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I have no particular opinion on this issue, but before I even get started some rules of the road. I know strong feelings are attached to anything to do with those seven little numbers appearing in the same sentence. Friendships ruined, marriages dissolved, people often come to blows. Please, no death threats, or threats of violence. No calling others wimpy or weak or pathetic or lacking in basic knowledge.

Thanks.

I'm neither here nor there on the issue of the 06 versus 270 just for the record. Some say tomato others say tomahto. Many say the two cartridges ballistically are about the same. They both can throw a moderately heavy hunk of lead down over yonder at around or just under 3000 feet per second. Both are used for game animals in North America such as deer, elk, and moose. The 270 also can be used for Richardsons ground squirrels and the 30 06 has shot it's share of grizzly bears.

For comparison purposes a photo is probably helpful.

#1 is the 270 and #15 is the 30 06, look about the same to me.

The 30 06 does probably win the nostalgia contest having seen service in three or four of the major wars the US has been in over the past century most notably being the caliber for the M1 Garand The 270 also has it's place in history being considered as an alternative caliber for the Daisy Red Ryder

Choice between the two is more a  matter of personal preference than performance. Just the other day my 8 year old girl who is a death to Richardsons ground squirrels said to me, "Daddy it's time I stepped up to the 06, that wimpy ol 270 is just inhumane as all get out when it wounds those little varmints leaving them to suffer". I didn't have the heart to suggest the recoil might be a bit much, I mean the 270 goes "plink" and the 06 goes "kaboom!". I understand that she wants something with some energy left when it reaches the next county but I know she's not ready for that much gun.

What about you? Have a preference? For me, six of one, half a dozen of another. Some cows got horns, others don't.

Originally posted to Hunting and Fishing Kos on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:51 AM PST.

Also republished by Liberal G Club.

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Poll

30/06 or 270?

57%19 votes
42%14 votes

| 33 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (16+ / 0-)

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:51:02 AM PST

  •  Just bought a Remington 03 (10+ / 0-)

    30.06 is a mighty round for an 8 y/o to  be shooting ground squirrels with. She'll probably grow up to be a paratrooper.

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:04:49 AM PST

  •  "There's not many things that a man cain't fix (9+ / 0-)

    with seven hundred dollars or a 30-06."

     

    Rivers are horses and kayaks are their saddles

    by River Rover on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 07:27:17 AM PST

  •  #1 is not a 270 Winchester (6+ / 0-)

    It's at-best a .17 caliber, probably a rimfire.  #3 is a .22 LR.

    #12 is a 270, #13 is a 280 if my eyes don't fail me.

    #10 a 6.5x55, #9 a 6.5 PPC.

    #11 has me flummoxed.
    It's either a 284 Win, 6.5-08 (6.5x52), or a 6.5mm Creedmore.

  •  Oh, and for the record? (6+ / 0-)

    I've met Inuit who have killed Polar bear with a .22 Hornet.
    From what I was told, it's important not to have the bear crush you when it falls dead, as you've shot it through the soft palate.

    I'd personally feel better with more gun, 22 Hornet AI, or .222 Rem.

    At to the '06?
    Put a 6.5 or 7mm projectile on it, and it might have potential.

  •  The .270 Win is the best deer & elk cartridge... (6+ / 0-)

    ...because it's what I use.

    My first big game rifle was a sporterized 03 Springfield that shot well but weighed about 10 pounds (it had a walnut stock that could have doubled as a warehouse structural column).  Bursitis not being fun, I gave the 03 to my brother and bought a Browning A-Bolt in .270 Win.  

    The A-Bolt is a relatively anorexic 8 pounds.  The performance difference is noticeable in that I no longer launch slugs through the target and into the next galaxy; the 130 grain .270 slugs have the decency to do their job without the fanfare of the 180 grain .30-06 rounds I used to shoot.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by DaveinBremerton on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:31:28 AM PST

    •  Great comment. (5+ / 0-)

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:20:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I prefer a smaller round (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaveinBremerton, ban nock

      and accurate shooting to the big guns. My first gun was a .22 pump handed down from my grandfather, my second a .30-06 semi automatic I bought when I was fifteen.

