Skip to main content

And Open Thread, of course...don't restrict yourself to garden talk!

GUS (Gave Up Smoking) is a community support diary for Kossacks in the midst of quitting smoking. Any supportive comments, suggestions or positive distractions are appreciated. If you are quitting or thinking of quitting, please -- join us!  We kindly ask that politics be left out.  

    You can also click the GUS tag to view all diary posts, or access the GUS Library at dKosopedia for a great list of stop-smoking links. Check it out!  GUS library.

    A message to ALL quitters. You don't have to avoid GUS if you have a failed quit.  We won't give you a bad time and we consider the failed quits as "practice" for the real quit.

You can save seed from your garden for next year's flowers, fruits, or vegetables, but there are a few considerations.

Hybrid plants, which includes most modern vegetables and fruit plants, won't breed true.  Most likely, the daughter will resemble one of the parents or grandparents, and won't produce edibles of the same size, color, and quality.  For most vegetables, it's best to purchase new plants ever year.

Squash is an interesting exception for the hobbyist.  Although unreliable, squash plants will happily reproduce with any other squash, producing some fascinating hybrid plants in your garden over the years.  

Hybrid flowers, or non-hybrid flowers that are capable of reproducing with others of the same or a compatible species, will produce unpredictable flower colors.  While this can be tremendous fun, it can also be annoying to gardeners that carefully plan their gardens year to year (as I do).

What You Can't Collect

Collection of seed from patented or trademarked plants is illegal.  However, many of the plants commonly available at greenhouses are not patented or trademarked.  It's legal to save ("heirloom") these seeds.  For the most part, the tag for the plant will advise you as to whether it's patented or trademarked.

I "Accidentally" Collected Patented Seeds

Technically, you need to throw those away.  However, even if you do grow them, they're unlikely to produce plants that resemble the patented varieties.  The hybridization process that produces these requires the growers to re-cross the parent plants every year.

Seeds You Shouldn't Bother Collecting

Some plants are advertised as mules, such as mule marigolds (a cross between French and Mexican marigold).  These won't produce viable seeds as the plant is sterile--and many mules produce no seeds at all.

Again, hybrid plants won't breed true and tend to revert to a previous generation.  Don't bother saving these seeds either as the daughters will tend to disappoint you.

Very small or very difficult to grow seeds tend to be on most people's "don't bother" list.  Among these, I never bother with angelonia (requires too much time), lisianthus (ditto), ageratum (too small), petunia (far too small), French marigold (too cheap to bother and won't breed true), and a dozen others.

For your first efforts, stick to seeds of a manageable size from plants that are easy to grow.  In the garden, zinnia (will cross-breed with other zinnia), red salvia, and marigold (they may be different colors than you started with) are easy.  Although celosia seeds are very small, they're trivially easy to grow.

What Does a Good Seed Look Like?

For most plants, a viable, healthy seed will be brown or black, plump, and not have any visible damage or discoloration.

There are exceptions.  Pumpkin seeds are pale, as are the seeds from most gourds and many vegetables.  Seeds should, however, be plump and lack discoloration.

How Many Do I Need?

More than you think you will, probably!  For most species, I plant 3 to 10 seeds in each cell of the tray and still end up transplanting sprouts with a toothpick into cells that had no sprouts.  As a general and not very good rule, the larger the seed the fewer you'll need to plant to have one grow.

As an example, 3 sunflower seeds (very large) are usually enough to get 1 to 2 sprouts.  However, 3 celosia seeds (very tiny) are also enough to get 1 to 2 sprouts.  A great deal depends on the seed viability, and that varies by the species.

Over the years, you'll notice that your sprout percentages tend to rise.  You'll get better at seed collecting and seed starting, plus the plants in your garden are all descended off of plants that managed to sprout under your care.

From How Many Plants?

It depends.

If you're going to purchase plants of the same species to put into your garden, it doesn't matter terribly much.

If your entire supply of this particular species is from seed you collect, try to get a set of seeds from many flowers to maintain genetic diversity.  Even so, over time you may notice plants growing weaker or changing as they revert closer to the wild version.

Weakening plants due to inbreeding can be solved by purchasing a set of new plants and mixing them with the existing ones.  They'll happily reproduce with their new friends.

