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Watching the replay of the President's speech today I now know why I voted for President Obama. Why I worked so hard going door to door getting out the vote.

President Obama is a smart guy in a tough job.  A job that isn't scripted and requires quick thinking as illustrated today during his speech.

I now know why he is superior to ANY Republican on the face of the planet.

He is a smart guy in a tough job.

Having seen and read what I've seen and read about Rupert's news organizations FAUX "News" should not get a free pass.  

I have reservations about FOX, otherwise I would not use the term FAUX or place News in double quotes ("News").

NO news reporter should get a free pass.  I don't get a free pass and you most likely don't get a free pass.

In the count down to the IRAQ War, I saw what the "unfettered" press is capable of.  The "Unfettered" press jumped on the George W Bush WMD band wagon.  

NO QUESTIONS ASKED!  Hook, line and sinker..... sucked it down.

So you sanctimonious Press Folk should take a good look at yourselves.  

The Press in America had a chance to save thousands of American lives and save this country Billions of $$$ and the Press didn't.  The Press Failed.  

Jumped on the band wagon and went along for the ride with W Bush.

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Comment Preferences

  •  "his citizenship should no more serve as (20+ / 0-)

    a shield than a sniper shooting down on a crowd should be protected from a SWAT team."

    You Go, Mr. President.

    Do we see tragedies? Yes.

    But honestly, it's time to move past the notion that we can mount an unlimited war against a nameless, faceless, stateless enemy, on purely conventional terms.

    This is a smart man speaking:

    Remember that the terrorists we are after target civilians, and the death toll from their acts of terrorism against Muslims dwarfs any estimate of civilian casualties from drone strikes.

    So doing nothing’s not an option.

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Van Cliburn, Ike, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 05:57:13 PM PDT

  •  What does the "unfettered press in the countdown (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice, thomask

    to the IRAQ war" have to do with the current Fox Press controversy?

    They look like entirely different circumstances and results to me.




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    ~ Jerry Garcia

    by DeadHead on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:12:40 PM PDT

    •  Since my above comment (0+ / 0-)

      Doesn't appear worthy of anyone's time as originally posed, I'll try it again:

      The diary is pretty much saying this:

      The press was "unfettered" during Bush, so Obama making it "fettered" is OK.

      Why?




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
      ~ Jerry Garcia

      by DeadHead on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:19:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with you here: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    420 forever
    The Press in America had a chance to save thousands of American lives and save this country Billions of $$$ and the Press didn't.  The Press Failed.
    But so did Democrats.  They had the chance to vote against the AUMF, which of course the majority wouldn't do, but they did have a chance to change it and make it better.

    And they had a great opportunity to change it in 2009 and 2010, but did not.

    •  Magical thinking again. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      onanthebarbarian

      Yeah, the Dems could also all resign in protest of drone strikes but they don't. How horrible.

      The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

      by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:38:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, considering that the Democrats were (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        exterris, 420 forever, PhilK, PhilJD

        the majority in the Senate when the the AUMF was voted on, I can imagine a scenario where they could have negotiated it not being so broad.  

        •  Again, magically thinking. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sunbro, jan4insight, Larsstephens

          The idea that all that was needed was a vote from the majority party,which features notorious hawks like Hillary Clinton-though she wasn't there at that time, is magical thinking.

          The idea that the Republicans and MIC would just go along worth it is magical thinking.

          Barack Obama campaigned on a certain but slow withdrawal from Iraq, but a redoubling of efforts in Afghanistan. What would those people have thought if he just said "nevermind"  and pursued the opposite action?

          Magical thinking includes the stripping of political reality and context in order to assert that our fondest wish could have been obtained.

          The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

          by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:34:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're right, it is magical thinking that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PhilK

            the Democratic majority in the Senate would stand up to Bush.

            Just like it's magical thinking that the Democratic majority would stand up to the republican minority in the Senate now.

            Barack Obama campaigned on a certain but slow withdrawal from Iraq
            i.e.,
            Bush signed The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement, which called for U.S. combat forces to withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011
            Although Obama did try to get that extended, the Iraqis wouldn't go for it.
            •  The President had capmpaigned on leaving a (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sebastianguy99, ybruti

              residual number of troops, around 3500 in Iraq after his troop pullout. Even so, at the end, he wanted to leave less...around 2000 troops there for training purposes. So his eventual pullout without leaving any troops, because the Iraqi's wanted to be able to prosecute U.S. soldiers in their courts, was far beyond his campaign promise....

