Skip to main content

Sen Jim Risch says on CNN that it's clear there are 60 votes 2 override filibuster of background ck bill - he still will support filibuster
@emilyprollcall via TweetDeck

NY Times:
Several Senate Republicans on Tuesday came out publicly against filibustering the first major gun control legislation since 1993 before it is even brought up for debate on the Senate floor, as advocates inched toward breaking a conservative blockade of the measure.
WaPo:
The Senate will hold the first key procedural vote on a bill to curb gun violence Thursday as more than a half-dozen Republicans announced that they will join with Democrats to stop any attempt to block popular legislation drafted in response to a deadly shooting at a Connecticut elementary school.

The vote would formally start the the most wide-ranging and ambitious battle over gun control in 20 years.

HuffPost:
Lara Bergthold, a principal at the public relations firm Griffin Schein, who represents the Newtown-based nonprofit Sandy Hook Promise, confirmed to HuffPost that Newtown families met Tuesday with Grassley and Isakson, but declined further comment other than to say the group is "making strategic decisions about meetings." The Newtown group will be in Washington through Thursday's planned Senate votes on a variety of gun control proposals.
it's a fluid situation, but it certainly looks like descriptions of the death of gun legislation have been somewhat exaggerated. More politics and policy below the fold.

Reuters:

[Sandy Hook Promise executive director Tim] Makris said the Sandy Hook shooter brought 30-bullet magazines to the school and left smaller magazines at home.

"We know when the shooter stopped to reload, he made it possible for 11 children to escape," Makris said. "And we're left to wonder, if he had carried smaller magazines, and been forced to reload up to three times more ... would more children be alive?"

The group sought to present a human face to lawmakers.

Asked what the group could bring to the debate what other gun-control advocates could not, Mark Barden, whose 7-year-old son Daniel was killed in the shooting, told the conference call:

"Lots of people can discuss the issues from an intellectual perspective, but we bring a personal perspective."


With Toomey-Manchin gun deal close, remember where you learned of talks first: http://t.co/... (ok @politico too)
@ThePlumLineGS via TweetDeck

WSJ:
Support Grows for Vote on Gun-Control Bill

Senate Democrats Appear to Have Numbers to Foil GOP Filibuster, but Few Obama Recommendations Expected to Survive

NY Times on new science education guidelines:
Worried that public schools are failing to prepare students for a complex and changing world, educators unveiled new guidelines Tuesday that call for sweeping changes in the way science is taught in the United States, emphasizing hands-on learning and critical scrutiny of scientific evidence.

Among many other changes, the guidelines call for introducing climate science into the curriculum starting in middle school, and teaching high school students in detail about the effects of human activity on climate.

Jonathan Bernstein:
I love a good, gossipy politics story, and so far the Mitch McConnell/Mother Jones story is certainly a fun one, with plenty of charges and countercharges and even an appearance by a real Hollywood celebrity.

But for those of you who would rather skip all of that and get to the point, it’s very simple: Mitch McConnell is a perpetually and currently unpopular Republican politician in a state which is increasingly tough for Democrats. His solution? Turn his reelection race, if at all possible, into a referendum on San Francisco liberals (such as San Francisco based Mother Jones), or at least Kentucky liberals, and not on himself.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:30 AM PDT.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA and Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  NYT editorial board (30+ / 0-)
    But the Senate could still make significant progress by approving a compromise bill that Senator Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, a Democratic gun-rights supporter, is negotiating with Republicans, which may be the most likely way to expand the current background-check system. Though the bill is weaker than it should be, it could win the support of Patrick Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania, and possibly other Republicans, as well as Democrats from conservative states.

    Specifically, it would require background checks and records of buyers at advertised commercial sales of guns, including those at gun shows and on the Internet, a fast-growing market for weapons often used by those who would not qualify for a gun from a dealer.

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:26:32 AM PDT

    •  I thought internet sales require delivery to an (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salmo, skohayes, andalusi

      FFL dealer who is required to run a NICS background check the same as any other sale?

