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Years ago, I attended a fundraiser for Barbara Boxer in L.A., paying $200 for the privilege.  At this fundraiser, a group of carefully placed hecklers interrupted President Obama, shouting demands that he use his executive powers to stop DADT, something he pledged to do through the powers of Congress.  At that fundraiser, he stopped to run over to Barbara Boxer to confirm she had voted against DADT and was a strong advocate of LGBT rights.

At the time, I was outraged at the disrespect and the disruption visited upon the very people fighting for LGBT rights.  Of course, we all know that President Obama did the right thing regarding DADT.  Rachel Maddow apologized for taking him to task about it right after that heinous law was reversed with legislation instead of a temporary executive order.

So, that fundraiser was one example of the right issue with the wrong advocates harassing a president fighting for their rights.  And now the very same thing has happened again.  This morning, in San Francisco, a group of well placed (better this time, as they managed to get BEHIND the president on the stage!) heckled him during his speech, demanding he use his executive power to stop illegal immigrants from being deported.  Once again, attacking the very person who is fighting daily to get CONGRESS to pass a law he can sign stopping this heinous practice.  Once again, right issue, wrong advocates.

Now, I may be spouting a CT theory here, but I find it more than suspect that hecklers with two entirely different issues, both of which are popular with Democrats, would choose to disrupt a FUNDRAISER featuring a true advocate on these two very different issues.  Methinks it smacks of set up.  How would it look to throw these champions of our own causes out the door?  Wouldn't that make Obama look terrible to his base?  Wouldn't that cause people to maybe not want to attend his fundraisers in the future?  And why would anyone suspect some other agenda for these hecklers?  What if they were, in actuality, not Democrats but paid actors to stage these heckling events?  I mean, President Obama was giving a speech about the need for immigration reform at this venue.  How does it serve that cause to heckle him there?  WTF?  Why would you denigrate your biggest advocate?  Executive orders don't fix these issues permanently.  Congress does.  Go after F'ng Boehner and Cantor and McConnell over this, not your F'ng ADVOCATES.

Anyway, here's the link.  As usual, these hecklers just made the president look good, giving him a chance to show the world that he's unflappable, cool, calm, clear eyed and RIGHT.  Stop with the heckling.  Just stop it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

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Comment Preferences

  •  Obamahaters come in a variety of stripes (11+ / 0-)

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 02:26:23 PM PST

    •  Even though there really is a vast rightwing (6+ / 0-)

      racist movement that hates his guts, it is the left that seems to have the most vitriolic antagonists against Obama. I don't read right-wing sites, so maybe what is said there is even worse than the stuff I've read at FDL and on this site. I expected that some people on the far left would be against the policies of this (or really any) Democratic president; but I think we were all unprepared for the level of hatred directed at this president by (some) people who call themselves liberals. For the most part, people on the left are more civil and polite than those on the right; but some of them are every bit as caustic and ugly as anything you'd ever hear come out of a Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter.

      •  As vile as some of the haters are here, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Little Lulu, jan4insight, mookins

        they don't hold a candle to the Breitbart/Redstate/Far Right wackpacks for pure insane hatred.
        The problem I have with them here is they influence other Left leaners and independents. Over there, it's just echochamber reinforcing those who would never vote D anyway.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:42:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm split on that. (0+ / 0-)

          I think the vile stuff people say on this site about Obama ends up turning off most people. Liberals who disagree with President Obama on some issues still think he is a good man. Those who think he is not a good man say such awful things about him that I think if anything they engender sympathy here for him.

        •  They do? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lost and Found, davidincleveland
          The problem I have with them here is they influence other Left leaners and independents.
          You know this how, exactly?

          Or do you just "have a feeling."

          I keep getting mixed signals about this.

          Sometimes they're a "fringe" that's becoming increasingly irrelevant, and other times, as implied in your comment, they're influential enough to be having a tangible impact on people who are, apparently, otherwise incapable of making informed decisions on their own.

          I wish we could settle on one or the other. One can't have it both ways depending on the conversation at hand.




          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

          by DeadHead on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:50:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  These activists aren't Obama haters. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      davidincleveland, grover

      They were asking for an executive order to stop the draconian deportatons of their relatives.  All over the country dreamers are engaged in non violent civil disobedience.  

      Obama handled it well, and the activists having made their point were calmed.  

      Daily Kos should understand and engage the passionate demonstrator as well as understand and respect the deliberate process oreinted incrementalist.  From where I stand I think a few more well placed executive orders and more Democrats at dreamer mass actions would give this movement momentum.  Nothing will push the right wing into oblivion as millions more registered voters.  And these dreamers represent one of the constituencies that will be those voters.

