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Dmitry Kiselyov, chief propagandist for Russian leader Vladimir Putin, threatened the US with nuclear annihilation over Ukraine yesterday.

Dmitry Kiselyov posed in front of a mushroom cloud graphic during his weekly program on the Rossiya 1 news channel to boast that Russia was the only country in the world still capable of turning the U.S. into “radioactive dust.”
Kiselyov used animated maps to show how Russia would automatically respond with nuclear missiles if command and control were attack or disabled by the U.S.

It is important to understand that these threats are propaganda, not necessarily official Russian policy. ABC News explains:

His comments seem intended to reassure the public here that Russia - a day after being isolated at the United Nations and on the cusp of being isolated economically from the world - is still a mighty nation capable of standing tall on its own.

It's the distillation of Putin's nationalistic swing in recent years: Who cares about foreign criticism and sanctions? Russia is an exceptional nation with superior values that are lost in the morally decaying West that is clawing to maintain its edge.

Kiselyov is selling Putin's dream of the return of Russian might - the return of glory and empire lost - as the Kremlin flexes its muscles and reasserts itself on the world stage.

Kiselyov rose to power after the dissolution of RIA Novosti.
The move appears as a push by the Kremlin to consolidate state media resources at a time of increasing online criticism of Putin’s 13 years of rule, and to take a pro-active approach in shaping Russia’s image abroad.

Sergei Ivanov, Putin’s chief of staff, said the move will not only make state-owned media use budget funds “more rationally” but also transmit the Kremlin’s political message abroad more effectively.

He was already known for his anti-gay tirades.
The round-faced anchor who appears on a plethora of TV shows and radio programmes, is most infamous for saying in a talk show once that gays should be banned from donating blood, and their hearts, in case of a deadly car accident, “buried or burned as unfit for continuing somebody else’s life.”
It is impossible to understand what is going on in Ukraine today without focusing on the role of hate media. It was hate radio, in part, which helped drive crackpot conspiracy theories about the alleged role of Saddam Hussein in the 9/11 attacks and the invasion and occupation of Iraq. And based on the fact that Kiselyov is in such a position of power in Russia, it is obvious that hate radio and hate TV is helping to drive this present conflict.
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Comment Preferences

  •  It's of a piece with Putin's nostalgia for the (11+ / 0-)

    Soviet Union. But since the U.S. and Europe aren't going to go to war of the Crimea, unless we think Putin suicidal, it's just hot air. That said, the mind-set it reveals should give pause to those who question using means short of war to discourage further Russian aggression against Ukraine.

    Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

    by another American on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:18:03 AM PDT

  •  What should our response be? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Jester, native

    what outcome do we seek?  What means are required to acheive that outcome?

    •  Nothing (8+ / 0-)

      Personally, I think we should let a dumb communist decision from 1954 be undone.  Crimea is Russian, not Ukrainian.

      The people of Crimea voted, I think we should respect that vote.

      •  Except the process was rigged. (14+ / 0-)

        The elections were marred by boycotts and there were Russian soldiers and "self-defense" forces in the streets. If that is not voter intimidation, I want to know what is.

        "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

        by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:29:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They report that "96.7%" of the Crimeans (19+ / 0-)

          voted to merge with Russia.  Sure.  Obviously it was as rigged as any election in history.

          But Norm says

          The people of Crimea voted, I think we should respect that vote.
          That's really gagworthy.
          •  Well...it's not that cut and dry..... (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aimeehs, marsanges, ER Doc, ColoTim, ArthurPoet
            At first glance, the scene at the polling station at Simferopol's High School Number Nine looked little different to a routine local election in England. The queues outside the school were orderly, and there was no sign of intimidation. Nor, however, was there much in the way of real choice on the ballot paper.

            Option one was to reunify with Russia. Option two was to declare de facto independence from the rest of Ukraine. Option three – to remain as part of Ukraine as before – did not have a box.

            Perhaps not surprisingly, therefore, most of those who turned out to vote yesterday were firmly in favour of the options for which there was a box to tick.

            and.....
            The turnout in Crimea’s referendum on the future of the peninsula reached 44.27 % of those eligible to vote
            Not a great percentage given the two choices to vote on -

            If the number is accurate and 44.27% voted - there's a problem with the results.

            The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

            by ctexrep on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:07:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If you don't vote, you don't count (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            hassanm

            Why did people boycott the vote?  Makes no sense to just stay home and not be counted.  Especially if you're claiming they were the majority.

            Do you claim every US election is illegitimate when the number of people staying home is greater than those who vote?

            •  They didn't have option to vote for staying with (7+ / 0-)

              Ukraine...
              they could vote to Leave Ukraine and join russia
              or leave Ukraine and be independent state.
              all of their energy is imported, even electricity
              and so on.

              Let's say we had a choice of voting for rick sanatorium or herman cain. Would you go vote?

              •  No one owns a pen? (0+ / 0-)

                If my choice was Santorum or Cain, I wouldn't just stay home and pout and refuse to vote, thinking that somehow gave me a noble legitimacy.

                Instead, I would take a pen, and write in the candidate of my choice.  And I would convince others to do the same.

                But there was a choice.  To join Russia or not join Russia.  If the vote for independent state had won, they could have decided later to not actually leave Ukraine.

                •  We have write-in boxes on our ballots. (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Timaeus, ColoTim, ArthurPoet, Lawrence

                  The Ukrainians didn't.

                  There was no option for them to vote against secession.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:55:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Fine, but look (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm living in Illinois.  Say Canada decides that Chicago is really part of Canada, since it's on the Great Lakes.  And we get a vote that says:

                    A)  Secede from the US and become part of Canada
                    B)  Secede from the US and become and independent state.

                    Well, I'd rather be an independent state than part of Canada.  And an independent state has the ability to do things, like not secede at all at the end of the day.

