Skip to main content

With official public testimony, public testimonies at the time aired live in Britain and streamed live over the internet at same time, links within.

Tonight, 18 February 2013, MSNBC will air a documentary on the Iraq War, as we approach ten years after, and those who brought the extremely failed policy of the death, destruction and damage to National Security, rise in the al Qaeda style international criminal terrorism, to many not just our Nation, the no longer United States.

"Hubris": New Documentary Reexamines the Iraq War "Hoax"
Feb. 16, 2013 - An MSNBC film, hosted by Rachel Maddow and based on Michael Isikoff and David Corn's book, finds new evidence that Bush scammed the nation into war.  read more>>>

Visit for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

Rachel Maddow talks 'Hubris' with Ed Schultz and David Corn
Feb 16, 2013 - As Rachel emphasized in Friday's segment about John McCain's efforts at historical revisionism of the Iraq war, more important than accountability for the lies that started the war is making sure it doesn't happen again. Rachel spoke on that subject at greater length on The Ed Show tonight with David Corn, who co-authored the book upon which Monday night's documentary is based. read more>>>

Visit for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

While they will produce and show much, in a short televised documentary, to re-understand about how the Iraq invasion and occupation was sold to a gullible nation and world, Abandoning the Main Missions of why we even sent our Military into that region, after 9/11, along with the promises the Country made to the Afghan people, again, there is still much more others have sought out and some being placed in public testimony. That final report of that public testimony, not from within this country for we quickly walked away from any and all Accountability and left much on the table, but from the British, has been in delayed release for some time now, supposedly coming sometime this summer.

A few other countries, involved with sending their military's into Iraq in the coalition of the willing, have had much smaller Government Inquiries as well. One, Australia, has many within still seeking to cleanse their consciouses:

For democracy's sake, let's talk about our war in Iraq
An inquiry would help us avoid repeating mistakes made 10 years ago

February 14, 2013 - The largest anti-war demonstrations in Australian history began 10 years ago today

Millions of people protested worldwide, in about 800 cities - including in Australia, Britain, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, the United States, Canada, South Africa, Syria, India, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and even McMurdo Station in Antarctica.

In Melbourne more than 100,000 people protested. They clogged Swanston Street for more than three hours, stretching all the way from the State Library down to Federation Square, demanding Australia not follow US president George Bush into war, and that we must allow UN weapons inspectors to do their work.

Even though globally millions marched, their collective will was ignored, and a tragedy of monstrous proportions unfolded in Iraq.  read more>>>

The Long Delayed British Chilcot Iraq War Inquiry Official Report is due out, supposedly, sometime this summer. In it will be found references to the following or should, and much more, from the early public testimony given. I've used these, changed one as the old link is no longer there, a few times to point out what went on before, on and in the immediate days after 9/11. I can only guess as to why this final report has already been so late in coming. Either the information taken, especially behind closed doors, is so much more damaging they fear what might happen. Or time is being given to the political 'think tanks' to examine all the testimonies and more and have their spin ready to quickly explain away the, in the positive, their opposite side of the history.

24 November 2009 - Even before Bush's administration came to power an article written by his then national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, warned that "nothing will change" in Iraq until Saddam was gone


27 November 2009 - But there was a 'sea change' in attitude after the atrocities, with former national security adviser Condoleezza Rice targeting Iraq on the very day of the outrage.

30 November 2009 - George Bush tried to make a connection between Iraq and al-Qaida in a conversation with Tony Blair three days after the 9/11 attacks, according to Blair's foreign policy adviser of the time.

1 December 2009 - There was "a touching belief [in Washington] that we shouldn't worry so much about the aftermath because it was all going to be sweetness and light".

3 December 2009 - Boyce mentions the "dysfunctionalism" of Washington. He says that he would find himself briefing his American counterparts on what was happening in different parts of the US adminstration. Rumsfeld was not sharing information

The above came out, in public testimony, in the early days of the Inquiry, with more in each writeup about. Most of the hearings were about the British involvement, in the majority of the later days of hearings there were more sprinklings in the testimonies about what was happening in relation to the British government, their Military leaders and their counterparts in the America government and Military.

The Iraq Inquiry

In the above link, the site of the often called 'Chilcot Inquiry', you will find these
Written Transcripts by Date of each session.
Oral Evidence by Date
Witnesses who have given oral evidence in public
Declassified Documents

And more, we still have nothing on what went on behind closed doors and may or may not with the final report, if and when it's released.

There have been other inquiries, most notably in Britain on torture and deaths of Iraqi prisoners held by the Brit military in Iraq and Italy has held trials related to CIA actions and these wars and the so called war on terrorism.