      •  Dreamers need to understand that an executive (0+ / 0-)

        order won't fix immigration reform.  It would be temporary and the next Republican in the White House can simply reverse it.  Obama is working daily to get LEGISLATION for dreamers.  Yelling at him when he's doing that exact work is counterproductive, insulting and outrageous.  They should be yelling at REPUBLICANS, not the guy who's doing the work for them.

        Best. President. Ever.

        by Little Lulu on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 09:28:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I dont think it's a set up (19+ / 0-)

    I think there are groups who do this, that dont really know what else to do.

    And I agree. While they can heckle the President if they want, it's not helpful. It allows the media to gleefully report a bad news story for Obama, and I dont think it really changes anything. Agree or not, Obama wasnt going to do DADT repeal by executive authority, and he wont do the same with immigration reform.

    •  I find it entirely suspect that both the LGBT (12+ / 0-)

      community and the immigration reform community would show up in a group to heckle this president about those two, completely different issues when HE IS IN THE MIDDLE OF FIGHTING FOR THEIR supposed cause.  It's both counter productive and absurd and both groups broke up into single parties, all around the venue, shouting in unison from different locations.  Totally staged.  Not spontaneous and not aimed at the right people.  Why aren't they staging this stuff at Republican fundraisers?  Very, very, very suspect.  Don't buy it at all.

      Best. President. Ever.

      by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 02:37:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see the problem (13+ / 0-)

        of course he's going to be heckled by people who don't see him moving fast enough to suit them.
        Also, the way your diary describes them, it's two unconnected incidents, several years apart, not two on the same night.

        (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

        by PJEvans on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 02:54:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  April 2010 and Nov 2013 (3+ / 0-)

          If connected, the conspirators are very patient people.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:41:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Was he actually "heckled" (4+ / 0-)

          or were these people simply making their feelings and their request known? "Heckled" is if they attack him or should out "Death panels! Granny killer!"

          Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

          by anastasia p on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:55:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, Anastasia P, heckling means shouted (4+ / 0-)

            interruptions during someone else speaking to drown them out with your own issues.  Threats do not have to be involved.  The idea is to interrupt and disrupt.

            Best. President. Ever.

            by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:33:47 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think it's any kind of setup, LL (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              grover, Little Lulu

              but I do agree with you that such interruptions are entirely obnoxious and rude beyond belief. To be clear, I feel this way about any public speaker. The one exception I've ever agreed with was the Iraqi man who threw his shoe at President Bush. I think starting a war in someone's country is a good enough reason to blatantly disrespect him.

              I listened to Obama's speech and Q&A with the Wall Street CEOs a few days ago. It was very interesting and informative, I recommend it as a well-spent 45 minutes. This was him inside the lion's den, speaking to people who have spent millions of dollars trying to defeat him. He spoke clearly and confidently. He talked off the top of his head about everything from the ACA website to Iran.

              The thing that stood out to me the most, other than how intelligent he is and how knowledgable on such a broad range of subjects (I can't imagine Bush ever doing anything remotely like this) was how respectful the interviewer and audience were to him. The interviewer questioned him but did not insult him with idiotic questions. The audience listened to his answers. Then he was asked questions that reflected the interviewer having heard what he said. It was amazing.

              No one shouted at him or interrupted him, throughout the entire event. And when it was over they thanked him and applauded him with genuine appreciation for his time and thoughts, even though he had no doubt said many things they strongly disagree with.

              It struck me at the time, how nice it was to see him be able to speak without someone doing that shit to him that I see at so many democratic events and from people ostensibly on our side. I think it's beyond annoying.

              But I still don't think it's being orchestrated by the other side. I think people on our side think or feel that doing such things is the only way to get heard. They don't seem to realize it only makes them appear childish and unreasonable. But I do think for the most part they are sincere. Misguided in my view, but sincere.

              Now one other question for you -- your diary sent me scouring the web and YouTube to see Rachel Maddow apologizing for her criticisms of the administration about the DADT repeal. I watched some wonderful, inspiring videos of the repeal coverage, a nice trip down memory lane, but I cannot find anything about her apologizing. Where did you see that? I want to check it out.

              •  Thanks for this great comment, CS in AZ. I (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CS in AZ

                believe Rachel Maddow said she was wrong to have taken Obama to task for not using his executive order to repeal DADT, but I, too, cannot find that video on YouTube.  I'll keep looking, but I clearly remember really appreciating Rachel admitting her mistake at the time.