                    Makes a hell of a lot more sense than to just stay home and pout, and then say I had no voice.

                    •  Are you for real? (0+ / 0-)

                      Ukraine never agreed to this referendum that Putin created.  So what's the mechanism for implementing the results of either option on the ballot?  Russian military force, that's what.  Both the "independence" and "annexation" options are to be implemented via Russian invasion, which has already occurred.

                      The Putin apologists should at least now propose a legitimate way to implement the annexation.  The way I see it, Putin should now offer to buy Crimea for trillions of dollars.  It would still be outrageous since Ukraine would have to accept the offer at the point of a gun, but Putin could at least claim he gave Ukraine due compensation.

                      •  Crimea never agreed to be traded to Ukraine (0+ / 0-)

                        How would you like it if one day you woke up to find out that your state had just been given to either Canada or Mexico?  No vote, no say in the matter, just done, traded away like a baseball card.

                        And due compensation?  For what?  Ukraine didn't buy Crimea in the first place.  So what do they need to be compensated for?

                        Why is some politician in Kiev entitled to the wealth production of the people of Crimea because of a 1954 Soviet communist decision?  How does that make any sense?

                        Ukraine didn't buy Crimea, so it can't sell Crimea.

                •  Actually, given those choices (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ColoTim

                  most people in this country would like go 'meh' and stay home.

                  It's the very, very rare election that has a write-in candidate win. And even then, they have to be really well known, and probably the incumbent who didn't get on the ballot for some reason (Lisa Murkowski comes to mind).

                  •  And just like in this country... (0+ / 0-)

                    The people who say 'meh' get what's given to them, and what they think doesn't matter.  Because they said 'meh'.  That was their vote.

                    But did you see my post on Hawaii?  What of the 65% of Hawaiian voters who said 'meh' on the Statehood question.  Does that mean Hawaii isn't a state?

                  •  The incumbent (remain with Ukraine) wasn't on (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Norm in Chicago, auron renouille

                    this ballot, so people had no effective opportunity to write-in that choice.

                    •  You don't see that as a follow-up? (0+ / 0-)

                      This election was about one thing:  Accept Russia, or reject Russia.  A vote for independence can always later become a vote to stay with Ukraine.

                      A vote to join Russia only has one interpretation, and that's what won.

                      Those who stayed home should have voted for independence if they had the greater numbers.  Never EVER stay home and pout.

                      •  No - for the vote to have hoped to be valid, they (3+ / 0-)

                        needed a choice to remain right where they were.  

                      •  No, the vote "accept Russia now or later." nt. (0+ / 0-)

                        There was no option to politely decline the occupation troops.

                        Are you really so jaded that you can't see a sham election when it's right in front of your eyes?

                        "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

                        by auron renouille on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:26:14 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I just don't really care (0+ / 0-)

                          Crimea used to be part of Russia until it was traded to Ukraine through internal Soviet politics.  With the collapse of the Soviet Union, I just don't see why anything that happened during Soviet times is sacred.  It was Russia and it still is Russia.  Why do you say it has to be Ukranian.

                          As I also posted, the Hawaiian vote for Statehood was also a sham election.  We were never going to leave Pearl Harbor.  So it was accept the US now, or later for Hawaii also.

                          If Crimea can't be a part of Russia, than Hawaii isn't a state, and Obama isn't our President.  Try and be consistent about these things.

                  •  I encourage people to vote in every election here, (0+ / 0-)

                    however small, but that election was such a farce that I think a boycott was the only plausible response to it.  It's not at all the same as picking the least-bad option for a representative - the simple act of voting legitimizes secession, and the only way to oppose secession and support the status quo was to not vote.

                    "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

                    by auron renouille on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:24:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  99%, 55%, who cares? (8+ / 0-)

          Our diplomacy shouldn't be with Russia, it should be with Ukraine.  Get them to accept it and make them a Western client state, which is what a majority of Ukrainians want at this point, probably with more fervor than a couple of weeks ago.

          It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

          by Rich in PA on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:36:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  So we should encourage (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BradMajors

          a do over?  This time with monitors?  expect a different outcome?

          •  Yes to the first two questions. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            middleagedhousewife, marsanges

            I'm not concerned about the outcome; I'm concerned about the process.

            "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

            by Eternal Hope on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:47:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  How long do British elections take? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ER Doc, ColoTim

            Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have a lot of experience with prime ministers calling for elections when conditions favor them, yet I think it still takes a month for them to straighten things out.

            For Russians in Crimea to call for an election in 2 weeks, when their system hasn't had a history of regular elections is a sure indication that they don't want an honest election.

            Freedom's just another word for not enough to eat. --Paul Krugman's characterization of conservative attitudes.

            by Judge Moonbox on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:28:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No. Ukraine never agreed to a referendum on (0+ / 0-)

            the question of relinquishing one of its provinces.  Ukraine has not agreed to abide by the results of such a referendum.  It's not our business to encourage a do over of a referendum administered by a foreign military force that the host nation hasn't agreed to.

            Only after Ukraine agreed to a referendum should we support do overs with monitors or whatever.

        •  and Norm and other squeal (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joe from Lowell, auron renouille

          if people are made to wait in line to vote here.

          sheesh.

        •  Is Hawaii not a real US state? (4+ / 0-)
          By a letter of September 17, 1959, after a statehood vote in Hawaii with 94 percent approval(of the 35% of eligible voters; there were a total of 133,000 votes for annexation out of a eligible voting population of 382,000 [1]),
          The acceptance of statehood for Hawaii was not without its share of controversy. Many Native Hawaiians in Hawaii protested against statehood.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          Also, don't forget that Hawaii was heavily occupied by the US Military.  If the native Hawaiians had rejected US statehood and ordered all military personnel to abandon the naval base at Pearl Harbor, just what exactly do you think would have happened?  The navy would have just packed up and left?