              I know it is hard to give the President credit for anything positive, but the President would have still maintained his campaign promise even if he had left 2000 troops there....

              By the way, I think we have more than 2000 U.S. troops i
              in Germany

              •  And Japan and ..... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NedSparks

                I also like the idea that for the first time in my life, the public trusts a Democratic POTUS with foreign policy. I do not want to give away that advantage.

                I believe there are better and more progressive ways to defend our country. I do not believe any Republican will choose those policy proposals.

                In short, the imperfection of the Obama foreign policy are not enough to convince me believe that there were far better alternatives easily available but not chosen.  

                The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:23:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Do you have a link to that campaign speech or (0+ / 0-)

                brochure where Obama campaigned that he would still maintain troops in Iraq even though the The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement called for all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011 and was signed by both Bush and Iraq?

    •  Rank and file Democrats favored AUMF. (0+ / 0-)

      Dems in Congress favored it.  All Democratic candidates for president except Kucinich (and maybe Gravel) favored it.  Why would you expect Dems to vote against AUMF?  Dems wanted to go after Al Queda and the Taliban that was harboring them just as much as Repubs did.

      Iraq is a different issue.  Lots of rank and file Dems opposed it, and lots of Dems in Congress opposed it, but not enough.

  •  His Response When The Code Pink Protestor..... (19+ / 0-)

    repeatedly interrupted his speech today.....gave me
    pause.

    He is actually quite an extraordinary human being.  Under relentless pressure, he just scored an ace.  Yes....Guantanimo is still open.  Yes..... prisoners on a hunger strike there are being force fed.  Yes....we are doing it.  

    And.....Yes, this protestor has a right to speak of such things, even during my speech.

    Now, some will say he has to do this after the AP scandal.
    He has to appear receptive & not one to stifle free speech.

    If so, it just happened in front of millions of people.  

    •  Speech & response to protester, top notch, classy. (9+ / 0-)

      I agree with your assessment of him largely. Of course I have my own gripes but the only person I can think of that can approach his gravitas in the WH is Hilary. O'Malley would be a great VP. All the Rethuglican likely nominees are idiots. Christie is far too crass and the tea party primary voters won't nominate him.

    •  She was there for herself. (15+ / 0-)

      He was willing to answer her but she refused to hear him out. She got her attention, got arrested, has applause from a certain segment, and nothing changed.

      What a wasted opportunity to really have made some points in an exchange with the leader of the free world. You sure will not have such an opportunity in Russia or China.

      The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

      by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:41:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Code Pink unfortunately only protests (10+ / 0-)

        I don't think the group is diplomatic at all.  I completely understand where Code Pink and the protester are coming from but unfortunately, every time I heard the words "Code Pink," I think disruption.

        Seriously, I think Code Pink still believes we're living under the President Bush even though President Obama actually listens where Bush never did.

        •  In The End, She Came Off As Shrill...... (9+ / 0-)

          While she had the opportunity largely given to her by the President, she could have had a real conversation in front of the nation.

          Now she just seems disruptive, aimless, provocative, this side of annoying.

          However, I have to admit I enjoyed it when Code Pink stopped Karl Rove in his tracks on his book tour.

          OK.....I admit it.  I don't like people screaming at my President.  But that's just me.  

          •  I agree (10+ / 0-)

            I don't like people screaming at President Obama either unless he's seriously doing bad things to everyone in this country, which he's not.

            I have no problem with Iraq War or war protesters protesting but we're over President Bush's tenure.  If war protesting is all that this Code Pink representative cares about at this point, why doesn't she actually help people get back to work or volunteer at a food bank or something?  Why doesn't she get involved in foreign policy?  All these constant protests really add no productive value to this country, especially considering life is too short and there's a lot one can do by getting involved as a diplomat.

            Yeah, just imagine:  If Code Pink protesters became diplomats instead.  They might actually make a difference.

            And by the way, we have an anti-Vietnam War protester as Secretary of State:  John Kerry.  If there's anyone this Code Pink person should be talking to, it's him because he leads the foreign policy arm of the U.S. government.  Kerry would listen even more even if the Code Pink person protested.  We don't have neoconservatives in foreign policy at the U.S. State Department anymore.

        •  The shrill left, counterpart to the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mwm341

          Tea Party.