                Best. President. Ever.

                by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 08:29:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  A 2-fer! No, Little Lulu, Anastasia P is correct: (0+ / 0-)

              From the dictionary

              Heckle
              To harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes or the like; badger.
              Synonyms: bait, provoke, needle, hector, hound.
              Not only are you committing a humpty-dumptyism with your personalized definition, you did so in a diary which smears activists with a ridiculous conspiracy label. Both of those things are a no-no in a reality-based community, and the second one is forbidden by the site rules. This diary could be reported to site admin as a ct diary which smears Democratic activists.

              Fortunately, the Best. President. Ever. understands the First Amendment better than that, as one would expect from a constitutional law professor.* I believe that understanding a legitimate cry for help when he heard it prompted President Obama to stop security from ejecting them. The fact that they were clearly coordinated with each other doesn't de-legitimize their vocal request for executive action. The fact that most activists, myself included, think such an executive action would be a mistake which would bite real immigration reform doesn't de-legitimize their desperate need either, nor should it quash their voices.

              BTW, yours isn't the only conspiracy theory out there on this issue. Some on the right are already claiming that those vocalists in the audience were planted at his orders, to give the President an opportunity to dramatically explain that he can't unilaterally overturn laws while making his point (ostensibly to security, in reality to the Latino community and their supporters) that he and those policy challengers want the same thing.

              Two conspiracy theories from opposite ends of the political universe. Nevertheless I am irresistibly reminded of the limerick about the man who boozes and the company he keeps, because in my opinion both these theories about a conspiracy to manipulate public opinion croak from the same gutter. Both are evidence-free and both are fueled solely by animus, one for and one against the POTUS.
              ----------------------------------------
              * First Amendment explanations search thread

              Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

              by davidincleveland on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 08:34:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  davidincleveland, yelling while someone is (0+ / 0-)

                making a speech is harrassing that person.  At the Boxer fundraiser, the culprits never stood down to listen to Obama's responses and they had to be ushered out.  It's ironic that the best president ever made lemonade out of those ingrates who were demanding something that would not help their cause in the end and now the righties are claiming they were planted.

                They are not helping when they yell at the man who is working daily for their cause.  Period.  And yes.  It was heckling, pure and simple.  Funny you quoted a definition that supported mine.

                Best. President. Ever.

                by Little Lulu on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 09:34:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ju Hong asked the President to help his family. (0+ / 0-)

                  Several other members of the audience added their voices to that request for help. You have lied about the nature of that interruption. You have conflated the behavior of Ju Hong with the conduct of Code Pink three years earlier, and despite the obvious differences you've decided that Ju Hong and Code Pink are co-conspirators.

                  There are three things you don't get to do on DK unchallenged; you don't get to lie about the facts, you don't get to claim the dictionary supports you when it doesn't* and you don't get to publish a ct diary about a known Democratic activist without proof of the conspiracy. Now triple down if you like. Every time you repeat that lie you further invite scrutiny from site admin.

                  You didn't seem to get the similarity of your ct and the righties ct on this event, or understand my allusion to that fact, so here is the entire poem (which I incorrectly labeled a limerick) for your edification. Just substitute "theorizes about conspiracies" for "boozes."

                  Judged by the Company One Keeps
                  by Unknown
                   Frequently attributed to Benjamin Hapgood Burt.

                   One night in late October,
                   When I was far from sober,
                   Returning with my load with manly pride,
                   My poor feet began to stutter,
                   So I lay down in the gutter,
                   And a pig came near and lay down by my side;
                   Then we sang "It's all fair weather when good fellows get together",

                  Till a lady passing by was heard to say:
                   "You can tell a man who boozes,
                   By the company he chooses",
                   And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

                  --------------------------------------
                  *It isn't a definition of the word, it is the definition. There is nothing "impertinent" about a protest, except in the minds of authoritarians and cultists.

                  Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

                  by davidincleveland on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 12:26:23 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How dare you accuse me of lying about anything (0+ / 0-)

                    on this site and Code Pink had nothing to do with the hecklers at the Boxer fundraiser I attended, so please don't spread that lie here.

                    Heckling is as heckling does and every major news organization is charaterizing that guy yelling behind Obama during his speech as heckling.  You can spin it any way you like.  He will surely not get the chance to stand behind this president ever again and I, for one, am grateful for that.

                    And is your limerick supposed to be insulting to me?  L.O.L.

                    Best. President. Ever.

                    by Little Lulu on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 03:31:54 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, and YELLING at the president is now spun as (0+ / 0-)

                    ASKING the president to help his family.  Damn.  That's a fine job of turning this into a magical, polite experience that should occur whenever and wherever this president speaks.

