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1,090,017

1,090,017

1,090,017 Concealed Carry Permit holders in a state of 19,300,000, 20% of whom are under 18.  That leaves about 15,700,000 adults.  1,090,017 out of 15,700,000.  One in every 14 has a Concealed Carry Permit, and is theoretically carrying a hidden gun.

It's a great place to live, I've been here for nearly 30 years now... but when one in every 14 people you see in this state could be carrying a hidden gun, perhaps it's time to rethink what a great place Florida is to live.

No state income taxes.
Low cost of living.
Nice sunny weather.
Beaches.
Water.

Yeah, that about covers the good stuff.

1,090,017 Concealed Carry Permits holders, and counting.  They are everywhere.  Your barber, he carries.  Your server in your favorite restaurant, though you'd never know because it's hidden, he carries; as do several of the diners in any busy restaurant at any given moment. Take a look around.  My neighbor down the road who can barely open his mail due to Parkinson's, he carries.  Your mechanic?  He could be carrying.  Your grocery store cashier?  You betcha she could be.  Go to a theater, park or mall and look around.  Do you see 13 other folks? Odds are, one of them could be carrying a pistol and only they know it's there.  If you are there with 3 family members, then one in every group of 10 that you see is possibly carrying a highly lethal revolver or semi automatic, full magazine + 1 in the chamber, in their hidden holsters or in their pockets or purses.

These folks can carry a gun with them, often hollow-point loaded, and by mandate of law, they must be hidden.  Whether driven by fear or driven by machismo, many like to carry their precious life-taking guns EVERYWHERE, like to run to the grocery store as this guy did.

We're not talking about all gun owners here in Florida. We're not talking about the millions of Floridians who have a gun in their homes for self-defense whether the need is warranted or unwarranted.  This is just the small percentage of gun owners who actually feel the need to take the requisite training course and get a license to carry a loaded gun, hidden on their person.  

If you can't actually make it to a CCP class for that training, fret not.  $39 and you can take the class online at places like this, and then get any certified firearms instructor to sign it, send it to Tallahassee and wait a couple of months.  Congratulations, you become CCP holder #1,090,018 and reduce the odds even further, that the rest of us can avoid interaction with you and your secret little pistol.

What are the odds that all 1,090,017 are of sound mind and body at all points in their day? One would hope that all of them possess the physical and mental acuity necessary to undertake the process of producing their implement of death and using it, justifiably, in full accordance with the law and cognizant of the full and far-reaching ramifications of their actions. Holding onto that hope would be stupidity, as the odds of them all hitting that standard is zero.

Is it supposed to make me feel safe, having all these gun-toters around, ready to take up arms and kill somebody? Even if it's on my behalf if they turn a corner and happen upon me getting mugged or otherwise victimized, say, in a fight that I may have provoked in the first place.  Somehow I don't get that warm, fuzzy feeling of assurance, I just don't feel more secure.  

Don't come to Florida folks, not to live nor even vacation, it's just not safe anymore.

Originally posted to YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:37 AM PDT.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA) and Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I am surprised how few registered guns are (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YaNevaNo, gramofsam1

    used to commit crimes. Of course, one is too many, but  total gun violence has not gone up with increased gun ownership. Yes, the potential for unimaginable carnage is there, but, somehow it hasn't materialized. Well, we can't depend on luck forever, so let's support President Obama's initiatives to reduce Gun Violence, it's about time.

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:53:32 AM PDT

  •  America is an armed madhouose (14+ / 0-)

    As long as we keep on terrorizing each other the 1% will keep on looting us.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:56:36 AM PDT

    •  And according to the link, our CCP holders are (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FloridaSNMOM, greengemini, splashy

      your CCP holders.

      Take our Online Gun Class. And your permit is good in 35 States

      Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas Colorado* Delaware
      Georgia Idaho Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky
      Louisiana Michigan* Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska
      New Hampshire* New Mexico North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma
      Pennsylvania South Carolina* South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah
      Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wyoming Florida

      *Some states may require you to be a resident in order to qualify. Read more....

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:38:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  as long as we keep on terrorizing each other (8+ / 0-)

      with a danger that is actually decreasing every year the 1% will keep looting us, it's like Bush with his orange alerts.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:44:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  BOYCOTT! (11+ / 0-)

    Until Florida repeals SYG and tightens up gun ownership laws, fu(k Florida. Y'all screwed up.
    Tourist season is over for this year but people need to be reminded of this from now right through next winter. Hit Florida where it hurts: the Tourism/Conference trade.
    When Anita Bryant went on a homophobic rampage, decades ago, we boycotted Florida Orange Juice, effectively. Took me years to go back to Florida citrus after that. Looks like I'll be searching out non-Florida OJ again.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:58:23 AM PDT

    •  Yep, I agree, Boycott FLA (9+ / 0-)

      I wonder if the many Convention Centers in the state advertise the fact that we are turning into an armed encampment...

