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On the paradise island of Maldives, where tourists delight in beaches, sex, and rose petal bungalow beds with breathtaking views, a 15 year-old girl was arrested after years of sexual abuse Police discovered a dead newborn buried in an outdoor shower. The girl’s stepfather had been raping her for years. Her mother ignored the cries of her daugthter. When the girl became pregnant as a result of rape, they pulled her out of school and waited out the nine months, then killed and buried the newborn after delivery. The stepfather was arrested and charged with pre-meditated murder, child sexual abuse of and possession of pornographic materials. The mother, also arrested faces charges for concealing the alleged sexual offenses.

While most would assume the 15-year old girl would be put into child protective custody and receive immediate counseling and support, the girl was arrested, interrogated and charged with fornication. Authorities claimed during her 'interrogation', she confessed to having consensual sex with another man. She was sentenced to a pucblc flogging of 100 lashes and eight months of house arrest. The identity of this other man, or whether he was charged, is not known. And it might not matter.

In Maldvian Sharia-Common Law, in cases of fornication, 90 percent of those flogged, are women.

U.N. Human Rights Chief, Navi Pillay called for a moratorium on corporal punishment.
“This practice constitutes one of the most inhumane and degrading forms of violence against women, and should have no place in the legal framework of a democratic country,” said Pillay.
Pillay’s statement of concern was met with outrage from the opposition and religious Adhaalath party, giving rise to protests and demonstrations. The Foreign Ministry itself dismissed the calls for discussion on the issue, stating:
“There is nothing to debate about in a matter clearly stated in the religion of Islam. No one can argue with God.”
A petition was started on the website Avaaz.org, and now has over 2 million signatures.There is also a worldwide campaign launched called Unite Against Rape to support rape victims/survivors and open the discussion of rape, in hopes of finding solutions to this ancient, horrendous crime.

Originally posted to Leslie Salzillo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 05:55 PM PDT.

Also republished by Sluts and Street Prophets .

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Comment Preferences

  •  Signed! (21+ / 0-)

    Thank you for this important story, Leslie.

    My heart goes out to this child.

    First raped for years, & now to be lashed 100 times.

    Interesting how similar these religious authorities sound to our religious authorities: "God has spoken."

    What they mean is a book written by a MAN tells them what should be done to women.

    WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

    by JayRaye on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:04:23 PM PDT

    •  Which of "our religious authorities" administer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Be Skeptical

      a penal code wherein lashes are a prescribed punishment?

      •  Do you think for a moment that they wouldn't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayRaye

        had they not been stripped of their political and legal authority by our secular government?  They only stopped things like that because they weren't allowed to make and enforce the rules anymore.  Our founders pulled their teeth because religion is seldom able to resist torture and murder to promote faith when it has the power to do so with impunity.

        You seem to think they've evolved, and if we're speaking strictly of the majority of the laity, I would agree.  Speaking of religions as organizations, however, I think we'd better keep them toothless, just in case.

        "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

        by quillsinister on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 08:00:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So the answer is: none. n/t (0+ / 0-)
          •  Do you want to talk not-so-distant history? (0+ / 0-)

            If so, the list is extensive.  Even in America there is a long tale written in blood of the appeasement of gods.  That is why, in these more civilized times, we prevent religious organizations from making the rules.  We've learned the hard way that people whose worldview is based on phantasmagoria seem to have an uncanny knack for turning to murder and other sundry unpleasantries to get their way.

            Think of it like one of those commercials for dandruff shampoo.  One man is complaining about religious zealots running amok in his country and the other man suggests that he try a secular shampoo based on Enlightenment principles like reason.  The first man says, surprised, "But Joe, you don't suffer from religious zealots running amok."  The other man replies with a smug grin, "Exactly, Bob."

            So, yes, the answer is none at present.  But this is not because of the advanced wisdom of (to paraphrase your original question) the religious authorities who administer our penal code, but rather because religious authorities don't administer our penal code.  Is that a bit clearer now?

            "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

            by quillsinister on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 11:43:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Here is the similarity: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Leslie Salzillo

        "God has spoken."

        What they mean is a book written by a MAN tells them what should be done to women.

        WE NEVER FORGET For March: Francis Estep, UMWA Martyr

        by JayRaye on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 01:18:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is where some of the victim-blamers (15+ / 0-)

    in this country would LOVE to go.

    Barbaric.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:09:47 PM PDT

  •  ... (11+ / 0-)

    http://minivannews.com/...