      That .22 fed our family venison for three generations, then pork for another. I shot a few pigs with the .30-06 but didn't care for the level of damage, the noise, and the cost of the cartridges. I did kind of like the 55 grain, .22 caliber "accelerator" bullet on a .30-06 cartridge. But in the end I gave the .30-06 to a friend.

      After killing many hundreds of feral pigs with the .22LR I eventually moved up to a .22 magnum pump, which I consider ideal for pig hunting. Although I've never used a .270, judging by the cartridge size in your photo (if correctly labeled) I strongly suspect I would prefer it to the way excessive .30-06.

      Couldn't answer your poll, though, because my goal is to kill as many pigs as is humanly possible, even if I do prefer a "pea shooter" for the job.

      •  I wish I suffered from access to feral hogs (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, ban nock, theatre goon, DaveDC

        "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

        by DaveinBremerton on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:32:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  there was a recent (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ban nock

          tv gun show on helo-shooting them... a very sad trend

          Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

          by annieli on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:54:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  feral pigs have crossed an ethical divide for many (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            annieli, ypochris, theatre goon

            people. I'm sure that when shooting full auto 5.56 they aren't sure that every shot is lethal let alone immediately lethal. We make similar decisions with insecticide or rat poison or mechanized agriculture that plows over rodents.

            There is quite a difference between sport hunting to kill animals such as coyote hunting or hogs, and eradication such as Wildlife Services or paid feral hog hunters. I've heard the pigs are a big problem in the south. I hear of it and wish for the meat, but I don't know how much gets used.

            “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

            by ban nock on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 03:04:22 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  When the freezer is full... (5+ / 0-)

              ...there's not much else to do with it than feed the coyotes and buzzards -- but they need to eat, too.

              It's not just my freezer that's full.  Every neighbor, friend, passing acquaintance that is willing to come get it is fully stocked on pork this year.

              Some days there's just not enough time to clean and dress 'em, what with the real job and all.

              "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

              by theatre goon on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:33:32 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ah, a kindred spirit! (n/t) (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon, ban nock
              •  What are the best cuts of meat on feral hogs? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon, ban nock

                I've never tried it, but I like venison and pork, and will try almost anything.

                •  The hams and tenderloin are best. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ban nock, DaveDC

                  At least, as far as eating as chunks o' meat.  Grinding into sausage (often cut roughly half with domestic pork) will use up the rest of it pretty good.

                  Sometimes, depending (we think) on what they're eating, the meat can have such a strong odor/taste to it that it's difficult to eat.  It seems to vary by where they've been caught.  A big boar, of course, is always tougher and stronger-tasting meat.

                  We've also started putting the meat into a large cooler, packing it in ice and leaving out the drain plug.  Continue to replenish ice as needed for about three days, letting the water drain.  Removes a lot of the "gamey" taste.  At a blind taste-test, it's often hard to tell from domestic, when everything is done well.

                  "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

                  by theatre goon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 10:53:20 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I've bought it by mistake in small villages in (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DaveDC, theatre goon

                    SEAsia, and not been able to tell the difference. Afterwards I realize it did taste slightly stronger but a lot of back yard grown pig tastes different anyway. I don't buy wild meat if I can avoid it in places without hunting laws or good wildlife management.

                    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                    by ban nock on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 07:27:19 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Thanks! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    theatre goon

                    Interesting about the taste -- that makes sense (like gamier venison or elk). I'll definitely try it when I can.

                    I've made some good pork tenderloin (slow cooked at low temp, seasoned with allspice, mace, tiny bit of clove, nutmeg, cinnamon). I had to google 'ham' to confirm it = rear-leg. Came across some interesting articles on dry-curing (salt-only) Spanish jamón.

                    I also read that bayonets were first used by boar hunters, to deal with wounded boar who charged!

                    4-8 million feral pigs in the US, 2.6 million in Texas, annual harvest of 750,000 in TX alone in 2010. Their population dynamics are staggering: first litter at 13 months, 5-6 piglets/litter. So 2 hogs could in theory result in more than 20 million offspring in 10 years. Holy smoked bacon!!

