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Figures of President Barack Obama with the word
The conservative idea of "clever". Kinda painful, huh?
Yeah, this is a mid-week nutpick, but it's a nutpick with a mission: To help explain the current conservative mindset.

It's a comment on a thread on Breitbart which is literally trying to unskew yesterday's Washington Post poll of the Virginia governor's race.

A veteran Virginia pollster, Breitbart News has learned, this the results of the poll are "at least" 6 points off, and notes that the Post polls ordinarily overestimate Democrat performance in the Commonwealth.  
Ha ha ha! I never tire of the unskewers! But that's not what I want to focus on. Rather, it's this comment:
no amount of economic or cultural chaos and disaster will ever incite those people to turn on their democrat masters. However, considering Obamacare's devastation..should Virginia choose to drink the kool-aid too...and elect McAuliffe ...it will all but convince me that the country has totally surrendered to a communist future....and there won't be any turning the tide in 2014....

There are simply too many takers extracting from a shrinking class of makers in this country. The intricate web of taxation and regulation has imprisoned the economy....guaranteeing that the Cloward and Piven blueprint will succeed.

After that...it could be anarchy....insurrection...or revolution.....who knows?

The entire conservative mindset is encapsulated in those three short paragraphs—the sense that everything has gone to shit, but people stick with Democrats because they're takers while conservatives are makers, and that if it continues much longer ... violence! All wrapped up in a nice bundle of f'd up punctuation. (At least it was run through a spell checker.)

That whole "makers" vs "takers" was the basis of Mitt Romney's 47 percent nonsense. And it's also the modern formulation of the racists' lament, in case you were wondering why race was missing in the comment above. It's not good white people doing the taking, you know?

But that comment also hints at the desperation and resignation coursing through today's conservatives: The notion that they've lost the battle. Sure, 2008 and 2012 were big blows, but they were softened by 2010's GOP wave. They want to believe those two presidential years were anomalies, but they know better. Once Virginia goes Blue, bucking a 40-year trend in which the party in the White House lost the governor's race, it'll confirm their worst fears. They will have lost the country and 2014 will only ratify the nation's new direction.

Thus, the final appeal to violence—because if democracy fails them, then what is left? The question will be whether that violence will remain a fantasy as they politically disengage, or whether they'll begin to act on it.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:15 AM PDT.

Also republished by Virginia Kos.

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Comment Preferences

    •  It's called The Villages (54+ / 0-)
      As of the census of 2000, there were 8,333 people,... The racial makeup of the CDP was 98.4% White, 0.5% African American,... Hispanics or Latinos of any race made up 1.3% of the population.
      ...
      ... 40.4% from 45 to 64, and 57.5% 65 years of age or older. The median age was 66 years.  

      Considered a heavily Republican community, The Villages is a popular election stop and platform for personalities such as former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee and talk show host/author Glenn Beck.link

      Florida Govenor Rick Scott also made an ostensibly-non-partisan appearance here to announce his official policy plans a couple of years ago. Transparently partisan.

      Also

      The whole place was built in a year or so, ...  but it has made-up history, including a man-made lake, which is supposed to be 100 years old with a lighthouse, and two manufactured downtowns that were themed by entertainment specialists from Universal Studios.
      ...
      In The Villages, it means no more school buses holding up traffic, no more loud teenagers, no more local government intruding into your life, and no media full of bad news about your community.
      Finally,
      Children who visit are unwelcome after three weeks.
      I was born and raised in Florida, and that last sentence says about everything you need to know about retired conservatives in Florida.  It's been that way my entire life.  "No" to taxes because they've already raised their families and they don't want to pay into local education systems.  "No" to zoning changes that allow more family-friendly and kid-friendly activities for the same reason...and cuz kids are a bother, you know.  "No" to anything that might help other people but won't directly benefit them.
    •  Exactly where the Taliban live in their respective (8+ / 0-)

      countries. That's why we have to take them seriously. It's important we beat them in a "pre-violence" state national disunity and then when the appeals to violence grow more shrill and louder we join with the larger normal American citizenry to marginalize and neutralize their power.
      This is why the calls by some on this site to forget about the ballot box and get into the streets and have a revolution are not wise. That set of circumstances could easily work to our misfortune.
      We need non-violent street action in this country but the victory will be won at the ballot box.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:42:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Didn't they already? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, GrumpyOldGeek, CatKinNY

      The biggest laugh I've had was when a tea tard tried the veiled or even non-veiled threat of violence, typically with something along the lines of "I know that you're afraid of my guns".
      That went badly for the idiot, as I calmly explained that their firearms are not of concern, even their mere possession of them is of no concern to me and even their attempts to utilize them to move from sedition to treason isn't of grave concern, as I'd likely be recalled from military retirement and I and my teams would treat them the same way we treated AQ and the Taliban.
      When the tard then got "bright" and said, "if you made it to the base", I laughed each time, relating how I do personally own a full dozen firearms, including a "black rifle" with match barrel and precision sights and trigger, an M1A, assorted other high power rifles and more pistols than I and my wife have hands (granted, several of those pistols are competition models, by why cloud the "issue" with silly little things like facts.
      For, the fact is, there are many of us who are middle of the road. We're quite liberal in some areas, quite conservative in other areas, middle of the road overall and we do own firearms. We just don't try to utilize them as some bizarre form of social discourse.
      Well, until we're pressed. Then, we are happy to explain that we have as many or even more firearms than the pinhead has and those of us who are veterans explain such, our proficiency and our lack of empathy toward anyone who would attempt to unlawfully remove our nation's government.

      And to not put too fine a point, a really nice icing on the cake, I happily explained that if they did have a compound that was problematic, I had no problem using a SOFLAM to drop that compound on their heads, as well as the heads of any inhabitants of said compound.
      For, then it is war and they are traitors.
      If I did it to foreign enemies of our nation, why do these idiots think I'd not do so to them when they would take up arms against the nation?

      We'll suffice it to say, the conversation shut down, the tard departing quickly and quietly, with a thoughtful expression on their faces for once in their lives.

    •  Theme park? (0+ / 0-)

      They already did, they call it the governor's mansion. and it's populated by evil Goofy.

  •  Rich takes 10-100 > $$ than they contribute (13+ / 0-)

    In other words orders of magnatude, actualy Some like Rush Dumbass take a THOUSAND TIMES

    80 % of Success is Just Showing Up!

    by Churchill on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:19:29 AM PDT

  •  How did the ancient Greek democracies end? (20+ / 0-)

    by falling into plutocracy

    What are republican (small R) ideals if you are only as equal as your checking account?

    •  Gibbon (27+ / 0-)

      In the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon concludes that Rome fell because powerful people pursued private interests -- their own -- rather than public ones. This is precisely what we are seeing here.

      "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

      by bink on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:31:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Matthew 25:40 is hardly understood (9+ / 0-)

        "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."  

        That concept seems to be understood by many alleged Christians to mean that when you do not help another human being you are only hurting Jesus and since Jesus can handle suffering it is ok to persist in bad behavior. But if it was looked on as a hypothesis with meaning that when one suffers, all suffers since everyone is but a cell within a great body called humanity; then we would have a far different society.

        Eastern holy men describe entering subtle states of awareness where they feel the suffering imposed on humanity by humans treating other humans poorly.   They affirm that humanity makes up a great body that we are all apart of.  Ignore or allow one part of the body to be infested with disease and the greater body ultimately loses its health and capacity to fully express itself.  When a civilization acts as it did either in Roman times or today where only a miniscule part of the body is worthy of health and prosperity, it is inevitable that the clue Jesus gave of a great cosmic principle will be learned as being fact the hard way.

        "Forget not, My brothers, that you are One" - World Teacher Maitreya

        •  Great Remark (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CatKinNY

          There are lots of similarities between the words of Christ and the belief systems of the East, especially India -- Buddhism and Hinduism. It is well-known now that there was considerable traffic in religious ideas between the Subcontinent and the Near East during Roman times. I often wonder how much the spoken words of Christ as recorded in the New Testament are reflective of this.

          "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

          by bink on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:09:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There's too much socialism in the Bible... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dancing Frog, Ahianne, CatKinNY

          ...for the baggers.

          Especially that hippie that comes around near the end.  

          Driving the moneychangers out of the temple?  That's terrurism worthy of Occupy!  

          The widow's mite?  That's just elevating a "taker" to favored status!  Same with people who pray publicly - it's best to be up-front with your piety so that everyone can see you.  It's all about how pious you appear!

          You can't spell "Diane Feinstein" without "NSA".

          by varro on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 12:23:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  oversimplified (10+ / 0-)

      Athenian Democracy was really eroded by two main factors:

      Sparta lost its military dominance after Epaminodas handed the Spartiates their ass at the Battle of Leuctra.

      A young man by the name of Alexander (the Great) thrust Macedonia onto the world stage, crushed the Greek city states and squeezed them through the hegemon of the Hellenic League.

