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Tar sands of Alberta
Alberta's tar sands
Buzzfeed has the story:
Vice President Joe Biden told a South Carolina environmental activist Friday that he opposes a controversial oil pipeline from Canada, but said he is "in the minority" inside the Obama administration, according to the activist's account of the conversation.
Biden was speaking at South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn's annual "World Famous Fish Fry," and was asked about Keystone by Elaine Cooper, who is a local resident and chair of the state's chapter of the Sierra Club. Buzzfeed received an email from a national Sierra Club official.
"Here's his response from Elaine: He grabbed my Sierra Club hat on my head and said, 'yes, I do — I share your views — but I am in the minority' and smiled."
The Sierra Club opposes the pipeline. Eighteen leading climate scientists wrote a letter to President Obama, opposing the pipeline, and supported a White House protest against it. The traditional media have done a shoddy job reporting on the pipeline's many dangers, but bloggers have assiduously documented what the ostensible professionals have not.

As Buzzfeed continued:

But an official in the vice president's office said Biden's views on the Keystone pipeline remain unchanged, citing a 2012 interview in which he said the administration will make its decision on Keystone only after the State Department — the government body authorized to issue permits for cross-border pipelines — concludes its review of the project later this year.
Which is particularly disconcerting, considering the well-documented blatant dishonesty of the State Department's review, which has received harsh criticism from the Environmental Protection Agency.

The good news is that the vice president wants the president to do the right thing. The bad news is that he says he is in the minority, within the administration. To whom will the president listen? Despite his obvious respect and affection for Biden, don't assume that Obama will heed his vice president's advice.

Originally posted to Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 12:57 PM PDT.

Also republished by Climate Change SOS, DK GreenRoots, Holy $h*tters, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  You make a big assumption, LL: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty, slinkerwink, julesrules39

    That Biden was telling the truth when he said he opposes KXL and that he wasn't just working from the standard triangulatory playbook.

    Now we know: it's a done (if somewhat inconveniently delayed) deal.  I'll be glad to be proven wrong, but the patterns of the last 4 years are fully behind that prediction.

    "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

    by nailbender on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:03:03 PM PDT

    •  biden wouldn't play good cop/bad cop (7+ / 0-)

      to make obama look like the bad cop.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:13:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  By "bad cop" do you mean someone who disregards (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Losty, slinkerwink

        his liberal base?  If so, we're way into bad cop territory already.  

        No, it will be "good cop, conflicted cop".  He'll make a bromide-laden speech that gives all the proper significance to the dangers of climate change and then "counterbalance" that with the mandate that we wean ourselves from oil produced by extremists like Venezuela and Iran (no mention will be made of Al-Qaida nursery and staunch US ally, Saudi Arabia).  And there will be something about jobs in the US and hopeful, uplifiting rhetoric about renewables.

        Biden just made himself a fig leaf.  That's about it.  

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:51:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  there is no half way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sir Roderick

          he approves it or he doesn't. it's not about the liberal base, it's about the issue.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:53:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed that there's no half way. But who, other (0+ / 0-)

            than the liberal base, is making KXL an "issue?"

            And to say that Biden wouldn't say something that put Obama in a bad spot is giving Biden credit for actually thinking before he speaks.  He may do that about half the time, maybe.

            "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

            by nailbender on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:58:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Venezuela? I can't think of even one time when (0+ / 0-)

          the President said anything about needing to wean ourselves from Venezuelan oil.  Most of our foreign oil comes from Venezuela, Nigeria, and Mexico, and I've never heard the President mention any of those countries as being problematic oil sources.

          But the middle east does produce a large percentage of the world's oil, and I know that lots of progressive believe that any military activity in the middle east is "for oil", so reducing the percentage of oil produced by the middle east might lead to fewer military conflicts there, no?

          I'm not for the keystone xl, but it seems that there would be progressive motive to lessening the impact that the middle east has on the world's oil resources.

      •  The only way Obama isn't the bad cop (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        is if he turns down the project.  Are you saying that that's likely now?

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:53:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah he would. (0+ / 0-)

        see: marriage equality

      •  No but he'll play let 'em down easy, Joe. (0+ / 0-)

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Thu May 09, 2013 at 06:16:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Why would anyone, liberal or conservative, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hester, snoopydawg

      support KXL when, if history is any guide, it will prove to be an environmental nightmare; it won't create more than a few dozen permanent domestic jobs, and the refined oil is destined to be sold on the world market, most probably to China?  

      Can paying off campaign contributors and placating TransCanada really be more important than anything else?  If Canada refuses to underwrite the Candian company's pipeline costs and grant the company rights to seize property needed to construct the pipeline across its country in order to access their deep water port, why should we?

