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On Wednesday this week, Robert Reich -- labor secretary under President Clinton -- was a guest on CNN's "Crossfire" for a segment that asked the question "who's blocking good-paying jobs?"

Again, S.E. Cupp was nothing but a huge example of why we can't have nice things.

"Robert, let me start with you," Cupp began, "I think everyone would agree that demand for jobs is greater than the supply right now. We all agree that's a problem. I think where we would disagree is on the solutions."

"You would suggest that we force employers to raise wages, force union participation, raise taxes on the top job creators and force employers to cut off hiring at 50 employees to avoid Obama care mandates. How is that a recipe for job creation?" (*Note that S.E. even wore the signature rightwing "clutch" pearls...)

Naturally, the word "force" jumped out at Reich, "Well, first, S.E., the word "force" I heard at least four times..."

CUPP: "Tell me how it's not."

REICH: "Well, it's not forcing. In other words..."

CUPP: "You want to raise the minimum wage..."

REICH: "Raising the minimum wage, we've been raising the minimum wage in this country since 1935. Raising the minimum wage is good for the country. It puts more money in the pockets of people. Sixty-five percent of Americans want to raise the minimum wage. Most minimum- wage workers these days are not teenagers. They are breadwinners. If you help them, you are helping the economy overall."

"And a lot of employers will benefit from a higher minimum wage. We know empirical studies show that. This is not a matter of government planning. This is a matter of doing what we have done in this country -- in fact, if we had a minimum wage today that was as high as it was in 1968, adjusted for inflation, it would be $10.40 an hour. And if you add in productivity improvements, minimum wage actually would be $15 an hour."

CUPP: "Still forcing employers."

REICH: "It's not forcing anybody."

CUPP: "But we can argue about that!"

Me: Yeah, that'll help create jobs, S.E.

Now that S. E. has  been given a few facts that her bobblehead can't process, let alone counter with any facts of her's time for Stephanie Cutter to hand off to the segment's other guest, Tim Pawlenty, the Republican former governor of Minnesota.

CUTTER: "Governor Pawlenty, what's your response to -- to his plan?"

TIM PAWLENTY: "this country, a novel idea. Just out-of-the-box thinking. Ask the people who actually provide the jobs."

Cupp: "Sure, right."

PAWLENTY: "Guess what? There's a consistent answer from those folks about what they want. And they basically say to government, do things to encourage me, not discourage me. Make the load lighter, not heavier. And that includes things like taxation, like energy policy, like health-care policy and more. But they're basically saying don't do things to make my life more difficult, more expensive, more bureaucratic, more inefficient."

CUTTER: "Well, Governor..."

REICH: "Actually, it's..."

CUTTER: "Go ahead."

REICH: "Stephanie, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to say that -- that I'm very proud to be part of an administration that presided over the creation of 22 million net new jobs. That was the Clinton administration."

"And one thing that we heard from businesses again and again and again was "We create jobs when there is enough demand." When consumers have money in their pockets, when you have a growing middle class. That's the issue: how to get money in the hands of the middle class..."

PAWLENTY: "I agree. I think we can agree on that part, Secretary."

REICH: "Well, the question is -- the question is how to do that."

CUTTER: "And, well, here's a question -- here's an answer of how to do that. The president's second-term agenda. And just take a look at some of this. Investing in advanced manufacturing, some of which you talked about today to create those good paying manufacturing jobs that create some of the demand in the economy."

"Reforming education so that kids graduate from high school prepared for the high-tech economy. Raising the minimum wage, which the secretary just talked about."

"And of course, job training. We know that there are jobs out there. We just don't have the skilled workforce to fill them."

"That's the president's economic agenda. There's things left out, like immigration reform. But tell me what is wrong with this economic agenda that Republicans just won't move on it?"

PAWLENTY: "Sure. Well, Stephanie, conceptually, some of those things sound pretty good. Who's against high paying..."

CUTTER: "Who's against it? There's legislative proposals sitting there."

PAWLENTY: "So how you do that -- how you do that is..."

Me: Yeah, stutter, stammer...

The conversation begins to bounce around a bit from here, from S.E. Cupp's "But my problem with the president is I simply don't trust his vision," to Stephanie Cutter wanting to get into "BridgeGate," and you can read the entire transcript here, but I'd like to highlight one more exchange between Robert Reich and S.E. Cupp:

REICH: "I know, but I just want to ask --"

CUPP: "We're almost out of time."

REICH: "I know. But I want to know what the Republican agenda for jobs is. I've asked this."


REICH: "Gingrich, I ask everybody, every Republican, what is your agenda? I can't see it? I can't hear it? Where is it? Is it trickle-down economics again?"

Time for the rightwing bobblehead to completely ignore her guest and...

CUPP: "I have a question and I want to get to it. One industry that is booming is the energy sectors, and specifically mining and oil and gas. Wage growth for that industry has risen 18 percent since 2006. That is twice the national average."

"Now, I know, Mr. Secretary, you probably want a lot of these people working in solar companies instead. But are you going to those people to take a hike, or those companies to pay less? Why wouldn't this booming industry be something that liberals and folks like you are supporting 100 percent, with things like the Keystone Pipeline?"

REICH: "No, no, no. Obviously you don't want to sacrifice the environment. I mean, look what's happening in China. They're having a booming economy, they can't even breathe. I mean, you want to -- you want jobs but you don't want jobs at any cost."

Robert Reich was far too polite during this "discussion." S.E. Cupp's only participation in the segment was tossing out rightwing talking points, and adding distractions from what was the intended topic at hand.

Most impressive was Reich's handling of having the KXL pipeline tossed at him in the last moments of the show.