    Comment: Maldivian leaders must act now to protect women, girls and the country’s reputation
    By Ricken Patel | April 6th, 2013
    Comment: Maldivian leaders must act now to protect women, girls and the country’s reputation thumbnail

    In the last two weeks, nearly two million people across the world - including many people in the Maldives – have reacted in horror to the tragic story of a 15-year-old rape victim sentenced to be publicly flogged.

    Sadly, this terrible case highlights a wider injustice: the yawning gap between the punishments applied to men and women in the Maldives.

    A 2007 study by the Maldivian government’s own Ministry of Gender and Family showed that as many as one in three women between the ages of 15 and 49 have suffered either physical or sexual abuse. And fornication requires both a man and a woman, but 90% of those sentenced to flogging in the Maldives in 2011 were women.

    Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11

    by indycam on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:10:38 PM PDT

  •  !00 lashes? (8+ / 0-)

    That's just permanently disfiguring for her, she'll live.

    Under Sharia law gays get executed. Course, they kill women too for straight sex, soI guess I shouldn't feel too special.

    Sharia is hate, it is slavery, and we should say it loudly.

    And of course I signed it.

     

    I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

    by heybuddy on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 06:40:55 PM PDT

    •  Think that we may sometimes laugh a little (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jabney, Be Skeptical, valion

      too hard a our friends on the right when they pass laws forbidding the promotion of sharia law?

      If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

      by MikePhoenix on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 08:54:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Leslie Salzillo, Be Skeptical

        We confused being against islamo-phobia with showing respect for Sharia.

        Sharia Law is bad. It's thousands of times worse than the worst christian church. Even westboro baptist freaks, (I can't believe I'm saying this) only hold signs and make asses of themselves. Sharia law freaks - that's some sick shit. You know the men - brothers, father, cousins... all gang rape a girl if she gets raped, or is found alone with a non-relative. It restores their honor somehow in sharia, to rape the hell out of their girls for getting raped. They only hang the gays, so I guess we are sort of privileged compared to women, but.

        I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

        by heybuddy on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:04:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The photograph... (3+ / 0-)

    ...is it from a real public lashing or a movie scene?

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 07:09:18 PM PDT

    •  The photo is attached to many different Web pages (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zenox

      and goes back to at least 2009, as can be seen here. I think the lack of a citation for it is at best a significant faux pas on the diarist's part.

      Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

      by Nowhere Man on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 08:09:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not sure. It was the photo that caught my eye. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MeToo

      And it's used on many sites for this story, but obviously it's not the young girl in reference, for she has only been sentenced, thus far.  I haven't been able to find the credit yet. If I can't find one, I'll replace it.

      In the face of darkness - be the light.

      by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 08:12:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is the photo used on the petition site (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Leslie Salzillo, OleHippieChick

        http://www.avaaz.org/...

        Spend a moment there everyone and sign a few more... there is so much suffering. And yes, State Departments worldwide should be shouting about human rights.

        The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. Paul Cezanne

        by MeToo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 09:36:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The question is if the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical

          ..photo is reflecting a real event or a scene from a movie. There are certain "anti-Islam" groups that use scenes from movies to trigger negative emotions against Islam.

          That does not mean what happened in Maldives is not real and that religious laws interpreted by fanatic extremists are not horrendeus especially when it comes to patriarchi.

          The photo however is manipulative if not a shot of a real event.

          "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

          by zenox on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 03:04:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I removed the original photo from the diary. (4+ / 0-)

            I removed it because I could not find an actual credit, and because it seemed to disturb several people here. I understand the sentiment, I do.

            I have replaced it with my own painting, which was inspired after watching the Stoning of Soraya M. It's called, The Rising of Soraya M. (What Does That Make Her)' and it depicts the rising of Soraya's spirit and the spirit of women and their rights around the world. If you look close you will see an image of Rush Limbaugh holding a stone behind his back, intended for Sandra Fluke, who is also in the painting. The poppies represent the blood shed by women around the world including the U.S.

            Photo Updated

            The painting is meant to evoke strength and hope.

            It was commissioned by Writer and (TED/NPR) speaker, Dan Ariely, and his Center For Advanced Hindsight at Duke University. I did not replace the photo to bring attention to myself. It was the only image I had available that would tie into this diary and one of which I own copyrights. I am very proud of it.

            Personally, I don't feel the first photo I posted (here) was manipulative. Disturbing yes. I'm putting it in this comment for reference only.
            I've done research on the treatment of women under Sharia Law and the Taliban. Actual photos of the atrocities committed against women and young girls, are easy to find on the internet, and will blow your mind. I would not post them here. Some made me physically, as well as emotionally, ill. The actual images are incredible and represent the truth about some horrendous ancient laws that need to be exposed, in hopes the laws can be amended and women will no longer suffer under them.