      Post-Alexander Athens and Greece in general drifted through weak leaders until they were fully brought into the Roman Empire.  First by Sulla who left some semblance of Athenian democracy in place, but even that veneer of independence was erased by Augustus.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:36:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Greek democracy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JerryNA, CenPhx, Ahianne

        was perfectly healthy in the early-mid Hellenistic period, even after Alexander.  As Athens and Rhodes clearly show. Athens spent most of its time in the Hellenistic period practicing their patrios politeia - the broadly participatory democracy given final form under Lykourgos in the 4th century BC.  The only time they didn't was when they were physically occupied by a Macedonian garrison.  Rhodes' democracy was both prosperous and powerful until Rome economically and politically destroyed her.  The cities of the Achaean League were largely democratic in governance.  The Aetolian League was broadly democratic in its governance, including an assembly of all citizens.  Rome crushed both.

        It was the Hellenistic cities' and leagues' inability to militarily withstand Rome that led to the demise of democracy.  In the absence of Roman conquest, it has been plausibly, even convincingly, argued that the various Federal leagues of the Greek world would have continued their process of sumpoliteiai and isoteleiai, producing in time a unified Greek federal state founded on the notion of local democracy.  Far from "drifting" there was an obvious push toward democratic federalism.

        And the demise of Sparta, which was a reactionary even the standards of Greek oligarchies, was hardly a cause for the demise of democracy.  Thebes was a flourishing democracy in the 4th Century BC, so if anything, the fall of Sparta strengthened Greek democracy, not weakened it.

        •  Athens? perfectly healthy? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MadEye, CenPhx, Ahianne

          You and I define a healthy democracy very differently.

          Lets see, Mr. the Great died in what, 323?  Athens moved quickly to start the Lamian War where the Greeks have almost double the number of fighting men as the Macedonians (almost half of which were Athenian) and after a few minor gains they are broken at Crassus.  Antipater destroys Athenian laws and strips citizenry from anyone that doesn't have 2000 drachmas and dissolves the League of Corinth.

          Then Demetrius takes over and imposes all kinds of "reforms" that were oligarchical at best and Macedonian power-controls at worst.  Citizenship gets all kinds of new requirements and limitations, the Aeropagus starts getting power back and the Eccelesia gets watered down.

          Then we get to Chremonidean War where Athens teams up with Sparta to try and throw off Macedonia again and gets CRUSHED again.  This time at Corinth with the Spartan King dead on the field.  Athens is then starved into submission and falls.  Athens gets no "administrator" like Demetrius on this go-round that will at least preserve the appearance of Athenian Democracy.  No, this time they get Macedonian troops occupying Athens around the clock.

          I mean I assume we're passed the "Early-Mid" period you are talking about since once we get to the Roman Alliance, Mithridatic Wars and the Third Macedonian War.

          I guess I can see your argument with Rhodes, being physically isolated and was able to retain its independence, even after the Battle of Cos.   And yes, Rome ultimately crushes Rhodes, but I thought Rhodesian independence was one of the things they won from Rome by agreeing to turn on Macedonia in the Second War?  

          The Aetolian League was a pirate confederacy and primitive at that.. yes it had certain things like proportional representation, but it was based on how many men you could contribute to the military.  And weren't they the first ones to side with Rome when Rome needed ground troops to hold back Philip V while it was dealing with Carthage?

          Look.. I guess you can look at certain institutions that continued to exist in Greece and say they were doing fine but if you hold up Hellenic Greece under a Macedonian Hegemony that allowed places like Athens to pretend they were independent and Classical Greece under Pericles, I don't see how you take this argument very far.

          I do agree that Sparta was not your "True Democracy" sharing the ideals of Athens, but the military might of Sparta protected the entire peninsula from the raging Imperial powers for a very long time.  Once Sparta was proven to be beatable outright on the field, Greece and every one of her city states became ripe for the picking and NONE of the powers that were eyeing it up had any intention of preserving "Democracy".

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:41:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You curious fascination with battle-outcomes makes (0+ / 0-)

            for a cartoonish portrait of what was going on in Athens (and the rest of Greece) after 323.  

            Re Lamian War and Demetrius of Phaleron:  Dem. rules with a Macedonian garrison behind him until 307, when he is driven out, his oligarchical restrictions cast aside and the Lykourgan system completely restored, i.e. after 307, Athens is running like it was in the mid-4th century, i.e. a broadly based participatory democracy.  The final battle of that war was at Krannon, not Crassus, who was a Roman consul of the first century BCE.

            Chremonidean War:  Yes,  in 262 they lose again and are again occupied by the Macedonians and the "constitution" made oligarchical UNTIL 229, when they throw off the Macedonian shackles and again institute the broadly based Lykourgan democracy.  Athens operates under that system as  an independent and free city from 229-146.  Yes alliances were made and broken with various monarchies, but that only reinforces the reality of the sovereign Athenian democracy of this period.

            So within a span of 177 years (323-146), i.e. from 323 to 307 and from 262-229 - together a period of forty-nine years, the Athenian democracy was forcibly suppressed by the Macedonians, but other than that, it operated as it had in the classical period.  What impresses is that in each case, after 16 and 33 years respectively, far less than a generation in each case, the democracy re-emerges undaunted and essentially unchanged.  From 510-146, more than 350 years, Athens did not practice democracy in only 50-some-odd years, and then always under the gun of overwhelming enemy military might.  

            The institutions of Athens and the abiding commitment of the demos to self-governance could only be suppressed by armed force, a truth Augustus well understood when he finally placed a new institution, "the hoplite general," always a Roman citizen, over all the other Athenian democratic institutions.   In this he was simply mimicking previous Roman practice post 146, when they made all formerly democratic allies become oligarchies.

            Minutiae:  Rhodes was hardly isolated, exposed as she was to both the Seleukid and Ptolemaic fleets, which she regularly challenged and beat.  The adjective is Rhodian, not Rhodesian.

            I fail to see the relevance of pointing out that Rhodes and the Aetolians were allies of Rome.  They were independent, self-governing political entities seeking new support where they can against their established enemies.  Why shouldn't they have?

            Sparta was really destroyed as an effective power, even within the Peloponnesos, after she was trounced by Epaminondas in the 360s and 370s.  Macedonian garrisons were all over the Peloponnesos and mainland Greece in the Hellenistic period - Chalchis and Corinth were called by one Macedonian king "the fetters of Greece" These too were finally challenged and overthrown, not by Sparta, but by Athens and another Greek federated enterprise, the Achaean league, which was unfortunately destroyed by Rome in 146 BCE for showing and independent foreign policy.

            I would recommend the following to you:
            C. Habicht, Athens from Alexander to Antony
            E. Robinson, The First Democracies: Early Popular government outside Athens.
            V. Gabrielsen, The Naval Aristocracy of Hellenistic Rhodes

  •  Every instance of totalitarianism in history... (20+ / 0-)

    has been implemented by a party or movement that divides the population into a productive class and a parasite class.

    The particular identities of who belongs in which class vary from place to place, but the basic intellectual habit of proclaiming some group to be bloodsuckers living off the hard work of regular people is consistent.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:19:58 AM PDT

    •  Hmmm (5+ / 0-)

      I would think a more common thread would be hypernationalism and an over-reverence of the Military.

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:37:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Marxist-Lenninism would rather refute that point. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GoGoGoEverton, annieli, Stwriley

        They were hyper-internationalist and quite unimpressed with the culture of the military.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:50:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Marx was a philosopher. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jds1978, Stwriley, JerryNA

          and Lenin ruled for barely more than a year in a post-revolutionary transition.

          Marxist-Leninism is usually confined to some theoretical thought-experiment about a Proletariat Dictatorship.  

          In fact Leninism led straight to Stalinism and despite the utopian hand-wringing about how Stalin corrupted the ideal principles, I agree more with Chomsky that Stalinism is the natural and logical extension of Marxist-Leninism put into practice.  There is no other possible outcome.

          I'll give you that they strive to be internationalists but every group or government we've seen just uses that as an excuse to create their own "Us vs Them" over-hyped fear-machine and quickly starts fetishizing the uniformed soldiers that are trained up to fight "Them".

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:03:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  IOW, the military violence is NOT a result of... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            annieli, Stwriley

            an ideological "worship of the military," but rather, is a predictable outcome of any totalitarian system, even those whose ideological foundations have nothing to do with "hyper-nationalism" or "worship of the military."

            Which brings us back to the parasite/productive class divide as the common element.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:08:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Totalitarianism vs Feudalism (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe from Lowell

      If you consider the worst of feudal societies as totalitarian, then I think your argument doesn't quite work. Instead, the division is between the workers/farmers and the thinkers/fighters/rulers. The highest ruler (e.g., the Chinese Emperor) gets to be as much of a dictator as he wishes (subject to control or possible revolt on occasion, by the civil service (mostly eunuchs) or the generals) without ever defining a parasite class.