                    •  To show I'm a good country boy... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Kasoru

                      ...my favorite use of the tenderloin is cut into steaks (crossways, across the grain),tenderized (just beat with the tenderizin' hammer, instead of some fancy electrified doodad), floured and fried, the drippin's made into cream gravy.

                      Served with pan-fried potatoes...

                      I can feel my arteries hardening just thinking about it.

                      "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

                      by theatre goon on Tue Feb 25, 2014 at 03:23:21 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  No, you don't. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon, DaveinBremerton

          You really, really don't. Trust me on this. Once you have seen the damage they do to the environment, all you will want is complete eradication. If you don't have feral hogs in your area, it is a blessing.

        •  You wouldn't wish such... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DaveinBremerton, ypochris, annieli

          ...if you had any portion of your living based on growing crops.

          We've been horribly damaged this year -- basically lost an entire hay crop, which means a significant hit to my income.

          "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

          by theatre goon on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 06:31:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you were in Washington State... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theatre goon, annieli, DaveDC

            ...I'd be asking whether or not you need another shooter to help deal with them.  Filipino food includes a whole lot of pork and I'd love to stock the freezer several times each year.

            "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

            by DaveinBremerton on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:32:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  At the risk of going even further off-topic... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ypochris, annieli

              ...we've been doing a lot more trapping than hunting.

              In fact, for us this year, it's much more about getting rid of the dang things than filling the freezer -- the latter is just a tiny bit of recompense for all the damage they've done.

              Half of the acreage we're trying to move them along -- putting vehicles in different places, motion-sensor light/alarms, driving through at odd hours of the night.  We'll obviously shoot any of them we see, but they're not as predictable as a lot of game.

              The other half has a couple of traps set up.  We're catching enough to keep everybody fed, and maybe keep them too wary to keep coming back.  Well, not as often, at least.

              There's no getting rid of them at the individual level -- the best you can hope is to move them to someplace they won't do as much damage.

              "No amount of belief makes something a fact." --James Randi

              by theatre goon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 03:36:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  The neighbors had hogs in the taro. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DaveinBremerton, theatre goon

            Nothing like a paddy full of potatoes if you're a pig!

            We, however, had two large rottweilers that enjoy fresh pork. No hogs near our house!

            Well, occasional parts, but that is another story...

      •  I really like the .243 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, annieli

        I inherited a Browning BLR in .243, topped with a nice Nikon Monarch scope.  I already have my .270 so I gave the BLR to my brother.  Since his wife's folks live in Montana in good deer & elk country, this gift of a rifle is not totally selfless.  On top of the Montana connection, owning the BLR encouraged him to buy about $800 in reloading equipment.  All I need to contribute is a set of .270 dies.  He's already set up for 9mm.  

        "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win". Mohandas K. Gandhi

        by DaveinBremerton on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 08:39:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Photo on Wikipeadia (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, ban nock

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/...

    Various Cartridges Left to Right:
    1) .17 HM2;
    2) .17 HMR;
    3) .22LR;
    4) .22 WMR;
    5) .17 SMc;
    6) 5mm/35 SM4;
    7) .22 Hornet;
    8) .223 Remington;
    9) .223 WSSM;
    10) .243 Winchester;
    11) .243 Winchester Improved (Ackley);
    12) .25-06;
    13) .270 Winchester;
    14) .308;
    15) .30-06;
    16) .45-70 Govt;
    17) .50-90 Sharps

    "Jesus don't like killing, no matter what the reasons for." - John Prine

    by JoeEngineer on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 10:26:15 AM PST

  •  It depends (5+ / 0-)

    It depends.  I remember reading in my youth that the largest bear ever taken in North America (perhaps a Great Plains bear) was killed by a 70+ year old Alberta Cree woman on a trap line.  She put the muzzle of her autoloader 22 in its mouth at it reared up in her path where the wood buffalo live, and pulled the trigger until it fell.  Although I never met a squirrel for which a .22lr hollow point wasn't more than enough to kill it, and that little bullet has killed some very big animals, nobody would advocate a choice of a 22lr for bear hunting.  The old advice of "use enough gun" still holds, but a lot of chamberings are more than adequate, depending on one's purposes, the terrain, etc.  

