Skip to main content

Latest in the continuing saga reported in the Guardian today is that US provides raw sigint to Israel that contains our phone calls and electronic communications without any restraints on use.

http://www.theguardian.com/...

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  blockquote (10+ / 0-)

    the first three paragraphs of the article, and add some thoughts on why this is bad, and i bet this will get some traction. the story should. the international ramifications, alone, are worth considering.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:08:37 AM PDT

  •  The phone call CONTENT database story is... (14+ / 0-)

    ...one of the most significant and (without question, and maybe the most), certainly, one of the obfuscated stories of the overarching NSA story, in general.

    As I noted in a post by Joan McCarter here, yesterday...

    Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011
    Ellen Nakashima
    Washington Post
    September 7, 2013

    The Obama administration secretly won permission from a surveillance court in 2011 to reverse restrictions on the National Security Agency’s use of intercepted phone calls and e-mails, permitting the agency to search deliberately for Americans’ communications in its massive databases, according to interviews with government officials and recently declassified material.

    In addition, the court extended the length of time that the NSA is allowed to retain intercepted U.S. communications from five years to six years — and more under special circumstances, according to the documents, which include a recently released 2011 opinion by U.S. District Judge John D. Bates, then chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court...

    Bold type is commenter's emphasis.

    Call Content! (Note the "pre-Snowden" date of my post.)

    Call CONTENT!!

    Call CONTENT!!! (One of the more interesting references, from 2004!)

    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

    by bobswern on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:12:23 AM PDT

    •  How will the administration respond? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobswern, phonegery, JVolvo, NonnyO

      "I didn't know" or "We couldn't have known" or "Look, Syria!"

    •  All the better to snag you, my pretty (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobswern, phonegery, JVolvo, NonnyO


      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:19:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The MSM, which has repeatedly noted that they... (9+ / 0-)

      ...ARE "self-censoring" this story, across-the-board, is feeding into a very strange zeitgeist, IMHO. The palpable nature of this aspect of the "state surveillance story" is one of the most incredible things I've witnessed in the U.S. media in my life (and, I've been a student of the media virtually my entire life, too). It's as if everyone's fearful of the blowback that might occur if these truths were fully embraced by the MSM.

      The bottom line is that the story of our government's "hoovering-up" of massive amounts of domestic phone call content, not to mention international call content (which a few MSM'ers are acknowledging), is taboo.

      We're literally just beginning to witness this narrative taking hold in the MSM (hopefully, since a greater truth is this has been discussed in public for at least a decade; actually for an entire generation, but very much in "background") since, much like the climate change issues and the twilight of this country's global power, it's a defining issue (albeit a tragically negative harbinger of things to come) of the history of our time, IMHO.

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:22:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NARUS, an Israeli company bought by Boeing... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead, native, JVolvo, NonnyO

        ...makes the highly-obfuscated, "hoovering-up" of phone call content story on/by the NSA (both domestic and international), one with a history with very extensive roots originating in Israel.  Here's the Wiki link to NARUS.

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:34:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, but here's the good news...snark (8+ / 0-)

    Here's the link to the NSA/Israel agreement

    Pertaining to the protection of U. S persons.

    And I quote from page 1, Section I Purpose, paragraph (d)

    (U) This agreement is not intended to create any legally enforceable rights and shall not be construed to be either an international agreement or a legally binding instrument according to international law.
    BTW, how has NSA helped with the Syria issue? You would think between NSA and Israeli SIGINT, we might be able to pin point where the really bad guys, pretending to be rebels, are.

    It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

    by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:18:06 AM PDT

    •  german intel (5+ / 0-)

      is convinced that assad didn't order or approve of the cw attack. makes me wonder what the nsa knows. makes me wonder about the entire casus belli.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:21:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Me, too (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis, LieparDestin, native

        There are several reports from regular Syrians on the ground that the rebels had sarin, stored in tunnels, and accidently set it off on August 21.

        Because there are so many conflicting reports, even the German reports are conflicting, the case for "beyond a reasonable doubt" can't be made.  This is why I think Obama's White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough tried to base the case on "common sense" like that would be a rationale for bombing Damascus.

        Common sense informs most thinking people that it would be BEYOND INSANE for Assad to order the use of CWs.  This is why I think 2/3rds of Americans don't support a missile attack.  

        We are not convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Assad is responsible for August 21 CW disaster.

        We know too much history.  

        The CW attack is the sort of thing AQ would do to inflame the situation because AQ always gains insurgent strength when there is national chaos in a country.  Many have blamed AQ for CW attacks in March with some compelling physical evidence.

        Sadly, some who know history might even wonder if JSOC was involved, through proxy, to discredit the Assad regime bolstering the case for his removal.

        What a freaking mess!

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:33:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  read obama's speech (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          War on Error, greenbastard, native

          the section attempting to incriminate assad is very brief and vague. given that this is about potential war, that really jumps out. of course, the speech is designed to keep people from focusing on actual proof of culpability.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:36:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Link to transcript of Pres Obama's address (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Laurence Lewis, LieparDestin, native

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

            I think the President made a mistake by using "I" instead of "we"

            I will not put American boots on the ground in Syria.

            I will not pursue an open-ended action like Iraq or Afghanistan.

            I will not pursue a prolonged air campaign like Libya or Kosovo.

            Who edits his addresses?  I would have made the change from "I" to "we" in a heartbeat.

            Assad specific comments:

            The situation profoundly changed, though, on August 21st, when Assad’s government gassed to death over a thousand people, including hundreds of children.

            Moreover, we know the Assad regime was responsible.

            In the days leading up to August 21st, we know that Assad’s chemical weapons personnel prepared for an attack near an area where they mix sarin gas.