  •  Steel yourselves for some disappointment baggers. (11+ / 0-)

    Levin's scheme for 'taking back the states' may be coming apart at the seams.

  •  Mitt Romney contributed NOTHING to society (25+ / 0-)

    he took, but he didn't give.  F ROMNEY

    80 % of Success is Just Showing Up!

    by Churchill on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:20:17 AM PDT

  •  Their lack of understanding as to what exactly (16+ / 0-)

    is keeping the majority of people from getting ahead in this country is what's REALLY keeping them down. And until they do realize that, they're screwed to (likely) eternal minority status.

    While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:20:23 AM PDT

  •  Plus, as you've pointed out before (16+ / 0-)

    They are tunnel visioned into only seeing things in electoral terms.

    Providing health care? Makes the sheeple too afraid to 'turn on their democrat masters.'

    Not a way to improve the productivity and global competitiveness of the American economy, not a way to lessen the single greatest financial burden most families face, not even a way to put the spirit of the teachings of Jesus into action.

    Nope. It's merely vote-grubbing.

    (Speaking of which, though, I do LOVE my Obamaphone. Wonder what Hilary's gonna gimme?)

    You couldn't load a pistol with dormitive virtue and shoot it into a breakfast-roll - CS Peirce

    by Mr Raymond Luxury Yacht on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:21:47 AM PDT

  •  Ann Coulter has been preaching violence for years (32+ / 0-)

    with barely disguised dogwhistles.

    I owe my DKos memebrship to Coulter. I heard her on the tube in 2006, saying, in essence, let's kill all the liberals. This was when Bush was still pres., and before the election of 2006.

    I figured I better start paying attention.

    “Americans are fighters. We're tough, resourceful and creative, and if we have the chance to fight on a level playing field, where everyone pays a fair share and everyone has a real shot, then no one - no one - can stop us. ”-- Elizabeth Warren

    by Positronicus on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:21:55 AM PDT

  •  Quick point, kos... (8+ / 0-)

    I have seen predictions of potential violent revolution here, too.

    Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

    by Bob Johnson on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:22:36 AM PDT

  •  How long before the un-coded, outright calls for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WinSmith, JerryNA, Rogneid

    violence are not just coming from the fringe? How long before FUX is advocating assassination?

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:23:31 AM PDT

  •  "Takers" versus "makers" (14+ / 0-)

    Modern capitalist society is dominated by a whole host of professionals who are in fact "takers" -- they don't produce anything except paperwork or brutality, and they take for themselves the lion's share of the wealth.  i discussed this reality in this diary back in 2009:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    The "communist future," rather than being the bogeyman the Teabaggers think it is, would be a "union of free producers," in which everyone would be in an important sense a "maker."

    "Every second "progressives" spend on victory laps and triumphalist wankery makes a Grand Bargain more likely." -- "Lambert Strether"

    by Cassiodorus on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:23:34 AM PDT

    •  I would argue that a big chunk of our "makers" (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Penny GC, SuWho, Stwriley, CenPhx

      (corporations) are also high up on the list of "takers."

      The most violent element in society is ignorance.

      by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:49:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Such a simplistic outlook. (0+ / 0-)

      Because medical billing coders, claims adjusters, secretaries and bureaucrats wouldn't exist in a communist society, right? Or did you forget to add 'Luddite Communist' future?

      While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

      by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:01:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Romney and the rest of the 1% (0+ / 0-)

      deliberately invert the invidious Makers/Takers distinction, as documented a century ago by Thorstein Veblen in his magnum opus, The Theory of the Leisure Class.

      Manual labour, industry, whatever has to do directly with the everyday work of getting a livelihood, is the exclusive occupation of the inferior class. This inferior class includes slaves and other dependents, and ordinarily also all the women. If there are several grades of aristocracy, the women of high rank are commonly exempt from industrial employment, or at least from the more vulgar kinds of manual labour. The men of the upper classes are not only exempt, but by prescriptive custom they are debarred, from all industrial occupations…Such being the barbarian man's work, in its best development and widest divergence from women's work, any effort that does not involve an assertion of prowess comes to be unworthy of the man. As the tradition gains consistency, the common sense of the community erects it into a canon of conduct; so that no employment and no acquisition is morally possible to the self respecting man at this cultural stage, except such as proceeds on the basis of prowess—force or fraud.
      Making things is the object of farm work and the industrial occupations. Taking, by force or fraud, is the object of the military and the practitioners of political and financial shenanigans. This comes out of the hunter/gatherer tradition as soon as men's and women's work are separated, is maintained by every form of aristocracy, and continues in modern times.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 03:50:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  At some point they will give up (13+ / 0-)

    and turn inward.  They ae despairing.   Good.  Kill right wing hope.

    8 years of Clinton after Obama.   Pass it on.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:23:52 AM PDT

  •  How can you argue with this: (23+ / 0-)
    There are simply too many takers extracting from a shrinking class of makers in this country.
           My argument is with who "they" consider the takers. The real takers are those who own big energy, big pharma/healthcare, big finance they are the real pigs at the trough and the goal of the media is to deflect the anger and blame the powerless and dispossessed.

    "Remember, Republican economic policies quadrupled the debt before I took office and doubled it after I left. We simply can't afford to double-down on trickle-down." Bill Clinton

    by irate on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:24:08 AM PDT

    •  too many takers like MittRomney & his Loser Family (9+ / 0-)

      80 % of Success is Just Showing Up!

      by Churchill on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:28:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Too many takers" living off of "too few makers" (0+ / 0-)

      You folks here are far more eloquent, and knowledgeable in various exemplary forms of government than I. I value the ongoing conversation here, and think it should be more prevalent here, and elsewhere. Far better than various name, calling, and derisive classification and categorization.
      Maybe we should start measuring contribution in terms of each persons individual man-hours of effort. That might certainly balance the books better, but it starts to sound like socialism, which has been proven unworkable for a whole variety of reasons, the biggest of which is the killing of motivation, personal initiatives etc.
      This could be easily achieved by cranking up the income tax rate up to 100 percent on all but say $200 dollars a week. Again socialism doesn't work.
      We American capitalism seems to have had it closer to right, by having a progressive income tax, (taxing the rich at a higher rate than taxing the poorer) , and of course the rich grouse a bit, as everyone does, cursing the "ties that bind" BUT as far as we know it's the only way that works. Gives everyone a chance to be in the game... more fairly.

      The one percent certainly enjoy riding on the backs of the 99 percent below, as long as we (the 99%) continue to stay in line, and play by the rules. However if there is not enough $ going into the line to stay healthy, and to be able stable, and be able to pull firmly in the harness, with a clear vision of a good healthy future for ourselves and our children and grandchildren. At the moment, the way things are right now, it ain't gonna happen.

      So now, we're trying to work out how progressive the tax needs to be to have a healthy, motivated, system for all  folks to live and work in.

      Yes it's a class versus class issue, but lets quit hiding from it. It's not really an us versus them here in America, like they'd like us to believe, but rather, "How do WE ALL tweek this thing to get it working better over all, and get more American output over all"

      Yes it's true, things are all setup to grease the rails in politics, and corporations, and wall street, problem is on "main-street" (like some places  I used-to-work when I was younger) they said it was a bit more like vaseline than grease.

      There's a lot of things we don't know, but maybe a couple few we do. A lot of us are hard working folk, or wanting to be hard working, and we are falling behind, and the world outside our borders is really getting ahead.  It seems like we're gettin' sucked dry. Like never before in our history.
      Who's been at the helm during the last 35 to 45 years.
      There's something really wrong, and I just can't believe that those leading our society during that time period couldn't figure out what's going on, and how to fix it, unless they don't really care,  and/or they are getting theirs, or there is too much violent chaos for clear thinking, or the demise of Democracy is a foregone conclusion and maybe there just isn't anyway out of it. (At least for most of us)

      Well. Comments welcome.

  •  and presidential vote rigging (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, LillithMc

    Nixon and Bush were not fairly elected. Reagan won by negotiating with the ayatollah hostage takers. GHW Bush won through an appeal to racism and fear that played for one term. Carter and Clinton won fair. JFK maybe not, but Lyndon's landslide was a fair election. Eisenhower failed to condemn the McCarthyites.

    "Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place." -- Mandela

    by agoldnyc on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:24:28 AM PDT

  •  The real "takers" (18+ / 0-)

    The Forbes 400: The Richest People in America

    The 400 wealthiest Americans are worth a record $2.02 trillion, roughly equivalent to the GDP of Russia. That is a gain of $300 billion from a year ago, and more than double a decade ago. The average net worth of list members is a staggering $5 billion, $800 million more than a year ago. The minimum net worth needed to make the 400 list was $1.3 billion. The last time it was that high was in 2007 and 2008, just before the financial crisis. Because the bar is so high, 61 American billionaires didn’t make the cut.
    HT Digby

    "If you pour some music on whatever's wrong, it'll sure help out." Levon Helm

    by BOHICA on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:24:45 AM PDT

  •  Some explain what "Cloward and Piven" are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    I've seen that thrown around but do not understand it

    •  Cloward and Piven (10+ / 0-)

      From Wikipedia:

      "The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of 'a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty.'"

