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Wasting time in Brooklyn.
At the request of Diane in NoVa, I am going to expand a bit on comments I made in the pundit roundup. For brevity, I'll repost the two comments:
ObamaCare...still not seeing what i need to see. (5+ / 0-)
The botched rollout continues, and I'll keep saying so.

Yesterday the president was in Dallas talking to...some folks. Im really angry at the white house political staff. The campaign for ObamaCare has to be as good if not better than the campaign for Obama.

We chose a system of private insurance that is affordable. In order for that to work youngish working class uninsured by the milions. People from 26 to 40. Yet I'm not seeing the kind of sophisticated marketing campaign targeting those people. Not even here in New York where we have a state exchange.

Were fucking this up. We need numbers in the millions in that target group by next Summer or were going to see big ass premium increases for the 80% who have a lot of new benefits. The first move has to be bringing in the HEALTHY uninsured, not the sick.

This is, now and forever, Democratic Party law. Somebody in that white house needs to get on the fucking ball.

Yo.

by brooklynbadboy on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:03:53 AM EST

The website problems will be fixed, I'm confident. What I'm not confident of is this administration's, and the Washington Democrats' generally, ability to do the critical thing that is going to make this a success. Now, for all you single payer lovers like me, yes..yes..this is exactly why this a less desirable way of doing this. Set that aside because this is the law we have. In order for it to 'work' then people who do not now have insurance have to be brought in.

Assume we've gotten all we're going to get from people under 26 whose parents already have insurance. Whats left out there is young people not on such joints, but who have enough money to not qualify for Medicaid. That means working class people who have a full time job, but don't get health benefits at work because its too expensive and they're healthy enough to put it off. That's our group. It also happens to be a big chunk of our base.

Without that group, we've got big problems because of the way private insurance works. There are lots of new benefits and entitlements under this law on people who already have plans. Their costs are going to go up substantially if we don't mitigate that by bringing in our target group. Which, as I said, happens to be our base.

So, what is the White House doing about that? This crap:

In other words, (5+ / 0-)

The president was just here in Brooklyn. He spoke at a high school and left. What a fucking waste. That event SHOULD have been at Barclays and it should have been exclusively for folks who don't have health insurance. And then you have a signup campaign just afterwards. Boom...get yourself 40000. Then on to the next venue in Queens. Then on to Philly. Cleveland. So on and so forth. Especially in the districts we are trying to win next year.

Yo.

by brooklynbadboy on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:11:20 AM EST

Unacceptable.

This White House has to step up and start treating this like 2012 and get on the ball. The President, or important surrogates, should be out signing up the crowds by the bushel, not wasting time like yesterday in Dallas thanking volunteers or here in Brooklyn doing throwaway events that don't move that needle.

We need to stop caring about how ObamaCare is doing in the polls. Support for ObamaCare isn't the same thing as SIGNUPS. ObamaCare is the law. So the polls about it don't mean shit right now. What matters is that people, especially OUR PEOPLE, are getting the benefits of it. That is all that matters politically. That is how we fulfill kos's maxim that if our folks turn out, we win big. We have to deliver for our people and then they'll turn out to defend what we've given them. And on that key fundamental, the ObamaCare Campaign is failing according to Sebelius:

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius today acknowledged that long-awaited enrollment figures for the rocky first month of Obamacare will be “very low.”

She said the initial batch of enrollment figures being released next week cover “the first month of enrollment” and will include both Medicaid and health plan numbers in the new insurance exchanges.

Umm, we need 7 million over the next year. A little better than half a million a month. And those can't be Medicaid folks. It has to be exchange people.

Then there is this stupidity:

But they don’t want the public to think that’s all they’re focused on — or even that it’s the overriding priority. The message has filtered down from the top ranks in the West Wing that the president’s aides are expected to focus not just on health care but on the myriad other issues on Obama’s agenda.
No. Just get ObamaCare right before the next election. That is all. Its got his name on it. The president's NAME people. All Democrats have their names on it. If I were working in the White House political staff if anybody wasn't working on ObamaCare politics 24/7, I'd want to slap some sense into them.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (234+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, flatford39, aoeu, River Rover, ferg, cordgrass, a2nite, Dartagnan, TracieLynn, caldera, cosette, DRo, tardis10, ctsteve, zerelda, bobswern, Sylv, taffers, Liberal and Loving It, mkor7, Tribecastan, jasan, pat bunny, Dillonfence, geebeebee, greycat, JamieG from Md, geordie, puakev, surfbird007, CS11, Norm in Chicago, Betty Pinson, Ian Reifowitz, quill, Egalitare, johanus, Tackle, Tross, wordwraith, Dem Beans, The Hindsight Times, Brooke In Seattle, drdana, Jim P, gizmo59, basquebob, flowerfarmer, Shockwave, Phoebe Loosinhouse, Kickemout, Floande, Proud Mom and Grandma, briefer, dRefractor, Pat K California, Chitown Kev, Forward is D not R, delphine, accumbens, triv33, roses, Iberian, VPofKarma, voteearly, zephyr108, BadKitties, chrississippi, ichibon, bear83, dotsright, Oh Mary Oh, suejazz, gooderservice, annecros, poligirl, annominous, exreaganite, rb608, tb mare, Diana in NoVa, skepticalcitizen, annrose, boatjones, Emmet, RandomNonviolence, shanikka, Alfred E Newman, Game Theory, fb, YucatanMan, Hayate Yagami, Mother Mags, SneakySnu, citisven, AaronInSanDiego, implicate order, Korkenzieher, tidalwave1, Debby, camlbacker, remembrance, Superskepticalman, archer070, Ian S, Buckeye Nut Schell, Sucker Politics, Capt Crunch, oofer, Joieau, Anima, DeminNewJ, bleeding blue, banjolele, fugwb, Jbearlaw, Oaktown Girl, claude, blackjackal, beth meacham, Habitat Vic, favoriteveggie, AoT, Assaf, Tunk, ScottTx, jadt65, slinkerwink, Greasy Grant, tombstone, lao hong han, old wobbly, Kombema, Alden, LamontCranston, peacestpete, leeleedee, Militarytracy, Glen The Plumber, greengemini, rebereads, ChemBob, chira2, anodnhajo, RainyDay, alkalinesky, DeadHead, petulans, CupofTea, Susipsych, BachFan, cpresley, LaFeminista, Alice Olson, 3goldens, buckstop, sprogga, CT Hank, janatallow, BlueJessamine, jbou, i dunno, Jim in Chicago, catullus, nailbender, ems97206, chrismorgan, miracle11, SheilaKinBrooklyn, Busted Flat in Baton Rouge, Rick Aucoin, UtahLibrul, Jeff Y, Pam from Calif, Willa Rogers, profh, lastman, renbear, Lahdee, gmats, political junquie, ArthurPoet, gof, HelpMeUnderstand, bfitzinAR, bronte17, zaka1, solesse413, El Zmuenga, tomephil, Meteor Blades, kenwards, NearlyNormal, dradams, Cliss, IndieGuy, MidwestTreeHugger, denise b, Involuntary Exile, devis1, Homer J, bmaples, filby, Keone Michaels, LeftistSkeptic, jdld, WisePiper, Johnny Q, JVolvo, democracy inaction, Jazzenterprises, RunawayRose, BlueDragon, scyellowdogdem, psychodrew, doinaheckuvanutjob, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, JosephK74, Catskill Julie, RickD, HCKAD, leonard145b, quagmiremonkey, commonscribe, chantedor, Anne was here, gongee, aitchdee, melo, chimene, OrganicChemist, RepubliCult, TampaCPA, jbsoul
  •  Without Plouffe and Axelrod (72+ / 0-)

    ... can this president do anything right?  I listened to John Heilemann last night on Larry O'Donnell's show recount a story in his latest book about how Obama had a meltdown during debate prep for his second debate in 2012.  His brain wasn't wired the way it takes to communicate in debates, he said, according to the new "Game Change" book.  His staff had to perform an intervention (Heilemann's word, reporting his sources) to get him to snap out of it and get serious.

    The story explained a lot.  Obama's great at reading a speech, but get him out of that mode in trying to explain things to ordinary folks and he often seems out of his depth.  He doesn't have Bill Clinton's natural communication ability.  And he doesn't seem to know how to put a staff together in the White House to make up for that shortcoming.  The Obamacare rollout and the messaging around it are perhaps the clearest illustration of this.

    You have to wonder how his brain wiring has affected his negotiating style with Republicans, among other things.  He needs a lot of help on this stuff, and he often doesn't seem to know how to find it.

    We have always been at war with al Qaeda.

    by Dallasdoc on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:18:20 AM PST

    •  Come on. (80+ / 0-)

      The guy is a preternaturally gifted leader and politician. He doesn't always win on every issue, and he has political enemies 100% devoted to destroying his administration on a daily basis. He's doing well as president, despite the inevitable mistakes and missed opportunities. And he's no puppet of his advisers.

      •  Preternaturally gifted leader and politician? (40+ / 0-)

        Could you give some examples of that?
        I think that was an expectation of Obama  that was definitely not lived up to. I think he's soso as a politician and about the same as a leader.  Obamacare is a good example of that---altho it has his name on it, he had no definite plan for it when he came in (or ever) and its the product of sausage making politics, not a well thought out plan from the start (I'm also a single payer fan)
        Clinton was a get out there and press-the-flesh and kiss babies type of guy. He loved it and was good at it.  Obama is an ivory towered kind of guy. He really is a speechifier, not a debater.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:39:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It seemed 5 years ago that he (11+ / 0-)

          had multitudes of followers, but that isn't the same thing as being an actual leader.

          •  Lets see now (25+ / 0-)

            I think a preternaturally gifted leader and politiciain would have a long record of causes he's assumed and fought with all his heart to put across until theyre real. He puts his ideas across through vigorous debate, whenever possible and then transforms them into reality. He keeps at it.
            Can anyone give and example where Obama did this? (other than his elections)
            (Hint: I won't be taking High SPeed trains to the market this year either)

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:48:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  well (8+ / 0-)

              he closed Guantanamo i think :(

            •  He wants everyone to play nice and compromise (40+ / 0-)

              as per his Dallas speech yesterday:

              And historically, those things have been struggles, but at least in most of my lifetime, you had both Democrats and Republicans who would affirm those values even if they had differences in tactics or different particular political programs.  That’s not what we have right now.  And the result is not just gridlock, but it's actually a little more destructive than that.

              I mean, the shutdown cost this country money.  It was bad for business.  It was bad for families.  And yet, it still happened.  Default would have been worse -- could have triggered a financial crisis worse than the one we had in 2008.  And yet, that was a real possibility.

              The only way that we can realign our politics so that it matches up with the decency and goodness of the American people is if elections matter, and we're able to both deliver a message and organize ourselves so that folks who aren't acting responsibly pay a consequence, and that we're lifting up and rewarding candidates who are serious about the challenges this country faces and are willing to work together in a spirit that is constructive in order to deliver for the American people.

              So that’s what 2012 was about, and that’s what 2014 was about, and I suspect that’s what 2016 is going to be about.  And I have to say that I'm a proud Democrat and am committed to the values that the Democratic Party represents, but I'm also interested in getting the Republican Party back in a functioning state.  Because this country has two parties, and we need both of them operating in a way that allows us to move forward.

              He called the likely GOP frontrunner for 2016 to congratulate him on his re-election.  This president keeps at it.  The things he keeps at (e.g. TPP and the "Grand Bargain") aren't necessarily things that many of us here actually want.

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:16:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  He called out Cruz in that speech, (12+ / 0-)

                oh selective editor, and he called MacAuliffe also, and Biden called the wrong Marty Walsh.  He'd have called whomever won.   Christie will probably win the New Hampshire primary, but that's it.

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:26:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't see Cruz mentioned by name in speech (12+ / 0-)

                  Please show me where he was mentioned.  The only mention of GOP senators I saw by name came here:

                  So on issues like immigration reform, where we know we've got a bipartisan consensus and the majority of the people support it and we've already passed it through the Senate, Michael Bennet worked with folks like Marco Rubio and John McCain and Jeff Flake -- Republicans who recognize we've got a broken system and we need to fix it.  
                  A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.  A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.  As to whether Christie will retain his likely front-runner status after Goopers actually start voting is a total unknown at present, and it's utterly beside the point.

                  Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

                  by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:38:29 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "some politicans down here in texas" (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sviscusi, buffie, jqb, Phoenix Woman

                    that confused you?  I said he called him out, not that he called him out by name.  (I'm sure Rubio in particular would prefer Obama had left his name out of it.)

                    even if the phone cal were unusual, i have no idea what significance it has.  Obama and Christie are apparently personally friendly - CC passes the "have a beer with" test and then some.  Obama's gonna be supporting Hillary.  Perhaps he's using the Christie election as a wedge between the establishment and insurgent groups in the Republican party.  Perhaps it's just courtesy.  I don't know that boldfacing the word 'is' makes it more true, in any event, nor do I see what significance this has in the broader context of the diary's argument.  And the word "retain" does not mean what you think it means, though i agree whatever it is is beside the point.  

                    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                    by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:50:22 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Is a map necessary here? (8+ / 0-)
                      i have no idea what significance it has.
                      The comment you're responding to just laid out a good argument:
                      A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.   A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.
                      Obama is allegedly a Democrat. Chris Christie calls himself a Republican. He might even be the Democrats' opponent in 2016.  To say that is unusual is the significance.

                      Has it become impossible to dial back the deliberately-obtuse around here, or is that all which remains of "defenses" of exactly this kind of dissonant fuckery? Because unless they're best pals, that call was stupid.

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:59:56 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  This is a diary about getting people signed up (4+ / 0-)

                        for Obamacare.  Comments like "allegedly a Democrat" make it sound like Obama's trying to sabotage his own law's implementation.  Maybe it was intentional.  I'd have liked a stronger run at Christie, of course, but that's a state party issue.  

                        I presume the comment about Christie being a front runner was meant to amplify the supposed venality here.

                        We can't call someone form the other party on the phone after an election . . . come on.  Plus, as i said, it could well serve to amplify the Republican's own civil war.  Whether it's a bad idea is something for debate; whether it's rare is not advanced by repeating it with boldface text.  There were something like 4 elections of significance that day, so I see no reason not to call the guy, especially if they have a decent working relationship.  

                        The point about not knowing the significance was not so much not understanding RFKlives's argument, as not engaging in the activity of drawing wild inferences about the "real" Obama based on his own subjective interpretation of selectively chosen data points.  Ultimately, neither of us know why Obama called Christie, and ultimately, it tells us very very little about ACA enrollment, 2016, or anything else.

                        I might prefer Christie as the nominee to some of the teabaggers, as I think he, like Romney, is the most beatable candidate yet capable of performing some of the basic functions of governing.  He's wrong on his opposition to infrastructure spending and anti-unionism, but he's not nihilistic, so that counts as progress I suppose.

                        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                        by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:11:31 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yes, it is (4+ / 0-)

                          it's also a diary about the "botched rollout". And frankly, that example (the phone call) is relevant because it kind of highlights the mentality driving the ship right now.

                          Unless they're actual friends, it was stupid--and yeah, it's nihilistic, in some ways--in terms of optics. And we both know that optics count in politics.

                          Comments like "allegedly a Democrat" make it sound like Obama's trying to sabotage his own law's implementation
                          .  

                          That's not even where I was headed (simply highlighting a bit of irony for each guy). But you know, that's an interesting point to wonder about if we've already had a silent coup. Which, for the record, I still think happened on some level either with the SCOTUS 2000 decision or when the PATRIOT Act was codified into law.

                          My bottom line? Nobody is this dense. Not just about that phone call, either.

                          This is, now and forever, Democratic Party law. Somebody in that white house needs to get on the fucking ball.
                          Like it or not--and I haven't much cared for bbb's take since the rollout, up to today--that's a correct statement. I said it somewhere else, he's finally boiled down to the essence on this thing. Time's a'wastin'.

                          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                          by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:31:53 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  if you see something nefarious in one phone call, (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Lying eyes, poco, jqb, PsychoSavannah

                            that's a comment on you, not on Obama.  Sensible people would see nothing amiss whatsoever about it, but the optics are such that it's probably bad for Christie in the primary.  Admittedly, it was 5 minutes when Obama wasn't working on ACA rollout, but let's also not forget part of the way the law works is that many of the exchanges are run by state governments, so it's one area where bipartisan cooperation is probably essential.  But i think the point holds that unless you know what was going through Obama's mind when he called Christie, there's nothing really to make of it.  Also, the all-or-nothing frame is a bit incorrect.  Can the White House be doing more?  Surely, but I know some people from the '08 and '12 campaigns who are working full time on getting people signed up -- i'm sure they would like more resources and support, but saying someone (who exactly) should get on the ball (and do what) is kind of empty.

                            Huge day in Virginia, though, if MacAuliffe is able to get Medicaid expansion through the House of Delegates.

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:33:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  . (6+ / 0-)
                            ne·far·i·ous (typically of an action or activity) wicked or criminal.
                            Right. Because I called that phone call wicked or criminal.

                            No. I called it STUPID.

                            Is it too much to ask that if you're going to debate people around here, that you at least learn to read and comprehend what you're responding to before you hit the "post" button?

                            Can the White House be doing more?  Surely
                            Then WHY AREN'T THEY?  You "know people". Ask them and then get back to us with a real reason.

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:47:27 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ok, so i should have used a different word, (4+ / 0-)

                            God almighty get off your high horse.