'A new chapter': United States shuts down Iraq war

Nine years of conflict saw 4,488 Americans killed, 32,230 U.S. wounded and more than $800 billion spent
By the Numbers: 1.5 Million
Iraq Veterans: ‘National Day of Honor’ 19 March
OIF: Iraq, from Operation Iraqi Freedom to Operation New Dawn on Sept 1, 2010
December 20 2011 - Ceremony to Retire Iraq Mission Colors on U.S. Soil
Though many still haven't come home from our previous wars, Iraq is Really Now Officially Over,All are out, All are home!!

There had been 4,804 coalition deaths 4,488 Americans
2 Australians, 1 Azerbaijani, 179 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, 1 Czech, 7 Danes, 2 Dutch, 2 Estonians, 1 Fijian, 5 Georgians, 1 Hungarian, 33 Italians, 1 Kazakh, 1 South Korean, 3 Latvian, 22 Poles, 3 Romanians, 5 Salvadoran, 4 Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, 2 Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of January 2, 2012, according to a CNN and iCasulties count.

Graphical breakdown of casualties. At least 32,230 U.S. troops had been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon.

Iraq war ends with a $4 trillion IOU: 15 December 2011 - Veterans’ health care costs to rise sharply over the next 40 years
CNN Map U.S. and Coalition Iraq Casualties

Originally posted to DKos Military Veterans on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:01 AM PST.

Also republished by VAGV - Veterans Against Gun Violence, Military Community Members of Daily Kos, IGTNT Advisory Group, and Group W: Resisting War.

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (127+ / 0-)

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:01:24 AM PST

  •  “Iraq Full Circle” (22+ / 0-)

    Lewis-McChord Col. Darron Wright shares Iraq war's ugly, bad and good in memoir

    February 18, 2013 - America’s experience in Iraq was more like “The Ugly, the Bad and the Good,” he says.

    “Through no fault of our own, we were doing more to disrespect and alienate the population than we were to garner their support,” he writes. “Bottom line: We were figuring out this war on the fly.”  read more>>>

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:32:50 AM PST

  •  At Some Point (14+ / 0-)

    This country has to hold all those involved Accountable, that administration, those lingering around it, those in congress meeting with that administration, remember they were still legal also in insider trading on those no bid contracts as well as making the selling points of 'the product', and as well those in the media who quickly walked in lockstep with!!!

    Those at the end of our terror waged and the rest of the World wait still!!!

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:19:55 AM PST

    •  come on jim... (7+ / 0-)

      with all the money made by the military/industrial complex and spread around, there will never be an accounting for justice. thousands died, billions were made and the criminals walked away. obama will never address this issue as he's now complicit with the former admin and guilty of his own war crimes.
      tung sol

      There is a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.--Oscar Levant

      by tung sol on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:19:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So we should silence ourselves and just accept it? (6+ / 0-)


        Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

        by Simplify on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:24:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  did i say... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jimstaro, OleHippieChick

          that i accept that verdict? no, but if you look back over the last five years there has been no interest in doing this. personally i would like to see cheney, bush, rice et al hang for their crimes against humanity. i just don't see it happening.
          tung sol

          There is a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.--Oscar Levant

          by tung sol on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:40:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yes there will (5+ / 0-)

        But I certainly won't be around.

        Remember, I believe it was general Westmoreland not long back, about Vietnam and just think of the reports, after these started, that came out also about Vietnam.

        Full accounting, nawww, Inquiries into accountability, nawww, Lessons learned, probably not!

        Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

        by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:27:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think the reality we have to promote is (6+ / 0-)

        that the money is and was immaterial. People may hoard it; people may spend huge sums to buy mansions and gadgets other people built, but the money, when it is accumulated via unethical means should be depicted as an albatross around those people's necks, no matter how pretty it looks or good it smells. For that matter, the gated communities and secure enclaves in which they hide should be described as self-designed prisons, whose expense we are spared when they seclude themselves.
        What we should preclude is giving these people any kind of public platform or venue from which to spout additional lies. Let them be publicly shunned and let us shun those who would shower them with undeserved accolades.

        Money is a man-made artifact, worth nothing when nobody is willing to take it from unclean hands.

        Would I shake the hand of Donald Rumsfeld or Condi Rice or George W. Bush? Not on your life.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:46:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What little optimism I have left (4+ / 0-)

        I actually thought that the Brit Inquiry would have had many mining the testimony and hitting the web, at least, with reports etc. on it all. Especially what was coming out, in public for the first time, what was going on here between the Brits and their Counterparts.