      Here's another name you've probably sen thrown around: Saul Alinsky. In 1971, he published "Rules for Radicals." From Wikipedia again:

      "Divided into ten chapters, each chapter of Rules for Radicals provides a lesson on how a community organizer can accomplish the goal of successfully uniting people into an active organization with the power to effect change on a variety of issues."

      Funny thing about these names: I don't recall ever seeing any of them mentioned on the lefty blogs where I hang out. They're names from 50 years ago that conservative wingnuts -- I'm looking at you, Glenn Beck -- pull out of the closet and dust off to scare people. They pretend that today's Democrats are memorizing the Cloward/Piven/Alinsky treatises so they can finally bring to fruition the plot they have been hatching lo these many years.

      It's hoary '60s radical rhetoric, and the conservatives who keep bringing up these names also love to point out that it was Democrats who opposed Lincoln, who started the KKK, and who strongly opposed civil rights legislation in the '60s (Dixiecrats); they never mention the polar shift that occurred 50-odd years ago, when the racist southern Democrats fled the party to their new home with the Republicans (the Southern Strategy), where they have infected the country with their hatred ever since.

      Black Panthers! Bill Ayers! Bernadette Dohrn! Tremble in fear of the vicious Democrats!

      •  And just to take the Alinsky card into account (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, Stwriley, JerryNA

        how much of his "teachings(?)" still apply today? I mean, times have changed since the days when he wrote that thing...

        That might be something those on the other side might not realize, but hey...

        •  Republicans teach Alinsky (0+ / 0-)

          to their organizers and operatives, but with their own spin, and without any sense of irony over the fact that they are applying the rules to themselves and their own pet issues.

          Ten Ways Republicans Are Giving President Obama A Taste Of His Own Alinsky

          For example,

          No politician can sit on a hot issue if you make it hot enough.
          So they enjoy heating up the Obamacare issue with the shutdown and threats of default, not noticing that this heats up the issues of Republican intransigence and irresponsibility. Instead they retreat ever deeper into "unskewing the polls".

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 04:13:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I see "Alinsky" thrown around by conservatives… (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stwriley, JerryNA, OregonWetDog

        …all the time. And I always mock them, because few people outside of Hannity and Beck fans know who Saul Alinsky was. Hell, I didn't know til I heard Hannity use the word. So whenever I see a conservative write "Alinsky", my response is always on the same line: "Oh nos INSERTCONSERVATIVE has called out the boogeyman!"

        However, this thread is the first time I ever saw the names Cloward or Piven. It's like the conservative noise machine knows that calling out Marx, Lenin, or Stalin has the same Godwinesque power as Hitler have decided to play the evil metaphor game with obscure 60s radicals that even few educated people know about.

        Union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com.

        by DemSign on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:15:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Something to do with Entourage? (0+ / 0-)

      Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

      by Matt Z on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What about corporate welfare, (15+ / 0-)

    unnecessary subsidies, and tax breaks for the rich? That ain't taking??

    "Onward through the fog!" - Oat Willie

    by rocksout on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:25:11 AM PDT

  •  I'm a maker but look forward to our 'communist' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    future. If I knew who he was I'd tell this guy we must be really doomed now.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:26:38 AM PDT

  •  I am personally looking forward (9+ / 0-)

    to the Communist revolution.

    There are some  mansions in New Canaan, Connecticut that would make great worker's communes.

  •  They're actually right (12+ / 0-)

    It's just that they have the identities of the makers and takers backwards.

    I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

    by jhecht on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:27:34 AM PDT

  •  The Tea Party crowd is a bunch of cowards, (10+ / 0-)

    so I don't actively fear violent unrest or revolt on their part.

    I see them as the spoiled toddler at the birthday party who wants all the cake to himself, and cries when he doesn't get his way.

    Their demographics are dooming them, and all they stand for, and they're too ignorant to realize it.

  •  a socialist future, not a commie future, geezzzzz (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChemBob, annieli, nominalize

    80 % of Success is Just Showing Up!

    by Churchill on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:28:03 AM PDT

  •  A great man once said (0+ / 0-)

    Fear leads to anger.
    Anger leads to hate.
    Hate leads to suffering.

  •  Blame the Victim (9+ / 0-)

    Working people are the makers -- literally -- and those than profit from them without giving back are the takers.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:28:25 AM PDT

  •  kos, how can you say "whether they'll begin" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChemBob

    to act on their threats of violence, after the Oklahoma City bombing? after the airplane murder/suicide attack on the IRS building in Austin, Texas?  This is not a future hypothetical situation- there is no question at all.  The lunatic far right wing have already started their murderous terror attacks.

  •  Whatever happened to "Going Galt?" (7+ / 0-)

    Now they're threatening violence? Seems to me that's an admission that no one would miss these losers if they suddenly dropped out of society.

    And, isn't that the whole point? Market capitalism presupposes that if one Oil/Toilet paper magnate drops out of the economy (Koch Brothers) someone else will rise up to fill that market niche.

    In any case, I've been making this point for years. The whole Second Amendment fetish on the right is a veiled threat to use violence if political means no longer work. They will convince themselves that national health insurance is the same as Nazism, thus justifying violent resistance.

    I don't think the vast majoritry of tea partiers will resort to violence. But, as we see with radical Islamists, it only takes a few.

    @hesiod2k11

  •  They are not conservative, kos; they're extreme (8+ / 0-)

    radical, racist, ignorant, stupid, evil, vile, venal, mean, nasty, selfish, hateful, sadistic.

    They are tools of the robbing, takin, predatory, money hoarding, evil 1%.

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:30:46 AM PDT

  •  Makers vs. Takers (7+ / 0-)

    While the whole makers vs. takers controversy is couched in reverse logic diatribe and false or missing statistical analysis, the core of what is being said is true.  There are more takers than makers now.  It's a direct result of the income inequality problem that is only getting worse.  If you oversimplify the situation as being those with lots of money being makers (regardless of how they got rich) and the takers being those without (regardless of why they can't seem to get ahead), then takers are certainly increasing their "assault" on the makers.  It's basically how the entire world works.  If there's a monopoly on any given resource, whether it be food, money, land, power, etc., those without will be putting pressure on those who control the resource.  Either those resources will be shared willingly, or they will be compelled to share them, perhaps by government, perhaps by other means (including sporadic violence).

    But, as usual, the concept that economy is being imprisoned by taxation and regulation is exactly backwards.  The economy is being starved of circulating money because of the lack of taxation and regulation.  Taxation and regulation are the legal methods to compell the sharing of resources.  The conservatives just can't stand the idea that Rules are created to block their monopolization of resources.  The other inherent problem with this statement is the assumption by so many of which side of the equation they are on, blindly assuming that they are all makers, when in fact they are takers, but at a different level than they are discussing.  Makers make things, they are also known as workers.  Takers take things, they are also known as management or owners.  The difference between the two are owners have control of money and power, and don't want to share it.

    •  Yeah, it is almost funny (6+ / 0-)

      Ask most people whether their #1 problem is taxes. Especially those unemployed in the past few years. It is not even close to their #1 issue.

      It is really weird and scary that well-funded astroturf groups and right-wing media have gotten ordinary folks to line up behind a platform that doesn't address their needs and priorities, but those of the 1%.

      They just keep repeating the line that the economy is in the shitter because rich people aren't rewarded enough. Well, the first part is true: we do have a crummy economy. The second part is not true, and never has been.

  •  Let em revolt. Go right ahead. (6+ / 0-)

    Because next time were going to get Reconstruction done right. I can't wait. Make my day. These people need to feel what real Federal big government feels like, Sherman style. We should build new drones just for them and call em Shermanators.

  •  Assuming that one doesn't believe that (5+ / 0-)

    Ohio shenanigans turned the 2004 election, with the exception of 2004--which Bush almost certainly would have lost had it not been for 9/11--a Repub hasn't legitimately won a presidential election since 1988. And Poppy Bush won that one only because Dukakis was a terrible campaigner and he ran against Willy Horton. So, really, Dems have dominated presidential elections since Reagan and it's only been extraordinary measures or circumstances that have allowed Repubs to "win" the presidency. Now the teaparty swing of the GOP makes it even more out of reach, along with the senate, and the house is now in play.

    Please proceed, GOP.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:32:44 AM PDT

  •  Exactly.. (0+ / 0-)

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:34:51 AM PDT

  •  Working people, worldwide, have absolutely no (8+ / 0-)

    idea of their real power and their real potential. And the powers that be want to keep them ignorant and fighting among themselves. A worldwide cooperative humanity could really make this planet hum! And save the planet at the same time.