                    Oh and you don't get to order me around on this site.  You also don't get to threaten me with site admins.  I can publish whatever I believe needs to be published under my name and this site will take care of itself.

                    Best. President. Ever.

                    by Little Lulu on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 03:49:46 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  It's not suspect; it's ordinary dumbness. (18+ / 0-)

        A couple million people though it was a really, really good idea to vote for Ralph Nader in 2000.

        There are a lot of passionate, interested people who don't understand politics very well in this country, and many of the ones on the left have a tendency towards self-indulgence in their political activity.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:10:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree; not a setup (5+ / 0-)

      I went to an event held here about two years ago by PowerShift Midwest, a student environmental group opposing the Keystone Pipeline. One of the speakers there related how she and another student at a college in a think St. Louis decided to go to an Obama fundraiser so they could make their feelings known. They collected the money from kids on their dorm floor and attended, waiting for a break in the speech to call out "Please don't build the Keystone pipeline." They said he acknowledged them and their issue and then moved on.

      I think this is one way that advocates feel they can talk to their president. If they become obnoxious and disruptive, that's different. But it's the other side that usually does that.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:54:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  At the Boxer fundraiser I attended, they were (0+ / 0-)

        there to STOP OBAMA from speaking to those attending.  They kept shouting about their issue, no matter how he responded, until the crowd who was there to hear Obama shouted THEM down and demanded they leave.

        Why do they always attend FUNDRAISERS?  Why are they always disrupting those particular venues?  Why not attend his speeches anywhere else?  He makes speeches at corporations and schools and in front of the press.  Why not get invited to those events and start heckling?  Why ALWAYS fundraisers?  Sorry.  It's too convenient and those who oppose this president can stage these fundraising heckling events year after year.  Why not?

        Best. President. Ever.

        by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:37:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lulu (5+ / 0-)

          Hecklers choose fundraiser cause they can buy their way in, and they are usually small enough to be heard in.

          Not sure about you, but I ain't ever been invited to a school or corporate presidential speach.  In fact, only time I've seen him in person he was sitting in the limo passing me at about 40mph (only IDd him from behind by the ears, really).

          If I wanted to heckle Obama, buying my way in is the route i'd take.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:49:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  He doesn't give speeches where I live... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland

          And if it was a Barbara Boxer fundraiser, I am assuming you also live in California. He came to Oakland to give a speech, I think once, during the 2008 primaries. Since then, he's been back to the Bay Area many times, but almost exclusively for fundraisers.

          I'd heard he was to give a speech the other day in San Francisco, but that's an exceptionally rare event, and tickets aren't exactly widely distributed in a manner in which an open exchange of ideas is welcomed.

          For the most part, California is just a giant ATM machine to the national party.

          •  SixSixSix, an "open exchange of ideas" is (0+ / 0-)

            certainly not the definition of attending a fundraiser where Obama is scheduled to make a speech so you or anyone else can pay admission to shout him down and keep him from speaking at all.  That is what I witnessed at the Boxer fundraiser in L.A.  It was obnoxious, disrespectful and infuriating, especially after I paid to HEAR HIM, not a bunch of disrespectful hecklers shouting him down.

            Best. President. Ever.

            by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 08:35:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So, how do you suggest a Californian get heard? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              davidincleveland, grover

              Because, again, we played a huge role (the biggest in terms of electoral votes) in getting him elected, and immigration issues are especially important here. What do you suggest to a frustrated California democrat to have their voice heard? That's a serious question. I have no doubt he is listening to the big donors. So what about regular citizens?

              And I'm not in favor of heckling. I generally consider it to be disrespectful to the people who are seriously interested in the event, whether it's an event for someone I agree with, or someone I don't (even Bushies).

              •  I think Democrats should voice their protests to (0+ / 0-)

                Republicans, not Obama.  Period.

                Best. President. Ever.

                by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 10:30:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, okay. (0+ / 0-)

                  I can walk the streets in dark cold rainy nights, give up weekends as a delegate, donate my paycheck, make calls and get screamed at on Senator then President Obama's behalf.

                  But I can't protest to him? Only the Republicans?

                  Wow. Just wow.

                  And you say Mr Hong has no idea how our democracy works?

                  Well, despite the t-shirt, bumper sticker and poster,  this Democrat didn't sign up for the Barack Obama Fan Club. And I don't know anyone else who did either.

                  But thanks for making it perfectly clear what you think it means to be a Democrat.

                  © grover


                  So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                  by grover on Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 10:39:10 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  The blockage on this issue (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Little Lulu

                comes from Congress, not the White House. Contact your Congressional representatives.