        But alas, even with some reporting at the time, most here was but a whisper compared to the Brit press and most of the few books about came out there and not here. Even with this being mostly about what went on there, everything they said could be heightened as to here, that administration and their congresses were beating the drums louder and louder and the media here jumped onboard!

        Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

        by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:15:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Like we did with Vietnam? (4+ / 0-)

      Same as it ever was.

      In the Fox News Christian Nation, public schools won't teach sex education and evolution; instead they'll have an NRA sponsored Shots for Tots: Gunz in Schoolz program.

      by xynz on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:46:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Repeal of the AUMF is the number one thing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      we have to do, in my opinion. Authorization of Use of Military Force (AUMF) has become the basis for the multi-pronged foreign wars/domestic "enemization" of the our citizenry.

      Practically all the military expansion and drone murders into Africa and the Middle East, plus the revocation of the Bill of Rights, is using AUMF as the justification.

      End that, and the Perpetual State of War has no basis.

      While on the topic: it should be noted that the War Where it is Muslims who Keep Getting Killed has turned the Muslim world, and most of the rest of the world, against the US. Outside our beloved allies of Saudi Arabia of Qatar, there is no greater friend to the terrorists than the Pentagon.

      Obama, the US and the Muslim world: the animosity deepens
      ...Obama has presided over an America that, in many respects, is now even more unpopular in the Muslim world than it was under George Bush and Dick Cheney.

      That is simply a fact. Poll after poll has proven it. In July, 2011, the Washington Post reported: "The hope that the Arab world had not long ago put in the United States and President Obama has all but evaporated." Citing a poll of numerous Middle East countries that had just been released, the Post explained: "In most countries surveyed, favorable attitudes toward the United States dropped to levels lower than they were during the last year of the Bush administration."

      Pakistan now has 92% of its citizens disapproving of the US leadership. The entire world, including all Europe, (excluding the most effectively propagandized nation of earth and in history), rejects the drone bombings.

      Start with repealing, or declaring "mission accomplished" or whatever it takes to get the AUMF over and done with. In the meantime, stop the drone war abroad and the war/surveillance state on US citizens.

      We live in a nation where doctors destroy health; lawyers, justice; universities, knowledge; governments, freedom; the press, information; religion, morals; and our banks destroy the economy. -- Chris Hedges

      by Jim P on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:26:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Most of them (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, JBL55, elwior, Shippo1776

      Were around back then, rubber stamping so the boehner could get to his tee time the rest just don't work, and you can bet made huge sums off the still legal congressional insider trading. They were also the only ones that administration were inviting to the White House. Remember the Dems calling for hearings on a number of issues only to be, if held, pushed to the basement rooms and not a tepub would show!!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:19:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've republished this everywhere appropriate (18+ / 0-)

    If Rachel had been around following the Viet Nam War, I'm pretty sure there would be many fewer guys of my age suffering from PTSD. I'll be watching tonight.

    Thanks, Jim

    Those who fought the war in Afghanistan won it. Get them out of Afghanistan NOW . . . It's long past time. Those who want to wage the next war in Afghanistan are condemned to lose it.

    by llbear on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:22:49 AM PST

    •  Remember (5+ / 0-)

      The Country, collectively, said "we will never forget the lessons of Vietnam!"

      Whelp right from the first drum beat, abandoning the missions of why we even sent the military into that region, it was obvious not a damn lesson was learned! Not only in the public forum but also in the military, took them a couple of years to get to 'hearts and minds' as the 'we will be met with flowers from the population'! The flag waving, the magnetic ribbons, long gone, the lapel flag pins, the freedom fries and oh so many hollow words of support, still. And not a goddamn dime to pay for the wars but especially the long term results of, still!

      Iraq war ends with a $4 trillion IOU: 15 December 2011 - Veterans’ health care costs to rise sharply over the next 40 years
      Brought down from above!

      And what are we still arguing about as the rubber stampers dig the heels in deeper and deeper in obstructing and many are now, and have been, playing rovian revisionist history write!!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:59:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The country as a whole didn't learn (7+ / 0-)

        The 2004 presidential campaign was evidence for that. Even John Kerry didn't learn: he voted for an "authorization for the use of military force" and didn't insist upon a proper declaration of war vote. Obama didn't learn the lesson: he's only against "dumb wars," apparently not "smart" ones.

        The warmongers and profiteers learned plenty from Vietnam. No draft, borrow the money, discredit and even violently suppress independent journalism, and don't record your own conversations.