            They distributed gasmasks to their troops.

            Then they fired rockets from a regime-controlled area into 11 neighborhoods that the regime has been trying to wipe clear of opposition forces.

            Shortly after those rockets landed, the gas spread, and hospitals filled with the dying and the wounded.

            We know senior figures in Assad’s military machine reviewed the results of the attack, and the regime increased their shelling of the same neighborhoods in the days that followed. We’ve also studied samples of blood and hair from people at the site that tested positive for sarin.

            This would be a targeted strike to achieve a clear objective: deterring the use of chemical weapons, and degrading Assad’s capabilities.
            Is it possible that Assad's forces had intel that the rebels were closing in on the CW site?  And, if so, of course they would get out the gas masks.

            Also, of course there was discussion after the CW event.

            Either way, CWs in a country enmeshed in civil war, with some dirty players posing as rebels, is a disaster waiting to happen.  For the good of Syria and the Middle East it would be good to get rid of Syria's CWs.  But is it true that it is easy to make sarin?  AQ hasn't used sarin outside of Syria, so not a usual tactic, although AQ is accused of doing so in March.

            There needs to be a true cease fire.  I would like to see all Syrians join together to rid the country of the dirty players, then sit down and hash out the way forward without weapons of any kind.

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:00:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  notice (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              War on Error

              how all his claims of assad's complicity focus on what was done, not on assad's ordering it- or even being aware it was being done. nothing he said contradicts or even calls into doubt the german report.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:11:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I did notice this. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laurence Lewis, native

                I really expected the address to include all the latest reporting, which would have required a quick rewrite, an all nighter before Tuesday night.

                Obama wouldn't have had to give credit to the conflicting news reporting, but he could have stated that there is some doubt about who actually released sarin.

                That said, the Russian/Syrian proposal boxed Assad in, just like the red line comment boxed President Obama in.

                On Monday, Obama had an out and he had an offer on the table to resolve CWs in Syria.

                Perhaps he could have said:

                Yes, sarin was used, over 1,000 men, women, and children died.  No one is disputing that sarin gas, a deadly chemical weapon was used.

                Before this happens again, fearing both a military strike and another CW attack within his country, the Assad regime has agreed to allow the UN to come in and decommission Syria's CWs.

                However, if there is any resistence or delay by any faction of the Assad regime for any reason to do so, then the military action will be taken without warning.

                This would have put 100% responsibility on Assad if a military strike were to take place, imo, and released President Obama/US from any burden of criticism.

                Actually, I think this is the outcome, so great work diplomats.  I hope this works out.

                I just hope the bad actors posing as rebels don't use CWs as a ploy to keep the civil war going.  Chaos is AQs playground.

                But, hey, what do I know.

                It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

                by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:27:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  i disagree strongly (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  War on Error

                  with failure on assad's part to be casus belli to military action. there are still no good military options or rationales.

                  The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                  by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:31:38 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with you re casus belli (0+ / 0-)

                    however, and sadly, this is the best we can expect at this time, agree?  We can't take away the military option or Assad won't comply.  Carrot stick and all that.

                    Where we stand today is an improvement of where we stood a few weeks ago.

                    Hopefully, the CW  agreement will precede a cease fire agreement to make it possible for the CW to be removed from use in whatever ways the concensus group agrees.  Then, during the cease fire, the non-Syrian bad players can be removed and the Syrian bad players can be stopped, both of whom we can pray don't have CWs.

                    If this could happen, I think the Syrian gov and people can hash out some sort of agreement to end the armed conflict.  They have to be battle weary after 2.5 years.

                    Aid can come into Syria to return the refugees.  And you would think NSA, Syrian intel, and others can work together to thwart efforts by any to reignite fighting.

                    Thanks for the conversation.

                    It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

                    by War on Error on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 09:56:54 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  The distrust (5+ / 0-)

        of the NSA caused by Snowden very likely was responsible for the skepticism in which the Assad 'phone call approval'-story was viewed. Someone needs to give the guy a damn medal already.

        "These are established professionals that have a liberal bent, but ultimately most of them if pushed will choose professional preservation over cause, such is the mentality of most business professionals" -BoA/HBGary/CoC

        by LieparDestin on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:36:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i'm glad (5+ / 0-)

          that he's removed himself from public view. the more people focus on him, the less they focus on the scandal. but given the nsa's resources, you'd think they'd have dug up some serious proof of assad's complicity.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:40:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Theyre too busy (3+ / 0-)

            teaming up with private contractors to teach Rebels about CW's.
            2012 CNN Link.

            One of the aims, the sources said, is to try to get real time surveillance of the sites because the international community would not have time to prevent the use of the weapons otherwise. The program could explain how U.S. intelligence was able to learn what U.S. officials said was evidence the Assad government is mixing precursors for chemical weapons and loading those compounds into bombs. The intelligence, one U.S. official told CNN last week, came not just from satellite surveillance, but also from information provided by people. The official would not say whether the human intelligence came from telephone intercepts, defectors or people inside Syria.
            One could assume based on this story that they would have sufficient means of finding out Assads complicity, and are unable to do so.

            "These are established professionals that have a liberal bent, but ultimately most of them if pushed will choose professional preservation over cause, such is the mentality of most business professionals" -BoA/HBGary/CoC

            by LieparDestin on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:52:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  and given the german report (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              War on Error, LieparDestin

              that commanders have spent months asking for permission to use them, with assad telling them no, it's also possible all the mixing and loading was unauthorized. the germans intercepted actual communications between commanders and the syrian presidential palace. one would think the nsa also could have. one would think that if assad gave an order, there would be proof.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Wed Sep 11, 2013 at 08:56:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site