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Would you be willing to pay an extra 68 cents for a Big Mac if McDonald's decided to double the pay of employees to $15 an hour. Hell's yeah.

According to Forbes, the cost of a Big Mac would only go up $0.68.  

The beauty of this is that it comes from Forbes, which in no way is part of the librul (sic) media conspiracy.

Follow me below the fold for details.

A research assistant at the University of Kansas School of Business decided to check what effect a raise might have on the overall cost of food at the world's largest fast food chain. Forbes has previously run similar articles about how much paying for employees health care would add to the cost of a Papa John's pizza.

Pouring over annual reports and investor generated data, Arnobio Morelix discovered that if McDonald’s workers were paid the $15 they’re demanding, the cost of a Big Mac would go up 68 cents, from its current price of $3.99 to $4.67. A Big Mac meal would cost $6.66 rather than $5.69, and the chain’s famous Dollar Menu would go for $1.17.

“Some folks online are complaining they will not pay $2 for their Dollar Menu, but the truth is that even if McDonald’s doubled salaries the price hike would not be 100%,” Morelix said. “I will be happy to pay 17 cents more for my Dollar Menu so that fast food workers can have a living wage, and I believe people deserve to know that price hikes would not be as high as it is often portrayed.

Claire O'Connor of Forbes reported that Morelix said his number crunching assumes profits and other expenses are kept at the same absolute number. His calculations are based on increases in salaries and benefits for every McDonald’s worker, from minimum wage line cooks paid $7.25 an hour to CEO Donald Thompson, who made $8.75 million in 2012.

In light of the growing number of fast food walkouts in major cities, this data could not come at a worse time for the Illinois-based fast food giant. July has been a particularly bad PR month for McDonald's with its ridiculous bogus McBudget that magically allowed McDonald's workers to survive on a minimum wage job by adding a second imaginary job and not paying for such frivolous expenses such as heat.

Snip.

The impossibility of doing so has been attested to by everyone from writer Barbara Ehrenreich in her book Nickel and Dimed to noted obstetrician Cliff Huxtable, in that episode of The Cosby Show where he uses Monopoly money to teach young Theo the value of a good income. It has also been attested to by the people trying to do it. But all that notwithstanding, the McBudget insists it can be done.

It envisions monthly take-home pay of $2,060 from working two (!) jobs. Out of that, you pay $600 for rent, $150 for a car note, $100 for insurance (home and auto), $100 for cable and phone, $90 for the electric bill, $20 for health insurance, etc. You save $100 a month and have $750 to play with — if, by “play,” you mean pay for clothing, child care and water. Also, gasoline, maintenance and repair for the 1997 junkmobile you’re able to buy for $150 a month. Oh, and food. Can’t forget food.

I don't eat McDonald's that much anymore, which is a good thing. I only tend to eat it while on long road trips because many highway rest stops have McDonald's or when I am coming back from the airport at 3 am and nothing else is open in my town. I would certainly pay an extra 68 cents for a Big Mac. I think most Americans would as well.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Much Less If (6+ / 0-)

    There's actual capitalism taking place and the wealth from success is shared and not headed to the top, and investors, to hoard!!

    "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

    by jimstaro on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:16:37 AM PDT

  •  $3.99 seems to be a cutoff point for many (7+ / 0-)

    people
    Sire 68 cents may not seem like a lot to many people but those that say that I bet aren't eating at McDonald's. As a percentage of the cost that's a pretty steep jump to close to $5.00. Recently McDonald's got rid of the angus burger which was $5 because no one was buying it - too expensive. McD's knows to the penny what they can charge

    •  It's a psychological barrier like $5/gallon of gas (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heavy Mettle, Lilyvt, Tool, Tonedevil

      McDonald's has record profits the last few years since they introduced the dollar menu. They can certainly absorb the cost increase. Maybe use smart marketing like buy one and get the second one for $2 or something to make people feel like they are getting a bargain. It is certainly worth a shot.