    My brother just bought his 26 year old daughter a 6.5x55 thinking primarily about deer (including axis deer that reportedly infest his sister-in-law's Texas hill country ranch).  She expects to hunt medium game at ranges of less than 200 yards.  The 6.5x55 has some very impressive performance in a package that produces mild recoil.  I told him I thought the choice was very good, but he was going to have to get into reloading - and loaned him enough stuff to get started.  His good friend and neighbor will mentor to start.  

    Which brings up an important consideration.  I think that ammunition availability and price is an important part of any such choice.  You aren't going to find a box of 6.5x55 rounds, let along a choice of bullets, at the local hardware store or even all but the best stocked sporting goods store.  That makes a difference.  I remember giving a box of 300 Savage reloads, 180 grain Nosler bullets, to a hunter at a Minnesota sports shop because he had assumed incorrectly he could buy his ammunition when he got up North (one wonders about how much sighting in that rifle got).  The 300 Savage is a good deer cartridge, but getting scarcer all the time.  

    It's worth noting that longer bullets need higher twist to be stable.  Those high sectional density, long 6.5x55 projectiles give impressive penetration, so my niece's rifle needed the 7" twist in its barrel.  If one is shooting a 30-06 with heavier bullets than about 200 grains at ranges out beyond 150 yards or so, a careful consideration of bullet stability is in order.  Most rifles have slower twist.  Maybe the legendary flexibility of the 30-06 is taken too far if heavier bullets are needed, and something in 8mm, 35 caliber, or even the 375's should be considered.  Then of course, there are the Elmer Keith "punkin roller" disciples.

    We all know that ammunition prices have risen, but for some of the less common chamberings, pricing can be high enough and availability low enough that it inhibits practice and the ability to accurately place a bullet.  That's not good.  Without belaboring the point, my local hardware store carries .22lr, 223, 270, 30/30, and 30-06 in a couple of bullet weights for the center fire rounds.  If you are going to depend on stores like mine, choosing a rifle chambered for anything else needs to be carefully considered.

    Then think about whether or not to shoot lead.  I have switched.  Here again, handloading makes the issue far easier to address.  Using the hardware store as an example, good luck finding a box of any cartridges loaded with something like the Barnes X bullets there even in something like a 30-06, let alone finding something in 6.5x55.  And, assuming that they are obtained, and the rifle is sighted in, what happens when that owner can only find a lighter or heavier bullet on the next search?  Anything that makes it less likely a hunter can consistently place his/her bullets on target, I call a problem.  

    I have selected my rifles based on what good used rifles were available when I bought them.  I sort of backed into the chamberings.  So, my deer rifle is chambered in 300 Savage because the rifle has beautiful wood, it's was in good shape, and it was attractively priced.   Deer and moose here in Maine don't get any deader than that rifle has made them.  I also shoot an 8x57JR in a drilling - so you can see why I took up reloading.  The gun's a work of art, by the way; handmade by a craftsman before WWI.  I have a couple of 22's.  I have shot a 25-06 for a while - nice gun, but all that long range performance (and the heavy barrel) didn't make much sense in the Maine woods.  I also shot a 30/30 for a while, and let it go for all the obvious reasons.  There is no one right answer to what a hunter should shoot.

  •  I think I want a .45-70 (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, ER Doc, ban nock, theatre goon

    Not for hunting. I don't hunt.

    The problem I have is, my wife stole my Marlin .45 Colt lever-action rifle. Well, she liked it so much I had to give it to her.

    What I need is a lever-action rifle (because I grew up watching westerns) with enough power that she won't want to shoot it.

    I'm open to suggestions.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:06:03 AM PST

  •  How does lead ammunition poison wildlife? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ypochris

    Lead Ammunition: Toxic to Wildlife and the EnvironmentThough excellent alternatives exist, lead ammunition continues to poison wild animals and the natural world

    Primary poisoning - an animal ingests spent ammunition (or fragments of ammunition) directly from the environment, usually when foraging for food on the ground
    Secondary poisoning - an animal consumes wounded or dead prey or scavenges gut piles contaminated with lead ammunition left behind by hunters
    Both avenues can be lethal to wildlife. For those who survive, they often experience long-term, negative effects that make them more susceptible to predation and dangers like car collisions.