      Hope I got all the acronyms right. I had granpa's old double sent out from MA, and had to jump through similar hoops.

      Oh, and good deal with the legislation, hope it passes.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:05:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, that's how it works (4+ / 0-)

        Although the muzzle loading barrel for a TC Contender I sent to my son did not have that requirement.  In fairness, even though that makes a weapon that shoots a 405 grain bullet at 1800 fps (damn near what used to be called an elephant gun), and uses percussion cap ignition (a technology not available when the Constitution was written), it is both so close to the sort of thing they could reasonably have imagined when they wrote the Second Amendment and so unarguably unsuitable for criminal purposes and mass murder that I think the omission of those types of things from the requirement for a background check is reasonable.

    •  Still trying to figure out why I have (15+ / 0-)

      To transfer my car title, but can just hand a gun over to a friend if I wished.   How backwards is the country at this point?

      "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

      by justmy2 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was hearing rumors (6+ / 0-)

      that Toomey and Manchin had some sort of agreement on background checks, and that the Senate would hold a press conference this morning.
      And I want to thank you, Greg and all of our other faithful APR authors, for keeping this issue front and center for us every day.
      I even called my Senators (two Repubs from KS, no less) to let them know I would not be happy if they were afraid to allow debate on this bill and joined the filibusterers.
      Evidently, it worked!

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:41:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Today is the birthday in 1827 of Lew Wallace (0+ / 0-)

    I thought his life was of enough interest that I gige you a brief overview in this diary   There was much more to him than the novel he wrote about Ben Hur.

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:32:18 AM PDT

  •  Dear Mitch, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, wintergreen8694

    written late yesterday after pondering the actions of the Senate Minority Leader both in the tape that was released and his words and actions since.

    You can read this "open letter" if you are interested.

    Peace.

    "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

    by teacherken on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:33:54 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for this encouraging news this morning, (11+ / 0-)

    Greg!  We can hope for the best.  Even Republics have grandchildren, surely. You'd think they would want to protect them.

    Didn't someone say it was a disgruntled staff member that released the McConnell team's tape?  But of course, Republics are never at fault.

    Speaking of Rethugs, our dear gubner McDonnell is under investigation for accepting a rather large gift for "his daughter's weddin'."  Good.  Hope it tarnishes his alleged legacy.  He should go down in the history books as Governor Transvaginal.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:38:30 AM PDT

  •  In a sane country (21+ / 0-)

    this:

    "We know when the shooter stopped to reload, he made it possible for 11 children to escape,"
    would mark the end of the discussion about gun magazines.  Unfortunately, it seems that this country grows less sane every day.

    If the Republicans ever find out that Barack Obama favors respiration, we'll be a one-party system inside two minutes. - Alan Lewis

    by MadRuth on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:42:29 AM PDT

  •  I am glad that some gun laws..... (5+ / 0-)

    will at least get a vote in the Senate.  We need to build momentum against people who don't vote against gun trafficking and straw purchases.  i am afraid the law on background checks will be very weak and full of loopholes, but something is better than nothing.

    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

    by murrayewv on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:43:48 AM PDT

  •  What kind of state would elect a "Jim Risch" ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hulibow

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:53:42 AM PDT

  •  Gun legislation IS dead Greg. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FogCityJohn

    What we are talking about is background check legislation. Gun legislation (that is regulation of guns & ammunition not people) isn't even on the table any more.

    •  it is alive in NY, CT, MD and CO (17+ / 0-)

      and background checks matter more than an AWB. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

      I am not a Margaret Thatcher fan but I do like a few of her quotes.

      “You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it.”

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:58:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those aren't the states that were filling the (5+ / 0-)

        nations with guns in the first place. Any homicide detective in New York will tell you the vast majority of murders in NYC occur with guns legally purchased somewhere in the South.

        In those states the laws are going in the other direction.

        •  But passing anything is a huge step in the right (10+ / 0-)

          direction. What do you think is going to happen once politicians see that you can cross the NRA and still win elections. The background checks are very important, and there is clearly more work that needs to be done, but if this legislation passes it is a MAJOR blow to the NRA.