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  •  Tip Jar (190+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, cama2008, a2nite, stevemb, mkor7, Halfton81, citizenx, nailbender, PeteZerria, cv lurking gf, theKgirls, Crashing Vor, Egalitare, middleagedhousewife, DuzT, NJpeach, stlsophos, MPociask, Glen The Plumber, BachFan, NYFM, Byron from Denver, Front Toward Enemy, Wino, emal, Thinking Fella, this just in, SCFrog, Powered Grace, northerntier, TracieLynn, NM Ray, Shockwave, JBL55, zerelda, Habitat Vic, Jakkalbessie, marleycat, shortgirl, dotsright, Involuntary Exile, alasmoses, bbctooman, Gowrie Gal, wader, Sylv, eagleray, CA Nana, TexDem, radarlady, MKinTN, Hayate Yagami, puckmtl, niteskolar, zukesgirl64, basquebob, DeminNewJ, Tonedevil, Pescadero Bill, liberaldregs, No one gets out alive, lexalou, sostos, ZappoDave, RunawayRose, kerflooey, cweb7, elfling, Polly Syllabic, Sun Tzu, yawnimawke, profundo, celdd, cordgrass, Hey338Too, klompendanser, Empower Ink, Buckeye Nut Schell, eeff, WinSmith, Dodgerdog1, Josiah Bartlett, jazzizbest, cybersaur, Betty Pinson, howabout, Things Come Undone, tobendaro, Raynfala, mnguitar, Unknown Quantity, AfricanLived, Lashe, Siri, Debbie in ME, randallt, flitedocnm, AllanTBG, blueoasis, kevinpdx, roses, cskendrick, xaxnar, sawgrass727, GAS, democracy inaction, rbird, DSC on the Plateau, blueyescryinintherain, WisVoter, Steve In DC, IndieGuy, Mathazar, OHdog, Nespolo, stevenwag, cwsmoke, wasatch, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, Anne Elk, sow hat, tapestry, Jim R, MJ via Chicago, CJB2012, bleeding blue, pvasileff, DavidMS, fumie, Lying eyes, TKO333, MNGlasnant, Jake Williams, Captain C, Brecht, Eileen B, trumpeter, anodnhajo, peachcreek, prettygirlxoxoxo, Happy Days, JVolvo, KayCeSF, rja, Oaktown Girl, Chaddiwicker, cocinero, RiveroftheWest, novapsyche, cpresley, Paul Ferguson, ichibon, Rolfyboy6, Aaa T Tudeattack, JDWolverton, petulans, afisher, Jeff Y, VTCC73, slowbutsure, tommyfocus2003, dle2GA, HeyMikey, Turbonerd, divineorder, Youffraita, mconvente, salmo, amparo fan, FarWestGirl, Dirtandiron, jolux, jayden, Eikyu Saha, RJH, tofumagoo, TrekBear, Lilredhead, chickeeee, Eric Nelson, SphericalXS, todamo13, LOrion, helpImdrowning, dolphin777, portlandzoo, cpr4life, Garfnobl, cablecargal, Iron Spider

    "We're from the government, and we're here to help." Diane(Desi)Sweet

    by Desi on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 05:42:00 AM PST

  •  Sorry, I seem to have forgotten... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NYFM, Shotput8, pvasileff, JVolvo, Turbonerd

    how to add a video.

    "We're from the government, and we're here to help." Diane(Desi)Sweet

    by Desi on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 05:50:41 AM PST

  •  I don't know how Reich manages ... (21+ / 0-)

    to have a polite debate with someone like Cupp. I'm pissed off just watching that.

  •  He was so frustrated at the end... (4+ / 0-)

    "No, no, no"  

    "We're from the government, and we're here to help." Diane(Desi)Sweet

    by Desi on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:03:34 AM PST

  •  Why require paying employees at all? (52+ / 0-)

    You're FORCING them to! Think of all the jobs created if businesses didn't have to pay workers! And why require safe working conditions? You're FORCING them! And why should businesses have to supply breathable air in the workplace? You're FORCING them! And why shouldn't businesses be allowed to actually own their workers, and force them into endentured servitude? You're FORCING them not to!

    Wow, the list is endless of ways you could make it easier on business - and anyways, those people should just be happy to have a job!

    To get back my youth I would do anything in the world, except take exercise, get up early, or be respectable. - Oscar Wilde

    by Fordmandalay on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:09:38 AM PST

    •  EXACTLY (22+ / 0-)

      This is why the "taxing job creators" line is so idiotic and anyone who uses it unironically and unduplicitously is a fucking MORON (that includes everyone's "special" uncle Ned and sweet aunt Bertha with the RW mailing list talking points), because taken to its limit, it means that we shouldn't tax anyone who employs people. Which is a BRILLIANT way to run a country!

      These people need to go back to sniffing glue.

      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

      by kovie on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:22:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Especially given that our "job creators" ... (17+ / 0-)

        ... (i.e. rich people) have been given their way for decades now ... lower and lower taxes, fewer and fewer regulations, more and more government handouts, less and less union power opposing them ...

        And somehow they still can't seem to create any jobs.

        •  Not all (11+ / 0-)

          At least, not all asked for and want these unnecessary tax breaks.

          Both then:

          No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar’s worth of service rendered — not gambling in stocks, but service rendered. The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective — a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.
          And now:
          Additionally, we need Congress, right now, to enact a minimum tax on high incomes. I would suggest 30 percent of taxable income between $1 million and $10 million, and 35 percent on amounts above that. A plain and simple rule like that will block the efforts of lobbyists, lawyers and contribution-hungry legislators to keep the ultrarich paying rates well below those incurred by people with income just a tiny fraction of ours. Only a minimum tax on very high incomes will prevent the stated tax rate from being eviscerated by these warriors for the wealthy.
          Obviously, these men are communists.

          "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

          by kovie on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:05 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  for those who prefer to read, not click (8+ / 0-)

            "then" is a comment from Theodore Roosevelt's "New Nationaism" speech, delivered on August 31, 1910

            "now" is from NYT Op-Ed "A Minimum Tax for the Wealthy" By WARREN E. BUFFETT -
            Published: November 25, 2012

            Both original documents are EXCELLENT, and well worth clicking through to read!

            America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

            by dagnome on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:15:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Teddy Roosevelt had his ups and downs. (0+ / 0-)

              And on a lot of topics but it's hard to argue with the points he expressed in that piece, and that was before the damn crash that mandated the laws that when repealed led to our most recent recession. We never learn. :-(

          •  Outstanding comment kovie. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest, niemann

            Those quotes will come in handy next time my GOP-loving friends post some new BS talking points.

            •  Also look up Andrew Carnegie's views (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RiveroftheWest, niemann, salmo, TKO333

              on the estate tax (as in FOR it). And, perhaps most incredibly, Bismarck's role in inventing the modern welfare state. And FDR was basically a left-leaning corporate Dem when he was elected president, to the right of Al Smith. Some of history's best "liberals" were actually conservatives.

              "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

              by kovie on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:56:08 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Conservatives who were "teachable" (0+ / 0-)

                by those nasty liberal things called FACTS.

