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Yes, folks, just when you thought the GOP couldn't get any further removed from compassion of any kind, New York City mayor hopeful, the GOP's very own Joe Lhota (sorry--can't read that name without thinking of that other wack-job Joe, the one in Arizona named Arpaio) let it be known that he is in favor of killing kittens.

You read that right.

A couple days ago two feral kittens were discovered living on the tracks of an aboveground subway station in Brooklyn.  Since the likelihood was high that the kittens would be killed by a train (or by making inadvertent contact with the third rail), track workers decided to suspend train traffic temporarily while they tried to catch the kittens and remove them from harm.  

Well, as anybody who has tried to catch a feral cat knows, it isn't just a matter of a few Here, kitty kittys and the judicious placement of a saucer of milk.  It took two hours to chase these guys down.

Meanwhile, of course, people being what they are (and New Yorkers even more so) travelers on the stuck trains became infuriated.  This flagrant trampling of the Constitution's LXVII Amendment rights, which guarantees all Americans of the bourgeoisie and above that their lives will never be inconvenienced by any creature as lowly as a kitten,  prompted Lhota to issue his condemnation of the effort to save the kittens, which I paraphrase: "Run 'em over!"

Now let me introduce you to the vile, satanic monster-creatures whose antics nearly brought down the entire financial and business empire centered in New York City.  Those with weak hearts or stomachs be prepared to look away...

Word is that both John Boehner and Mitch McConnell would also like to condemn the saving of these kittens, but can't because of the quantity of rage-foam buildup in their mouths.

Originally posted to Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:39 AM PDT.

Also republished by PWB Peeps.


What was the right thing to do here?

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Comment Preferences

  •  What a pair of cuties! (16+ / 0-)

    Hope they can be socialized and find homes.

    And I hope Joe Lhota is found wandering on the tracks...

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:44:41 AM PDT

  •  Uggggh (17+ / 0-)

    it takes guts to come out and publicly say "I am in favor of killing kittens."
    Unfortunately it's the wrong type of guts.

    Thanks for posting. T&R.

  •  Clearly, the one on the right (17+ / 0-)

    is one of Basement Cat's minions sent to destroy Manhattan.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:49:58 AM PDT

  •  Pooties 2, politicians 0 (16+ / 0-)

    and with luck they'll keep that athole from ever being mayor.

    If it's
    Not your body,
    Then it's
    Not your choice
    And it's
    None of your damn business!

    by TheOtherMaven on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:52:16 AM PDT

  •  A NYC subway car... (6+ / 0-)

    ...holds 86 people. That assumes everyone is sitting and nobody is standing.

    Let's say trains were on the 10 minute schedule. Two hours means (2 hours x 60 min / 10 min) = 12 trains.

    That's (12 x 86)= 1032 people.

    They lost 2 hours. Let's say they made minimum wage.

    1032 people x 2 hours x $9 = $18,576 dollars.

    •  Thank you, Mr Wall St Journal for the analysis n/t (13+ / 0-)

      Some here tend to forget $$$ isnt the sole arbiter of virtue and value in this culture.

    •  Nice analysis (12+ / 0-)

      However you  leave out a couple of salient points.

      Statistically, any random crowd in a big city like New York will contain only about 60% who are actually employed.  The rest (juveniles, the elderly, tourists, transients, neer-do-wells) need to be taken out of your calculations.

      Then of the employed, at least a third of them would be on salary, and thus a two-hour train tie-up would not affect their earnings.  

      Further, not all of the non-salaried employed that were on that train were stranded in the midst of their work schedule.  If some were going to work and ended up late because of the delay, an equal number would have been going home and thus would not have missed any work.

      Then those who would have missed an hour or two's work could have replaced that money in their paychecks from their sick days or PTO (personal time off) allotment.