    An estimated 10 million to 20 million animals die each year from lead poisoning in the United States.
    How much lead ammunition does it take to hurt an animal?
    A single ingested shotgun pellet is sufficient to cause brain damage and organ failure in an animal, resulting in inhibition of critical neuromuscular, auditory, and visual responses.[1] Lead poisoning can induce lethargy, blindness, paralysis of lungs and intestinal tract, various organ failure, seizure, and death.

    How pervasive is the threat of lead ammunition?
    More than 130 species are exposed to or killed by ingesting lead shot, fragments, or prey contaminated with lead ammunition.[2] It is estimated that 10 million to 20 million animals die each year from lead poisoning in the United States. Up and down the foodchain, animals are faced with varying degrees of risk for exposure to toxic lead ammunition, including mice, squirrels, frogs, ducks, swans, bald eagles, deer, grizzly bears, and yes, even humans.[3, 4, 5]

    How dangerous is lead ammunition for human health?
    Lead is a potent neurotoxin, for which there is no safe exposure level for humans.[6]  Individuals who consume meat from animals killed with lead ammunition are at high risk for lead exposure.[7] Several studies using x-ray imaging have shown lead ammunition is highly fragmentable and nearly impossible to completely remove from meat.[8] Those who eat a lot of animals shot with lead ammunition tend to have higher levels of lead in their blood.

    What are the alternatives to lead ammunition?
    The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has approved a dozen non-toxic shot types for hunting. Many manufacturers are inventing and developing non-toxic ammunition using the most advanced technologies. Steel, copper, and bismuth are among the most common and effective non-toxic materials and are widely available at major outfitters.

    National Park Service

    270cal_lead_copper_400

    This photo compares two different .270 caliber bullets that have been discharged and retrieved.  Notice how the nonlead bullet shown on the right upon impact has mushroomed out, but remained in one piece. The lead bullets on the left however, disintegrated into hundreds of lead fragments that are toxic not only to condors, but also to other wildlife.  Ingested lead bullet fragments may also pose a risk to human health.

    “We can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.” - Winston Chuchill

    by se portland on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 11:38:52 AM PST

    •  slow movement but in good direction (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      se portland, ypochris
      (2013) Other groups — most notably, the U.S. military — are phasing out lead ammunition in favor of lead-free, green bullets. Starting in 2010, the military began to switch to lead-free versions of 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm bullets. Advocates say this move has eliminated thousands of tons of lead from the environment.

      "If non-lead ammunition is good enough for the U.S. military, with all their ballistics and performance testing, it should be good enough for hunters," George Fenwick, president of American Bird Conservancy, said in a statement.

      Other hunting groups are actively encouraging their fellow hunters to consider using green bullets, which are usually made of copper or copper alloys. A group of avid sportsmen has developed a website, HuntingWithNonLead.org, which espouses the virtues of non-lead ammo.

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

      by annieli on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 01:53:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you for bringing this up. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      se portland

      I fully support the switch to non-lead ammo.

  •  the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ER Doc, ban nock

    .264 is the bullet du jour in the tactical competition community but the .270 has better ballistic coefficents and the .30-06, while nostalgic and certainly ubiquitous due to the military, is anachronistic in a world more used to using the more current 7.62, especially with the veterans coming back with more M-14 experience in addition to the usual M-4 from the combat zones

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 12:53:46 PM PST

  •  One of the times I've considered (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, theatre goon

    purchasing a "varmint" rifle, I went as far as to look into the comparative cost of ammunition.  I was shocked at the per shell cost of the 270 vs a .22.  I can't imagine the difference stepping up to the 30 06.

    You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

    by rb608 on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 02:23:32 PM PST

    •  It's about the same. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kasoru, annieli, theatre goon, rb608

      Not much difference between most center fires. Handloading cuts costs in half as well as groups.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 03:26:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rb608

      .30.06 would not be all that great a varmint round IMHO just from a ballistic POV. Better to use .223 /5.56, although my personal belief is that "large varmints" should be left alone

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

      by annieli on Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 05:04:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Believe my step-sons use .270 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, theatre goon

    One custom lapped and crowned the barrel and set it with the bolt assembly and stock. Polished walnut of course. Brought home venison this year :) Nice to have natural protein.

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