          Russia has more claim to Crimea than we do to Hawaii.  And the vote looks pretty similar yes?  Only 35% of eligible voters?  You sure that wasn't rigged as well, marred by US soldiers all over Honolulu?

          •  That vote was different from what happened in (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Norm in Chicago, auron renouille

            Crimea.  
            1.  The vote was not to leave one country and go with another.  Hawaii was considered by the whole world (UN, US and every other country) a non-self-governing country and it had been that way for a couple of generations.
            2.  They apparently had the option of voting "no".  The Crimeans had two choices for independence - none for remaining Ukrainians.
            3.  While there were many non-native people on the islands, per your Wiki article most were Asian, not American.  In the Crimea, many of the native populations (Tatars, especially) have been forcefully relocated out of their homeland and replaced by ethnic Russians.  That's more like if the Hawaiians had been relocated from Hawaii and only the Americans were allowed to vote.
            4.  Even had Hawaii voted "no" there would not have been any forced expulsion of American forces.  The Hawaiians apparently did not feel that level of antipathy to the US, which had provided defense just a few years before during World War II and which provided a great amount of economic income to the islands.  Again, from the article, the Hawaiians did it more to join America and cease their territory status so that they weren't governed by the rising Asian interests.

            I don't see any really good analogies with your point.  I mean, look at Puerto Rico - they have been allowed self-determination but under a special relationship with the US and they haven't been forced to submit to US statehood.  They could vote to become a state at any time and then petition Congress, but they haven't chosen that route and the US hasn't made them.  

            •  So Hawaii benefitted from Pearl Harbor so.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ColoTim

              So really, there was no military occupation of Hawaii because:

              -Hawaiians didn't really count as a people and had no capacity to self govern (decided by a bunch of old white men in the 40's)

              -It's not a military occupation if the people welcome it and benefit from it economically.  And the Americans weren't leaving anyway, so never mind that.

              -Hawaiians joined the US so they wouldn't be fought over and passed back and forth like a territory in RISK.

              -A majority Asian immigrant population that swings the vote is nothing at all like having natives deported to swing the vote.

              And you see no similarities between Hawaii and Crimea at all?  It looks to me like they see lots of benefit in being Russia's Pearl Harbor on the Black Sea.
              Also, Crimea never voted to become part of Ukraine in the first place, that was a communist Soviet Union decision.  So why should that be the default?

              •  Having not been alive yet and not having read (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Norm in Chicago

                deeply on the subject over the years, I don't believe that Hawaii and the Crimea are the same, but I guess I can see your point of view.  If you start with the premise that Hawaii was a military occupied country, then the rest of your ideas can flow from that.  I don't see Hawaii as quite that subjugated, but I will allow that the native Hawaiians may have felt differently.  I will stop trying to put words and thoughts in their mouths.

              •  Hawaiians didn't "join" the U.S. The islands ... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Gordon20024, Norm in Chicago

                ...were taken. Hawaii's previously independent Republic dismantled. It territorial government was established in 1900. Sixty-one years later, Hawaiians voted, but without the choice of again becoming independent.

                Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:20:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So Crimea actually got a better vote than Hawaii (0+ / 0-)

                  Crimea's vote had the option of joining Russia, or being independent.  Hawaii had the choice of becoming a state, or remaining a military occupied territory forever.  Because we were never leaving Pearl Harbor.

                  so explain to me again why we're supposed to go to war over, or even care about, Crimea?

          •  Shhhh.... Do as we say, not as we do.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Norm in Chicago
          •  Cokie Roberts says Hawaii is a foreign country. (0+ / 0-)

            Some birthers might agree with her.

        •  With 110% of the Votes Counted: (4+ / 0-)

          Favoring Annexation by Russia -- 96.7%
          Not Favoring Annexation -- n/a

          "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

          by midnight lurker on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:28:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And it wasn't even a real vote - it boiled down to (0+ / 0-)

          "Annexation now" or "Autonomy now," with the latter widely understood to carry the same result - autonomy followed by annexation.  There was no choice to retain the status quo.

          "The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, you can begin to distance yourself from anger." - The Dalai Lama

          by auron renouille on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:22:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The referendum was an obvious frame-up. (6+ / 0-)

        Look, we need to face reality and acknowledge that Russia is going to keep Ukraine. It would be insane to try to roll them back.

        But that doesn't mean we have to give such a naked act of aggression moral and political cover.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:47:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So its cool if large, (9+ / 0-)

        powerful countries snatch pieces of their neighbors because they have the military strength to do so???

        Not a recipe for a peaceful world. This invasion and occupation also teaches smaller countries that they must have nuclear weapons to protect themselves. This Crimean invasion never would have happened if Ukraine had not agreed to scrap its enormous nuclear arsenal in return for guarantees from the US and Russia.

        Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

        by OIL GUY on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:49:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's also okay if at least one small (4+ / 0-)

          but immensely powerful country does so.  

          You know which one.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:08:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The principle of self determination (5+ / 0-)

            is sacrosanct, but also situational.  

            •  yes indeed. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bobdevo, ColoTim, Johnny Q

              if you're a Kosovar: yaaayyyy!  
              if you're a Kurd: maybe, if you're in the right place at the right time, but your self-determination can be revoked at any time when convenient to us.
              if you're a Tibetan: we'd love to, but . . .
              if you're a Palestinian: surrender first, and be satisfied with the crumbs
              if you're a Crimean: NO
              (etc. etc. etc.)

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:13:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It is a melanin dependent continuum (5+ / 0-)

                best I can tell.

                •  Indeed this is largely the case. (0+ / 0-)

                  Not always, of course -- I doubt any Americans thought of Kosovars as whiter than Serbs (given our linguistic ignorance of "Albanian" as etymologically derived from a word meaning "white"), but we have a long history of promoting people to "whiteness" only once we decide they're sufficiently "one of us" -- or at least "white" in comparison to an even scarier racial threat.  Consider the history of the Irish, the Italians, and the Southern Slavs in our own country . . .

