirited that any rookie Bircher can easily discredit such critics because they fabricate utterly false accusations which are easily disproven.

        It is now indisputable:  Bontemps is totally clueless and cannot provide reliable factual information re: the JBS or its history.  If you prefer malicious FICTION -- then you can accept whatever Bontemps writes.  But for those who prefer rational fact-based discussion -- Bontemps is not a reliable source.

        •  Apologia for the John Birch Society. (0+ / 0-)

          My, my.

          Pretending that Robert Welch and his crew were anything but raving paranoids is laughable. Unless you think that President Eisenhower and Earl Warren were commie plants ???

          And the money in and around JBS was always gotten from very wealthy, very mentally unreliable individuals. Proponents of Far Right politicals seek excuses for their own moental problems -- not much else. They seek high flown excuses for greed, hatred, savagery.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:15:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You Deliberately Misrepresent What I Wrote! (0+ / 0-)

            In more than one message here I have described Birch Society thinking as "delusional" and I have repeatedly stated that their conclusions were false.

            However, one does not have to believe or repeat your malicious LIES about the JBS in order to establish that one is an opponent of the Birch Society.

            You claim to be knowledgeable about "the money" which the JBS "has always gotten from very wealthy, very mentally unreliable individuals".

            OK---here is your opportunity to impress every reader of this thread with respect to your knowledge about JBS history, JBS members, and JBS finances.

            1.  GIVE US SPECIFIC DETAILS

            2.  EXACTLY HOW MUCH MONEY DID THESE PERSONS GIVE TO THE JBS?

            3.  TELL US THEIR NAMES AND THE EXACT AMOUNTS THAT THEY GAVE TO THE JBS

            4.  AND BE SURE TO TELL US WHAT SOURCES OF INFORMATION YOU ARE USING AND HOW YOU DETERMINED THAT THEY ARE RELIABLE -- i.e. presenting accurate and truthful information.

            If you cannot or will not provide SPECIFIC verifiable factual evidence -- then the only possible conclusion is that you are DELIBERATELY LYING.

            By contrast, I have told you what my sources of information are.  For example, I have relied upon financial  reports which the Birch Society was required to file (by law) with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.   I also have relied upon financial statements prepared by the CPA firm which the JBS used (Spark, Mann and Company).

            In addition, I use the following sources:

            1. FBI investigative files [I am the only person in our country who has obtained the entire FBI HQ file on the JBS which is 12,000 pages (HQ 62-104401).  I also am the only person who has obtained most of the FBI field office files on the JBS.

            2.  Personal papers of JBS National Council members which contain copies of private internal JBS documents -- including minutes of JBS National Council meetings and correspondence from Robert Welch to National Council members which include discussions of JBS membership statistics and financial matters.

            3.  Confidential JBS documents leaked by former JBS members who terminated their membership because of disputes they had with new leadership after Robert Welch died.

            So, Bontemps, now it is YOUR turn.   Tell us what YOUR sources are.

            •  I Rest My Case! (0+ / 0-)

              I note, for the record, that I challenged Bontemps to tell us the sources of information which he/she uses --- but Bontemps has now refused to do so.

              This is how ALL political extremists operate (whether Birchers or persons like Bontemps who claim to have reliable knowledge about the JBS.)

              The basic methodology employed by all political extremists is as follows:

              1.  Make broad generalizations about people or organizations -- and be sure that they contain highly defamatory accusations.

              2.  Then refuse to answer specific questions about those accusations.

              3.  Also refuse to specify what sources you relied upon for those accusations.

              4.  Always attempt to de-legitimize and demonize any perceived opponent by making personal ad hominem attacks upon their character, integrity, patriotism, or mental stability.

              5.  Pretend to have unique insights and special knowledge about whatever matters are being discussed but always continue to make broad generalizations while deliberately ignoring whatever questions are asked (especially when somebody asks you to specify your sources of information.)

              For more details regarding the extremist personality and their tactics -- see this very perceptive article by Laird Wilcox regarding Extremist Traits:

              http://www.lairdwilcox.com/...