            This is a not Muslim thing. It is about crimes against women. The Bible's Old Testament also contains some some horrific laws and treatment against women. But most are no longer practiced. Both the Bible's Old Testament and parts of Sharia Law were written in ancient times and do not apply to women today.

            I didn't mean to go on and one in this comment. As you can see, I'm quite passionate about the subject of women and girls who are treated less than human. I believe most of us here feel the same.

            In the face of darkness - be the light.

            by Leslie Salzillo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 05:20:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Brilliant choice for a substitute image (0+ / 0-)

              well done.  The image of the poppies evokes multiple responses.

              I will agree that this "is about crimes against women."  I will disagree that it "is a not Muslim thing."  It most definitely is.

              It was a punishment based on Sharia law, which is the law of the land in the Maldives.  Sure, the Old Testament contains some pretty nasty stuff--but those laws are long dead, as they should be.  Not so in many Muslim countries though.  The barbarism in the nasty old books is considered just as valid today as it was when someone made it all up 1400 years ago.  

              When I see mass demos by Muslims against acts like this my opinion might start changing.  Even the regular Dkos Muslim posters rarely comment on these things.  Wonder why?

              •  You say it was from 1400 years ago (0+ / 0-)

                right?

                And the old testament going back further also contain extreme bigotry against women?

                OK.

                You argue that Islam as a religion in general is suspect while Christianity and Judaism are not simply because what is written in the old testament is no longer applied while the text from 1400 years ago still is ( not all Muslim communities apply to Sharia today BTW)?

                To me it is the individuals and the communities who commit these crimes under the guise of one religion or other shouldbe the blame instead of the equally old and the disturbing dogmasunless we are blaming them all equally for what they have in their origins.
                When you selectively generalize one religion as the cause of something that is obviously more universal whether it was followed in the past or currently however then you are making a fallacious and bigoted claim.

                "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

                by zenox on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:06:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The laws of the Old Testament are not "long dead." (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JDsg

                There is no country today where the laws of the Old Testament are the law of the land -- but they are still practiced, within limits imposed by various state laws, by religious Jews everywhere.  Some of them (not many) are practiced by Christians as well.

                If there were a Jewish or Christian theocracy anywhere in the world, there is no telling what it would look like.

                Personally, I'm glad there isn't -- and I'm religious.

              •  Because... (0+ / 0-)
                Even the regular Dkos Muslim posters rarely comment on these things.  Wonder why?
                ...some of us have a much better grasp of what shari'ah is and isn't. Because some of us have a much better understanding of how fiqh is applied in Muslim societies.  Because some of us know how much force is applied for a Muslim lashing.  (I would much rather receive 100 lashes from an Islamic court that would require a couple of aspirin afterwards and doesn't break the skin than receive three strokes of the cane in either Singapore or Malaysia that may take weeks to heal and permanent scars.)  Because some of us don't engage in knee-jerk responses because we lack understanding.

                Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                by JDsg on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:30:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Fabulous painting. Thank you (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical, Leslie Salzillo

              for sharing it. It made big difference.

              "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

              by zenox on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:08:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  That sounds horrible. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, Nowhere Man, MeToo, Be Skeptical

    I would like to know more about this case, but none of your links provide any direct discussion about the accusations of abuse by a stepfather, or even mention him.  Can you please give a link to a source that provides any actual documentation about these events?

    Proud to be a Truth Vigilante

    by Calvino Partigiani on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 07:39:48 PM PDT

  •  Tipped & rec'ed; I hate men nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  Sanctions. (5+ / 0-)

    Recall the Ambassador. Cut off their aid.

    I'm being sarcastic, but if the US and Europe wanted it to stop, it would stop.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 08:23:50 PM PDT

    •  Maybe if the US and Europe wanted it to stop (6+ / 0-)

      it would.  Maybe.

      But why don't the people of the Maldives think it should stop?  Really.

      When you have a government that is explicitly based on the principles of Islam, one that has broad popular support, any US or European interference is not likely to be effective.  You can't even be a citizen of the Maldives if you are not Muslim.  I doubt we will see much dissent from within anytime soon.

      I can only hope that Muslim women stand up and throw off their persecutors soon.  Maybe if Islam lost 800 million Muslim women the men would take notice.   Maybe.

  •  Reading stuff like this... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Leslie Salzillo

    ...puts me in a seething rage.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 09:09:18 PM PDT

  •  I just signed the petition. It's funny. I posted (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, OleHippieChick, ScienceMom

    it, but had not signed it myself.

    There are 2,200,000 signatures! You can watch the signatures come up from all over the world, as they are signed. Very cool, and very exciting to see how many people care.