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:46:54 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, South Sudan is an exception (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    corvo

                    come to think of it.  But it surely pissed Russia off when we split up that country against their opposition.

                    Kosovo, South Sudan, Putin is just using same playbook we used to undermine Russian aspirations elsewhere.

                    •  Ultimately (0+ / 0-)

                      hegemony overrules ethnic considerations.  However, the non-whiteness of the parties involved does make it easier for us to cancel or ignore previously-made commitments.  Just ask the Kurds . . .

                      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                      by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:01:03 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  So we were wrong to (0+ / 0-)

                      try and stop a massacre??

                      What would you do? Sit on your hands while the government of Sudan committed genocide?

                      Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

                      by OIL GUY on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 12:52:53 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Excuse me, but (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Eyesbright, Timaeus, OIL GUY

                    could you two find a room and do this thing you're doing, there, behind some closed doors?  It's sort of nauseating.

        •  Uh, that's how we acquired Hawaii, Puerto (4+ / 0-)

          Rico, the Phillipines (at one point) and all the land west of the Alleghenies.

          If only the Cherokee of Lakota had nuclear weapons.

          Not to mention, Crimea has historically never been part of Ukraine until Kruschev - a Ukrainian not exactly elected thru Jeffersonian electoral process - GAVE Crimea to Ukraine as a birthday present.

          Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

          by bobdevo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:23:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's cool when we did it (0+ / 0-)

          Or should we give California and the entire Southwest back to Mexico?

          •  That was 150 years ago. (0+ / 0-)

            Our actions were shameful, not unusual for the time.

            I don't condone many things the US government has done. I protested vociferously against the Vietnam War and I resisted the draft. I protested against the Iraq invasion.

            I know that the US has done a great deal of damage in the world, but that doesn't mean we should not speak out against other countries when they violate international law and the accepted norms of modern society.

            Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

            by OIL GUY on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 01:00:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What if West Virginia and Virginia merged? (0+ / 0-)

              They used to be one state, they have very similar cultures, speak the same language and all. Is it really a crime against humanity if they went back to being one state?

              Can you explain exactly what the outrage is over?  Because I don't see it.

      •  Not nothing (9+ / 0-)

        The decision from 1954 was a reversal of the imperialist conquest. I.e. there was a reason for it. The later premiers were less communist and wanted to be sure to keep the population "Russian."

        So, "Go back to 1953, and it was Russian," but go back to before the Crimean War and it was Tartar, and go back before the Ottoman conquests. . . .

        That's the thing about historical arguments: there is no logical place to stop them. The actual response from the EU and US -- sanctions that will put a big hurt on the international trade of the Russian oligarchs -- is a good response to a take-over.

        "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

        by The Geogre on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:15:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You know, I'm fine with tariffs. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Geogre

          I don't like "free" trade anyway, so slap a few tariffs on Russian exports.  Call them sanctions if that makes you feel better.  It's really just going back to proper international trade.

          •  If they target the kleptocracy, even better (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Norm in Chicago

            EU nations need to wean from Russian natural gas and coal. Check.
            Russian allies of Putin are the surviving oligarchs who consolidated state owned industries into private control, and they are atop immense wealth. They need international trade to stay liquid and to dodge taxes.

            So, if Putin's allies hurt, Putin hurts. Meanwhile, if prices go up on Russian commodities, it helps give price breaks to green energy alternatives and accelerates transitions, where possible. (Unfortunately, electricity isn't everything.)

            "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

            by The Geogre on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:27:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It wasn't a nationwide vote. (5+ / 0-)

        We went to war over a similar call for secession.

      •  Vote (5+ / 0-)

        Except, there was no way to vote no!! Kind of makes it in-valid, no???

      •  You could say the same thing about Latvia (0+ / 0-)

        and Lithuania.  So should we kick them out of NATO now before we end up in a war over them?  After all, they were part of Russia back then and Russia has the same historical right to them as they do to Crimea.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:11:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Good goal-focused thinking. (17+ / 0-)

      So much of the discussion surrounding foreign-policy crises involving Russia have revolved around concepts like "backing down" or "saving face" or "credibility" or other touch-feely, abstract sentiments that basically come down to concepts like "tough guy" vs. "soft."

      For instance, the constant drum bear from the right about Obama being weak. Or, going back further, the effort from the left to insist that stripping Syria of its chemical arms without firing a shot represented some sort of defeat or cave by the Obama administration, because they didn't go through with the air strikes after getting what they wanted.

      Foreign policy is supposed to be about the accomplishment of objectives. It's not a campaign war room twenty days before the election, where winning the media cycle and looking good is the ballgame.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:28:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We, along with the E.U., should come up with a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amyzex

      Marshall Plan for Ukraine.

      It worked well in Germany, it can work well in Ukraine.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:57:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  EU beat us to it. (6+ / 0-)

        $15 billion, at least $11 billion of which in the form of loans that have to be repaid to -- you guessed it -- international banks.

        Welcome to Greece, Ukraine!

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:09:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's our corpse to pick," said the bank cartel.* (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, whizdom, Johnny Q

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:32:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Contrary to what some people may think, Greece (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marsanges

          , even in its current state, is not the hellhole that some would like to make it out to be.

          Many Ukrainians would, in fact, be happy to have Greek living standards.

          That being said, a Ukrainian Marshall Plan should involve more grants and lots of technical help.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:35:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  . . . grants coming from whom, exactly? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            limpidglass, native, Johnny Q

            The EU has already expressed its preferences.  The only way Ukraine is getting money out of our political establishment is by further cuts to pensions and other public benefits.  You really want to go there?

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:40:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

              The West, including Europe, has plenty of reserves.

              All that would have to be done is raise taxes on the very wealthy by less than 1% and Ukraine would be swimming in cash, with lots left over to boost social spending in Western Nations.