                            i understand that you think it's stupid -- i also think that you are engaging in nothing more than confirmation bias.  if it's "indicative" of something, it's indicative of what you've already predetermined "the political climate" to be.  Whether or not it's stupid, is really too soon to tell.  It could be stupid, it could be cynical, it most likely is nothing because only people giving a rat's ass are you and a few cats at redstate who decide they hate Christie for no good reason.

                            i don't know the inner circle, and i never claimed otherwise.  I'd doubt, however, if they're unaware of the issues, but I don't know how to help them do this particular job better.  Neither strategy nor voter contact was my main job.  The people I'm referring to, however, are those who are out there doing things.  Do you know people who could use help navigating the sign-up process?  Talk to them and get back to us.  

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:02:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Words matter. (0+ / 0-)

                            There's a freaking ocean of difference between wicked and stupid.

                            So many people here considered it to be "consorting with the enemy" when some Dems saw fit to support Justin Amash's bill to rein in the NSA by defunding it.

                            Same thing here, this call to Christie, by that definition. That's really not a difficult thing to understand.

                            Looked to me like you "knew some insiders" with this remark:

                            Can the White House be doing more?  Surely, but I know some people from the '08 and '12 campaigns who are working full time on getting people signed up --
                            but on reflection, that was a bad assumption--I know I worked to help get Mr. Obama elected, but that was way back in 2007, before I learned I was "a retard" and what-not. So my apologies there.

                            Now, having said that...

                            i'm sure they would like more resources and support

                            It's this President's legacy. GET THEM SOME MORE HELP.  

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 04:31:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You do realize ... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Phoenix Woman, Loge

                            ... you're fuming about phone calls and name calling, or more specifically, what you're choosing to read into phone calls and name calling.

                            Ah, memories of high school.  How they do come flooding back at times ...

                            But far be it for me to interrupt yet another thrilling installment of "The President Sucks" ...

                            Carry on.

                          •  Ug. I apologize for this comment ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Phoenix Woman

                            I'm not my best self today.

                          •  yeah, i understand your argument dude. (0+ / 0-)

                            but you know what it sounds the most like?  Something from Politico, all inside personality stuff about who sits next to whom in the cafeteria.  Game Change III?

                            I was referring to field organizers in that comment - if you really know how campaigns work, that's the vast majority of people from a campaign, and the job I was describing is a field organizing job.  (They were the people who handed you the clipboard and told you which doors to knock and then talked about how unpleasant you seem to be after you were gone.)   But anyway, i hear about projects like setting up store-front enrollment centers in poor cities and groups that are slowly but surely actively hiring. So the idea that nobody is doing anything just doesn't ring true to me, since I'm not getting all, or any of, my information from Politico.

                            And speaking of words mattering, if you can find when I called anyone an "R" on this site, please enlighten me.   And of course, the general thrust of the argument, 'nefarious' aside which is I admitted the wrong word before you piled on, is that is't not really "stupid" so much as stupid to even have an opinion about, or at least capable of more than one interpretation.  When I wasn't sure of something you were saying, i gave you the chance to clarify before freaking out, also.

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 11:37:34 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, again (0+ / 0-)

                            I didn't call you that. If you have been keeping up with Professional Staffers of This Administration (or at least "one in particular"), you might have known what the reference was.

                            And this? No idea what you're on about here:

                            Something from Politico, all inside personality stuff
                            Get the staff some freakin' help? harkens to Politico? Ummmm, oooooooooookkkkkkkay....

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 12:32:40 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no, worrying about the effects of a (0+ / 0-)

                            courtesy phone call harkens to politico.   That's the part you suggested I got wrong.

                            Yeah, I guess Rahm did say the R-word in anger once or a hundred times.  I had put it more or less out of my mind.  When you put it right after a block-quote of me, not Rahm, it's hard to see the immediate connection to the 2010 legislative session, and I believe the instance you are referring to was NOT an attack on all liberals, progressive or slacktivists who evidently can't be bothered to volunteer in 2008 or 2012, but rather those who were proposing the specific tactic of running negative ads against blue dogs attacking for not supporting the ACA.  Whether that would have been dumb, we'll never know, but that was an intramural debate among people all on the side of getting Obamacare passed.  His rhetoric was clearly inappropriate, but I don't think it makes him the devil, and otherwise have little interest in revisiting the degree to which he is or isn't.

                            And yes, a lot of people need help in this world, you especially.  Breathe . . .  

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 01:48:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I saw someone refer to this as hallucinatory (0+ / 0-)

                            ideology.

                          •  NOT till the WEB site is Fixed! Jeeze (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Loge

                            quit being the drama queen. Sending a hoard to a non working site won't do anything but raise the anxiety level of many.

                            Let me make it simple. Calling Christie infuriated the Tea bags. It ties him to the hated Obama and Democrats. Tea baggers vote. Teabaggers are the base. They run the state conventions.

                            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                            by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:32:42 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Christie's now trying for 2016 Prez slot (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        highacidity

                        Which means he has to run hard, hard right if he wants to have a prayer of surviving the GOP primaries.

                        Obama just gave Christie's primary opponents a big fat gift which will feature in their advertising all throughout the winter of 2015 and the spring of 2016.

                        Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

                        by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:05:28 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  do you think Obama's call endeared (0+ / 0-)

                        Christie to his teabag base?

                        Why do you think Christie hasn't been mentioning it.

                        Your comment  was what you think of the call.

                        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                        by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:19:51 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Perhaps it's genius on the president's part (3+ / 0-)

                      Perhaps he knows that a congrats from him is one more nail in Christie's presidential coffin where the extreme right is concerned.

                      The president is smart. The GOP is not. They HATE that.

                  •  Not to mention a slap in the face to Barbara (20+ / 0-)

                    Buono who never got Obama's or the national party's support.

                    A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.  A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.  As to whether Christie will retain his likely front-runner status after Goopers actually start voting is a total unknown at present, and it's utterly beside the point.
                  •  He thinks the neo-conservative movement has a (9+ / 0-)

                    legitimate place in politics and government. It's Obama's greatest flaw.

                    He has a kind of cruel pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps side that melds with the neo-cons.



                    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

                    - Louis Brandies

                    by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:30:18 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Regarding your Brandeis quote... (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RFK Lives, magnetics

                      Obama and his boo Christie would opt for the latter

                      I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

                      by zemongoose on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:12:00 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Don't Be Cruel... (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      jqb, doinaheckuvanutjob, highacidity

                      ...Elvis!

                      He has a kind of [cruel?] pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps side [that melds with the neo-cons.]
                      Doesn't "pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps" reflect his own journey in life? Perhaps you need to look more closely at what having an absentee father upbringing does to a young man. I had to deal with that, and, believe me, it was hellish at times trying to not project the thick skin and sense of purposelessness that can occur as a result.

                      And then, there's the effect on your kids...Takes a while to heal from this, and I still have to catch myself at times. And I'm 72 yo.

                      I do not see "cruel" in Obama's behavior, resolute, yes.

                      Just reflect on the Medicare Part D rollout, or the Medicare rollout itself. Neither were smooth.

                      Yonder stands your orphan with his gun Crying like a fire in the sun ~Bob Dylan

                      by paz3 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:45:17 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Hmm... that is an interesting possibility to (0+ / 0-)

                      contemplate. Then again, it breaks down upon examination, to be a stretch. Why? Name a Neocon who ever had to live by having a cruel pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps life? Part of being a Neocon is being fabulously wealthy or on wingnut wealthy welfare, they don't do bootstraps, but they want it for every body else-The Kristols, the Feiths, etc.

                      The Pres isn't a neocon nor is his foreign policy neocon. Yes, he does have a bootstraps element I don't like in policy sometimes, as in his education policies, but upon examination, your interesting postulation breaks down. I'm not sure that his embrace of the infrastructure of the GWB national security state has anything to do with the cruel Neocon's reasons. I think it's more a political calculation that's pragamatic, but morally wrong.

                      I think he just has an idealized conception of how the system should work, bipartisan Village Idiocy. I don't really know why, but I guess being a Senator could cause some of that.

                  •  Oh please. have you thought that Obama's (0+ / 0-)

                    well publicized greeting could be called the "kiss of death?"

                    It was a brilliant masterstroke.

                    I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                    by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:16:38 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  It's never a good sign when the President's own (0+ / 0-)

                Party suggests that he should go off to Dallas.

                Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

                by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:13:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Everybody wants people to place nice... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q, doinaheckuvanutjob, Key6119

                and get along. The difference is most of us make adjustments when we discover we are wasting our time trying to achieve that with certain individuals or groups. I thought President Obama was starting to get that with the shut-down.

                "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis D. Brandeis

                by VA6thDem on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:28:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  You may be confusing him with somone like St (13+ / 0-)

              Ralph, who had

              a long record of causes he's assumed and fought with all his heart to put across until they're real.
              Except that they never became real.  Unlike the ACA.

              This diary is a kvetch-fest, imo.  BBB, I assume you know that this "botched rollout" script was written 3 years ago by Republicans.  Why keep pushing it?

              Best.

              •  Ralph Nader? He has a shitload of things that (15+ / 0-)

                became real and saved lives and promoted progressive causes.

                He fought, and continues to fight, the corporatocracy and its oligarchical beneficiaries rather than kowtow to them.

                We should be so lucky to have such a president.

                Throughout his career, Nader has started or inspired a variety of nonprofit organizations, with most of which he has maintained close associations:

                Citizen Advocacy Center
                Citizens Utility Boards
                Congress Accountability Project
                Consumer Task Force For Automotive Issues
                Corporate Accountability Research Project
                Disability Rights Center
                Equal Justice Foundation
                Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
                Georgia Legal Watch
                National Citizens' Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
                National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
                Pension Rights Center
                PROD (truck safety)
                Retired Professionals Action Group
                The Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
                1969: Center for the Study of Responsive Law
                1970s: Public Interest Research Groups
                1970: Center for Auto Safety
                1970: Connecticut Citizen Action Group
                1971: Aviation Consumer Action Project
                1972: Clean Water Action Project
                1972: Center for Women's Policy Studies
                1973: Capitol Hill News Service
                1980: Multinational Monitor (magazine covering multinational corporations)
                1982: Trial Lawyers for Public Justice
                1982: Essential Information (encourage citizen activism and do investigative journalism)
                1983: Telecommunications Research and Action Center
                1983: National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
                1988: Taxpayer Assets Project, WFHW-LP
                1989: Princeton Project 55 (alumni public service)
                1993: Appleseed Foundation (local change)
                1994: Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees)
                1995: Center for Insurance Research
                1995: Consumer Project on Technology
                1997: Government Purchasing Project (encourage purchase of safe products)
                1998: Center for Justice & Democracy
                1998: Organization for Competitive Markets
                1998: American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition)
                1998: Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations)
                1999: Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
                2000: Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress)
                2001: Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups)
                2001: Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens)



                "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

                - Louis Brandies

                by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:39:45 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Early on a great man was Nader. (17+ / 0-)

                  Later, ego took hold and he helped deliver George W. to the WH in 2000.

                  Should have quit while he was way ahead.

                  I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                  by al23 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:59:58 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  St. Al Gore needed no help (6+ / 0-)

                    to lose the election, and give up the fight for a recount in FL.

                    don't always believe what you think

                    by claude on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:15:09 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Hid ego had nothing to do with 2000 (6+ / 0-)

                    That would have been the massive election fraud by the GOP. Purged voters rolls. The Brooks Brother Riot. Supreme Court selection. Nader played a minimal role in actually causing the problems. His ego was massive later on when he decided to screw over the Green Party. He lost the nomination so he went off on his own. That the real indicator of an ego.

                    •  I dunno,he could have supported Gore in that last (8+ / 0-)

                      week, or in Florida for Election Day, or any number of things that would've been better than choosing to stay in way after he'd made his points.  He wanted to hurt the Dems, and he did.

                      •  He wanted to provide a third party option (4+ / 0-)

                        because he lives in a democracy and he rightfully saw the Dems as a corrupt neoliberal party. There will always be third parties and it's the failure of the Dems to be far enough left that gets those parties their votes. The green party would have been destroyed if it endorsed Gore.

                        He wanted to hurt the Dems, and he did.
                        He wanted to get votes, as did the green party. I've yet to see an analysis that shows that a significant number of green voters would have voted Dem if they hadn't voted green. Not to mention the fact that nearly 250k democrats voted for Bush in Florida. Maybe the party should work on keeping people from drifting right before they complain about a third of those numbers voting for the wrong  candidate.
                        •  Actually he did want to hurt the Dems. (4+ / 0-)

                          Not a crime, but true and very very costly.

                          Many, including me, see this as a classic lesson in 3rd party irresponsibility.  (I was working for Ralph myself, btw.) Others don't.  But nobody's gonna their change minds on this.  

                          Best.

                          •  Do you have any links to him talking about that? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Johnny Q

                            I don't remember that being a theme in the campaign.

                          •  Gush/bore (5+ / 0-)

                            Nader's phrase for saying that GWB & Gore were the same.  That turned out to be a devastating mistake.

                          •  It was in his every action (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            al23, hooper

                            But he and his close advisors would admit it in unguarded moments, or when they felt they were among friends.

                            The sad thing is that he didn't even help the Greens all that much -- he absconded with the money he raised and didn't use it to help build up even the ASGP, under whose banner he ran.

                            From http://www.villagevoice.com/... --

                            Later I was introduced to Nader's closest adviser, his handsome, piercingly intelligent 30-year-old nephew, Tarek Milleron. Although Milleron argued that environmentalists and other activists would find fundraising easier under Bush, he acknowledged that a Bush presidency would be worse for poor and working-class people, for blacks, for most Americans. As Moore had, he claimed that Nader's campaign would encourage Web-based vote-swapping between progressives in safe and contested states. But when I suggested that Nader could gain substantial influence in a Democratic administration by focusing his campaign on the 40 safe states and encouraging his supporters elsewhere to vote Gore, Milleron leaned coolly toward me with extra steel in his voice and body. He did not disagree. He simply said, "We're not going to do that."

                            "Why not?" I said.

                            With just a flicker of smile, he answered, "Because we want to punish the Democrats, we want to hurt them, wound them."

                            There was a long silence and the conversation was over.

                            And:
                            Gary Sellers has a simpler way of putting it. Although Nader was the best man at Sellers's wedding, the two are no longer close. After extensive discussions with his old boss in late 1999, Sellers created Nader's Raiders for Gore in 2000. He believes Nader hated Gore, he told me, because "Gore wouldn't return his phone calls."

                            Ralph Nader exploited his reputation as a self-sacrificing idealist to pursue an utterly selfish goal. He claimed his purpose was to build the Green Party by drawing the 5 percent vote required for federal funding. But this was cover—a way of justifying his lust for revenge. Nader campaigned as the honest man who told the truth while lying about what he believed and wanted.

                            [...]

                            Nader's swing-state strategy was the crux of his anti-Gore game plan. If Nader had been truly committed to getting the Greens their 5 percent, he would have taken the safe-state route mapped out by many party advisers. In Stupid White Men, Michael Moore says he rejected Nader's invitation to join him in the battleground states as the election neared. Instead, Moore chose to work only "in those states where Ralph could get a lot of votes without being responsible for Bush winning the election." Places like New York, California, Massachusetts, and such liberal enclaves as Bush's own Austin, Texas, as Chait puts it, "offered the richest harvest of potential votes." This is what Reform Party candidate Patrick Buchanan did. Nader took precisely the opposite tack. He spent the last days of the campaign in swing states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and, especially, Florida, which according to Sellers he visited five times all told. Pennsylvania and Michigan went Democratic, but Nader forced Gore to expend time and resources on states he should have had in his pocket. And in Florida, though Nader's poll numbers dipped from 6 percent to 4 to his final 1.6, his 97,488 voters tipped the election.

                            Reached by telephone recently, Martin explained Nader's motives as "a neat blend of his desire to go where the cameras and media are and his desire to make the Democrats pay." But even in the Nader camp this was at best partially understood. Danny Goldberg reported in Tikkun that Nader told supporters he wouldn't campaign late in swing states. Sellers suspects that Moore didn't get it until the last moment. And Ronnie Dugger, the veteran journalist who nominated Nader at the Green convention, learned about Nader's battleground-barnstorming strategy long after the election. "Why hasn't Nader been building the Green Party for the last four years?" he asked me. "Nader was more interested in beating Gore than beating Bush. And Nader has said he will not follow a safe-state strategy in 2004 either."

                            Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

                            by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:26:55 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  When Nader Was Asked... (7+ / 0-)

                            ...who he would vote for, Bush or Gore if someone put a gun to his head without hesitation he replied:

                            "Bush."

                            He made no bones about the fact that he wanted to hurt Gore in that election and he has blood on his hands for the 8 years this country will be paying dearly for for a long, long time.

                            “I believe all Southern liberals come from the same starting point--race. Once you figure out they are lying to you about race, you start to question everything.” ― Molly Ivins

                            by RoIn on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:19:08 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I remember that. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            hooper, samddobermann

                            I'm surprised no-one else seems to. It disgusted me.

                            Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

                            by Matt Z on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:53:09 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So the 250k democrats who voted for Bush (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Johnny Q

                            were nothing?

                            The GOP has blood on it's hands. It stole that election and blaming Nader for that theft is foolish.

                          •  Nader has to be held accountable like everyone (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            al23, hooper

                            else. Gore blew the recount strategy, but the cards were stacked against him with the R Supremes and the R House if it came to them as it could if the procedures ended it up there. Nader, though, made it clear he likes the R's more than the D's. That's immoral.

                  •  Yes, Ralph was great for a long time. Then not. (0+ / 0-)

                    My point above was just the usual...Obama is President, and that's a whole different thing than Progressive Action Hero.  (Though If Johnson & Truman can make that list, he will too eventually.)