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:03:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Zimmerman case (8+ / 0-)

      had nothing to do with SYG.  Zimmerman's actions as the jury understood them were valid self defense actions in any of the 50 states.  This because according to the case as described by the prosecutor Zimmerman had no option to escape as he was being pinned by Martin.

      Please do not allow the repeated media narrative to distort the facts of the case and the law which impacts it.

      •  True to the extent the case has gone so far (0+ / 0-)

        In the event of civil litigation though, the SYG laws could still come into play.  As I understand it, GZ can request a SYG hearing and though he will be compelled to testify at it, if he succeeds and convinces the court, then the SYG ruling would grant him immunity from civil suits.  I think.

        Life on two wheels is life in balance

        by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:45:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  SYG emboldened Zimmerman to act as he did (11+ / 0-)

        knowing that he could fall back on "self-defence" if he ever got caught. SYG creates an atmosphere that promotes bullies and endangers everyone else.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:45:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You make this bold comment without (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher

          having any way of proving it and there is no way you could know what Zimmerman was thinking.

          In addition I disagree with your conclusion regarding SYG as there have been no long term studies to support your assertion.

          You seem to want to peddle your opinion as fact.

      •  Without SYG, the crime scene would have been (10+ / 0-)

        treated like a crime scene and Zimmerman would have been under arrest for the killing of Martin as soon as the cops got there.

        He would have still been free to try to make bail, and he could have tried to advance a self defense argument at trial.  But from the jump, this homicide would have been treated as a crime.

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:26:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People continue to be (9+ / 0-)

          immensely myopic about how crucial it was that Sanford police did nothing at the scene of the crime. This ruined the case for the prosecution. By their own admission, the reason why Sanford PD did nothing was because of SYG.

        •  that's not entirely true... (5+ / 0-)

          We went over three local use-of-force incidents in my concealed carry class.  Two of the three went home on the night of the incident.  One was arrested but later released without charges being filed.  The two who went home were called to testify by the Grand Jury, which ultimately no-billed (e.g., refused to indict) their cases.

          This is in the blue state of New York.  Two of the incidents happened at home, one out in the public space.  The public space one was one of the two that got to go home on the night of the incident.

          Whether or not you're arrested at the scene depends on many factors.  The totality of the evidence on-hand, the reputation of the actors involved, the confidence the police/DA have in being able to locate you if they let you leave, injuries you may have sustained, etc.

          A good concealed carry instructor will prepare you for the possibility of arrest, and instruct you as to what to say ("I was afraid for my life, I'd like to speak with my attorney now."), as well as what not to say (anything else!), but it's not a given that you'll be arrested on scene, SYG or no SYG.

          There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

          by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:49:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  A "good" instructor will advise you not to be (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YaNevaNo, greengemini, freerad

            a paranoid freak who enjoys putting others in danger, and suggest that you grow up and lose the dirty harry fantasies that are motivating you to go lurking around in public clutching a pistol under your jacket.

            NOT

            A good concealed carry instructor will prepare you for the possibility of arrest, and instruct you as to what to say ("I was afraid for my life, I'd like to speak with my attorney now.")
            coach you on getting away with throwing away lives.

            Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

            by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your attributing serious mental health (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PavePusher

              issues to a fellow poster which is against site rules.  It is also rude and childish and speaks of you lacking anything substantial to say.

              •  There's no diagnosis there. Just a flatly (0+ / 0-)

                honest statement about how grotesquely irresponsible it is skulk around clutching a loaded pistol in public.

                Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

                by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:22:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Citation to your claim, please. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Crookshanks

                  Your hate-mail will be graded.

                  by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:52:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You are stating a personal belief. (0+ / 0-)

                  Not an honest statement.

                  An honest statement would be one which identified those who legally carry as less likely to commit serious crime than both the average citizen and the average police officer.

                  That is a statement of fact backed by evidence of two peer-reviewed research papers.

                  Your statement is not and it is filled with prejudiced language "grotesquely irresponsible",  "skulk", and "clutching" are all loaded words.

                  The more you engage in such dishonest tactics and representation the more I shall call you on it and expose them for what they are and the less credibility you will have in future conversations.

            •  Distortion, much? (0+ / 0-)

              Your hate-mail will be graded.

              by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:51:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I don't believe that is the case (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher

          nor do I believe that much if any evidence could have been collected since it was outdoors and raining.

          There would be scuffle marks at the scene as well as quickly diluting blood at the body.  That evidence wouldn't help in anyway because the body was present - they don't need to establish someone was dead because they know someone was.  What other forensic evidence could lead credence to either claim and additionally what such evidence would be preserved in that environment?

          I think people assume far too much capability of forensic sciences and the ability to utilize existing capability by the average department.

      •  You are wrong. (0+ / 0-)
        had nothing to do with SYG.
        I just caught a snippet of a TV show interviewing one of the jurors. Paraphrased: "Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground."
    •  Disney, Hyatt, Universal Studios - they can (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YaNevaNo, greengemini, ichibon, splashy, myboo

      get whatever the fuck they want out of that state legislature.