    In the face of darkness - be the light.

    by Leslie Salzillo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 10:48:00 PM PDT

  •  Just what we need – more Islamophobia (0+ / 0-)

    If you care about women, why don't you try to clean your own house, and write a diary about how the Obama administration screws women, for example?

    American exceptionalism is America's road to perdition.

    by Alexandre on Mon Apr 08, 2013 at 11:31:26 PM PDT

  •  What's with the scareword "ShariaLaw"? We (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, Batya the Toon

    already have more than enough trouble keeping a "reality-based" discourse going without lashing issues to the kind of patriarchal-puritanical behavior you rightly decry. "Sharia law," from what I read, if taken straight, is an awful lot like what you get in the Christian Bible. It's a category that "right-wingers" label as "Sharia Law" on their way to bringing Good Christians to abide by and enforce the same "rules" and behaviors they claim to abhor.

    Here's what the crazies think is "Sharia Law:"

    http://www.clarionproject.org/...

    Look at recent legislation in Michigan, Ohio and a host of other states where "Christians"rule, and see if there are any  familiarities there.

    Another maybe more honest take on "Sharia law," with a little  more respect for the actual complex category, unwarped by the twistings of Dirty Old Men:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    The SOBs who do what they do to abused young women on paradise islands, flogging and stoning, need to have their lives adjusted, no doubt about that. So did the "Director of Christian Education" in the church I grew up in, a strait-laced Puritan who enforced his version of Right Conduct by various sanctions on the unresisting children, including the stuff that came out years later about diddling little boys and girls back in that book-lined, stuffy office...

    But please, as I understand it, Sharia law has many faces, and includes stuff that would actually outlaw and punish the crap that our Financial Class is pulling on the rest of us every day, from usurious interest to stealing our homes...

    "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

    by jm214 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 04:55:33 AM PDT

    •  You need to get out more. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Leslie Salzillo, srelar, Be Skeptical

      Sharia law is disgusting. They stone women for nothing. That's not cannabis, thats real rocks thrown really hard at her head until she is really dead. There is no christian anywhere doing that, and your false equivalence there is worse than silly.

      Under sharia law, I am not allowed to live. Read that again - in most muslim countries gays are put to death! Are you going to defend that? Sharia is bigotry, misogyny, and a whole host of just extreme brutality - death for drugs, amputation for shoplifting...

      You have crawled in bed with the most monstrous of all ideologies; to the point that you are defending sharia law on the internet. Sharia law is death for gays. I suppose we should just be happy that they don't kill us here, right?

      The fact that you actually researched this and still hold your bizarre opinion that sharia law is no different than biblical law... dude. Maybe you should stay in.

      I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

      by heybuddy on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:40:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Glad we have a common enemy. And no common ground. (0+ / 0-)

        This for heybuddy: "Sharia law" is one of the scare concepts the Right uses to get us, gay, straight, pedophile or whatever, to lose our critical thinking. Bad people find religious justification for all kinds of bad things, and yes, the Sharia traditions were shaped by a particularly bad set of old men and have a lot of horror and cruelty in their "tradition." These were/are old men who understand a lot about hypocrisy. So we share the planet with the people in several places, including Afghanistan, who do this:

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/...

        along with the stoning and flogging and you forgot to mention "honor killings," and there's a reason for that snarky line in the movie "Airport!," where the airline captain asks the little boy if he's ever been inside a Turkish prison. http://www.youtube.com/...

        Why let people who cynically conflate pieces of behavior under an umbrella category (like "liberal," or "socialist," or "Sharia law"), to manipulate and confuse and build political power out of tribal feelings and identities, get away with it?

        There's hypocrisy everywhere. And gay people, with varying degrees of visibility, everywhere too. Get wound up about me all you want, but the problem is the old men who cynically use various "laws" to control the rest of us. As clubs, or as bugbears.

        "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

        by jm214 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 09:35:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  While you're right of course that Christianity and (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical, Leslie Salzillo

          Islam share a barbaric and patriarchal beginning... the comparison ends there.

          Christians can be bigoted, but their bigotry is generally limited to marriage inequality and nasty comments. To compare them to muslims is absolutely insane.

          Show me one case where a Christian man had his daughter gang raped and killed, and Christians circled the wagons around him. To compare the two religions is not just unfair, its ridiculous.

          Christianity isn't perfect, but your false equivalence makes fools out of all of us on the left. You do realize that this conversation would get us killed under sharia, right? You're not "open minded" to pretend that the two religions are equal. And you're certainly not pro-woman or pro-gay rights if you pretend that their barbarity is no worse than the mere ongoing moral argument that we are having here. We are not just miles away from them, we are galaxies apart. Go tell the women and the gays in a sharia country that their situation is no worse than mine, and that I'm just using "scare words" to make them "lose" their critical thinking. Somebody here is not thinking, and it isn't them.