Reverting plants can also be solved by purchasing a new set of plants and mixing them in, or you may discover that you prefer the reverting version of the plant.

Revering How?

My Melampodium, cleome, and salvia are all growing larger as the generations pass.  Mostly, this is due to the fact that larger plants tend to produce more flowers and hence more seeds, so contribute more to the genes in the next generation.  Some is because all three examples were dwarfed long ago to be more compatible with smaller gardens.  Over time, those genes tend to breed out of the species and they revert to resemble those in the wild more.

Collecting Most Flower Seeds

This applies to most of the flowers we'd consider "round," such as marigold, zinnia, daisy, and the like.  Everybody's picked apart a dead marigold head to reveal the long, thin seeds inside of it.  The philosophy here is the same.

For most flowers, when the flower fades and the dying flower head nods toward the ground, you can remove it.  Clean off the dead petals.  As a general rule, the seeds are contained in a capsule in the very center of the old flower, held in place by several dead leaf-like structures.

Open these up over a piece of white paper and the seeds should either fall by themselves or be dislodged easily onto the paper.  

For sunflowers, the seeds don't tend to dislodge quite so easily.  Run your thumb along the edges of the flower to dislodge the outermost spiral of seeds.  Continue moving inward until all seeds are dislodged onto the paper.

Pick out any chaff (things that are not seeds).

Collecting Spiky Flower Seeds

Most spikes produce flowers progressively up the spike, with the lower flowers fading first (liatris is an exception where the flowers progress down the spike and fade from top to bottom).  

Run your hand up the spike with enough pressure to dislodge flowers that aren't firmly held (expect to ruin a few spikes until you learn the trick).  Place the dislodged flowers into a bowl.  If you find you removed a lot of fresh flowers, don't worry about it.  These won't contain seeds.  I tend to find that seed collection works best when I have a mix of older and fresher flowers, but not the freshest ones that are in active bloom.

Extracting seeds varies.  For plants with larger seeds, such as red salvia, let the flowers dry for a day or so.  Rotate the flower heads in the bowl several times, then move the flower heads to another bowl.  The black seeds will fall to the bottom where you can remove them and put them on paper.

Tighter flowers, such as blue salvia, bluebells, and the like, may require that you grind the flowers to dust gently between your fingers.  Shake the bowl at an angle to force the heavier seeds to the bottom, then carefully remove the ground flower bits.  The small brown pellets at the bottom of the bowl are the seeds.

What Flower...These Are Solid Spikes...

Liatris, celosia, and so on are solid spike flowers rather than growing small flowers off a central stem.

In the case of both, it's easiest to shake spent flower heads over a bowl and collect seed that way.  With celosia, you can remove complete faded flowers and place them in a bowl.  Over time, the seeds fall off, or you can shake them.

Celosia seeds are a color exception.  While some are black, many seem to be brown or a russet-toned brown.

Other Types of Flower Seeds

Some form capsules within the seed head, some form dependent capsules on the stem, others air disperse seeds so effectively that timing is critical.  Almost any species of plant can be looked up for the best way to collect seeds.  I'll be glad to answer questions in the comments if I'm familiar with the species.

Most Vegetables

Allow the last vegetable to remain on the vine until frost, by which time it should be wrinkled and look rather...old.  This is when the seeds are at their most mature.  If the vegetable falls off the vine on its own, it's ready.  If not, it should come off with a gentle tug.

Cut the vegetable open and remove the seeds, freeing them from the pulp.  Try not to damage the seed when you do so!

Place the seeds on paper or on a plate and let dry.

Most Fruits

Leave the fruit on the plant until it releases easily (by which time the fruit tends to look rather wrinkled).  You may need to wrap the fruit in cheesecloth to keep birds and insects away from it.

Cut the fruit open and remove the seeds, freeing them from the pulp.  Try not to damage the seeds when you do so!

Place the seeds on paper or on a plate and let dry.

Warning:  Tomato plants are heavily hybridized and the daughter plants won't resemble the parent, nor will they produce the same tomatoes.  While heirloom tomatoes are entirely edible, they're rarely the quality the parents were.

Most of These Look Like Seeds But...