              •  Andrew Carnegie did not believe in inherited (0+ / 0-)

                wealth, hence, why he gave away all his money to things like colleges, museums, libraries and the arts.  And with the philosophy of making all those "intellectual goods" accessible to everyone.  And not necessarily because he was a"do-gooder," (given his business practices, one could hardly make that case), but because he recognized that education and an enlightened citizenry meant a better and more prosperous society.  Would that anyone in the Republican Party of today could see this, instead of their myopic, short-term focus on worshiping the 1% at the expense of the 99%.  They don't get, the way Carnegie did, that the whole society has to prosper for the rich to do well.  So, yes, that means we are now at the point where the 19th century robber barons were better than the current GOP.

              •  Otto von Bismarck was a wily old conservative (0+ / 0-)

                Social insurance was one of the means he used to keep the socialists from gaining sway, and also to discourage emigration to America where wages were often higher, but there was no welfare system (which Prussia & Saxony had had in some form since the 1840s), people like to know if they can't work they can still get by after all.
                As one of the earliest practitioners of Realpolitik (which is largely non ideological and power based in nature with a practical and realistic bent) he brought Germany into a stable era which also through balance-of-power diplomacy stabilized Europe itself. But don't let the GOP hear you talk about the conservative nationalistic development of welfare that forms the building blocks for modern welfare, that would only end badly. Add the fact he did this on the tail end of a long depression (1873-1879 for Germany, the UK was considered to be suffering till as late as 1896), as the SI was accredited as starting in 1880.

        •  All it has gotten us is a greater divide between (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Desi, cybersaur, dagnome, mikejay611, niemann

          the wealthy and the rest of us. And the FACT is so obvious it's painful that most Americans can't see it.

          "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandies

          by Pescadero Bill on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:45:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  we don't tax them (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ellamenta, mikejay611, Desi, fumie

        we tax their profits

      •  Tax cuts=ineffective and they know it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kovie, brookela

        Venture capitalist Nick Hanauer, with a net worth of $1 billion, got in trouble at a TED Talk a couple of years ago when he went on a rant about how if tax cuts were an incentive to job creation, we'd be swimming in jobs right now. Jobs would be flooding into states like Alabama that have very low tax burdens and almost non-existent regulation, cheap labor and almost no unions. Yet they don't.

        The U.S. economy boomed in the 1950s when the top tax rate was 92%! It never got below 70% until 1981 and has continually dropped since, with the hiccup of a small raise under Clinton, which hardly effected the economy negatively.

        The rates on corporate taxation and capital gains taxes have continually dropped. The effective tax rate on Wall Street financiers is in the neighborhood of 15% now with the carried interest loophole. Where are the high-paying jobs? We've coupled de-taxation with deregulation, globalization, privatization, the entire neoliberal playbook and we've seen almost no real growth in the U.S. for 35-years.

        The country is drowning under the weight of parasitic finance which now accounts for 30% of the economy. Wall Street's purpose, far from the textbook answer of efficiently allocating capital for use in business, is to create new financial service products with outsized returns to line the pockets of the hedge funds, investment banks, brokerages and private equity firms that call Wall Street home.

        The boom under Reagan was a M&A fueled Gordon Gekko orgy in the stock market and a commercial real estate bubble. Then under Clinton we had a tech bubble in the market, a runaway dollar bubble and the beginnings of the catastrophic mortgage bubble and under both we had corporate lawlessness unprecedented and with those two short-lived booms we had the mirage of economic growth. Why we were Wal-Marting retail, the Germans were converting uncompetitive textile plants that formerly made clothes into textile plants that made fibers for high tech composites used in high value goods used all over the world.

        In Germany where manufacturing and not finance predominates, where taxes are high relative to the U.S., where consumer, environmental and labor regs are extensive, where unions are ubiquitous and workers have special rights, like the law of co-determination, which guarantees labor at least a third of all the seats on the board of directors. The workers have continued to receive an increasing share of the national wealth. In the U.S. low taxes and lax regs have done nothing to provide the same to the suffering American workforce.

        When a conservative talks about tax cuts and leaving the wealthy alone, they are not serious, they know that most high net worth individuals keep their money in very conservative investment instruments, they're not risking billions building factories to manufacture high value goods, at best they're speculating in stocks and bonds, which is not the same thing as real investment. Finance types differentiate between "real investment" and "financial investment", the rich in this country engage in the latter, change the tax code and force their money into real investment. Make financial services profits toxic. Tax them until little is left. Tobin taxes. Excess profits taxes. Like in Scandinavia or Germany!

    •  Well yeah, (7+ / 0-)

      If you consider passing laws and having elections as "forcing" people, then we've all been "forced" to have Barack Obama as our president and we've been "forced" to not dump poison into our water supplies and "forced" to not prostitute our own children.

    •  Why, that's as bad as forcible rape! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fordmandalay, Desi, mikejay611, JVolvo

      In fact, these corporations are people, my friend.  Therefore we common ignorant folk are raping these poor defenseless entities called corporations.  

      Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer. Ayn is the bane!

      by Floyd Blue on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:13:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Libertarians are very fond (12+ / 0-)

      of using the word "force". They do it all the time.

      •  many "libertarians " I've met (9+ / 0-)

        don't understand how elections work and don't believe in democratic principles.

      •  There is an apocryphal quote frequently (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Desi, sangemon

        attributed to George Washington, usually by those of a conservative or libertarian bent:

        Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
        There is no reason to believe Washington ever said this. The first known attribution was in a piece published in the Christian Science Journal of November 1902. Here that attribution is in rather fuller context:
        Too much government, civil, ecclesiastical, and personal, is the curse of the centuries. The human mind’s desire to control something or somebody besides itself results in countless forms of mesmerism, although they may not pass for such. The need of liberty, the charm and beauty of freedom, do not become apparent until the opposite condition asserts itself, and we find ourselves without these divine gifts. From the standpoint of Christian Science, it becomes evident that all the distress of government comes from the interpolation of the human, or personal element, in the divine equation of God and man.

        The first President of the United States said: "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence,—it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

        This piece goes on to talk about the evils of all forms of government and concludes with two quotes by Mary Baker Eddy (originator of Christian Science) and a paragraph of commentary:
        "The enslavement of man is not legitimate. It will cease when he enters into his heritage of freedom, his God-given dominion over the material senses. Mortals will some day assert their freedom in the name of Almighty God. Then they will control their own bodies, through the understanding of divine Science" (Science and Health, p.228).