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:53:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  In Western Europe that might be (0+ / 0-)

                -- might be -- remotely possible.  In our current political climate it's unthinkable.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:10:40 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I'd prefer a Marshall Plan for Detroit, (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mmacdDE, ColoTim, Johnny Q, Meteor Blades

            if we're going to be doling out more grants and technical help.

      •  snort (5+ / 0-)

        Obama is willing to pony up only a lousy $1 billion. That's in loan guarantees, so it will have to be repaid. The EU will make only $4 billion available over the next year; the best estimate is $11 billion over the next six years. Again, all this money comes with strings.

        There is no way the IMF will dare violate its precious conditionality rules for Ukraine. If they do, half the eurozone will rise up and demand the same terms. It could potentially trigger a eurozone exit. Does anyone really think Spain with 20% unemployment (50% youth unemployment) is going to countenance Ukraine being given a sweetheart deal?

        If they really gave a shit, they could have offered a better deal while Yanukovych was still on the fence. They didn't, so it tells you how much they really value Ukraine.

        The IMF is the world's most powerful predatory lender, and when Russia tried to undercut them, they kneecapped the Ukrainian government. That's all. A credible alternative lender is unwelcome competition, so you stop anyone who tries to do business with them and pretty soon everyone gets the message. Any mafia boss knows that much.

        This is not the post-war age where the Western democracies actually cared about economic development, and subscribed to the rising-tide-lifts-all-boats philosophy. This is the age of predatory casino capitalism, of austerity, of asset-stripping.

        Does anyone really believe the EU will do better by Ukraine than it did by Greece--one of its own members?

        The EU loves to go on and on about how enlightened it is and how awesome their democracy and freedoms are. But talk is cheap. As Cuba Gooding Jr. said in Jerry Maguire: "Show me the money!"

        "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

        by limpidglass on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:30:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How about a Marshall Plan for the US (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native, Lepanto, Johnny Q

        before we start shipping $$$ overseas?

        Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

        by bobdevo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:25:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Brussels has probably already (0+ / 0-)

        done the studies and such.  And they have the money, though it's not wise of them to say so.  Of course it's going to cost a lot more in the long run than anyone is willing to put on the table now.  These things always do.

        The problem is that at present no one knows how much of present Ukraine will be under governance of Kiev and any rule of law regime.  No use investing in eastern Ukraine if it's going to be governed from Moscow, which means oligarchs and political appointees who can and will and even will be under orders to steal and subvert it.

        I used to think Ukraine would divide into halves due to unified ethnic Russian insistence.  That is proving much lesser than I expected.  With northern-western Ukraine not in doubt, Kiev can probably now viably insist on keeping at least the least ethnic Russian/most rural two thirds  or three quarters of southern-eastern Ukraine.  Ceding Crimea  but keeping claim on it as a bargaining chip for which to get concession on something in return, e.g. Odessa, the argument seems to be slowly narrowing focus to the largest eastern cities.  Which Kiev might be wise to not want to keep.

    •  The Greek resistence had a tool. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Jester

      When Greece was ruled by a right wing dictatorship (1967-1974), the resistance would get tape recorders, and dump them in some bushes or another obscure spot. After 20 minutes of silence, would record a message so that by the time it reached the spoken part, the person who left it had time to get away.

      I should think that with things like the iPod nano and other versions, it would be even easier to leave something behind.

      Freedom's just another word for not enough to eat. --Paul Krugman's characterization of conservative attitudes.

      by Judge Moonbox on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:38:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sign an EU/US mutual defense pact with Ukraine. (0+ / 0-)
    •  Provide economic support to Ukraine and the EU? (0+ / 0-)

      We can do a lot to assist the Ukrainans economically with cheap loans and some technology transfer to reduce their reliance on Russian Gas.  

      In the long term, I have also though about generally making green energy cheaper.  Its not just for environmental reasons but because the world's nastiest autocrats survive on fossil fuel extraction.  In essence, if we create a legal mechanism to pool green energy and clean tech patents and license them on a reasonable and non-discriminatory basis it will accelerate growth in this sector.  To provide an added incentive to license pattens, some form of tax benefit would be required to income generated by the patent holder.  

      I'm a 4 Freedoms Democrat.

      by DavidMS on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 11:06:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dmitry Kiselyov is Russian (14+ / 0-)

    for "Glenn Beck".

    "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

    by Calvino Partigiani on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:19:42 AM PDT

    •  Even So ... (0+ / 0-)
      His comments seem intended to reassure the public here that Russia - a day after being isolated at the United Nations and on the cusp of being isolated economically from the world - is still a mighty nation capable of standing tall on its own.
      With this historic parallel.
      Japan's threatened conquest of Southeast Asia, which in turn would threaten Great Britain's ability to resist Nazi aggression in Europe, prompted the administration of Franklin D. Roosevelt to sanction Japan by imposing an embargo on U.S. oil exports upon which the Japanese economy was critically dependent. Yet the embargo, far from deterring further Japanese aggression, prompted a Tokyo decision to invade Southeast Asia.
      -- Strategic Studies Institute
      And ultimately attack Pearl Harbor.

      Putin is backing up to Kruschevian saber rattling, Cold War II style.

      "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

      by midnight lurker on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:35:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Um... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ZedMont
    chief propagandist for Russian leader Vladimir Putin
    Is that an official post?
  •  Possible responses (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    native

    Should we follow the EU lead in this matter?  Or seek to lead ourselves, even if the EU doesn't agree?

    Should we decline to participate with Russia in Syria's Geneva 2, Iran P5+1, other contact groups?

  •  Remember, Ukraine has no right to self defense (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    janemas

    Why you ask?  When people in the US bring up the 2nd Amendment and say we need to be able to defend ourselves against criminals or a corrupt gov't, what the response?