You may have white bits that look very much like the seeds but are definitely the wrong color.  These can be the spent ovum capsule of the plant, or can be unfertilized or underdeveloped seeds.  In either case, you can remove these and discard them, or dry them with your seeds.  When it comes time to plant, don't count the white pieces as seed!

Conversely, some vegetable seeds may be dark or discolored.  Discard these as they tend to be infected or undeveloped seeds.

Drying Your Seed

Now that you have your seeds on paper or plates, leave them out to dry in a room temperature area, out of direct sunlight, preferably with good air flow.  Most air-conditioned rooms in houses are perfect.

I tend to place mine on my bookshelves--including atop the bookshelf where I don't have to look at them all the time.

No special fans or air flow devices are required.  However, if you have layers of seeds on your paper or plate, stir occasionally to mix the bottom layer to the top.  Keep an eye out for growing fungus and discard seeds that exhibit it.  Single layers of seeds will have fewer fungus issues, and seeds that generally don't touch are the best way to dry.

The amount of time to dry varies by the size of the seed.  Smaller seeds, the size of a cucumber seed or smaller, will dry in seven to ten days.  Almost all flower seeds are in this category, including sunflower seeds (which are larger, but tend to be dry to start with).  Large or wet seeds, as from many vegetables, may require two weeks to a month to dry thoroughly.

When the seed feels dry and has felt dry for at least three days, it's done.  

Storing Your Seed

Perfect storage involves baby food jars and storage on the coldest shelf in your refrigerator over winter, once you're certain your seeds are completely dry.  Most of us are hesitant to refrigerator-store our seeds, particularly if we're uncertain the seed is completely dry or we store a large number of species.

A few hot-weather plants shouldn't be stored in colder temperatures.  Most of these will be tropical plants, and fairly obvious.

Perfectly acceptable storage is much easier.  Label a letter envelope with the name of the flower and the year.  Put the seeds in the envelope.  Don't seal the envelope to allow air to slowly circulate.  Store the envelope in a reasonably cool, dry location--if your cellar has heating and air conditioning, this is an excellent place to store them.  If not, any storage location out of direct sun is fine.

Exceptions to the rule include any seed that requires a freeze or frost period, or special treatment to sprout.  Special treatment can include temperature oscillation, cold stratification, or a dozen other things.  Fortunately, most seeds aren't in this category, or will sprout at lower germination percentages even if they are.

Mark Your Calendar

Many people are great at storing seeds (and bulbs) and not so great at remembering they're there when the time to plant hits.  Mark your calendar with a reminder!


Check the planting instructions for the species you saved as there are many variations.  Some seeds prefer to be up top, others prefer to be buried.  Still others don't care.

If this is your first year, don't rely on your stored seeds--something may have gone awry, or that particular species may not seed particularly well.  If you can get an early start in flats, trays, or pots, you can grow your plants early and discover any particular headaches they have in store for you.

I tend to recommend seed storage for people who grow flats of flowers indoors before frost ends.  That way, an error in seed collection can be rectified with a trip to the local grocery store and a packet of seed off the shelf.

A Word on Easy Crossbreeding

Please note this only works with varieties of the same species (or, in rare cases, compatible species).  

Let's say, as I did, you find you like one non-patented variety of salvia's leaves, and another's flower style.  You can plant mostly the leaf you like (or the flower) mixed with just a few of the flower you like (or the leaf).  Then collect seeds from the few plants instead of the many--it's probable that they reproduced with the larger number as opposed to the smaller number of like-styled plants.

In future generations, remove plants that revert to the parent and keep only those that successfully cross-bred.  Eventually, and faster than you might imagine, the vast majority of plants will be your own personal cross-bred variety.

In my case, I liked the deep green leaf of one type, but the long scarlet flower of another.  Four generations later, all of the salvia in my garden are forest-green leafed, but have bright, long, and very scarlet flower stems.  Both the hummingbirds and I approve.

If you fail in your crossbreed, no matter.  You can try again, or simply enjoy the daughters of your plants for their very real charms.