      •  or $1 gas, or $2 gas, or $3 gas, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tool, Tonedevil

        or $4 packs of cigarettes . . . if you want it badly enough, you'll pay.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:07:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wage raises would have to be industry wide (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, Heavy Mettle, wyckoff, FG

      McD's knows that people will buy a $3.99 burger at another chain instead of buying the $5.00 angus burger. If wages were raised incrementally over 3 years people would get used to the 23 cent per year increase in the cost of a burger, but it couldn't happen at just one chain or people would notice.

      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

      by FishOutofWater on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:31:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  two words: Dollar Menu (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dirk McQuigley, Heavy Mettle

      on which the McDonald's customer, depending on the location, can find such values as a 1$ cheeseburger or regular burger, etc...
      There's usually something for everyone at a McD's, no matter the budget.  
      Burger King also has a value menu, called something else- forget the name.

      Anyway I rec'd this diary because if freaking Forbes is pushing a raised minimum wage then that is something of an event.

    •  If you're buying burgers for a family of 4 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, Heavy Mettle

      or more, I would think it would be prohibitive in all too many cases.

      Hopefully it would induce that family to spend that amount of cash on fresh veggies.

      "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

      by Sybil Liberty on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:59:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Diarist Doesn't Understand Low Income People (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heavy Mettle

      A 68 cent price hike on a $3.99 product is significant, especially when many of your customers have little money. While I live comfortably today, I still vividly recall my days of counting every penny and at times going hungry because I ran out of money before my next paycheck.

      McDonald's is a very profitable corporation and there is no need to suggest that they should force their customers to foot the entire bill for decent pay. McDonald's owners should cover  all or nearly all of the bill.

  •  I haven't eaten in a McDonald's in 25 years (3+ / 0-)

    and I expect I never will again, but I agree with your point.  

  •  $20/month for health insurance! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirk McQuigley, Samer

    Just where are they getting that.  My insurance costs many times that.  The only way I see that employees could get a policy for $20/month would be if the employer paid most of the premium.  And I would bet that given the low wages that McDonald's is paying that this isn't the case with McDonald's.

    •  More from Leonard Pitts Jr (7+ / 0-)

      I REALLY should read this guy more. He is so spot on:

      As you might expect, the McBudget is mildly controversial. Washington Post blogger Timothy B. Lee called the figures “realistic” and praised McDonald’s for “practical” advice. This seems to be a minority opinion. ThinkProgress, the left-leaning website, called the budget “laughably inaccurate.” Stephen Colbert skewered the company, saying a $20 health insurance premium will buy you “a tourniquet, a bottle of Night Train and a bite stick.” In the Wall Street Journal, columnist Al Lewis suggested that McDonald’s $13.8 million man show us how it’s done by volunteering to live on the McBudget.

      The most vexing thing about that budget is its condescension. Take it from this welfare mother’s son: If there’s one thing poor people do not need, it is lessons in how to be poor. To the contrary, you will never meet anyone who can wring more value from a dollar.

      We’re talking every trick of layaway and two-day-old bread, coupon clipping and off brand buying, Goodwill shopping, Peter robbing, Paul paying and plain old going without. You ever hear of a jam sandwich? That’s when you “jam” two pieces of bread together and call it lunch. Heck, if you handed the federal budget over to a couple welfare mothers, we’d be in surplus by December.

      I love that last sentence.
    •  Ya know.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Dirk McQuigley, corvo

      I have questions about much of their inventive costs.  
      Rent-$600?  Where I am that gets a studio, maybe.  And not in a very nice neighborhood.  
      Cable/phone-$100?  Really, where is that, I'm moving there.  
      $20-health insurance?  WTF?  What are they smokin'?  Not even close.
      What a ridiculous 'budget'.
      Let their CEOs (ya know, the ones getting $8.75 million a year) try living on cheap pay for a year, let alone their whole lives, and see how much whimpering/whining/complaining comes from these fat cats.