              As will be seen --- Bontemps easily falls into many of the categories listed.

  •  WHAT A BIZARRE COMMENT!! (0+ / 0-)

    The article which I responded to in this thread has been revised to make the following absurd comment:

    Bircher infiltration of the Republican Party (1984-2004 and 2010) is covered in comments from our Jim P and others. As well an array of pro-Birch Society comments from ernie1241 are worth the price of admission by themselves.  

    I have made no "pro-Birch comments".  I have corrected several comments made here by people who have no factual knowledge about the matters they are discussing.

    Anybody familiar with me and the numerous reports I have posted online knows that I have spent over 40 years criticizing the Birch Society for its numerous falsehoods and for the poison they have injected into our political discourse.

    See for example:
    https://sites.google.com/...

    I have posted hundreds of messages online which falsify the statements made by Birch Society members and supporters and which are contained in JBS publications.  Several years ago the Birch Society banned me from posting messages on its website forums---because they were unable to refute what I presented which established that they were presenting inaccurate or false information to their members.

    Numerous JBS members have described me in highly pejorative (and libelous) terms -- and usually they make malicious comments about my patriotism and character.

    Numerous authors and researchers and scholars have relied upon information and documents they obtained from me -- and they have cited me in their articles, books, conference papers, and doctoral dissertations.  One of the contributors to this thread (Claire Conner) is one of those individuals as she will readily acknowledge.

    What this demonstrates (yet again) is that Bontemps is incapable of accurately characterizing the beliefs of persons whom Bontemps perceives as a critic of his (her?) personal views.

    •  Ernie's materials (0+ / 0-)

      I owe many thanks to Ernie for his vast files on the Birch society. He was able to find everything I couldn't and he offered tremendous help to me whenever I asked.

      To me, one of the most important points about the Birchers, one that easily gets lost, is this: their IDEAS have moved from the fringe of the right wing fringe to the mainstream of today's GOP.

      The issues that drove the Birchers: United Nations, textbooks, civil rights, Communist conspiracy, New World Order, taxes, gun control, regulation, Social Security, Medicare continue to drive the GOP. I believe that the Birch influence has spread far beyond the issue of membershp numbers. The issue is this: what used to be radical is now regular talking points.  

      The uproar about the debt ceiling is a case in point. Increasing the debt ceiling used to be routine. Not now. The Birch idea of cutting government programs, until they no longer exist, is the new mantra of the GOP. My father used to delight over the idea of reducing the federal government by 60% (of its size in 1958). Long before Grover Norquist, making government small enough to drown in the bathtub drove the right.

      •  What used to be Welch's paranoid (0+ / 0-)

        rants -- what was alleged to be "content" -- is now the message of a modern propaganda machine.

        It's still in every way Bircher Madness.

        JBS gave a wide array of radical Far Right conspiracy groups a common ground. They could participate in JBS and slowly, over time remove each other from their hate lists.

        Baptists took Catholics off their hate list. That might qualify as a miracle.

        The big changes came when Weyrich's think tanks came of age. They found real-world issues to work, plus Reagan and Thatcher provided cover for large-scale redistribution policies. Not that the paranoid topics weren't still useful come election time. The magic "Agenda 21" scam is typical --

        A total of 17-trillion was removed from America's Middle Class. 11-TT of it went to the very wealthy, 6-TT went overseas. As of 2012, Blacks got none of the redistribution -- their average family asset holding are where they were in 1980 despite better education.

        But from JBS and the think tanks, not a peep. They're not exactly your most enthusiastic trust busters.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 12:47:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Another LIE From Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

          Bontemps boldly declares (with the kind of absolutist certitude which is a marker for extremist discourse) that the JBS never uttered "a peep" about the trillions of dollars "removed from America's Middle Class" -- which "went to the very wealthy."

          By this one comment, Bontemps has revealed something exceptionally important.  

          It is now unmistakable and indisputable that Bontemps has never read any JBS publication during the past 50 years--and particularly none during the past 5 years!

