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A U.S. flag flies at half staff in front of the Reed Intermediate School in Newtown, Connecticut, following a shooting nearby at Sandy Hook Elementary School, December 14, 2012. A heavily armed gunman opened fire inside a Connecticut elementary school on
In the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre and the second anniversary of the Tucson mass shooting that killed six and seriously wounded 13, including Rep. Gabby Giffords, the gun lobby continues to kick and scream at any plan to strengthen gun laws.

Even with the National Rifle Association's favorability having dropped 10 points since the week before the NRA held a press conference to suggest putting armed guards in every school in the country—an idea supported by a mind-bogglingly high 41 percent of people, but opposed by 50 percent—the gun lobby group is going into its meetings with Vice President Joe Biden already planning a lobbying push in Congress to prevent passage of new laws, while major gun dealer Walmart agreed to meet with Biden after initially refusing, but is predictably concerned with maintaining its gun-related profits.

But lobbying Congress is mild stuff, and the gun lobby has further plans.

A coalition of groups, including the Second Amendment Foundation, Revolution PAC and Women Warriors PAC, among others, is organizing a Gun Appreciation Day two days before Obama’s inaugural address, calling for gun owners to turn “out en masse at gun stores, ranges and shows from coast to coast” on Jan. 19.
Meanwhile, after the Tucson Police Department held a gun buyback to commemorate the second anniversary of the mass shooting in that city, the NRA is arguing that destroying the guns would be against the law:
[Lobbyist and NRA board member Todd] Rathner says Arizona state law forces local governments to sell seized or abandoned property to the highest bidder.

"If property has been abandoned to the police, then they are required by ARS 12-945 to sell it to a federally licensed firearms dealer, and that's exactly what they should do," he says.

That way, Rathner says, the guns can be put back in circulation or given away.

The Tucson city attorney calls that a misreading of the law.

Councilman Kozachik says the guns aren't being abandoned; they're being turned in voluntarily.

Apparently, according to the NRA, gun owners should have no way to take their own guns out of circulation short of the long walk to the top of Mount Doom. Or maybe the NRA would oppose that, too. But handing your gun over to the police because you want there to be one less gun out there in private hands? Nuh uh. No way. Get those puppies back out on the street.

So, yes, when Politico notes that "expectations low for Joe Biden, NRA talks," that seems like a fair assessment of the situation.

Originally posted to Laura Clawson on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 06:51 AM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Mount Doom is a tool of the Fascist Government!!! (20+ / 0-)

    I am just waiting to see the defenders come up with an excuse for this one.

    You can't destroy guns that are legally given up because...  OH WAIT, I know, it will stimulate the local economy and help fund the police force, right?

    Because when those deadly weapons are back on the street, the police will need more funding to deal with the guns, necessitating them buying MORE guns to deal with the guns they sold back to dealers who had no way of knowing that the guns they were putting back on the street were illegal purchases, and really it's all the fault of people who don't buy guns to protect themselves and instead would take away the rights of gun owners to shoot bad guys because the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun which he'll get anyway so why not let anybody buy them is a good guy with a arsenal...

    PHEW...  I think I covered the arguments.  

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 07:05:38 AM PST

    •  dmw now I'm dizzy (4+ / 0-)

      But I do applaud your circular logic

      "People who see a contradiction between science and the bible don't really understand either." PvtJarHead

      by Tinfoil Hat on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 07:29:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Used guns have to be the enemy of new gun sales. (7+ / 0-)

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:48:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And that's the thing! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, Janet 707, msmacgyver

        The NRA is not only a public safety hazard, now they are also a hazard to their own business model!

        Manufacturing and selling new guns and ammo is what makes their overlords their money - the aftermarket used gun sales do nothing for them.  What idiots!