        "God has endowed man with inalienable rights, among which are self-government, reason, and conscience. Man is properly self-governed only when he is guided rightly, and governed by his Maker, divine Truth and Love. Man's rights are invaded when the divine order is interfered with. The mental trespasser necessarily incurs the divine penalty due to this crime" (Science and Health, p.106).

        Thus, in Christian Science we find the consummation of all Scientific teaching as to government, and the responsibility of the individual; for Love alone is the Governor, and no human can interfere or intervene.

        Okaaay then...

        Regardless, despite the fact that this oft-repeated excerpt of an otherwise obscure and forgotten Christian Science tract is almost certainly spurious in its purported origin and surrounded by arguments that are generally unconvincing (at best), it isn't actually false in essence. Government is force. In a democracy or democratic republic, that force should be the directed force of the will of the people, not to be employed lightly. To the extent it operates independently or in an unrepresentative manner, it is certainly a "bad master" from a democratic viewpoint.

        However, that is certainly not the viewpoint that libertarians are coming from. Theirs is much more similar to the writer of that tract, in which people should have untrammeled freedom, subject only to their God and their consciences. No one else--NO ONE--is legitimately allowed to tell them what they may or may not do. It is political solipsism.

        My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.
        --Carl Schurz, remarks in the Senate, February 29, 1872

        by leftist vegetarian patriot on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:07:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  So true! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fordmandalay, mikejay611, fumie, Desi

      What with this: Americans Will Work for 25 Cents an Hour  - it's a freakin' outrage for the government to force businesses to pay the 9 times that much (for tiipped workers) or even more (e.g., 29 times that much for others . . . .)

    •  They had a saying in the Soviet Union: (6+ / 0-)
      "As long as they pretend to pay us, we'll pretend to work."
      . . . and that's exactly what will happen here if wages keep trending down.

      Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

      by Omir the Storyteller on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:29:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dead horse whuppin' time. (7+ / 0-)

    I call myself an electronics installer, because when I leave a site, electronic systems are installed. I call myself a record producer because, when an artist or production company hires me, records get produced.

    "Job creators?" I don't see it.

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:16:21 AM PST

  •  How DARE anyone FORCE me to not murder! (10+ / 0-)

    That's what laws against murder do, they force me to not murder anyone!

    That's against my FOunder-GiVEN FREEDumB!


    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:18:01 AM PST

  •  So I'm looking at my Yahoo mail (22+ / 0-)

    and one of the stories on the scroll was about how retailers are having such a tough time, what with the rise in online sales and all.

    Lots of ideas in the article, but the real meat was in the comments.

    Almost all the comments were, in one form or another -
    1) Hire more staff, so there are less lines
    2) Keep GOOD staff, so customers can get actual HELP when they need it
    3) To accomplish 2, PAY PEOPLE MORE.
    4) Actually have the crap you advertise, right then, and enough of it, not just a couple.

    Across the comments, that was the big thing that stood out for me. PAY PEOPLE MORE. Pay CEOs LESS, spread that out to the employees.

    The basic thought was exactly the same as Reich's - if you want people to buy stuff, they have to have MONEY. So pay them more, and they'll buy more stuff.

    It's not rocket science. But apparently it beyond the grasp of most CEOs.

    •  Isn't that what happened to Circuit City? (19+ / 0-)

      They decided to "Cut Costs" by letting their most experienced (hence most expensive) sales staff go and hired a bunch of, well, kids at minimum wage.
      Shoppers got tired of know-nothings telling them what they need to buy and the downward spiral accelerated.

      I can see Canada from my house. No, really, I can.

      by DuzT on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:29:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lots of people do research on big ticket items (7+ / 0-)

        online, but if the people in the stores were knowledgeable, they might not.

        I'd rather talk to somebody AND see the actual item at the same time. But in most stores, while the item might be there, a person who's knowledgeable about it won't be.

        That's where a store has a big advantage, and they don't seem to even realize it. If I can walk in and get solid info, AND see the item, measure it, make sure it's what I want, AND buy it right then, I might be willing to pay a few bucks more for it.

        And I might even buy it on impulse if it's not horrendously expensive or it's on sale.  

      •  yes, but more importantly ... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nespolo, mikejay611, Desi, DuzT

        the inexperienced staffers weren't good at selling the in-house warranties. Store warranties = free cash for the store because most electronic products will break within a month (and thus still covered under the manufacturer's warranty) or will work long enough that any damage can be chalked up to "wear-and-tear" which is NOT covered.

        It was the huge drop in revenue with those store warranties that killed Circuit City

        •  I really don't think so (9+ / 0-)

          I went to Circuit City a few times. I'm not a young chick, or some gamer guy. I'm an older woman, not someone who the young guys working in the store would think worth talking to.

          And they didn't. At all. Completely ignored me.

          Now, I was ready to spend some money. I work  in tech, so I pretty much know what I'm looking for when I walk in the door, just need somebody to make sure the item is in stock and get it to the register. I might have a question or two.

          But THEY didn't know that, because they never even said boo to me. Ever. They DID, however, pay plenty of attention to the younger people who came in. Who likely had no money.

          They were kids, with no experience of working retail, and no sense of who has money and who doesn't, or who's going to spend big bucks and who's not. I'm sure they got zero training as well.

          So they gravitated towards their friends, or people who looked like them, or hot chicks/guys. Totally understandable to anybody who knows anything about young people with little work experience.

          But apparently not to Circuit City CEOs and upper level management.

          FYI, this doesn't happen to me at Best Buy, which is where I most often wind  up spending money when I don't order directly from the manufacturer (like Apple and Dell).

          •  To be fair to the "kids" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest, Reepicheep

            ...they may have felt uncomfortable giving advice to someone older than them.  Of course, that's why businesses that aren't run by morons pay for experienced, knowledgeable staff.

            I don't know what's been trickling down, but it hasn't been pleasant---N. Pelosi

            by Russycle on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:28:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bull (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RiveroftheWest, Josiah Bartlett, DuzT

              Most stores have staff younger than me. If I ask a question, they should be able to answer it, or find somebody who can.

              And most tech people, even at work, are younger than me. Hell, my BOSS is younger than me.