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:36:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It already has been (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PorridgeGun, nailbender

        Proven to be an environmental disaster.
        The parts already built.
        How many spills have there already been?  
        Still cleaning up in Kalamazoo, AK, ect.
        If they didn't know that Keystone WOULD be approved, why would they have built so much of it already?  
        And no, for Obama there isn't anything more important then paying off his campaign contributers.
        That has been clear since his 1st cabinet picks.
        Look who we have now in charge of the FDA:Monsanto.
        Finance: Lew from another bank.
        Commence:  the Hyatt crook who ran her bank into the ground.
        I am so disgusted from the betrayal of Yes we Can, and Hope and Change.
        All that is left is Hope he will Change.
        As to the conservatives, they still buy the bunk of getting off foreign oil and jobs.

        Gitmo is a Concentration Camp. Not a Detention Center. Torture happens at Concentration Camps. Torture happens at Gitmo. How much further will US values fall? Where is YOUR outrage at what the United States does in OUR names?

        by snoopydawg on Thu May 09, 2013 at 10:35:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How many temporary jobs would it create? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not for the pipeline because of environmental risk.

        But I keep seeing "It only creates a few dozen permanent jobs" as if the number of temporary jobs it might create don't matter.  As policy, progressives favor government investment in creating infrastructure jobs, even though those jobs will mostly be temporary jobs.  Construction jobs, by their very nature, are not permanent jobs, yet we rightly regard those jobs very highly and worth government investment to create.

        So is the number of temporary jobs that might be created negligible or is it large?  (Just asking to get the facts out there.)

        •  Temporary jobs: creation and longevity (0+ / 0-)
          The most recent report from the U.S. Department of State predicts 35 permanent positions will be created during the operational phase of the pipeline, along with 15 temporary contractor positions. The majority of the jobs created from the pipeline project would come during the construction phase, with about 3,900 estimated temporary construction jobs to be created, according to the state department’s report, which was published in early March.
          If approved, the pipeline is scheduled to be completed within one or two years, with seasonal construction jobs lasting from four to eight months, according to the state department report.
          The difference between these temporary jobs and temporary jobs created by U.S. infrastructure spending is twofold:  Temporary jobs created to build/repair infrastructure put people to work on projects that belong to the people of the United States, not a project belonging to a private company from another country; and there are thousands of infrastructure projects to be done in this country - unlike jobs on the pipeline - giving workers the opportunity to be employed repeatedly instead of one time on one unique project.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Fri May 10, 2013 at 04:57:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  So Biden is a liar, in other words? nt (0+ / 0-)
      •  More like a strategic phrase dropper. (0+ / 0-)

        He's hoping to be able to run for Pres in a few years.  He knows Hillary's State Dept greasing of the KXL skids will hurt her mightily in any primary.  He knows that positioning himself on the other side of that toxic controversy, even if it's just for show, will serve him well as the primary season approaches (god help us all).

        Biden has lied before, to great disastrous effect.  Take the Clarence Thomas nomination hearings that he chaired back in the 90s.  It was a sickening travesty.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Fri May 10, 2013 at 09:46:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  good to hear biden opposes (8+ / 0-)

    hoping that public comments and federal review process and EPA objections will convince the others. :)

    "It is in the shelter of each other that people live." Irish Proverb

    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:16:08 PM PDT

  •  sounds like someone is running for potus (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, david mizner

    he wants to be popular

    •  heh (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the polling on this is not encouraging, thanks largely to the media. biden speaks his mind, for good and ill...

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:44:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In the Democratic Primary? (0+ / 0-)

        It's a free shot to get an issue on Hillary. I don't care that he's taking the right position of politics, but it certainly makes case from a political standpoint. Between this and marriage equality and coming up for release of the torture report, he's amassing some base-friendly left-of-Hillary positions, which he'll need to have a shot in hell.

        •  I haven't heard Hillary take a position on this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          issue, and it isn't always the case that the progressive position wins in the Democratic primaries (and a progressive candidate hasn't won the democratic pres primary in 40 years).

        •  I think Biden's opposition to keystone xl (0+ / 0-)

          is more likely based on his evaluation of the merits rather than playing political games.  But in the end, what's it matter what his motive is?  If a politician chooses to do the right thing because it's politically expedient, well, that's the way things are supposed to work.

          If a politician does the right thing by doing something that is costly politically, then it's an exercise in political courage and something to be commended, but in a certain sense it's not ideally how things are supposed to work.