        It was the pair of questions I most wanted to ask of politicians in 2004: Do you think the USA was right to get militarily involved in Vietnam in the 1960s? Do you think we were right to leave in the 1970s? For most of them, the honest answers would be "yes" and "no." And so, come the next generation, we'll fight the same war again.

        Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

        by Simplify on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:38:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Unfortunately, (7+ / 0-)

    and sadly, because there has been no accountability for their lies and crimes, history will repeat itself.

    Protect children-- not guns.

    by rlharry on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:31:01 AM PST

    •  I agree (9+ / 0-)

      Ms  Madow asks if the US could again be fooled into war.  I think that we are in great danger of having a repeat because no one has been made to answer for the lies of the Iraq war.

      The best prevention against future politicians leading us wrongly to war is to make sure past misdeeds are fully prosecuted and those responsible made to answer for their lies and crimes.  Sadly this has not been done.

      Future politicans are likely to look back at the Iraq war, and the lesson they will learn is that there will be no consequences for those who falsely goad the nation into war.  Indeed, the Bush administration was rewarded with a second term.  Future politicians are likely to decide that lying about the need for war is a good way to get re-elected.

      Pres. Obama has failed us and our children in this regard.  In refusing to prosecute the lies of the Bush administration, he has increased the likelihood that we will hear those lies again from another generation of politicians.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:21:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  And once again... (16+ / 0-)

    The dirty hippies are proven right, the conservative "patriots" utterly, criminally wrong.

    In ten years, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will be seen in much the same light as Vietnam. An American disgrace, and deservedly so.

    But, of course, by then we will no doubt be embroiled in yet another senseless, illegal war, started in the name of god, by conservatives for only the best patriotic reasons.

    Rinse and repeat.

    •  This is of course possible, (4+ / 0-)

      and maybe even probable, but it's not inevitable. If we can oppose strongly enough, those who would drag us into a war against Iran, well before it happens, then it will not happen.

      I don't think it should be allowed to happen. Enough is enough.

    •  One Difference! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jimstaro, elwior

      Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans are still viewed positively.  If you were around in the 70's, you remember how Viet Nam vets were viewed.  I was in the army, but if I could travel, I tried to travel in civilian clothes - especially in airports.

      The one time that I was greeted in a friendly manner was in Monterrey California at a Jane Fonda, Don Sutherland United Front Operation.  Of course, that was an anti-War rally, and they greeted the soldiers better than any other place.  

      "Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" Will Rogers offering advice to the Republican Party.

      by NM Ray on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:22:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  And of course (11+ / 0-)

    there were hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, many more wounded, some 4 million displaced, people's livelihoods wrecked, the environment poisoned... The USA should pay reparations to the Iraqi people.

    Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

    by Simplify on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:47:39 AM PST

  •  First, Excellent Post, Next... (6+ / 0-)

    I can only hope that "Hubris" will be more than just a TV show that will be forgotten about soon after America finishes its Tuesday morning coffee.  I hope it will be the spark that leads to a fire storm of media attention (far beyond MSNBC) and cause the White House to at least rethink and revisit the matter.  I hope that it, in combination with the Summer release of the British Report, will lead to a real Justice Department investigation and indictments of the criminals in the former Executive Branch who deceived a nation into an "unnecessary war" that cost us much in blood and treasure.

    While I have HOPE, I also have to be realistic.  The vast majority of the media back then either aided the Executive Deceivers by publishing their opinions and conjectures as fact while bashing and engaging in character assassination against anyone questioning their theories, or more often, by simply failing to seek out and report the facts as is their publicly entrusted duty.  Therefore, any media re-investigation cannot be done with a straight face without the media having to confront their own failings which they are likely reluctant to do.

    Also, I don't think its likely that the President will interested in reopening the matter, with all the real (guns and climate) and Republican conjured up (sequester and budget) crisis facing the nation right now.  He would also have to "look back" instead of "looking forward" which he announced at the very beginning as something he was not interested in doing (one of my few criticisms I have of President Obama).

    Still, its not unrealistic to hope for justice, since the revelations may be explosive enough to blow through any wall of intransigence.  Let's HOPE!  

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:00:54 AM PST

    •  What with All the Tragedies (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native, cotterperson, elwior

      That Iraq brought, especially on the people of, and dome 'In Our Names!'

      spark that leads to a fire storm of media attention (far beyond MSNBC)
      One added to the many was the fact that the media, walking in lockstep, pushed out the 'real journalist', some well known and followed, who better then understand their profession and are dedicated to that understanding. They ended up, thankfully we have this technology or they would never have been heard of again, online and for the most part speaking to the choir. Some who did stellar investigative journalism, many reports never saw much outside of online forums, actually forced the rest of the media to not only pay attention but report widely.