          Honorable, decent, principled, and thoughtful men and women of all political persuasions can (and should) vehemently disagree about all sorts of public policy matters in a free society.  

          But when we confront intellectually dishonest individuals who deliberately lie, we must not be afraid to publicly declare that they have no useful contribution to make to our public discussions -- because of their dishonesty.  That applies to Birchers.  That also applies to critics of the JBS.

          Regrettably, this is the case with Bontemps.  He/she just INVENTS positions which he/she then falsely attributes to the John Birch Society -- even when those fabrications are the exact opposite of what the JBS actually believes and precisely opposite to what JBS publications and speakers have publicly declared for many years.

          •  Please, continue. Show one example. (0+ / 0-)

            Show where JBS anywhere from 1959 to 2013 has addressed the issue of upward redistribution.

            Of course in 1959 it was not yet a problem. So make it 1981 to present, narrowing the search.

            Please, continue... with evidence from your vast file of documents from JBS.

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 09:26:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Reply to Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

              All you have to do, Bontemps, IF you genuinely are interested, is go to the JBS website and search for their commentaries during the past few years concerning the economic meltdown which has occurred.

              What you are totally ignorant about is the populist strain in JBS rhetoric, i.e. they usually present ALL problems we confront as a nation in terms of powerful and influential "insiders" (their term) who are seeking to bring about a "one world socialist dictatorship".

              In the JBS scheme of things, those "insiders" are (more often than not) very wealthy individuals and institutions who manipulate our politicians to do their bidding.

              As I have previously told you, you need to read the JBS-recommended books, "The Naked Capitalist" by W. Cleon Skousen and "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" by Gary Allen.  

              Also read the more recent book, "The Insiders" by the current JBS President (John McManus) -- and you will finally get a sense of how UTTERLY ABSURD and FALSE your views are.

              Perhaps the most significant core belief of the Birch Society is, and always has been, their contention that the conspiratorial group which they refer to as "The Insiders" intends (and I quote verbatim)

              "...to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.  In other words, this power mad clique wants to control and rule the world."

              Furthermore, the JBS believes that the system which The Insiders will create will mean that every person's...

              "freedom and choice will be controlled within very narrow alternatives by the fact that he will be numbered from birth and followed, as a number, through his educational training, his required military or other public service, his tax contributions, his health and medical requirements, and his final retirement and death benefits."

              This Insider-created system "wants control over all natural resources, business, banking and transportation...In order to accomplish these aims, the conspirators have had no qualms about fomenting wars, depressions, and hatred.  They want a monopoly which would eliminate all competitors and destroy the free enterprise system."

              GIVEN THAT BACKGROUND, perhaps you can now understand why the Birch Society believes that our most recent economic downturn was precisely what The Insiders wanted (and CREATED!) in order to destroy the middle class in our country and bring them under the control of the system which The Insiders believe is required for them to succeed in their ultimate objectives!

              Now, if you want further details, I refer you to some of the chapter titles in the book by Gary Allen:

              "Socialism---Royal Road to Power For The Super-Rich"

              "The Money Manipulators"

              "Bankrolling The Bolshevik Revolution"

              "The Rockefellers and the Reds"

              "Pressure From Above and Pressure From Below"

              In the JBS scheme of things,  our country's wealthy "power hungry elitists" are behind ALL of our economic problems -- and they are manipulating our economy behind the curtains of deception which they have created.  The primary VICTIMS are ordinary middle-class Americans.

      •  Fringe JBS vs Mainstream GOP? (0+ / 0-)

        Claire:

        It all depends upon how you define the terms of this debate.

        Historically, the Republican Party has always believed in low taxation and it has always been skeptical about the cost and adverse impact of big government programs along with onerous government regulations and their often incompetent or imperious bureaucracies.

        There is nothing about those positions which can be attributed to either the Birch Society or to Robert Welch --- because those ideas or positions pre-dated the JBS by decades!