      I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

      by Lilyvt on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:43:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even MORE from Leonard Pitts Jr. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lilyvt, Tinfoil Hat, jennybravo, Tonedevil

        The conclusion of the same column:

        Look, there are many reasons people wind up in poverty. Sometimes they make bad life choices — they drop out of school without salable skills, or they become teen parents. Often, it falls on them from the sky in the form of illness, injury, addiction or financial reversal.

        However they got into poverty they all need — and deserve — the same things: a way to work their way out and to be accorded a little dignity while they do so. The former comes with paying a living wage, the latter by treating people with respect and not presuming to teach them what they could teach you. McDonald’s fails on both counts.

        The McBudget is a McInsult.

      •  rent $600 (0+ / 0-)

        can probably be done if several people share an apartment.

        My neice's rent is less than that (one of 3 roommates).

        Same for cable/phone.

        •  You seem to show up in every diary arguing for (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, Tonedevil

          higher pay for workers - advocating the exact opposite policy proscriptions for what workers actually need. Care to disclose who you work for and what interest you have in this conversation besides "passing curiosity"? I don't mean to insinuate that you are debating in anything less then good faith - but at this point you are ether willfully trolling or have a vested interest in ensuring that every supply side - pull yourself up by your boot straps - lies are circulated in this thread - instead of what the focus of the conversation should be -

          That all workers need a raise at this point and 15 dollars an hour is a drop in the bucket in terms of policy proscriptions this country needs to recover.

          “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

          by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:36:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i'm a statistician (0+ / 0-)

            in the healthcare industry. I'm only a fast food customer. I think this is my 2nd diary on the topic. I don't think i've circulated a single lie.

            But if you raise wages beyond the revenue generated by the work, the workers will not be hired and the companies will not be profitable.

            I want healthy profitable companies and for people to have work.

            Obviously if you paid every employee $100 an hour the company would go out of business trying to sell $20 Big Macs. Everyone loses.

            At some price point, actual harm is done by raising salaries too high.

            •  A living wage is NOT "too high" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil

              No one's advocating paying McDonald's workers $100/hr.

              Not even they themselves.

              Hell, as despicable as Henry Ford may have been in other ways, he at least had enough business acumen to realize that, from a purely economic standpoint, it made sense to pay his workers enough that they could afford to buy the cars they helped build.

              We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

              by Samer on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:19:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  obviously not (0+ / 0-)

                the example was merely to demonstrate that a point exists where too high wages are destructive. Once that is recognized, then the question becomes one of trying to figure out where that might be.

                My understanding was that he paid higher wages to reduce turnover to make the assembly line more efficient and reduce the cost of the car so he could sell more of them.

                I doubt that the profit earned selling one more car was greater than the extra money he paid them.

                from wikipedia...

                The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850; in 1913, the price dropped to $550 and $440 in 1915. Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915. In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.

                By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $260 because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume.

            •  Is it harm or just change? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Tonedevil

              If $20 Big Macs put McDonald's out of business, people will still be buying food.  They will simply get it elsewhere.  McDonald's goes under but maybe grocery stores see a boom and more workers are hired there instead.  Or maybe restaurants that charged more already but also paid their workers more see an increase in business, and hire more.

              That's the thing about the market: it adjusts/corrects itself.  Maybe it's not such a bad thing for society if we had fewer Big Macs and french fries being consumed.

              •  yes mcdonalds going out of business (0+ / 0-)

                would be harmful

                harmful for the 1.7 million employees now earning a living.
                harmful for the people with 98 billion invested in the company.

                But yes i agree that companies will fail and the market will adjust. But it isn't a good idea to impose policies that cause businesses to fail.

                If you favor the market deciding things, then shouldn't the market also determine the wages of the employees?

                •  If there are unions, then sure (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tonedevil

                  Management has far too much power over labor for labor to get a fair slice of the economic pie they help to generate.  It's one of the many failures of a truly free-market system in terms of being beneficial for society.

