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Pope Francis is to be given a lot of credit for his remarks on income inequality and his emphasis on the poor. His remarks on the value and importance on the virtue of mercy has touched many hearts and souls.

Yet there seems to be a disconnect between the new Pope and the way American Catholic Church speaks and treats gay persons.

“I DON’T understand,” said Nick Johns, whose Catholic church outside Atlanta asked him to resign from his job as an organist last May, as it became better known that he had a male fiancé. “They make it clear that they don’t think being gay is wrong, but they think gay people should be celibate,” he said, accurately describing Catholic doctrine. “And now that I’ve found the love of my life, I can’t imagine God wanting me to suppress that. If God made us and he gives us the gift of love and he gave me that gift, and if he made me this way, why wouldn’t he want this?”
And this becomes the problem for a gay Catholic who does not want to lose his or her job in a Catholic institution:
For a gay person who doesn’t want to be exiled, secrecy is smarter than honesty, which is supposedly a virtue.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Gay Organists are welcome (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    varii

    in a variety of creedal faths and non creedal faiths.

    The history of the Bishop of Rome in recent centuries is defeat followed by partial reconciliation. This is another defeat and I hope that the reconciliation is certain.

    Francis ex cathedra can declare that there is a new way forward. Anglicans and ELCA have already adopted the new confession.

  •  If the Catholic church had gone after their (4+ / 0-)

    pedophile priests and bishops with the same zeal that they are firing gay teachers who want to marry, the Church's pedophile  scandal would have been over before it started. But I guess that was then....

    To write a Republican Party talking point on a policy issue, any policy issue, all you need is: a noun, a verb, and 'Obamacare'.

    by MARTinNJ on Sun Dec 15, 2013 at 02:59:06 PM PST

  •  Misinterprets the Pope's lectures. Being gay (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave in Northridge, corvo, unclebucky

    is still wrong, evil, sinful, and all that, but they shouldn't harp on it 24/7, maybe only a few hours a week or so. Don't expect much substantive change.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Sun Dec 15, 2013 at 03:03:08 PM PST

  •  It's just like the Republican governors and Obama (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    varii

    The reactionary Catholic clergy, like Archbishop DUI in San Francisco, are just refusing to listen to the Pope the same way the Republican governors are refusing to participate in the ACA. It might come back to bite them (the clergy) but I'm not betting on it. None of what Pope Francis said was said in cathedra. Thus it means nothing to them.

  •  Celibate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    unclebucky, varii

    The church wants straight people to be celibate as well, unless they are married and any intercourse offers the option for new human life not blocked by contraception.

    Most people ignore that who are straight, but it doesn't mean the church's teaching on it has changed.

    The nice thing about religion is no one makes you believe, and if you don't like the belief set of one religion you find another that is better suited to what you are looking for.

    Gay or straight the church only views sex for the most part as a means of procreating, and in the absence of that it is frowned on no matter the sexual orientation or marital status of those involved.

    •  Catechism of the Catholic Church, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unclebucky

      paragraph 2357 :

      Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
      I should further ask of Mr. Johns:
      If God made us and he gives us the gift of love and he gave me that gift, and if he made me this way, why wouldn’t he want this?”
      It could be worse, Mr. Johns; you could've been an Ephraimite, or an Amorite, or a Jebusite, or . . .
      For a gay person who doesn’t want to be exiled, secrecy is smarter than honesty, which is supposedly a virtue.
      Jacob and Esau could tell you a good one about honesty.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 at 03:46:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Procreating TO MAKE MORE CATHOLICS... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      than Protestants, than Muslims or for that matter non-believers.

      We should add to money, power, land and control: making more Catholics.

      Ugh. --UB.

      "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

      by unclebucky on Mon Dec 16, 2013 at 04:27:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I DON'T understand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Bronx59

    reflects a serious cognitive disconnect on the part of this man.  Surely, a church organist is knowledgeable about the church's teachings on homosexuality.  But, for whatever reason, he chose to ignore those until he was confronted with them.  

    It's one thing for the church to tacitly accept (or at least ignore) the sexual orientation of those who help keep the machine running, but another to be surprised when it won't reject its own doctrine.  He knew what he was dealing with, so his surprise seems rather disingenuous to me.

    As a side note, the church has historically relied upon gay and lesbian Catholics to sustain its clergy, as well as its active laiety  (choir directors, organists, deacons, etc.).  It is no surprise that the rise of the gay rights movement coincides with the decline in religious "vocations."  I was raised Catholic- including 13 years of Catholic schooling- but I knew I wanted to get away from it as soon as possible.  The church is a prison sentence for gay and lesbian people; it's a shame that this is still not apparent to all.  

    •  Well, yes and no. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gffish, unclebucky, varii, Bronx59

      There are plenty of gays in the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy with a mindset analogous to that of, say, J. Edgar Hoover or Roy Cohn: homosexually inclined, and often homosexually active, but quite happy, eager even, to persecute gays.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 at 04:40:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Catholic church looks to believe that turning back (0+ / 0-)

      ...society's acceptance of LGBT people and relationships is a matter of life and death for the organization.  

      It is no surprise that the rise of the gay rights movement coincides with the decline in religious "vocations."
      I believe you have pointed out why.
  •  Telling the truth has changed... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    Let's see, Exodus:

    16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

    Seems to me if you bear false witness against yourself, that's no problem, eh?

    The RCC on telling the truth:

    "Tell the truth that your betters want to hear, for if your truth makes them uncomfortable, you will be asked to leave."

    Yes. I see now. That's why I left the RCC.

    Ugh. --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

    by unclebucky on Mon Dec 16, 2013 at 04:23:45 AM PST

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