    •  So what if it is a set up? (5+ / 0-)

      I think that would fall under the umbrella of freedom of speech and assembly, and we don't seem to have a problem with it when it is a cause we support, do we?

      Do we now suggest to outlaw political heckling?

      •  Using our own issues to heckle this president at (0+ / 0-)

        fundraisers over and over again smacks of a carefully orchestrated staging of opposition by his own base that may not actually include any of his supporters.  It's just too odd to me that two entirely different issues garnered hecklers at two different fundraisers and both issues were and are near and dear to this president's heart.  He's on THEIR SIDE, working for THEM.  Why would anyone HECKLE their main supporter?  It just smells bad to me.  Not legitimate, IMHO.

        Best. President. Ever.

        by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:40:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not sure if this comment was (0+ / 0-)

        supposed to be directed at me. As I said, they certainly can heckle if they want, whether it's a set up or not.

        I dont think it's particularly helpful to achieving their goal though.

  •  This definitely sounds like a conspiracy theory. (16+ / 0-)

    People who do things that you don't agree with couldn't possibly just have different views about politics and strategy than you do. That would be too simple. They have to be plants by the Tea Party.

  •  The problem is that deportations have increased (16+ / 0-)

    under this administration.  Without changes in the law.  So if the admin has the power to increase deportations, they also have the power to at least ratchet them back down to where they were , if not further, at the same time they 'work for legislative changes'.

    As to the other, yeah, that sounds CTish.  But probably not an important enough type of CT to get you in trouble with the admins onsite.

  •  Not likely (9+ / 0-)

    You don't get to sit behind the President on the platform if you are a paid actor. You are presumably seeing some of that vaunted "pushing from the left".

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 02:51:26 PM PST

    •  It's basically one guy in the video. (7+ / 0-)

      It's hard to see any conspiracy with one guy.

      In fact, I think that "one dude conspiracy" is an oxymoron.

      (thumbing through dictionary quickly...)

      Yup. I'm pretty sure of it...

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:20:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe he is hearing voices. (5+ / 0-)

        They could be beamed in by the bad guys and take control of his mind.

      •  Um, read the article. It states very clearly that (0+ / 0-)

        others in the audience started chanting, "No deportations!  Yes, we can!". Not one dood.  Sorry.

        Best. President. Ever.

        by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:13:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It wasn't an orchestrated heckling by a bunch of (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lost and Found, davidincleveland

          people. It was one guy and then some people offered support.

          I watched the tape twice. I don't need to read someone else digest it for me. It's very clear what happened.

          I'm a supporter of President Obama. Ask anyone here. I support the guy pretty hardcore, even when I disagree with some of his policies.

          But he's not a delicate flower. As I say below, heckling is rude. But President Obama manages hecklers just fine.

          You propound some bizarre conspiracy theory that is just absurd.  And that is what I said.

          It's basically one guy in the video
          . If others joined in to say "yeah, help him out!" it's still one guy that started it. There's no conspiracy. There is  no evidence of even a group of hecklers (an organized group like Code Pink sends forth into these events).

          So, Lulu, Sorry.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 06:50:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  grover, watching a tape doesn't let you see (0+ / 0-)

            where the other voices are coming from.  You are just hearing them in the background.  At the Boxer event, one heckler in front started shouting and another heckler on the side joined in.  When they started getting escorted out because they wouldn't stop, three other hecklers from three different areas of the room started in.  It was obviously a group who had paid to attend specifically to heckle the president and disrupt the fundraiser.  Since you and I weren't at this fundraiser, your insistence that it was just one guy who others decided to support has no basis in fact.  Personally, I think they were all together and had enough money to pay to get in and disrupt another Obama fundraiser.

            Best. President. Ever.

            by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 08:41:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  "What do we want?" EVERYTHING!! (16+ / 0-)

    "When do we want it?" "NOW!!!!"

    "What is our level of understanding of the US system of government?"

    "REMEDIAL!!!"

    Have a flagon and discuss the news of the day at the sign of the Green Dragon, or hear me roar on Twitter @MarkGreenFuture

    by Dracowyrm on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:03:28 PM PST

  •  Your argument rests on a false assumption: (8+ / 0-)

    That the hecklers understand the workings of government and politics, and are using a strategy well-suited to achieving their desired ends.

    Because their actions make no sense as an effort to advance their issues, and because the particular action they call for isn't the wisest course to pursue for their stated ends, you conclude that they aren't really LGBT or immigration protesters.

    But why would we automatically assume that people who would consider it a good idea to stand up at an event and yell at the President are smart?

