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Originally posted to Comics on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 02:50 PM PDT.

Also republished by Firearms Law and Policy, Shut Down the NRA, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Mandatory Trigger Locks (6+ / 0-)

    The Federal government should require every gun be locked at the trigger except while being actively used by a licensed, registered, trained and insured gun bearer.

    If you're against trigger locks, you're for killing people.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 03:04:37 PM PDT

    •  Better yet, how about brethalyzer locks (10+ / 0-)

      so that only sober gun owners can fire their weapons?

      "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

      by Lily O Lady on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 03:17:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Navy yard shooter was licensed, (5+ / 0-)

      registered, and trained. I don't think we have gun-owner insurance that probably wasn't an option. Trigger locks sound like a good idea but they won't stop an asshole like that from committing a crime. But that's the thing, no law will stop an asshole like that. We need to get off the emphasis on spree killers and assault weapons and do something meaningful like reducing the causes of gun crime -- poverty, idiotic drug laws, domestic violence, better access to mental health (apparently he believed ELF was messing with his brain and he blamed the Navy for that). Trouble is the same morans who listen to the NRA also are against fixing any of those issues. Shit. Maybe the gun locks are the best we can do. And that's a sad statement.

      Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 03:22:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We need licensing to have graded sanctions (7+ / 0-)

        for negligent discharge and other gun events that don't involve injuring or killing someone.

        Like the points you get for speeding.

        An occasional mistake or lapse of judgment? You get points and pay a fine for that.

        E.g. forgot your loaded gun in your bag as you go to board an airplane? You get points for that and pay a fine.

        Successive lapses of judgment or attention and the points and fines go up, eventually triggering temporary loss of RKBA and mandatory safety training.

        E.g. negligent discharge with no injuries? You get higher points for that than an incident of unlawful carry. And you pay a fine, experience temporary loss of RKBA and remedial training.

        E.g. negligent discharge with minor injury to self? Even higher points, longer loss of RKBA, and remedial training for restoration of rights.

        etc. Your gun gets into the hands of a child? Points, fine, Loss of RKBA for 5 years, and remedial training...

        and so on.

        This stepped penalty scheme will accomplish several reforms:

        1. Takes guns out of the hands/homes of people who have proven they are too sloppy, too forgetful, or too unskilled to own/carry guns for self defense. BEFORE someone gets shot.

        2. Does not create a new class of persons funneled into the for profit prison system. Also does not need any new felony gun laws that strip voting rights.

        3. The fines could be used directly to fund mandatory training in the principles of self defense and de-escalation strategies for anyone who applies for a concealed carry license. Persons in DV situations, and other vulnerable groups, could be offered the training for free, even if they have no interest in a CCW permit.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 03:49:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No Silver Bullet (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DefendOurConstitution

        I didn't say that trigger locks would stop all killing. All any one change can do is help.

        So are you for or against trigger locks?

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 08:28:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd be for them (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DocGonzo

          As you said, who would want more gun deaths?

          Now, get that law passed the NRA fearing Senate and House.

          I honestly think we've got a better chance at decriminalizing marijuana or reducing poverty. That's how effed up our national political stage is right now.

          Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

          by ontheleftcoast on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 10:15:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  well two guys in MI shot and killed each other (4+ / 0-)

    after a traffic dispute, and both had concealed carry permits; congress cannot legislate away absolute, raw stupidity, unless maybe mental health exams?

  •  "...their ridiculous vigilante fantasies." PERFECT (6+ / 0-)

    http://

    As of 9pm 8/30/13: RETIRED Pie Warrior. Substance over Sh*t Flinging (as best as I am able) ~ JV

    by JVolvo on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 03:34:06 PM PDT

  •  On the news tonight, families demand all new cars (11+ / 0-)

    be equipped with backup cameras, because a horrifying 210 Americans a year die from being run over by by backing up cars, half of them kids - often run over by their own parents.

    30000 Americans killed with guns a year.

    Which deserves more attention?  210 dead a year, or 30000 dead a year?

    •  Car events were unintentional. (3+ / 0-)

      That's pretty much the difference.

      A HUGE chunk of that 30K per year is intentional self-shooting.

      Another chunk of what's left is intentional cop-shooting-someone.

      Then there is the intentional criminal-shooting-someone.