          Theoretically, a politician would do whatever is politically expedient on any given issue (within Constitutional bounds), and in so doing they'd be doing the "right" thing by definition, in that they'd be representing the will of the public, and so would retain office.  I wouldn't like voting for someone that merely always did the politically easy thing (for example, I'm glad our pols did TARP and the auto bailout, both of which were the politically hard thing to do), but in theory it's a valid way to for a politician to decide what to do.

  •  I would take what Biden said (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty, Ginger1, mightymouse

    with a huge grain of salt. He has nothing to lose by saying this and basically everything to gain, since he is seriously considering a run in 2016. While I love Joe, he has a history of doing this.

    Ryan Lizza reported that the reason why the WH was so upset with him on coming out for gay marriage was cause he was one of the people internally telling Obama to be cautious so as to not alienate white Catholics. But now he's universally known as the guy who smoked Obama out on marriage, which sets himself up perfectly for 2016.

  •  mr pres,quit allowing dangerous/evil lying greed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, julesrules39

    Monsanto is poison,gotta be stopped. Can't afford rich people anymore;must cut back. People like Dick Cheney are evil, don't belong in government. We need @ 9 different revolutions in this country, and may they all crossoverlap soon..

    by renzo capetti on Wed May 08, 2013 at 02:10:12 PM PDT

  •  The bad news is it's not Biden's decision (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, John Crapper

    Judging from the past, the president is unlikely to consider the environmental destruction of the Tar Sands and its pipelines more important than what the fossil fuel industry wants.

    To thine ownself be true

    by Agathena on Wed May 08, 2013 at 02:35:52 PM PDT

  •  I'm afraid we're in for another Friday afternoon (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    announcement.   I hope I'm wrong but the captains of oligarchy are whispering into the ears of the fewer still making it likely that another step will be taken in the wrong direction.  

    If we really want to straighten out all this crap we really need to think about shit - Holy Shit.

    by John Crapper on Wed May 08, 2013 at 04:17:18 PM PDT

  •  Well it was a lovely (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    part of the country while it lasted.


  •  A second proposal for a pipeline larger than KXL (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, cactusgal, pat bunny, snoopydawg

    is under review by the State Department (the Enbridge line 67 extension) which would bring tar sands oil to the Great Lakes.

    Enbridge is the company responsible for the most expensive spill on US soil ever in Marshall, MI in 2010, which has still not been adequated cleaned up.

    I don't know where stands on this one.  But, it seems that our government is not concerned about the water we might need to survive a few years down the road.  

  •  Setting aside the obvious environmental impact (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pat bunny, cocinero, hester, Icicle68

    KXL is going to RAISE GAS PRICES!

    Transcanada said so themselves!  Why would we let them build this stupid thing knowing it's going increase the cost of gas for the Midwest and subsequently all products that come from the Midwest?!?!?!?!

    •  Absolutely. In order for the tar sand disasters to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      be profitable oil prices need to go up--and stay up.
      At around $70 a barrel the KXL Masters of Disaster may only break even. To get squeeze profit from this debacle they need oil at $90 plus. Higher gas prices are necessary for KXL to work. That is the plan.  

      -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down.

      by pat bunny on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:34:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Biden is already running for 2016 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, Fishgrease, snoopydawg

    and positioning himself with the base.  He can say whatever he wants.

    Yes, I'm cynical, with every reason to be.

    Audit the Pentagon: 25% of funding -- $2.3 Trillion dollars -- unaccounted for.

    by roonie on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:08:35 PM PDT

  •  I'm beginning to feel like we're being chased by (6+ / 0-)

    a zombie with no brain, no arms, and one leg.  And it's gaining on us every day.

  •  Of course Biden is "opposed" (0+ / 0-)

    It's a freebie for him.

    2016 here I come!

    The modern Democrat is one who promotes old GOP ideas and calls them progressive in comparison to new GOP ideas.

    by masswaster on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:11:23 PM PDT

  •  What is Kerry's position on KXL? (0+ / 0-)

    Now that he's Sec.of State could he stop it?

  •  Don 't assume that Biden is opposed. Could be a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    White Buffalo, PorridgeGun

    good cop, bad cop routine.  And the pipeline goes thru anyway........but he feels your pain.  Classic triangulation.

    “The road to success is always under construction” --Lily Tomlin

    by CarolinNJ on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:23:21 PM PDT

  •  Color me disgusted with the leadership on this and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snoopydawg, PorridgeGun

    a multitude of other issues.

    "Say little, do much" (Pirkei Avot 1:15)

    by hester on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:29:21 PM PDT

  •  I can't see how Obama can say yes to this mess. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, PorridgeGun

    If he does, I will be so disappointed. He knows the climate change situation. He knows we are putting out so much more oil/gas, we do not need this. Why would he cave?????