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:04:47 PM PST

  •  We should only push the president leftward (9+ / 0-)

    in carefully Pre approved ways like online petitions. Never in person where it might be uncomfortable for him. It might be embarrassing to hear from advocates who are often left out of any and all negotiations. The same should be done to all the Republicans but I am in the camp that believe we have to be forceful in any and all tactics to break the bubble our politicians be one trapped in after they are elected.

    “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

    by Tool on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:06:37 PM PST

  •  There are many possible ways to discuss this (14+ / 0-)

    heckling incident, but postulating a grand conspiracy about well placed hecklers seems like a stretch.

    He's the President, he gets heckled, its part of the job.  Frankly it kinda makes me feel proud to an American when Obama gets heckled.

    Perhaps more interesting than the heckling, IMHO, is the very reasonable answer he gave the hecklers.  It strikes me that too many people think Obama is king, not president. Executive orders, even when possible, are a sucky way of doing business.

    The funny thing about thinking Obama is King, is that if he was, he could order the hecklers' heads lopped off.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:07:26 PM PST

    •  Also (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lost and Found, davidincleveland

      I don't remember this...

      Rachel Maddow apologized for taking him to task about it right after that heinous law was reversed with legislation instead of a temporary executive order.
      And can't find it on Google, gotta link for that?

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:11:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I LOVE the way President Obama responds to (12+ / 0-)

      hecklers.

      Last week, when he was interrupted by climate change hecklers, he responded:  "y'all are at the wrong speech. This is the healthcare speech. I talked about climate change during the summer."

      It was brilliant.

      And it quieted everyone down because it wasn't mean-spirited. He didn't ask for (or allow for) anyone to be escorted out (like Republicans do).

      The statement was a true acknowledgment of their concerns, but a notice that they were not acting at the right time.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:28:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  There are people on all sides who want the (4+ / 0-)

    president to be omnipotent, to satisfy all their desires. Some are well-intentioned and others are mean-spirited. That citizens rule and have obligations is foreign to their way of thinking. They prefer a savior and are disappointed when he doesn't come through.
    Republican legislators have put a lot of effort into promoting the proposition that they are mere rubber stamps of a dictator's wishes. That's so they can claim to be not responsible for negative outcomes.
    Republicans have been able to be quite haphazard about legislation because they counted on Republican executives to either fail to carry out the laws or to apply them selectively to defeat their enemies.
    We are reminded of the prosecution of the Governor of Alabama, Don Siegelman, for appointing a policy supporter to a hospital board.  Think how many Republicans could be accused of public services fraud.

    Obamacare at your fingertips: 1-800-318-2596; TTY: 1-855-889-4325

    by hannah on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:13:01 PM PST

  •  Well, at least you admit it: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Victor Ward, davidincleveland
    Now, I may be spouting a CT theory here [...]
    We'll see if your diary draws the same level of outrage often found in diaries less complimentary of the president.




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

    by DeadHead on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:23:08 PM PST

    •  Sigh. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hammerhand, PsychoSavannah

      We're mocking the idea of a conspiracy here.  

      Do you really need to start a flame war too?

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:38:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not (0+ / 0-)

        trying to start anything. Just curious about the potential reaction.

        I've become a little hyper-aware of it, having seen so many baseless claims of "CT" being made here over the last several months.

        And I'm not sure who the "we" is.

        Certainly not the diarist, the person to whom my comment was directed.




        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

        by DeadHead on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:50:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm reminded of 1993... (4+ / 0-)

    There was a huge GLB (hadn't added the "T" yet) rights march on Washington in April of that year.  What I remember most from the speeches that day was Larry Kramer of ACT-UP.  He tore into Bill Clinton pretty good, something the vast majority of speakers avoided doing. That made a lot of people uncomfortable, but the truth is, we need people like Larry Kramer pushing the envelope like that.  
    We need visible activists at the edges of the movement, otherwise, people think the center of the movement is the edges.

    •  Larry Kramer was a SPEAKER at that march, not (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight

      an observer who stood up and heckled Clinton while CLINTON was speaking.  Larry Kramer was voicing his much needed views in a public forum where he was an invited speaker.  Not the same as heckling Clinton, even though he "tore into him."

      Best. President. Ever.

      by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:20:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Heckling is always wrong (5+ / 0-)

    The people who come to a speech deserve the right to hear the speaker without interruptions from the audience. If you don't want to hear what the speaker has to stay either protest outside the building or don't come to the event. There is never an excuse that justifies disrupting the audience who has come to hear a speech. Hecklers should be promptly removed from any audience, and if they have broken any laws, should be arrested.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:36:04 PM PST

    •  Heckling is always rude. (6+ / 0-)

      I'm not so sure it's always wrong though.  And this is just.... wow...