        Furthermore, I think we must be careful about attempting to demonize or de-legitimize changes in public perceptions about what government should and should not do.  By all available information, most Americans think that President Ronald Reagan was a decent, honorable, principled, and competent/effective President.  Nevertheless, many of the ideas which he brought into government could be described as "Bircher" ideas if one is using only lowest-common-denominator reasoning and one merely wants to discredit everything and everybody with conservative credentials.

        Reducing the size and scope of government is NOT a "Bircher" idea.  It is entirely consistent with our historical understanding (from our inception as an independent nation) about the proper role and functions of government.  

        In addition, it is very important to keep in mind this critical point:  

        In many cases the JBS opposes FEDERAL GOVERNMENT activity which they think should be left to individual states because our Constitution does not authorize FEDERAL GOVERNMENT action on those matters.

        That is quite different from advocating the abolition or strangling of all government.

        We must not allow ourselves to believe that we can never change our ideas about what our government should or should not do.  

        Inertia is not an intelligent or reasonable position.  

        Anybody familiar with large institutions (especially government bureaucracy) knows that they waste many billions of dollars and they often duplicate functions or they often exhibit utter incompetence.

        •  Ronald Reagan expanded government (0+ / 0-)

          substantially. Reagan also expanded Federal deficits even faster than his budgeted spending, because he also got his tax cuts through in 1981.

          The sum and total of the actions that Reagan brought to the Federal government increased the size and scope of government.

          The deficits under Reagan and Bush41 simply exploded as budgets soared and taxes, from Republican votes, fell on the wealthy.

          From WW II to 1980 the budgets stayed sensible and the Federal debt declined steadily as a fraction of GDP. Nixon-Ford-Carter ran into recessions, but were able to generate small improvements.

          GO GREEN LINE !! If Reagan had balanced the budget, allowing annual growth to pay off deficit, the Clinton surpluses would have paid off the last of the Federal deficit.

          That's simple arithmetic. Not even econometric modeling. Reagan-Bush41 exploded the deficits by increasing the size of the budget and cutting top-end taxes:

          This information is not Top Secret. There is no observable Illuminati Gang hiding the Federal budgets from the 1980s and 1990s inside a Cycloptic Pyramid. Here's the expansion to annual Federal spending under Reagan and then Bush41:

          1981 - $678,241,000,000
          1982 - $745,743,000,000
          1983 - $808,364,000,000
          1984 - $851,853,000,000
          1985 - $946,396,000,000
          1986 - $990,441,000,000
          1987 - $1,004,083,000,000
          1988 - $1,064,481,000,000
          1989 - $1,143,829,000,000
          1990 - $1,253,130,000,000
          1991 - $1,324,331,000,000
          1992 - $1,381,649,000,000
          1993 - $1,409,522,000,000

          The 1981 budget/spending was inherited from the Carter Administration. That is a suitable baseline -- Federal spending had been moving upward in lockstep with expansion of GDP. Reagan and Bush41 changed all that.

          The 1993 budget/spending was Clinton's inheritance from Bush41.

          What did Reagan believe ??? Look at what he did.

          The Bircher version of Reagan is a dream.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 09:23:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Email brings a link for Tennessee: (0+ / 0-)

    Tennessee Republicans Copy John Birch Society Model Legislation on Agenda 21

    House Republicans recently passed a resolution, sponsored by Rep. Kevin Brooks, condemning the plan, using almost identical language from a John Birch Society model bill. The Tennessean reports: Tennessee lawmakers passed a resolution Thursday condemning a United Nations environmental plan as a “destructive and insidious” effort to advance a communist agenda....
    Birchers are still back in the 50s and 60s, pumping up anti-communism as a viable project. Kicking the dead dog.

    Bircher Republicans are a political party unto themselves. The most successful invasion of a major party in American history.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:08:27 PM PST

  •  A summary of Bircher activities: (0+ / 0-)

    Are Republicans Actually John Birch Society, Tinfoil Hat Nutjobs? Two New Pieces of Evidence.