          •  Not much. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tb mare, pelagicray, gc10

            It took the slaughter of children to get us a loopholy bachground check. You think now theres going to be an outbreak of gun regulation? Methinks not.

            Its going take another couple of massacres (meanwhile the normal everyday gun killing will continue) or a changing demographic tide when the people who live with gun violence as a part of everyday life (mostly minorities) become a majority.

            •  I don't know whay we always do this (9+ / 0-)

              it's the Obama care discussion 9but it's not single payer) all voer again.

              Gets old, ya know? You have to recognize progress when you see i, and then build on it.

              No one is quitting this fight, not in our lifetime.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:55:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Some People Need Instant Gratification, Otherwise (6+ / 0-)

                All they see is failure. Some people just don't get that real progress is slow and plodding, it's rarely immediate.

                They take a look at Bush and say "See, look what HE got done!" without realizing that wasn't progress, it was destruction and dismantling. That's easy and happens quickly. But progress? That ain't easy.

                This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:38:19 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, and it is one of our real social/political (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Beetwasher

                  problems. I've often commented here about how real change is a long, hard, often discouraging and sometimes futile work in progress for all of us. You make a very good point on the ease of destruction vice construction or major course change for the better.

                  Electing one president once, even twice doesn't usually accomplish much constructively, particularly when lack of continued interest allows what I've observed over fifty years of voting—what I called elsewhere the two step forward, one and a half back step dance. Also forgotten is that the Reagan "revolution" was not spontaneous by any means. It was the culmination of a long, well financed and planned effort dating back to reaction to FDR's change and a lack of passing on the flame by our side.

                  Solving problems, building is much harder, longer term and requires closer attention to a range of issues than burning the carefully and hard built house.

                  The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                  by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:30:24 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Reagan and Brady shot to Brady Bill... (0+ / 0-)

                ...5 years, IIRC. Regrettably, I expect our current struggle to take longer.

                When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

                by Egalitare on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:53:05 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Well, then, let's just do nothing! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              annominous, SoCalSal

              We can't accomplish miracles (although IMO, getting a bill through the US Senate is a BIG miracle), so let's just sit on our hands and do nothing. What are you waiting for?

              Background checks could lead to making straw purchasing illegal, which would cut down on illegal guns in the city quite a bit.

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:47:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yup - this is America. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes

            We cannot do the right thing at first nor all at once. We must painfully continue to do that which is PROVEN to be counterproductive as long as feasible so that we can then take the glory for something that should have been accomplished generations ago.

            Incrementalism is our value. The more creeping it is, the better for the status quo.

            Let us take the tiniest baby-steps possible towards what is clearly the correct answer.

            •  I Think That's Progress in General, For The Most (7+ / 0-)

              Part.

              Real progress IS slow, because you are always fighting a running battle against the recidivists. They are blocking your way forward and attempting to dismantle what's already been accomplished.  So progressives are always fighting on two fronts, the vanguard and a rearguard action.

              The recidivists have it easy. All they have to do is smash things.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:40:45 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Just being able to discuss it without being (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            belle1, Miggles

            shouted down or threatened is a huge step.

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:51:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  “You may have to fight a battle more than (4+ / 0-)

        once to win it"

        One should - ideally - define one's enemy as one's enemy and focus on incapacitating them as quickly as possible and ENSURING they are not going to recover and continue to be your enemy. (You do want to WIN don't you?)

        Why fight it more than once if you don't really have to? (You do want to WIN don't you?)

        The LAST THING YOU DO is give them what they want. What kind of sense does that make? Posturing?

        Incapacitating the Right Wing of America is a war, not a battle: it is a far larger collection of conflicts greater than any one particular battle.

        Dems and liberals in general lack this essential ability to determine when to be 'mean-spirited'. Your enemy - the Republicans -  they are MASTERS of mean-spiritedness and they are defined by it in large part.