      Hecklers should be promptly removed from any audience, and if they have broken any laws, should be arrested.
      This country still has a First Amendment, last I checked.

      As Mom says, there is a time and place for everything. I think that if more people peacefully interrupted all the speechifying leading up to the Iraq War, a lot more people might be alive.

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:47:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's my view (5+ / 0-)

      I know there is a segment of the population who just LOVE a protest or a heckling event because  it somehow energizes them or appeals to their passions.  That's all well and good.  But if I pay to attend an event so I can hear what the president (or another  speaker) has to say, I'd like to hear the president speak.  My right should count too.  

      It strikes me as incredibly rude and disrespectful to the rights of people like me  for you -- the generic heckler -- to interrupt the speaker to express your pet issue.  Chances are that I share your sentiment  on the pet issue -- but that doesn't mean I want to hear you scream it at the president.    

      Maybe I am just old school, but I have as much use for right-wing hecklers during the SOTU as I do for hecklers at any other political events.   Just have some basic respect.  Is that so hard???

      I vote Democratic because I am a woman with self-respect , who rejects bigotry of all kinds, subscribes to science, believes in universal health care, embraces unions, and endorses smart internationalist foreign policy. Twitter: @HawaiiDelilah

      by Delilah on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:48:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "My enemy's enemy is my friend, except when (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Little Lulu

    his first name is Barack." I don't think the President has done enough on immigration, or many other issues that progressives care about, either. Nor do I think the hecklers are paid plants.
    But.
    There is such a thing as giving aid and comfort to the enemy -- namely, the openly racist, homophobic, theocratic hard right. Our local supposedly nonideological media were already emphasizing "declining poll numbers," yada yada. The hecklers fail to see, or refuse to see, that the substance of their complaint won't be aired, only that they are heckling.

    "Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous." -- Molly Ivins

    by dumpster on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:58:20 PM PST

  •  Oh, I'm not surprised at all. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah

    It should be easy enough to find out if these hecklers were paid trolls.  Any enterprising reporter could easily track them down.
    My guess is that they were dyed-in-the-wool protestors, looking for a moment in the sun.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:01:38 PM PST

  •  this time they weren't white house staff? (0+ / 0-)

    I saw a bus outside with a logo: 'USEFUL IDIOTS Inc.'... currently tracking them with my gps equipment I glued to the frame, I'll let you know...

    This machine kills Fascists.

    by KenBee on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:02:51 PM PST

  •  God forbid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10

    Why bother with facts when conjecture is so much more fun. So the heckler is a Dreamer whose family is about to be torn apart by deportation. Those people are so rude.

    "The NRA says 'guns don't kill people, people do.' But I think that the gun helps." -- Eddie Izzard

    by babaloo on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:07:15 PM PST

    •  Link isn't linking for me.... (0+ / 0-)

      I trust it has some useful information?

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 04:55:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the heads up (4+ / 0-)

        "The NRA says 'guns don't kill people, people do.' But I think that the gun helps." -- Eddie Izzard

        by babaloo on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:01:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for this link, babaloo. Of course, the (0+ / 0-)

          article I linked didn't give out the identity of the guy on stage heckling the president.  I see he was born in South Korea and brought here by his parents.  He obviously likes being in a spotlight, since he appears in a documentary, which may be why he was given that great seat behind and so close to the president.  He's in this country and feels he has the right to interrupt our president and make demands of him at a private event.  He obviously doesn't understand how our democracy is designed to work.  I'm glad our president took the time to give him a brief education in that regard.  Maybe someone else will teach him some manners.

          Best. President. Ever.

          by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:55:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You know what, Lulu? (7+ / 0-)

            This is just really patronizing as heck:

            He's in this country and feels he has the right to interrupt our president and make demands of him at a private event.  He obviously doesn't understand how our democracy is designed to work.
            Ju Hong is as American as any other student there:
            he talked about how he had lived an upstanding life all the way through high school, earning a 3.8 GPA and participating in student activities, only to learn of his tenuous legal status while filling out  college applications
            http://www.nbcbayarea.com/...

             That's the point of the DREAM act. These kids have done everything right. They've lived in America most of their lives. They have American friends, American transcripts, American dreams... and yes, an understanding of American democracy.

             Hong  is

             is currently a research assistant at Harvard University and a DREAMer Advisory Committee at International Institute of the Bay Area, according to his LinkedIn profile. Previously, he listed himself as an outreach coordinator at  the Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance, a legislative intern for San Francisco and a senator at Associated Students of the University of California,
            Your belittling his "not understanding how democracy works" is beyond infuriating.  It's shameful.