    This piece is not limited to the House of Representatives. Bircher tinfoil has quite the range. As noted above, the business Republicans have no part in these elements of madness:

    Is today's Republican Party basically the 2012 equivalent of the tinfoil hat, conspiracy theorist, foaming-at-the-mouth-insane John Birch Society? I've suspected that for a while now, but for those of you still in doubt, here are two strong new pieces of evidence.

    1. A new PPP poll finds that, among other things, 49% of Republican voters "think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama." Even when ACORN was actually a live organization, that would be completely insane, but guess what: ACORN doesn't even exist anymore! I know, details details...and facts, damn those facts! LOL. Oh yeah, and "25% of Republicans say they would like their state to secede from the union." Ee gads.

    2. A bunch of right-wingnut U.S. Senators today stopped ratification of "an international treaty intended to protect the rights of those with disabilities." Leading the charge against it was extremist/wacko Rick Santorum, who was " particularly worried that the committee could violate the rights of parents who choose to home school their disabled children," and who claimed "This is a direct assault on us." Plus, it's the UN, and ya know...they've got those black helicopters and stuff (don't tell anyone, though, or they'll come and take you away to North Korea or something...).

    What's really scary is that three of the Republicans "yea" votes - Scott Brown, Olympia Snowe, Richard Lugar - came from people who are leaving the Senate. Fortunately, they're all being replaced by Democrats (or a de facto Democrat in the case of Maine), but still, it shows that the number of relatively sane, relatively reasonable Republicans in the U.S. Senate is dwindling fast.

    P.S. By the way, that disability treaty, "already signed by 155 nations and ratified by 126 countries, including Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia, states that nations should strive to assure that the disabled enjoy the same rights and fundamental freedoms as their fellow citizens." It "also was widely backed by the disabilities community and veterans groups." Crazy/horrible, huh?

    North Korea kidnapped several Japanese citizens over the years. But I don't think Rick Santorum is on their snatch list.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:15:38 PM PST

    •  Republican LG candidate Pete Snyder (0+ / 0-)

      applauded the defeat of the disabled people's treaty:

      Snyder Applauds Defeat of U.N. Treaty

      While liberty continues to be under assault  domestically, recently we have had overseas threats to our sovereignty hit our shores.

      I want to point out the tremendous efforts of Dr. Mike Farris, and the Home School Legal Defense Association for stopping a dangerous U.N. treaty from ratification by the U.S. Senate today.  

      Dr. Farris rightly sounded the alarm bell about the U.N. treaty's flaws during his recent congressional testimony, in which he spoke about his mother who suffers from MS:  if passed, "the government, rather than parents, gets to decide what is best for children."  While in name the treaty sounded laudable, the United States must not subvert its laws to global government and thus imperil parental rights. This is a big win for parents and defenders of liberty in Virginia and across the country.

      Bircher madness. 200-proof.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

      by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:20:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Email brings this question: (0+ / 0-)
    Do we have two major parties and one minor party? The "business" wing of the Republicans also occupy more vulnerable seats, compared with "birchers."
    84 seats =  19% of the House.

    Minor party... that sounds right.

    Analysis of safe seats between Business and Birch Society is worth a look.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 at 05:13:14 PM PST

  •  Richard Hofstadter: "The Paranoid Style (0+ / 0-)

    in American Politics" for this quote.

    Keep in mind that McCarthyism was disorganized. There was no McCarthy Society. There were no McCarthy meetings in church cellars. The Birchers fixed that.

    What had been fringe rants in 1952 became a movement starting in 1958. It took Paul Weyrich to get things respectable starting in 1972, but the common threads run through everything:

    The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms—he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization.

    As a member of the avant-garde who is capable of perceiving the conspiracy before it is fully obvious to an as yet unaroused public, the paranoid is a militant leader. He does not see social conflict as something to be mediated and compromised, in the manner of the working politician. Since what is at stake is always a conflict between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish.