      You don't have to boycott all Florida products (I know the citrus growers directly backed Bryant, different), just pick somewhere else for you vacations and encourage all friends and loved ones to do the same.

      If Disney can get our copyright laws extended over and over and over on a national level, you can damn sure bet they can get insanely permissive concealed carry laws and warped "license to kill" laws overturned in one State.

      Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

      by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:25:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Better make sure of your travel plans: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, CarlosJ

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:14:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have to object: (13+ / 0-)

    Just because somebody has a permit to carry a gun does NOT mean they are a "George Zimmerman".

    That's offensive and stupid.

    It overlooks a number of things such as how big a loser the person is and other personality artifacts I cannot describe here.

  •  No desire to ever go there (8+ / 0-)

    Smells bad, flat, ugly, jungle hot, full of bugs and crazies. Will be happy when it is reclaimed by the Atlantic Ocean in 50 years or so.

    Just another day in Oceania.

    by drshatterhand on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:03:26 AM PDT

  •  it's a collective psychosis (8+ / 0-)

    people there must feel unbelievably insecure
    imagine spending your whole life being afraid
    it's really rather sad

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:14:36 AM PDT

  •  Concealed weapon (14+ / 0-)

    I live in Florida and have had a concealed weapons permit since '88. Amazingly I have not ever shot anyone. If you don't like Florida you could move to Texas there is plenty of room. And if you don't want to vacation here don't. Don't however judge us all by a poorly prosecuted case.

    •  Yet (7+ / 0-)

      If you carry, then you should probably qualify your I never shot anyone with a "yet" at the end.  If you don't see that as a possibility, why would you carry?  People carry so they can have the ability to shoot people.

      I'm not judging anyone here, and I'm certain that there are times when qualified permit holders do the right thing, but to imagine that because you haven't shot anyone, nobody else will, is anecdotal evidence at best.

      Texas?  LOL, bad enough here, but thanks for the offer anyway.

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:28:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You're not being judged by the case (9+ / 0-)

      You're being judged by the politicians the people of FL vote for, the idiotic laws they pass, and then the continued support for those politicians.

      It is that patern of legislative abuse that FL is being judged by.

      •  Truly astonishing how many (4+ / 0-)

        vote AGAINST their own self interest in this state.  I've lived in NY, NC, IL and here. FL takes the cake in this regard.

        Life on two wheels is life in balance

        by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:26:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please cite what "idiotic laws".... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YaNevaNo

        contributed to this particular court verdict.

        Specifics, please.

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:25:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No duty to retreat from danger (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          a2nite

          Zimmerman was emboldened by the portion of the Stand Your Ground laws that effectively says that a person can go pick a fight, put themselves in danger, and that person then has no duty to retreat from the dangerous situation.  Instead, he can stand his ground right there, and fight to the death.

          Which is exactly what Zimmerman did, exactly as the laws says he could.  Zimmerman put himself in that situation knowing full well he could legally shoot his way out.

          •  Your ignorance of the intent, wording.... (0+ / 0-)

            and application of the law is interesting, but irrelevent to the discussion.

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:57:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  P.S. (0+ / 0-)

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 02:00:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nope, duty to retreat was earlier (0+ / 0-)

              As soon as Zimmerman suspected that Martin was a criminal and called 911, he should have left it to the police.  If he suspected that Martin was dangerous, he had  a duty right there to retreat, in order to better defend himself from a safe distance.

              Instead he stalked and hunted Martin and created a situation where Martin had to defend HIMSELF from an agressive stalker.  Zimmerman deserved to get knocked down for being a racially profiling nut job who attacked a kid.

              Zimmerman had no right to become a vigilante.  But that's what the Stand Your Ground law allows.  It allows a person like Zimmerman to charge into danger, guns blazing, claiming self-defense rights the whole way.

              •  Citations needed, please. (0+ / 0-)

                What part of Florida's SYG law applies to Zimmerman and where was it used in his trial?

                I'll note there is no proof of who initiated the physical conflict, but merely following someone in public does not entitle anyone to commit violence on the follower.  Or vice versa.

                Your hate-mail will be graded.

                by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:52:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In the minds of the jurors (0+ / 0-)

                  I'll give you citations if and when the book deals come out.

                  Sounds like in your mind also.  So Zimmerman racially profiled, stalked and hunted a kid.  And if that kid then got scared and threw a punch in self defense against a creepy guy following him, well then Martin deserved to die, right?

                  Just another guilty punk off the streets, right?

      •  Not sure (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        YaNevaNo, Norm in Chicago

        it's the law that was the problem in this case, rather those charged with enforcing, investigating, and prosecuting. Though Florida does have some idiotic politicians and laws, I'll give you that.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:30:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  May we judge you by the corruption and venality (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      S F Hippie, YaNevaNo, a2nite

      of the public officials you call your "leaders"?  May we criticize a banana republic which forced a fraudulent President on the rest of us who knew better?  