          Consistency is important if you want your ideas respected.  When you say sharia isn't any worse than Christianity, which is what you are saying, you relinquish your moral authority. Perhaps you don't realize that we can hate sharia and not hate muslims, just like we can hate the christian view of marriage without hating christians. But trust me, sharia law is a bad, bad thing, and doesn't remotely compare with us struggling here to get married and a little respect.

          Sharia law supporters should not find any shelter here on the left, even though they often seem to, and that's the focus of my ire here. I hope that my message comes through all of that.  

          I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

          by heybuddy on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 10:34:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think you may be confusing two things here. (0+ / 0-)

            There is sharia law, which is laid down by the Koran and subject to interpretation by any religious authority.  And then there is sharia law as it is currently practiced in many (most?) Muslim theocracies.

            The latter is what you're talking about.  And the latter is pretty terrible -- but if you want to compare that to Christianity, you can only justly compare it to Christian theocracies, not to Christians living in the US.

            To the extent that we are protected from abuses under Christianity here, it is not because Christianity is a morally superior religion -- it's because here and now it has a hell of a lot less power.  And power, as we all know, corrupts.

            •  Um, do you think sharia law is different in (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical

              the koran than it is practiced in muslim states now? You got it exactly backwards. The book says to be really strict, but Saudi is now allowing women to drive. The reality of current sharia enforcement is thankfully a lot more moderate than the koran instructs, but it is still positively monstrous. They don't always amputate thieves like they're supposed to, and some countries even have honor killing listed as a misdemeanor, but, really, are you going to argue that the countries are misreading it and putting up more extreme laws than in the book?

              And one last time, Judeo-Christian ethics were never anything close to the barbarity of sharia. At no point in Christian history was it okay to gang rape a female relative, no matter what she did. Sharia law still allows slavery. Even now, the only place where slavery is legal is under sharia law.

              Again, for far too long, sharia law proponents have found shelter with us, and you are not helping with your false equivalence.

              I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

              by heybuddy on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 12:31:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Have you got a source in the Koran (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JDsg

                for the gang-rape punishment for female relatives?  Is that actually a set-down part of the religion, or is it just a thing that people can get away with because their anger is considered justified and nobody is going to stop them or charge them afterwards?

                As for historical barbarity in Christian ethics, I would like to draw your attention to the Inquisition.

                •  You direct us to an historical barbarity (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  heybuddy

                  that has essentially been defunct for several hundred years.  That's all you've got?

                  •  I could talk about the Crusades (0+ / 0-)

                    and the witch-burnings and the blood libels, if you like ...

                    But essentially yes, all the things I could talk about are long since defunct.  I'm inclined to believe that this is heavily, if not entirely, because there are no current Christian theocracies.

                •  I want you to look in the mirror and say what you (0+ / 0-)

                  just wrote.

                  "Just a thing that people can get away with because..." their society considers it justified, and nobody is going to stop them?

                  I paraphrased the second part, but, you just made my point in the most chilling way possible. You're absolutely right. Nobody stops them. There is no one in a sharia law society that finds the gang rape of a female child abominable. They get their "honor" back when they do that, and their friends show no disgust about it. And that compares to a christian society how?

                  As for the place in the Koran that says to gang rape daughters, I don't have it, but I'm willing to retract that part of my comment if its worth anything.

                  But seriously, yuck.

                  I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                  by heybuddy on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 03:19:07 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  This is the point I'm trying to make. (0+ / 0-)

                    You're conflating the society with the religion.

                    The society is pretty damn horrible.  I am in complete agreement with you on that.  But I don't believe the religion is the cause of it; I believe it's being used as a justification and an excuse for vileness.  Which is something that any religion, or any non-religious ideology of sufficient power, can be used for -- especially in a context such as a theocracy, where any dissenting opinion is treated as both a sin and a crime.

                    •  Christian "theocracies" ended slavery. (0+ / 0-)

                      Not just ended it, but fought many nations and lost many men to end it across the globe. The only place where slavery still exists is in muslim nations.

                      You need to learn some history from an objective source. Christians ended thought control and allowed dissent 600 years ago. It's called the renaissance,

                      Witch trials were a month long insanity suffered by one town, and it actually horrified the Church when they found out.  

                      And about the crusades, the 800 year old example you're touting... Ever wonder why it was so important for Christians to mobilize and stop the advance of Islam? Maybe Islam was a barbaric culture that was conquering Europe and Asia and Africa by the sword... And that the crusades prevented us from living a modern day sharia nightmare?