      I'm gonna guess that some of those will be seen and heard this week at least, and maybe into next, until the teabags foxbots change the meme's to the irrelevant, many irrelevant's even with the cons of DC out of town!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:10:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe this year will be the turning point. (16+ / 0-)

    I'm not in a rage about the Obama administration letting this slide.  I understand the people who are, and sympathize, but without a huge wave of public support that dog won't hunt.  I give you gun laws as an object lesson on this, with a side of climate change.  

    If enough citizens support change, change comes.  It amazes me that so few political activists really seem to get how this country works.  The resistance to change is in the populace, if they're not on board it fails.  

    People were desperate during the Great Depression and even then there was huge resistance to government spending and government run programs.  So much so that FDR backed down on Round Two.  We see the success of SS now and don't know how fierce the fight was back then.  

    If we want prosecutions it's on us to spread the word.  This is MSNBC, the people we need to motivate and educate aren't cable junkies.  They see local news and hear everything else by rumor and hearsay.  I have acquaintances who believe that Dems in the Senate are blocking jobs bills from the House.  They aren't stupid, they're uninformed.  

    We know how pervasive propaganda is.  When are we going to mobilize and educate?  Blogging isn't enough.  Talking is the only answer, and it's hard to do.  Facing a person and engaging him is toughest.  It's the men who are hardest to reach, women with facts are a threat or something.

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:20:52 AM PST

    •  It's Up (7+ / 0-)

      To the people, sure Obama was elected but he isn't a little dictator, like the cheney and his puppet were, and the people, including the pro peace coalitions, instantly turned away from any accountability and everything became not left to clean up but as if Obama had started it all, just what tepubs wanted!

      He's leading as CiC the way those still being sent into Afghanistan want him to, as the people also left everything used by the bush admin on the table, the gradual drawdown of the forgotten already war, trying to accomplish at least a small fraction of those long ago abandoned missions and promises this country made to the Afghans, again. And trying to do the almost impossible, repair at least some of the huge damage done to our National Security and with the others, friends and allies, the same damage done to theirs!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:37:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think it's likely that anyone (8+ / 0-)

      will be held legally accountable for the Iraq fiasco. On the other hand, it is possible that we can stop the warmongers from attacking Iran.

      Many Americans, not just those of us on the Left, are sick and tired of fighting these useless, expensive, bloody wars. I think if the MIC tries to start another one, they'll run into public opposition much stiffer than what they faced in '03. And we are far better organized than we were then.

      One thing for sure -- we should NOT be counting on Obama to keep us out of future wars. It's not clear that he would be able to do that, even if he wanted to. He needs us to stop that from happening.

      •  Excellent point. We're the people, we have far (6+ / 0-)

        more clout than we think.  2012 should have made that clearer to all of us.  I get really impatient with the litany of reasons things will never change- press, Republicans, the monied elite.  Nonsense.  We've always had a media controlled by the wealthy, with a few progressive outliers.  In 1932 a friend hurt my mom's feelings by repeating this "A Republican is one who can't fully enjoy a sumptuous banquet unless he knows with certainty that somewhere, someone is hungry." (Mom was 8, her dad was active in the Republican Party, she told me the story 70 years later.) We see the Republicans exactly the same, 80+ years later.  We're in a newer Gilded Age, which is exactly the same inequality that has existed in most cultures over most of history.  

        The power is still in our hands if we're willing to grab hold and fight.  Remember, the first wave of union organizers didn't just get fired, they got their heads busted with ax handles, they got shot, their families were threatened.  Do we have what it takes to fight that hard? If not we are complicit in our own exploitation.

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:46:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  October 2002. I was in Las Vegas, talking with (15+ / 0-)

    a very nice women at a nice bar. The chat went for while. Her ex, kids, etc. We started talking about the run-up to a possible war in Iraq. She said, "we're going in after the first of the year". I said "Well there's still a change that the weapons insprctors, world opinion, sentiment here, etc, could head it off."
         She looked at me like I had two heads. "We're invading next year." I expressed my disbelief and she said "Look, I dislike my ex, but he's special forces, he's told me to prepare the kids for the worst. The decision has been made." When I expressed scepticism, she said "Just remember what I told you when we invade them next year."
         I have never forgotten.

    The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it."

    by Hillbilly Dem on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:42:18 AM PST

  •  Shouldn't we be talking about Benghazi instead? (7+ / 0-)

    Ok that was snark. Still waiting for republican outrage over the unnecessary Iraq war. Still waiting...