                  •  that's an assinine statement (4+ / 0-)

                    Ralph Nader has done more good for this country than Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Barrack Obama and his bad is far outweighed by the bad of the those three guys.

                    And for the 99th time Gore didn't fight for what was his in Florida and that is why he lost. You don't get to choose who you run against, you do choose how you run your campaign and if you are going to fight for every vote.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:52:34 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You left out hisunion busting of his own employees (0+ / 0-)

                  and his pride in taking Republican money for his campaign in 2000 and 2004.

                  He's also a millionaire from his stock investments. That wouldn't be so disturbing if he didn't behave like just another union buster. His excuses for rolling over his employees who just wanted a decent wage and reasonable benefits he could afford, claimed he could afford, is sickening.

            •  The examples are (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              samddobermann

              right in front of you.  You just don't want to see them.  Has he made mistakes?  Sure.  But I look at our country right now and then remember what it was like just before he took office.  Big change.  And when you take into account everything he has had on his plate, with a republican led house dedicated to obstructing everything he has tried to do, and a senate minority leader whose only goal was to get him out of office, I think he has done a decent job.  Add to that ending one war and winding down another, and repairing our relationship with the rest of the world (that is, until that NSA thing), and, again, a pretty decent job.  Oh, and killing bin laden, which no one had been able to do in over ten prior years.  It would be great if he could walk on water, but, to the best of my knowledge, only one person has mastered that, to date.
              Has his administration botched the roll-out of the ACA?  Definitely.  But he can't just drop everything else on his plate to focus solely on fixing it.  As far as enrollment numbers of younger, healthy, people into the ACA, it either will, or won't happen.

            •  Oh, come on (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              samddobermann

              Do we need to list what he's accomplished? IN SPITE OF the GOP's obstruction? Here are 50, just for starters:

              http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/...

              •  I can't believe he managed to tighten sanctions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q

                on Iran in the fave of GOP obstruction. They'd never let him do that.

              •  A good example of what I mean (0+ / 0-)
                1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems
                .
                Notice that that account doesn't actually tell us what he actually did to make it happen

                First of all, HE didn't "pass Obamacare," Congress did. He signed it but he didn't create it.
                Universal Healthcare was one of the goals of the Obama administration, or so they said but they never had a plan for it to begin with (Neither did the Democratic Party)  That's right, "After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance," after debating it and trying to get Universal Healthcare passed for 6 decades, Obama and the Democrats had no basic plan to put forward.
                Pretty dam lame I thought at the time and still think so.

                that doesn't seem much like a "Preturnaturally gifted leader and politician," that seems like a schlunk, who finding himself in power throws out goals and objectives with no clear notion on how to achieve them.

                From wiki:  In the whole lengthy article, staring with "Healthcare debate" through "Senate and "House" on how Obamacare was enacted, these below are the ONLY sentences that mention Obama's contributions at all. It looks like Olympia Snowe had more input into the making of Obamacare than Obama did.
                Obama in no way looks like " a preternaturally gifted leader and politician in this. He looks like someone who sent his goals to Congress to make  real.

                After his inauguration, Obama announced to a joint session of Congress in February 2009 his intent to work with Congress to construct a plan for healthcare reform.[
                ......To maintain the progress of the legislative process, when Congress returned from recess, in September 2009 President Obama delivered a speech to a joint session of Congress supporting the ongoing Congressional negotiations.
                ...... Instead, President Obama issued Executive Order 13535, reaffirming the principles in the Hyde Amendment.[115
                Obama signed the ACA into law on March 23, 2010.[119] The amendment bill,
                If the other 49 things on that list are such a credit grab for other people's work, its really just a paean to Obama. If Obamacare is an example of what a "preternaturally gifted leader and politician" does than someone needs to study the terms Preturnaturally and gifted.

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:06:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  "He's not a dictator, you know" (0+ / 0-)

            Obama is a man of compromise.  Leadership doesn't enter much into his leadership style.

            You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

            by Johnny Q on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 04:12:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget that Clinton's HCR crashed & burned (26+ / 0-)

          dramatically in 1993. Remember "Hillarycare"? The "Harry & Louise" TV commercial? The 2008 Dems in Congress hadn't forgotten.

          If by some miracle, Single Payer had been enacted in 2009, it too would have had a lengthy and fractious "roll-out"... just like Social Security, Medicare and SSDI.

          Don't fall for the delusion that the "path not taken" is smooth and strewn with flowers.

          “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing
          he was never reasoned into” - Jonathan Swift

          by jjohnjj on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:34:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, not really (0+ / 0-)
            If by some miracle, Single Payer had been enacted in 2009, it too would have had a lengthy and fractious "roll-out"... just like Social Security, Medicare and SSDI.
            The Feds could have simply lowered the Medicare eligibility age.

            That would have been a lot easier to do than to set up a difference "exchange" in every state.  Esp. when half of the states are run by people hostile to the law.

        •  And wasn't it republicans who first came up (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kombema, wader, Johnny Q

          with the name Obamacare?  And then the Democrats finally adopted it a long while later?

          Obamacare is a good example of that---altho it has his name on it
          •  It was smart to take R's "negative" term ... (3+ / 0-)

            ... and turn it against them, making it a badge of pride.  But ...

            After you've owned it, your #1 priority had damn well better be making sure it's really going to be something to be proud of.  

            That's not happening.  And that's really, really dumb.

            •  I'll never acknowledge that as a sound strategy. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo, RickD

              Republicans make harmful buzzwords (like Obamacare).

              Democrats adopt Republican words (like Obamacare) and try to "take them back" after years of the word being used in a vilifying sense. They use the words when there are obvious alternatives (The ACA, or "earned benefits" instead of "entitlements").

              It's not smart. In fact, it's just dumb.

              Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

              by Boogalord on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:04:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Let's Be Honest About Bubba's Legacy (5+ / 0-)

          DADT, DOMA, Welfare "Reform", the last vestiges of Glass-Steagall were repealed under Clinton, Clinton's Healthcare Reform plan was DOA, Clinton's Administration was marred in scandal and plagued by inaction on many fronts....Sorry, I am not buying the crap about Clinton.  Who cares about how many babies you kiss or the pain you feel if you can't do something substantive to get to the root of the pain.

          •  And these days, as he winds up his life (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RickD

            In the Oval Office, I get the feeling Obama is trying as hard as Clinton did, to make sure and please the Corporate One Percent so that when he leaves office, he gets the
            same deal of  $ 100,000 per speech in front of Corporate Podium, (or maybe more?) that Clinton got.

            Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

            by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:25:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I do believe that there are (0+ / 0-)

              some distinct and subtle differences between Clinton and Obama...I think that (both) Clintons are motivated by money (no ifs, ands or buts).  I don't get the sense that Obama is as motivated by material rewards, but I do believe that he is fascinated and believes in the "inherent competency" of other elites (those who have educational backgrounds similar to his own, no matter how much evidence there is that they don't know what the heck they are talking about).  While I don't expect Obama to join the Peace Corp when he leaves office (and I do expect him to deliver some well paid speeches), I suspect that his path will be slightly different from Clinton...

        •  How about the "policy school" he conducted (0+ / 0-)

          at the House Republican issue conference in 2009, without notes, for, what, an hour and a half? He needs to recapture that mojo.

          Okay, the Government says you MUST abort your child. NOW do you get it?

          by Catskill Julie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 05:29:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Bullshit. Obama had a plan laid out in his (0+ / 0-)

          campaign materials. If you looked under Health care on his issues tab he had a brief summary then at the bottom you could click for a longer summary or for a white paper that was about 10 pages long that set out a detailed plan. Yes, it included a public option.

          He didn't get everything he wanted and there are some things in the law he hadn't had in the plan but it was pretty damn close.

          Do you think he should have handed each congress critter a copy and said "get to work?" That's about what Hillary did. Didn't work out too well, did it?

          Feh.

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:49:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah and Clinton got us a health care law (0+ / 0-)

          Oh wait! He didn't.

          Why don't you ask Pelosi about Obama input on the ACA? I'll bet she will differ from you.

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:53:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I agree... (0+ / 0-)

          The CONCEPT behind the Affordable Care Act was better than the law that was actually passed. The IDEA of Barack Obama as President was more attractive than the job he's done since taking office. Pragmatism has not ruled the day in either case.

      •  If he were so "preternaturally" gifted... (7+ / 0-)

        We'd had Medicare for all. And if he were so "preternaturally," he would not have manifested such a lack of attention to detail concerning the website.

        He seems to be waiting for the $200,000-a-pop-Goldman-Sachs-lectureship circuit.

        "Goodness and karma bat last." - Anne Lamott

        by Superskepticalman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:50:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I couldn't agree more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        samddobermann

        He pummeled them twice in the elections, and he is slowly, surely, with intense difficulty making huge changes in this country. Get rid of these insane Republicans, and we will be golden when Hillary takes the oval office.

      •  Here's what happened: (0+ / 0-)

        He stumbled right out of the gate with Obamacare. He should have been ready to go on day one with the legislation but instead kicked to Congress to come up with something. And he got all bipartisany, even though by then the Republicans had proven themselves to be a crime family, not a political party. He dallied while the summer came and Freedom Works created astro turf organizations. Those organizations went unanswered. Kennedy died.

        Scott Walker came in and Obamacare was diluted to the pure Republican idea it is today, with the foolish idea of having the possibility of 52 exchanges and the potential for disaster that entails.

        It has been a disaster.

        They outsmarted him.

        If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

        by Bensdad on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:30:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Nobody has Bill Clinton's natural ability (28+ / 0-)

      to explain things to ordinary folks. Ronald Reagan had a preternatural ability to lie to people about economics but ordinary mortals don't  have Clinton's and Reagan's communication skills.

      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

      by FishOutofWater on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:27:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The staff has been awful from the beginning. (35+ / 0-)

      I've been complaining about it for years. The most significant social legislation in a generation and you've got a White House that can't sell it. Ridiculous.

      I was saying at the Recovery Act rollout that he is really badly served by his staff. Except when it comes to campaign staff. CLEARLY, they know what the fuck they're doing and do it right. But in the White House? Awful.

      •  I don't think they really understand (17+ / 0-)

        what it is like to be disadvantaged in this country -- whether by age, race, religion, disability, or (the biggest factor) economics.

        Has anyone on that staff even been poor? I don't mean the President; I mean his staff.

        I'll bet they all went to Ivies, or close approximations thereof, and they've never -- or rarely -- had to worry about where to find a job, a meal, or help with a medical issue.

        They have no empathy for the common person below a certain income level.

        And those who MIGHT have grown up disadvantaged have long since forgotten what it's like to not have one's basic life needs filled.

        That seemed clear to me when everyone was ready to toss so many people into the Medicaid system without a single thought about what would happen to them. Everyone hates Medicaid patients: they bitch about them everywhere. Why handicap the program from the start like that?

        Because nobody in the White House or Congressional staffs has to depend on it.

        They don't understand and they just don't care.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:21:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  mr.u and I have great ins. (8+ / 0-)

          He works for the school district and is in the union. We have insurance that is as good as any can buy in the state. My neighbors are on Medicaid. They have it better than us when it comes to health care.

          If something happens and they need to go to an ER, they go. We pay $500 cash up front if we go and that doesn't count towards our $2500 deductible. When it comes to hospitalization we pay 20% after we meet the deductible as well. Medicaid? zip

          I need a surgery right now and I'm putting it off because of cost. mr.u probably needs another sinus surgery, same thing. On Medicaid it would just be done and we wouldn't pay a dime out of pocket.

          I think that expanding Medicaid is a great idea, another back door to single payer in fact and the only "glitch" in that was thrown in by SCOTUS.

          And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

          by high uintas on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:55:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It also depends on how old you are. (3+ / 0-)

            I just found out recently that those over age 55 who get put on Medicaid are liable for repayment from their estates in some states.

            That is, if you have a house or retirement fund, Medicaid can go after your family to recoup their losses after you are dead.

            Since I'm 57, I guess that would mean me. Maybe it's a blessing they won't let me use it. But I don't have anything of value -- no house or retirement fund. I just worry they would go after my children for it.

            Medicaid is complained about by practitioners who don't get enough reimbursements and pharmacies who fill scrips for one customer for free while another with insurance can't afford the co-pay.

            I am sorry you and your husband are experiencing the health issues you are. I've had to forgo lots of health care, but mine are things like a blown knee, high blood pressure, and such.

            I wish we ALL had decent health care in this country, and that it didn't keep dividing even people on the same political side.

            Peace.

            "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

            by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:41:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This repayment is primarily for nursing (7+ / 0-)

              home expenses, not for medical treatment per se.  People can't qualify for Medicaid if they have more than certain amounts of assets, including the value of their home.  This provision permits the elderly to qualify for Medicaid even though the value of their home exceeds the minimum, and avoids the home having to be sold and the proceeds used before qualifying for Medicaid.  If you're under 55 and have a home with a half million in equity, you won't qualify for Medicaid.  If you're over 55, you will, but if you don't have a spouse living in the home, a lien can be placed on the home to ensure repayment.  

              It would be wonderful if everyone could be assured all necessary medical care without reimbursement.  But at $6,000 a month or more for a nursing home, it's difficult to keep costs within a manageable level, and that's one method they use.

              •  The repayment from the estates of older (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                beverlywoods

                Medicaid enrollees (55 and over) can include monthly premiums that were paid to HMO's ("capitation" cost) even though the enrollee uses very few services for many years. The only qualification for Medicaid under the ACA in California is annual income less than appx. $16,000. Older people with that income qualify for subsidized premiums available through the exchanges and might pay $37 for a Blue Shield Silver policy costing $478 in Central California, with no estate recovery for the cost of the subsidy.

                The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:30:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It would be wonderful if the rules were changed (0+ / 0-)

                  to this extent under the ACA, although I've heard nothing about it.  Two states exempted homes from the asset calculation for a long time, but the Federal government told them - change that or lose all Federal payments for Medicaid.  So I'd be somewhat surprised to find out the rules have changed to that extent.

                  •  The rules have changed for those states with (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gustynpip, samddobermann

                    Medicaid Expansion. The following was written in 2010 before states were able to opt out: The ACA “requires states to use a net income standard (no asset or resource test, no income disregards) to determine [Medicaid] eligibility.” Yep, you read that right, bye-bye asset test. Hello simple income test. The new federal income eligibility threshold will be 133% of the federal poverty level (effective 1/1/14). Link

                    This improved access to Medicaid is also reported in Inside National Health Reform by John E. McDonough, p. 144.  (published in 2011)

                    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                    by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:59:03 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Why the hell hasn't the admin been crowing (0+ / 0-)

                      about this to the rooftops???  This alone would turn an enormous number of people into fans of the ACA.  People are terrified of losing their homes and other if they need to enter the nursing home.  If they don't have to face that prospect, and it's due to the ACA, older folks will Love It.  

                      •  Medicaid rules have not changed with regard (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        beverlywoods

                        to "estate recovery," it seems.  For people 55 and over, Medicaid is still really a loan to be "clawed back" from the estate when a person dies. That can even include premiums the state has paid to HMO's for an enrollee. However, with the federal government paying 90% of Medicaid Expansion costs, it seems wrong and perhaps not correct that the state could claw all of them back from an estate. Re-paying nursing home costs after the death of a patient is still required from the sale of a home and other assets in an estate, if there is anything in an estate, but if a sibling or child or spouse lives in the home, etc. that might be waived. Rules vary from state to state.  Prior to Medicaid Expansion in California, a person could qualify for Medi-Cal if they had no more than $2000, a car, and a home. Now, an income of more than about $16,000 would qualify a person for subsidized insurance and be too high for Medi-Cal. In other words, Medi-Cal is great for younger people, but a complex issue for the 55-and-over group.

                        The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                        by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:51:08 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Estate Recovery (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              beverlywoods

              All states are required to undergo estate recovery for medicaid beneficiaries. In most states, all medical services are recoverable for all beneficiaries 55 and older. Long term care (nursing home care services) are also recoverable for people younger than 55. Thus, if you are 55 and older and agree to accept Medicaid, you are agreeing to a delayed bankruptcy. You agree to accept medical services, but when you die, all of your benefits must be paid back. I'm not sure whether capitation costs and interest are recoverable, but most commentators on this site seem to say that at least capitation costs are recoverable.

              For the most part, if you are expecting an inheritance from someone on medicaid, that owns no real property, you can forget about it. All of the estate's assets is going to go to the government. This will especially be true if the beneficiary was on long term care. Long term care these days costs about $80,000 per year.

      •  "The staff has been awful from the beginning" (13+ / 0-)

        Yes, especially his staff who advocated for him saying over and over again, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."  Which isn't true.  "And if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance," which also isn't true.

        That was a big, big, big mistake.  

        I think you have some great marketing ideas.

        This might have been a good move, but I'm wondering just how much the insurance companies really want to cooperate and do this:  

        On Tuesday, White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough met with a group of insurance executives to discuss ways insurers can help appease the growing number of U.S. residents whose coverage is being canceled, Reuters reports (Morgan/Rampton, Reuters, 11/5).

        [...]

        During the meeting at the White House, McDonough asked a group of insurance executives to help consumers who received the cancellation notices to understand their options under the ACA, including that they might be eligible for subsidies to help lower their costs (Sink, "Healthwatch," The Hill, 11/5).

        White House press secretary Jay Carney said that McDonough emphasized that all stakeholders involved in the exchanges are responsible for ensuring that consumers who cannot continue with their current policy are fully informed of their options (Felsenthal, Reuters, 11/5). In order to accomplish this, McDonough urged insurers to "ramp up communication and education efforts" with such individuals (Lederman, AP/Sacramento Bee, 11/5).

        http://www.californiahealthline.org/...
        •  some allowances there (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          samddobermann

          Obama says to taxpayer "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

          And then the doctor dies.  Taxpayer screams "You lied!"

