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Nidal Hasan, who killed 13 people in the Fort Hood massacre, has been sentenced to death by the court martial. This is wrong for two reasons.

First, there should be no death penalty for anyone.  If you want to argue about whether this or that person should be an exception to the rule, I ask you to distinguish the cases of Gary "Green River" Ridgway, convicted of killing 48 woman, most of whom were sex workers (life imprisonment), and Aileen Wurnos, a sex worker convicted of killing seven customers (death).  
Second, this fellow Hasan wants the death penalty.  Why give him what he wants?  He's paralyzed from the injuries sustained in the course of his crimes -- let him live a long life in prison in that condition.  That seems like punishment enough, and it won't make him into a martyr.

Poll

Should the death penalty be abolished for all crimes?

50%45 votes
50%45 votes

| 90 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (17+ / 0-)

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:44:07 PM PDT

  •  Agree. Death penalty should be abolished entirely. (5+ / 0-)

    All one needs to know is that innocents are executed.

    •  Well, I'm pretty sure this particular person (3+ / 0-)

      isn't in danger of being innocent.

      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

      by second gen on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 03:26:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hard cases make bad law. (0+ / 0-)

        This person is obviously guilty, but that is no justification for taking his life.

        •  No justification for further expense you mean (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1, Timaeus

          I am finally come around to being against the death penalty mainly because it harms society as much as the executed. I still believe that some are entirely worthy of it---like Nidal Hassan-- but it just costs too much and takes too long with no certainty of completion. (Mumia Abdul Jabar is the poster child for this)  
          There's also the certainty that innocent men HAVE been executed. That needs to stop, now!
          I also think its just and appropriate  to have to spend all the rest of their lives incarcerated with the worst assholes in the world. Think of life without parole as a death penalty that just takes a long time.

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 05:49:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I personally think that wishing a lifetime (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1

          of suffering on a person, rather than a quick, painless death, is more inhumane. But that's just me. I believe in assisted suicides and putting animals down who are suffering or doomed to live their life in a cage, hoping one day that someone might come along and retrain the "kennel crazy" out of it.

          I don't see a point to allowing suffering, even if it's just because one doesn't believe in the death penalty.

          I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

          by second gen on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 06:16:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good grief. (0+ / 0-)

            That comment is so barbaric and savage!

            •  LOL! Barbaric and savage? (4+ / 0-)

              Hyperbole. You have a shit heap of it.

              How is it barbaric and savage to not wish someone immense suffering for the duration of their lives? (likely the next 50 years)

              How is assisted suicide barbaric and savage?

              How is putting suffering animals down barbaric and savage?

              Geezus Krist, get a grip, dude.

              I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

              by second gen on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 06:56:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We have different values. (0+ / 0-)
                •  If by different values you mean that you are (0+ / 0-)

                  okay with suffering and I'm not, then yes, I guess we do.

                  I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

                  by second gen on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 09:07:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Fundamental difference of understanding. (0+ / 0-)

                    Life is more important than suffering.

                    Suffering is not all that big a deal compared to life.

                    I know that for a fact, based on personal experience.  You, I think, have bought into another paradigm that is just simply false.

                    •  Yes, of course. You're the only one who knows (0+ / 0-)

                      suffering. I forgot.

                      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

                      by second gen on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 07:44:25 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

  •  Gary Ridgeway worked out a deal. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw, Kasoru, Be Skeptical, exlrrp, quill

    He had something to trade -- information where he left all those women's bodies -- in exchange for sparing his life.  So it's not the same.

    I've often pointed to his case as the example why I think the death penalty is a bad idea. Ridgeway just disappeared down a hole. We never heard of or from him again. No appeals, no speechifying by his attorney on the courtyard steps. Just poof! He was gone.

    And as angry as some in the community were with the DA's decision, it was a very healing thing for the community.

    But lets never think that Ridgeway was "allowed" to live. He would have been executed. But all those families of all those women would have never have known what happened to their daughters and sisters.

    It was the right decision for that case.

    © grover


    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

    by grover on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:55:05 PM PDT

    •  "Courthouse" steps. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a gilas girl, second gen

      Autocorrect. Can't live without it. Can't make intelligent -sounding statements with it.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:22:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree, (4+ / 0-)

    but this has the added complication of Hassan being an active duty military soldier killing other active duty soldiers.  I'm still anti-death penalty, but if there were ever going to be a distinguishing circumstance, this'd be one.  It's less a matter in this instance of not being able to distinguish cases than that we still shouldn't do so.

    To point two, if that were the standard, all that would have to happen to avoid execution is for the convicted murderer to say he wants it.

    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

    by Loge on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:56:39 PM PDT

  •  I'm bothered by this as well. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Peril, marina, gfv6800

    He served as his own lawyer and he has been preparing to die for a long time. Sounds like he intended to die the day of the shootings. He will become a martyr.

  •  don't expect any quick execution (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlackSheep1, second gen, gfv6800

    The military hasn't executed anyone in over 50 years  Also it would be a lot bigger punishment to make this loser sit in a cell for he next 50 years
    This moron thinks he is going to become  hero by getting executed, the reality is he will get one day of publicity and be quickly forgotten.

  •  I think that he is guilty. There is no (6+ / 0-)

    doubt about it. Timothy McVeigh was guilty. There was no doubt it. They both deserved to die. Let the system work.

    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

    by hestal on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:02:13 PM PDT

  •  Not Sure (6+ / 0-)

    If a comparative study of crimes and punishments is a good way to look at this.