    "Let's stay together"--Rev. Al Green and President Obama

    by collardgreens on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:48:11 AM PST

    •  You've hit on something awesome (6+ / 0-)

      We should hang them with this Benghazi shit.  What better way than to compare and contrast the consequences with those of the criminal invasion and occupation of Iraq!

    •  Yes, let's talk about Benghazi (0+ / 0-)

      Remember General Petraeus who commanded the multinational force fighting the Iraq War? The same guy whose master thesis at Princeton was "The American military and the lessons of Vietnam"...

      Well the same woman he was cheating with, Paula Broadwell publicly claimed in October the Benghazi attack was retribution for "enhanced" interrogations of Libyans by the CIA, or perhaps even an attempt to jailbreak Libyans still being held.

      Turning the Benghazi consulate into a secret CIA rendition site was enabled by the AUMF which suspended our usual military code, our international treaties, and our Constitution in the way we handle detainees and suspects.

      So, full circle and head up ass - we should indeed be discussing Benghazi, asking Republicans why they aren't attacking Obama for continuing the secret renditions that only lead to anti-American blowback.

  •  Selling the GWOT and Humanitarian (9+ / 0-)

    interventions.  It's hard to hold our own government accountable for past actions when it continues with the same actions elsewhere.  People seem to think the Iraq war is the only illegal, immoral war and ignore what is happening around the globe with the GWOT and regime change operations in Syria and Libya.  Talk about selling a war, the GWOT is one of the top sellers of all time, set to go for decades at the top of the pop charts.  Or until we get another republican president.  

    "The Global War OF Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:21:37 AM PST

    •  Not many recs for this, (5+ / 0-)

      but it's a top comment just the same.

    •  Well (3+ / 0-)

      You're right, especially when those fighting hard to just as quickly pick up the tea buckets and carry them for the guilty. The almost in unison pro peace movement as to the whole flock of the guilty and pointing the fingers at the new incoming and continue that to today and will beyond!!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:35:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The AUFM (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, BigAlinWashSt

      based and sold on lies, propaganda and fear is the origin of all the twisty legal justification used by this Democratic administration to this day. It has enabled all the odious legislation  like NDAA, the new Partiot Act with the super secret sauce, FISA, NRA,  der Homeland Security. Why did Obama appoint one of the 'architect's the Bushies endless war on terror as head of the Spooks? This administration has built on the AUFM and expanded the GWOT, even declared under it auspices that the world is now the battleground and the enemy is anyone anywhere who is declared a terrorist.

      Our government all of it R's and D's alike have created on the base of the AUFM  the security state here and  and unleashed the MIC and CIA in a endless global non nation state war. Obama talked about 'smart wars' when he campaigned and yet... we now have eternal warfare fought against any humans who threaten us preemptively (pre criminal) based on the authorization given to the MIC. Nothing smart about any of this on any level.

      Thanks Al as people seem unwilling to connect what is going on in a Democratic administration to the original architects both Democratic and Republican that enacted and set in motion the immoral illegal endless war that used 9/11 to authorize this madness and crimanality. They didn't prosecute the war criminals or repair the damage to universal law and human and civil rights both here and globally instead they built on it. They used the power grabbed by the Bushies and expanded it.                  

      •  You All (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        used by this Democratic administration to this day
        Left everything on the table and quickly walked away, carry the tea buckets, any and all accountability!!

        Don't just lay this on the administration, we are the government, unless of course you miss the cheney/bush style!!!!

        Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

        by jimstaro on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:02:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hey I marched against the war (0+ / 0-)

          wrote letters to my Democratic reps, worked grassroots for liberal candidates and took to the Internet and dkos to fight against this slide into the dark. I worked for Dean and was anti-war including Afghanistan. I saw terrorism as blow back form our anti-human anti democratic foriegn policy.  

          As for 'we are the government' we no longer have any choice as the electoral system is as broken as the rest of our government. I participated in OWS and will no longer vote for the best of the same evil. I became politically active in the Democratic party in 2000 as I was horrified by the RW bushies.  I was requited by a Green after the selection of Bush to join the Democrat's. She said we need to undo this RW coup and form left coalitions within  the Democratic party.    

          Now I know after a decade of this bs. political kabuki that it was a by-partisan coup. None of us are the government any more, all we get to do is ratify which criminal enterprise we prefer Goldman Sachs or Bain? Hillary, who is a bad ass bomb Iran fan or Obama who at least during the primary talked diplomacy. Once he voted for FISA I quit his campaign as it just wasn't a vote I could support.  I still voted for him, look at our choice. Like I said, we no longer vote for representation or even decent lawful governance. Our consent is extorted.