      Lastly, whatever monies individual workers may have lost pay-wise, the companies that employed them would have gained (by not having to pay it out), and also further benefitted from having to pay less into FICA and insurance premium funds.  So this "lost" money is actually money gained.


      I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

      by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:19:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That kind of math is always fun. (11+ / 0-)

      There are endless scenarios to apply it to and all equally as meaningless and pointless. Life isn't always about dollars and cents.

    •  2 dead kittne bodies cause whole train to derail (4+ / 0-)

      killing 1/2 of those 1032

      516 people dead

      how much are they worth?

    •  Good point. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marykk, mconvente, Calamity Jean, Byrnt

      Logically you are right, but emotionally the average person's brain makes illogical exceptions (Google "spindle cells").

      But back to your math...I wish my mega company would use it every time it puts me through some office-space-TP-form type nonsense.

      Consider my time card, used by thousands in my company. You click through a labyrinth of random screens to get to it, to fill in a minefield of non-intuitive fields with cryptic codes, and it's all bullshit to boot. What should take seconds takes minutes. It seems unimportant until you multiply that by head count, and the cost is staggering.

      I could give a hundred more examples of corporate time banditry (self assessments to start), based on the assumption that we peons have unlimited time for meaningless anti-productive nonsense.

      A modest proposal...lead our over-paid under-IQ'd corporate leadership down to the subway....

      "I wonder why Congress again in a new poll out today--11% approval rating. (It's) because they don't work for us. They work for the sons-of-bitches who pay them." Cenk Uygur

      by Dave in Columbus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 10:48:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  MTA keeping to a 10-minute schedule? FAIL. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rubyr, Pragmatus

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 11:58:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  dog person here BUT killing cats is sociopathic (11+ / 0-)


    from a practical stand point wouldn't the dead bodies of the cats possibly cause an accident anyway

  •  So much fail in this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mconvente, jayden, nycwahoodem

    Full disclosure: I live in Brooklyn, work in Manhattan, and sometimes take the train line (Q) that was affected by this shut down. Furthermore, I was not personally affected by that specific incident.

    Second, Joseph Lhota, while a Republican and I'm not voting for him for mayor, used to run the MTA, our transit agency. So I think he knows what he's talking about when it comes to NYC's public transit.

    Third, the affected stop was Church Ave in Flatbush, which is a solidly middle class neighborhood. It's not some "bourgeoisie" area as the diarist claims.

    Last, I would also not have shut down the system. NYers rely on our public transit, and a two hour shut down for cats is crazy. Sorry, I love pets, but it just is unnecessary. Subway rats get run over all the time.

    So please do some research before you embark in your freakout.

    •  A quote might be of some help to you... (3+ / 0-)

      "All man's miseries derive from not being able to sit quietly in a room alone."  Blaise Pascal

      Same is true of most Americans, and certainly many subway riders, who have an ingrained sense of entitlement that they not ever be subjected to unforeseen delays for any reason.

      By the way, how did you know that all the people on the affected trains live in the Church Avenue area of Flatbush?  Just because that was the station involved doesn't mean that everyone on all the stopped trains lived there, and thus were of a social class lower than the bourgeoisie.

      And with a little more relaxed reading you would have deduced that the reference to the "bourgeoisie" was tongue-in-cheek.  You will search long and hard in vain (and I can picture you doing this) for the 66th Amendment to the Constitution.

      I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

      by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:40:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I can't prove all lived in Flatbush (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        But a little research would prove to you that Flatbush and further south are very middle, if not working class, neighborhoods of Brooklyn. You seem to think that the subway is such a luxurious accommodation, when the truth is you're more likely to find a mix of classes on a subway car than in the very class segregated areas of NYC. The subway isn't a choice, it's a necessity for New Yorkers, which you clearly fail to acknowledge.

        This is just another example of outrage without research. All you needed to see was Republican and kill kitties and you automatically drew a false conclusion. So as I said before, please do some research before you scoff at the way 8 million New Yorkers get around our city.