        It is really funny because I was wrestling with the idea of whether or not I would feel okay about government subsidized gun buy-back programs where the firearms are destroyed because I wondered if that would just give the manufacturers more business - because right now if you buy a firearm and then put it into the aftermarket, they don't get those sales in new firearms.  But I guess, if you say so NRA, we could probably get along fine in America without ever producing new guns and just go to an aftermarket model - how would that sound to you?

        •  I'll bet they're only in favor of forcing these (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Janet 707, inclusiveheart

          guns to go to the highest bidder if they're able to make money on this.  Otherwise, they'd be against it.

          I still believe their overwhelming goal is still profit and if they can't make money from it, they'll be against it.

          •  Of course they make money from (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shaharazade, ColoTim

            accessories and ammunition.  But I think that the point still is valid that aftermarket sales cut into their business model.  

            But the other thing that is totally ironic and upside down for the NRA here is that if the police started to resell guns that were surrendered to them, then the government would become a competitor to both the gun manufacturers and the gun shop owners.  Arguably, because the police are government controlled, far more restrictive terms of sales could be imposed on these aftermarket firearms including efforts to make them trackable; making the background checks very expansive; and making requirements that the buyers buy insurance and maintain licenses that would have to be transferred if the firearm were to be sold to someone else.

            My point essentially is that this NRA lawyer is moving into what could be very dangerous territory by putting the government in the position of becoming a gun sales operation if his objective is to keep firearms sales in the hands of private enterprise and out of the hands of any government controls.

            So I say again... What idiots!

    •  The guns were bought back with private (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, msmacgyver

      funds.  The gun nut doesn't have a leg to stand on.

      David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

      by PsychoSavannah on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:56:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just a few facts . . . (0+ / 0-)

      The young man who killed all those children at the school went to the school with the goal of killing 20 children.  That was what he wanted to do - kill 20 children.  He could have killed more children and of course he could certainly have killed fewer or no children.  But he wanted to kill 20 of them.

      He met his goal with the only tool that he could have used to do so. That is, a gun with the potential to fire as many times as he could without having to reload.   If he had not had that tool, say if he had instead had access only to a six-shooter, he would not have gone to the school that day.

      That's right.  I am saying that if the young man had been limited to only six shots without having to reload, all 20 children would be alive today.  The young man may have still killed his mother, of course.  And he could have possibly caused havoc elsewhere.  But to kill exactly 20 children, he needed the tool (gun and magazine) that he had.

      That simple.

      •  It would be nice if these were facts... (6+ / 0-)

        ...but Lanza reloaded his Bushmaster three times.  

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:22:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't know that (0+ / 0-)

          So, he came prepared to kill as many children as he could and still have enough to end his own life.

          When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

          by msmacgyver on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 11:59:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  He had enough ammo to wipe out the entire... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            msmacgyver, acnetj

  , according to the police. I was somewhat surprised that he didn't try to shoot it out with the cops when they arrived. If he was skilled at all (and I don't know if he was), he would have been a formidable foe for at least the first cops on the scene. Anybody who thinks a gun built on an AR-15 platform is too slow to qualify as an assault rifle is playing petty definitional games. This short video shows just how fast somebody can fire 250+ rounds.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 03:19:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Whoops! I forgot the link: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:


              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 03:20:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks (0+ / 0-)

                I'm not a gun person and don't know anyone who is.  It just isn't now and never has been a part of my life in any way, so even though I have questions about what I watched in the vid, I don't know how to frame them.

                My first impression is that reloading (or whatever it's called) appeared to be effortless.

                It also appears that the weapon is very light and has little recoil.  Lanza appeared to be a very slight young man and I did have trouble envisioning a kid doing a Rambo (my image of how these guys look).  

                When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

                by msmacgyver on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 03:46:10 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You've observed correctly ... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  ...The gun is an AR-15, the platform that formed the basis of the M-16, first used extensively in Vietnam nearly 50 years ago

                  The AR-15 requires you to squeeze the trigger for each shot, that is, "semi-automatic."