    Worldwide, nonviolent strikes might be a good beginning. Just sit down by the billions in the streets and refuse to do their business as usual. Might get their attention.

    "The soil under the grass is dreaming of a young forest, and under the pavement the soil is dreaming of grass."--Wendell Berry

    by Wildthumb on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:35:04 AM PDT

  •  The question is, how many teabaggers will resort (0+ / 0-)

    to violence when they lose at the polls? There will certainly be a few, but will there be enough to pose a threat to America itself?

  •  I live in Mathews County Virginia which (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stretchslr53, JerryNA, emyrphe, nocynicism

    abounds with Teabuggers.  Even family.  They are like zombies.  They live in another world apart from ours.  They have lied and threatened physical harm.  They seem to be filled with self righteousness while being vile and full of fear and hate.  If ever there was a mass psychosis this is it.  Yes I fear that they will resort to violence in the end.

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:35:49 AM PDT

  •  Get Out In Front Of It (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA, emyrphe, Penny GC

    Thanks for bringing up the topic everyone is afraid to talk about. Do you really think the low information, right wing crazies are going to just crawl back into their holes, when the inevitable reality of their extinction as a political force is finally driven home in the next few election cycles? One thought is to get out in front of the issue and publicly shout from the rooftops about the potential for right wing terrorism. They aren't going to down quietly and want to take as much of America down the toilet with them as they possibly can. I hope I am wrong, but I really doubt it.

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:37:57 AM PDT

  •  Insurrection I say? (6+ / 0-)

    They're in their last gasps of political life, blaming the reasonable majority of American people for destroying their concept of democracy.  While they spew hatred and misinformation to their base from broadcast microphones, twenty-four seven, through out our country while rigging state legislatures to permanent seats in congress through gerrymandering  supported with funds from the Koch brothers and others to implement their policies of theocratic government.  

    Now, they see their failure at hand so they advocate revolution and anarchy as they discard the constitution they previously claimed to love so much.  A government of laws is just too messy for them to govern so they advocate lawlessness and disorder.  How patriotic is that?

    •  Symptom of this: 2nd Amendment fetishism (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JerryNA

      'Those people' think their wealth is going to be taken by a redistributionist federal government, so they're going to need the ammo box after they lose at the soap box (media), ballot box (elections) and the jury box (courts).

      Let's see, who else in American history was fearful of the possibility that the federal government would place limits on owning 'other persons' restrict people's right to property - and actually took up arms to defend those property rights? Anyone? Anyone?

    •  It isn't anarchy that they want... (0+ / 0-)

      Far from it. Anarchism scares them, and its the last thing they want.

      Does the following description of anarchism sound like something they would support?

      If only the these free market zealots really were anarchist.

      Real anarchists would replace the state with federations of egalitarian participatory communities which socialize property used in the means of production.

      Anarchism, a socioeconomic theory whose name was first coined by Proudhon in 1840, seeks to abolish all forms of unjust authority, and is opposed to all oppression brought about through hierarchical power relations.

      It is thus in favor of women's equality, since patriarchy is hierarchy.

      It supports worker's rights more than any other movement, since it would eliminate workplace hierarchical dominance from the ruling, owning class, and allow workers to freely associate without coercion, with democratic self-management of the collectivized work environment.

      It is against racism, since racism is hierarchy of one race over others.

      It would not allow theocratic interference in individual's choices, since curtailing abortion rights or imposing bigotry and homophobia is using church authority to create hierarchical relationships over others.
      It would provide health care to every citizen, since equality in the workplace, allowing workers to share equally in the fruits of their labor, also extends to economic equality in consumption of resources. The class hierarchy where wealthier citizens' needs are met, while others go without, is economic exploitation by the ruling class, and economic hegemony over the poor and working class.

      Since most people are workers, and want to be productive, then social needs like health care should be available to all. People can't be productive if they, or their loved ones, are sick.

      And it would also provide retirement pensions, and rights to housing, for all the same reasons. Working people (the 99%) can produce enough to take care of the working community, when economic equality becomes a social agreement.

      Oh, if only the Tea Partiers were anarchists.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:11:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's their God-given white..er ah, right... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    googie, jds1978, nominalize, Stwriley, a2nite

    to TAKE back the country, thus making them TAKERS.  oh wait, that can't be right....er ah.....

    Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

    by Floyd Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:44:45 AM PDT

  •  They will turn more violent (4+ / 0-)

    These are sociopathic, emotionally stunted, hate filled people. The question is when, not if, they will turn violent. They only understand acts of aggression. Their own acts of treason deserves a rebuttal.

    The good news is that I see more and more Liberals realizing that there is no way to talk with these crazy people. When we get more people understanding that the better we and our country will be.

    When another person wants you dead you do not discuss reason with them, you utterly crush them.

    •  Someone would have to be willing to take (0+ / 0-)

      the first step, which I don't think is any of them. They're all willing to join in on the chaos once it's clear that their side is winning. They are good opportunists, after all.

      For now, I think the most they'll do is sit there and scream "Hitler" on various comment sections on news clippings.

      We're way away from seeing the Second Civil War.

  •  Now it has Gone From (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emyrphe, nominalize, nocynicism

    I will destroy the US and World Economy if you don't starve children and the elderly to I will revolt and murder innocent people if I don't get to starve children and the elderly.

    Someone from the Secret Service or FBI needs to visit these people, last time I checked advocating armed revolt is a crime.

  •  I want to tell them it's all gonna be ok. (0+ / 0-)

    We can all just get along and make this work.  You see, even if it isn't ok, when we reach those end times, Touchdown Jesus will ride in on a velociraptor, in a pin-striped blue suit and red tie, sporting a Bushmaster.  He will smite the Kenyan usurper with one mighty wave of his free market invisible hand.

    (To plagiarize "Casino" and "America's Most Gangsta"):
    'And that's that.'

    Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

    by Floyd Blue on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:49:24 AM PDT

  •  already happenin at your local RW radio station, (0+ / 0-)

    many the loudest of which are broadcasting state-funded college sports right after and before.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:50:07 AM PDT

  •  They have to rationalize things somehow.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AnitaMaria, JerryNA

    It's not human nature to admit one was wrong. Instead, they look for another angle - no matter how absurd - to perpetuate their world view. If they admit they're wrong, it's like saying their entire life was a lie. That's a pretty big step to take, especially for someone who is older.

    Freedom isn't free. That's why we pay taxes.

    by walk2live on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:50:09 AM PDT

  •  This is exactly what is wrong. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emyrphe, PlinytheWelder

    Go to any site. All the talk is getting rid of whoever chaps your ass politically. This is the lie is it not? Divide and conquer. The guys sitting in the seats of power are driving the car. They steal your money, do things in your name to people in other countries, send your ass to jail for a small crime while the guy who runs the money laundering operation for a large drug cartel. whose product is destroying your schools and commumities walk around Nieman Marcus unscathed. They pick the arguements for us to scream at each other about and while that occurs, they scheme another way to spirit another 100 mill to a bank account on some island somewhere that they have purchased. Pick a subject and you could find a Dem or Repub who has been purchased with blood money. Pick any large program and you will find a group of guys who have picked the carcass clean. Money disappears, guns, tanks, planes. All of it bought and paid for with your hard sweat and tears. Until we can agree in principle that we are being had, the situation will continue to downward spiral until there is nothing left.

    •  Better get your word salad in whil you can. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK, Glen The Plumber

      You won't be here much longer, troll.

      •  OK. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JerryNA

        So be it. However you can't deny that both sides are clearly have been purchased. How can a progressive reporter who lost his job being critical of a republican president, also be taking a progressive president to task through the court system to overturn the NDAA. He was successful for a day. However, it was overturned. How could an administration allow large banks to be bailed out on the backs of taxpayer money? Then be followed by an administration that allows for the contiuation of the same program under the guise that prosecuting these crimes of outright fraud would be harmful to the banking infrastructure. Got news for you Jazz. It's all the same. These guys don't care. Listen to them and they will tell you. Read John Perkins book, or how about Naomi Klein. Or how about Chris Hedges. Or how about Neil Barofsky. Here is another hint. The new head of the federal law enforcement agency? Former board member of the largest money laundering outfit. If that doesn't float your boat, how about crimes against communities. Interest rate rigging that has cost the US and state tax payers plenty. How about your friends and neighbors that have been thrown out of their homes under fraudulent pretense. Word salad indeed. Good day to you sir.

  •  Get ready for a bumpy ride, comrade. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:51:27 AM PDT

  •  Mark Levin's head has exploded several times (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bewareofme, JerryNA

    lately. He was complaining a few nights ago that Democratic mailers were lying about Cuccinelli's stance on birth control devices, his argument being that Cuccinelli couldn't possibly ban birth control because it's constitutionally protected. I'm sure he's just being disingenuous and knows exactly why women are staying away from Cuccinelli in droves - it's the very thought that somebody who thinks the way he does has NO PLACE in public office. He also had Cuccinelli on his show last night. They know there is no way they are going to see a victory in this race (though they didn't exactly come out and say it), but mostly they think it's because of the dreaded "low-information voter". Ha!