    •  Notice that her first 3 or 4 outbursts didn't (12+ / 0-)

      get her dragged off immediately. As would have, and has, happened at a Bush speech. He let her talk, he didn't make snide comments, as Bush did. But after a while, when he wasn't getting nasty, I think she didn't like that she wasn't really interrupting much. Didn't have a video of being dragged off in cuffs, and didn't like it. So she got up again and just refused to stop. Then she was lead off. And I don't think it was in any sort of rough way, from what I could tell. AND, after she was so disruptive, he praised her points, and appreciated them.

      I get tired of folks who say that Obama doesn't believe in free speech. When the proof in how he responds to protesters is right before them.

      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

      by second gen on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:15:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's doing a great fucking job as far (21+ / 0-)

    as I'm concerned. He's facing about as difficult a situation as any president has faced (aside from Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR). He's got a horrible economy that is not of his doing, war and terrorism, and a Congress hostile to the United States. And he's keeping us safe without invading other countries with troops, and he's making the economy slowly better, and he's using the bully pulpit (though not entirely successfully) to try to change minds about gays and guns and the environment. And he is personally above reproach and his family is wonderful. I'd give him an A+. Our next president, no matter who it is, will be a giant step down for us. I rue the day Obama will step into that helicopter and fly away.

  •  I agree wholeheartedly (14+ / 0-)

    no matter what, it always comes back to this  for me.. we have an intelligent man who is doing his best,  and his best is pretty damn good. i seriously cannot think of another person who could be doing better.
    the job is massive , complex, grinding, and difficult.

    Barack Obama also  came from the middle class and lived a regular life.. he is real. look at most of those who inhabit the top tier of politics, in comparison.

    i have been accused of supporting him blindly, but truly it isn't that. i think many simply do not reflect for a single moment on the swampy muck and mire a person steps into when they assume the presidency...do not consider the enormous tangle and push and pull of it all.

    we are all imperfect . that we have a smart, thinking, honest, dedicated person at the helm, is not a small thing.

    there was a lot of thought behind this speech..searching , rational thought..how rare is that in D.C.?

  •  Shame on us, Kossacks (11+ / 0-)

    President Obama gave an amazing Policy Speech - thoughtful, honest, nuanced, and difficult to critic the facts and reasoning, yet NOT one Dairy on the Rec list giving the Present what he deserves - applause and respect!

    •  For myself (4+ / 0-)

      I heard this speech in 2009.

      4 years later, the President has failed to keep his promises on this subject.

      Sorry, no applause.

      And no shame for me.

      •  President Obama (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro, Vicky, never forget 2000

        is POTUS, not DICTATOR! Basic American Civics - we have a Congress and they have a role in governance.

        President Obama did not fail to keep his promise.
        Remember, even Dems were saying NIMBY? The knee-jerk response to criticize the President or even refuse to acknowledge any good his does is shameful and absurd.

        I know the rationale for the hatred...never mind.

        •  That is nonresponsive (3+ / 2-)
          Recommended by:
          Jeff Simpson, PhilK, Kickemout
          Hidden by:
          SaintC, mwm341

          As Commander in Chief, the President has enormous power over our foreign policy and counterterrorism policies.

          Do you even know what the speech today was about?

          Remember what about what?

          As for your accusation of racism, yes I read between the lines, well that is simply despicable of you.

          Your stupidity is only matched by your offensiveness.

          •  HR'ed for (0+ / 0-)

            personal attack. Discuss the issues and not resort to insults and personal attack.

          •  I don't think you hate Obama, Armando. (0+ / 0-)

            And I certainly think you are far from being a racist. But are you going to give President Obama kudos when he does things you do like?

            I haven't seen your comments much here since around 2006 when both you and I were cheering the same ideas, but are you one of the liberals here who are just playing Johnny one-note (and by the way, I unfortunately have seen enough of these to last this decade), criticizing, and not publicly realizing that this may be one of the top 2 or 3 Presidents of our lifetimes?  I honestly don't know where you stand.  I respect your intellect, but I don't pretend to know exactly how you view this President overall.

            -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

            by sunbro on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:34:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Have you read me before? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sunbro, tardis10

              Hell, did you read my defense of the legality of Obama's drone policy (though not the wisdom)?

              If you have not seen my comments since 2006, maybe you should take a look at my posts. I write Sunday essays mostly.

              •  I'll make it a point to read them, Armando. (0+ / 0-)

                Thanks.

                As you can tell, I'm weary from all the attack dialog. I sometimes wonder whether people really have more than one reaction to everything around here.  Like the Blackslpoitation Movie character "Shaft", they seem to have only two emotions: angry and more belligerent.

                (h/t Franklyn Ajaye)

                -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                by sunbro on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:42:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Of course (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sunbro

                  It's funny for me because Obama is a lightning rod. On my drones post, I was abused as an Obama apologist for hundreds of comments.