Who's Your Little Buddy?  
1BQ, 2thanks, 3rdGenFeminist, 417els, A Man Called Gloom, Abra Crabcakeya, Actbriniel, addisnana, AfroPonix, aishmael, Alise, Alpha99, also mom of 5, ambeeeant, American in Kathmandu, amk for obama, andsarahtoo, angry marmot, Anne933, anodnhajo, aoeu, AoT, aquarius2001, arcadesproject, Archie2227, arodb, Arthur Wolf (in memoriam), assyrian64, Aunt Acid, awkawk, b4uknowit, BadKitties, bamablue, BARAKABETH, barnowl, b barrie, bdizz, beatpanda, beefydaddy18, betterdemsonly, BFSkinner, bgblcklab1, BigAlinWashSt, Bike Crash, BirderWitch, BJKay, bleeding heart, blingbling65, blue husky, Blue Intrigue, bluedust, BluejayRN, BlueJessamine, Bluerall, bluestatedem84, BoiseBlue, boudi08, Brahman Colorado, breedlovinit, BrenP, BrianParker14, Bronxist, broths, BrowniesAreGood, bsmechanic, buddabelly, Bugsydarlin, bumbi, BusyinCA, cactusgal, cagernant, Carol in San Antonio, CathiefromCanada, CathodeRay, CDH in Brooklyn, Cedwyn, cee4, Cen Den, ChocolateChris, ChurchofBruce, ciganka, cinnamondog, citizenx, ClapClapSnap, claude, Cleante, Code Monkey, codobus, Coldblue Steele, Colorado is the Shiznit, coloradomomma, common green, commonmass, Common Sense Mainer, congenitalefty, coppercelt, dadanation, Damnit Janet, dangoch, DarienComp, dauber, Dauphin, Dave in AZ, Dave in Northridge, David54, deedogg, demkat620, Dexter, Diana in NoVa, Dickie, DiegoUK, Dingodude, dirtdude, distraught, djMikulec, docreed2003, dolfin66, donnamarie, Donna O, dotsright, Dr Teeth, Dreggas, DRo, droogie6655321, Dube, duckhunter, Eclectablog, Eddie C, EdgedInBlue, effervescent, elbamash, El barragas, el vasco, electricgrendel, entrelac, ericlewis0, Everest42, Ex Con, ExpatGirl, ezdidit, fauve, fhamme, Fineena, fiona2, fishhawk, Flea, flumptytail, Friend of the court, fritzi56, FrugalGranny, Garrett, Gator, gchaucer2, GDbot, Geiiga, GenXangster, glpaul, gooderservice, gooners, gravlax, GreenMountainBoy02 (in memoriam), greylox, grndrush (in memoriam), GrumpyWarriorPoet, GuerillaLiberal, GulfExpat, gzodik, Haole in Hawaii, HappyinNM, henlesloop, here4tehbeer, HeyMikey, hideinplainsight, High Tide, hiliner68, history first, hold tight, Hugh Jim Bissell, hulibow, I love OCD, I said GOOD DAY sir, Im a frayed knot, imisa, Indexer, indubitably, indyada, Interceptor7, Inventor, Isaacsdad, ItsaMathJoke, itsbenj, Jahiz, James Earl, JamesEB, janl1776, Janeo, jarbyus, JayinPortland, jayjaybear, jbalazs, JBL55, jbou, Jeffersonian Democrat, jillwklausen, jmadlc55, jmonch, Joes Steven (aka Steven), john keats, john07801, johngoes, johnny wurster, jsfox, just another vet, JVolvo's Mom (in memoriam), jwinIL14, Kai99, kailuacaton, Kamakhya, kat herder, katchen, Kelly of PA, khloemi, Khun David, Kitsap River, kittania, KrazyKitten, Kristina40, Ksholl, labwitchy, ladypockt, Lahdee, langerdang, LarsThorwald, LA rupert, last starfighter, LaughingPlanet, Laurie Gator, Lava20, Leo in NJ, Lipstick Liberal, litoralis, lmdonovan, lockewasright, Lonely Liberal in PA, Lonely Texan, longislandny, Lorinda Pike, LtdEdishn, luvsathoroughbred, maggiemay, magicsister, mango, Marc in KS, MargaretPOA, Marjmar, Mark E Andersen (Kodiak54), marknspokane, marsanges, maryabein, Matt Esler, Maxiemax, MBNYC, mdemploi, Meteor Blades, Micburke, michael1104, MillieNeon, minerva1157, MinervainNH, Missys