      •  You prove his (and my) point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        By the way, how did you know that all the people on the affected trains live in the Church Avenue area of Flatbush?
        Yeah, no shit.  Because when you stop a single train for two hours, you screw things up for everyone who uses that line - the rest of Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Queens.

        Have you ever even lived in a city as dense as NYC?  I'm going to guess no, because if you did then you would realize that shutting down an entire city line (two actually!) for 2+ hours screws up people picking up kids from a summer YMCA camp, or going to a doctor's appointment, or going to work, etc. etc.

        Sorry if that screams "entitled" to you...

        "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

        by mconvente on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:50:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Eliminate all these feral (8+ / 0-)


    We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:13:59 AM PDT

  •  Well, if Joe Lhota's foot was stuck in the rails (6+ / 0-)

    I agree I'd have to think it over carefully before deciding whether to alert the MTA police to his weak cries for help. Maybe over a nice latte at STARBUCKS.

  •  Fortunately (6+ / 0-)

    There are more cat lovers in NYC than Republicans.

    Besides Lohta was the last head of the MTA that raised the fare on mass transit and the bridges further hurting workers, screwing truckers and commerce.

    He has as much chance of being elected mayor of NYC as turd in a litter box not being flushed into the sewer system.

    "Information is power. But like all power there are those who want to keep it for themselves" Aaron Swartz, 1986 - 2013

    by TheMomCat on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:40:33 AM PDT

  •  You clearly don't know this area of NYC then (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mattc129, nycwahoodem, sviscusi

    This isn't a bougie area, this particular subway station is in a working class neighborhood.  So cut out the NYC bashing.

    Two hours might be a reasonable amount of time, but what if it took all day?  You yourself state that it can take a long time to lure the cats away from the tracks.

    What if the delay was during rush hour?  What if parents need to pick up their kids from school/daycare/etc.?  What about if you're going to a doctor's appointment and now you can't be seen because you missed your scheduled time and they are booked the entire day?

    Have you ever lived in a dense city before?  Because it sure doesn't sound like it.

    Some of these lines deep in the outer boroughs don't have an extra express line like those in Manhattan do, so that means you would be shutting down service for every single remaining stop on the line.

    It's not like people are gaining some sadistic pleasure out of keeping the subway lines on and possibly running over the cats.  But to state that shutting down an entire subway line for several hours is only a mere "inconvenience" is just being disingenuous.

    "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

    by mconvente on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

    •  Do YOU know NYC? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      First of all, the only people "trapped" on trains would be those who were on trains stopped between Church Street and the next station in either direction.  All other trains would proceed slowly to their next station, and wait there for the signal to proceed.  Any passengers on those trains had the option to get off the train and use alternative means of getting where they were going, particularly when the delay dragged on.  They could have used buses, taxis, called friends--any number of alternatives present themselves.

      The decision to halt traffic was made because the track workers figured it would take five or ten minutes to catch the cats.  Once committed to this policy they continued to pursue it, rightly or wrongly, since the only persons really stuck were those in the trains between Church Street and the next stations inbound and outbound.  If ManhattanMan's estimate of 86 persons per subway car is to be believed, then fewer than 150 people had their days interrupted by an extravagant, if unforeseen, delay.

      I have relatives who live in the NYC area, and have been to NY many times, and delays are simply part of the experience of riding the subways.  The best way to deal with them is to have developed a little tolerance as part of one's psychological makeup.  I'll repeat for your benefit the quote I posted above.  I suspect it will mean little to you, but what the hey.

      "All man's miseries derive from not being able to sit quietly in a room alone."  --Blaise Pascal

      I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

      by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 10:20:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, actually, I DO know NYC (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mattc129, nycwahoodem

        I grew up in northern New Jersey, just about 15-20 minutes outside of NYC.  Been there countless times.  So yes indeed I know the city.