  •  Please list what the "Makers" have made (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, this just in

    because from my view in the cheap seat it's nada, zip, nothing(in any order you prefer).

  •  It all comes down to fear and race (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jay C, MrJersey, Berkeley Fred, Stwriley

    You could make the most rational, logical argument, provide statistics about the wealthiest Americans not paying their share of taxes, and subsidies to business who pay their employees minimum wage and force them onto Medicaid--you could paint the clearest, unbiased picture for folks of that conservative, Republican stripe, and they would only see one thing: the "welfare" mom at the convenience store, buying cigarettes and talking on her Obama phone, or the "illegals" siphoning resources from hard-working, tax-paying, REAL Americans.

    It all comes down to race and ethnicity and fear of the end of white supremacy.

    •  But at least whoever made the bobbleheads... (0+ / 0-)

      in the image kos posted at the top of the story put the President in those Hawaiian board shorts. Kind of a tacit admission that he really is a native of the 50th state, even if they still hold on to all the other racist tropes you've laid out (and they do.) Scratch the average teabagger and you'll find an old-fashioned racist under the fresh paint-job of the "maker/taker" ideology.

      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Sun Tzu The Art of War

      by Stwriley on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:15:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Of course, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bewareofme, MrJersey

    the Republican conservative does not accept the results of any election that does not result in the election of a Conservative Republican.  This was the theme of the very first post I wrote for Dkos, several years ago.  Ignore the juvenile humor of the title.

    Reporting from Tea Bagger occupied America

    by DrJohnB on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:55:35 AM PDT

  •  We are all seeing the failure of 30+ years of (5+ / 0-)

    deregulating capitalism.  Unregulated capitalism simply removes the barriers to Darwin economics; capitalism was never meant to exist in an unregulated environment.

    Deregulation comes in all forms; for example, actually easing up on restrictions, such as worker safety, environmental laws, child labor, the list goes on.  Or, it takes the form of tax cuts that skew the playing field away from labor, and towards those who own the means of production.

    Any move back towards a more regulated capitalism (and, at its essence, that is what ACA is - regulating the health insurance market) will provoke screams of "socialism!" and "communism!" from those who stand to lose.

    Unfortunately, those who stand to lose are also those with the most money to give to skew political interests in their favor.

    The most violent element in society is ignorance.

    by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:56:19 AM PDT

  •  It's the nineties, the sequel. (5+ / 0-)

    The original:  "If Clinton gets in there and raises taxes, the economy and the stock market are going down the toilet.  And there's no way in hell he'll be re-elected."

    "Look, we were right, it's been three years and things are awful."

    "OK, what we have here is a little credit card Xmas."

    "Nothing he has done has contributed to this good economy.  It's a delayed effect of Reagan's wise leadership; I predicted this all along."

    "MONICA!!!"  (Veins bulging.)  

    The sequel: Almost the same, substitute Obamacare and end with "BENGHAZI!!!"

  •  The Post poll basically nailed both the (0+ / 0-)

    Obama and Kaine winning margins last year.

    "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

    by conspiracy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:00:05 AM PDT

  •  Regarding the unskewing ... (0+ / 0-)

    did you see the new Quinnipiac poll showing McAuliffe with a 4 point lead?  Different sampling.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    Can't do the happy dance just yet in VA--really need to focus on GOTV.

  •  This shit is getting really old. (4+ / 0-)

    An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

    by OllieGarkey on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:01:12 AM PDT

  •  What's so strange is that the Tea Partiers ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    are the 'takers'. They are who the GOP nobility is referring to with their highbrowed insults. Sadly, the Tea Party peasantry are too intellectually torpid to figure it out.  


    Take me somewhere nice. Reality doesn't play fair. - 16382

    by glb3 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:03:11 AM PDT

  •  ROTFL (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, JerryNA, Slightly Wobbly

    Terry  McAuliffe = communist???

    Sorry, as someone who embraces many socialist principles that is so laughable.  The sad part is that our system defines this as a "serious" voice, but anyone who manifests any openly socialist views at all is peremptorily dismissed, marginalized, and silenced as "unserious".  Ask yourselves why this should be, how it comes to be?  Because it's so damned obviously bass-ackward.

    So let's review.  Terry McAuliffe:  "Proletarians of all nations, unite!  You have nothing to lose but your chains."  Uh-huh.

    “Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. ” ― Paulo Freire

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:03:56 AM PDT

  •  If there were no people of color in this country (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jasonhouse, nominalize, Berkeley Fred

    these same folks talking about freedom and liberty from the "takers" would be agitating for an economic system similiar to Northern Europe.

    Remember southern whites were the bedrock of FDR's coalition. They have absolutely no problem with a government focused on redistribution, as long as it helps them and people that look like them.

  •  awesome...can't wait to win in VA (0+ / 0-)

    ...and imagine all the right-wing Tears of Impotent Rage over the final destruction of their goofy right-wing horror/fantasy. Wooo-Hoooooo!

    "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." -Mark Twain

    by humanistique on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:07:12 AM PDT

  •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jasonhouse, Davidsfr

    I have been saying this for some time now. The Tea Party movement is embedded in such extreme hyperbolic rhetoric and a warpped worldview (supported and encouraged by an increasingly isolated media structure) that it has no choice but to eventually lead to violence. There are more than enough gun nuts in the movement with fantasies about a new "Real America" revolution that at least a few of them (probably a few million) are capable of starting a guerilla-like war against the government and its supporters. They are already engaged in an internal warfare to disrupt and destroy government institutions. Once they lose a few more elections and their internal influence wanes, look for them to resort to their "Second Amendment" remedies. Mark my words...it's coming.  

  •  'extracting from a shrinking class of makers' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    They are too self-unaware to see that this is BY DESIGN.  Wealth concentrating into a smaller set of hands.  What happens if there are only a few 'makers'?  

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

    by RichM on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:08:37 AM PDT

  •  Create some damn jobs, Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    and more of us will be Makers.

    Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

    by Omir the Storyteller on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:16:23 AM PDT

  •  50th anniversary of The Cloward–Piven strategy! (0+ / 0-)

    Prophecy fulfilled!!!

    The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:19:36 AM PDT

  •  I know, I'm a horrible person... (0+ / 0-)

    But I wonder if this is a viable strategy...

    1. Troll the teabaggers until they actually do become really violent.

    2. Use their violence to create a backlash movement strong enough to break the back of the Tea Party movement for good.

  •  Let's see: denial, anger, bargaining… (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PlinytheWelder

    if the righties are now experiencing depression, then I guess the next step is acceptance!

    If you think about it, the "5 stages of grief" model tracks the conservative response to Mitt Rmoney's defeat almost perfectly:

    Denial: From the "unskewers", to Karl Rove on election night, to a shell-shocked Romney conceding the race.

    Anger: Dammit, we nominated the wrong guy! If only we had run a true conservative!*

    Bargaining: We don't need no stinking presidency—we can get what we want with gerrymandering, filibusters, and hostage taking.

    Depression: Aw crap, the debt default threat didn't work. The public hated our government shutdown. That's it: the country is obviously going Communist. Waaah!

    Acceptance: This chapter is still to be written. Won't it be interesting how it plays out? One possible indicator is the movement among "establishment" Republicans to wrest control back from the Tea Party so they can make deals with Democrats to actually govern the country.

    *Parenthetical observation from George Packer's great book The Unwinding: the Republicans nominated Romney for the same reason the Democrats nominated John Kerry: not because they liked him, but because they thought other people would like him.

    What is valued is practiced. What is not valued is not practiced. -- Plato

    by RobLewis on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:26:16 AM PDT

  •  The teabaggers have cried "communist" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKDAWUSS, Jay C, Berkeley Fred

    so many times that normal people tune them out now.

    The problem with political jokes is they get elected.

    by shoeless on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:27:06 AM PDT

  •  Preppers & Looters: new FPS game for PS4 (0+ / 0-)
    Thus, the final appeal to violence—because if democracy fails them, then what is left? The question will be whether that violence will remain a fantasy as they politically disengage, or whether they'll begin to act on it.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:29:22 AM PDT

  •  The Brietbart Commenter Is Right!! (0+ / 0-)

    The Brietbart commenter is absolutely correct.

    But you, you wily Liberal you, misquoted the comment. Here is the original:

    no amount of economic or cultural chaos and disaster will ever incite those people to turn on their conservative masters. However, considering our attempt to destroy Obamacare by destroying the American economy...should Virginia choose to drink the kool-aid too...and elect Cuccinelli ...it will all but convince me that the country has totally surrendered to a communist future....and there won't be any turning the tide in 2014....