Brother, mjbleo, MnRaindog (in memoriam), mntleo2, mollyd, Morague, MotoGP, Mr Bojangles, mrsgoo, mskitty, msmacgyver, MsWings, Murphoney, nannyboyz, ncsuLAN, NearlyNormal, Nedsdag, Nespolo, Nick Zouroudis, nokkonwud, notgivingup, NY brit expat, oceanview, OleHippieChick, Olkate, one pissed off democrat, One Pissed Off Liberal, Onomastic, operculum, OrangeMike, Ordvefa, Overseas, Over the Edge, Pager, paige, PaintyKat, paradox, parryander, paulitics, peglyn, Pennsylvanian, peterfallow, phrogge prince, plok, Positronicus, post rational, PowWowPollock, Proud Mom and Grandma, psycho liberal, ptolemynm, Purple Priestess, PvtJarHead, racheltracks, randallt, ray bob, real world chick, red mittens, Reepicheep, regis, relentless, revelwoodie, revsue, Rex Manning, rexymeteorite, RiaD, rickeagle, ridemybike, rightiswrong, Rileycat, rincewind, rkex, roadlion, RoCali, Roger Fox, Rosebuddear, roses, rscopes, Rudini, RumsfeldResign, Safina, SallyCat, Sanuk, Sark Svemes, sboucher, scooter in brooklyn, Scrapyard Ape, seenaymah, Senor Unoball, sewaneepat, sfbob, sgary, Shahryar, sheddhead, shesaid, Shifty18, shmuelman, shopkeeper, sidious666, sidnora, slksfca, slowbutsure, smartcookienyc, smeesq, Smoh, snoopydawg, snorwich, SnyperKitty, SoCalHobbit, SoCalSal, sofia, soonergrunt, soros, sostos, sowsearsoup, SpecialKinFlag, spmozart, spotDawa, SpotTheCat, StateOfGrace, Statusquomustgo, stiffneck, stonekeeper, suesue, sunbro, Super Grover, Syoho, tallmom, Tay, tdslf1, teknospaz, theatre goon, The Eyewitness Muse, TheGeneral, TheStoopingRabbit, TigerMom, Tim DeLaney, tiredofcrap, TomP, tonyahky, Toyotabob7, TracieLynn, TreeFrog, triciawyse, tripodisblack, trs, trueblueliberal, ttanner, Tulsonian, Turn VABlue, Turtle Bay, Tyto Alba, uc booker, UncleCharlie, Unduna, Unforgiven, ursoklevar, USArmyParatrooper, VA02 femocrat, Vacationland, valadon, Vayle, vc2, Vetwife, vgranucci, Via Chicago, Village expects idiot home soon, viral, vulcangrrl, waytac, webranding, weelzup, Wes Opinion, Whimsical Rapscallion, willy be frantic, willy mugobeer, Wood Dragon, wolfie1818, Wordsinthewind, Wreck Smurfy, x, xopher, yet another liberal, Zotz
Have you had some experience with the effects of smoking, and want to write a GUS diary or host an open thread? Please sign up in the Butt Can (Tip Jar), and name the day and time that works for you (posting times are flexible). Weekly GUS Diary Schedule (regular hosts featured in bold) is below.

    Thu AM: Lonely Liberal in PA
    Thu PM: nokkonwud
    Fri AM: flumptytail
    Fri PM: open
    Sat AM: effervescent
    Sat PM: Open
    Sun AM: gchaucer2
    Sun PM: Open
    Mon AM:  anodnhajo
    Mon PM: paulitics
    Tue AM: gchaucer2
    Tue PM: Open
    Wed AM: Open

If you can spare a few hours, please consider hosting GUS. It doesn't have to be a permanent slot, it can be a one-time deal! Not sure where to start? Just ask for help in the Butt Can (Tip Jar). Seriously, it doesn't have to include specific elements or require all sorts of fabulous diary formatting skills. The regulars will make sure stuff gets carried over from diary to diary, so if you want to just tell your story or provide an open thread and host for a few hours, that's cool too. We would be very grateful!

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site