      Floridians have exactly the government they want.  

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:59:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, as a person that carries a hidden gun (0+ / 0-)

      How do you feel about others not being happy with you hiding it from them so they can't decide for themselves if they trust you, and taking away their ability to get out of the line of fire?

      I would prefer open carry, so I could see where that gun is pointing, and decide if I trust the person with it or not for myself.

      Is that too much to ask? Does your freedom to hide the gun trump my freedom to protect myself by being fully away of your gun?

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 12:45:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it's too much to ask. (0+ / 0-)

        My right to privacy outweighs your concerns.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:04:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your right to "privacy" (0+ / 0-)

          Outweighs my right to life and health?

          Pitiful attitude.

          I'm not against you carrying a gun, the least we can do is compromise and make it open carry so the rest of us can protect ourselves.

          Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:45:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My right to privacy isn't infringing upon (0+ / 0-)

            your right to life and health.

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:12:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is if you have an "accident" with the concealed (0+ / 0-)

              Gun that I couldn't get away from, or at least get out of the line of fire, because I couldn't see it.

              Seriously, hidden guns = no way to know where they are pointing. Isn't that the first law of gun carrying, to make sure that it's never pointed at anything you don't want to shoot?

              People put guns in coats, purses, and other places where they are hidden, but the guns can still be pointed at someone in those places. They carry them into restaurants, bars, and other public places. It would be better if they were in a holster where they can be seen and are pointed down.

              I feel it's a compromise to have open carry. Why wouldn't you? Why do you want to hide it?

              Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

              by splashy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 12:32:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It's one of the rules, correct. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                andalusi

                I'd love to have open carry if the idiots out there who go OMG A GUN CALL THE POLICE!!?!eleven!! would stop with that. I've open carried. It's much more comfortable. I'd rather do that. If open carry becomes as common and drama free here in Michigan as it currently is in Arizona, I'd be all for it. I'm not for making it mandatory. Choice is good.

                It's not an accident by the way. It's negligence. And my privacy still outweighs your need to know.

                Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                by KVoimakas on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:00:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  My 85 Year Old Father-In-Law Has A Gun (5+ / 0-)

    Him and his wife are old time Republicans that think it's the same party it was in 1953.  Then 2001 came and the SCOTUS pronounces its selection for President.  Welcome FOX News, Rush and all the other radical right-wing nuts.  They listened to them all.  The result, at the age of 83 my Father-In-Law buys a gun for "Protection".

    I wonder, out of the 1,090,017, how many are over 65?

    Once you leave the womb, conservatives don’t care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. -GC

    by cobaltbay on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:26:01 AM PDT

    •  Same thing with my ex In-Laws (5+ / 0-)

      Suddenly, at age 74, he comes into the room with a shiny HUGE 357 magnum, flashing it around for us all to be impressed with, especially my preteen children that were in the room at the time.  "Oh don't worry, it's not loaded".

      We couldn't get out of that house fast enough that day, and curtailed my kids going to see grandma and grandpa because of it.

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:34:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd be a bit wary! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YaNevaNo, greengemini, splashy

      based on this type of story . . .

      Baltimore City Police are questioning an 82-year-old man for shooting his granddaughter in Northwest Baltimore last night. Police say the man thought his gun was loaded with blanks when he discharged it inside a home on Garrison Blvd. The 17-year-old girl was shot through a wall and hit in the arms and left leg. ..
      .

      link

      •  Yep, no more sleeping at Grandma & Grandpa's house (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greengemini, splashy

        and I could probably count on one hand the amount of times after that day when the kids were there without me or my ex.

        Sad.

        Life on two wheels is life in balance

        by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:31:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now *that* is a compelling reason (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          YaNevaNo, greengemini

          not to go to Florida!

          speaking of all the elderly exercising their second amendment rights - to me that's way more scary than the SYG clusterfuck.  

          although I'm sure the two things combined are synergistically even worse.

          •  that's a bit ageist, don't you think? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YaNevaNo, PavePusher, CarlosJ, splashy
            speaking of all the elderly exercising their second amendment rights - to me that's way more scary than the SYG clusterfuck.

            There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

            by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:11:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I suppose so (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              YaNevaNo, greengemini

              but for whatever it is worth, the CDC puts out similarly ageist screeds:

              Older Adult Drivers: Get the Facts

              In 2009, there were 33 million licensed drivers ages 65 and older in the United States.3 Driving helps older adults stay mobile and independent. But the risk of being injured or killed in a motor vehicle crash increases as you age. An average of 500 older adults are injured every day in crashes.1

              Who is most at risk?

              •Per mile traveled, fatal crash rates increase starting at age 75 and increase notably after age 80.

              •Age-related declines in vision and cognitive functioning (ability to reason and remember), as well as physical changes, may affect some older adults' driving abilities.5

              link
              •  n/t (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PavePusher, YaNevaNo, CarlosJ

                Old people with guns don't occupy much of my thoughts, except insofar as they might have some knowledge to impart upon me when I bump into them at the range.  I don't worry all that much about old people on the roadways either.  If experience has taught me anything, I'll meet my death behind the wheel because some self-important 20/30-something ran a red-light while texting.