        It's way more than just the individuals trapped in the affected rail cars.  It's 2+ hours of passengers that now have to find a different way to pick up their kids, or make that doctor's appointment, etc. etc.

        Yeah, sure delays happen all the time - for track work and electrical issues.  Which most of the time (at least for maintenance) are known well in advance of their scheduled repairs.

        And jeez, you're scolding New Yorkers as a whole for being "bourgeoisie" and then insisting that there are countless other options for travel.  Yeah, try telling a low income worker to take a $40 cab ride into Manhattan (vs. a $2.25 subway ride).  I'm sure that will work out just fine.

        Who's being "bourgeoisie" now buddy?

        "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

        by mconvente on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 11:12:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  actually (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mattc129, mconvente

        depending on if an A or B car, each car holds around 200 standing at 42 sitting. since on average there are 10 cars, thats over 2,000 people a train.

        delaying commuters who are the middle class ones not in cabs or car services, for 2 hours for 2 cats is why people often think liberals are ridiculous. i grew up with a cat, i loved my cat, this was silly.

        •  Then your argument is with the station workers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          who decided to hold up the trains to see if they could rescue the cats.

          The topic of this diary was the ill-considered response by the GOP's candidate for mayor of New York City.  Whether or not you think posing danger to animals is inconsequential if the alternative is slowing or stopping a subway train, Joe Lhota was just plain stupid to come out with such remarks a short time before the election.  (Hint: this was the point of the diary.)

          Anybody who had to get anywhere wasn't glued to the trains that sat idle at the stations in Brooklyn.  There are eight subway lines (and innumerable bus lines) within easy walking, bus or taxi distance from Church Avenue Station.  (See red circle on subway map below that shows where Church Ave Station is.)  So perhaps the guys at the station who decided to try and save two kittens figured that anybody stuck on the trains, if they were in a hurry and bothered to use their heads, could get where they were going with a minimum of disruption.  Of course this wasn't my original point, but it has been brought into the discussion by elements who believe that humans should never have to wait, and when they are forced to, it is acceptable and even laudable to complain about it like children.

          I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

          by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 03:44:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Unbelievably wrong about station location (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            This just further proves my point that you have no idea what you are talking about. I've included a zoomed in version of the official MTA subway map (cropped) below with two circled areas: first is zoomed to your circle, and the second is zoomed to the actual Church Ave B/Q station.

            Your version:
             photo BrooklynHeights_zpsadb03efb.jpg

            The actual station:
             photo ChurchAve_zps928ffa3f.jpg

            So, you can clearly see there aren't "eight subway lines" within walking distance to the real Church Ave station. And, as real New Yorkers know, some of these lines don't run on weekends, like the shared track B train and sorta close 5 train, which could have caused even more problems had the disruption occurred then.

            Again, you just took a bite of red meat consisting of "Republican" and "kill kitties." Do some research before you go on your outrage tour which makes liberals look ridiculous.

            •  "Republican" was linked to "kill kitties" (0+ / 0-)

              by Joe Lhota.  That was the point of the diary.  Still is.  He was very stupid to say the things he did.  The word "politician" has the same roots as the word "polite"; he failed apparently to get the memo.  

              If you can't detect the difference between satire (e.g. "vile, satanic monster-creatures") and outrage it's no wonder you automatically equate "liberals" and "ridiculous".

              You know, you'd get a lot more mileage out of your indignation elsewhere.  Just Google "Hillary Clinton Benghazi cover-up" and you will find enough to keep you occupied 24/7 for the next 1200 years.  :o)

              You're right about my mistakes on the map.  I couldn't find a large enough version for my poor eyes to read so I placed Church Avenue Station in the wrong location.  But the point that people had no options once the trains stopped is fabulous (in the sense of "derived from a fable or fantasy").