        Winning requires stepping on toes and defeating somebody who is NOT concerned about your toes. if you insist on remaining polite and respectful in the face of these bastards you're not going to prevail as easily as you could....

        The goddamned sequester is a fabulous example of not just fighting the same battle over and over: it institutionalizes the entire concept. That battle can now be dragged out for years.

        This is why dems are such disgusting losers. They are absolutely committed wimps. Harry Fucking Reid is the posterboy. Obama's brilliant strategery belongs there to. So much for his 11 dimensional bullshit. Caving to your enemy is NOT WINNING.

        Mostly I vote against republicans rather than "for" democrats for this very reason. It's that or not vote at all.

        God forbid we do something correctly the first time around.

        •  oh, sure (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlueStateRedhead, Miggles, SoCalSal

          just win. If you can.  ;-)

          I am all for that.

          but when you can't just win, which is much of the time...

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I partially agree with you. But you don't step (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Stude Dude

          on toes if it means you lose the war. I agree Dems and progressives need to develop a killer instinct.
          I think civilization depends on it.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:54:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Have to agree in part, not entirely, as a fair (0+ / 0-)

          bit of our present problem was failure to consolidate the wins of the 1930s and 1940s by truly crushing those plutocrats, many flirting with Nazis in 1939-40, and keeping the lessons alive in our own children and grandchildren as those enemies of the New Deal established "think tanks" and long range planning to undermine and reverse progressive efforts. I've quoted it before and it is worth doing again:

          One needs not erase history. One needs only fail to teach one generation of children. Fail with two, and the destruction widens. [C. J. Cherryh in Hammerfall]
          I came to maturity thinking we'd learned basic lessons about unregulated capitalism and greed and were learning and progressing on even racial monsters that haunted our history. I knew the past, but deeply underestimated how little my contemporaries or younger cohorts knew nothing.

          I now understand even that. I was discouraged, but not surprised twenty years ago to hear well educated youngsters asking why the hell we needed emissions testing of cars in the D.C. metro area when the skies were clear and the air clean. I had to explain 1970 D.C. when the Washington Monument was hardly a shadow in yellow haze from the Capitol (or even closer) and a fall into the Potomac was prophylactic doctor visit for a round of shots.

          I don't think the problem is just Democrats in office.

          The problem lies with a society too ADD and too self absorbed to know and maintain a progressive political party election after election, year after year, decade after decade. Pogo was right.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:49:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  As a Marylander, I'm glad my state (9+ / 0-)

        passed the new laws.  Our problem, though, is that guns come in from VA. The same thing happens in DC.  Unless we get some sort of national laws in place, those of us who live in states with stricter gun laws will still be victimized by those states who have little or no gun control.

        “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

        by musiclady on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Last I heard, the NRA was still fighting hard (18+ / 0-)

      against background checks.  When they lose on this issue, it will become possible to defeat them on the bigger ones.

      Their aura of invincibility is what has prevented any gun legislation over the last twenty years.  That aura is about to be punctured.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:59:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Even if anything passes, what chance does it have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walk2live

      in the House?

      •  very little.. (0+ / 0-)

        I was just going to make the same comment. But, that's no reason not to try to move the debate, and get these senators on the record.

        I'm not even sure the House will bring it up for a vote. But, it'd be nice to see some pressure put on them. Maybe something will happen.

        Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

        by walk2live on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:37:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  This time. The gun regulation movement is going to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlueStateRedhead

      grow, though.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:50:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  On the same day the pro-gun filibuster (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, One Opinion, Miggles

    fell apart, Adrian Walker at the Boston Globe saw fit to pen this defeatist tripe.

    Remember when the schoolhouse massacre in Newtown, Conn., was supposed to be the day everything changed? Remember when the massacre of children less than four months ago was going to bring right-thinking people ­together in a quest for common-sense solutions to gun violence?

    That was before a bill intended to regulate gun violence reached Congress. Though the bill is likely to reach the Senate floor Thursday, it has been stripped of many key provisions gun-control advocates had hoped for. Even the watered-down version is not guaranteed to win approval.