    There are simply too many takers extracting from a shrinking middle-class  in this country. The intricate web of tax-cutting for the rich takers and de-regulation has imprisoned the economy....guaranteeing that the timothy mcveigh blueprint will succeed.

    After that...it could be anarchy....insurrection...or revolution.....who knows?

    Once your typos are fixed the message is clear and true.

    A Southerner in Yankeeland

    To save your life and our country, read "Pity The Billionaire" by Thomas Frank, and "Winner-Take-All-Politics" by Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson. Then read more books.

    by A Southerner in Yankeeland on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:33:15 AM PDT

  •  Democracy from the end of a gun; (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Matt Z

    because it worked so well in Iraq.

    Our government is not yet small enough to drown in a bathtub. That doesn't mean it can't be waterboarded.

    by furrfu on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:56:13 AM PDT

  •  Sadly, this entire affair has been disgusting. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA, JGibson

    For a "patriotic" bunch of folks, they sure display their mean-spirited bully tactics well. Aren't these the flag wavers listening to the inocuous song "Proud to be an American" and screaming for others to "blindly support their CIC?

    Yet, these last years have demonstrated how much their platform and behavior has lacked class, maturity and erudition.  Instead, they truly want America to suffer so that they can keep everything concentrated in the hands of the few.

    Haven't there been plenty of examples showing what America would be like in the hands of the GOP?  Their drive to sabotage the efforts of the POTUS and his Administration have not only crippled the American society, but also introduced a low-brow aura to what the world perceives an American to be.

    I know the teabaggers and their handlers are sleeping soundly, knowing how many lives will be lost without help for better healthcare.  Their wrongdoing demonstrates an evil for the ages.

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

    by politicalceci on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 09:59:49 AM PDT

  •  Rank and file tea baggers are being (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA, JGibson

    led down the garden path by the Christian dominion theology churches. These churches are the equivalent of the Muslim taliban.

    These are the people you hear talk very loudly about Muslims wanting to introduce sharia law into society. In fact it is the Christian dominionists who want to introduce Judeo-Christian biblical law not just into society but to supplant the constitution with biblical law as the law of the land in the US.

    This is very troubling. Halakha http://en.wikipedia.org/... is the Judaic equivalent of sharia law. It has been developed over 2 thousand years of rabbinic study of the Torah and then expounded in the Mishnah http://en.wikipedia.org/... and the Talmud. http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    The Christian dominionists however, reject Halakha. Why? Because by rejecting Halakha they can interpret the Judeo-Christian canonical texts as they see fit to push their theocracy on a compliant society. The rank and file tea baggers don't know they are being used by cult leaders like Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin. To the rank and file tea baggers it's about getting rid of the socialist black president so they can go about running the country the way it should be run for the benefit of white people. All the rhetoric about pure capitalism and the invisible hand of free markets is a con. They want the benefits of government for white folks just like it was in the antebellum south. Now into this toxic brew comes the Christian dominionists. I fear we are moving into a dystopia ruled by sadistic corporatists using the Christian dominionists and their tea bagger army to keep everyone in line and stifle democracy.

    Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering. If you like hypocrite Obama, you'll love hypocrite Hillary.

    by harris stein on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:01:38 AM PDT

  •  After all, progress starts in the red states! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PlinytheWelder, a2nite, JerryNA

    Nothing proves the teabagger's argument better than looking at the Southern states!  They elect the most conservatives and so they're run under the most conservative polices, and they lead the country in innovations in science, business, and, well, just practically everything!  The red states stand a model for the superiority of conservative pricip...

    ...wait, hold on a second, I'm being told they don't.   You mean they actually have a track record worse than the rest of the country?  In every possible way?

    Well, shit.  I thought I was onto something there.  :(  Sorry, tea baggers, I tried to help!

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:09:04 AM PDT

  •  It's not (0+ / 0-)

    what the dead ender white tea party types do, it's what their 1% overlords decide to do, and they could turn definitively against the democracy. Remember, the right controls the food, the guns and the energy business in this country; that's not insignificant. If you wanted to tank things into some desperate situation where disorder reigned and the bonds of society broke,  a relatively small cabal of koch types could do it. Previously, I felt they never would, now not so sure, especially because I can't see them ever sharing with the emerging non white majority, which has this notion of equity and the "American Dream" stuck in their heads. Remember, they can ride out the storm anywhere, then reshape the ashes into a more accommodating political order.

  •  Here's a good example of an R, WI stylee, jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    taking, making, breaking - infringing plans. Among many other "pinch points" in their idealogical thinking. This relevance has to do with a new health insurance plan rollout called the ACA, specifically, in the state aforementiond:

    Thanks to a diary by 'Jake formerly of the LP'...

    The Wisconsin insurance office requires all navigators to go through 16 hours of training, pass a written test and background check, submit to fingerprinting and pay fees. And the groups they work for must register with the state and secure liability coverage for navigator misconduct.
    It is not funny anymore. Not when I realize they, GOP, are the very thing they rile against. They create more laws & bullshit policies that jump in our bedrooms, clinics, schools... all to make the world more scared, violent & authoritarian.. all the while racking up the debt. Whose the spenders now?

    Thus, they do not believe in a Democracy or in that case, teh United States of America. They believe something that is entirely different & maybe ancient.

  •  my teabagger sister posted a facebook link (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    crankypatriot, a2nite, JerryNA, tarminian

    which said we will win at the ballot box or with these.

    the side by side pictures were a voting booth on the left and bullets on the right.

    I commented, "who are you going to kill?"  Is she threatening to kill over half of her relatives?

    •  It is bravado and grandstanding for now... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, JerryNA

      In some other forums I have challenged right wingers as to the details of their plans when they invoke "2nd amendment solutions".  Never a response that says "yes, I will shoot people". For now, it is all braggadocio and bluster.  They have no idea what real violence and bloodshed looks like.  But at what point do they act out their violent fantasies?

    •  I'd Post A Question (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JerryNA

      "Which of these would you prefer to be wearing the first time you face someone else with a gun?" -- followed by pics of various brands of adult diapers.

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:52:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Those don't even look like him! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    But it pisses me off anyway.

    You know, they keep telling us the pool of workers is shrinking but they won't support jobs bills or stop shipping jobs overseas! OR bringing in immigrants who want to do jobs and pay taxes. Why shut down the spigot? Why not repair the pipe? That or cut off grandma's meds and let her forage in the bins for dinner.

    You're gonna need a bigger boat.

    by Debby on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:23:36 AM PDT

  •  Interesting conservative view.... (0+ / 0-)

    "Democracy" (which, really, we DON'T have and never did) doesn't work the way THEY want it to work, then it's time to pull out the guns.  If government doesn't blow up the military (a guns-oriented organization) and shred the social safety net (a peaceful movement, no guns involved), then it's communist (a group that stood gunmen on every wall and border for 80 years to keep people IN).

    So "God, guns, and guts make America free", and putting them down destroys it.  Putting them down lets the government pick them up and put THEM down.

    SOOO glad I'm not a conservative; I think my head would explode.

  •  I don't think we will see a widespread revolt, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    but a few random, violent nutjobs who are incited by the rhetoric of people like Larry Klayman and Alex Jones could cause a lot of chaos and panic, like the Boston Marathon bombers did.

    •  WSJ (0+ / 0-)

      There was a paper put out by some Russian guy that suggested that the US would indeed have a civil war and emerge as a country with 4 different states or zones. This was published by the WSJ a couple of years back.

  •  Rise of the Ann Coulter para-military squads (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA, JGibson

    As soon as Obama won in 2008, right wingers began talking about  an "2nd amendment".  Contrast this of course with the 2000 defeat of Al Gore when liberals talked about getting bigger turnouts as the solution (also of course blaming Nader).

    But of course, right wingers have accepted mass violence as a legitimate outlet/solution to them losing elections.  Violence as legitimate form of action for right wingers went underground after the reaction to the OKC bombing.  A common belief among white supremacists and the more hard core wingers is that a special act of violence can incite revolutionary/civil war.  McVeigh did his murdering with Waco in mind.

    But since Bush the idea of political violence has slowly started gaining traction and come out from dark caves among right wingers.  Could we see the rise of paramilitaries who instead of playing war games in the woods, come and actually become violent?  Don't know.

  •  If anything is going to come to a violent end, ... (0+ / 0-)

    it won't be democracy, it will be the Tea Party.


    Take me somewhere nice. Reality doesn't play fair. - 16382

    by glb3 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:33:26 AM PDT

  •  Do these stupid assholes not realize (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, JerryNA

    the billions we taxpayers give to multi million and billion dollar corporations.  Takers and makers my ass.  I wish we actually had a media that pointed this out once in a while.

    I'm getting angrier and angrier at the bs that has passed as fact for decades now.  I've said it before, we need to destroy the main stream media in it's present form.  They're destroying us with the lies passed along as fact.