          Obama says to taxpayer "If you like your policy, you can keep your policy."

          And then the insurance company discontinues the policy.  Taxpayer screams "You lied!"

          The basic point is that Obama didn't lie.  What he was saying was that the government wouldn't force insurance companies to change their policies, but rather they could be grandfathered in.  

          Insurance companies decided to not do that.

          •  I like my doctor (0+ / 0-)

            but if I qualify for insurance on the exchange, I can't keep my doctor. NH only has one insurance provider, Anthem. Anthem decided to limit its "network" to 16 out of the 26 hospitals in the state. The hospital my doctor is affiliated with (Frisbie in Rochester) has had the best deal for uninsured patients in the state. That hospital and the 80 doctors that go with it are not part of the "network" as far as Anthem is concerned.

            So now we watch as the "competition for profit under a monopoly" battles take place. But meantime, it looks like I can't keep my doctor.

            If you act out of anger, the best part of your brain fails to function. - the Dalai Lama

            by beverlywoods on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:49:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  start fighting with the insurance company (0+ / 0-)

              and call the hospitals business office and try to get them to get on the insurers panel.

              Also call the insurance regulator in the state and see what they can do. The ACA funds at least one person to help those ith insurance with their problems with insurers

              It can be done.

              It is likely after the first year other insurers will come in — when they have some data to go on.

              Or pay the out of network cost for that one doctor.

              I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

              by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 05:36:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  It's pretty much of a motif with Obama (3+ / 0-)

        that the people he delegates stuff to- the agency heads, for example- seem too passive and cautious, too willing to go out of the way of a fight.  In his/our war with the GOP he hasn't installed the sufficient number of hard generals who are determined to win it.

        He had Rahm Emmanuel for that job for a while.  But Rahm greatly prefers to fight pressures from the Left rather than the Right.

        Having said all that, inside the Congress the ACA ended up the muddle and defective compromise it is because the major factions wanted to prolong the fighting about it and all the related issues.  Everyone realized that something like the German/Swiss system/single payer is the technical solution we'll end up at.   But if we were to implement it straight up with full force of the federal government, all the arguments about "religious freedom" (aka indirect political power exertion of the RCC on contraceptive availability) and public health issues related to guns and notions of undeserving classes of Americans get swept away in fairly short order.  We couldn't have that, could we.

    •  one incident (15+ / 0-)

      about campaigning which he doesn't like all that much,  which I think was widely acknowledged in his run, and needed a similar ass kicking in Iowa.  So the flip side, is commentary on governing, and many times those stories come out with the President kicking staff ass to come up with better plans, rejecting military suggestions and telling them to come back with something better, etc.

      He isn't perfect,he has weaknesses.  But to make it sound like he can't explain things,  means nobody watched him when he took apart the Republicans at their caucus or the televised negotiations,  he can and does explain things.

      And I am always thankful he isn't Bill Clinton.

      •  The issue isn't the president personally in my (31+ / 0-)

        view, except that he has chosen a bunch of fuckups to run White House operations. And has for years.

        The President doesn't have time to do the blocking and tackling of a marketing campaign, which was this has to be. Basically, we have to go out and sell health insurance to people who currently don't have it, and convince them to buy it. We're not doing that very well.

        Where's Will.I.AM, and all that? Where's the star studded signup events that will cause a local Congressman or candidate in a GOP district to say 'hmmm....that's a lot of people. I think I ought to be there!'

        We've got none of that and I don't expect the president to be thinking about that sort of thing. I expect the staff to do that and go to the president and say 'sir..show up here with Oprah and we will get 15,000. Show up here with Katy Perry and get yourself another 30,000.'

        That's how this shit should be popping.

        •  You've got a lot of great (10+ / 0-)

          marketing and political outreach ideas for getting folks enrolled under the ACA. I hadn't even been thinking of it in terms of pure product marketing, chock full of celebrity endorsement, until reading this diary. Not that I'm a huge fan of corporate marketing, but they wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

          As for this:

          ...except that he has chosen a bunch of fuckups to run White House operations. And has for years.
          Sadly, this seems to be a time-honored tradition for most Presidents.
        •  Fabulous idea - signup events (5+ / 0-)

          Just have to figure out where to get the $$$ to make it happen.  College tours worked pretty well in the campaigns.

          Reach out your hand if your cup be empty, If your cup is full may it be again,

          by VPofKarma on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:58:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Even more simply they needed direct mail (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oofer, greengemini, CupofTea, Johnny Q, jfromga

          They should have mailed every American household detailed information about Obamacare with instructions on how to enroll.  

          They needed a marketing plan with multiple forms of communication.  

          •  They wouldn't have read it. A whole lot of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ems97206, jfromga

            people just have no interest unless a celebrity is involved.  While I'm not big on BBB's nitpicking, I think the WH should be hiring him as a marketing agent for the ACA.

            •  If 1 out of 10 read it, that would be 30 million (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mconvente, Johnny Q, jfromga

              That's why you need multiple forms of communication.  ACA can be important for people over 50 and they're not watching Miley Cyrus.  For this law to work over the long run it needs middle class buy in and so you have to market to the middle class not just at events that sign up the poor or to kids who get all their info on their phone.

              •  The kids are the ones that are actually "needed" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jfromga

                to get signed up.  And people over 50 would be as unlikely to read it as anyone else.  They might not be watching Miley Cyrus, but a whole lot of them are following a whole lot of other celebrities.  

          •  Thugs sabotagued even small efforts. Remember (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jfromga

            the 'McConnell threatened NFL' stories?  They also prohibited or blocked funds for certain marketing expenditures iirc.

            It doesn't excuse the staff's not thinking outside the box to get around this - or BOs apparently thinking he was done with campaigning after Nov. '13.  His distaste for campaigning (or using his office for it) is one of his faults.  
            The apparently inability or refusal of staff to understand that marketing is essential to governing is one of theirs.

            Why eg has he not had monthly prime-time addresses announcing new jobs initiatives but leading with a repetition of all the proposals he's made the Thugs have sat on? It doesn't matter if the new plan has a chance in hell, its the message not the policy that counts here.  The public is ADD and the media co-opted and complicit.  The only way to get voters to remember anything is to continually repeat it until it becomes a meme.

            And its not like the Adm. hasn't do something like this.  They routinely announce new plans.  But, its is the middle of the day and the media covers-then-ignores it.  The only way to get around the media is going directly to the people.  The weekend chats don't do that: again practically no one sees them and the media does not repeat them.  Only prime-time does that.  If the media refuses to cover it, which some might well at least after a while, that too sells the meme by illustrating how they are so co-opted that they literally don't care if you have a job.  

            I'm good with the voters understanding that the only folks who care if they have jobs are Democrats.

            (P.S.: The Adm./Potus rarely re-iterate the litany of blocked jobs proposals, probably for fear it might show impotence.  That is a serious mistake imo.)

        •  Where's the money for all that? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jfromga

          They tried to get funds for the roll out and the House wouldn't pass it.

          They tried to get the PRO football teams to come out in support and the Repubs wrote them letters saying don't you dare.

          What are YOU doing?

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 05:41:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  those are good ideas (0+ / 0-)

          now the question is how to find the ear of someone who might have the power to make it happen and who would listen.   Because it really would help.

      •  Good point. He was masterful as he took (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jfromga

        the Gopers arguments apart one by one and his depth of knowledge on health care was amazing.

        (p.s. - my agreement and recommendation doesn't include the gratuitous last line)

        Proud to be a Democrat

        by Lying eyes on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:01:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's fine (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lying eyes

          lots of people have different views of people.   As for it being gratuitous, maybe but in the context of the post I was replying to,   I wouldn't trade Obama for Clinton's consumer political skills, it doesn't occur to me to miss them or him, ever.  And as all comparisons are to some degree invidious, I felt it was fair game to rebut the 'if only Obama were more like Clinton' line of thought.

    •  Axelrod's waaay overrated...bigger ACA prob's... (23+ / 0-)

      ...immediately ahead...

      Top U.S. insurer sees weak Obamacare sign-ups, prepares for delay, Reuters (11/6/13)

      Look to the health insurer's "revised" revenue projections for some of the realities, ahead! They're always playing the "expectations game" in the markets; and, those tell us a LOT.

      And, then there's some of the more reality-based reporting from inside the Party on Capitol Hill...

      Obama gets earful from Senate Democrats about health law woes, Reuters (11/7/13)

      Yes, the optimism and spin in the Party, and even moreso in this community, about the underbelly of the ACA rollout, is being supplanted by a calendar that holds no prisoners and suffers no bullshit in our reality-based world.

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:41:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yep (10+ / 0-)
        about the underbelly of the ACA rollout, is being supplanted by a calendar that holds no prisoners and suffers no bullshit in our reality-based world.
        and 2014 is only eight weeks away. And i have yet to hear about the contingency plans if the website cannot be made functional in the next three weeks.

        Are we really going to start the new year will millions of people having lost their healthcare coverage? This could make people forget New Coke.

        •  The only question my mentor asked me when (11+ / 0-)

          I presented him with my very first computer program was

          What are you going to do when it fails?

          That's a question I took with my on every project throughout my career.   No one can do project management without knowing their critical points of failure.  It's never been a web site problem, it's a project management problem.

        •  Has that really been addressed by the White House (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q

          or the HHS?

          Are we really going to start the new year will millions of people having lost their healthcare coverage? This could make people forget New Coke.
          If they can't sign up by December 15, 2013, what are they supposed to do?

          Sebelius said during her testimony, paraphrasing, that most insurance companies have a small window of a few weeks to choose their next year's coverage, Medicare has I think a month, but the ACA HAS SIX MONTHS.

        •  there isn't one website (0+ / 0-)

          "And i have yet to hear about the contingency plans if the website cannot be made functional in the next three weeks."

          There are many websites.  Every state that has its own exchange has its own website.

          What Maryland is doing is something that the government should be doing at large.  Maryland not only has help phone lines for people who don't want to use the website, they also have regional offices in every part of the state, where a person could walk in and talk to a human being about getting enrolled in the program.

          The problem with fixing websites is that often the amount of time needed is hard to determine until all of the bugs are fixed.  And the issues here are not with the website so much as with how the various servers communicate with each other.  

          Rather than stressing over the website, the administration should just make sure that people have access to a way to get enrolled in the program itself.

          That's not the same thing.

      •  I would like to read that Reuters story (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobswern, triv33

        about the Senate Dems, but I get a malware warning and the site shuts down when I go there.

        And I have Ad Block running.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:29:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's the text... (7+ / 0-)

          By Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton

          WASHINGTON/DALLAS | Wed Nov 6, 2013 10:20pm EST

          (Reuters) - President Barack Obama met on Wednesday with frustrated Senate Democrats, some of whom fear the disastrous rollout of his signature healthcare law could complicate their already difficult re-election fights in 2014.

          The Obama administration has faced intense criticism since hundreds of thousands of people had their health insurance policies canceled because the plans do not meet new benefit requirements, despite Obama's pledge that Americans could keep their current plans under Obamacare.

          The fallout has been exacerbated by the fact that those affected cannot shop easily for insurance alternatives on the malfunctioning website, HealthCare.gov.

          Obama, joined by Vice President Joe Biden, sat down with 16 Senate Democrats, 15 of them who are up for re-election next year, many of them facing competitive races.

          One of the senators, Mark Begich of Alaska, said he expressed his frustration at the website during the two-hour session. It has not worked properly since going live on October 1.

          "It's absolutely unacceptable in this day and age that the administration can't deliver on the promises it made to all Americans because of technical problems with a website," Begich said.

          Senate Mark Pryor of Arkansas said after the meeting, "The American people are frustrated with the White House's botched rollout of the Affordable Care Act, and I am too." Pryor said he wants Obama to hold "individuals in charge" accountable for the launch.

          The meeting came just before Obama left for Dallas to speak at two fundraisers for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

          Obama told donors that 2014 congressional elections would be a tough fight.

          "The math is difficult for the Senate," Obama said. "If we don't give them the help that they need, then we could end up with a situation in which we've got a majority Republican Senate along with a majority Republican House."

          In a sign of its political potency, the rocky launch of Obamacare appeared to help Republican Ken Cuccinelli cut into the lead enjoyed by Democratic Party insider Terry McAuliffe, who won Tuesday's election for Virginia governor.

          'GOING TO GET THIS DONE'

          Some of the senators have said they want the enrollment period extended beyond March 31. But Obama believes there is enough time to fix HealthCare.gov and get people enrolled, White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.

          "We'll be able to do that within the six-month enrollment period that we talked about," Carney said aboard Air Force One.

          As many as 7 million Americans were expected to sign up for coverage in the first year through the online exchanges established under the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The law, upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court last year, mandates everyone have healthcare insurance coverage or pay a tax.

          A significant shortfall in enrollees, particularly among young and healthy people who cost less to insure, would undermine the ability of the exchanges to work financially.

          Before the fundraisers in Dallas, Obama met about 100 volunteers helping people sign up for health insurance.

          Dallas-Fort Worth has 1.1 million people without health insurance. In his motorcade, Obama passed protesters holding signs saying: "LIAR!" and "No Obamacare."

          He got a warm welcome from volunteers and thanked them for their help and urged them to keep working with the uninsured.

          "I just want all of you to remember that as challenging as this may seem sometimes, as frustrating as Healthcare.Gov may be sometimes, we are going to get this done," Obama said.

          Obama's top healthcare lieutenant was on Capitol Hill again on Wednesday where senators from both parties asked for details on the problems.

          Democratic Senator Max Baucus, chairman of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee, said he was disappointed to hear the administration say it did not see problems with HealthCare.gov coming.

          "When we asked for updates on the marketplaces, the responses we got were totally unsatisfactory. We heard multiple times that everything was on track. We now know that was not the case," he told Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

          Obama said the website should be operating smoothly for most people by the end of November.

          "Right now, I'm not happy with some IT (information technology) people in Washington," he told donors at one of the fundraisers in Dallas.

          His comment came after a shakeup at the government technology office that supervised HealthCare.gov.

          Tony Trenkle, head of technology at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is leaving the agency for the private sector, CMS spokeswoman Julie Bataille said on Wednesday.

          She said he "oversees all of our IT functions," but declined to describe his role in the website or say whether he had been asked to leave.

          (Reporting by Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton; Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell; Editing by Karey Van Hall, Mohammad Zargham and Peter Cooney)

          "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

          by bobswern on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:53:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  They're focused on the Grand Bargain & TPP (6+ / 0-)

        Two items on their agenda that they want passed as quickly and quietly as possible, preferably before Congress recesses for the Holidays.

        This ACA stuff is a big distraction for them.

        If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

        by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:38:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Corporate interests have been above the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WisePiper, Johnny Q

          people's interests in this administration in almost every single case and serious decision point.  There's no getting around the fact that this is a heavily Wall Street/Corporate White House from beginning to end.

          Is that Obama's fault? Does he really believe that way or does he believe he is helping people?  Well, he appointed all the people who are doing this work. The buck stops at the Oval Office desk.  

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:05:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well said (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caldera, Kickemout, Willa Rogers

        Obamacare will create well-deserving winners, and I wish them the best, but it's also going to create undeserving losers.

        Unfortunately, it seems many here are clinging to some all-winners fantasy and pretend the undeserving losers don't exist. Hence these manifestations of textbook cognitive dissonance:

        1. People are lying about how much Obamacare is hurting them. [rec list]
        2. People and the media are lying about the healthcare.gov Web site because of the diarist's anecdote involving an unclear goal, so everyone should please stop saying healthcare.gov doesn't work. [rec list]
        3. Diarist with negative experiences been around on DKos for years but has a comment history that has a whiff of Saturnian energy and too many words with a numerological value of 6? Busted! Right-wing infiltrator.

        Fortunately, there'll soon be a critical mass of negative experiences in which these knee-jerk, unhelpful-to-ACA responses give way to something more reasonable and considered. As noted in a recent diary, I believe the more reasonable response will be a refined version of the "junk insurance" angle -- but it remains to be seen whether that's going to placate people who insist they knew what they were paying for and had a history of approved claims for acceptable premiums/co-pays/deductibles.

      •  CBS reported the meeting with the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        triv33, slinkerwink, Pluto, Johnny Q

        Senators and implied that the meeting was held so that the Democratic senators could tell their constituents that they met with Obama to complain about the ACA.  (Implying that will cover them in their reelection.)

      •  That's why if Obama hadn't been so keen on the (9+ / 0-)

        idea that corporations are the savior of this great nation, he'd have fought tooth and nail for single payer trying to get a majority of public opinion on his side even if it didn't pass for no other reason than to start squeezing the insurance industry's balls in a vice.

        He had his shot, but he chose corporations over people-powered government like a sucker thinking a "three-card Monte" dealer was actually being a nice friendly guy that was actually rooting for his success.

        Instead, now the insurance industry has momentum on their side and are starting to take advantage.

        And the law demands people buy in.

        Fuck.



        "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

        - Louis Brandies

        by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:53:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Clinton & Obama have different styles... (10+ / 0-)

      My impression is, that Clinton loves talking and meeting people. He excells at getting his points across in a way that average folks can relate to.  Obama has the skills to communicate when he puts his mind to it, he can inspire people--- but it isn't the part of the job he enjoys.  

      I remember hearing stories about Clinton "melting down", though.  Probably not over anything like a debate.  I don't know how true these stories are--- these guys are human, after all, and the pressures are incredible.  Especially when you consider the fact that the entire presidency of any Democrat is going to be consumed with fighting constant attempts by Republicans to destroy your life and reputation.