              Besides, have you ever met a young guy who didn't think he knew more about tech stuff than some woman old enough to be his grandmother? Me neither.

              Or at least they THINK they know more. Often they do. But not always.

              However, that doesn't negate the fact that they never even ASKED if I needed any help. That should be common courtesy and the absolute minimum any sales person asks when somebody walks in. Regardless of their age.

          •  When I said that the inexperience clerks.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            weren't good at selling the in-house warranties I also included cases like yours where they didn't have the habits/training/know-it-all to try to sell them to the customer (though I'm aware I didn't make that clear.)

            Either way, that revenue stream dropped like a rock for CC

          •  I remember being in Best Buy (0+ / 0-)

            and I was looking for a wireless mouse. Well, a sales guy saw me and was over in a flash, telling me that all the brands of wireless mice work about the same, and that the important thing was how they felt in your hand.  I wound up buying the second cheapest mouse they had (I think it was a whopping twenty bucks), but they got a loyal customer.  Considering I have to drive 12 miles in traffic to get to the closest store, that's saying something

    •  I leave when lines are long, cant be alone. nt (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybersaur, mikejay611, Desi, Reepicheep

      "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

      by merrywidow on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:21:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't cupp's 15 minutes up yet? (9+ / 0-)

    She is such an obvious "Please put me on the teevee!" political hanger-on with zero contribution to anything.

    I'm sure she considers herself a "Journalist".  ....don't they all?

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:22:23 AM PST

  •  Odd how the rightwing only worries about "force" (24+ / 0-)

    when it comes to corporations.

    It's "okay" with them to force women to jump through hoops in order to get an abortion, get birth control, or emergency birth control.

    It's okay to force welfare recipients to be tested for drugs.

    It's even okay with them to force small children into janitorial work to "earn" food stamp benefits for their families, or welfare.

    "We're from the government, and we're here to help." Diane(Desi)Sweet

    by Desi on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:26:53 AM PST

  •  The answer to Reich's last question is "yes" (8+ / 0-)

    It is trickle-down economics, again. They say it in other words but they are pretty explicit about it. Make the wealthy wealthier. That is their answer.

  •  the Cupp is empty (22+ / 0-)

    She's one of the most pathetic figures on TV.  She has, literally, no intellectual abilities.  She's like a female Sean Hannity -- just a life support system for a smirk.   I'm convinced she got that job only because conservatives think she's "hot," but I don't even get that from her... she's just a sign that the "sexy nerd" look jumped the shark a while back.

    Also, her name's Sarah for fucksake.  It's a perfectly good name -- why not use that instead of this pretentious "S. E." horseshit?  The first time I saw her on CNN I was like, "Whaaaaa?" because she popped up and said what I heard as, "I'm a C-cup!  This is CNN!"  And I was like, "Why'd that woman just announce her bra size?!  That's terrible!"

    I wish Jon Stewart would go back on that show and kill it again.  Bringing Crossfire back is maybe CNN's worst idea in a long string of bad ideas.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:38:48 AM PST

  •  Makes for interesting television (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, Pescadero Bill, mikejay611

    But I learned absolutely nothing new from this exchange. I've heard it all before. It's entertainment for ratings. No minds have been changed. In fact, all these kinds of programs do is solidify opposing views. Nothing ever changes. I woke up this morning and there is still widespread economic disparity and a broken political system that is unable to respond.

  •  All of these people are into (5+ / 0-)

    "gentle persuasion." They want to be encouraged, coddled and rewarded. For what?

    "create jobs" supports the illusion that man is godlike, emulating the Creator who said the "word" and there was light. It is a mind-set that appeals to idealists, people who are convinced that "all it takes is the idea," as the ExxonMobil ad says.
    There is a certain hubris involved in the notion that man having a thought or desire is enough to effect an event in the real world. On the other hand, it is how the world works for the newborn. It utters a sound of distress and, lo and behold, sweetness flows into its mouth and it is satisfied. That this original experience does not persist throughout life somehow fails to register in some minds. So, some people go through life expecting their needs to be automatically met.
    And, indeed, because the majority of people are generous, it actually works. We support all kinds of infantile, incompetent people. But, it is possible to be too generous and to let these incompetents pretend to know-how they don't possess.
    Look at Chris Christie. What is he but a big baby who whines when things don't go his way?

    Obamacare at your fingertips: 1-800-318-2596; TTY: 1-855-889-4325

    by hannah on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 06:59:52 AM PST

    •  This is fundamental to conservative ideology (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hannah, Desi, mikejay611
      There is a certain hubris involved in the notion that man having a thought or desire is enough to effect an event in the real world.
      Most conservatives can't differentiate between their thoughts and tangible events in the real world.  If the real world is divergent, you change the real world, not the thoughts.

      This isn't stupidity.  This is a fundamental matter of theology and ideology and intellectual outlook.  It is what differentiates "us" from "them."

  •  S.E. Cupp (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    The empty-headed atheist (and I'm not sure about the last part) who was absolutely sure the "dominant librul media" is so meeeeeeean and unfair to RW Christians.

    liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

    by RockyMtnLib on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:08:40 AM PST

  •  I used to watch CNN years ago... (late 90s) (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, RichM, cybersaur, mikejay611

    I thought the deterioration of Crossfire into gotchas and talking points paralleled the deterioration of the channel in general; although, I have to allow for the possibility that maybe it always sucked and I just didn't recognize it at the time... It seems like it was better at one time. I thought CNN changed around the 2000 election; it was one of the things (along with the 2000 election) that awakened me to the realization that something was drastically wrong and led to my political awakening

    when I see a republican on tv, I always think of Monty Python: "Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke!"

    by bunsk on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:18:49 AM PST

  •  T-Paw... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    klompendanser, Nespolo, Desi, LeighAnn

    Floating one of the biggest canards in the GOP arsenal...

    this country, a novel idea. Just out-of-the-box thinking. Ask the people who actually provide the jobs.
    Oh - you are so clever Timmy.  Because we all know CEOs and business owners would just love to hire more people if the goddamn government would just get off their backs!  It's a statement that sounds smart and logical and is far from.  If owned a business and could make the same revenue with 1 person instead of 10 - wouldn't you?  Labor is seen as nothing more than a cost to American business.  And American business is all about driving down costs.  Period. Ask 'job providers' what to do and they are going to respond with self-serving ideas that maximize their profit.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

    by RichM on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:43:30 AM PST

  •  Thankfully MSNBC Gave Her the Boot (5+ / 0-)

    I used to call the show 4PM show she was on "The Fuse"... in F.U. S.E.