                  But in a general sense, markets work and are useful.  They do need regulation to help make them work in a beneficial way though instead of being mere exploitation.

            •  It's not YOUR diary. I wrote it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil

              I love how you try to claim this as YOUR diary, when I was the dude who wrote it. Who are you, Mitt Romney, taking credit for other people's work? That was really a cheesy and jerky thing to do.

              •  i did not intend to imply that i wrote (0+ / 0-)

                it as i obviously did not. I was trying to say that this is the second diary on the topic that i have participated in.

                happy to clarify.

                •  Yes you did and here's the proof (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tonedevil

                  Taken verbatim from your dubious claim:

                  i'm a statistician (0+ / 0-)
                  in the healthcare industry. I'm only a fast food customer. I think this is my 2nd diary on the topic. I don't think i've circulated a single lie.
                  Not only did you intend it based on the words you used above, but then you lied about not doing while claiming to never lie. You must be a troll.
                  •  i was responding to a post titled (0+ / 0-)

                    "You seem to show up in every diary arguing for"

                    so it should be clear that it isn't my diary. i guess i could have been more explicit writing it as

                    I think this is my 2nd diary commenting on the topic.

                    but since my name isn't Dirk McQuigley it did not occur to me that the readers would be too stupid to misunderstand.

                    maybe i think that they are a bit smarter than you do.

                    So again i will apolgize for my lack of clarity.

                    THIS DIARY BELONGS TO DIRK. ALL CREDIT TO DIRK FOR ITS AWESOMENESS. PLEASE DO NOT ASCRIBE ANY CREDIT WHATSOEVER TO DVEIGHT WHO MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT WRITE IT AND DESIRES NO CREDIT FOR IT NOW OR AT ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE.

                    •  Using clearer language would have clarified that (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Tonedevil

                      Look, you are new. I see you have only been a member for like three weeks. Know the difference between a comment and a diary. There is this big box on the top right column that has a different line for diaries and a separate line for comments. So yes, this is the 2nd diary on the subject that you commented on. Readers aren't too stupid to know the difference. But yet you couldn't tell the difference between a comment and actual diary that you wrote, which at present is still zero.

            •  "At some price point, actual harm is done ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... by raising salaries too high."

              I notice this trope is never raised when in discussions of the salaries of top executives.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:54:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Depends where you live. A lot depends... (0+ / 0-)

          Where I live, you can decent place in a decent neighborhood for $600 per month.  I only charge my tenant upstairs (we own a duplex) $750 per month, and that's for a nice second story 2-bedroom 1-bath with separate dining room.  It has refinished hardwood floors, granite countertops, stainless appliances, central heat and air in a very nice neighborhood that is highly desirable to live in. We live within sight of one of the best botanical gardens in the world and the second largest park in town.  Our neighborhood is havily patrolled by city cops, and is very safe. An area east of here is a popular hangout with a lot of bars, restaurants and shopping and it is walking distance.    And, to the north is a rebounding inner city area that is becoming the LGBTQ section of town with tons of bars, clubs, restaurants and shopping.  We're biking distance to two major universities, one of which is a top-15 institution in the country.  

          For $600 per month, you couldn't rent my place, but I'm confident you could get one close by for that amount.  

          •  But, in another part of the country.... (0+ / 0-)

            (I meant to include this as the second part of my post above, but got too happy with the post button)

            I could charge my upstairs tenant $2500 per month for that place, and she'd happily pay it.  And getting something else for $600 would be impossible.  

            I know, because my wife and I lived in one of those places.  

            So it all comes down to where you live.  And not everyone has a choice where they get to live.  My wife and I do, but a lot of people wound up trapped where they are.  They are so busy making ends meet that they can't even save up enough money for a Uhaul, deposit for a new place, etc.  

