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       This Boston thing makes me realize what a hypocrite I am and has brought a sadness to my soul. On the one hand I claim to not believe in capitol punishment and profess all this spiritual bullshit and on the other there is no doubt if given the opportunity I would kill these bastards without a shred of guilt or remorse. There was an 8 year old girl who lost her legs in the bombing. There is no excuse for harming children
.     When I was in San Diego at a raw food place I would go to the park and smoke a  cigarettes and talk to this huge palm tree whose name was Bob. This father would bring his daughter who had that Humpty Dumpty gait of a little girl who has just learned how to walk. She had the whole place to walk except this one place, a circle of sand with a 6 inch high concrete wall around it. Inside were some things that might hurt the little girl. She was determined to get inside that circle. She would clop around stopping to examine a rock or a weed always looking to see where her father was. When she thought the coast was clear she would make a beeline clopping as fast as she could for the forbidden place. The father would slowly move to intercept her and block her way. Not a word was spoken. Realizing she was foiled again she would look up at the giant who was her father, stop, turn around and resume picking up rocks and sometimes petting a dog that someone had brought to the park. This was repeated over and over again. As I said she was a determined little girl. When it was time to go he would pick her up and swing her around she giggling and loving it. He would be carrying her away and I always loved the interaction between the two. He would be smiling and laughing as she happily pointed out all the wonders of the universe she had discovered that day.
        I have no answers.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    Join the War on Thinking. Watch Fox News- John Lucas

    by Jlukes on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:17:12 AM PDT

  •  that anger is understandable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eikyu Saha, BRog

    My position on the death penalty was a long time coming. One of the obstacles was that some of the people who get the death penalty are true monsters, which makes the position difficult. But my position isn't about the monsters and what they did. It's about US and what we do, plus the errors that put innocents on death row.

    Frankly, life in prison seems like a harsher punishment.

    •  Sometimes events hammer our (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wasatch

      emotional state. The reality is that is not the time to come to any conclusion about anything.

      Join the War on Thinking. Watch Fox News- John Lucas

      by Jlukes on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:39:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That is precisely why we have (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jlukes, wasatch, Kimbeaux

      a justice system.  So that we can all take a breather, and make sure we are doing the right thing to the right person.  

      Unfortunately, even our justice system has a fairly high breakdown rate, which is another reason to oppose the death penalty.  

      And (to especially add my own two cents), I'm not at all convinced that incarceration and corporeal abuse deals with the issue very well.  Punishment, as I see it, is mostly about convincing victims that what is done can be undone, when it can't.  On the one hand, the satisfaction for the victim is superficial.  On the other hand, my impression is that perpetrators rarely make the cognitive connection between damage to their victims and damage to themselves.  

  •  this is one reason justice is deliberate (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eikyu Saha, Jlukes, Kimbeaux, andalusi

    while its pace is sometimes maddening, at the same time, its slow procession allows for emotions to quell and reason to take its place, hopefully.

    For that reason, we oppose extra-judicial executions whereby life or death is decided by a bureaucrat and executed by a drone controller 2000 miles away.  We should hope the second brother is captured and subjected to the full force of the law and allowed to mount a defense and introduce mitigating circumstances.  Compare the difference in outcome between how we treated the first WTC bombing and the second

    •  justice should be deliberate, agreed (0+ / 0-)

      I do hope time and care is given to this person who participated in such horrific acts. I think one or two years or as long as it takes to uncover truth is important. Given the serious threat United States has in terrorism, I think it appropriate to have this man safe and secure in Gitmo for his own physical safety. Im looking forward to the military trial so that truth can be brought out.

      •  I am looking forward to closing Gitmo personally (0+ / 0-)

        There is really no reason for it as we already have prisons to deal with terrorists.  Gitmo remains a mistake when we segregate Muslim terrorists, admitting that our society still does not understand the threat of terrorism comes from the radical RW in most cases.  Reading various threads on various sites, it seems the common consensus is that all terrorism comes from Muslims and that is far from the truth

  •  You've Given Basically the Answer M Dukakis Should (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jlukes

    have given when asked in the debate if he would still oppose the death penalty if a loved one was brutally murdered.

    Yeah I'd want to break his neck too.

    We need to make law when we're calm and thoughtful, knowing full well there will come times when many of us personally would want a more vengeful response.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Apr 19, 2013 at 11:50:22 AM PDT

  •  It doesn't make you a hypocrite. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jlukes, Kimbeaux

    There is the question "Does a human being who has committed certain vile acts deserve to be killed?", and then there is the question "Should any government ever have the legal right to decide to kill one of its citizens as punishment for a crime?", and then there is the question "Should the United States judicial system at this point in time be permitted to sentence convicted criminals to death?"

    They are not the same question.  You can answer yes to any one of them and then answer no to the next.  My own answers are, in order: yes, yes-in-theory-but, and no.

    There are a very few circumstances I can think of where I think I would be willing to kill someone for having committed some heinous act (as distinct from killing someone to prevent them from committing some heinous act).  There are also a very few circumstances where I think I would be justified in that killing.  Again: those are not the same thing.

    And finally ... you may believe you would kill these bastards without a shred of guilt or remorse, but neither you nor I nor anyone else can say that with any certainty.  Not unless and until you have the opportunity to do it, and then find out after the fact.

    •  jlukes, is he a hypocrite? (0+ / 0-)

      Of course he is, if fact, he should be ashamed of himself. He obviously has a confused sole who hasn't an understanding of his own principles to guide himself. I thought his vacillating thought process was rather immature and indicates a man governed by his emotions and feelings. That he admits a desire to kill puts him in a category that is sad.

      •  wow. (0+ / 0-)

        How did you manage to fit so many wrong things into just four sentences?

        •  How did you manage to fit ? (0+ / 0-)

          Be more than happy to answer your question. There is nothing wrong with what I said ( at this point). Sorry if you do not have the capacity to comprehend the obvious. Maybe if you articulated specifics that identifies exactly what you perceive is wrong and why,  I could address your concerns and explain my perspective.

          In fact, if your argument is good enough, maybe I would admit I was wrong. As it is, you appear to simply be intentionally obtuse.

  •  You've realized you are still a physical creature. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jlukes

    Lots of people look around at the stuff we've built and the things we've done - like go to the moon and mapped the heliosphere as well as the genome. Lots of people look at the way we can live in such close proximity with relatively little friction.

    And the sight of such things obscures the simple fact that the Homo Sapien has been around for a hundred thousand years, so there is actually no evolutionary barrier between us right here right now and all of the horrible actions in our species' history. We aren't "more evolved", we are living in the margins of harmony created by our tech. But our tech doesn't stop the animal instincts that still exist from before homo sapiens stopped being nomadic non-farming hunters. That brain wiring from back when we wore dried animal skins for warmth and the survival of our young depended on the safety of our tribe is still in all of our heads.

    So of course that wiring is going to activate when the people we think of as 'tribe' is attacked, bringing you thoughts of punishing the 'enemy' for harming what you consider as part of your tribe. It doesn't make you a hypocrite, it makes you human. So go ahead and be at peace. But don't act on that wiring and initiate some action, because then you throw away all of the cultural advances.

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