    Mojo?!?! What mojo?

    by xopher on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:43:36 AM PST

  •  A line, COMPLETELY left out of most discussions: (9+ / 0-)
    And one thing that we heard from businesses again and again and again was "We create jobs when there is enough demand." When consumers have money in their pockets, when you have a growing middle class
    The so-called "job creators" don't start hiring just because they have more money. They hire when there is enough consumer demand to make it necessary, and they pay workers whatever is necessary to have enough of them. This simple fact completely undercuts the entire "trickle down" philosophy.

    Give the rich all the money, and all you have is very rich people sitting on vast piles of money. Give the 99% more (not all, but more) money, and almost all of it goes into the active economy.

    "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

    by Hayate Yagami on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:48:18 AM PST

    •  Thank you for repeating this again..... (0+ / 0-)

      it needs to be repeated every single time someone tries to spew the nonsense the right is trying to sell.
      Too many of the voting public have been bamboozled into ignoring simple "SUPPLY AND DEMAND".

  •  Can't stand Cupp (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlueHeaven, cybersaur, Desi, mikejay611

    The only, ONLY reason why she's considered a 'pundit' is because of her stupid way of spelling her name. She offers NOTHING new to the conversation.

    As always, Cupp was way out of her league arguing with someone like Reich.

    Returned Peace Corps Volunteer 2005-2007, The Gambia

    by AfricanLived on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:54:51 AM PST

    •  I didn't even know where she went, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Desi, mikejay611

      and I was quite okay with that.  Tells you how much I watch CNN.

      "Well, we had to forget something or we wouldn't be plumbers." ~ Moe Howard

      by BlueHeaven on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:32:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  She got supply and demand backwards (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sure Cupp was fed her talking points.  

      She said "the demand for jobs is greater than the supply of jobs," implying (as all Republicans do) that to boost the economy, we need to give more money and tax-breaks to employers, so that they can "supply" jobs.  Republicans always frame the issue so that they can argue for more "supply."  

      But she's got it backwards.  When a buyer has too much money and a seller has too little product, you don't call it a "supply-side" economy.  Properly, "supply" shouldn't refer to the money, it should refer to the product that money can buy -- in this case labor, not jobs. When it comes to labor, it boggles the issue to say "jobs are in short supply."

      In our economy, it is labor that is in over-supply, just like everything else in the economy.  Too much supply; not enough demand.  People aren't buying enough.  The only way to get labor back to work is to increase demand, and employers won't demand workers until they start selling stuff. The only way to do this is to give money to the people who actually buy things (stuff!, products!) rather than funneling it back into an investment portfolio.  Upping the minimum wage is a basic way to achieve that.  

      But, of course, Republicans are hooked on the idea that supply-side economics solves everything.  Right now, the U.S. needs the opposite approach.  

      p.s. I do realize there are terms like "money supply," but that is way out of Cupp's ballpark.  

  •  In our modern reality... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Our economy is not growing due to middle class spending.  Our economy is "growing" due to a manipulation of money, so it is not in the best interests of those "driving" growth to share in the rewards of a "growing" economy. In order for us to do well as a nation where everyone benefits from a thriving economy we have to blow up the financial system as it exists today.  Once we do that everyone will benefit from a middle class and working poor having more spending money.

    Sorry if I repeated what anyone else said.

    "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

    by cardboardurinal on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 07:56:48 AM PST

  •  Well, he won't be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    part of the schedulers' Rolodexes any more. He was too far off-script for the Beltway Insiders Ain't It Awful Fest.

    Great Questions of Western Philosophy: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

    by Mnemosyne on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:16:25 AM PST

    •  Naah--Reich won't be banned (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Desi, mikejay611

      Despite the fact that he successfully tramples RW talking points, they will keep inviting him so that the RW hosts can "make their bones." "What? We're not RW water carriers! We had Robert Reich on our show!"

      As is so obvious from this segment, the hosts don't care what Reich says. It seems to me they just take it as another chance to repeat the talking points, including the assumption that what they believe is gospel and what Reich says is liberal lies. (Of course, what Reich says is well-considered economic ideas based on research, but whatever...)

      I wouldn't be surprised if when these types of hosts get together they give each other high fives and say, "Did you see the hurting I put on Reich? I got to say 'force' 6 times and then I cut him off. Woo!"

  •  When did CNN start mimicking Fox News? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    What is up with the bobblehead? Why are they hiring brainless noise factories?

    I don't even watch CNN any more. They've been degenerating into a joke for a while now.

    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. -- L. Ron Hubbard Technique 88

    by xenubarb on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:36:42 AM PST

  •  Like health care reform (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The GOP has no plan for fixing the economy or eliminating unemployment. They're quick to criticize and block any sensible policies to create jobs, but the ugly truth is that they like high unemployment rates.

     It keeps workers desperate, wages low and feeds the budget austerity machine by reducing tax revenues.

    Dems need to keep calling out the GOP for having NO plan to create good paying jobs.

    Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

    by Betty Pinson on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 08:44:38 AM PST

  •  While I think Reich did a pretty good job, I would (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    have liked to see him address the libertarian elephant in the room.  It would have been great to see him critique her use of the word "force" and get her say whether she believes the government has the right to set standards for anything or not.  If so, stop calling a wage floor force, and if not, admit that you belong to a school of thought that has no interest in solving any problems whatsoever.

    We agree...that "anything which dominates the life of the community should be owned by the community." That is the basis upon which we believe there should be government ownership of monopolistic enterprises. -Tommy Douglas

    by RabbleON on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 09:18:47 AM PST

  •  S.E. Cupp, like so many other "conservatives," (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    can't seem to conceptualize the law in any terms other than "I'm being forced....."

    And for some reason always pronounces the President's last name as if it were a 7-syllable word.

  •  I certainly love the things (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    that Reich had to say but the problem is that folks like him get talked over and interrupted.  To the average uneducated viewer, they hear blah, blah, blah.

    I see diary after diary celebrating when someone stands up to the Fox bobbleheads intellectually but when I actually click on videos I see little to celebrate because those fucking hosts are allowed to continue to be demeaning and rude.