             

  •  Well.... (5+ / 0-)

    That applies across the board to every job.  I'd be willing to pay a little more if it means more people would get a livable wage.
    Raise employees pay so that they could actually earn a living and they'd spend more, buying things others make here in the good ol' USA.  You know, create a demand and then supply that demand with items made here.
    Pay workers more (pump up the economy) and drastically cut what the gluttonous CEO are given....I say given, because no one, NO ONE, is worth $8.75 million a year.  And for what?  Sinking countless numbers of people into deeper poverty while shareholders get more dollars in their portfolios which does NOTHING for the economy.

    I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

    by Lilyvt on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:30:47 AM PDT

    •  Polls show more of us willing to pay more taxes (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tardis10, Lilyvt, Tonedevil

      if it gives insurance and other necessary services to help other Americans. Of course this excludes selfish teahadi types whose philosophy (sorry to be so crude) is "I got mine, so screw you."

    •  lilly - the $8.75 million isn't all cash (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      erush1345, coffeetalk

      For CEOs of Fortune 500 companies about 80% of their total compensation is equity based and does not cost the company any cash. So spreading around the compensation of the senior executives to the rank and file doesn't do much unless we want to give the McD workers stock options, which vest over four years and may be worth a lot or nothing, instead of cash.

      Senior executive compensation is outrageous but when you look at just the payments made in cash they represent a fraction of 1% of the total expenses for Fortune 500 companies.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:59:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I already chafe at paying $3.99 for a Big Mac (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, erush1345

    so no, I wouldn't pay 68 cents more (I typically only buy one when I have a "buy one get one free" coupon or that type of thing).

    Heck, I can go to that 5 Guys place and get a much better burger for 20 cents less . . .. .

    •  Five guys is much more expensive than McD's (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, roycej

      And IMO, it ain't that good. I think my order of a burger, fries, and a soda was like $13. I found this online. I don't know how much each franchise varies, but this one was charging $5.79 JUST for the burger. It came out to $12.76 for small fries, and regular drink with NO tax added.

      •  In my neck of the woods there is a place you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        can park and walk the same distance (about 400 feet) to either place.

        The Big Mac (as the diary states) is $3.99 and the least expensive burger at 5 Guys is $3.79.

        and the $3.79 burger is about the same size as the Big Mac (although I haven't rigorously compared them side by side).

        I do realize you could massively upgrade your burger at 5 Guys and spend more, but my point is that you don't have to.

      •  Not really. It's about $5-6 for a burger which is (0+ / 0-)

        bigger than a Big Mac. Big Mac by itself is about $3.50-4. But if Big Mac costs $5, Five Guys will be a much better choice. Yeah, their fries are more expensive and McD fries are better imho but I never get fries anyway.

    •  I don't know what 5 guys you (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      roycej, corvo, Dirk McQuigley

      go to..but you may be able to get the 5 guys "little" burger for 5$..but an actual burger...no..

      From the Five Guys Website Menu:

      Bacon Cheeseburger
      Cost: $8.59

      Cheeseburger
      Cost: $7.19

      Hamburger
      Cost: $6.39

      Little Hamburger
      Cost: $5.09

      Little Bacon Burger
      Cost: $6.49

      Little Bacon Cheeseburger
      Cost: $6.79

      Not a single thing on the menu comes close to being 3.99..so I don't understand your point. Note - these are the prices of 5 guys before you add anything extra to your burgers.

      Paying 68 cents more for a 3.99 burger would still only make the cost $4.67. Below everything on the 5 guys menu. I'll agree with you that the quality of 5 guys is vastly better than McDonald but to say their price points are even comparable is wrong.

      Now if you were to say a BigMac Meal with fries and a soda then you might equal the cost of a 5 guys burger..but if you add the same thing to 5 guys the cost jumps up to 10/12 dollar range.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:55:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I tend to think that if people were willing to pay (9+ / 0-)

    $.68 cents more for a Big Mac then they would currently cost $.68 cents more.