                Pet driving peeves of mine that have nothing to do with age:

                1) Distracted driving, texting, playing with the GPS, wiping the big-mac grease off your shirt, doesn't really matter what.

                2) People who think their right-on-red trumps a green left arrow.

                3) People who come to a complete stop behind someone turning left, then cut over into the right lane where traffic is moving at full speed, because they're too impatient to wait 30 seconds while the guy completes his turn.

                4) People who speed through construction zones and tailgate me when I refuse to do the same.

                There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:00:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I only have a motorcycle (0+ / 0-)

                  No car for the past 11 years or so, and I ride with no helmet.  Can we add idiots who throw cigarettes out their windows, nothing I like more than dodging hot embers coming my way.

                  Life on two wheels is life in balance

                  by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:33:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You're crazy.... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    YaNevaNo, PavePusher, splashy

                    .... I'm Libertarian minded with things like helmet and seat belt laws, but I would never ride a motorcycle without a helmet and full leathers.  If I'm giving up my steel cage and crumble zones I want all the protection I can get.

                    +1'ed you for the cigarette addition though.  Forgot about that particular pet peeve of mine!

                    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

                    by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:43:44 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  LOL So I get told, fairly often (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Crookshanks

                      Some days folks look at me like I'm crazy.  Not sure if it's the lack of helmet as I prefer to think they are admiring some of my tattoos but when the weather gets crappy, be it cold or rainy, and they see me rolling down the road with a big smile on my face anyway, I know it throws some of them for a loop.

                      Thought about getting a windshield a few years back but I just knew it wouldn't be the same so I passed.

                      Life on two wheels is life in balance

                      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:57:45 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I get the same thing, even though I wear gear. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Crookshanks, YaNevaNo

                        ATGATT for me.

                        But I ride as soon as the snow vanishes off the road. Sometimes that means it's 5*F and I'm bundled up. Other times, I'm riding through snow (like when I visited my mom on mother's day this year) and then there's the torrential downpour times.

                        If I can physically ride, I will. Ice/snow on the roads are the only things that drive me off them.

                        I did end up getting a fairing though. It really helps when the temperature is below freezing even before windchill.

                        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                        by KVoimakas on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:39:38 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Heh...! (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        KVoimakas, Crookshanks, YaNevaNo

                        I ride in all weather as well (got used to it when commuting through two British winters), but I wear full gear.  This is by choice and by regulation as a serving military member.  It's saved my ass (and precious skin) at least once.

                        And it's always fun to pull up to a light in a howling rainstorm, flip up my visor, wave to the kids in the back seat of the car next to me and watch the expressions on the driver's faces....

                        Your hate-mail will be graded.

                        by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:42:56 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yeah man, not sure what it is about youngsters (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          PavePusher, KVoimakas

                          but they do seem to LOVE motorcycles, I'm guessing it's the noise.  I was one of those kids once, and now I haven't been without a bike since the mid-college days.  Used to drive cars, had two of them once, but my kids each ended up wrecking one of them, then got their own cars with the insurance money from the wrecks and presto!, I was carless... not exactly sure how that worked.  

                          Life on two wheels is life in balance

                          by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 02:57:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, we saw a guy run a red light (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  YaNevaNo

                  He stopped at the light, then went as though it was green, all while talking on the phone. We were astonished! The light didn't turn green for at least 10 seconds or more after he ran it. He was just really really lucky no one was coming from the other direction!

                  Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                  by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 12:50:05 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Inside the home? (5+ / 0-)

        What a moron. It's possible for a blank round to injure or even kill.

        http://propguys.com/...

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ageism, now? (0+ / 0-)

      Tut, tut.....

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:27:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You do realize that now, after Illinois passed (16+ / 0-)

    their civilian concealed carry law, ALL 50 states allow some form of civilian concealed carry? Some allow open even. There are, of course, the may issue states (think Cali or New York or Hawaii) but over 40 states have shall issue concealed carry laws or BETTER.

    So if we take your logic to the same conclusion, you suggest leaving the US?

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:22:11 AM PDT

    •  Easier to get a CCL in Pennsylvania than Florida: (14+ / 0-)

      "Are you a felon?  Have you been committed?  Were you dishonorably discharged?  Have you been convicted of domestic violence?  No to all of those?  Do you have $26?  Yes?  Here's your license to carry firearms."

      Took me all of twenty minutes.  Welcome to Blue America.  

      P.S., I had a unrestricted pistol license in New York State too, before I moved.  Could carry anywhere in the State, outside of NYC and the usual off-limits (schools, courthouses, etc.) places.

      There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

      by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:42:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wow (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greengemini

        I grew up on Long Island, and the only guns we ever saw were BB guns.