                  The M-16 is selective fire, which means you can fire it a single bullet at a time, move a lever to fire three-shot bursts, or move the lever to go to full "automatic." That means if you squeeze the trigger and hold it down the bullets will keep firing until the magazine is empty, the gun jams or you let up on the trigger.

                  What you are seeing in the video is a guy squeezing the trigger time after time as fast as he can (until near the end), emptying 20- and 30-round magazines. More than 250 rounds in less than 70 seconds.

                  You are right about the recoil. The gun was designed specifically to have low recoil. As far as slight young men using them, a lot of 18-to-20-year-olds went to Vietnam (and since then, elsewhere) where they were issued one of those.  

                  Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 04:39:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  This is the first explanation of (0+ / 0-)

                    "semi-automatic" that I have understood.  

                    For people like me who want to be engaged in the debate but lack personal or academic experience with guns and gun lingo, it is a very frustrating experience.

                    "Assault weapons" is another issue which confuses me.  Anything that doesn't look like a gun carried or used by Maverick looks like an assault weapon to me.

                    I knew several slight young men who went to Vietnam.

                    When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

                    by msmacgyver on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 05:00:04 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  I must have missed something. Where is your (0+ / 0-)

        information from that he wanted to kill exactly 20?

        •  He had the ability (0+ / 0-)

          The ability and the tool to kill many many more.  He stopped at 20.  Why did he stop?  My conclusion is that he decided that his mission was accomplished.  Otherwise, there would have been no reason not to continue.

          The other thing I am asserting as fact was that he would not have even have bothered going to a school if he could not have killed at least as many as he did.  A revolver would not have been satisfying - it simply would not have been as efficient.  Sure he could have shot up to six kids before reloading, but then he couldn't has shot each kid six or seven times each, assuring their demise.

          How do I know all this?  Because the gun used in this crime was invented for no other reason.  It is the purpose of this weapon to be able to kill (not shoot, but kill) as many people as possible without having to reload.  

          And the comment that he reloaded three times is beside the point.

  •  Guns are big business (26+ / 0-)

    Guns are big business.  Guns mean bi gprofits for the gun and ammo makers and distributors.  This is their bread and butter.  Of course, those making money from the sale of guns and ammo are not interested in seeing any sort of decline in their fortunes.

    Expecting the NRA to suggest there should be fewer guns is like expecting Exxon to tell us to use less petroleum.  Expecting the NRA to approve of restrictions on gun sales is like expecting Coca-Cola to agree with Bloomberg about limits to soft drink sizes.

    The gun industry will only help the gun industry; they do not care about American lives.  It is up to we the people to insist the gun makers stop endangering us.  And I thank you for your article working to do exactly that.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 07:10:20 AM PST

  •  same as it ever was (14+ / 0-)

    For once upon a time, slaveowners too bitterly clung to their "peculiar institution," even through decades of "dropping popularity."

    Just like, in concert with today's gunnies, slaveowners flourished the Constitution, as meat for the misery they inflicted upon fellow human beings.

    As today's gunnies smirk behind their Heller, so too did slaveowners sit fat and happy atop decisions like Dred Scott v Sandford (1857) 60 US 393.

    Too bad for slaveowners, too bad for gunnies: the Constitution is not some sacred document, inscribed and interpreted by deities without flaw.

    Evolving humans get that.

    As well as the little "keep and bear arms" ditty, the Constitution enshrined slavery. Slavery was wrong; gunnie-world is wrong. And so, all the guns are going to go. Just like slavery did.

    The NRA: these are gunnie deadenders, in their last throes.