  •  if i read it right (0+ / 0-)

    he raises prices for all the food on the menu. This price increase looks like it's 17% for each of the examples.

    Everyone does realize that they can do this voluntarily right now? When you go to McD's, just give the employee 17% more than the bill as a tip. Even better that way as it won't be taxed.

    •  Tipping McDonald's employees not permitted (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Radiowalla, Tinfoil Hat, Tonedevil

      I might be wrong, but I don't think McDonald's employees (or other fast food franchises for that matter) even allow their employees to accept tips.

      I give you the immortal thoughts of one Mr. Pink (Steve Buscemi) from Reservoir Dogs on tipping:

      Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
      Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
      Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
      Mr. Pink: I don't believe in it.
      Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
      Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make shit.
      Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.
      Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you never ever tip, huh?
      Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
      Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.
      Mr. Pink: She was okay. But she wasn't anything special.
      Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
      Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
      Mr. Pink: Look, I ordered coffee, alright? And we been here a long fucking time and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee I want it filled six times.
      Mr. Blonde: Six times? Well, what if she's too fucking busy?
      Mr. Pink: The words "too fucking busy" shouldn't be in a waitress's vocabulary.
      Nice Guy Eddie: Excuse me Mr. Pink, but the last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee.
      Mr. Pink: Jesus Christ man, these ladies aren't starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage and when I did I wasn't lucky enough to have a job the society deemed tipworthy.
      Mr. Blue: You don't care if they're counting on your tips to live?
      Mr. Pink: [rubbing his middle finger and thumb together] You know what this is? The world's smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.
      Mr. White: You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their ass. This is a hard job.
      Mr. Pink: So is working at McDonald's, but you don't see anyone tip them, do you? Why not, they're serving you food. But no, society says don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here. It's bullshit!
      Mr. White: Waitressing is the number one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get, and make a living on. The reason is because of tips.
      Mr. Pink: Fuck all that! I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you show me a piece of paper that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're givin' me, I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise.
      Mr. Orange: You know what, you just convinced me. Gimmie my dollar back!
    •  They'd be fired in 5 seconds... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Heavy Mettle, sngmama, Tonedevil

      ....if they put any money from a customer into their pockets, regardless of the circumstances.

      You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

      by Rich in PA on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:01:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  even if that were the case, (0+ / 0-)

        which i doubt; that kind of policy wouldn't survive a PR incident or two.

        •  Are you kidding? (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, Dirk McQuigley, FG, sngmama, Tonedevil

          It has been the policy of fast food chains for the last 30 years for workers to not accept tips. It is considered theft by the employer if a worker accepted a tip and the worker would be fired.

          "PR" incident or two" - Kinda like a "PR" incident or two" stopped the banks from illegally foreclosing on peoples homes after the banks crashed the world economy.

          “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

          by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:28:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i worked (0+ / 0-)

            for years in the industry and never heard of such a policy. Then again i never about anyone getting tipped...

            any evidence beyond your sayso?

            •  Yes of course (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Tonedevil

              From the McDonald company policy book:

              http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/...

              Page 18 should cover it for you. A tip is considered a "Gift" by fast food companies.

              Gifts, Favors & Business Entertainment
              We will not pay bribes or provide anything of value that may influence or appear to influence the
              judgment or actions of another. We will not seek or accept bribes, kickbacks or any improper payments.
              We exercise good judgment and moderation in providing b
              usiness gifts or entertainment. We respect
              the policies of other organizations with which we do business.
              The purpose of business gifts and entertainment in a commercial setting is to create goodwill and sound
              working relationships.
              The following applies t
              o Company employees, Relatives of Company employees, and agents or third
              parties working on behalf of the Company:

              Do not offer, give or accept any gift, entertainment or other personal benefit if it:

              Is inconsistent with customary business practices;

              Is cash or a cash equivalent;

              Is excessive in value;