        Life on two wheels is life in balance

        by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:06:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You missed a few teachable moments then.... (10+ / 0-)

          .... not to mention a lot of fun practicing a skill that's been around for hundreds of years, one that I find to be a very effective way to relieve stress and enjoy a nice day outdoors. :)

          Self-defense is one of the reasons why I own firearms but it's not the only reason or even the most important one.

          There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

          by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:08:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, truth be known... (0+ / 0-)

            I'm a gun guy.  I own several.  Doesn't stop me from lamenting the CCP holders growing to 1.1 million, and who knows where it will stop.  I shoot only paper and clay, with varying degrees of proficiency, and though I own several pistols, none of them has ever been left loaded for emergency use or left the house at all unless it was to go the range.
            Couldn't agree more about the stress relief, as the only stress I ever have at the ranges are the careless way others often approach range shooting.

            Life on two wheels is life in balance

            by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:11:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Lamenting" the exercise of a Constitutional Right (6+ / 0-)

              Wow.

              Do you "lament" people voting as well?

              Or gathering in public?

              Or refusing warrantless searches?

              Your hate-mail will be graded.

              by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:00:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I don't have a problem with CCP..... (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KVoimakas, ER Doc, YaNevaNo, 43north, oldpunk

              .... but I'm not the stereotypical NRA member either.  I don't like SYG laws, New York State has a duty to retreat, and it's worded such that it only comes into play if you can "retreat with complete safety as to yourself and others".  If you can actually do that then why the hell would you want to shoot someone?  Deadly force is a LAST RESORT, when the situation is truly "Kill or be killed."

              The proper mindset is conflict avoidance.  The closest I've come to defending myself in recent times was a road rage incident, dealing with some pissed off piece of trash (he had truck nuts, to give you perspective) that kept trying to get out of his car and approach my window.  I ran three red lights before he finally gave up.  I figured it would be easier to explain the traffic violations to the police than to explain why Mr. Asshat was lying on the asphalt with a face full of OC spray.

              There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

              by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:10:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Nassau and Suffolk had a combined total of (4+ / 0-)

          80,000 to 100,000 pistol permits when you were a kid.
          I give rough figures at the digital permit number may not reflect persons deceased, or who moved out of those Counties.

          Most were "Restricted to Employment" or "Restricted to Target Shooting and Hunting Only".

          ALL required that firearm to be "concealed when carried upon the person of the permit-holder".
          Thus you should have never "seen" any handguns.

          In NY, where it takes an Act of God for you to get a pistol permit (or political patronage, which is how the system was designed to function) - you view many costly hurdles as "the way it is".

          Move to another State, as Crookshanks illustrated, and "the way it is" leaves you asking (repeatedly) about the "next steps".

          Need to see the gun?  Serial number?  Caliber?  Fingerprints? Bond? Safe? Type of ammunition?

          "Nope.  You came in, let us know who you are, where you live and that you have a gun.  That's worked well-enough for years.  Guess you're new around here.  We're not like where you came from."

          The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

          by 43north on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:19:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I got mine by mail (7+ / 0-)

        My PA non-resident LTCF took a week to obtain, including first-class mail both ways.

        Now, they require the application to be submitted in person.

        Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

        by Tom Seaview on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:51:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  My logic? (0+ / 0-)

      When did I suggest anyone should leave the state or the US?  If you would be so kind as to point that out in my diary, I'll be happy to edit it, because that was not my intent.

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:53:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "don't come to Florida" (9+ / 0-)

        How do you apply that to all of the country? Don't come to the US?

        Don't come to Florida folks, not to live nor even vacation, it's just not safe anymore.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:09:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          splashy

          Leaving is not the same as don't come here.  Think of it more of a PSA that lets potential visitors know that 1 out of every 14 folks they encounter here could be carrying.  Never suggested anyone leave anywhere.

          Life on two wheels is life in balance

          by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 08:15:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This is where I see the logic KV was referring to, (11+ / 0-)
        It's a great place to live, I've been here for nearly 30 years now... but when one in every 14 people you see in this state could be carrying a hidden gun, perhaps it's time to rethink what a great place Florida is to live.

        Don't come to Florida folks, not to live nor even vacation, it's just not safe anymore.

        One shouldn't live, visit or move to Florida, why? Because too many people that aren't felons, that aren't convicted domestic abusers, that haven't been declared mentally unfit, that have undergone background checks, gotten fingerprinted and undertook some training are legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Seems to me logic would dictate feeling the same way about any state with similar laws.

        Since all 50 states have some sort of provision for concealed carry ( California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island are may issue states, we don't know what the law will look like for Illinois but the rest are shall issue or unrestricted) the options for living, visiting or moving to any state is rather limited.

        As for me, if I would use anything as a factor to determine where I would live, visit or move to, I would use crime rates and based on what I've been able to find it looks like Florida's crime rates are a bit higher than the national average. People who go through the trouble of getting a concealed carry permit don't concern me in the least, criminals on the other hand... So if I do ever visit Florida again maybe I should go armed ;-D? Will have to check and see if Florida has reciprocity with Tennessee.