    •  The NRA is proof of the wisdom of free speech. (7+ / 0-)

      Let the crazies talk long enough, and everyone who's rational will learn they're just not worth listening to.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:59:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't agree with your all guns are... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...going to go. But, even with Heller, there are plenty of new gun restrictions—ones that can make a difference in reducing gun violence—that can be enacted and meet constitutional muster.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:24:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  guns won't go (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueness, rocksout

      they're far too deeply embedded in society,

      positively spun by manipulated media, serving up a firestorm of venomous fervor among many willing to fight for their perverted concept of liberty

      and.... sadly- there's too much money involved.

      but- enjoyed your comment

      People who say they don't care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don't care what people think. -George Carlin

      by downtownLALife on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 01:00:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  they may be taking hits in national polling (15+ / 0-)

    but that is directly comparing pre-presser and post-presser.  and yes, lapierre did himself and his organization no favors there, but the PPP poll also tells us this:

    Only 41% of voters support the organization's proposal to put armed police officers in schools across the country
    i can't even believe it's double-digit, but 41% is not insignificant.  it's scary.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 07:12:43 AM PST

  •  As others have said (8+ / 0-)

    To understand the NRA, you have to understand what their actual purpose is now.
    The NRA is no longer an advocate for gun-owners, no longer an organization that seeks to serve the interests of people who own and enjoy firearms.
    The NRA is simply a lobby for the larger gun manufacturers. Their agenda is to get more guns and gun accessories sold. Period. The social impacts, public costs or popular sentiments (even among gun-owners) are irrelevant to this.
    Jason Linkins at Huffpo summed all this up much better than I can here:

    And in the light of what he says, the NRA's actions make completely sense, and are totally predictable.

    “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?” - Rumi

    by Jaxpagan on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 08:35:17 AM PST

  •  Want to drop support for armed guards in every.... (5+ / 0-)


    Just tell proponents that it will cost hundreds of billions and taxes would have to be raised on every household to pay for it.

    Bing - Zero support.

    Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

    by LiberalCanuck on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:43:42 AM PST

  •  It's not about protecting guns. (10+ / 0-)

    It's about protecting gun sales.  The guns are in no real danger.

    Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

    by Boundegar on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:44:01 AM PST

  •  As long as the Gun Lobby keeps allowing (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lyvwyr101, mungley, msmacgyver

    mouthbreathers like Wayne LePetomaine and Alex Jones Speak Rave and Rant for them Yeah for out side.

    As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

    by JML9999 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:44:02 AM PST

    •  I think that what is really tipping this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, poco

      is the ghoulish reaction by gun hoarders to the Newtown murders.

      It has happened before and it will happen again, but the increase in gun sales following this particular tragedy made normal, sane people ask, "What kind of person goes out and buys more guns after the slaughter of children?"

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 12:05:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seattle also has a gun buyback program. Linky (3+ / 0-)
  •  The NRA is not protecting guns . . . (6+ / 0-)

    They are protecting Gun Sales
    This is all about the gun and ammo manufacturers and protecting their bottom line.

    The nine most terrifying words in the english language . . . "I'm George Bush, we're here to liberate your country"

    by TiredOfGOPLies on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:46:12 AM PST

  •  Police are crazy (6+ / 0-)

    When my father passed in 2001 I went through his belongings and found an old Remington-Rand .45 automatic pistol that he was issued during WW-II.  I had no use for it so I tried to turn it in to the local police in Toms River NJ.  They literally didn't want it saying I should keep it and use it.  I tried again a few years later and got the same reaction.  It now rests in about 400 ft of the Atlantic Ocean.  If the cops won't help a citizen get rid of an unwanted gun, who will?

    •  I got stopped at a police roadblock in the (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orlbucfan, mungley, Laconic Lib, rocksout

      entrance of a dead-end apt complex while delivering pizzas one night.

      Cop asked me if I had a gun, which shocked me.

      "No", I said - "I don't have a gun".

      Cop said "you;re delivering pizzas? I'd have a fucking gun if I were you".

      I asked him if he was trying to set me up and he said no - that I was allowed to have a gun and I should carry one.

      I didn't have the heart - or the time - to tell him that with pizza in one hand and cokes in the other, I'm out of hands to hold my gun.

      So I invented the hat gun.