                      I have to ask, does defending sharia make you feel like you are open-minded and enlightened? I realize it was pretty trendy for a while, but seriously, what do you get out of pretending that those jerks are not any different than our local church elders? Have you ever met a young muslim woman? I dare you to tell her that you defend her oppression on the grounds that it's not the religion, but just a couple of jerks who are misunderstanding islam or using it as an excuse.

                      One last thought: If you think the majority of muslims "misunderstand" islam... perhaps it is you who is not understanding islam, and not them.

                      I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                      by heybuddy on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:27:16 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Your grasp of history is extremely shaky. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JDsg

                        The "month-long insanity suffered by one town" was the Salem witch trials.  Witch-burnings are considerably older than that:

                        The classical period of witchhunts in Europe and North America falls into the Early Modern period or about 1480 to 1750, spanning the upheavals of the Reformation and the Thirty Years' War, resulting in an estimated 40,000 to 60,000 executions--not including a million Cathars who were declared to be witches.
                        Slavery and slave labor are currently practiced in China, North Korea, Haiti, Brazil, parts of India, and the Republic of Congo.  None of those are Muslim countries; the Republic of Congo is over 50% Catholic, Brazil is about 65%, and Haiti is closer to 80%.

                        As to the Crusades, we may be talking at cross purposes there.  I learned about the Crusades primarily from the point of view of how it affected my ancestors, who were a hell of a lot better off under the Muslims than under the Christians -- who may have been interested in stopping the spread of Islam, but didn't mind butchering Jews along the way.  Would you care to tell me what modern-day nightmares were prevented by those massacres?

                        I have in fact met a handful of young Muslim women, in college in New York; I learned a good deal from them, and vice versa.  That, as it happens, would be when and how I stopped thinking Islam was an inherently barbaric religion.

                        •  That's fair. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Batya the Toon, Leslie Salzillo

                          I can't argue with most of that. I thought you were referring only to Salem, but yes, it was more widespread in fact. Point yours.

                          Slavery is, sadly, also your point. It too is far more widespread, and it includes christians.  

                          The crusades, indeed, a mixed bag. The world would be terrible if Islam had conquered all, but for that gift we endured many other horrors, and well, its a mixed bag. I would strenuously argue though that Islam does not serve it's population well in terms of education and technology... that the world would look very different if they had won... but we could do a whole season on that topic. I'll back away from it;)

                          I guess my thing is this - A lot of women live under extreme oppression in Islam. And I never understood why western feminism doesn't try to help them more. And outside of the gay community, there is almost no discussion of their treatment of gays. While I may do battle with the Christian church here at home - (my whole family is church -goers and I still go sometimes.) We may have our disagreements, but the comparison of sharia law and christian beliefs are so night and day that it a: gives cover to sharia law proponents, and b: Is so ridiculous to christians who hear us comparing these two things that they we are think we are loony-toons. And that is not helpful, I think, to the really oppressed over there or the pretty oppressed over here.

                          I'm sorry that I ran my mouth with some "facts" that I thought I knew. I am humbled. If I may be so bold, it illustrates my point that an honest approach is crucial to winning converts. Both systems need improvement, but one just does not compare to the other.

                           

                          I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                          by heybuddy on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:42:40 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  An honest approach is definitely crucial (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            heybuddy

                            and I think we can shake hands and agree on that point, absolutely.

                            As to this:

                            I guess my thing is this - A lot of women live under extreme oppression in Islam. And I never understood why western feminism doesn't try to help them more. And outside of the gay community, there is almost no discussion of their treatment of gays.
                            I'm with you on those too, I think.  And yeah, a lot of us are working so hard to not be racist and ethnocentric that it can get in the way of recognizing when aspects of other cultures really are terrible.  And I wish like hell that we could do more to help the people suffering under this oppression.

                            But I've seen something of American Islam and its own version of sharia, and from what I've seen it really does differ from sharia as practiced in Islamic theocracies about as sharply as contemporary American Christianity differs from Inquisition-era Christianity (and, for that matter, as contemporary American Judaism differs from Biblical Judaism, under which idolaters could be killed without process of law and their killers would not be considered murderers).

                            I think a big part of how fanatical religions become milder and more open-minded is through exposure to others who don't share the same worldview, under circumstances where neither can threaten the other's safety.  When you see how others live, you start to get the idea that maybe your own way of life isn't the only possible good way; that hey, maybe civilization doesn't collapse if not everybody keeps the same restday, or if women leave their homes and hold jobs, or if men smooch other men.  And when that happens, religious practice and religious philosophy change -- slowly, and not universally, but they do change.  Three hundred years ago it was unthinkable among devout Jews to teach their daughters to study Bible; today it's unthinkable not to.  One hundred years ago it was unthinkable that any Christian church of any denomination would marry two men or two women; today it's happening.