        You eat a lot of acid, Miller, back in the hippie days?

        by oldpunk on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:44:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "...we don't know what the law will look like" (5+ / 0-)

          "for Illinois but the rest are shall issue or unrestricted) the options for living, visiting or moving to any state is rather limited."

          Actually, we do know what the law looks like, and it is shall issue. Chicago is now the largest city in the country with shall issue CCW.  A complete reversal from a few years ago thanks to the  Federal courts enforcing the Constitution.

          As if we needed any more proof that the War on Drugs is stupid, a Kennedy is supporting it.

          by wishbone on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:25:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I would rather it be open carry (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YaNevaNo

      So we can see who has guns and where they are pointed.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 12:51:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  splashy (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, YaNevaNo

        since the 1920s, NYS has issued concealed-only licenses.

        To be honest, the Sullivan Law was completely a fabrication of the Tammany Hall Machine; seeking to ensure firearms in the hands of Democrats, and Tammany Hall-dependent Democrats, first, last and always.

        As a law?  Given the abuses?  Not so good.

        As a practice?  That a gun should only be seen when the law (NY Penal Article 35) gives cause for the use of force, and/or deadly physical force?  
        Really damn good.

        Zimmerman, pursuing Martin, would violate Article 35, and Zimmerman would be safely ensconced in Ossining, awaiting final disposition of his term of incarceration.  (assignment of prison)

        The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

        by 43north on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:55:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But why should it only be conceal carry? (0+ / 0-)

          It takes away our freedom to see where the guns are pointing, and to get out of the line of fire.

          Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 12:53:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  In other words (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YaNevaNo

      There are many people who have the potential to "accidentally" shoot others without other people having the chance to protect themselves by getting out of the line of fire.

      Yeah, we all feel so much safer.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:14:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  having lived in Florida (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, YaNevaNo, ban nock, JesseCW, splashy

    I'm not so sure that the "no state income taxes" is part of what makes it a great place to live.

    In fact, I'd argue the reverse.

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:35:51 AM PDT

    •  Alas, you are most defintely correct (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a gilas girl

      Not sure why I think of that as a positive, it sure doesn't seem like it most of the time.  I sit corrected.

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:55:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nor even cheap. (0+ / 0-)

      Florida charges 6% sales tax, upon which counties can add up to 1.5%.  Florida property taxes are quite high as well;  these are charged by more local authorities.  

      "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

      by Yamaneko2 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:18:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Already boycotting FL nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, YaNevaNo, splashy

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:45:46 AM PDT

  •  But that doesn't help...When (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YaNevaNo, splashy

    we have two main roads that lead directly to international waters, there is crime of smuggling drugs and guns and yes corruption.  The thing to do is invade with ideas and policy to clean up Florida.   It has turned blue twice here and it is the state and local governments that are so bad.

    We took West down with a vote and we will get Scott out.
    The problem is the corruption falls on many who have come to Florida from their own homestates and  and made big money.  Jeb Bush is not from Florida.   Scott is not from Florida.  The natives are basically friendly.   The corruption preys on the elderly and poor and disabled which Florida is full of.  Help us become liberal not just blue.   We need lots of liberal in this state to help change things from the inside.   We have Alan Grayson.   There are good people here and the media preys on the fear of those that are vulnerable.   We need to change the demographics of thought process from those who have come here and made it different versions of hate.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:07:27 AM PDT

    •  Yes, there has been lots of corrupt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vetwife

      People that came into Florida and ruined it.

      But, there are lots of locals that are very very prejudiced, and think that blacks should be "in their place." I grew up there, and heard it for all my childhood in the 50's and 60's.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 01:39:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No way would I come here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YaNevaNo

    If I was Canadian or European.  I would go to Cuba instead - much safer.

  •  So, after all that fear-mongering, I have to ask (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    meagert, VClib, YaNevaNo, CarlosJ, oldpunk

    How many convicted criminals each year are from the CC-permit catagory?

    Please demonstrate the actual scope of the problem you've found.  Inquiring minds....

    Your hate-mail will be graded.

    by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:11:24 AM PDT

    •  Dunno, maybe you can tell me... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      splashy

      As for the fear mongering, seems to me that those who walk around armed, ready and potentially willing to shoot someone other than themselves are the ones who live in fear, just like GZ, who wouldn't even go the store without his deadly security blanket.

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:45:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, they aren't a problem.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk

        yet you continue to try to whip up fear about it.

        Irony, you seem impervious to it....

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:03:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not seeing it (0+ / 0-)

          I am not trying to whip up fear about anything.  People either fear things or they don't, it is not for me to decide. As for me, I don't fear the gun guys, sorry.  Most of the GZ types would be more likely to fear me, owing to the Harley and tats, clothing etc.

          Life on two wheels is life in balance

          by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:31:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your own words: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YaNevaNo, CarlosJ
            Somehow I don't get that warm, fuzzy feeling of assurance, I just don't feel more secure.  