      I wonder what qualifies as a "meltdown" where Obama is concerned?  He is such a cool customer, that I'm guessing if he raises his voice at all, that is a "meltdown" for him.

      •  Clinton was failing in Arkansas (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VPofKarma, Chaoslillith, mconvente

        Until he was flown around in a small plane by a man named Hillary Jones, who taught him how to talk to "just folks" in the hills and other poor areas.

        Not many people know that, it appears.



        Women create the entire labor force.
        ---------------------------------------------
        Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:30:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  WTF? (21+ / 0-)
      Obama's great at reading a speech, but get him out of that mode in trying to explain things to ordinary folks and he often seems out of his depth.
      He's provided a means for all of us to get affordable health insurance.  

      That's an enormous accomplishment and has nothing to do with "giving a speech."

    •  After all that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Loge, kefauver, Matt Z

      he fucking rocked in all subsequent debates. great men are all idiosyncratic, he is too.

    •  right wing teleprompter meme. (8+ / 0-)

      oh, and while i know it's popular to malign OFA here, they're actually working on getting people signed up for the ACA.  I think one can acknowledge Obama's not served well all the time by his staff without getting to the conclusion that he doesn't know how to be President, which is ridiculous.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:24:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Too much "hands off" management (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell, Johnny Q

      not enough concern or desire to learn about policy and administrative details continues to be a problem keeping this Administration in a bubble.

      Their entire focus is on political gamesmanship, not on doing the job they were elected to do - run the Executive Branch, get bills passed in Congress.

      This is why the economy is still a shambles, unemployment is high and poverty reaching new heights.  No one in the Obama administration is working on it.  

      Like him or no, its the one area where Bill Clinton and Al Gore excelled.  They paid attention to details, they showed up at the office every day focused on running the government, fixing the economy, keeping the US out of war.  This Administration? No way.  All of the focus is on running a political campaign - fundraising, political games and communications.  

      If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

      by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:31:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This thread went from constructive criticism (20+ / 0-)

      to full on ODS in no time flat. A new record, if you ask me.

      "HIS BRAIN JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE JOB!!!!"

      Jesus. A new low.

      You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

      by tomjones on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:49:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Without Plouff or Axelrod"... So let me get this (9+ / 0-)

      straight. Barack Obama, who is a master of grass roots campaigning, would not be anything wiothout Plouff or Axelrod.

      For your information, Barack Obama (before Plouff and Axelrod) is responsible for organizing one of the largest voter registration drives in the history of the Democratic Party, an effort which helped Bill Clinton win his 1992 Presidential election.

      Nothing new here. When those who despise the President on the Right and Left have failed in convincing the world, for more than five years, that the President is a loser or corrupt, they will try to paint him as incompetent....

      Same ship....different day.

    •  He might have had pre-debate butterfiles (5+ / 0-)

      But he kicked ass in that second debate. Isn't that what counts?

      Useless gossip from Double Down.  Where is Theodore H. White (Making of the President(s)) when you need him. I, know, like so many others, dead.

      I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

      by al23 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:56:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not a pile on (0+ / 0-)

      but from the beginning he struck me as a mediocrity, a middle manager who neither deigns to do detail work (shouldn't he have asked whether the computers that serves his signature bill was ready for prime time?), nor the integrity nor insight to be a good executive (hire excellent people to make sure the program would be up and running).  

      Clinton has described him as "luckier than a dog with two d**ks."  I think he means to be in the position he is in.

      He who would trade liberty for security deserves great customer service.

      by Publius2008 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:57:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, in defense, I'd rather be lucky than good. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rick Aucoin, Johnny Q

        There are people who have fuckin luck, and you'd be crazy to bet against the lucky. On paper, they are usually the least likely and expected to succeed. But when you got luck, you don't really need anything else.

      •  That from the guy who won because of a third (0+ / 0-)

        party candidate. And was impeached cause he screwed up on details.

        You know Buffett said Obama would be capable and he would have him running one of his companies and I think he knows more than you. He's done a number of things functioning as an executive and done them well.

        Let's see, FEMA works well, the Labor department is functioning and making a difference, more than 20 police department are being investigated for excessive brutality, and the list could go on.

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:11:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh my. A litle tidbit of gossip certainly causes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sviscusi

      you to reach incredibly broad conclusions.  I don't think Obama has been a particularly good president and I've often been disappointed in him.  But the kind of petty nitpicking contained in this comment is just plain silly.

    •  While I was disappointed in his (0+ / 0-)

      Past negotiating skills, can I just say that I am thrilled with this last BS go around with the Repubs.

    •  Weird, weird, incorrect, and off topic Dallasdoc (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, doroma

      This diarist makes an excellent point and you sabotage.  Good for you for being toxic.

      Now you make everyone come to the Presiden'ts defense instead of discusssing how to make Obamacare work.

      I have worked hard all my life as an independent contractor and I need Obamacare.

      Romney's whole business was about maximizing debt, extracting cash, cutting head counts, skimping on capital spending, outsourcing production, and dressing up the deal for the earliest, highest-profit exit possible. -- David Stockman.

      by CupofTea on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:14:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  REALLY? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, doroma

      Did you just babble this crap?

      REALLY?

    •  Whoah, WTF? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, doroma, samddobermann

      Seriously?

      ANYTHING right?

      WT-everloving-F?

      Hyperbole much?


      "The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it" - Dr. Lawrence Krauss

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:23:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yet another indication that in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell, WisePiper

      The New Millennium, we don't have Presidents, we have Corporate Spokespeople.

      When so many of his initial appointments were former Clinton and yes, even Bush appointees, it became obvious that the man doesn't have a grand imagination. (Or maybe any imagination?) Speech giving was his specialty, but a president whose main talent is speeches is not about to accomplish what America needs.

      America needed a FDR, or Eisenhower or Kennedy. Heck, even a Truman would have been okay. One of the reasons that FDR was great was he was from the monied class, so he didn't feel that he had to "get in good" with that class.

      Same with Kennedy. And Eisenhower was in an unique situation as having been the Commander of the Largest and most hard fighting and successful army America had had, he knew the Military Industrial complex from the inside out.

      It was his genius to see to it that community hospitals got built, community colleges, and the national highway system as well.  With so many returning GI's back in the workforce, America became prosperous for several decades, starting with Eisenhower's concepts. All because E valued money spent on schools and hospitals more than money spent on war and weaponry. (Perhaps seeing so much devastation in Europe showed him where that sort of spending ultimately went.)

      So now in 2013, our infra structure is shot, and our schools are short on cash, and the hospitals, that need to have been reinforced for the massive patient use they can anticipate should the ACA succeed, and good ol Obama is spending Tuesday afternoons deciding which "terrorist" our drones should hit.

      Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

      by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:04:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure. He's on your side, you know. (0+ / 0-)

      Have a glance at this (in case you don't believe it):

       http://neweconomicperspectives.org/...

    •  YOu guys going to finance this grand (0+ / 0-)

      Campaign? You have the rent for Barclays, what ever that is?

      You know they asked for funding to help with the roll out and for publicizing it and the funding was denied?

      You can't expect people to sit in a stadium or whatever and just make up their minds about which policy to choose.

      And there is no sense in being all rah rah about it until the website is fixed.

      Taking your thinking from a gossip column book shows where you are coming from. The authors haven't forgiven Obama for defeating Hillary and then McCain.

       

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:42:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The story "explained a lot," if you believe it. (0+ / 0-)

      That is, if you're predisposed to believe everything bad you hear about Obama. It should take an open-minded person more than reading one book, however "sourced" it may be, to be persuaded of the author's point of view.

  •  The Repubs are focused on Obamacare (33+ / 0-)

    You would think the Dems would be focused on getting people enrolled. You're right, enrollment is a key measure of success.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:18:33 AM PST

  •  Rec'd for early warnings... (25+ / 0-)

    For better or worse this is their 2nd term agenda so they better get this right. If they don't make this work they'll breathe new life into the GOP and usher in a whole new wave of tea party ass-clowns.

    And no one needs that.

  •  No Conception of Explaining, Teaching, Marketing (10+ / 0-)

    policy. They're allergic to it.

    They had to give us a historic defeat for either party in order to learn they needed to campaign for elections. Auspices not good for health care vs. 2014.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:23:55 AM PST

  •  those people (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cslewis, quill, Shifty18, Johnny Q
    That means working class people who have a full time job, but don't get health benefits at work because its too expensive and they're healthy enough to put it off. That's our group. It also happens to be a big chunk of our base.
    who think it's too expensive now, are being required to sign up so that their premiums can pay for themselves, and also subsidize those who are older/sicker.

    So their premiums will be even higher than before. That will take quite a sales pitch.

    •  They don't have a premium at all now. (13+ / 0-)

      That's why its going to take a hell of a sales pitch. And I'm not seeing it at all.

      No celebrities out hawking it at concerts or in commercials. No ads during football games. Nothing.

      Pathetic.

      •  Obama doesn't do spotlight-sharing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Betty Pinson, Alice Olson

        He's either top bill or nothing at. You can tell whenever he appears with Bill or Hillary. Teeth-grinding time. His narcissism is his enemy.

        And no, folks, this is not an HRable comment because it makes you haz a sad.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:06:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  when he stops calling it Obamacare (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Betty Pinson, annan

          time to be afraid.

          •  I honestly don't care what he calls it (4+ / 0-)

            But as enjoyable as it still is to listen to him speak publicly, I must admit, I want substantive followup. I don't expect him to personally nurse every policy through, but I do expect him to hire the right people to do that and then make sure that they do it. Why he needed to yank Sebelius out of a red state and make her head of HHS when there were so many other qualified people, some likely more qualified, given the rollout, allowing Brownhole to sweep in and take over in Kansas, I will never understand. Same with Biden, Clinton, etc. It's like he needed to be surrounded by grownups.

            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

            by kovie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:20:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I don't have a theory on Hillary but (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie, Alice Olson, poco

          could it be that although Bill is a great pol, that in real life he is just a skirt-chasing asshole?  I'm not a narcissist but I can't see myself being that excited about hanging out with Bill either.  I hear that one of Bill's best buds is Ed Rendell - another great pol and skirt-chasing asshole.  

          •  He's more than just a skirt-chasing asshole (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Alice Olson

            But he's that, too. I don't think that that's why Obama doesn't like being on stage with him, though. I think it's more a personality clash. They're both attention-seekers and that doesn't mix well.

            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

            by kovie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:20:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I really don't think it is that deep - (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HCKAD, melo

              Clinton is an extravert and Obama is an introvert - and I just haven't seen much evidence that PBO is a "top bill seeker."  He strikes me more as someone who doesn't much like to spend time with large ego, bloviators - of which Bill is one.  I'm an introvert - the type who people that don't know me well could mistake for an extravert.  I'm very good in public settings, a very good presentation giver, I have a nice group of good friends, people think I'm very funny.  However, I am very comfortable keeping my own company and while I don't need the limelight, I don't especially like spending time with people who always do.  They just get on my nerves and I think people like that are insecure.  The interesting thing about all the Obama psychoanalysis is that we all have opinions - and they are really nothing more than that.

          •  That would be Ed, screw granny out of SS, Rendell (4+ / 0-)

            of Fix the Debt, they bought me fair and square fame?

        •  It is so dumb it gave me a laugh.n/t (0+ / 0-)

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:23:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  We have the Republicans to thank for that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kefauver, denig, poco

        There were some football players that were going to do it, and the right wingers started threatening them, causing the owners to make them pull out.



        Women create the entire labor force.
        ---------------------------------------------
        Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:37:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I did see during a committee hearing the (0+ / 0-)

        question being asked, and I'm totally paraphrasing, but you'll get the gist:  Do you have plans to sell/advertise the ACA once you get the site fixed, and the answer was yes.  

        I don't remember who that was but it was someone speaking on behalf of the Administration.

        I didn't watch more after that, so don't know if the specifics were asked in a follow-up question.

        •  I'm not buying that. Sounds like bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

          When I see some reporting in Crains or Hollywood Reporter that says 'such and such has signed up to manage a major ad campaign for ObamaCare' then I'll buy it.

          •  Granted, it may not be the marketing you (0+ / 0-)

            have in mind, which I think is great, I'm just saying what I heard.  I don't know the details.

          •  From Politico (0+ / 0-)
            In July, HHS inked a $33 million contract with PR giant Weber Shandwick. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid had already signed a $3 million and $8 million contracts. Porter Novelli also has a $20 million contract with the agency.
          •  They have an ad campaign all ready to go... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            glynis, high uintas

            They have planned a huge campaign to boost signups. They can't use it (yet) because of the website issues.

            Obamacare marketing push on hold

            Team Obamacare is sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars of essentially frozen assets — yet another consequence of the failed launch of HealthCare.gov.

            There’s no point in an ad blitz directing people to sign up on a website that doesn’t work. And while advocacy groups say they had always planned to spend more money on the back end to boost enrollment in lagging states at the end of this year and early next year, they didn’t count on the opening month fizzle.

            You can have the greatest PR program imaginable on all different platforms — social, media, advertising and earned media — but you have to have a product that is functioning,” said Peter Mirijanian, a Washington PR veteran.

            The pro-Obamacare interest groups have been holding back, according to White House and insurance industry sources, in large part because they don’t want to direct people to a website that’s not working.

            “There was definitely a pullback,” said one health insurance company executive, noting concern about “money wasted” on advertising. “Why would you spend $1 million sending people to a website that’s broken?” the executive asked.

            You seem oddly oblivious to the fact that there is no point in a huge PR campaign until the signup process is fixed. It would actually be counter-productive right now to push even more people into the pipeline when it is already clogged.
            •  But that's another example of project management (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Johnny Q

              failure.  If anyone was managing the ACA rollout as a project they had to identify their critical points of failure and the web site should have been at the top of the list.  Given that, it needed extra special super duper end to end testing and a robust contingency plan.  

              The marketing plan should not be failing because the web site is failing.  Instead, someone should have said "Whoa, if the web site fails, our marketing plan will fail because it depends on the success of the web site".  

              The web site problems are only a symptom of broader problems in managing the whole project.

          •  Great ad campaigns call for $$$$$ n/t (0+ / 0-)

            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

            by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:26:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  No money for it. Repubs threatened the football (0+ / 0-)

        teams if they worked on it.

        You really are a Chicken Little: The sky is falling, the sky is falling ...

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:22:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Ha, I've got some sad news for the President. (15+ / 0-)
    [T]he president’s aides are expected to focus not just on health care but on the myriad other issues on Obama’s agenda
    With Republicans controlling the House, there is no viable "agenda"  likely to yield any meaningful legislative action.  The ball is in the GOP's Court on immigration. Beyond actions he can take under his Executive powers his agenda is going to be sidelined by budget wars.

    The sooner they realize that the better.

  •  Without the public option (27+ / 0-)

    the ACA is nothing more than another Heritage Foundation supply side economics scheme. Just like giving the banks and energy companies everything they wanted provided no benefit to the American people, and actually proved quite disastrous; trading the public option for nothing discernible, is also proving to be disastrous. A Republican plan is a Republican plan.

    I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

    by jhecht on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:41:44 AM PST

  •  35 minutes yesterday - all sorted with healthcare (25+ / 0-)

    Using the federal site as Louisiana doesn't have an exchange.  Not working my ass.

  •  keep telling it, bbb. (9+ / 0-)

    we need to write the WH and continue to offer up ideas for mktg.
    it would be so so simple.
    they never anticipate the right's hate/obstruction messages.  never.
    it's just shocking...at this point in his presidency, too!
    so easy to combat the "obama didn't tell the truth" about "you can keep your plan"--

    if your plan is f***ing ILLEGAL, then no, you can't keep it.
    does your plan have a cap?
    does your plan restrict pre-existing conditions?
    does your plan include hospitalization?
    in order to be called HEALTH INSURANCE, it has to meet some basic criteria.
    if it doesn't, well, then it's ILLEGAL under the new law.
    how hard was that to say?  and i'm freakin blonde!

    I am tired of laughing at the irony of their stupidity.

    by stagemom on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:00:05 AM PST

  •  Obama's a bit like Christie that way (3+ / 0-)

    He LIVES for the cameras, crowds and adulation, not so much for the followup and implementation. You know, what's it called, tip of my tongue...oh yeah, governing. Thankfully, he's smarter and has better subordinates than Christie. But the inattention to detail and followthrough has marked his career. He just doesn't seem to care about or be able or willing to focus on the difficult job of translating great-sounding ideas and sound bites into actual functional policy.

    If the US had a ceremonial presidency, akin to Israel's, Obama would be ideal for the job. He's amazing at the public stuff, the crowd-rallying, the pep talks and such. Sometimes I wish we had a parliamentary system so we'd have less "charming" leaders actually getting stuff done and not having to worry so much about making pretty speeches and striking "Grand Bargains" intended to win over the beltway punditocracy. Alas, we do not.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:04:23 AM PST

    •  Can you believe the President wastes time (4+ / 0-)

      with intellectual discussions with David Brooks? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING WASTING YOUR TIME WITH THAT CLOWN??!!!!

      Fuck is a president doing spending ANY time at all with a pundit?