    •  i dunno (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      what do you think?

      i mean, think of all the heat the right wing will take off him if he does this! LOL

      Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

      by Boogalord on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:38:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do you really think (0+ / 0-)

      He CAVES?  
      I don't.
      He is the GD president!  
      He usually gives away so much before he even starts negotiating.

      Gitmo is a Concentration Camp. Not a Detention Center. Torture happens at Concentration Camps. Torture happens at Gitmo. How much further will US values fall? Where is YOUR outrage at what the United States does in OUR names?

      by snoopydawg on Thu May 09, 2013 at 10:55:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  KXL blockade ongoing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pat bunny

    I haven't seen anything about this here so I thought I'd drop a link. There has been a blockade against the first section of the pipeline that goes through Texas and Oklahoma and has already been approved. There have been a lot of actions and they have had a material effect. Not sure why it's being ignored here, it's very important.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:31:50 PM PDT

    •  Common Dreams (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Has an article today stating that those who protest against this will be treated as felons, same way as animal right's activists are that video slaughter house abuses.
      1st Amendment rights are dead in this country.
      So is the 4th from wire tapping to the TSA.
      And people freely gave up their Right to the TSA.
      Instead of going along with the increasing abuse of the TSA, I wish more people had protested and stopped flying.
      I did.

      Gitmo is a Concentration Camp. Not a Detention Center. Torture happens at Concentration Camps. Torture happens at Gitmo. How much further will US values fall? Where is YOUR outrage at what the United States does in OUR names?

      by snoopydawg on Thu May 09, 2013 at 11:00:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The all-of-the-above President? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Or the sidling-up-to-the-right President? Or both?

    How his approving KXL would be a good thing eludes me. How would it be something that would benefit the country or the party? If he's thinking "legacy," is this really what he wants?

    It would be a demonstration of his corporatism and his faith in "savvy businessmen," that's for sure. Don't know what either has done for him or us, though.

    The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

    by psnyder on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:37:17 PM PDT

  •  Another gut-punch to the environment (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, wonmug, snoopydawg

    By an administration that didn't even bother to flush out the Bush cronies from the DOI.

    What a complete embarrassment for anyone who considers themselves a Democrat.

  •  thanks for making it official Joe (0+ / 0-)

    Obama knows this will make him look very pragmatic and reasonable. even though it won't.

    Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

    by Boogalord on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:39:03 PM PDT

  •  4th person? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wonmug, Tony Situ
    An email obtained by BuzzFeed from the organization's national program assistant, Jessica Eckdish, provides Cooper's record of the encounter, in which she "was able to ask Vice President Biden if he supporting [sic] rejecting the Keystone XL pipeline," Eckdish writes.
    1) Buzzfeed

    2) Jessica Eckdish

    3) Elaine Cooper

    4) Joe Biden, working a ropeline.

    I'm not saying that's weak. I'm saying that's nearly nothing. No confirmation from Biden's office - and I think we can all agree there probably won't be.

    It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

    by Fishgrease on Thu May 09, 2013 at 06:05:51 PM PDT

    •  Oh gawd, does it ever end? (0+ / 0-)

      It's called a trial balloon. It's supposed to gauge reaction.
      God help us all.

      •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

        May God deliver us from Fishgrease.

        Holy Jeeebus, Amen.

        It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

        by Fishgrease on Thu May 09, 2013 at 06:26:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't have kids, but I still worry.. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          snoopydawg, joanneleon

          about the world we'll live them. And my part in it.

          But, nm....What were you sayin' again?
          Of course, KEYSTONE is no problem.
          President Obama is totally going to oppose it(LMFAO).

          The diarist is a HOF(I hear that's the new term!) liberal.

          •  I don't understand the objection either (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I've had the opportunity to speak to Biden once and it was not a formal press conference or anything -- it was in a train station.   It was during the celebratory period after the 2008 election, on the swearing in day of Congress in fact, so I was more focused on congratulations than trying to get information about where he stood on particular issues.  But if I had gotten some kind of statement about an issue, why would that be different than what journalists do when they ask questions of politicians and report it?  We can all be citizen journalists and when reporting things that politicians say, it what it is.  