                  When I criticized the President post partisan style, I got hundreds of comments attacking me as an Obama hater.

                  I really try to address the substance.

                  the speech today was a little troubling for me not in what it said, that was largely good, but that I heard it 4 years ago almost to the day and I praised it to the heavens then.

                  Only to see the promise of that speech not matched by action.

                  And no, I'm not talking about closing Gitmo, which I don't actually agree with (Super Max is not better), I'm talking about due process, the Geneva Conventions and the Laws of War.

                  A promising approach was squandered. I hope that now that reelection has been secured, real changes are in store.

                  But I think criticizing folks for action before cheering and accusing people who hold that view of racism is pretty despicable.

                  •  Okay, this seems very reasonable. (0+ / 0-)

                    Yes, some who are often displeased with Obama are racists, but I do not believe you are among them.

                    From the above, you seem to have an even-handed approach to the issues.

                    Also--I agree with your opinion on Supermax prisons. I would never come close to being in one, as I am practically a saint (haha), but I don't believe that even the most horrible people should be treated that way.

                    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                    by sunbro on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:14:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  And I really applaud your respect for due process. (0+ / 0-)

                    A civilized society, a "shining city of a hill" as they say, should respect due process.

                    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                    by sunbro on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:16:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  BTW (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sunbro

              this diary is incoherent in the first half and below thee fold simply offensive, if, as I think it does, it endorses criminal prosecutions of journalists for publishing leaks.

              I have not seen what you recommend lately but I see you recc'd this diary. I'm curious what you thought merited the rec?

              •  I rec'd the diary because (0+ / 0-)

                I don't even think of Fox News as being a news organization. Anyone who works for Rupert Murdoch is someone I'd have a difficult time trusting. If a Fox News reporter (and most of them have never met a war they did not like) is being investigated. and from what I've read, this did not include wiretaps, I am very skeptical when I hear that some believe he did not deserve it.

                Fox News is partly responsible for Bush having been elected in 2000, and for causing the 8-year nightmare we called "The Bush Administration". If it were not for Fox News having called Florida for Bush in 2000, we probably would not have gone to war in Iraq.  

                Heck, even 9/11 may not have even happened on Gore's watch!

                BTW--Have you already read this from The Atlantic? It's fascinating.

                -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                by sunbro on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:05:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Arrgh. Reluctantly uprated to counter HR abuse. (0+ / 0-)

            Armando, your comment was abusive and false.  You were not accused of racism.  Check your attitude, FP'er.

            •  Hard to take you seriously (0+ / 0-)

              when it is obvious I was accused of racism, REPEATEDLY.

              BTW, just curious, if I was accused of racism in your mind, would my response have been justified in your mind?

              In my mind , now in retrospect, it wasn't.

              But I think it did mitigate my reaction.

      •  The May 21 3009 speech (0+ / 0-)

        link:

        These steps are all critical to keeping America secure. But I believe with every fiber of my being that in the long run we also cannot keep this country safe unless we enlist the power of our most fundamental values. The documents that we hold in this very hall -- the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights -- these are not simply words written into aging parchment. They are the foundation of liberty and justice in this country, and a light that shines for all who seek freedom, fairness, equality, and dignity around the world.
        Sound familiar?
        •  The difference (0+ / 0-)

          to me: is that the passage you quote is generalized, abstract.

          Today I heard nuanced, complex parsing of how to put those ideals into practice in the real world.

          How does a moral, thoughtful person make those ideals into action, when the stakes could be no higher: life or death.  Fascinating and remarkable.  And it showed a great deal of respect for the American people, and our ideals.

          So, nope, I didn't hear this in 2009.  I'm not sure I've ever heard something like this from a President.  He's far, far from perfect, but we are lucky to have him as President: even when his decisions are those I disagree with, his processes seem to me real, honest, and worthy of the office.

          •  Read the whole speech (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            claytonben

            There is actually a specific proposal on detainee policy.

            To be honest, the 2009 speech was much more concrete than today's/

            I would reverse your assessments. For example:

            The second decision that I made was to order the closing of the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. (Applause.)

            For over seven years, we have detained hundreds of people at Guantanamo. During that time, the system of military commissions that were in place at Guantanamo succeeded in convicting a grand total of three suspected terrorists. Let me repeat that: three convictions in over seven years. Instead of bringing terrorists to justice, efforts at prosecution met setback after setback, cases lingered on, and in 2006 the Supreme Court invalidated the entire system. Meanwhile, over 525 detainees were released from Guantanamo under not my administration, under the previous administration. Let me repeat that: Two-thirds of the detainees were released before I took office and ordered the closure of Guantanamo.