    The death penalty is a savage form of revenge against someone found guilty of a crime. Revenge is not the entirety of justice. In fact, I would say that the more a sentence reflects motives of revenge, the less likely it is to be just.

    More broadly, it works against the social health of a community and probably prevents victims from attaining closure on their experience. It might briefly satisfy a bloodlust, but then what?

    Christ instructed us to turn the other cheek.

    More pragmatic instincts for governance have a lot of different options for handling people guilty of terrible crimes -- removing them from the general population, reforming them ...

    Finally, our Constitution forbids "cruel and unusual" punishment. What punishment could be more cruel?

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:03:51 PM PDT

  •  It would cost hundreds of thousands per year (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lordcopper

    to lock up this ungrateful psycho in some high-security prison somewhere. That money could be used used for better things like paying for a few teachers or subsidizing healthcare for many poor families.

  •  It should be permissable in the military (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlackSheep1, johnny wurster, sandbox

    A soldier who kills his fellow soldiers in support of the enemy during a time of war pretty much has it coming.

  •  Nidal Hasan forfeited (5+ / 0-)

    his life and right thereunto when he turned his privately-owned weapons against members of the United States military services while on duty in a clinic where they were not armed. He said he did this in service of protecting Taliban leaders and avoiding deployment to the war zone himself, and he was a disciple of the odious (and executed) traitor Al-Awlaki. This makes him a traitor.

    But I would prefer to see him spend LWOP in a military prison, comporting with military regulations as to his appearance and behavior, rather than grant his death wish, had I been on the bench for his trial. It is likely that the appeals process -- since he clearly did not act as adequate counsel in defense of his life -- will bring about some form of a LWOP sentence.

    There is no argument here that he is not a traitor.
    There is no argument here that he is not a murderer.
    The only argument here is that he ought to have to pay for what he did, and death is too easy.

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:22:29 PM PDT

    •  So LWOP becomes ADWOD (0+ / 0-)

      Active Duty Without Discharge.  Works for me.

      For every slam-dump murder case, there are a thousand that include some withheld evidence, nagging doubt or questionable police/prosecutor conduct.  One only has to watch  Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills to see how a vengeful and blood-thirsty town can rush to judgment, even condemning a teenager to death.

      BTW, I don't know about military justice but civilian courts don't allow a self-represented convict to appeal based on ineffective counsel, IIRC.

      Guns don't kill people but there's always one there at the time of death.

      by john07801 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:40:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  UCMJ appeals process is automatic (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lordcopper

        and yes, it's probable that an appeal will reduce the sentence to life without parole.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:54:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  All death sentences are automatically appealed (0+ / 0-)

          regardless of criminal justice system.  

          My comment, however, dealt with defense appeals based on "ineffective assistance of counsel."  Perhaps you didn't read that part of my comment.

          Any reduction in sentence will come from a different theory of law, if so.

          Guns don't kill people but there's always one there at the time of death.

          by john07801 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 12:31:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no, I think the problem is that he clearly didn't (0+ / 0-)

            present adequate evidence or witnesses in the penalty phase. He's trying to get a death sentence; his appointed attorneys attempted to intervene but he refused. The appeals will have at least two avenues in overturning a death penalty.

            LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

            by BlackSheep1 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 11:17:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Another reason it's wrong: (4+ / 0-)

    We live in a democracy in the 21st century.

    Democratic states should not put people to death.

    Death as a form of criminal justice is a hold-over from pre-modern forms of government and justice, and draws it's philosophical and judicial rationales from pre-modern notions.

    There's no place for the death penalty in a modern state or a modern military.
    There

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:45:55 PM PDT

  •  No Military person (3+ / 0-)

    has been executed since 1961.  There are currently 5 on military death row, having been there for years.  The Military Justice System automatically includes multiple appeals.  And at the end of the day the Commander and Chief has to approve the execution.

    Hassan ain't going anywhere anytime soon, regardless of what he wants.  Years, decades?

    He's going to rot in Leavenworth for a long, long time.

    And that's good enough for me.

    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

    by EdMass on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:50:58 PM PDT

    •  Think of Life w/o Parole as a Death Sentence.... (0+ / 0-)

      ......That takes a long time.
      For those who think the death penalty is worse, I think I'd rather have the death penalty than having to be locked up with the military's worse assholes for the rest of my life, then die there.
      I know someone who spent time in the DB and his opinion confirms this

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 05:57:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  given his current condition that long long time (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Peril

    might be the rest of his natural life ... and that, I think, might be ok by me. What I don't want is to see this guy loose again, ever. I feel the same way about Bales, though.

    Atrocities, both sets of murders. War criminals, both convicts.
    On the same scale as Kissinger / Bush the lesser / Cheney / My Lai?

    Kissinger's been convicted in an international court, IIRC.
    Bush / Cheney, not yet.
    Calley was pardoned ...

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 03:01:29 PM PDT

  •  You know what's great about being a liberal? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny wurster, Dr Swig Mcjigger

    We really know how to pick our spots!

    /snark

    Non futuis apud Boston

    by kenlac on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 03:03:12 PM PDT

  •  Not all. (0+ / 0-)

    I wouldn't support a complete end to the death penalty, but certainly would for heavy restriction of it.  It should only apply to particularly heinous murders, genocides and treason, and in all cases the standard for conviction must rise beyond reasonable doubt.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by kirrix on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 06:35:24 PM PDT

    •  That's what I thought for about 25 years, (0+ / 0-)

      but I eventually realized that that's a crazy position.

      The problem is:  innocents get put to death.

      It is IMPOSSIBLE to remove that problem.

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