    The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

    by AnnieR on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:34:47 AM PDT

  •  Advice For When It Hits The Fan (0+ / 0-)

    This guy knows just what to do when the radio anounces that the dollar is being dumped en maas -- head for survuval camp one step ahead of the hurricaness, chemical warefare, and agents of the week government trying to condiscate your guns. Don't be usless -- get your food supplies literally bulletproof!

    On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

    by stevemb on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:48:54 AM PDT

  •  Flight of failed logic (0+ / 0-)

    We'll see how the VA gov race goes, but as of the comment about makers and takers...

    If the takers are or become the majority, how ever does the author think that a minority would win a revolution against the majority?

    There's no way that could occur with democracy intact, and if democracy is left by the wayside, what is it that they intent on replacing it with?

    Nothing savory, I'm sure.

    What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

    by equern on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 10:51:17 AM PDT

  •  Para military? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JerryNA

    Don't know about you guys, but mercenary armies seem to be real. Iceland hired a mercenary army to protect themselves a few years back during the banking crisis. These guys have serious hardware and are basically manned by guys who used to work in our armed forces. There was a crew here in the US that change their name. Blackrock I think their name was, though I can't remember what they are called now.

  •  Exactly who are the takers? (0+ / 0-)

    When people work their tails off for their minimum wages so their corporate masters can pocket billions, who is the taker in this scenario? This Breitbart comment is infuriating.

  •  If only takers were better at it... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smileycreek

    Since they seem to barely be surviving for all the taking their doing.  $134 in food stamps is a real victory for all those thieving thieves!

    Honestly though, I wish conservatives would stop trying to make the taker/maker argument since it falls apart the second you look at it.  It makes for good hay but all that hay can't keep the horses fed when it comes time to vote especially as the demographics keep slipping away from them.

  •  It's been quite a while since I realized that not (0+ / 0-)

    only would I likely not be horrified by the physical destruction of insurrectionist right wing domestic enemies of American Democracy, but that I would applaud such a cleansing of fascists from the body politic. Furthermore, I would do what I could to assist the lawful forces of American Democracy, even at risk of my personal safety should it come to that.

    "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens," -Friedrich Schiller "Against Stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain"

    by pengiep on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:11:41 PM PDT

  •  Takers vs Makers: (0+ / 0-)

    Yeah, corporate welfare queens view themselves as makers, alright.

    Problem is, these "makers" will force us and our families to suffer for their delusional belief in themselves.

    Leon Festinger, where are you when we need you?!

    His 1957 theory of cognitive dissonance proposed that people lie to themselves — and others — to uphold beliefs that fly in the face of reality. Teabaggers personified!

  •  who are these "makers"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smileycreek

    are they the job creators? are they investors? or are they actual workers?

    and since so many jobs have been exported, perhaps many of them aren't even living in the u.s.

  •  It is all in the definitions (0+ / 0-)

    For the TPer's, they must mean that the lower class are taking from the miniscule upper class "makers".

    It isn't the upper class that does the making, folks.  As usual, they have everything backward.

    The rich take from the working makers and then insure that there is almost no way to reach their level through taxes etc. But it seems to me that they are perhaps correct.  There is a revolution brewing.  They are just betting on the wrong side. People are getting mighty tired of their BS.

    And they seem to be doing a good job spreading anarchy. But then, they figure that it isn't Fascism if they do it.  Folks, they are there, in those same shoes, about ready to repeat history because they haven't learned from it or apparently, anything else.

    •  It isn't anarchy the TPers want (0+ / 0-)

      If only the these free market zealots really were anarchist.

      Real anarchists would replace the state with federations of egalitarian participatory communities which socialize property used in the means of production.

      Anarchism, a socioeconomic theory whose name was first coined by Proudhon in 1840, seeks to abolish all forms of unjust authority, and is opposed to all oppression brought about through hierarchical power relations.

      It is thus in favor of women's equality, since patriarchy is hierarchy.

      It supports worker's rights more than any other movement, since it would eliminate workplace hierarchical dominance from the ruling, owning class, and allow workers to freely associate without coercion, with democratic self-management of the collectivized work environment.

      It is against racism, since racism is hierarchy of one race over others.

      It would not allow theocratic interference in individual's choices, since curtailing abortion rights or imposing bigotry and homophobia is using church authority to create hierarchical relationships over others.
      It would provide health care to every citizen, since equality in the workplace, allowing workers to share equally in the fruits of their labor, also extends to economic equality in consumption of resources. The class hierarchy where wealthier citizens' needs are met, while others go without, is economic exploitation by the ruling class, and economic hegemony over the poor and working class.

      Since most people are workers, and want to be productive, then social needs like health care should be available to all. People can't be productive if they, or their loved ones, are sick.

      And it would also provide retirement pensions, and rights to housing, for all the same reasons. Working people (the 99%) can produce enough to take care of the working community, when economic equality becomes a social agreement.

      Oh, if only the Tea Partiers were anarchists.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:06:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  GOP/TEA Revolution needed (0+ / 0-)

    Blame the poor is the GOP and TEA number one talking point. Does anyone really think they will stop their nonsensical  attacks on the  unfortunate among us. It is the rich white zealot Christian male dominated party and intends to remain that way.It is the party of an unrepentant Scrooge. A revolution is needed to bring the GOP back to decency and compassion.

  •  derogatory headlines (0+ / 0-)

    Why must this author resort to derogatory name calling and ad hominum attacks.  These do not help your argument and tell me that you are intolerant of others and differing viewpoints.  GROW UP.

    I support many of the Daily Kos' issues, but I am getting tired of the NAME CALLING.

  •  The TP isn't original (0+ / 0-)

    In 1787, while our first 13 states adopted their new constitution, Alexander Tyler who was a Scottish History Professor at the University of Edinburgh, said this about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2000 years earlier:
    “A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.  A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.  From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse doe to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
      That is why John Adams and others were keen to create a republic rather than a democracy, but human nature asserted itself again:
     “The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
    So these are the original statements about takers v makers, or the 47%.  Those thoughts do not originate with the Tea Party or modern conservatives or modern republicans.  

  •  violence (0+ / 0-)

    Yes, there will be bloodshed. It's just a matter of time and a question of how much, where and when. There will probably be at least one shooting at the polls next year, if not before. (They already bring their guns as it is.)

    It's harsh and sad I know, but we have to face facts. The Tea Party is a racist fascist terrorist organization whose goal is the overthrow of the federal government. They are well armed and eager to strike. With their highly disproportionate representation in Congress, they are literally the most dangerous group in the world today. We have to see this threat for what it is and take it seriously.

    There will be shootings. There's not much we can really do to stop that at this rate. I just hope there aren't bombings too, but that should be easier to prevent.

    I think the Tea Party's fantasy of a full-scale insurrection is just that- a fantasy. The more violent things get the lower their approval rating and membership will be, especially when people start to see that it's not just splinter groups or isolated individuals doing the shooting.

    Still, this could get very ugly very fast, and it's likely things will get worse before they get better. Unfortunately, even cracking down on the Tea Party before they tip their hand would just backfire politically.

    edwardlcote.blogspot.com

    by Edward L Cote on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 01:00:14 AM PDT

  •  Nice try, "veteran Virginia pollster"... (0+ / 0-)

    ...but HuffPost Pollster's poll tracking shows that McAuliffe has had a comfortable lead except for spring this year.

    McAuliffe has a 7.3 percentage point lead, even with the Washington Post's polls disabled (and PPP's too for good measure). That said, both he and Cuccinelli seem to be trending downward, so don't kick back and relax, Virginians!

  •  revolution (0+ / 0-)

    i live in a highly conservative area of tx. and we have not only the various tea party people, but also patriot group people.  many of these people are also preppies and are heavily armed.  they do quite a bit of fuming and talking about revolution.  for the most part, they are just ignorant blowhards.  

  •  Breitbart revision: (0+ / 0-)

    There are simply too many "takers" being created by an increasingly greedy group of "makers."  The intricate web of tax cuts and financial deregulation has guaranteed...that the disastrous blueprints of Gramm-Leach, Laffer and Norquist will be implemented.

  •  BEHOLD the BIG LIES (0+ / 0-)

    Each day I become more convinced of a few truths:
    1 - Republicans and Tea Party Politicians are Masters of the Big Lie.
    2 - No matter what the circumstances, they will parrot the "tax and spend" Mantra until they're blue in the face.
    3 - Truth is somewhere opposite anything they say.

    In the NYC Mayoral race, Joe Lhota told the audience of their last debate, that Bill DeBlasio was going to ratchet up taxes and spend more money.  It didn't matter that LhotaCrap's opponent is running on a platform that says it will reduce taxes - except to those making a Lhota money - and rein in spending.

    So this business of Takers and Makers is simply another item from the Big Lie bakers!

    Full Disclosure:  I don't live in NYC, but in New Joisey.

    There is no right way to do the wrong thing!

    by HashHoward on Thu Oct 31, 2013 at 07:27:32 AM PDT

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