    That the US military has big guns, tanks, planes and yes, nuclear bombs.  So the US citizenry really has no right to bear arms or self defense, because if they ever did, we'd all get nuked.

    Therefore, the same applies to the Ukraine.  Ukraine has no right to bear arms, no right to self defense, because if they ever fired a shot against Russia, Russia would nuke them just as fast as the US military would nuke US civilians in an uprising.

    So there you have it, Ukraine should just bend over and take it, they're outgunned.

  •  Well, duh. (7+ / 0-)
    Kiselyov used animated maps to show how Russia would automatically respond with nuclear missiles if command and control were attack or disabled by the U.S.
    One could quibble with the word choice (nothing "automatically" happens in any nuclear response worth its salt...that's what the suitcase is for) but it's the most obvious thing in the world that if one nuclear power attacks the "command and control" of another, that other one would respond.  Since the US isn't going to do that, I don't see what the story is.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 06:35:26 AM PDT

  •  it is very comforting to know (8+ / 0-)

    that other countries have chicken hawks and delsusions of grandeur and military industrial complexes that demand blood regularly.   I was beginning to think we were the only bad guys left.

  •  Ukraine (5+ / 0-)

    How much are they regretting giving up their Nukes right now? None of this would be happening if they hadn't.

    If I am North Korea, Iran, or any of the other regimes of this world I am never giving up my nukes.

    At this point it is literally the only thing that insulates you from aggressive behavior by belligerent neighbors.

  •  I reckon we are taking this and the Malaysia (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whizdom, polecat, jds1978, auron renouille

    incident seriously. I live near (not under) the flight paths from Travis and Beale AFB's in NoCal. Travis is mostly MAC (transport) and Beale is tactical/strategic (weapons).

    For the past two weeks we have seen a lot of additional traffic from both. Not a surprise I guess, but not a welcome sight either.

    And I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine. And I damn all gentlemen. Whose only worth is their father's name And the sweat of a workin' man Steve Earle - Dixieland

    by shigeru on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:00:46 AM PDT

  •  (*yawn*) (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilK, Nattiq, k9disc, Lepanto, Johnny Q

    and the number of times that high-ranking Americans have fantasized about nuking its real or perceived enemies?

    and the number of times that any nation has in fact done that?

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:07:39 AM PDT

  •  Meh. Russia has a Hannity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrblifil

    The US response is proper. The sanctions are going to hurt because Russia is not the Soviet Union. Russia's oligarchs are traders and move money, and now the money's going to be devalued.

    "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

    by The Geogre on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:09:17 AM PDT

    •  A "Continental Strategy" won't be as effective as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whizdom

      it was for Napoleon.  It wasn't that great for him, but France had a lot of coastline and Russia?  Not so much that's useful.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:19:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hannity wasn't appointed by George Bush. (6+ / 0-)

      Kiselyov was appointed the director of Russia Today by Vladimir Putin.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:22:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  RT is not Pravda (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native

        I really wish people on the putative left would stop with these glib assumptions and with all this joyful unfreezing of cold war tropes.

        He was appointed by Putin. The head of the CPB was appointed by a Bush panel. Does a person have no mind or soul or integrity because of who appointed the person? Doesn't that have to be assessed independently? In this case, wouldn't we look at the internal mess at RT, where anchors are quitting on the air and there are accusations from RT staff of self-censorship (note that), and read this guy's acts and words as reactionary statements in his own network?

        RT may not be the bestest greatest most wonderfulest thing on earth, but when exceptionally principled individuals find conflicts of interest there, that doesn't mean that it's automatically Radio Tirana. (For those who don't know, Radio Tirana always made Pravda look like Stars and Stripes.)

        Are you going to now say that Jim Hightower is a Soviet for being on RT? Let's be analytical rather than "he was appointed by X or Y" about these things: this guy's comments are stupid all by themselves. We don't need boogeymen on top of it.

        "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

        by The Geogre on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:20:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hired by the media consultant to the RNC (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native

        who had previously run the second Ronald Reagan campaign. For what it's worth, FoxNews has plenty of analogs to propaganda media.

        "man, proud man,/ Drest in a little brief authority,. . . Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven/ As make the angels weep; who, with our spleens,/ Would all themselves laugh mortal." -- Shakespeare, Measure for Measure II ii, 117-23

        by The Geogre on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:23:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Except that Hannity wasn't directly appointed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tony Situ

      to that position by the President and Fox News is not an official government news/propaganda organization.  The closest equivalent would be if the white house press secretary said something like that.

      You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 11:04:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yawn (6+ / 0-)

    "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

    •  Yeah, so now we can elect a GOP teabagger whose (0+ / 0-)

      faith tells him that GAWWDDDUH will render Putin's entire nuclear arsenal impotent five seconds before the US of A pushes the button that will outlaw Russia forever.

      Somehow, Reagan the Joker has become THE Joker.

      Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

      by ZedMont on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:16:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And the Neocons have their cold war back. (4+ / 0-)

    Thank you soooo much GWB for looking into Putin's "soul."

    /dumbsh*t

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:18:04 AM PDT

  •  If Iran was smart, they're got access to Europe (0+ / 0-)

    and could easily fill the Russian vacuum.

    Could be very interesting if they comply with dialing back the nuclear B.S.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:21:17 AM PDT

  •  Exactly how small is the official Russian dick? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Termite

    Sorry for being so profane, but seriously, while I realize that this is also about money and power, this is clearly also about national "pride", which in a deeply patriarchal society like Russia's is clearly also about male insecurity.

    And what are money and power to many men if not projections of their need to feel manly in front of other men. I.e. dick size.

    Also, to be incredibly obvious and Freudian, just LOOK at your average nuclear missile. What does it most closely resemble?

    Was this guy wearing a shirt when he issued this plea for Viagra "threat"?