            I don't understand the whole argument here.  If he said it, he said it.  He's been an elected official for decades.  He knows that KXL is a hot and highly contested issue.   He knew that whatever he said about it would be tweeted, blogged and reported, rope line or not.  Corporate media of all kinds use social media as a source all the time now.  All of them do.  It's a common occurrence for CNN or the NYT to use it as a source on any given day.  In fact, I think as they continue to cut their staff and reporters on the beat, they rely on it increasingly.  The days of brushing off bloggers and social media are long past. To expand on that a bit, they don't always credit the bloggers and citizen journalists that they take material from (just ask Marcy Wheeler or Kevin Gosztola) but they use it all the time and Twitter is swarming with journalists.

            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Fri May 10, 2013 at 04:36:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The desensitization, softening period has begun. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Relax and enjoy it everybody.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu May 09, 2013 at 06:16:01 PM PDT

  •  Is the VP staking ground to Hillary's left? n/t (0+ / 0-)

    "A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs, who, however, has never learned to walk forward." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    by bayman on Thu May 09, 2013 at 07:20:36 PM PDT

  •  At least Kerry is SOS now. (0+ / 0-)

    At least we have hope that the next decision will be made by someone with a passion for climate change instead of the last SOS who put oil companies in charge of the environmental studies.

  •  He Is In the Majority (0+ / 0-)

    That makes him in the majority as far as the American people are concerned.

  •  Joe Knows (0+ / 0-)

    Amazing how effective the petroleum industry's lies have been on this issue: Baby Blue Pipelines Never Hurt Anyone

  •  Not just Afghanistan, but also going after OBL, (0+ / 0-)

    the Pres disagreed with the VP.  The former for the worse, the latter for the better.

  •  PIPELINE (0+ / 0-)

    Pipelines are organized in accordance with the 1986 Tax Reform Act as Master Limited Partnerships.  They do not pay Federal Corporate Taxes since the Act exempts enterprises organized as MLP’s.   Some of the investors may pay taxes on their dividends.  Pipelines are regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which has a history of allowing pipeline firms to collect taxes and pocket them as profit.  The Commission and its employees are a revolving door between regulator/regulatee.  
    The public needs to know the following:
    Who are the partners and what is their role and contribution to the firm?   Who is responsible for the pipeline’s operation and oversight of maintenance, inspections and public safety?
    The public also has the right to know how all 200 pipeline firms are organized, their profits, taxing programs, investor dividends whether from profits and/or new investors, and there overall safety record.
    An Executive and Legislative investigation of all these matters should be undertaken before any approval of the Keystone XL Pipeline is given.

  •  Doing some catch up reading (0+ / 0-)

    I'm glad that this got reported but I have to say that I don't put a lot of stock in what Biden says he is for or against.  I do think the part of his statement about being in the minority is relevant though -- the most relevant part of the statement and I'm glad that you reported that.

    I'm reminded of Biden in the vice presidential debates saying we are leaving Afghanistan, "period!" or "count on it!" whichever phrase that he used.  Emphatic statements that did not mean a thing since we were, at that very moment, negotiating a SOFA agreement to stay in Afghanistan after 2014 and Karzai just let the cat out of the bag about how we're keeping troops on nine bases in Afghanistan.

    Biden also made emphatic statements about how "we" meaning himself and Obama, would not change Social Security and would not cut it.  This was a blatant lie too, since we now know from Sperling's leaked email that the administration had designed the sequester to do just that, to force Democats to vote for cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

    So the most relevant and probably most reliable piece of information from this report is that the administration is largely in favor of KXL and that nothing that has happened has budged them, apparently (which is not surprising).

    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Fri May 10, 2013 at 04:53:05 AM PDT

  •  Across 3rd World America (0+ / 0-)

    The essential argument is that the XL Pipeline is taking tar sands oil from it's source, in Canada, to refineries and export facilities in the South in America.

    Why not refine it in Canada?  Because the cost of building a refinery is high.  So the Canadian company wants to maximize profits by avoiding producing facilities of their own. Also, they are going across some of the least powerful states in America, some of which are now acting more like 3rd world states than American ones.  BTW, I'm from one of them, sorry to say.

    We're told the risks are minimal. Those who sight that there aren't that many spills also put their fingers in their ears and go la la la whenever you bring up the numbers and impacts of these spills.

    Who stands to gain from this?  Not the federal government.  Not America's pursuit of "energy independence".  Not the American consumer.  You also have to wonder if the sections of the pipeline yet unbuilt will even be constructed with American labor.  

    A long time ago, by Memorial Day, 2009, I realized that this administration wasn't going to fight the good fight for much of anything. Though saddened by that, I voted for the far lesser of two undesireables, even though I knew my vote in a state whose electoral votes would go to Romney was just a gesture.

    Unfortunately, Hillary in 2016 will be more of the same.  I love the woman, but she's got business interest first and foremost in her heart.  When are we going to again get democrats who support the people first?

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