            There is also no question that Guantanamo set back the moral authority that is America's strongest currency in the world. Instead of building a durable framework for the struggle against al Qaeda that drew upon our deeply held values and traditions, our government was defending positions that undermined the rule of law. In fact, part of the rationale for establishing Guantanamo in the first place was the misplaced notion that a prison there would be beyond the law -- a proposition that the Supreme Court soundly rejected. Meanwhile, instead of serving as a tool to counter terrorism, Guantanamo became a symbol that helped al Qaeda recruit terrorists to its cause. Indeed, the existence of Guantanamo likely created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.

            So the record is clear: Rather than keeping us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security. It is a rallying cry for our enemies. It sets back the willingness of our allies to work with us in fighting an enemy that operates in scores of countries. By any measure, the costs of keeping it open far exceed the complications involved in closing it. That's why I argued that it should be closed throughout my campaign, and that is why I ordered it closed within one year.

            The third decision that I made was to order a review of all pending cases at Guantanamo. I knew when I ordered Guantanamo closed that it would be difficult and complex. There are 240 people there who have now spent years in legal limbo. In dealing with this situation, we don't have the luxury of starting from scratch. We're cleaning up something that is, quite simply, a mess -- a misguided experiment that has left in its wake a flood of legal challenges that my administration is forced to deal with on a constant, almost daily basis, and it consumes the time of government officials whose time should be spent on better protecting our country.

      •  What was the speech on drones in 2009 again? (0+ / 0-)
    •  Be the change you seek (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sure once people realize the rhetoric really does match the actual decisions made and the results those decisions have produced, the rec list will lavish praise accordingly.  




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
      ~ Jerry Garcia

      by DeadHead on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:15:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've just seen fairly long snippets of his (10+ / 0-)

    speech on Lawrence O'Donnell. God, I was impressed.
    He laid out the difficulties beautifully. Level-headed, truthful, rational, reasonable. Someday books will be written on just how difficult the first black president's job was. Some of us can only see it dimly as yet.

    His critics on both sides are either naive, unrealistic, irrational, unreasonable, or pathologically hate-filled.

    My long-term assessment, taking him all in all with all his mistakes included: he's the right man in the right place at the right time.

    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

    by Wildthumb on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:35:49 PM PDT

    •  A similar speech in 2009 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      420 forever

      and little change.

      Sorry, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice . . .

      I'll wait for the action to applaud.

      •  Why are you (0+ / 0-)

        spamming the thread? Gosh, it never ends...

        •  Yeah Armando. Why are you spamming the thread (0+ / 0-)

          with 2 whole comments?

          “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

          by 420 forever on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:25:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey, Armando, we should all apologize for the (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Larsstephens, SaintC, Jeff Simpson

            racism (yes, all of us) but here's a big shock for you: Barack Obama is every bit as good a human being as you are, or ever can be. He's one hell of a leader who has taken far more abuse than most of us could bear, and borne them well, with equanimity and humanity. Yes, I defend the first black leader to the hilt, and to the wall.

            I've never seen a president make a more truthful and existential speech than this. "These deaths will haunt us." Who the fuck else has EVER talked like this?

            Sorry.

            "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

            by Wildthumb on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:46:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good for you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DeadHead

              I'm sorry if you think I should be docile in the face of a charge that my criticisms, when I DO criticize him (I didn't here). of the President is rooted in racism,

              You think that is cool? You think that is a sign of good people? I do not.

              I think you can think Obama is the greatest person in the world (personally I can not imagine how you could know this) and cheer to your heart's content.

              I hope you will not insist that if some of us, for good reason you may not agree with, don't follow your path you won;t be calling us racists as a result.

              For one thing, Obama deserves more coherent defenses than that.  

              •  You're not being coherent yourself here. You're (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SaintC

                still sputtering with indignation and anger to do that.

                No, I don't call people who disagree with me about Obama as being anti-black automatically. But many are. And more on the left than many on the left will admit to. Till they actually work on it in groups as I have. Yes, I'm racist myself, AND sexist. I didn't want it, but I've got it from my crazy upbringing. But I don't argue with it or defend it anymore. I've got it. PERIOD. I think my defense of Obama is okay; I don't need to write a frickin' "well-organized diary" to do it.