      •  Perhaps because Obama isn't actually (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        protectspice, Brown Thrasher

        the towering intellectual he's often made out to be by some of his surrogates and supporters, just because he went to Columbia and Harvard Law and was the president of its Law Review and wrote a couple of books? All impressive accomplishments, no doubt, and he's clearly a very smart man. But an actual intellectual? I don't see it. Too intellectually lazy IMO, proven by his continual enabling of demonstrably silly memes like the need to reduce our debt and deficit ahead of stimulus and infrastructure investment, and via spending cuts no less. Which is why he relates best to beltway pseudo-intellectuals like Brooks, Friedman and other Charlie Rose stalwarts, and ignores actual ones like Krugman and Dionne. Theirs is the level he operates at, not just publicly, but intellectually. I personally think he's a lot smarter than that, naturally, but chooses to dumb himself down because it's easier and safer.

        He has convinced himself that people like Brooks are actually saying things that make sense and matter on a substantive level, and that it's necessary not only to engage them publicly, but substantively. He has bought into the reality-shaping mindset famously quoted by Ron Suskind as told to him be a senior Bush official, that reality is what you say it is or want it to be, if you have power. Put another way, I think that like many self-lying politicians who live in a reality bubble, he has convinced himself that if you're rich, powerful and successful, you are the definer and maker of reality. It's very seductive and I don't think he has the force of character to resist it. So naturally, he'd seek out the approval of people who also live in this bubble, thinking that their opinions are the only ones that matter. Everyone just doesn't "get it".

        Like you, me and Krugman.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:31:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sebelius said they'll release actual numbers next (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, kefauver

    Just wait for those official numbers.
    Meanwhile GOOPs can't wait. The suspense is KILLING them.

  •  It would probably help if democrats, who stand (10+ / 0-)

    to lose the most (as to Progressives) if the ACA causes big political fallout would stop making it about the President's personal characteristics and flaws and start talking about what needs to be done.  This diary makes an excellent point and keeps focus where it needs to be.  I just find it unhelpful that the first comments here end up being about the President's failures as a communicator, leader, person, whatever.  It seems to me that the President's critics are much more obsessed with the politics of personality and cult than they are about policy.  If your default position is always to defend the President no matter what you may not be thinking clearly.  If your default position is to always personalize every failure and make it the President's only you have the same problems.  Can we just get over people's obsession about the President and start talking about solving problems and guiding policy.  Which is what this diary does.  The Administration and the President need to focus on getting enrollments up.  Good point.  Arguments about the President's perceived failures as a communicator or leader, meh.  He either is or isn't.  If he isn't we still need to get enrollment up.

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:07:41 AM PST

  •  Hey White House (10+ / 0-)

    Get BBB on a plane, because his vision of this thing is exciting and would work! Turn it into a people's campaign to counter all the bought media! Create excitement, make enrolling a counter cultural act of rebellion. Create real populist energy around this.

  •  Okay then, what are you posters doing? (6+ / 0-)

    It is clear that you all have a computer and my guess would be a printer as well.  Why don't you lend a hand and help to enroll your buds and their buds?  Simple stuff, just print out an application and fill it out where indicated, send it in and we can get this going.   Talk to people and get them fired up, it does not matter who you see, they all need this stuff man.  It is not universal healthcare, but it is a start in the right direction.

    Me, I have started doing that little bit to help.  Today, I am going to see some people and get them on the road to enrollment.  You can too, pretty simple stuff if I can figure this out.  I don't need a bunch of dumbass politicians giving me direction either, not on something I believe in.  If they are so stupid as to not see the tremendous value of this, they should be voted out and replaced by someone who has the passion for the job at hand.  You know what else I am making sure of, that they know what they need to do to get registered to vote and to vote.

    •  Been working on it for months (6+ / 0-)

      Web site, twitter, meetings, hotline, etc.   I just spent 2 hours on the phone this morning helping a cancer patient understand.

      All volunteer.  How about you?

      If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

      by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:03:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes and no jasan. (0+ / 0-)

      Yes.  I found it very helpful to be able to refer people to drug stores to sign up.  That signup method is going to be key for thousands. And I'm glad I can contribute and send hundreds thataway.

      No. Because the diarist makes a good point that the BIG numbers need not only ground troops but concentrated attention from the top on rallying those troops.

      Romney's whole business was about maximizing debt, extracting cash, cutting head counts, skimping on capital spending, outsourcing production, and dressing up the deal for the earliest, highest-profit exit possible. -- David Stockman.

      by CupofTea on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:38:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No argument intended with the diarist (0+ / 0-)

        I am only bringing to the table another route to help.  The dumbass politicians need to step up, but we cannot count on them to do much of anything other than look at their belly buttons.  We speak of grassroots, now is the time to show that and that is exactly what I meant.  Now take a look at the application and you will see clearly that there is a place on Step 6 just below the address to send the application to that asks if you want to register to vote.  If so you pick up a registration form at usa.gov.  Is that cool or what?  You can kill two birds with one damn stone, sweet.

  •  "Marketing?" "Starting?" Um. No. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice, Mike RinRI

    It's way too late to "start" anything wrt the insurance scheme that's haltingly under way. This thing has been in process for years. The "start" has long since passed.

    And it's interesting that there has been so little sales and marketing of it up to now, and even more interesting that the sales and marketing pitch that has gone on has been so incoherent and... for lack of a better word... crazy. This is quite apart from the fucked up website.

    The non-campaign on behalf of Obamacare is itself illustrative of something. Maybe a lack of faith/belief at the top? I don't know.

    The insurance companies that this contraption is intended to guarantee profits to certainly aren't making any effort on their own account. Their cancellations and stratospheric premium hikes for millions are making matters worse, far worse. This is no accident; these cancellations and premium hikes were planned months ago if not longer.

    So what's the game plan here? Convincing people to do something that is really not in their interests may be the essence of good marketing, but it's hideous policy. Starting to do this now hardly makes sense.

    Blogging as Ché Pasa since 2007.

    by felix19 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:12:25 AM PST

  •  The Website Needs To Get Fixed ASAP (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VPofKarma, Alice Olson

    Saying that, I think that the POTUS going to Texas and making a big splash got people in Texas's attention.  I will keep saying that the biggest help that ACA will have is word of mouth.  No ad campaign or glitzy rollout will do the work of one person enrolling on the ACA website and getting affordable insurance.  One person telling another person and so on and on until word of mouth spreads.  Patience is a virtue, but hard for this day and age when everyone wants what they want right now.  I believe that when the website is fixed, the President and his minions will be out there in force.  

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:18:29 AM PST

  •  Stark different between can and want to afford h/c (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChemBob

    I'm a little incoherent down below, so TL;DR is given set amount of discretionary monthly income, will the uninsured youth choose to spend that on healthcare or not?

    Usually people get wiser as they get older, which would lead me to believe they'll eventually enroll, especially if they have a family to take care of.

    But I can't help but thinking about people who make enough money but choose not to spend it on a healthcare policy, people for whom the penalty is worth it to them.

    Remember, there is a stark difference between can afford and want to afford. If you're 28 years old, single, and uninsured with say $500 a month in discretionary income, you might be smart and save it all or dumb and spend it all. But if your monthly plan comes to $250 a month, well then you have to choose whether or not that's worth it to you.

    •  I think you're selling young people short. When (4+ / 0-)

      I was 23 (a long time ago) I took a job I was overqualified for simply because it offered health insurance. I would hope there are many in their late 20s who realize that they need insurance if they want to build a future that doesn't include overwhelming medical debt should they have a car accident, or break a leg skiing or any of the myriad things that can happen even to young people.

  •  I agree it's a great idea, but... (0+ / 0-)

    What if they held an event for the uninsured, and nobody signed up? If you're working for the President, how would you spin that bad news story away? I think timing is critical here.

    President Obama has the amazing ability to humiliate his biggest critics, on the right and the left.

    by NoFortunateSon on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:31:19 AM PST

  •  I agree triple-B (4+ / 0-)

    Much of this president's legacy will rest on this.

    It's imperative that this Administration get this right...to the best of it's ability in all of it's phases.

    Tipped and recced.

    •  No. Its bigger than that. (7+ / 0-)

      This is the whole ballgame for Demcorats. We are the party of government. If government doesn't work, we get blamed. People expect Republicans to fuck up government because they hate it. Not us. We have to make government work and work well.

      Right now, we've got the right to rule because the GOP is so crazy. But if, and its a big if, they step away from the crazy and we fucked up the biggest social legislation in a generation, then we're going to have big fucking problems.

      We have no choice but to make this shit work. I will keep saying so and not relying on faith and hope. I want to see some signs somebody is on the ball.

      •  if this goes down hard (0+ / 0-)

        they won't even have to step away from the crazy. 2014 campaign commercial

        "I'm not a Democrat.
        I hate what the presidents Obamacare did as much as you do.
        My opponent helped pass it.
        Vote Accordingly"

      •  Not to overstate the importance (3+ / 0-)

        I don't think I'd be too far off in saying that the elections of 2014 and 2016 are directly dependent on the success or lack thereof of Obamacare.  Quite frankly I don't think it's a stretch to say that, in the absence of any coherent effort by the administration, the Democratic Party and it's allies should be investing heavily in assuring that the ACA is a success.
        Make no mistake; this is one of the biggest political campaigns we'll wage this decade.
        To this point, the selling of Obamacare has been disgraceful.  It would take a lot to make the republicans look more capable than Democrats but there is a golden opportunity for either party to win large over the next few months.

  •  The Republican disinformation campaign (3+ / 0-)

    is working and is not getting countered.  Folks I talk to about Obamacare have the strangest ideas about it and they aren't Fox viewers.  IMHO, the mainstream media is skewing this issue toward the Republican talking points in order to rehabilitate them in the public's eyes and there is not sufficient pushback.  Shame on the Dems for getting cold feet when they should be actively supporting the law and fighting back on the criticism.  It's quite tiresome and more than upsetting to watch.  I wonder what would have happened if more active attention to the rollout had been given instead of going down the insane Syria gambit.  Seems to me like that mess wasted a bunch of time and energy.

  •  Could be the most passive President and Party (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice, Johnny Q

    ever?  

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:39:49 AM PST

  •  In my opinion (0+ / 0-)

    The Obama WH has very very very little interest in policy implementation. They are concentrated in the big stuff, whatever that is, and as I had been botched this because they told someone go and do it instead of having a plan and implementing it and follow through.  

    I hope our next candidate has an agenda and plans to pass AND implement liberal policies.

  •  They need to send out a comprehensive (12+ / 0-)

    booklet called "The ACA and You" to every household in America with a PAPER APPLICATION in it and prominent placement of the phone number to enroll.

    The cover should say, "Do you pay for your own health insurance? Or, do you not have any health insurance at all? Read this."

    I have begun to suspect that there is a huge population out there of all the people who have been paying for their own insurance who hold the belief that Obamacare is only for the very poor or for people who are uninsured.

    All these people who are complaining about their policies being cancelled who have crap insurance they are paying out of pocket for have somehow missed the very basic point that they will probably get a much better, cheaper deal on the exchanges with the government picking up part of the tab.

    A whole bunch of America is apolitical and ill-read and it does not look like there has been much if any attempt to educate the public about the benefits of the ACA TO THEM.

    The marketing and selling of the ACA has been a demonstration of incompetence beyond belief and it's the direct result of the bubble culture of the beltway who couldn't find their ass with both hands.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:42:57 AM PST

    •  I think you have a great idea (3+ / 0-)

      about the mailers.  Someone mentioned that here before, maybe it was you, but that makes the most sense at this point:  Give accurate information to people via snail mail and make it easy to understand.

      -------------

      All these people who are complaining about their policies being cancelled who have crap insurance they are paying out of pocket for have somehow missed the very basic point that they will probably get a much better, cheaper deal on the exchanges with the government picking up part of the tab.
      I don't blame them a bit for complaining about it, because they were misled.  

      But like you said, if HHS can get accurate information to them quickly, that will be better for everyone.  Although, it's not just people with crap insurance who are getting their policies canceled, it's also people who have pretty good insurance at a decent or high rate whose policy didn't include one of the 10 ACA benefits.

      ------

      Going OT a bit, but unless and until everyone has access to high speed Internet in every part, I mean every part of the U.S. and unless and until they can afford to buy a computer of some sort and afford to pay for high speed Internet access, government and private companies have to, just have to stop relying on a website for everyone to get the information they need.  We're just not there yet.

      Not to mention there are millions of people who don't know how or just can't use a computer.

      Need information?  Just go to www.blah.com and you'll find everything there.  No, not everyone has that luxury.

    •  We get an updated Medicare booklet (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell

      every year.  We get update SS info, too.  So the knowhow and ability to implement are already there.  They shouldn't be starting from scratch.

      Furthermore, the assumption that most people can handle computer sign ups (even with good software) is simply another indication of the bubble around the current executive branch.

  •  you can't be serious? (6+ / 0-)
    That event SHOULD have been at Barclays and it should have been exclusively for folks who don't have health insurance. And then you have a signup campaign just afterwards. Boom...get yourself 40000.
    Here comes the boom?  Signing up for the HIX is not like registering to vote. While you have valid arguments, this particular idea is not serious.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:44:40 AM PST

  •  Actually enrollments may not be the biggest hurdle (3+ / 0-)

    ...but the final handshake between enrollee and insurer. The use of private insurance companies relies on a few essential steps that must succeed for a finale. The more states using the federal exchange the more each multiplies the numbers and complexity of those events.

    1. The "confirmed" ACA enrollment is sent to the selected insurer (via EDI) and transacts an actual successful enrollment into the insurer's systems.
    2. The enrollee receives and pays a bill.
    3. The insurer then sends the enrollee an Evidence of Coverage detailing their final contract and benefits eligibility.

    Insurers are ambivalent stakeholders that both want the new sales and want to tarnish ACA's public face so it's reasonable to expect very bad publicity during these closing processes, like shit hitting fans. The more states covered by the fed exchange the more insurance companies, each one equaling a new EDI handshake. Traditionally these standardized interchange links start out sloppy before becoming very routine. Hence, reports of failures can be expected, especially from the largest most bloviating companies (read AETNA).

    Also, the old "check's in the mail" event can be a rocky road...

  •  OUCH. (13+ / 0-)

    Yesterday I had a meeting with an insurance broker about signing me up for a new health care policy in 2014. Mind you, the whole reason I went to a broker was that I don't qualify for a subsidy on the exchange, so I wanted to know if there was anything cheaper out there off the exchange.

    Oh, my. That meeting was a revelation. No, there is definitely nothing cheaper off the exchange ... because the insurance companies (at least in California) have scrapped their old offerings and are now only selling what's on the exchange for your particular county.

    So ... because I'm over 60, my insurance premiums are set to double ... and there's just nothing I can do about it.

    Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not really "upset" about this because I'm so happy that because of the ACA people who were unable to get care before will now have the chance to do so. And what's not to like about the insurance companies being forced to take those of us with pre-existing conditions? So, yes, I've made my peace with the situation and will simply bite the bullet until Medicare kicks in ... while wincing at the hit my finances are going to take.

    But apparently I'm most definitely in the minority. In fact, the broker told me that I'm the first "over 60 not qualifying for a subsidy person" he's talked to who isn't mad as hell! A whole subset of us are finding ourselves in this situation where our premiums are doubling. And because of the lack of outreach on the ACA and the levels of confusion out there, people are understandably upset.

    And what if, as bbb says, the young-uns don't sign up? Will my premiums then triple in 2015? Man, this stuff is starting to give me nightmares.

    "Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

    by Pat K California on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:50:46 AM PST

    •  probably (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pat K California
      And what if, as bbb says, the young-uns don't sign up? Will my premiums then triple in 2015?
    •  Thanks for your detailed and (3+ / 0-)

      measured comment.  It makes me nervous though - and very worried for a whole host of reasons -

    •  so you liked your plan (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pat K California

      and you wanted to keep it. Was it a junk plan?

      •  Nope ... (3+ / 0-)

        My situation is really rather ironic. I actually lost my private insurance in late 2010 following a set of rate increases so bizarre that I actually wrote a diary about it: How to Lose Your Health Insurance in 16 Easy Years. Fortunately, the ACA was signed into law by then ... and included a little known provision that provided temporary insurance to those of us with pre-existing conditions who needed insurance right now ... not in 2014. It was called the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Program (PCIP) ... and it was absolutely marvelous. Basically, they offered me what is now called a Platinum Plan ... for half the price that I'm now going to have to pay!! I'm not kidding. It was the closest thing I could get to Single Payer ... and I loved it. All of my 9 doctors were accepted in network, as well as the two hospitals I'd have to go to in an emergency.

        So yes I loved my health insurance ... and it definitely was not junk!

        That's one of the reasons I'm resigned to my current situation. I've apparently gotten one hell of a deal for the past 3 years thanks to the ACA. In fact, my understanding is that the rates were so low that the program went essentially broke last May. So I guess it's time to pick up my fair share of the load, eh?

        "Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

        by Pat K California on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:14:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Doubling compared to what, what do you have now? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pat K California

      I'm curious if you're really going from one kind of apple to another kind of apple and the only variable is that now your Ca Individual plan for an under 60yo with the same insurer will be an Individual plan for a 60yo from within the exchange.

      •  See my reply to the comment above yours. (3+ / 0-)

        No doubt about it ... I'm definitely going from apples to apples. My old plan was for a 61 year old. But I'm also going from $505.00 per month to $1,061.00 per month!

        OUCH!

        I thought long and hard about going to a bronze or a silver plan. But with the amount of doctor care and testing I require every year for my rare autoimmune disorder, I'd probably wind up paying what I'd pay for a platinum policy down the road anyway. Bronze and silver plans are for folks without serious illnesses, I'm inclined to think. At least with a Platinum Plan, my expenses will be high, but evenly leveled out over the year ... significantly decreasing my chances of suddenly finding myself underwater with a raft of medical bills.