            Don't come to Florida folks, not to live nor even vacation, it's just not safe anymore.

            If that's not about fear, what, pray tell, is it about?

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:35:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again, I was merely pointing out (0+ / 0-)

              the volume that I find staggering.  Approaching 1.1 million,  That's a lot.  I'm not trying to get into constitutional issues, or even gun control issues, though I see they got here anyway, that was not my intent.

              My observations you quoted are not meant to instill fear in folks, as fear is not something external forced upon people, fear is internal.  Some have it, some do not.

              I'm just blown away by the number, that's all.

               

              Life on two wheels is life in balance

              by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 03:16:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That part I quoted wasn't about numbers. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                YaNevaNo

                It was apparently about "assurance", being "secure" and "safety".  

                If you don't feel safe, you must, axiomatically, be fearful.

                I'm not trying to be pedantic here; if you truely don't feel fear about this, then what, pray tell, is the problem?

                Your hate-mail will be graded.

                by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:57:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do you not find that number staggering? (0+ / 0-)

                  I do.  Almost 1.1 million.  In this state alone.  That we know have the capability and the permit to carry, I can't imagine the real number when you factor in those who carry without a permit.

                  Where do you live?  Do you have a more than a million fellow citizens potentially walking around armed with no way for you to know who is and isn't carrying?

                  I was comparing the FL of today vs. 30 years ago, when we had fewer CCW permit holders.  Having more than a million now doesn't make me feel any more secure than I did before.  Never said I don't feel safe either.  I am at peace with my surroundings, and don't fear death.  If I did, I likely wouldn't ride these roads with all these WONDERFUL drivers, or at least I would wear some protection.

                  Fear is something that some are born with, I was not one of them.  Well, maybe dentists, just a wee bit.

                  Life on two wheels is life in balance

                  by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:14:33 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I don't find it staggering. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PavePusher, KVoimakas

                    I find inspirational.

                  •  1.1 million people.... (0+ / 0-)

                    EXERCISING A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT AND OVERWHELMINGLY NOT BEING A PROBLEM.

                    Maybe you're right.... that is rather incredible, isn't it?  I wonder why other states, for example California, New York, Maryland, New Jersey and Illinois seem to have so many problems.....

                    I'll note that 30 years ago, Florida was a "may issue" state, with permit issuance left to the "discretion" of local Sheriffs.  Historically, around the nation (but especially in the south), that overwhelmingly meant (and continues to mean) that if you were of other-than-Anglo-Saxon decent, no-permit-for-you.  Unless you were very wealthy and paid off, excuse me, "gave political contributions to "the right people".

                    In 1987, they changed that.  I have not yet seen a study that seems to indicate it caused lowering of public safety and security.  

                    As I stated elsewhere, I currently live in Arizona.  We have "Constitutional Carry", i.e. no permit needed for concealed or open carry, as long as one is not a prohibited person.  One can get a permit from the state to allow carry in a few otherwise restricted areas, and for reciprocity with other states not so enlightened.  It requires a one-day class including a short range session.

                    State population is approx. 6.5 million.  The Phoenix metro region has approx. 4.2 million people, Tucson, where I live, almost 1 million.  We sit directly astride one of the largest drug/person-trafficking routes in the U.S.  And yet lawful carriers, permit or not, do not seem to be of any particular concern in over-all crime stats.

                    My home state is Vermont, with a total population of just over 600K.  Largest metro region, Burlington, has a tich over 200K souls.  They are the original Constitutional Carry state, with neither concealed or open carry requiring a permit for over 240 years.  No problems in evidence.

                    Now if, as you claim, you do not feel unsafe, why did you claim your state was not safe?

                    Don't come to Florida folks, not to live nor even vacation, it's just not safe anymore.

                    Your hate-mail will be graded.

                    by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:05:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  It would be more useful to compare gun ownership (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpunk

    rate and percentage of residents with CCP in different states. I doubt FL is at the top of the list for either.

  •  I want to KNOW where the gun is pointed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YaNevaNo

    I want there to be no conceal carry at all.

    Give the rest of us a chance to avoid being shot by at least letting us know where the guns are and where they are pointed.

    Don't let people sneak around with them, pointing them at all kinds of people carelessly.

    Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

    by splashy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:48:29 AM PDT

  •  20% under18? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YaNevaNo

    In the interest of truth in advertising, you might need to recheck this.

    You must be at least 21 years of age unless you are a servicemember, as defined in Section 250.01, Florida Statutes, or you are a veteran of the United States Armed Forces who was discharged under honorable conditions.

    •  18 to own a firearm in Fl, 21 to get a CCW permit (0+ / 0-)

      I see my mistake, thanks for pointing it out.

      20% of the population is below 18 so that was the number I chose to get the amount of adults.  In retrospect, I should have used the age of 21, as nobody below that is getting a CCW permit, so in essence, that increases the average closer to 1 out of every 13 people you see could theoretically be holding a piece.  

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 03:27:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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