      Police are a 'gun culture' as are the FBI and the US Federal Government.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:55:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Your local pawn shop? n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

      by happymisanthropy on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:57:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think q5mojo wanted it to never be able to be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, shaharazade

        used, and a pawn shop would sell it where it could be used.

        400 feet down is too far down for a coral reef, but then again even Superstorm Sandy would have had problems bringing anything ashore that was 400 feet down so s/he probably achieved their goal.

  •  I like that gun law. (6+ / 0-)

    Not for guns, though.

    Recycled guns.....something about that doesn't seem right.

    The NRA is insane: put guns back in circulation as soon as people bought them off the street. It's not like guns break or wear out. They last for decades or longer. Putting them back on the street SHOULD be viewed as a threat to profits.

    I'd like to see marijuana put back on the street after it's been stolen by police. I think that WOULD be a fine program.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:47:55 AM PST

    •  Odd position of the NRA (4+ / 0-)

      I agree that it seems counter-intuitive for the NRA to want guns that have been voluntarily given up to be put back into circulation.  Better for manufacturers to sell new guns.  But perhaps the NRA is also protecting dealers that stand to make a profit on the resale of recycled guns.  Or maybe it's just the NRA general principle that the more proliferation of guns, the better.

      Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

      by winsock on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:56:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Apparently, the NRA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

    has gained 100,000 new members since the Sandy Hook  shootings.   That is a lot of people in a short time.  

  •  A "Gun Appreciation Day"? (15+ / 0-)

    I'm sorry, that's perverse. What, will they hand out bumper stickers that say "Have You Kissed Your Assault Rifle Today?"

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:51:22 AM PST

  •  Concert for Sandy Hook next Tuesday (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, ColoTim, mungley

    Come and join us next Tuesday 6PM - 10PM ET -- ten thousand gathering for a night of hope and healing.

    Link to Livestream available at:

    Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love.

    by Ed G on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:53:27 AM PST

  •  NRA is only part of the problem (5+ / 0-)

    Even here. our so-called progressive gun-fan faction refuses to entertain any notion that will result in fewer guns.  (Why they are allowed a voice here is beyond me)

    So how do we combat that attitude amongst non-NRA folk?  I don't think it's worth the time to argue with NRA members - they are beyond all reason and should be ignored.  They are a small segment of gun owners so I see no reason to give them a place at the table.  

    But we do need to reach out to the Gabby Gifford faction.  Those gun owners who recognize the need for stronger, more efficient regulations.

    Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore. John Prine -8.00,-5.79

    by Miss Blue on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:54:15 AM PST

  •  selling surplus guns (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, orlbucfan

    would drive down retail prices and hurt the manufacturers of new firearms.  

    "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

    by happymisanthropy on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:54:21 AM PST

  •  I Hope Vice President Biden Tells The NRA Where To (7+ / 0-)

    shove it - it's time for us law abiding non-gun nuts to flood the VP with letters/emails telling him NOT to buckle to any gun lobby pressure. And it's LONG past time for assault weapons and high capacity magazine clips to be PERMANENTLY banned. Permanent means just that - no "expiration provisions" in any gun control measures. In addition, I would like to see universal background checks on ALL gun purchases/trades, closing of the gun show loophole, and a nationwide effort by Progressive groups for divestment (by pension funds, 401k's, etc.) from gun and ammo manufacturers. In addition to laws, we need to hit these suckers in their wallets. I know Calpers (California State public employees retirement system) has already taken this step, and I would LOVE to see other public employee pension funds follow suit (especially teachers pension funds, since the Newtown massacre happened at a school). I would also like to see a nationwide gun buyback to get as many guns off the streets as possible. Gotta go - time for me to write VP Biden.

  •  This is a sickness. (4+ / 0-)

    An epidemic of the mind. And it should be treated with all the tools required to bring this nation back to health.