              Could be construed as a bribe or payoff; or

              Violates any laws or regulations.
              If you are not certain about whether any gift, proposed gift or other personal benefit is appropriate, you
              must consu
              lt your supervisor and the Compliance Officer before taking any action.
              Gifts and Entertainment Guidelines
              Question:
              One of my vendors asked me to speak at a conference that they are sponsoring and
              has offered to pay all of my expenses. Can I accept this o
              ffer?
              Answer:
              It may be possible for you to accept a portion of this offer. If your supervisor approves,
              you can agree to speak at the conference. However, McDonald’s does not allow vendors to pay
              travel and hotel costs for employees. Discuss the invitatio
              n with your supervisor since this
              situation depends on the specific facts and circumstances.
              Question:
              In my country, refusing a gift from a business associate can be considered an insult.
              What should I do if I am offered an expensive gift and know that I
              will cause offense if I don’t
              accept it?
              Answer:
              If it is customary to exchange gifts in the local culture and you believe that you will
              harm McDonald’s business relationships if you do not accept a gift, you may accept the gift on
              behalf of the Company. Y
              ou must then disclose the gift to your supervisor to determine
              appropriate disposition, or you may contact the Global Compliance Office for guidance.

              “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

              by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:57:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  no i don't think (0+ / 0-)

                that this covers tips. especially since the word tip only occurs once in the document.

                Here are some tips to remember about confidential information:

                instead the subject is

                We will not seek or accept bribes, kickbacks or any improper payments.

  •  The minimum wage in Australia is AU$16.37/hr (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirk McQuigley, NYFM, Tonedevil

    for adults. At the current exchange rate of US 91¢ per AU dollar, that's US$17.99.

    http://www.fairwork.gov.au/...

    Their unemployment is 5.7%

    Cheap labor brings misery to America. And (much of) America would whine about the cost of a fucking hamburger while standing on an economic foundation of fresh, steaming bullshit.

    "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

    by Crider on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:53:10 AM PDT

  •  That would represent an almost 20% price increase (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DVeight, erush1345

    and if it happened in many companies, there would be inflation.. and the higher wage would not go as far as you think it would

    •  i would also think (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG

      that if the industry raised prices by 17% that you'd see some decline in the # of customers, which would reduce profits for the company as well.

    •  I don't think you understand how inflation works. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, IamGumby, Tonedevil

      Paying workers in (all service jobs) a bare min of 15 dollars would not have an adverse effect on inflation. In fact  paying workers more $ - those who typically right now have a great deal of financial insecurity, and can not afford such luxuries as eating out - would have a positive net outcome for the economy by allowing them to have much more disposable income to spend.

      The min wage/tipped jobs ect have not kept pace with the cost of living for the last 40 years. This has become a drag on the economy because consumers can no longer afford all the products the "job creators" are producing.

      What proof do I have for my argument you might ask?

      Two words.

      Model T.

      Or

      Henry Ford.

      “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

      by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:10:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  People having more money is what usually (0+ / 0-)

        produces inflation. Right now it's not a big problem b/c people lost so much money in the last few years. But in general salary increases produce inflation.

  •  This shows the fallacy of targeting employers. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, DVeight, erush1345, FG

    It would be stupid for McDonald's to pay any more than they have to pay for any of their inputs, starting with labor.  We have government to make entire categories of employers do things that increase their costs, because if you don't go after the whole category there would be huge competitive disadvantages to any given employer doing it.  

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:00:40 AM PDT

  •  Keep in mind... (0+ / 0-)

    These figures account for CEO's making salaries of $8.75Mil.
    I would imagine if the folks on these "boards" decided that CEO payouts could be capped at, say, $5Mil, that profits would be greater even with the salaries of the grunts being raised to $15/hour...and...no need for price increases on the garbage menu at all.

  •  Since you cite Barbara Ehrenreich... (0+ / 0-)

    ...I will say that "Nickled and Dimed" brought out the noxious censorious part of me.  The people profiled in the book made all sorts of bad consumption choices that were not forced on them by circumstances.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:04:01 AM PDT

  •  Urban guerrilla tipping (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NYFM, Tool

    When I go to a fast food joint I never clear my dishes.  Why?
    It takes jobs away from human beings.  Instead, I leave my dishes and a nice tip.  