    When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

    by litho on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:55:28 AM PDT

    •  So...your assessment is that (0+ / 0-)

      this is a major step forward in gun regulation...akin to what the President proposed in his plan?

      No. The President's initial proposal was a middle ground proposal and now any and all gun regulations in that proposal have been removed.

      We are basically down to the legal commercial gun salespeople regulation on background checks. Something they already do in most states. And they're will be additional loopholes in that in Manchin has his way. He will. Now if you can pass a background check, go ahead and buy yourself a massive arsenal and happily gift them to your crazy skinhead friends. Or your nutcase Call Of Duty addicted cousin. Perfectly ok.

      Meh.

      •  oh, we didn't get everything we wanted first time (11+ / 0-)

        but all the talk about nothing can possibly happen anywhere because of the NRA turned out to be false.

        Robin Kelley IL-02
        CT
        MD
        CO
        NY
        Bloomberg's group (MAIG)now a major player with long term funding

        Double meh.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:04:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll bet you $1 (0+ / 0-)

          you wont see any federal gun legislation for 20 years or until the next massacre, whichever comes first.

          Bet?

          •  Would this change your mind? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Heart of the Rockies
            Latinos are more likely than both whites and African Americans to favor strict gun control laws, according to a report released by the Pew Research Center on Wednesday.
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

            "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

            by Bush Bites on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:13:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  In about 20 years, sure. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tobendaro

              That'll be about the time the minority vote will be at critical mass and we will be able to legislate enough control over rural white people in the South. But until that time, its just going to take more massacres. I mean in 50 to 100 years we can repeal the 2nd Amendment...but I mean that's kind of sad don't you think?

              Like I said before, the only thing that could possibly get us real serious gun and ammunition regulation is if someone ran into a maternity ward and committed an act of mass infanticide. That MIGHT get us at least restrictions on ammunition.

              I say MIGHT.

              •  One interesting dynamic is that rural population.. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                skohayes, One Opinion

                ....is growing increasingly Hispanic, mainly in the West, I think.

                I wonder if this will cause rural voters to be more in favor of gun control, or Hispanic voters to be more against gun control?

                Between 2000 and 2010, the minority population, which included everyone other than non-Hispanic whites, accounted for 82.7 percent of rural population gain, even though minorities represented just 21 percent of the rural population. The minority population grew by 1.8 million (21.3 percent) during the decade compared with a gain of just 382,000 (.95 percent) among the much more numerous non-Hispanic white population. Hispanics accounted for most of the growth in the minority population.

                “Thus, while rural America remains less diverse than urban America, minority growth now accounts for most rural population increase, just as it does in urban areas,” Johnson says.

                http://www.newswise.com/...

                Anyway, don't bet on rural whites -- they're a dying breed.

                "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

                by Bush Bites on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:29:55 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  There's no need to be argumentative or (5+ / 0-)

            hostile.  Sounds like you hope you're right.  If so, shame on you.  But we get your point.  You're pessimistic.  Really pessimistic.  OK.  Your right, but repeating it ad nauseum is approaching diary hijacking.  Please knock it off.

            Many social changes in this country have taken generations, including abolition and women's suffrage.  Anthony and Stanton never saw women vote.  MLK never saw a proudly bi-racial President.

            In my lifetime I've seen attitudes, laws and behaviors change on smoking, drinking and driving, race, bi-racial and same sex marriage and homosexuality, among other things.  You never get there if you don't take the first steps.

        •  This matters (4+ / 0-)
          Robin Kelley IL-02

          Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up. A. A. Milne

          by hulibow on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:21:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  if Democrats break a republican filibuster (12+ / 0-)

      everything has changed. it will only happen because of intense lobbying form the responsibility side. And that lobbying 9and the creation of that lobby) IS the story of what's changed.

      Amazing that the lazy people who wrote their story last week can't update. Talk about herd mentality amongst pundits.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:01:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your turn Boehner....and Boehner does NOT want (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bush Bites, skohayes, Miggles

        to talk about this.