    They're not "assault weapons"; just call them "Freedom Sparklers".

    by MBNYC on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:55:01 AM PST

  •  I'll shorthand here to save time. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The NRA wants us all armed to the teeth, with full arsenals in our basements.  This is to protect ourselves against either the collapse of guvmint, or worse, the guvmint turning totalitarian and coming to subjugate us somehow.  End of story...

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:59:42 AM PST

  •  What part of "buyback" doesn't the NRA understand? (8+ / 0-)

    According to the linked article:

    The people who turned [guns] in got a $50 Safeway gift card for every gun — money donated by the grocery chain and by private contributors.
    So, yes, as the term "buyback" implies, the state is buying the guns it's melting.  No guns are being seized or abandoned.  ARS-12-945 is irrelevant.  

    Gee, the NRA is misrepresenting the law.  What a shock.

    "Corporations are not people. People have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they cry, they dance. They live, they love, and they die. And that matters." -- Elizabeth Warren

    by The Pseudorandom Cat on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 09:59:43 AM PST

  •  It's actually very much like (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    the folks that are opposed to women's health rights.  They are both playing the long game here, the VERY long game.  "Right to Life" folks don't really care whether they win or lose, only that they continue without ceasing to fight.  Their reward will be in heaven, not here.  God only cares that they don't stop, not necessarily that they succeed.  

    The gun nuts are just afraid of the government, and that's the basis for almost everything here...

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:06:49 AM PST

  •  Would someone tell me, one more time, (0+ / 0-)

    exactly how many violent video games did Charlie Manson and the Family view.

    Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

    by franklyn on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:09:28 AM PST

  •  It gets worse (4+ / 0-)

    check this story out, and watch the video clip at the bottom.

    This issue has revealed that there are a lot of very paranoid people out there who are as angry as they are selfish, and they really don't have any perspective.  

    The NRA has created a shitstorm.  But it is OK because that is capitalism.  Sells guns.  

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:10:50 AM PST

  •  I wonder if the Repub's would be fast and furious (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laconic Lib

    to check and see how many deaths occurred from recycled guns from the buy back program, that went back into circulation?  Just sayin...

  •  Here's what I want - a video animation (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orlbucfan, rocksout

    ...and I don't have the skills to do it.

    But ever since the Newtown tragedy, I've tried to imagine what it would have been like to be inside the school.  The media and law enforcement try to hide details in order to exercise political correctness, and (ostensibly) protect the memory of those killed and injured.

    I can't get the image that I've painted in my head of the horror and sadness of the event to be gone.  

    The one thing that would finally shock America into dealing with gun sanity would be a single leaked picture of the inside of Sandy Hook Elementary after police arrived.  One damn picture would be worth a million words.

    Barring that, some enterprising person could put an animated video together of what it was probably like (based on available descriptions and timelines) during and after the massacre.  Every American, pro and anti gun, needs to have the image of 20 babies being shot and slaughtered in cold blood in rapid succession seared into their brains forever.  What happened at the school is not abstract thing.

    I apologize in advance for the graphic nature of my comment or any trauma that my description may trigger.  But like I said, I can't get it out of my own head.

    I may end up turning my comment into a diary to better express my feelings...

    "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

    by Richard Cranium on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:15:32 AM PST

  •  Shorter NRA: guns have inviolable rights (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laconic Lib, shaharazade

    children, not so much.

    Barack Obama for President

    by looty on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:16:54 AM PST

  •  NRA = Votes (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The gun nuts represent an important political constituency for the Republican party, so we can expect the GOP to fight tooth and nail against any form of gun restrictions.  The party is essentially a cobbled-together patchwork of gun crazies, abortion fanatics, low-tax enthusiasts, and racists.  They can't afford to lose any one of those constituencies, because that would render them politically disadvantaged.

    How can we have a third party when we don't even have a second party?

    by Eagleye on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:16:59 AM PST

    •  Rachel Maddow had her lead piece yesterday (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      showing how NRA backed politicians (or the ones they opposed) were successful/or defeated less than one percent of the time in this last election.  They lost more than 99% of their campaigns!  Her piece showed the fear of the NRA in politics may be tremendously over-estimated.  