        "Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

        by Pat K California on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:23:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I pay $1k/month now for a Kaiser Permanente plan (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pat K California, theran

          ...on the Ca state wide pool for pre-existing plus any Individual policy for a 50yo or older - IOW, pre-ACA, uninsurable. These KP plans have had double digit percentage rate increases every year - 2014's will be 12%. KP has an insignificant rate increase for 60yo they hit the hardest at 55. I'll definitely stay with KP but I'm still shopping on the exchange in case there's a plan and actual out of pocket costs can be better. If you just look at premiums they're all cheaper but looking more closely at the copays, deducts, drug limitations and benes they're actually quite different, so variable in fact that it's a chore to predict what if any savings there will be to justify a switch. So, in or out, you and I are paying the same, it seems.

    •  did you check the exchange (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pat K California

      for the same policy?  I've read a number of comments saying they saw the same policy on the exchange for less cost.

      •  Unfortunately ... (0+ / 0-)

        The PCIP program that I've been in since mid-2011 was never meant to be permanent. All of us who were in it knew that the jig would be up at the end of December 2013.

        Like I stated above in answer to other commenters ... my current PCIP plan is comparable to the platinum plans on the exchanges ... except for the fact that it's half the cost of those platinum plans!!!

        :-(

        "Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

        by Pat K California on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:31:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I had PCIP too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pat K California

          I looked on the exchange and saw a silver plan that was quite comparable to what I had.  But I don't need it now because I was eligible for Medicare this summer.  I'm in MN in the twin city area though and our premiums are the lowest in the nation.  So that probably has something to do with it.

  •  On this? Yes, definitely agree... (8+ / 0-)

    You've finally captured the essence of this issue, bbb.

    Without that group, we've got big problems because of the way private insurance works. There are lots of new benefits and entitlements under this law on people who already have plans. Their costs are going to go up substantially if we don't mitigate that by bringing in our target group.
    Along with this:
    We need to stop caring about how ObamaCare is doing in the polls. Support for ObamaCare isn't the same thing as SIGNUPS. ObamaCare is the law. So the polls about it don't mean shit right now. What matters is that people, especially OUR PEOPLE, are getting the benefits of it.
    I have bent over backwards trying to defend this, because even though I'm not fully identified yet, I'm going to get a decent deal. Yes, even in Florida where Governor Felon isn't expanding Medicaid. But it's getting tougher to defend, the longer this drags out. I finally mailed my ID verification (copy of my DL) to the address in KY a few weeks ago. Still not updated. I called yesterday, and A) they don't see it and B) they can't delete this now fairly-dormant 1 month old app, so I can simply go through the process again, now that the website is actually working a thousand times better than it was a month ago.

    Shit's getting old, people. I have NO insurance and I desperately need it. And it needs to happen come January 1. They've still got some time, but as you note, they seem to be squandering the fuck out of it...

    This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

    by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:51:24 AM PST

  •  Obamacare is not an all Democrats plan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brown Thrasher, ChemBob, Willa Rogers

    it is Obama's and identical the early 1990s GOP plan.

    No true Democrat would have hatched this plan without at least a public option.

  •  ACA implementation has been a mess and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Heavy Mettle, Cpqemp

    a half and it could cost us what could have been a dem majority in the house if it doesn't start to come together soon. I worry about the success of ACA - because I think many young people would rather pay $95 then pay for insurance - I know if I didn't have a job i may well consider that and maybe next year when the fine is bigger think about insurance.

    •  If they can be convinced to buy Grand Theft Auto, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Militarytracy, kck, CupofTea

      which is sold out just about everywhere, then they can be convinced to buy health insurance.

      But its going to take better marketing and salesmanship than this.

      •  Couldn't agree more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CupofTea
      •  Which means Obama should go on a trip and stop... (0+ / 0-)

        ...talking about ACA. Leave it up to...er...somebody else...make Zeke...

      •  My hipster 27yo nephew line cook (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pat K California

        is definitely buying ACA and is very happy to do so.

        It's similar to buying car insurance to him -- but for his body.

        Romney's whole business was about maximizing debt, extracting cash, cutting head counts, skimping on capital spending, outsourcing production, and dressing up the deal for the earliest, highest-profit exit possible. -- David Stockman.

        by CupofTea on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:07:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe they should redesign healthcare.gov... (0+ / 0-)

        so you can steal cars and kill cops while you wait for shit to load. I was never against the ACA and I still hope it will work. But the more I hear about the devils in the detail, the more I think it really could be a disaster.

        Working class young people aren't going to like the idea that they have to pay for other people's health problems while banksters are building themselves bigger mansions and they're stuck in dead-end jobs.

        It pains me to say this, but maybe the hippies were right on this one.

        You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

        by Eric Stratton on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:17:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  If health insurance... (0+ / 0-)

        was as cheap as Grand Theft Auto, they would.

  •  You are so right, brooklynbadboy! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy, gooderservice, HCKAD

    Just got back to the house and saw this.  You nailed it here, among several other points:

    Yet I'm not seeing the kind of sophisticated marketing campaign targeting those people. Not even here in New York where we have a state exchange.
    Emphatically, yes!  Why isn't that sophisticated marketing campaign being applied to the ACA rollout? What is wrong with these people?  They've got to win hearts and minds!  Even the ignorant who hate "gummint" have said "hands off my Social Security and Medicare."

    You also nailed this:

    The President, or important surrogates, should be out signing up the crowds by the bushel, not wasting time like yesterday in Dallas thanking volunteers or here in Brooklyn doing throwaway events that don't move that needle.
    How can we get the White House to move in this direction? Let's get serious, 2014 elections are a year away--we need to get to work now!

    Thanks for following up and doing this diary, Triple-B!

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:13:52 AM PST

  •  Penalty for not having insurance is way too low (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scorpiorising, Heavy Mettle

    to be a strong motivator for a young heathy person who did not buy individual insurance in the past to now buy it.

    For them to buy can easily take 5 to 10% of their income.  As few are saving 5 to 10% of their income today this means buying insurance requires that they cut their spending on what they need and want elsewhere.

    The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

    by nextstep on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:24:01 AM PST

  •  Too many tie-wearers among their PR people (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gooderservice

    They should tap you on the shoulder to pitch in for that, triple-B.

    You know . . somebody who gets it.

    I don't negotiate with terrorists. I don't vote for them, either.

    by thenekkidtruth on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:25:39 AM PST

  •  Microsoft software rollout. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    I joked once in the comments section of a Yahoo Finance article on Obamacare's rollout that "what's everyone bitching about?  Obamacare is being rolled out on the Microsoft plan - release buggy, not-quite-ready-for-primetime beta software to the public, let them kvetch until the .1 version is released, fixing most of the problems, and move on to the next project."

    That one didn't go over well with the frothy-red conservative/libertarian crowd that populates that particular electronic jungle.

    "Life is the crummiest book I ever read - there isn't a hook, just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up." - Bad Religion

    by TheOrchid on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:29:13 AM PST

  •  Don't really understand this diary (9+ / 0-)

    The site is now able to process 17,000 apps per hour without significant errors.  It is getting fixed.  Support for the legislation is moving up incrementally.  Support among the uninsured has turned much more positive.  Medicaid rolls are being expanded.  

    Keep in mind that a federal contractor screwed up the site and the President has led the effort to bring the resources needed to get it fixed.  It has only been 3 weeks since the end of the government shutdown saga.  This man keeps more balls in the air than a juggler and does it well.

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

    by khyber900 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:31:45 AM PST

    •  Kind of missing his point (2+ / 0-)

      Especially since he starts off saying the website will be working.  You don't address his point that if insufficient young healthy people do not sign up by March, the premiums are going to skyrocket next October.  How do I know this?  The insurance corps have already stated this.

  •  Use the GD phone lines. NT (0+ / 0-)

    "We need a revolution away from the plutocracy that runs Government."

    by hangingchad on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:32:41 AM PST

  •  how exactly are the supposed to sell it in these (0+ / 0-)

    stadium gatherings? young people are realizing they have to pay for older, sicker patients coverage, plus are unemployed and can't pay for it.  The law states insurance companies can't charge more than three times for the sickest people than the healthiest people yet older sicker people use healthcare six times more. Take the penalty

    http://online.wsj.com/...

    A Manhattan Institute analysis of Health and Human Services numbers notes that a 27-year-old male will pay 99% higher premiums under ObamaCare than he would under previously prevailing market rates. One reason is that the law now limits insurers to charging the sickest seniors no more than three times the amount they charge their youngest customers. Given that 64-year-olds use on average six times as much health care as 19-year-olds, the Affordable Care Act forces young people to pay considerably more than the cost of their own care.

    Young men and women who pay a fine instead of buying coverage are not making an irrational choice. They know how little care they need and use. They also may be beginning to understand that the high cost of their plans reflects the redistribution of their wealth to older people and a bunch of mandated services that don't make sense for them.

  •  Why your fears are overblown (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deep Texan, CupofTea, ybruti

    Signing up for Obamacare is not optional. It is mandatory, it is law. Once the process for signing up is working properly, young people will sign up. They don't have a viable option not to. They are required by law to do so.

    Just as it was the law that all adult males had to sign up for the draft at age 18, and thus nearly all adult males did so, so will people in this key demographic as well as all others sign up for Obamacare too.  Just as it is law that all citizens file a tax return and thus nearly all do, so will young people and everyone else sign up for health insurance.

    People in this country may not like mandates very much, but by and large we are a pretty law abiding lot. They will sign up eventually. There is no reason to panic.

    "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

    by Phil In Denver on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:42:14 AM PST

    •  The penalty for not doing so, (6+ / 0-)

      in many cases will be a lot cheaper than buying a plan. You don't get that? The mandate end of this was deliberately weak  so that it could pass.

      We can't use the stick end of this. The sales pitch has to be all carrot.

      •  That's true but (0+ / 0-)

        very few people will make that calculation. Only those who actually know it, probably less than 20 percent will even consider the notion of paying the fine instead of getting the coverage. Most young people want to participate.

        "crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government" -Thomas Jefferson

        by Phil In Denver on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 03:04:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are there polls on that? (0+ / 0-)

          The young people wanting to participate I mean.

          Because I haven't seen very much excitement from "young people" in general. Certainly from folks who have preexisting conditions and are young, but most people I've met either don't really care or are miffed about the mandate.

          I'm not sure I know anyone who was excited. Even folks who need insurance aren't signed up yet so they have nothing to really be excited about. I'd bet a lot of people won't bother given the low fines right now. The mandate lacks an urgency that other laws do. It'll be a slow roll out unless the president really pushes it. Remember, no one will actually have to pay the fine until they pay their 2014 taxes, so it's still about a year and a half away, depending on when they file.

          And the tax part of it is where I'm really worried about the roll out. Having web site problems is a somewhat regular thing, and while they should have done better people will forgive them for that. If 20 million people have to deal with the fine on their taxes, including figuring out what info they need to send in to prove they had insurance for the right amount of time or whatever, then it's going to be brutal in November, absolutely brutal.

  •  And the hits will just keep on coming. One wonders (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kickemout

    what the plan is to manage these realities:

    1. Insurers will use signup data starting in mid-2014 to update their 2015 exchange offerings. Without the younger cohort, those premiums will go up.

    2. Although the employer mandate delay doesn't actually expire until after the 2014 election, insurers will start cancelling employer provided policies prior to it. The administration itself forecast (p 34553) ]PDF]that from 39% (low est) to 69% (high est) of employer-provided plans would have to be cancelled because of the ACA, whether folk like them or not.

    3. Employers are already beginning to adjust to the scheduled 2018 "Cadillac policy" tax, and these adjustments, in the form of reduced benefits, will accelerate as employers seek to avoid the tax.

  •  BBB - Agree with the message, not the example... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CupofTea, ybruti

    YES, Obamacare, Obama, Congressional Dems, and Progressives ALL need to be pushing for Obamacare signup and success.  Agreed 100%.

    BUT the population risk posed by "sick" people signing up in a greater ratio than "healthy" young people is NOT an urgent or even a near term issue. Obamacare is NOT facing a near term population risk meltdown of signing up too many "sick" people. In fact, it is only a long term risk - that will play out over 20+ years.  And there will be many, many other factors impacting the success or failure of Obamacare over that time.  

    The primary factor in healthcare cost is the doubling (40M to 80M) of our boomer senior population by 2030. All old, all medically expensive.  Now THAT is something to get worked up over.  And it is double the number of uninsured potential Obamacare recipients.

    Given this perspective, all I want Obamacare to do is:

    a) Get the damn website working.

    b) Get anyone possible enrolled. Give us your sick, your tired, your pre-existing conditions, your poor, your homeless, your chronic conditions - sign 'em all up. All of them.  NOW.  

    That will be the near term and critical success of Obamacare.  

    Getting. People. Healthcare.

    Saving lives, saving families, saving homes. These will be the personal, heart-wrenching stories that will turn the tide.  

    •  As a policy matter, you're right. But politically, (5+ / 0-)

      you're not right. The thing i've got my eye on is projections from the Congresssional Budget Office round 2015. So, if we don't sign up the healthy and young, the projections for the deficit will start to look extremely shitty. That will cause a political problem that leads to a weakened position in 2016. In the even more nearer term, meeting the signup targets, or at least getting close, is a measure of our ability to govern. Nasty cost projections and premium increases as a result of the sick will only cripple our ability to keep hold of government. And make no mistake, if we don't keep hold of government, its over for Obamacare.

      So, as a policy matter you are right. But as a political argument matter, I'm right.

    •  Trouble is, that will last until next October. (0+ / 0-)

      When the insurance corps issue renewal notices.  These renewal notices being based on the enrollment demographics they see in April 2014.

    •  What will turn the tide is when a suburban mom (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CupofTea, Code Monkey, Phoenix Woman

      tells another suburban mom what a great deal the ACA is for her family.  If it just signs up the poor and the sick, the middle class won't pay taxes to support it.  That's why I believed Medicare for All was the answer even if they had to phase that in and charge those under 65 higher premiums.  Americans have to believe it is more like Medicare than Medicaid.

    •  Not all of the Medicare population is sick. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman

      In fact, as they say about centenarians, it's more true that "the older you are, the healthier you've been."

      The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

      by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:38:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rachel Maddow focused on the ACA last night... (8+ / 0-)

    ...and had a quite interesting...and different take: She noted that, with all of the talk about the healthcare.gov website rollout being a disaster, the national news stories about insurance companies allegedly "canceling" policies, the high profile Congressional hearings and Republicans' ongoing efforts to do everything they can to sabatoge and kill off Obamacare...public opinion for Obamacare has actually...increased a bit over the past month.

    She attributed that to local news media coverage versus national coverage. In addition to the national news media coverage, there are, apparently, a lot of stories by local news media outlets about people getting affordable health insurance for the first time.

  •  Obama's team has done a pretty (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, ybruti, Phoenix Woman

    piss poor job on the rollout and for that matter most PR/Advertising matters since ACA's passage.

    That said, I truly think the web site will be fixed very soon and in just a few months all this bullshit will be history.

    The website debacle has given opponents a super opportunity to take one free kick after another, but that will become history again soon.

     

    I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

    by al23 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:05:42 AM PST

  •  My husband and I checked into Obamacare (6+ / 0-)

    We qualify for a Platinum plan but it's a HMO, and the only one offered to us in TX. The other plans are Gold plans, but the website won't allow our son to be enrolled onto it. They seem to have automatically designated him into Medicaid coverage. We want him covered under a family plan, so we are sticking with our student health insurance.

  •  Where is the First Lady? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CupofTea, ybruti, brooklynbadboy

    Getting families signed up for affordable health care seems like a natural fit for Michelle, but she's been MIA so far. They need to send her on a cross-country sign-up tour.

  •  The only good option is single payer. Call out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brown Thrasher, Willa Rogers

    for it now, not in 10-20 years.  From where we were 4 years ago to today is absolutely ridiculous.

    "It is easier to pass through the eye of a needle then it is to be an honest politician."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:48:33 AM PST

  •  This should be an action diary. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alice Olson, ybruti

    You've nailed it.

    Let's rally the troops.  

    I want this Obamacare to work for me!!  I've worked hard all my life mostly as an independent contractor without health insurance.  

    I need Obamacare to work. Excellent ideas.  

    I almost didn't click on the diary though because of its title.  I think diaries that point only to the problem (and not the solution) are a waste of time.

    But you've got action items.  Good.

    Romney's whole business was about maximizing debt, extracting cash, cutting head counts, skimping on capital spending, outsourcing production, and dressing up the deal for the earliest, highest-profit exit possible. -- David Stockman.

    by CupofTea on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:04:36 AM PST

  •  Also, the "botched" contract with QSSI continues?? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TJ

    United Health Group, one of the nation's largest and worst insurers, owns QSSI, a very key IT contractor building  ACA's central Federal Data Services Hub - the actual core of the interchange used by all state and federal exchanges and all phone inquiries and Customer Service enrollments.

    The building, the rules, and the metrics in this QSSI product is the 900000 lbs gorilla of competitive advantages and a bigger conflict of interest.  

    WTF is with this stupid decision and why's it still operaitonal?  

  •  There you go again. (2+ / 0-)

    Keep it up.

    Maybe we can have a GOP majority in the Senate as well as the House.

    Once again, not looking at the bigger picture.

  •  I've used the simple but very real analogy.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..of a basketball team. Basketball is a sport where each team has five players. It's hard enough to win the game when everyone is working together. A team.

    Image a basketball game where two or three of the players on team A decide to join team B during live action. Suddenly, it's seven against three. Team A has no chance of being successful. It's not possible.

    That is what we have in Washington. A team working against itself. A team where half of the players WANT their own team to fail. It's their number one goal.