        •  Boehner doesn't want to talk about anything, (3+ / 0-)

          not even the budget.  The House has passed a budget (Paul Ryan's); the Senate has passed a budget (Patty Murray's).  It is now Boehner's job to appoint House members to a conference committee to work out the differences in the two bills, if possible.  But has he done his job?  No.  He's said he won't do his job until the president submits his own budget - which Boehner promptly calls DOA.  Now what is he going to do?  I imagine he'll do nothing but continue to say "NO" to doing his job.  He's worthless.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:21:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh Gawd (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlueStateRedhead, walk2live

        I sooooo want a republican filibuster broken, just once.  I want them to be all sad their big weapon failed to kill something just one darn time.  I will celebrate with cake, because I like cake...

        •  Hurray for this cake, all cake,it's not pie! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dont Get MAD

          Is it against site rules to say I never developed a taste for pie, even before coming to Kos.

          While cake, with or without icing, not we talking celebration worthy calories....

          "Are you bluish? You don't look bluish," attributed to poet Roger Joseph McGough, for the Beatles' Yellow Submarine (1968).

          by BlueStateRedhead on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 07:46:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe an educator can help me here. (4+ / 0-)

    I never understood that "Texas sets the standards because they buy so many books" argument.

    Small-run presses and self-publishing happens all the time in the real world.

    What gives?

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 04:58:46 AM PDT

    •  Small presses don't do textbooks (6+ / 0-)

      Your scenario seems to involve some group of parents or teachers or independent writers getting together and designing, say, an alternate textbook for 4th grade US history, coming up with the money to publish it, and then convincing the State Board of Education to select theirs over the one that's being used in Texas and a number of other states. Conceivable, especially in states where textbooks are selected by each school district instead of at the state level, but highly unlikely, and not enough to make a noticeable dent in the market.

      It's even less likely when everyone is using standardized tests -- you need uniformity of textbooks to match the mind-numbing tests. So they're not going to buy something untested, un-advertised, etc. etc. So California and Texas dominate the market.

      •  Kind of funny. (3+ / 0-)
        So they're not going to buy something untested, un-advertised, etc. etc.
        They'd rather buy something that's guaranteed to be bullshit versus something that might be bullshit.

        Anyway, any country that lets Texas set the standard is screwed.

        "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

        by Bush Bites on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:36:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe that's all they can afford. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Egalitare, SoCalSal, Amber6541

          Remember bulk buying reduces prices.  If CA and TX order 5 million textbooks, the price of each book is going to be considerably lower for a school district than a few thousand print run for that district's desired curriculum.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:30:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, and when they do . . . (0+ / 0-)

        Confederacy of dunces suspected in Virginia text book scandal.

        Thousands of Southern blacks fought in the Confederate ranks, including two black battalions under the command of Stonewall Jackson.
        Yup, just thousands and thousands of them darkies just loved the old CSA!

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:53:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This used to be possible (0+ / 0-)

        I took US History in 1965 at a very good school in a college town. At the beginning of the year we were given a textbook and told that we might occasionally want to read the part that covered what we were studying. All of the reading assignments were from handouts.

        The school had an 8.5x11 offset press (very common; I've forgotten the name). This was when the Xerox 914 was the size of a desk and very expensive. Every week the teaching team would have 100 copies of 10 to 30 pages printed up. They were about half from sources contemporary to the time being studied and half from books or articles written in the 50's or 60's. I remember being very impressed by d'Tocqueville; it felt like reading a fresh magazine article.

        I doubt this was strictly legal. I'm sure that d'Tocqueville and all were out of copyright, but the current stuff was surely copyrighted. I don't believe the "fair use" concept was well developed at that time. In the event we never heard of anyone getting hauled into court.