          So don't give me or my liberal neighbors, family crap and blame. Nancy took the prescribed remedy off the table and I'm no fan or supporter of the Third Way endless warrior Dems who own the Democratic party. I certainly knew they were complicit during the Bush regime and along with many people here and in the real world, did what we could to stop the by-partisan slide to the Dark Side. I'm not even a Rachael fan as she is far too much a partisan to connect the dots that lead to the Democratic implementation of the bogus GWOT. She catapults the propaganda for the status quo third Way Dems.

          You tell me the blame lies with 'we the people' when the reality is we have no choice? I campaigned for Kerry and the young un's in my district would say Coke or Pepsi forget it. They were right and time has showed this was true. I think that people were sick of Bush Cheney they went too far so they voted for audacious bottom up Change. They took the Obama bait and instead got the by-partisan corporate, endless unitary powered war, along with the viscous neoliberal/neocon NWO.


  •  The legacy continues (5+ / 0-)

    We just aren't getting men killed as fast right now, but the evil War on (some) Terror continues.

    ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

    by gjohnsit on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:46:10 AM PST

    •  Agree, Dem leaders have embraced it (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jimstaro, gjohnsit, shaharazade, elwior

      against their own better judgement.  They've even ceded critical ground on torture, spying on Americans and other messy issues.

      Now that these wars are losing popularity with the public, it's disgusting to see both parties continue to try to gin up enthusiasm for them and justify the corruption and lies that led to them.

      Like Wall Street corruption, theft from taxpayers and the never ending Great Recession, I'll not look forward to explaining this to my grandchildren.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:49:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Mr. L & I were among many ... (10+ / 0-)

    ... who were telling everyone we knew before the 2000 selection: please, don't vote for Bush/Cheney because they will take us to war in Iraq.  Only a handful did not dismiss us.

    Oh, no, we were told: we must be paranoid.  When we tried to direct them to the PNAC web site, we were told that everyone has a right to an opinion and PNAC's goals meant nothing.

    On 9/11, after we figured out Plans A, B, C & D for the next few days (I was working on a contract in Boston three hours from home), we wondered how long it would take before the Cheney maladministration found a way to pin it on Iraq.

    And of course they were working on that the very same day.

    The whole run-up to war we knew they were full of shite, and we wrote letters & made phone calls to our congress critters, but we were just a couple of ordinary people not privy  to the kind of classified information to which the NSA and the Congression & Senate intelligence committees had access, so what did we know?

    We will watch Rachel's show tonight, but my stomach is already in a sickened knot remembering how frustrated we were at our inability to make any kind of difference for all that time.

    No doubt we'll learn even more BS reasons why this horrible thing happened, and we won't feel any better about it.

    "The fears of one class of men are not the measure of the rights of another." ~ George Bancroft (1800-1891)

    by JBL55 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:02:00 AM PST

  •  There's still hell to pay (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Notreadytobenice, jimstaro, elwior

    And sooner or later Dick Cheney and the rest of them will start paying it.

  •  Not our finest hour (5+ / 0-)

    The pressure our Dem leaders and the news media placed on Dems in Congress who protested the buildup to Iraq was disgraceful and unforgivable.  

    We expect the GOP to behave this way, but we should never accept the failure of our own leaders to stop it.

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:46:38 AM PST

  •  We really should have a moment of silence... (4+ / 0-)

    ...on the 10th anniversary of Shock and Awe.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:14:56 AM PST

  •  I hope the report goes after the press, too. (5+ / 0-)

    Including NBC and a stupidly grinning Tim Russert listening to Cheney's lies.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:32:06 AM PST

  •  I still have the "No Iraq War" sign i carried (5+ / 0-)

    in protest.  We did protest and I'm glad that's shown in this documentary.

    "Maintaining a robust public health infrastructure will be critical to managing the potential health impacts of climate change." NCADAC Draft Climate Assessment Report January 11, 2013

    by politik on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:53:51 AM PST

  •  The neocon organized crime cabal (6+ / 0-)

    ..aren't doing hard-time for crimes against humanity - They're making big-bucks on the speaking circuit and sagely pontificating on the Sunday Gasbag programs.

    It's getting pretty hard to take this "democracy" and "justice" thing seriously.

    I hope Maddow knocks it out of the park. I know that putting the program together was important to her, and she does have some journalistic chops.