                            And I think that's the best reason for the comparison, however ridiculous it may seem:  to demonstrate that if we've changed, so can they.

                          •  Fair again (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Batya the Toon, Be Skeptical

                            I've run out of disagreements. Words get in the way, don't they? good to meet you.

                            I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                            by heybuddy on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 11:21:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No offense... (0+ / 0-)
                            And I never understood why western feminism doesn't try to help them more.
                            ...but most Muslim women have no interest in being subjected to "white women's burden." The recent counter-protest to the Femen protest, as reported by Al-Jazeera, gives some recent proof to that.  To be honest, a lot of Muslim women (and men) don't want to be lectured by people whom Muslims see as being oppressed themselves, who show themselves to be deeply lacking in moral behavior.  

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:17:27 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But it is offensive (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            heybuddy

                            deeply offensive

                            a lot of Muslim women (and men) don't want to be lectured by people...who show themselves to be deeply lacking in moral behavior.
                            and just silly
                            ...whom Muslims see as being oppressed themselves...
                            Sounds like what the people of North Korea say about everyone else.
                          •  Well, no offense to everyone else. (0+ / 0-)

                            In your case, I'll make an exception.  Derp.

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 03:19:02 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Someday the magnitude of your cognitive dissonance (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            heybuddy

                            will cause your head to supernova.

                          •  @_@ (0+ / 0-)
                            And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant."  (28:55)

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 04:45:06 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  we seek not the ignorant (0+ / 0-)

                            Amen to that.  See ya........

                          •  Wow. (0+ / 0-)

                            A lot of muslim women, huh.

                            And can other people see these friends of yours?

                            I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                            by heybuddy on Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 11:38:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow, indeed! (0+ / 0-)

                            Do you always slip into Orientalist fantasy mode, or are you just playing the fool? What do you think, that Muslim men lock their women away in harems or that all Muslim women are niqabis or wear burqas?  The mind boggles. @_@

                            You know, if you treated the other people whom you converse with with a little more respect, you might not have to have your ass handed to you, such as Batya (whom I respect) had to do the other day.

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 07:55:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We are talking about living under sharia law here. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Be Skeptical

                            I know there are moderate muslims, and I'm not referring to them. We are talking about women in sharia. If women who live under sharia complain about sharia... they are executed for blasphemy.

                            And here you are telling us that they like it under sharia. I realize that you are not going to agree with me, and I frankly have no idea what an orientalist fantasy mode might be, but your position, in itself, is absurd.

                            It's like asking a hostage if they like their hostage taker while they still have a gun to their head. And then when the hostage says, "no, I like this!" You say "see? she likes it! you're a hater!"

                            I don't have much respect for slave masters and their apologists, I'm sorry, I'm guess I'm just not as open-minded as you.

                            I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

                            by heybuddy on Sat Apr 13, 2013 at 04:43:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's obvious that your conception of... (0+ / 0-)

                            ...shari'ah is woefully inadequate, to the point of, shall we say, absurdity.  All Muslims everywhere in the world live to some degree or another under shari'ah. Even in the country where I currently reside, shari'ah has been formally adopted into the secular legal system, especially with respect to issues involving women and families, including marriages, divorce and inheritance.  My own marriage was conducted under the shari'ah law system here.  Muslims of both genders, if need be, may go to hear their legal matters adjudicated under the shari'ah courts, which are part of the country's court system, and have been for over 50 years now.

                            Women who may complain about shari'ah are not executed for blasphemy.  They're not executed at all.  That is one of your Orientalist fantasies, as is your notion that Muslim men are somehow "slave masters." I mean, really, are you as ignorant as you paint yourself to be?

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Sat Apr 13, 2013 at 08:30:21 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Perhaps this blog post I wrote... (0+ / 0-)

                            ...several years ago might help to alleviate some of your confusion over what shari'ah is and isn't.  It touches on the subject at hand only indirectly and is extremely short (most writing on shari'ah and fiqh extends to volumes of books in order to do the subject justice), but it might help you to have the faintest idea of what you're trying to talk about:  On Shari'ah and American Politics

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Sat Apr 13, 2013 at 09:55:47 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  I basically agree, and was writing my my comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      43north

      above (with the one with two images) as you were writing yours.