    They're guilty of behavior that wouldn't be tolerated on the playground. Wouldn't be tolerated in youth teams.

    The best chance we have of the ACA working is if everyone works together to succeed in the end. It' ain't happening. And the roll of healthcare.gov sealed the deal.

    Money and greed won, again

    What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents—and her supporters celebrate—the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance. SAM HARRIS

    by Cpqemp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:42:53 AM PST

  •  For the people bashing the President in this diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ybruti

    Some of your criticisms of the President and administration over the messaging and management of the botched ACA rollout may be valid, but it's still to early to be making a final judgement on his signature achievement. We all would have to be making the final judgement years from now, because the success of Obamacare won't be measured out in the weeks and months ahead. So I would say lets let the administration work out those "glitches" still sell the plan and folks in the DKos community sell the plan for those not a part of this community. Again, lets hold off on judging the President over the ACA rollout. Only with time will it be determined a success or failure.

    •  you can watch people fucking up... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell, Code Monkey

      in the moment and tell them they are fucking up.  Bush's Iraq war roll out went bad pretty quickly and we knew it and spoke about it. We didn't need to wait just like we don't need to wait now to judge how the ACA roll out is going.

      I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

      by jbou on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:02:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok then (0+ / 0-)

        So let's all cut the President and administration some slack here. Let us make the final judgement years from now. Thanks for reiterating my point.

        •  no... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenbell

          if people re fucking something up you stop them from fucking it up before it gets worse. Your point is moronic and allows for things that are going bad to get worse.

          I don't see any reason to wait to fix things that are obviously broken.

          I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

          by jbou on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:18:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're entitled to your opinion my friend (0+ / 0-)

            again it's still too early to be making a final assessment on healthcare reform. The administrations' trying to deal with the website problems, they're trying to get more people signed up for coverage, so lets let them do their work. Meanwhile all of us so called progressives need to sell ACA to people beyond this community. The ACA will likely be changed over time to make healthcare in this country work better. So once again, i'll say this one last time, don't judge the ACA in a matter of weeks or months; it'll take years for this thing to become fully implemented and that's when the ultimate judgement of Barack Obama's signature achievement as well as his administration's handling of it will be determined a true success or failure.

        •  Are you concerned for his feelings? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Code Monkey

          His reputation? Is he that thin skinned? What are you trying to protect here? Critical analysis and dissent is badly needed in the democratic party. And you want to stifle it for the sake of reputation.

          •  Critical analysis will only be needed (0+ / 0-)

            when the success of this law is determined, which no one will no for sure in the weeks and months ahead. I'm not trying to protect anyone here or the President. I'm just pointing out that too many people in this diary are making the prejudgment that Barack Obama is a failed President compared to Clinton. That's an overblown and premature critic of this President his management. Let us make the final judgement in the years ahead. That will ultimately determine his success and healthcare's success.

  •  Reccing this up. The rollout has been a PR (0+ / 0-)

    nightmare at a time when I thought it would be one for the GOP.  This is a total bummer, needs full court press treatment.

  •  I agree. Well said. /nt (0+ / 0-)

    * Move Sooner ~ Not Faster *

    by ArthurPoet on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:15:08 PM PST

  •  Had no trouble at all this week (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman

    Went on the site several times, still comparing plans and making sure my son's favorite doctors were taking what he was considering. No glitches, no delays.

    Are you actually testing the site?

  •  I had to Rec this Diary (0+ / 0-)

    I have yet to figure out how and/or why the Obama WH has just a half-a$$ed communications/strategy team.  These folks have to be the absolute worse.  Besides not having an ounce of backbone about anything of substance, they seem to be basically incompetent at their jobs...No, wait...That is the Democratic establishment in general.  The one thing that I will say about GWB is that his strategy and communications team knew how to create a message, stay on message and drive it home.  The message was pure b.s., but those bozos sold it.

    Instead, we get Dems falling over them selves to figure out how best to sell out their coalition.

  •  BBB (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy

    just a thought, but the youth unemployment is still pretty high, and I'm wondering if perhaps that could be effecting the number of sign ups and not just the marketing.

    If your working only part-time or still have found a job, but have student loans perhaps that is effecting the sign up.  Plus, honestly, not everyone has a computer/internet, the cost of living is getting harder for a lot of people.  I think there are a lot of young healthy people really caught between a rock and a hard place right now.  

    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

    by zaka1 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:00:33 PM PST

  •  Where to go now? (0+ / 0-)

    I left the Party of Lincoln in 1972 at age 33 because Nixon was a liar and hated his Southern Strategy.  Now I feel that President Obama has been less than truthful. I am so disappointed in him after voting for him twice.  Everywhere I go of late like doctors' offices, auto service waiting room, etc. they have Fox News blaring...LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!  Why is Obama so evidently tone deaf?  I've never been impressed with those advising him.  In 2009 he should have been out of the gate working on the economy and JOBS.  Instead two years were wasted on the Obama "legacy" of healthcare.  In the meantime we saw the rise of the Tea Party, mostly over resistance to Obamacare and we got over half of the states get new ultra right governors and legislatures and a GOP House of Representatives.  And Obama will get his "legacy" in Wikipedia.  We Democrats should have made sure we had domination in Congress, even getting rid of the the filibuster when it would have been easier.  The Affordable Care Act would have better been a program for Obama's second term with a strong progressive majority.  Now I fear both the House and Senate will go Republican next year.  If I were running for an office I would surely distance myself from the President.  

  •  The communications staff at the White House (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greenbell

    ...has been incompetent about this and other things from day one.  The have gone out of their way to antagonize supporters and have failed to build the larger momentum that would move the admnistration's stated agenda forward.

    I don't know who they are listening to in order to structure the public communications out of the White House, but they continually come up short.  The tone deafness about the issues with Obamacare and NSA are just staggering.

    And part of the problem is that the communication is all one way---out of the White House to the media.  There has been a long-term failure to listen that has made the White House bubble more debilitating for policy than most administrations.

    Elections for President they can nail.  Downticket sucks.  And policy is in the toilet.  Are they intentionally taking a dive on some matters?

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 02:03:37 PM PST

  •  Not Botched at all (0+ / 0-)

    The roll out isn't "botched." That is the meme by Obama haters picked up by the MSM. There are other ways to sign up than the internet that are all working. How about picking up the phone? Or going to a local center where you can talk to a live person?
    I hate the ACA when compared to the single payer public system we should have, but I also hate the propaganda that says the ACA is botched just because one of the several ways to sign up is slowed down in those states that refused to participate. Here in California and the other states that are participating with their own online sign up there is no problem whatsoever. So if there is any real blame to be aimed, it is to the State Legislatures of the states that refused to join in and forced the Feds to set up the exchanges for people in those states.

    "The owners of this country know the truth: its called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~ George Carlin

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 02:14:51 PM PST

  •  You've got some good ideas (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban

    But lets get to where the website isn't an utter embarassment before trying to sign up stadiums full of people. Besides that, folks are only just now paying attention to what Obamacare offers and requires, and need time to digest and understand their options before they do sign up.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 02:23:36 PM PST

  •  Had an email last night (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, annan

    from a friend frantically asking me questions about ACA. Seems both of her kids - 21 and 26 - have lost their jobs in the past month, and now they don't know what to do about their health insurance.

    Presumably they will both be working next year, but they don't know how much money they will be making or how long they'll be unemployed.

    I imagine they'll put the 21-year-old on their plan.

    The daughter was making 50k which didn't qualify her for any subsidies (despite being not a lot of money to live on in San Francisco).  I don't think she has any idea what she'll be doing next.

    If she puts down zero income she'll have to go into Medi-Cal. If she puts down $50k she won't get any subsidy. If puts down something in between and ends up making more, will she owe a lot of money next year? I don't know what to tell her.

  •  New York Times is actually useful for once (0+ / 0-)
    WITH so much attention being paid to the troubled debut of the Obama administration’s health insurance exchanges, another alternative has largely gone unnoticed: unless you live in Washington, D.C., or Vermont, you can also buy insurance outside the exchanges — by going directly to insurance brokers, agents or company Web sites. Full Article At NY Times
  •  Put the blame where it belongs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban, Phoenix Woman

    On the GOP. Period. They have been sacking this quarterback for five years, and he is wide open for it because we are not defending him.

    The GOP has been lying about it, propagandizing about it, obstructing it, voting 40+ times to repeal it, failing to fund what is needed to implement it, and now proclaiming it failed.

    It's exactly as the president said. They poisoned it so they could say it's sick.

    STOP THIS. Stop piling on. He has been fighting an insanely strong headwind, and now he's apologizing. He should not apologize. He should take a lesson from them and defend what he is trying to do here. It is noble, it is historic, and it is the right thing to do, given the obstruction that will prevent us from a single payer system UNTIL we get rid of these Republicans. Throw the bums out in 2014. Every last one of them.

    •  Fuck blame. (0+ / 0-)

      We need this shit to work. It's ours. Blaming the GOP for it will only get us so far.

      If you're whining that it's not your fault, you're losing.

      Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
      Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
      Code Monkey like you!

      Formerly known as Jyrinx.

      by Code Monkey on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 05:52:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They're even trying to DDoS the website (0+ / 0-)

      http://www.zdnet.com/...

      Yet the website is getting better, day by day, in spite of all the tsuris and the tantrums.

      And the website's not the only game in town:

      1-800-318-2596.

      Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

      by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:39:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  ACA Roll out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HCKAD

    Yes, the post is absolutely right in several respects.  Two come immediately to mind:
    (1) Any socialized medicine (let's stop mincing words, here, everyone) advocate such as myself has to understand that, if the ACA (aka Obama) fails, none of us will live long enough to see the next effort to provide health care via a federal government program.  The ACA is by no means the program we wanted but we have to be clear about the political lay of the land.
    (2) Yes, WHY CAN'T THIS ADMINISTRATION FOCUS ON SOMETHING until it can actually be accomplished???  It's like their "jobs" focus - here today, gone tomorrow.  I don't know the answer but if Obama's advisers don't (a) understand this and  (b) don't make him understand it, the ACA will fail.  And many people will pay a high personal cost for that.

  •  really? (0+ / 0-)

    and the couple million and counting of new insured is what exactly?

    Why don't you just stop beating around the bush and just say what it seems you really want to say as you seem to have more invested in this failing then suceeding.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 04:36:20 PM PST

    •  Not enough to make the program a success (2+ / 0-)

      in the long term. If we don't get enough healthy people in the system, those newly insured people will be oldly uninsured before long.

      As for impugning the diarist's motives: Fuck that noise. Is he wrong?

      Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
      Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
      Code Monkey like you!

      Formerly known as Jyrinx.

      by Code Monkey on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 05:54:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  gods I'm so sick of my fellow so called (0+ / 0-)

        progressives parroting GOP talking points.

        You know we could be talking about how one of the largest government initiatives in decades has largely been a success despite some understandable hickups largely from GOP sabotage but no here we are talking about how the roll out is 'botched', a 'failure' all GOP talking points.

        Let me know when you're done with your need to shot yourself in the foot, maybe then we can talk, till then as you said fuck that noise.

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:51:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Whining is losing. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban, DeadHead, brooklynbadboy

          There are no points for effort in politics. Either we make this work or we eat shit for it next November and in 2016. Those are the facts.

          The fact that the work was hard will give us bragging rights if we succeed. But if we fail, no-one that loses their insurance when the system crumbles and Christie signs the repeal will want to hear our sob story.

          Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
          Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
          Code Monkey like you!

          Formerly known as Jyrinx.

          by Code Monkey on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:17:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Big problems for the self-employed and those (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy

    who are patching together multiple low-wage jobs and/or projects to make ends meet. Even worse when they work in multiple states.

    I know at least a dozen people in this category. Making too much or aren't in the right demographic for Medicaid, but not making enough for a subsidy. Smart, motivated, interesting people who are also itinerant, moving around for jobs and higher education.

    It's a relatively small subset on the individual insurance market but it's significant in the 20-something demographic. They are the ones who will be falling through the cracks in this wlidebeast of a private insurance scheme that has differing standards from state to state.

    Medicare-for-all. Period. End of discussion. Gotta make it happen.

     

    "Let us not look back to the past with anger, nor towards the future with fear, but look around with awareness." James Thurber

    by annan on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:14:11 PM PST

  •  About those healthy folks we're worrying about (0+ / 0-)

    I don't get it.  I don't get why everyone is so worried that healthy people between 26 and 40 years old will not sign up and pay for health insurance policies under the ACA.  Why are people assuming that those healthy folks who were willing to pay for it before ACA will NOT be willing to pay for it because it may cost a bit more (especially when, in MANY cases, it actually won't cost more or will cost the same for better benefits than they had before).  

    Has price alone become that critical an issue in people's perceived need for life insurance, something that will save them from probable complete financial ruin should they forego it and something catastrophic happens? Choosing not to have it at this point seems to me to be a decision bordering on radical change.  Are there that many citizens prepared to do that, do you think?

    It's not as though health insurance premiums have been cheap over the past ten or twenty years.  I've paid them, and I have felt totally ripped off by the prices.  But my point is that despite feeling that way about the prices, I was never willing to risk economic ruin by not paying for it.  

    It's just been one of those budgeted "necessities" like housing, food, clothing, car payment, car insurance, etc. I'll go without vacations, fancy meals out, newer car, new clothes, etc. in order to cover my health insurance any day.  

    Has anyone done any studies that have shown a statistically significant shift in people's perception of need for health insurance under ACA and/or their unwillingness to bite the bullet and, if necessary, pay a bit more for it?

    Uf there is no actual, object evidence of such a shift, then why are we so focused on this as a potential obstacle? Just more fear mongering?

    •  The insurance companies tell us (0+ / 0-)

      that people who are healthy don't buy health insurance until they need t or have high disposable income. That's why the exclude for pre existing conditions. Which is why we have a mandate to buy it.

      You don't believe them apparently.

  •  TALK IS CHEAP... HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT... (0+ / 0-)

    President Obama, HHS Kathleen Sebelius and other relevant members of the administration should have been making public appearances, pounding the pavements and explaining and promoting the Affordable Care Act FOUR YEARS AGO, immediately after the law was passed by Congress. The actions being taken now may be too little too late.

    Implementation of the ACA, with serious problems in the enrollment website and misinformation abounding, has been the most piss-poor production I've seen coming out of Washington, DC in a long time. As things now stand, the Obama administration is playing catch-up with the American people regarding the law. They've had four fucking years to promote and explain the ACA, and they're just NOW doing it? And the fuck-ups with the enrollment website are downright unforgivable. Seriously, a class of high school IT students could have done a better job programming the website than the Canadian Mickey Mouse outfit that ended up botching the entire effort.

    With the ongoing, persistent efforts of the Republican Party to kill the ACA by any means necessary, selling the ACA to the American public should have been PRIORITY #1. People won't know how effective and financially beneficial the new health care legislation will be until they TRY IT. Since the ACA went into effect last month, the law's supporters have been basically trying to pass the law again. The Republicans are looking for ANY excuse to repeal the ACA, and Obama's administration is handing its failure to the GOP on a silver platter, with a big fat cherry on top.

    I blame the President for the ACA enrollment fiasco. This landmark law will be Obama's legacy, IF IT IS ALLOWED TO STAND. The ACA was a tough sell in Congress, but it finally (barely) passed. The provision for the individual mandate was even upheld by the Supreme Court. Thus, its implementation should have been smooth sailing. (Yeah, right. In
    a perfect world.) Now the Obama administration is having to sell the ACA to legislators and the American people ALL OVER AGAIN. Instead of being PROactive by fully explaining the law and ensuring the roll-out  was accomplished with minimal glitches, Obama has been forced to be REactive in fixing the health care enrollment problems. And then there's that whole, "If you like the health insurance plan you've already got, then you get to keep it," fib people were assured by the President before the law was passed. What a fucking mess.

    The White House had better hope the website problems are fixed and lots of uninsured folks have been enrolled before Congress gets back in full swing (?) after their holiday vacation and takes up the budget and debt ceiling issues again early next year. Otherwise, the Republicans will have all the ammunition they need, including growing support from the American people, to bury the ACA. The Obama administration's failures regarding the implementation of the new health care legislation are legion, and they have only themselves to blame. The problems with the website are especially unforgivable and reprehensible, and sadly, something that SHOULD have and COULD have been addressed and fixed BEFORE the law became effective. Like I said before, the Republicans have been seeking ANY reason to kill or at least delay the ACA, and they no longer have to nitpick to find one. Anybody with the sense God gave a goose knows by now that even though the reasoning behind the law and the benefits it will provide for the American people are valid, the ACA is skating on some VERY thin ice right now. President Obama had better begin hoping for a Christmas miracle, or otherwise, his ACA golden goose will be cooked. Stick a fork in it, it's done. TOAST.

    BETTER LATE THAN NEVER does not apply in the case of the ACA's roll-out.

  •  Rollouts always continue. (0+ / 0-)

    If they're "botched" they continue until they're unbotched. That's what's happening now. You don't fix something by getting rid of it. All the rest is partisan jibberjabber.

  •  States that aren't participating in ACA (0+ / 0-)

    It amazes me that the media (well, o.k. so it shouldn't because the media is corporate controlled) or blog posters aren't saying anything about the states who's governors and legislators completely declined to set up a state website for the ACA or waited until the last minute. Funny, it was Republican controlled states. Here in MN, our website is working great and several thousand people have already signed up. This is all part of the plan by the Teapublicans to bring down the other side. The plan was for the states to take up the bulk of the sign ups. Kind of hard to do if there isn't a website in place. I have also heard that said states that reluctantly decided to participate are setting insanely high premium rates that are turning prospective customers away.

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