    The paranoid’s interpretation of history is distinctly personal: decisive events are not taken as part of the stream of history, but as the consequences of someone’s will. Very often the enemy is held to possess some especially effective source of power: he controls the press; he has unlimited funds; he has a new secret for influencing the mind (brainwashing); he has a special technique for seduction (the Catholic confessional).

    A.k.a., Bircher Madness.

    With Bircher Republicans holding 150 seats in the House, they are successful.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 07:08:44 AM PST

    •  More LIES By Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

      Just for once, let's try to be logical, ok?

      Bontemps boldly declares that "Bircher Republicans" hold 150 seats in the House.

      The 112th Congress began with 242 Republicans in the House.  Therefore, according to Bontemps, 150 of the 242 House Republicans were "Bircher Republicans".

      So...Expressed as a percentage, Bontemps is claiming that 62% of Republicans in the House were "Bircher Republicans".

      Now, for anyone who would like to see the evaluation which the Birch Society made regarding Republicans in the House of Representatives, see the October 2012 issue of the JBS "Freedom Index".

      The Freedom Index is the tool which the JBS uses to score the voting behavior of all members of the House and Senate.   Here is the link to the most recent issue:

      http://jbs.org/...

      As readers will notice, the JBS scored all the Republicans in the House at 47%.   So, let's put this in more easily understood terms:

      Just like in school, a score of 47% means you FAILED MISERABLY on your test.

      And that is PRECISELY what the JBS thinks about the Republicans in Congress.

      The JBS "Freedom Index" is intended to measure the degree to which...

      (1)  members of Congress understand and obey our Constitution

      (2)  members of Congress vote CORRECTLY (i.e. vote the way the JBS thinks is appropriate--because their vote conforms to what the JBS wants)

      So, once again, Birchers think the Republicans in the House FAIL MISERABLY.

      In fact, the only thing WORSE than House Republicans (according to the JBS) is SENATE REPUBLICANS --- who score 40% (average).

      What this shows, indisputably, is that (once again) Bontemps is TOTALLY CLUELESS about what the JBS believes and the criteria which they use to evaluate our political class in general, and our elected representatives in particular.

      Bontemps exhibits such profound ignorance that NOTHING he/she writes can be believed because it is ENTIRELY FICTION!

      •  Postscript (0+ / 0-)

        Just a thought:

        Suppose Bontemps were to list the names of what he/she thinks were the 50 most important "Bircher Republicans" in the House (112th Congress).

        Then we could check the Freedom Index to determine how the JBS actually evaluated each of those 50 individuals.

        In a previous message, I reported the previous JBS score on some of the more prominent "Tea Party" supported politicians.  Most likely, Bontemps would  describe them as "Bircher Republicans".  Nevertheless, the JBS concluded that they were NOT voting in the manner which the JBS prefers.  So how would that make them "Bircher Republicans" ??

        Another interesting question:

        What percentage of the time could ANY member of Congress vote differently from the personal political preferences of Bontemps -- but, nevertheless, NOT be described as a "Bircher Republican"?  In other words, how many times could someone DISAGREE with Bontemps without being labeled a "Bircher Republican"?

        I suspect that the answer is virtually NONE!

        •  JBS is doing it's damnedest (0+ / 0-)

          to appear to be a normal, sensible organization. It rates politicians, same as PACs and interest groups. This Freedom Index rates up-or-down votes on 40 issues.

          However most of the issues on the list are stock political issues: supporting Kogan for SCOTUS, Transportation-HUD appropriations, Unemployment Payment Extension, and Science and Technology. Despite odd descriptions -- claiming "unconstitutional" or "illegal" for this and that -- these are arguably civil disagreements.

          To be a true Bircher in the tradition of Far Right extremism, the key issues involve willingness to damage the country in clear, nonsensical pursuit of paranoid fantasies.

          Yeah, that's the 150 Members in the House.

          Watch this Klan of Birchers line up to wreck the good economic standing of the country with their phony Debt Limit craziness. But fortunately the Business Republicans know they are crazy. The Dems and the Bizzies ain't gonna let it happen.