  •  Another NRA unforced error, a gun celebration! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, Laconic Lib, shaharazade

    Instead of hunkering down and strategizing how to let time make the Newtown publicity wane, and wait for people to get attracted to the Oscars, and Biden & Co. to conduct more meetings - yawn, ho hum, zzzzz - the NRA is actually calling for gun owners to go public, assemble, brandish their arms and ammo and their militia-boasting in-your-face signs!

    What a way to hype your advocacy! What's next, a shootout?

    2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

    by TRPChicago on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:22:37 AM PST

  •  Progressives: push the Overton window on guns (6+ / 0-)

    One problem is that while the NRA and other pro-gun organizations haven't stopped doing everything they can to promote guns and expand gun ownership, the progressive response has been to think of reasonable restrictions.

    Let Congress eventually hammer out a reasonable compromise--progressives need to be pushing the Overton window on guns as far towards an outright ban as is possible.

    In addition to the proposals to limit high capacity firearms, ideas that need to be seriously discussed include:

    • repeal the 2nd amendment
    • rigorous licensing procedure to be allowed to purchase guns or ammunition
    • single-user biometric locks on all guns
    • ballistics test performed for every gun, stored in publicly searchable database keyed to serial number
    • felony to alter gun ballistics without updating database
    • Nationwide, publicly searchable database of gun ownership linking gun serial numbers to owners
    • felony to posess unregistered guns
    • Enormous tax on ammunition
    • Each piece of ammunition coded with unique taggant, all ammunition registered at point of sale to purchaser and stored in publicly searchable database
    • Strict and expensive liability on the part of registered gun owner for any injury, death, or property damage caused by gun or ammunition registered to them
    • mandatory insurance for gun owners

    And I'm sure other users can come up with more. We don't expect to get everything we ask for, but we won't get anything we don't ask for.

    •  AGREE THM! We Have To Strike While The Iron Is Hot (0+ / 0-)

      the NRA is hoping that the public (with their short attention spans) will forget about the Newtown massacre and move on to other things, or get distracted by things like "mental health issues" etc. We Progressives need to push as HARD AS POSSIBLE NOW to get as much as we can in gun control restrictions. We can talk about mental health issues AFTER we get some sensible gun restriction legislation passed. My wish list includes a PERMANENT BAN on assault weapons and high capacity magazine clips, universal background checks in ALL states, closing the gun show loophole, restriction on the number of firearms that can be purchased within 30 days, a tax on ammunition, divestment of pension funds from investing in gun/ammo manufacturers. Let's go for it!!

    •  Excellent suggestions! (0+ / 0-)

      "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

      by rocksout on Fri Jan 11, 2013 at 08:30:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This NRA crap represents the worse (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, shaharazade

    of American hypocrisy in the eyes of the world. You can get a Saturday Night Special a helluva lot easier and cheaper than a homeless person can get a square meal.

    What  kind of morality/thinking is that?? Good diary.

    Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

    by orlbucfan on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 10:24:34 AM PST

  •  But "the Founding Fathers" were holy (3+ / 0-)

    Can we stop treating the so-called Founding Fathers as if they were deities. They were all men, many of whom owned slaves, none of whom could imagine that every word they wrote down would be accorded the sort of unbending reverence given to, your holy doctrine here....
    The gun nuts are screaming about how "the Founding Fathers never envisioned Executive Orders being issued to restrict" the Second Amendment. Right, and the "Founding Fathers" never envisioned that the "militia" would own arsenals of weaponry that could take out a small army. The Founding Fathers never envisioned that black people would be free and equal to white people. The Founding Fathers never envisioned that women would be allowed to vote.
    The Constitution is a living breathing document. It is not encased in stone, like the minds of the lunative fringe of the gun owners (which is only a minority of gun owners but, nonetheless, they are the only ones speaking right now).