            It's the kind of comment I'd expect to hear on Fox News.

            © grover


            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

            by grover on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 06:38:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm glad you're infuriated by my comment. Now (0+ / 0-)

              you know how I feel when Americans like Hong yell at my president when he's in the middle of a speech.

              Best. President. Ever.

              by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 08:48:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  He may understand how democracy works (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Little Lulu

              but he apparently does not understand how law works. The President has some leeway in how he goes about enforcing the existing immigration laws (prioritizing the use of enforcement resources for example), but he cannot unilaterally change them.

  •  What a perfect way to get impeached that would be (0+ / 0-)
  •  Are you questioning freedom of speech & assembly? (5+ / 0-)

    Seriously, political heckling is a legitimate exercise of both.

    We can debate politeness, but if you are challenging their right or the fact it might be organized political action perhaps you need to reconsider this.

    •  No, I am not questioning either. I am demanding (0+ / 0-)

      that supposed Obama supporters who would attend a PRIVATE fundraising event would actually support the man who is FIGHTING for what they purportedly are demanding.  In both instances, an executive order would NOT suffice.  DADT had to be repealed by Congress to stand past Obama's term/s in office, or his executive order could/would be reversed.  Same holds true for immigration reform.

      There is no logic, nor does it help in any way to HECKLE anyone who is working to HELP YOUR CAUSE.  And that is why I question whether these hecklers are legitimate Obama supporters or just plants to try and disrupt his purpose, which in this particular case was F'ng immigration reform!

      Best. President. Ever.

      by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 06:01:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You sound more upset... (2+ / 0-)

        ...than the President himself.

        It's kinda cute.

        The most powerful guy in the world needs Little Lulu's help.




        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

        by DeadHead on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 07:46:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Obama defended their right to speak. (0+ / 0-)

        Roll the tape.

        No, I am not questioning either. I am demanding
        You demand silence. They demand attention to a real problem.
        There is no logic, nor does it help in any way to HECKLE anyone who is working to HELP YOUR CAUSE.  And that is why I question whether these hecklers are legitimate Obama supporters or just plants to try and disrupt his purpose, which in this particular case was F'ng immigration reform!
        It was effective for both parties. Issue raised and answered.

        As far a "plants" go, a fair number of people attending such events are plants, by the White House. Seating charts are well-vetted.

    •  Sorry, but there is no First Amendment right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Little Lulu
  •  I'm not much for the suppression of speech (4+ / 0-)

    Sometimes it takes clever tactics to get your speech heard, and if it takes a bit of work and an event like this to do it, well, maybe that is what you've got to do.

    Yes Obama is the go to guy to get progressive stuff done. But I don't think it hurts any for him to be reminded of it. That's what the noisy mess we call democracy is supposed to be all about.

    Rick Perry - the greatest scientist since Galileo!

    by Bobs Telecaster on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 05:53:18 PM PST

  •  I have to disagree with the idea of planted LGBT (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nogo postal, davidincleveland

    hecklers because I met them.  They were part of a presentation at my work for LGBT Pride month last year and explained that they acted because Obama had at one time told a group that if they wanted something done, they had to bring it to his attention.  This group pointed out that after heckling the President, things happened much faster.

    I don't really agree with publicly heckling a sitting President if he's on your side.  But I thought I should provide the thoughts behind this group.

    •  Well, their tactics made everyone at that event (0+ / 0-)

      totally pissed off.  And they wouldn't stop after they'd made themselves heard.  They had to be removed from the event because they were never going to let him speak.  It was a total disgrace.

      Best. President. Ever.

      by Little Lulu on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 08:52:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The DHS, CBP, etc. are executive level branches... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nogo postal, davidincleveland

    Immigration reform is not a top priority for me, though I certainly am in favor of it. Obama has pushed for a comprehensive reform package. If Congress gave him one, he'd sign it today, I believe. That said, he is also deporting record amounts of people, and he has immense power to make that stop, simply by telling the people who work for him to stop. He did it for the kids who meet the Dream Act criteria. He's chosen not to apply that action to a broader group of undocumented, but peaceful and productive, immigrants.

    So it's not quite as simple as you've laid out, and I can assure you those people heckling him almost certainly voted for him. They're also the ones who are experiencing the negative effects of this policy. You may not heckling (I'm generally not in favor myself, if there is alternate way of being heard), but I think it is also disrespectful to tell core members of the party's base that they should just shut up and deal with it.

  •  This is pathetic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pablo Bocanegra

    More fucking loony nonsense being spouted because some moron doesn't understand there are other perspectives.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 07:28:04 PM PST

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