    I'll begin celebrating the day when the country is so fed up with them that someone like Reich is allowed to actually let out the pent up rage that you know burns within him and he or she scares the hell out of the interviewer or embarrasses them enough that they're too intimidated to cut them off or talk over them.

    We need Democrats and Progressives to stop being polite when these hosts and guests use this tactic.  A few loud "Excuse me I'm speaking!  If you don't want my opinion, stop asking me on this piece of crap show!" times and I'll bet the country would start cheering collectively.

  •  To an economy, the flow (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, catilinus

    of money is paramount.  To a business, the accumulation of money is paramount.  The economy is shot because money is not flowing.  It's stuck in the banks and large companies.  How long before businesses/banks realize they have to put money back into the economy for their own survival - whether through taxation, minimum wage increase, public works, etc?

    Wall St. is just a big rip off game seeing how much they can steal from each other.  There is no actual investment to foster business because there is no flow of money.  How can you expect a business to make its return on investment when the potential cash flow is not there?  Its market is dead.

    When the money starts flowing again, due to demand of good and services, business have to start hiring in order to meet demand.  When the masses, as Robert indicates as the middle class, have no money, the whole ecosystem withers.

    An economist looks out for the ecosystem.  A businessman looks out for the organism.  This whole issue is analogous (and related) to the climate change issue.  

    •  You are very right about this. (0+ / 0-)

      "When the masses, as Robert indicates as the middle class, have no money, the whole ecosystem withers."

      Welcome from the DK Partners & Mentors Team. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Knowledge Base or from the New Diarists Resources Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

      The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

      by catilinus on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 01:09:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "There are Two Seas in Galilee" (0+ / 0-)

      This spiritually astute song by Sue Riley, Music Director of Unity Church of Clearwater, Florida, uses the two lakes on the Jordan river to make this economic AND spiritual point.

      Her lyrics compare the Sea of Galilee, with which all Bible readers are familiar, with the Dead Sea, drawing a parallel with human soul attitudes, and the circulation of a market economy.  The Sea of Galilee is fed by the streams from the mountains and empties into the Jordan, and because it has an inflow and an outflow, it is fertile, full of life, including a great many fish, and the storms arising on its surface water the surrounding shorelands and make them fertile also.  But the Dead Sea, fed by the Jordan, has no outlet except evaporation, and over many centuries has built up a level of salt that is toxic to almost all life, hence the name Dead Sea.

      Of course, in the case of these two lakes, the reasons for their behavior are based in natural causes, physics, geology, etc.  But when PEOPLE act like the first lake, giving and receiving love, service, and material wealth, they are ultimately prospered; while acting like the second lake, taking but not giving back or passing on the good, they accumulate toxic attitudes like hate along with the money and goods.  Even people who do not have much, but give freely, are spiritually healthier than those who have a great deal, but are owned by their possessions.

      The actual lyrics and music, as sung by Ms. Riley herself, are very moving, and ought to be played to the hateful, greed-possessed souls in the right wing "news" media.  The lyrics can be read, and the music recordings can be purchased, on her web site, (this is not a paid commercial, just a testimonial from a friend and admirer).

  •  Cupperblare shouldn't even draw minimum wage (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    based on her (lack of) job performance. Shows like Crossfire are the bane of American politics. For the most part they are simply parroting one sides talking points against the other.  I can't stand the vapidity of CNN or the willful ignorance of FOX. MSNBC is good for politics and opinion but weak on straight reporting.  For straight news reporting, Al Jazeera America blows away the competition. It's difficult to watch at times though after being desensitized to actual reporting without all of the accompanying falderal‎.  

    •  CNN has actually tried better shows (0+ / 0-)

      For example, the AC360 Later show which was a roundtable discussion format and because of the guests they had often had for longer segments (like Charles Blow, Christianne Amanpour, Andrew Sullivan) made for a better discussion and a lot less talking points for most of the show. So naturally no one liked it, no one watched, and it got canned.

      Blame the "vapidity" of CNN if you like, but in the end it's the audience that decides what stays and what goes.

  •  This show is hurting America. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desi, mikejay611

    Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

    by Matt Z on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 10:08:08 AM PST

  •  Pawlenty the Altar Boy (0+ / 0-)

    Pawlenty was governor of MN for two terms (he never got over 47 percent of the votes) and did more damage to the state than can be explained in a paragraph. Now, he is a p.r. guy for Wall Street. He acts like an altar boy, but has hooves and a tail.

  •  Adulthood (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tommyfocus2003, jayden

    Robert Reich is a civil adult and S.E. is a twit with an acid tongue, no chops and no judgement. CNN gets its just desserts with her, but she probably won't last long.

  •  The corporations and the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest, schumann

    super-rich are going to kick and scream and whine.  Taxes will not benefit them, minimum wage increases will not benefit them.  Taking time to argue with rich people about the virtues of sharing, of a well-off customer base and so on is a waste of breath.  They will fight to keep their money, and they will fight to make more money. You can't reason with that, because you're talking about what is beneficial to not-rich people, and rich people don't care about that.
    These talk shows just reinforce the notion that this is a reasonable debate with equally valid points of view.  "I don't want to," is really not a valid argument.  I tell my seven-year-old that frequently.

    "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

    by Reepicheep on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:46:05 AM PST

  •  CNN's Version Of Two Girls One Cupp (0+ / 0-)

    "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger 2003

    by kerplunk on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 11:46:48 AM PST

  •  I can't stand Cupp (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tommyfocus2003, Desi

    She's almost 35 with years in the business and she's still arguing in a way that you might expect from an undergrad studying Polsci 101.

  •  I cannot watch S.E. Cupp (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't even like thinking about her.  She is a pseudo-pundit the way Newt Gingrich is a pseudo-professor.  They both are kind of repulsive.

  •  I can't thank-you all enough... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, RiveroftheWest, jayden

    For the reception to this post. You see, I lost my job this week with C&L, so the recs and likes to this diary have been a real moral boost...a much needed one.

    Hopefully you won't get sick of me, as I will likely weigh in here often.

    This community means so much, for so many reasons.

    Thank-you, all, again.


    "We're from the government, and we're here to help." Diane(Desi)Sweet

    by Desi on Fri Jan 17, 2014 at 01:17:43 PM PST

  •  "Job Creators" my ass... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Investor and owners hire employees for one reason - so the investors/owners reap a percentage of the employees' toils.  By deifying investors/owners we head down the path that somehow they 'create' jobs.  Horseshit.  Like RR pointed out, demand creates jobs; investors/owners line up to make a buck on the situation.  They are not being nice, or patriotic, or anything else than opportunistic.  Which is fine and dandy with me; but does not make them demigods.