    As for the .68cents, I'd gladly pay it.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:31:40 AM PDT

    •  Tipping generally not permitted at fast food (0+ / 0-)

      That being the case, you may actually cost someone their job if they pocket your tip. Not only that, but you really should bus your own trays in the first place.

      •  I have never found this to be a problem. (0+ / 0-)

        If everyone refused to bus their own trays, there would be more jobs.  If everyone refused to pump their own gas, there would be more jobs.  If everyone refused to scan their own groceries, there would be more jobs.    I am old enough to remember when there were jobs for unskilled workers and for teens.  Now I am doing all these jobs for free.  

        Sorry, I am not going to cooperate.  

        It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

        by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:20:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  People do not respect these jobs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Tonedevil

    There is a stigma about fast-food jobs.  Basically, people who resist raising minimum wages to a livable level try to argue that these aren't jobs meant for family breadwinners, but for high school kids and college students who want unskilled, part-time work to supplement their lifestyle of living at home or getting support already while going to school.  As initial jobs to put on a resume, not to let them buy homes and raise kids.  That these are jobs to be left behind once people enter the "real" workforce.

    I'm not sure how we break that stigma.

  •  For Some Reason . . . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirk McQuigley

    . . . I thought I had read that McDonald's was planning to do away with the dollar menu; thinking to check before posting, I found that, on the contrary, it is expanding it. According to foodbeast.com, the expansion includes a "Southwest" burger topped with tortilla chips. I suppose that this supports the argument that a $0.68 increase in a burger could drive away business.

    However, considering the company's profits, and the increase in executive salaries over the years, I agree that the company certainly could--and should--cover the increased costs for adequately-paid employees. I have learned that they can't even spare a meal for on-shift employees, although they'll generously allow them to purchase on for 50% off. Faugh.

    I haven't eaten at a McDonald's in nearly 15 years. (I can remember this because it was on a beach trip with a friend and her young child, for whom the McD trip was a vacation treat, and I tried a salad shaker, which was appalling.) I sometimes wish I still did, so I could boycott it. I agree that the minimum wage should be raised across the board, but fast food strikes should nevertheless be supported; they are high-profile companies, and increased attention on their practices can only help the cause.

    One cat away from crazy.

    by IamGumby on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:40:33 AM PDT

  •  I'd pay a penny or dime on everything in Walmart (0+ / 0-)

    or any store if that lead to better pay for the grunts.

    "You are what you write, not what you look like."

    by PHScott on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:17:18 AM PDT

  •  who's economy is it? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

    It's ALL good with the $15/hr rate" Less consumption is good, higher pay is good, I don't care about corp profits after a certain level. Growth is not necessary.
    Here is an idea :
    If low taxes created jobs, we'd be awash in jobs. More jobs than people, but No! Look around at our economy; there are plenty of toasters of every kind in stores; what's missing is not another foreign toaster factory, but someone with a job able to buy said toaster.

    To push corporations into being better citizens, and more involved, I propose a 100% corporate income tax. First, what is a corporation for? It's an investment vehicle and a mechanism for delivering product/service ideally with a profit. The corporations operate unimpeded; deducting all costs including business taxes, expenses, and employee pay and ancillary costs. They can pay their CEO anything they want, and pay any dividend they want. Then allow a 5 year tax-free revolving unlimited cash 'slush” fund that hopefully would be used for growth/infrastructure/investment. Whatever is left is taxed 100%.
    This pushes cash out into our economy. Money spread out by expense, pay, dividends, and taxes are the power that our economy needs. Give the businesses a 5 year strategic reservoir, then push the rest out into our economy. If they hate taxes, the companies could either pay out more in wages and/or dividends, or lower prices.

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