              I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

              by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 07:38:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  an aboveground subway station (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mattc129, mconvente, Pragmatus
    A couple days ago two feral kittens were discovered living on the tracks of an aboveground subway station in Brooklyn.
    If what you mean by an aboveground subway station is an station on an elevated line, I do not think that that is correct.

    If memory serves, the tracks in question are not elevated.  Rather, they are in an open trench.

    At the Church Avenue Station, the tracks pass underneath the station house, which is at street level, and Church Avenue itself.

    The tracks and station platforms are below street level, essentially in a short tunnel.





  •  Kill A Kitten (Stephen Lynch) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 10:17:12 AM PDT

  •  "PUSSY RIOT" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Pragmatus

    — N.Y. Post front page headline

  •  He later said.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jabney, Calamity Jean

    motherhood is overate, apple pie sucks, he would kick puppies, and babies should be pinched and not kissed....

    (OK he didn't say it but that's his mentality)

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

    by dopper0189 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 02:18:21 PM PDT

  •  damn feral cats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Nothing against people rescuing cats, when it can be done, but unless a serious reduction in cat breeding occurs, and a reduction in the amount of people that think free-ranging cats are okay, you can't save all of them. You just can't. And they occasionally attack people, spread diseases, and kill a lot of birds.

    •  There are vigorous efforts underway (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, mcronan

      to control the feral cat population in America.

      In the past, whenever there was a campaign to get rid of them they were simply killed on sight.  This got rid of perhaps 1% of any given colony, and made not the slightest difference in the number of ferals, because populations of these animals maintain an equilibrium based on resources and if you kill a few, overnight a few more will stray in from adjacent areas.

      The new approach is TNR--Trap, Neuter and Release.  Neutering and releasing keeps the cats in the colony, but they can no longer breed, so the colony doesn't get bigger by reproducing, and if all the colonies in an area are similarly monitored and treated the population drops dramatically.  TNR has been so effective in many areas in the US, reducing the overall feral population by 50% or more, that the feral cat problem in those locations is considered solved.

      Remember also that nobody in his right mind would want zero feral cats in his town or neighborhood.  Why do you think you are not overrun with rats, mice and cockroaches (yep, #1 predator of large, water-bug type roaches is the common house cat)?  Feral cats do this work largely unbeknownst to people, because they do it at night or whenever they can't be seen.  And despite what you may have heard, feral cats do not attack people unless they are attacked first or cornered.  First thing a feral kitten learns is to keep quiet; second thing he learns is when trouble approaches, run away and/or hide.

      There is a great story about a famous American writer who inherited a farm from an uncle who died.  He was infuriated by a colony of feral cats on the property, spent years trying to kill them himself, finally, at great expense, hired professionals who succeeded in wiping them out.  Next growing season his farm was so overrun with mice and rats he had to abandon it.  Rats even brazenly invaded the house and bit him and his family with impunity.  The farm was unsalable because once field mice are free to establish extensive burrow-networks there is no getting rid of them, and every crop you plant is doomed to fail.

      Here's a little info on the local TNR folks in Los Angeles.

      I don't ask that people donate or participate in causes like these, or to even like cats, just be reasonable about feral cats and efforts to manage them.

      I'm not sixty-two—I'm fifty-twelve!

      by Pragmatus on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 04:20:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND? (0+ / 0-)

        I would want zero cats. They SPREAD DISEASE. They kill wildlife. They occasionally attack people. They kill many birds.

        Take the wild cats away, and coyotes, foxes, raccoons, opossums, and other predators will control the rodent/rat problems. Wild cats such as bobcats, lynx, and mountain lions won't catch diseases from them. The idea that the ecosystem needs cats everywhere or we'll be overrun by rodents is stupid. If you want cats as pets, that's reasonable, but the idea they belong everywhere is stupid.

        •  You pissed off the pootie people (0+ / 0-)

          which is a mistake almost as stupid as Joe "not gonna get elected to anything in NYC now" Lhota's.

          If it's
          Not your body,
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          And it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:10:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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