      Again, this is about crimes against women and girls. It's not about Muslims. The Old Testament in the Bible also contains some some pretty horrific laws against women as well, and thank goodness they are no longer practiced today. The point is, there are many parts of the Bible and Sharia Law, that having bee written in ancient times, are hateful towards women, and have absolutely no place in today's society.  

      The sentence being imposed on this young girl is barbaric and degrading, and I believe it needs to be stopped and this law needs to be amended. Writing about it and signing the petition is one thing I can do.

      We have some pretty bad laws here, especially those restricting and demeaning women's reproductive rights and laws that do not adequately protect women from domestic violence or rape.sexual assault. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about being publicly flogged for fornication,  or worry about being stoned for having children out of wedlock or being falsely accused of adultery.

      In the face of darkness - be the light.

      by Leslie Salzillo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 06:44:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Old Testament Law and Sharia Law (0+ / 0-)

        Both are old, though most of the Old Testament is well over 1,000 years older.  But nowhere on earth does the Old Testament serve as the sole basis for justice, unlike Sharia law.  Do you really want to compare what Jews did 2,600 years ago and what happened in the Maldives last week?

        •  The comparison is only in the writings (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical

          and how they are applied.

          Laws from any religious/political writing, that scorn, degrade or treat women or any person sub-human are wrong, period. And they need to be exposed.

          Under Hitler's religious writing, millions of Jews were slaughtered. In Rwanda, a genocide occurred by using religious writings to massacre. Crimes and atrocities used in the name of religions go back to the beginning of time.

          I believe the basic Muslim religion of today originated in love and goodness, as do most religions. The crime comes when people fuck up and misuse the writings, for their own agenda to degrade, hate, and kill.

          The point here is:

          Some of the ancient barbaric laws under Sharia are being applied and carried out today by disgusting people. Sadly, a sentence of 100 lashes for fornication, which is carried out on 90% of women, (see diary) only touches on what Muslim women face under the same law.

          When something is clearly wrong, it should be discussed not just to criticize, but in a way to discover and create solutions.

          In the face of darkness - be the light.

          by Leslie Salzillo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 02:55:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fair enough.............eom (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Leslie Salzillo
          •  whoa, (0+ / 0-)

            Islam originated in love and forgiveness? What?

            Maybe you should read about the life of mohammed. He was a warlord, he forced his followers to let him marry their wives and daughters, married a 7 year old, killed lots of people....

            Hey, sounds just like Jesus, right?

            Your effort to sound non-judgmental has rendered you a clown.

            And did you compare the struggle for women to get free contraceptives here in America to the plight of women living under sharia? Yes, yes you did.

            Wow, I think I'm done here.

            I'm afraid that my signature won't match the mood of my comment.

            by heybuddy on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:45:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  @HBuddy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical

              You say:

              Your effort to sound non-judgmental has rendered you a clown.
              Firstly, there is no need for name calling. It's unnecessary and offensive.

              I am most certainly judgmental about many Sharia Laws. If you read my diary and comments you will see this. That is why I wrote this diary --to expose some of the laws I feel are barbaric -- and show how they try to silence women/girls and step on basic human rights (including choice of sexuality) around the world. At the same time I do not condemn all Islamic religion. That would be like taking some of the ridiculous or dated passages from the Bible and assuming they describe all of Christianity. There is no all or nothing to any religion.

              You say:

              And did you compare the struggle for women to get free contraceptives here in America to the plight of women living under sharia? Yes, yes you did.
              No, no, I did not. You have twisted my words. Did you read the entire paragraph? I was making a point that there is no comparison when it comes to extreme Sharia laws.


              I said:

              We have some pretty bad laws here, especially those restricting and demeaning women's reproductive rights and laws that do not adequately protect women from domestic violence or rape/sexual assault. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about being publicly flogged for fornication,  or worry about being stoned for having children out of wedlock or being falsely accused of adultery.
              In reading the comments in this thread, the words and opinions of many, including yours, have been twisted, and accusations have been wrongly made in haste to make an argument. Ironically, there seems to be a a common agreement here.

              You're preaching to the choir.

              I believe I need to stick to writing my diaries and moving on, staying out of my own comment threads. There will be people who agree and disagree --and some will disagree disrespectfully. As long as I do my best to write from a place of honesty, I need not defend my stance.

              In the face of darkness - be the light.

              by Leslie Salzillo on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 01:38:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  signature # 2,026,978 n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Leslie Salzillo, Be Skeptical

    The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

    by 43north on Tue Apr 09, 2013 at 02:49:41 PM PDT

  •  Don't the Maldives have near-total segregation (0+ / 0-)

    between tourists and locals, to deal with the "sunbathing and Sharia don't mix" conundrum?

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