                And yeah, I stick to it: Not only is Obama as good as you, I too am your peer and can criticize you. You're not above us all, with all your arrogance. And Jesus, over all the diaries have I seen your massive holier-than-thou stance. You must be a joy to live with. Whew.

                "Those deaths will haunt us." Blazing honesty. Unprecedented. Too bad your venom about Obama blinds you to that.  

                "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

                by Wildthumb on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:02:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hmm (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DeadHead

                  I'm pretty sure that this discussion stemmed from someone calling ME racist, not the question of whether racism exists or not and whether it is directed at Obama.

                  I don't know of any intelligent coherent person that would deny they exist.

                  But coherence demands understanding the context of the charge and the discussion. You seem to have missed it.

                  I happen to agree with you that we are all generalized by social conditioning to racism, sexism, tribalism.

                  On Sunday I criticized the President's political style and argued that it was not effective for forwarding his policy goals.

                  Of course the backdrop to this is the fact that Obama is black. That is always a factor to consider. But it is not the only factor, and not always the most important factor.

                  Let me conclude with a critique of you - your last line demonstrates your inability to discuss the President rationally. Faced with a critique that is based on fact, whether correct or not in conclusion, you write:

                  Those deaths will haunt us." Blazing honesty. Unprecedented. Too bad your venom about Obama blinds you to that.
                  Let me start with a rational point. I feel extremely confident that it is not unprecedented and that your blazing love for the President is what leads you to such hyperbole.

                  But that is fine by me.

                  What I find astounding is your belief that I my venom blinds me to that.

                  Could you consider that possibly I disagree with you and maybe from your point of view, I might just be wrong, not filled with venom? Did you consider that possibility?

                  Did you consider the parts of the speech I cited to you? Do you have a COHERENT response to them? Judging from your comment, and the emotionalism displayed, I'd have to say no.

                  Look, I am happy for you that the speech today moved you so. It's great to feel that way.

                  I did on May 21, 2009 for a different Obama speech. The difference is nothing much changed on thoise fronts for the past 4 years. I think it is fair, no, it is RIGHT of me to say I'll wait to see the action.

                  If that described "venom in your mind, so be it. I think it says something about your emotional commitment to the President. And that's a nice feeling.

                  •  Thanks for all this. But You are completely blind (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SaintC

                    to how freaking arrogant and condescending you are. You radiate it. And yes, I admit I may have missed the context. I was just picking up on your holier-than-thou demeanor, which sets me off. This blog reeks of it. Reeks.
                    "Let me tell you how stupid you are. And you must listen. I know everything." That's a summary of some of you. Oh, yeah, now I'll listen. I always listen to my betters.

                    I'm not your student, your serf, your hireling or your underling. I'm a grown man, a veteran, a husband, a staunch, hands-on environmentalist, and a working-class Italian who has been around that human block four million times. Get down from your five-hundred-mile-high horse. No one's ever told you perhaps you might be an arrogant know-it-all? I doubt it.

                    Find me another president who ever divulged something like that statement. It is unprecedented. Jefferson? Kennedy? Roosevelt. Even Lincoln? Anybody? It's honest as hell. And human. I'm not blinded by my "emotionalism"
                    to sum up your argument.

                    Grow some humility. You might be easier to listen to. When a person drips with arrogance they're very easily dismissed out of hand. So there's no learning and no progress.

                    Have a nice evening.

                    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

                    by Wildthumb on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:33:42 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Great being a woman, (0+ / 0-)

            Love, respect, and adore my mom, wife, and sisters because they are powerful women. Having said that, I am a guy, not a woman.

            Won't go down the swamp you are going with you.
            It's obvious who is insane....

  •  I don't understand the diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DeadHead

    What about the speech made you write what you wrote above the fold? I am sure that there was much about the speech that was admirable (I remember a 2009 speech on the same subject that I thought was great but much of what was said had zero impact on Executive branch policy. I'm gonna write about that.)

    Below the fold, you write about Fox getting a free pass; I assume you are referring to James Rosen.

    I have no idea what you mean by "free pass," but are you actually supporting a criminal proceeding against Rosen? Really?

    And this diary is recommended?

    Shameful.

  •  Poopsmith : (0+ / 0-)

    Smart guy in a tough job.

  •  What president--what political leader (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SaintC

    voluntarily gives up power or even proposes it. Kudos Mr. President. If you do this, you surely will have earned your Nobel.

    Keep fightin' for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't you forget to have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous, ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce.---Molly Ivins

    by never forget 2000 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:59:13 PM PDT

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