    •  Here's one take (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, skohayes, One Opinion
      Texas originally acquired its power over the nation’s textbook supply because it paid 100 percent of the cost of all public school textbooks, as long as the books in question came from a very short list of board-approved options. The selection process “was grueling and tension-filled,” said Julie McGee, who worked at high levels in several publishing houses before her retirement. “If you didn’t get listed by the state, you got nothing.” On the other side of the coin, David Anderson, who once sold textbooks in the state, said that if a book made the list, even a fairly mediocre salesperson could count on doing pretty well. The books on the Texas list were likely to be mass-produced by the publisher in anticipation of those sales, so other states liked to buy them and take advantage of the economies of scale.
      How Texas Inflicts Bad Textbooks on Us

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:29:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Fortunately California provides some (0+ / 0-)

      counterbalance.

    •  Agree. I think this theory became obsolete with (0+ / 0-)

      the advent of ebook platforms and the now nearly non-existent costs to micropublish.  Texas can authorize all the theocon textbooks they want, but they won't get used in Maryland or California.

  •  Inevitable (7+ / 0-)

    There has never been a more appropriate time for serious and substantive action on our nationwide gun problem. The NRA and its pro-gun violence ilk do not speak for the majority. These cowards, all shills fro gun manufacturers, blame everyone and everything but guns for mass murders. How can any organization stand up and protect the "right" to own and use 100-round ammunition drums, only designed for mass killing and nothing else? The sustained national reaction and demand for a substantive path forward on common sense regulations after the massacre in Newtown has shocked the GOP and its NRA allies. This is not like the other shootings, where the press and the politicians seek to quickly move on to whatever manufactured story is deemed more important than the lives of innocent Americans.     progressive

  •  I am CONVINCED a huge part of the GOP (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coppercelt, tobendaro, Egalitare, skohayes

    Conservative agenda is 'reducing the surplus population' by any means that Americans don't connect the dots about.

    lets start with what's legal: Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.

    HOW MANY DEATHS are associated with those three legal - ergo good - things yearly? Half a million or so.

    Alcohol kills a lot of people but it is legal.

    Tobacco kills 400000 Americans a year and few people raise an eyebrow. Repubs like it that way. 400000 Americans not mooching, not seeking healthcare, not drawing disability. A fucking Capitalist Miracle on Wall Street. And it;s all legal. What a great operation.

    marijuana, as most people know (if you don't,l where have you been?) is just this side of 'harmless'. It doesn't kill anybody and has no realistic fatal OD potential, like good and legal alcohol.

    It appears to be a cornucopia of promising new medications including treatments for cancer, MS, and possibly PTSD.

    Your GOP works day and night diverting your tax dollars to enforcing the butthole stupid prohibition the Republicans love so much. Thats the Repubs. Dems help only by how dems help the GOP with anything. They just go along. Kumbyfuckinya.

    The GOP are working hard to make sure your kids and your families are ruined by their war on marijuana, they don't want you smoking it, they don't want you growing it, they sure as hell don't want you studying it and generate USEFUL DATA.

    The GOP wants you sick, unemployed, languishing without benefits, they want you to not be able to get treatment, they want you to be armed to the teeth and they want you to hurt other people to accomplish their ends, this is why they filibuster anything that looks like gun safety legislation.

    The GOP wants you dead.

    So put down that bong, smoke you some tobacco, have a few beers and stock up on guns.

    That makes you a good American Citizen in the eyes of Americas worst enemies: Your republican neighbors.

    •  The current GOP is a figment of Rush Limbaugh's (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xxdr zombiexx, skohayes

      imagination.

      •  It may be imaginary, but it certainly (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stude Dude, pelagicray

        effects real world consequences.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:33:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A local radio talk show had a true gem on that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SueDe

          During a discussion of business practices, including telecommuting and such, one of the guests answered a question about why we are so frozen on any actions to fix the economy and even enforce labor law. To paraphrase:

          Because we have a major party
          [holding the House] at war with itself.

          Effectively, as a result of our failing to consolidate wins of 2008 in 2009/10 at the state and legislative levels, a party with a raging internal war holds enough handles of power to nullify the majority's will across the board. From the economy to guns and climate change the waring children can interrupt any adult meeting for progress.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 09:00:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  and junk food and poisons in the water (6+ / 0-)

      and air, and OSHA regulations, and anything else that actually reduces the risk of death and serious injury and illness.