    Thankfully, it looks as if Obama, Kerry, Powers, Rice & Dempsey (hey happy St. Paddy's day General!) are reading this and reacting to it properly. Putin WANTS the US and west to overreact and boost his tiny dick image at home to hide his incompetence at running Russia. Is this revenge for beating his hockey team?

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:22:58 AM PDT

  •  Russia heading further into North Korea (4+ / 0-)

    nutjob territory by the day.

  •  What comes to mind (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999

    are the images of Soviet troops limping out of Afghanistan in '88-'89, their tails between their legs and their battered tanks a-chug-chug-chuggin' after nine years having their butts kicked by the "locals".

    What?

    No nukes?

    Talk is cheap, Dmitry.

    ... and nuclear fallout blows both ways.

  •  These are not my shoes!!!!!!!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:56:48 AM PDT

  •  Both US & Russia are just posturing (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BradMajors, janemas, bobdevo, native, Lepanto

    Reuters has a piece explaining how closely US and Russia are linked: Since 2002 the rocket engines that put all US satellites in orbit are made in Russia. How long do you think all the advanced US weaponry would function without satellites?

    If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

    by Valatius on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:13:14 AM PDT

    •  You've got to be kidding me. (0+ / 0-)

      Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

      by ZedMont on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:20:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Some details on US-Russian partnership (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BradMajors, bobdevo, native

      To be specific: The Russian company Energomash has a contract to make the RD 180 rocket engines with which our Atlas V puts the large military and intelligence satellites into orbit on behalf of Lockheed Martin and Boeing who of course make the usual giant profits.

      Air Force Undersecretary Erich Fanning announced last Tuesday that he didn't anticipate any interruption in the supply.

      If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

      by Valatius on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:26:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hell, we even (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobdevo

      need Russia to get our astronauts home from the space station.

      If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

      by LieparDestin on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 08:29:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "all US satellites" ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE

      http://www.space.com/...

      Dual payloads to broadcast television and broadband signals for Asia Broadcast Satellite and French and Italian security forces rocketed into orbit on an Ariane 5 rocket Thursday on Arianespace's landmark 250th launch.
      http://www.space.com/...
      Launch Photos: NASA's GPM Satellite Soars on Japanese Rocket
      http://www.cnn.com/...
      A Japanese rocket roared into orbit early Friday (Thursday afternoon ET) carrying what NASA calls its most precise instrument yet for measuring rain and snowfall.

      The Global Precipitation Measurement (GPM) satellite is the first of five earth science launches NASA has planned for 2014.

      http://www.spacearchive.info/...
      APR 3 , 07:46-07:56 , Atlas V
      Vehicle will launch the DMSP F19 military weather satellite. Liftoff will occur an hour after sunrise
      .............
      JUL 1 , 02:56 , Delta II    
      Vehicle will launch the Orbiting Carbon Observatory 2 environmental satellite. 1-second launch window
      .............
      AUG     To be announced Atlas V
      Vehicle will launch the WorldView 3 earth imaging satellite
      http://most.gov.il/...
      On September 19, 1988 the State of Israel launched its first satellite, Ofeq-1, a reconnaissance satellite that was developed and built in Israel. Ofeq-1 was launched via the Israeli Shavit satellite launcher – making Israel the eighth member of the prestigious club (now 10 in number) of countries with space launch capabilities and with the ability to build and operate satellites and spacecraft.

      As of today, 13 Israeli satellites have been launched into space:

      "please love deeply...openly and genuinely." A. M. H.

      by indycam on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:44:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just make sure the LA Class Subs have the Russian (0+ / 0-)

    nuclear missile subs "covered" 24/7. Have their military aircraft concentrations targeted, and be prepared to simultaneously First Strike their ground based missiles and sink the subs.

    Just in case, worst case scenario, limit the damage to the US and EU. Ramp up production of the anti-radiation pills, start stockpiling food stuffs, ramp up civil defense preparations. We know how to do all this, we did it for 50 years.

    Then, have Bruce Willis make a movie about it. ;)

  •  Russians, still suffering from missile envy (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe we should just export quality vodka to them gratis. All they want. The men mostly drink themselves to death now anyway. Whats the average male expectancy now? 50? Pathetic.

  •  Kiselyov would be a Fox contributor (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence

    If he lived here.

  •  Putin's starting to look more like Kim Jung Un... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    auron renouille

    ...every day now.  Anybody who has that many staged "heroic events" and needs that many shirtless pictures printed has some serious issues.

    We need to do a Fistful of Dollars thing and set Russian and North Korea against each other... let 'em take each other out and leave us out of it.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:07:03 AM PDT

  •  Have any of your brainiacs bothered to look (0+ / 0-)

    at how close Russian ICBM sites are to the Ukrainian border?

    At how vulnerable they are to be taken out without warning by our 287 stealth fighters?

    At the consequences to 484 US cities and 70% of the US population if Putin decides he needs to "Use Them or Lose Them"?

    Best I can  calculate, 98% of the DailyKos membership would go poof but lots of Red State rural dwellers would remain and take over like roaches and crabgrass.

      Which would make life interesting for the small surviving DailyKos remnant:   Dying by radiation poisoning, eating rats to avoid starvation  or joining a Tea Party  fundamentalist church.  

    •  "Your brainiacs"? (0+ / 0-)

      Lolz. Was that a typo or do you just not belong here?

      Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

      by ExpatGirl on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:28:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  After an apocalypse, anything (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades

      might happen.   If we're going to make up bullshit, the most likely scenario after a nuke exchange is that the U.S. will get repopulated from Mexico and the few tens of thousands of Tea Party/Red Staters will rest in shallow graves if not cremated en masse.