    Someone as experienced in WWE-style talking-head political static as RR should see that framing a mile away and cut it off before getting sucked into a no-win.  He tried, and was partially successful, in defending Demand-Side Economics, but it was already framed as though the investor-class is somehow benevolent by investing for profit.

  •  Minimum wage as "force" (0+ / 0-)
    "You would suggest that we force employers to raise wages."
    Some people would prefer that employers not be "forced" to pay wages at all. You know, like in the good old days before that commie Abraham Lincoln seized power and unleashed his thugs on the innocent plantation farmers of the God-fearing Southron Confed'racy.
  •  The Dumbing Down of CNN (0+ / 0-)

    S E Cupp ... "Poser-ette" as thinker/independent/atheist. She will be whatever you want whenever you need. Devoid of a soul. Hollow as most GOP male and female. Brutal casting CNN.

  •  The burdens that government put on business (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides, DeeW

    Maybe IF businesses, especially the large immensely profitable ones like Boeing or WalMart or McDonalds or UHG would cut the size of bonuses lavished on the suits in the executive suite and put more of it into the wages and perks of the workers, then we wouldn't need the government to enact a minimum wage law.
    And if industries like Big Pharma, Big Chem, Big Oil would put more money into quality control and demand that their operations not destroy the environment with toxic spills and other accidents that happen daily, Government wouldn't have to enact laws that mandate minimum standards and then send out people to make sure that these companies actually comply with the law.
    The problems that big business complain about are of their own making, and the solutions will remain government action as long as Profit trumps People in this country.

    •  The demand for economic regulation..... (0+ / 0-)

      ..... like socialism, does not just fall from the sky. Nor is that demand due to some sort of human depravity, either. It's the most basic of needs: the need for an economy which works for all.

      Because if the economy doesn't work for all, it doesn't work at all.

      Keep your Powder Dry and your Data Local!

      by thanatokephaloides on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 06:03:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  How Long? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    How long do we have to "encourage" business before they actually start to create jobs? We've been hearing this same song and dance for years and years, and have made major concessions to the "job creators."

    Where are the jobs?

  •  All right winger know... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Is the Reagan economic model. They know absolutely nothing about the Roosevelt economic model that propelled the U.S. into having the strongest middle class this country ever knew.

    So we're supposed to ask the fascist corporations to provide more jobs and better pay for their workers? For the second time, "yeah, right." CNN houses some of the dumbest people in America.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "" You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Sat Jan 18, 2014 at 03:45:55 PM PST

  •  Pretty weak performance, actually. (0+ / 0-)

     Of course, this was a conservatively biased show with one conservative Republican to provide "balance".  But Reich missed vital points - a surplus of demand for labor?  Employment is still above the usual background, which results from potential labor that is literally between jobs - about 4-5%.  The fact that there are long-term unemployed in the market for labor shows that demand for labor does not exceed supply.
      We Americans persist in believing we live in a frontier society. It's one of our founding national ideas. The availability of free land for new immigrants and other laborers was the reason that corporate labor was in chronically short supply prior to the 20th century.  This hasn't been the case since the closing of the West a hundred years ago.  A surplus of anything cheapens it in a free market. And cheap labor has always been in the short-term interest of the capitalist class and when they call the shots, workers will always be paid less than their share of economic growth.  So yes, employers will be forced to pay more for their labor.  It's fair, and it's a just corrective to one of the excesses of unregulated capitalism.
      You have the fact that replacement jobs generally pay less than the jobs they replace.  That's why income of the lower paid segments of the workforce has been declining, including the period of the Clinton administration, in which Reich served.  So, yes new jobs have arisen to replace the old ones, but income has  fallen.  What Reich alluded to was that it's income that matters, not jobs; and if income is falling following a downturn, you shouldn't be calling it a recovery.  It's not, and depressed wages are the reason the 'recovery' is so sluggish, especially for labor.  Raising the minimum wage would go a long way toward addressing this aspect of our growing economic and social problems.
      And finally yes, Keynesian arguments do apply in a situation such as we have now, where growth in our productive and innovative sectors is slowing down, alarmingly in my view.  According to the free-market  models championed by Pawlenty, the accumulation of capital in the class that has most of it provides the opportunity to invest it, especially in risky new production types.  In the '80s and '90s the ready availability of capital funded the growth in new information, transportation and biological technologies.  Despite the recent growth in surplus capital among the wealthy we have seen little expansion of our productive potential.  Thus, free-market models are not supported by the facts of our present situation.  My attitude towards the Keynesian vs. free market debate is that when free markets are working, so is the free market model.  But when free markets are not operating according to free market models, then those models are incorrect. In the past, when the economy failed to provide growth and human needs, Keynesian policies worked.  So, when the economy is failing according to Keynesian theory, then Keynesian policies should be tried.
       This is what he should have argued.  Not just the weak statement that somehow pro-labor policies are to the benefit of society as a whole, without any justification.

    •  A weak performance? (0+ / 0-)

       Maybe, but do this, condense all of what you had to say into a few sentences in one paragraph and lets see how strong or weak your argument is.  

        It is hardly a forum that affords in depth philosophical discussion, one does well to get a point across without interruption.

      But thanks for your enlightening input.

  •  A weak performance on Reich's part (0+ / 0-)

    From the POV of the likely viewers, Reich lost the argument in the first 30 seconds of the debate, when he failed to respond to S. E. Cupp's attack on the same grounds in which it was offered ("You would suggest that we force employers to raise wages...").

    This is the crux of the libertarian right, and goes back (in post-war US history) to Hayek's Road to Serfdom (nice cartoon version here) -- that liberty=absence-of-constraint, ergo imposition of any constraint constitutes tyranny ("forcing people").  

    Reich should have said "No, we are not forcing people to pay workers more, we are preventing them from reducing their workers to a condition of abject misery and virtual slavery."  He should have decisively refuted her simplistic political philosophy.  Not having done so, and stuttering out his own response in opaque prose, he left the impression that Cupp's argument was unanswerable. Another opportunity lost.

  •  *** (0+ / 0-)

    All you need to know about her is she claims to be an atheist but wrote a book on how liberals are supposedly attacking Christianity.

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