  •  "That way the guns can be put back in circulation" (0+ / 0-)

    ... "or given away" ... to Mexican drug lords.

  •  There will be no progress (0+ / 0-)

    unless these idiots talking about or hinting at confiscation are muzzled.    No chance of winning any NRA converts with that and you also lose people who believe in the constitution.

  •  You can't shoot your way out of gun violence. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Yesterday in Portland (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laconic Lib, shaharazade

    two young (22) men walked around a residential neighborhood carrying rifles. Naturally there were calls to 911 - but the police couldn't do anything because they both have concealed carry permits, and therefore can carry any gun openly or concealed.  

    They apparently did the same thing earlier in the week, but it didn't make the news.

    Their reason:  they can.  One of the little asshats video tapes reactions and posts them on Youtube.

    •  what a couple of assholes (0+ / 0-)

      It may be legal to carry guns around but like the teabaggers at the town hall meetings it's threatening and intimidating. It freaks me out that the type of people who get off on their power to scare, threaten and bully people are often gun nuts.I may have the right to free speech but if I get a megaphone and walk around screaming in it on the streets the cops would most likely make me stop.  Jeeze, they shut down OWS for littering, and obstructing the sidewalks, why can't they stop people from this belligerent act of intimidation. I'd say this is certainly disturbing the peace. Of all the rights we have lost under the guise of 'security' why is the 2nd amendment so damn sacred. Pretty telling about where our fear and violence addicted society is at.    

  •  The Brady bill is not a new law. Pass that. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

    by mungley on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 11:18:06 AM PST

  •  Biden needs to tell the gun lobby to STFU (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't know what is the use of this meeting.  The NRA is just tone-deaf to public opinion and are doubling-down on their tired, old screeds about "the right to bear arms" and the 2nd Amendment - and, like the national GOP, are saying no to any form of weapons regulation.  

    Joe needs to open a can of whoop-ass on these obstinate people and tell them to get with the program, or get steamrolled.  

  •  Overturn 2nd Amendment (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RadGal70, rocksout

    Let them stamp their feet and wet themselves, but the time has come to remove guns from all Americans.  Those injured or killed each year continue to rise.  The sole purpose for a gun is to kill, nothing else.  

  •  I think this statement speaks volumes. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Pseudorandom Cat

    At the gun buyback, gun-rights advocates held signs reading "Cash For Guns" and "Pay Double for Your Guns." As cars pulled into the parking lot, they asked drivers if they wanted to sell their guns privately rather than turn them in. There were few takers.

    Doug Deahn couldn't understand it: "Can't figure they'd rather line up and give them away. Can't figure that out."

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Thu Jan 10, 2013 at 11:42:31 AM PST

  •  Guns=Freedom Crowd (0+ / 0-)

    There is a huge segment of the US population that really thinks guns=freedom.  They think the Constitution says that they are supposed to have guns to overthrow their tyrannical government.  They cannot seem to process the actual words in the Constitution.  They think their Glocks or AR 15s or .38s are what stands between the US of A and Communism.  They seem blissfully oblivious to the fact that the rest of the industrialized (and civilized) world lives quite freely and happily without armed kindergarten teachers.

    •  Yeah - And If The Government Actually Comes After (0+ / 0-)

      these gun nuts, do they really think their gun arsenal is going to "save them?" Our government uses unmanned drones to kill people now - if the government REALLY wanted to kill these idiots, an unmanned drone would do the trick before they could even reach for their handgun/rifle/assault weapon.

  •  its not "protecting guns", its about selling them (0+ / 0-)

    remember what the NRA is. Is a trade association, nothing more. it does two things for gun manufacturers: lobby against anything that might restrict gun/ammo sales, and whip up a constant seige mentality among gun enthusiasts in order to encourage them to buy more guns.

  •  NRA loses credibility daily and even among its (0+ / 0-)

    own members.  Good.

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