      I disagree on your statements about tobacco -- many people care a lot, as witnessed by the enormous campaign over the past 50 years, including litigation, and increasingly tight regulation of where people can smoke and where cigs can be advertised. That didn't happen by itself; it came from huge lobbying and public education campaigns. Buying and possessing cigarettes may still be legal (for adults), but smoking is now heavily restricted.

      •  (Oh..I'm aware of the massive anti-smoking effort) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        And yeah, LOTS of people have quit smoking, which is awesome.

        However........the fact that tobacco remains regulated (legal) sends the message that it is good and we still have 400000 Americans dying each year and the ongoing legality of tobacco means this is acceptable.

        The 40000 deaths each year related to VIOXX, which was removed from the market then returned because it is so lucrative for the company - those are rationalized as "worth it" as many other people benefit greatly from VIOXX.

        we will tolerate these needless and preventable deaths but continue to harass and ruin and kill Americans for touching marijuana which doesn't kill anybody.

        Republicans want that to remain illegal and demonized while they want firearms to remain as legal as water.

        Who wants you dead?

    •  I am sorry to have to (0+ / 0-)

      agree with you.  What a sad cynic I am.

      Everyone! Arms akimbo!

      by tobendaro on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 05:56:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I wouldn't go so far as this (0+ / 0-)
      Tobacco kills 400000 Americans a year and few people raise an eyebrow. Repubs like it that way. 400000 Americans not mooching, not seeking healthcare, not drawing disability.
      On the contrary, many of these people, because of their poor health, do collect disability and we do spend a LOT of money on medicare patients who were former smokers, and now have lung cancer and pulmonary disease.
      I think we should outlaw tobacco and make MJ legal and solve a LOT of issues that way.
      And I'm really not joking.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 07:12:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's simpler than that. (0+ / 0-)

      The only care about stuff that affects their bank accounts.

      If they can make money selling cancer, they'll do it.

      Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

      by walk2live on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:42:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Paul Ryan...'We are on the cusp of an energy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Egalitare, skohayes

    revolution.'......By energy I assume he means oil. And the Brits were on a cusp a while back ago when they discovered the North Sea fields....their national heritage...which they squandered.

  •  WaPo (4+ / 0-)
    A bipartisan group of senators has struck a deal to expand gun background checks to all commercial sales — whether at gun shows, via the Internet or in any circumstance involving paid advertising, according to Senate aides familiar with the talks.

    The proposed agreement would be more stringent than current law, which requires checks only when purchases are made through a licensed dealer, but less strict than the requirements originally sought by President Obama and congressional Democrats, who were seeking to expand background checks to nearly every kind of sale.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:17:04 AM PDT

  •  Gop Senate might as well vote in favor of (6+ / 0-)

    drunk driving, while they're at it. The Sandy Hook Promise group will be as big as MADD.
    That's my feeling.
    In fact, let me coin the "Gun-Drunk" meme. You got it here first.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:29:08 AM PDT

  •  Obamacare Was Dead Too At One Point, Remember? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, skohayes, Miggles

    Don't believe none of what hear and half of what you see.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 06:35:03 AM PDT

  •  "I'm never going to commit suicide...." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, Miggles, walk2live

    ....I'm going to get my gun and kill a lot of people".

    Thats what the mentally ill gun nut at my work said in front of our entire division.. publically, in an anti-suicide meeting to build unit cohesion.

    The group leader just about shit his pants when asked what action he would take....

    This guy still works here, too.   But isn't smart enough to realize that "killing a lot of people".... is essentially a way of committing suicide yourself.

    •  Yikes... (0+ / 0-)

      Not sure what you can do, but I'd look for a new job like yesterday. It's kind of a no-win situation - firing the guy might be what'll set him off!

      Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

      by walk2live on Wed Apr 10, 2013 at 08:44:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site