          Come 2014 in November, look for a major renewal to the Bizzies, as well. At worst the Bizzies are honest patriots, not the ilk of these ignorant zealots.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

          by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:41:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  More Gibberish From Bontemps (0+ / 0-)

            Once again, Bontemps reveals that he/she is the mirror image of the Birchers...because Bontemps uses "reason" and "logic" and "evidence" in PRECISELY the same fashion as Birchers.

            As previously mentioned, I have debated Birchers for more than 40 years.  One of their most salient characteristics is their absolute contempt for any data which does not conform to what they prefer to believe.

            Similarly, when Bontemps confronts indisputable factual evidence that the Birch Society has evaluated the House Republicans in the last Congress as abject failures -- i.e. they DID NOT vote the way in which the JBS prefers --- suddenly that data is irrelevant to Bontemps.

            Another characteristic of ALL political extremists (like Bontemps and Birchers) is their relentless attempt to demonize, de-humanize, and de-legitimize ALL perceived opponents.  In other words, there is NEVER a decent, honorable, thoughtful, and principled alternative competing viewpoint or position.

            Instead, there is always ONLY ONE correct interpretation of whatever issue is being discussed and ONLY ONE correct public policy option which should be chosen...and,  "coincidentally" -- that ONE interpretation and ONE policy option ALWAYS conforms to the political preferences of the political extremist.   How convenient!

            Bontemps declares that Birchers have a willingness to damage our country in the service of their paranoid fantasies.  It makes no difference to Bontemps, of course, that the current leaders of the Republican Party (both in and out of Congress) have no connections to the JBS.  

            It also makes no difference whatsoever to Bontemps  that the essential premises of JBS ideology are anathema to most Republicans---even very conservative Republicans in Congress who associate themselves with (for example) the legacy of Ronald Reagan or who have positive evaluations about individuals like Newt Gingrich or who credit someone like William F. Buckley and his magazine (National Review) with helping to build the modern conservative movement.  By contrast, the Birch Society despises Reagan, Gingrich, and Buckley!

            Readers familiar with the psychological concept of "projection" realize that Bontemps is actually describing his/her own position.  Bontemps and Birchers have identical thought processes.

            ALL political extremists (left wing or right wing) seek out targets of opportunity to exploit.  The most productive time for extremists is during times of economic, political, or social distress because it is during such times that  political extremists have the best circumstances to seduce their target audience with their bizarre ideas and proposals.  

            But Bontemps prefers to create cartoon caricature villains...because, (like Birchers), Bontemps has nothing but contempt for anybody whose views diverge from the political preferences of Bontemps.

  •  More that qualifies as Bircher Madness (0+ / 0-)

    Sandy Hook Was A Government Conspiracy - The Infowars Video

    It doesn't take severe paranoia to fall for Bircher-style propaganda. Moderate paranoid personality disorder could get some people to hook up with parts of this mess:

    1.) There was a second shooter. Probably a government official, because witnesses say he was seated in the front of the car.
    2.) They claim the medical examiner's report is a lie.
    3.) They next claim that all the witnesses are hired actors.
    4.) They validate that the witnesses are actors on the basis of 'suspicious' behavior.
    5.) They use a terrible photo morphing to claim that Emilie Parker wasn't shot at Sandy Hook, but is seen later with President Obama.
    6.) They say that the 'parents' are actors hired from CrisisActors.com
    7.) Claims that FEMA was holding drills 20 minutes away in preparation for the tragedy so they could quickly respond.
    8.) Finally, they claim Victoria Soto's Facebook tribute was created days before she actually died.
    That is Bachmann/Beck/Limbaugh/JBS level crazy stuff.

    Just some of the personality traits and ignorance, all it takes to hook 'em. And getting hammered with it day after day.

    Sick stuff. Sick to push it trying to turn ordinary paranoids into delusional, cut-off crazies too.

    Shameful. And I feel for the Angry White Male paranoids, screwed in the head by this trash.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

    by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 08:08:24 PM PST

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