      The unintentional gunfire is pretty small, but there's always an amount of blame on the person holding the gun because he/she broke one of the rules of operation. They could SEE where the barrel was pointing, for example.

      For a car, people can NOT SEE where the back of the vehicle is pointing all the time.

      That's where the fundamental difference is between the car backup cameras and the gun examples. The physical possibility of seeing the aim point of the barrel versus the sometimes physical impossibility of seeing the area right behind the car.

    •  You cannot compare those two, even though (4+ / 0-)

      gun deaths are 150 times that of backing up over people deaths, this is about freedom! The Constitution clearly states that it doesn't matter how many die in defense of that liberty - 150 time, 500 times, 1,000,000 times - no number of deaths is too many to protect our freedoms. OTOH the Constitution says nothing about cars and therefore car deaths do not matter and cannot be compared to deaths that are so key to protecting freedom. Stop comparing apples and oranges will you? Just because guns seriously injure over 105,000 people (of those "only" about 32,000 of them die - the other get to live with varying degrees of disability), and cause more than 9,100 of those seriously injured are children under 18 is no reason for you to try to take away my God given rights!

      /snark - and the sad part is that the firearms regulations that most of us propose (licensing, full criminal background checks and registration) in no way violate anyone's rights - constitutional or other.

      (Thanks for the data on car backing up deaths.)

      “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

      by DefendOurConstitution on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 04:43:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  last frame: accurate depiction of DK /nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener, Glen The Plumber

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 04:05:01 PM PDT

    •  I like the placebo gun idea (3+ / 0-)

      for placebo controlled studies in defensive gun use.

      Imagine, a set of volunteers would be given a handgun, that is equipped with a microchip and camera that records the entire GPS history of the gun during the study, and that records video wherever the gun is pointing whenever the safety is switched off.

      The study subjects will not know if their magazine has live bullets or blanks and will log in each day they carry to answer survey questions about why they carried that day, where they carried, and if there were any defensive gun use incidents.

      I would guess that the uncertainty of whether they had blanks or bullets would modify behavior in a good way, and make those who carry more cautious about reliance on the gun.

      Not a perfect experiment but could guide other studies, and participants might modify their behavior as they become hyper-conscious of why/when/how they carry.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 04:18:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another law = what exactly? (4+ / 0-)

    I don't understand how adding trigger guards, registration, or insurance would prevent another mass shooting.

    I do know that weapons were banned from the Navy Yard, except for MPs.  

    Weapons were also banned from the mall in Africa.  Fortunately, a former British marine broke that rule and had a handgun and returned fire.  Pinning down some of the terrorists long enough for many to escape.  He is credited with saving over 100 lives.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/...

    The cities with the worst records on violence - LA, Chicago, Detroit, et al all have tough gun laws.

    If you want to deal with the problem you've got to face two thorny issues -- the bulk of mass shootings are done by the mentally ill so what aspects of medical privacy are we willing to sacrifice?

    And, the bulk of criminal shootings are concentrated in areas with high minority populations.  If you clamp down in poor urban areas and leave the white suburbs alone how is that going to work?

  •  Very sad and no matter what excuses the NRA (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ichibon, Glen The Plumber, Miggles

    apologists make, if there were no guns available to these people there would be no shootings by mentally ill people, there would be no shootings by gang members, there would be no shootings by abusive spouses, etc.

    In spite of all the excuses by the NRA apologists only one fact is clear: shootings, the deaths that occur from them, and the serious lifetime injuries that tens of thousands of Americans have to accept would not happen if we had rational firearms regulations as they do in most civilized countries.

    Last, but not least, the firearms regulations that most of us propose (licensing, full criminal background checks and registration) in no way violate anyone's rights - constitutional or other.

    “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    by DefendOurConstitution on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 04:48:58 PM PDT

  •  babies... (2+ / 0-)

    ...safe at last!!

    "...if you can't feed your baby, then don't have a baby..." m. jackson
  •  I like the last one. nt (2+ / 0-)

    "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

    by Hayate Yagami on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 05:12:32 PM PDT

  •  ... Yet another gun control proposal (0+ / 0-)

    Link paranoid survivalists - the ones that bury their weapons - with swimming pool installers, who'll profit from the survivalists' expertise in digging and inability to obtain gainful employment.

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