    •  How vulnerable are Russia's 112 SLBMs ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      killjoy

      ..with their 416 nuclear warheads? Survivors of a nuclear exchange between the U.S. and Russia, whether they live in red states or not, would envy the dead.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 07:49:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Check again, Meteor (0+ / 0-)

        1) Russia's nuclear SLBMs submarines have declined to seven old Deltas -- that are usually tied up at the dock.  Lying there with their legs spread --more vulnerable than the landbased ICBMs:

        http://russianforces.org/...

        http://blogs.fas.org/...

        2) The two subs in the new generation haven't been commissioned because their missiles are squirrelly:

        http://defensetech.org/...

        3) Thing may be different 3 years hence but right now Putin is over a barrel, hence likely to react vigorously and without warning.  

        And meanwhile the New York Times, the Washington Post , the 5  TV networks -- and Daily Kos -- are giving 314 millions Americans no warning whatsoever.  

        •  So, your argument is that the U.S.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          auron renouille

          ...should not impose sanctions so that Putin will not feel threatened or it should launch a first-strike attack on Russia's nukes and hope that none of them manage to survive the attack?

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 09:51:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have explained my argument clearly. (0+ / 0-)

            1) From the Russians' viewpoint, There is no reason for the USA to have poured  money into  Ukraine via NGOs Freedom House and National Endowment for Democracy -- and  to have persistently courted Ukraine to join nuclear -armed  NATO for years -- other than to gain a base from which to eventually neutralize and conquer Russia.  Possibly via a First Strike on Russia's ICBMs  that is feasible only if launched from Ukraine.

            http://www.nato.int/...

            "Two months later, at the NUC meeting of foreign ministers in Vilnius, Lithuania, in April 2005, the Allies and Ukraine launched an Intensified Dialogue on Ukraine’s aspirations to NATO membership. They also announced a package of short-term actions designed to enhance NATO-Ukraine cooperation in key reform areas.

            At the Bucharest Summit in April 2008, Allied leaders agreed that Ukraine may become a NATO member in future.

            In August 2009, a “Declaration to Complement the Charter on a Distinctive Partnership between NATO and Ukraine” was signed. It gives the NUC a central role in deepening political dialogue and cooperation, and in underpinning Ukraine’s reform efforts pertaining to its membership aspirations.

            In 2010, the newly elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych made it clear that while it was not presently pursuing NATO membership, it wished to maintain the existing level of cooperation with the Alliance and to fulfill existing agreements. "

            2) What else  is there in a bankrupt country 4500 miles from the USA?   How  does any of this  benefit  the American People?  And why is no one asking why we are there and why Washington is running these risks on a border about 250 miles from Moscow?  As opposed to letting Ukraine trade with EU while remaining no military threat to Russia.

            3) For Ukraine's benefit?  Clause 5 of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum  commits Russia to not attack Ukraine with nukes --unless Ukraine attacks Russian forces while  associated with or allied with a nuclear weapons state.
            Like, eg,, the USA.

            4) Crimea is irrelevant.   Unless the USA agrees that Ukraine will not join NATO --that it will remain neutral as Russia has proposed -- then Putin has no option but to constantly try to retake it.    Starting with the Eastern pro-Russian section. Look at how we reacted during the Cuban Missile crisis in the 1960s.

            •  Actually, we made a deal with the USSR to... (0+ / 0-)

              ...end the Cuban missile crisis, our missiles removed for their missiles removed.

              Thanks for your full explanation (even if you've provided it previously, I didn't see it).

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:37:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  1) If you are interested in details of the First (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                native

                Strike threat to Russia, I put up a diary two weeks ago
                 and debated some aspects  with another Kos user who seemed to have some military knowledge.

                http://www.dailykos.com/...

                2) Here are the rough ranges of Russian ICBM sites from the Ukraine (taken from  Annex C of the document I cited in the diary.)

                Dombarovskiy (30 RS-20s ICBMs): 1000 miles --in range

                 Uzhur: (20 RS-20s): 3500 --out of range, but 2000 miles from Aghanistan  (in F22 range with four external fuel tanks?)

                 Kozel’sk (20 RS-18): 150 miles --in range

                 Tatishchevo (40 RS-18, 58 RS-12M2 silo): 350 miles --in range

                 Teykovo (18 RS-12M2 mobile, 18 RS-24 ): 500 miles --in range

                 Yoshkar-Ola (27 RS-12M mobile): 700 miles --in range

                 Nizhniy Tagil (27 RS-12M mobile) : 1450 --in range of F22

                 Barnual: (36 RS-12M mobile): 3000 miles --out of range (but 1700 miles from Afghanistan US bases, close to range of F22 and probably in range with wing external tanks, total stealth initially not needed in mountains? )

                 Vypolzovo (18 RS-12M mobile): 500 miles --in range (and only 300 miles from NATO Latvia)

                3) One issue is whether conformal external fuel tanks made with stealth material are being developed that would extend the range of the F35s and F22s without
                degrading their concealment.  

                4) Others can disagree over some of the details--I welcome the debate.  What worries me is that our major News Media are refusing to touch the subject AT
                ALL .

                They are refusing to ask how Putin could objectively view our actions, how violently he might be compelled to react and what kind of cost-benefit analysis in Washington could justify the risks being taken.

      •  Even when one Delta goes out it sticks close to (0+ / 0-)

        Russia's coast --because it is vulnerable to our more numerous and deadlier attack submarines.   Look at the small patrol areas in the above FAS link.

        Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

        http://rt.com/...

        http://www.darpa.mil/...(ASW)_Continuous_Trail_Unmanned_Vessel(ACTUV).aspx

        Nice things about drones -- you can send them crawling up Putin's ass and no sailors are at risk.

  •  Kiselyov is the Russian Glenn Beck who Putin put (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence

    in charge of a new State media empire in December.

    There is no existence without doubt.

    by Mark Lippman on Mon Mar 17, 2014 at 10:40:18 AM PDT

  •  It's a growl from the bear. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bmastiff

    Stop poking the bear, and stay away from its cubs.

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