  •  Dick Cheney - Dick Nixon (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, jimstaro, elwior, Notreadytobenice

    These two will always be the faces of American War Criminals!  There are no excuses for the lies, the profits, the war dead caused by these TWO!  

    Dick Cheney - may he rot in hell.  I hope there's a Hell reserved just for him!  There is no more despicable person and it is hard to believe that the Republican Party put him on a National Ticket in two consecutive elections.

    W was just  stupid.

    "Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" Will Rogers offering advice to the Republican Party.

    by NM Ray on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:26:36 PM PST

    •  Unconcerned with consequences (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OleHippieChick, Notreadytobenice

      I have a couple of good friends who were acquainted with George at Andover and in West Texas.  Their descriptions are remarkably consistent: arrogant, uncurious, a bully, whose nickname was "the Lip" for the perpetual sneer he used to express his view towards his fellows (and the kids at Andover were all sons of the elite).  However, both tell me that it would be a mistake to view him as stupid.  When he cared about something, his brain worked just fine, they say.  I think that we can conclude that mostly, George W. Bush just did not care, then or when he was in the Oval Office.

  •  the Dems weren't exactly leading the opposition, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    as I recall.  The Dem leadership was all gaga over the war--they argued NOT that Dubya shouldn't have started the war, but that the Dems could run the war better than Dubya was.  Right up until Ned Lamont shocked the party by winning his primary.

    A diary I did seven years ago that still needs to be remembered today:

    "Let's take a look at what the Dems were saying about Iraq BEFORE the results of the 2006 elections dragged them, kicking and screaming and fighting all the way, into an antiwar stance . . ."

  •  Thrilled to see MSNBC doing this documentary. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's about time!

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:11:20 PM PST

  •  Just finished watching the MSNBC special... (0+ / 0-)

    They had all the disgusting suspects; how the media failed us.
    Starts with Gulf of Tonkin lies and 40 years later again.
    One note was Congress repealed the Tonkin resolution 9 years later. Not in the cards for the IRAQ resolution.

    May their names be stricken from the hall of records.
    May their families be shamed.

    A very good job by MSNBC.

  •  Dmaddow Unchained (0+ / 0-)

    I have opined that Maddow is leading this charge, using her post-election ratings spike and new contract to break the media whitewash of Iraq WMD.

    She may have sold this to her executive bosses by saying we need to prevent another war of choice being sold to the masses. But all the buzz online is about prosecuting these guys for war crimes.

    Check out this scathing lead-in to the special, it might be more pointed than anything in the documentary itself...

Bob Johnson, Mimikatz, ROGNM, Bill in Portland Maine, BOHICA, teacherken, native, Gooserock, TechBob, just another vet, cotterperson, Mnemosyne, TX Unmuzzled, xynz, Sandy on Signal, frisco, gjohnsit, Caneel, Doctor Who, TheMomCat, afox, annrose, farmerhunt, Lilyvt, Texknight, psnyder, TexDem, rlharry, Brian82, zerelda, randallt, Steven D, sawgrass727, Gowrie Gal, ewan husarmee, Skennet Boch, ExStr8, caul, sc kitty, Gary Norton, ratzo, Sun Tzu, Burned, most peculiar mama, bjedward, Over the Edge, Jim P, Mother Mags, poco, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, Kingsmeg, cybersaur, BlueInARedState, Gorette, cookseytalbott, raincrow, Libby Shaw, Bush Bites, JVolvo, llbear, thenekkidtruth, Helpless, Stripe, bstotts, One Pissed Off Liberal, out of left field, Cronesense, ninkasi23, devis1, daveygodigaditch, artisan, SeaTurtle, jnhobbs, Bridge Master, uciguy30, Timmethy, leonard145b, Don midwest, scooter in brooklyn, Sixty Something, elwior, mmgth, Laughing Vergil, here4tehbeer, tofumagoo, catly, No Exit, glendaw271, petulans, Notreadytobenice, tristan57, JBL55, WakeUpNeo, mkor7, collardgreens, politik, secret38b, jakedog42, 2questions, Eddie L, peacearena, Yasuragi, Betty Pinson, kenwards, ericlewis0, Onomastic, kerflooey, I love OCD, implicate order, thomask, sound of progress, poliwrangler, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, Azazello, orpurple, AnnieR, Deep Texan, Dave in AZ, rivercard, New Minas, wasatch, Wonton Tom, countwebb, The grouch, argomd, Thornrose, Smoh, Kombema, The Marti, julesrules39, Tom Lum Forest, dannyboy1, OldSoldier99, dream weaver

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site