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This is as serious as it gets:

Syria crisis: Russia and China step up warning over strike

From the BBC News above:

Russia and China have stepped up their warnings against military intervention in Syria, with Moscow saying any such action would have "catastrophic consequences" for the region.
Attacking Syria with cruise missiles would be pure insanity.   It could easily result in a massive war in the middle east with unpredictable consequences that could draw in Iran and even Russia.  

As for the chemical attack, it is hard to believe that the Assad regime really used such weapons.  Assad has been winning using conventional weapons.  As brutal as his regime is, they are not suicidal.   They only ones who had a real motive to use chemical weapons were the rebels, to provoke an intervention, as they seem to be losing the war.

We need to stay out of Syria.


Would you support a military action against Syria?

20%19 votes
79%72 votes

| 91 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  You are correct (11+ / 0-)

    we need to stay out of Syria.

    We are not wanted nor welcome.  I don't like seeing innocent people being killed but the US / NATO attacking will only make it worse - then they can have no one ruling and the tribes and religious nuts can continue their slaughter.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 05:22:26 AM PDT

    •  Iraq is a good example (5+ / 0-)

      We really messed up Iraq

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 05:42:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure if it's about messing something up (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CenPhx, War on Error, gooderservice

        it's about can we make something better - considering all the people who died in the Iraq invasion - all the money spent - all heartache of families - and today's Iraq still has killings on a daily basis - it's just not Saddam killing - it's some religious nut case group doing it.

        Iraq is no more or less stable today than it was under Saddam.  

        Saddam was a bad man - there's no doubt - but what is better for the people of Iraq?  Now they live under what the US thinks is better for them - and it's early - maybe it will work in a couple of hundred years......but the notion that the US will swoop into Syria, drop a few bombs and make it better is nuts - we were in Iraq for 10 years and the country still is on a see-saw between continuing their current Government and tribal civil war.

        Syria is the same - just a different name.  

        The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

        by ctexrep on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 05:52:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  And Afghanistan too (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        War on Error, corvo, Kickemout

        after thirteen years there (the longest war in our history!) we've reached the stage of practically admitting that we've been beaten by a bunch of almost primitive mountain tribesman!

        We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

        by Lepanto on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 06:05:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't think its especially hard to believe (8+ / 0-)

    Assad would use such weapons. I also don't think its especially hard to believe the other side might have (considering some of the groups that are now part of the opposition). Until their is unequivocal evidence either way we have to stay out. And even if such evidence were to be produced we absolutely do not go it alone or even with a coalition of the usual suspects (Britain, France, Australia, etc.)

    If work was a good thing, the rich would have it all and not let you do it. -- Elmore Leonard

    by voroki on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 05:43:50 AM PDT

    •  Assad has chemical weapons (0+ / 0-)

      What evidence is there that any of the rebel groups do?

    •  I don't want to go into Syria. (0+ / 0-)

      This sort of policy choice almost never leads to a good outcome, for us or for the country we're "helping." There's a collection of private-sector guys who make out like bandits, and the rest of us take it in the face. I'm with you. No sale. I hope somebody in DC has some sense about this.  Maybe the military will convince Obama where they couldn't convince Bush/Cheney.

      The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 08:16:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Right message, wrong forum ...? (6+ / 0-)

    DailyKos seems strangely immune to any discussion of Syria. Somebody's dying Pootie seems to be on the rec list but nothing about hundreds of people who are being killed by both sides ...

    If it were a Republican president we'd be out there on the streets demonstrating against military action ... Remember the huge Washington rally before Iraq?

  •  When Russia and China support something (0+ / 0-)

    you better believe something is wrong with it. Especially Russia. On the world stage, anything Russia says can be safely ignored as garbage.

  •  Regimes are not suicidal. It is so hard (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, Blue Wind, erush1345

    to believe that Assad used gas. Like you say, it makes no sense. The rebels are the only ones with something to gain.

    Further, affiant sayeth not. 53959

    by Gary Norton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 06:01:37 AM PDT

    •  The Russians could have pushed him to do this (0+ / 0-)

      telling Assad that yes, there will be a NATO response but that his personal safety would be guaranteed.  I can see a great deal of political advantage right now in Putin's power rise for him to try to embroil us in such a mess.  

  •  I fear President Obama has no clue what to do (7+ / 0-)

    and has allowed himself to be entrapped by bad advice.

    It was a mistake to demand from the outset that Assad had to go - that made any subsequent diplomatic approach practically impossible.

    It was a mistake to set red lines. Very biased set lines  at that, which seemed to apply only to Assad and not at all to the Jihadist rebels, thereby giving the impression that this was not about humanitarian concern for the Syrian people but instead about predetermined regime change. Red lines which got him stuck in a no-withdrawl-without-losing-face situation.

    These are major, extremely amateurish diplomatic blunders.

    Then, this situation is quite different from that of Ghadaffi and that of Hussein, for neither of these had any allies and had insignificant, easy to beat militaries.

    Syria is a very different kettle of fish, it has a strong, up to date military, and has close allies in Russia, China and Iran. All three have already issued strong warnings against attacking Syria.

    I'm not so alarmist as to claim that this will lead to WWIII.
    But it's not going to be easy, and the result for us on the international front could turn out extremely humiliating.

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 06:03:20 AM PDT

    •  Can we not do it? (0+ / 0-)

      Is there still a chance for us not to do it?

      We haven't done anything yet except talk about how horrible it is and how something must be done and how Assad must go, right? We've rattled sabres but made no commitment, right?

      The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 08:14:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The last time the US attacked a nation over (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lepanto, just another vet

    unconfirmed reports of WMDs it did not go well for the Americans.

    Now add these further complications:

    There are no clear good guys to defend and bad guys to fight;

    This may be the beginning of a larger Sunni-Shiite/Alewite War that could spread across the Middle East;

    Only 9% of Americans support intervention (the number supporting Cheney's invasion of Iraq was initially much higher);

    It is obvious President Obama does not believe intervening is desirable, and he is doing so against his own better judgment-- i.e., from a position of weakness;

    Israel is poised to intervene and do something crazy to escalate the conflict-- perhaps as pretext to attack Iran.

  •  Umm, guess China & Russia have never heard (0+ / 0-)

    of the pot-kettle thing.

  •  This all sounds like a trap to me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wilderness voice

    I wouldn't doubt if the KGB's hand isn't fully pulling the Syrian government's strings on this, drooling over us getting embroiled in this mess where there are no defined sides.  

    Putin is trying to grab power daily by rekindling Russian nationalism.  Can't do that without an enemy.

  •  If Tehran (0+ / 0-)

    gets in bed with Assad, it'll be a marriage of (in)convenience only.  Ideologically Iran and Syria nations aren't exactly cozy (in fact Khomeini didn't even regard the former President Assad as a "true Muslim").  Strategically, Iran would have to really REALLY want to get in the fight, because there's no easy way for them to get there.  Going overland they'd have to cross through Iraq (unlikely) or Turkey (even more unlikely).  By sea, they'd have to pass through the Suez Canal and Israel's backyard.  By air it doesn't get much better, even assuming Iran has significant airlift capabilities.

    So what would change the calculus enough to convince Tehran to make this a regional conflict?  Well if their public statements can be believed, they'd do it for the chance to do battle with the Great Satan.  And we seem to be poised to invite them to do just that.

    This story cannot end well.

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 10:12:43 AM PDT

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