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I caught the following yesterday as HHS,  Department of Health and Human Services', along with others were releasing the public news about.

Marijuana study in veterans wins US backing

This should have started some forty years ago, as we came home from Vietnam. Instead the Country ignored what we and many in the anti-war movement were saying. Some of conservative thinking individuals made handsome livings denying PTS, Post Traumatic Stress, and frankly Traumatic Brain injuries, even existed. They were very well paid speakers and authors and those served liked it that way. Trouble is it even greatly hurt the civilian populations where individuals lived through their own damaging traumatic experiences.

March 17, 2014 - The U.S. government has signed off on a long-delayed study looking at marijuana as a treatment for military veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder, a development that drug researchers are hailing as a major shift in U.S. policy.

The Department of Health and Human Services' decision surprised marijuana advocates who have struggled for decades to secure federal approval for research into the drug's medical uses.

The proposal from the University of Arizona was long ago cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, but researchers had been unable to purchase marijuana from the National Institute on Drug Abuse. The agency's Mississippi research farm is the only federally-sanctioned source of the drug.

In a letter last week, HHS cleared the purchase of medical marijuana by the studies' chief financial backer, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, which supports medical research and legalization of marijuana and other drugs.   read more>>>

Didn't see anything else about in my travels through many media sites, till a sort time ago, this popped up on the CBS site:

Gov't approves study of marijuana smoking to treat PTSD in military veterans

March 18, 2014 - Could marijuana help treat post-traumatic stress disorder in military veterans? New research aims to find out.

The U.S. government has signed off on a long-delayed study looking at marijuana as a treatment for military veterans with PTSD, a development that drug researchers are hailing as a major shift in U.S. policy.

The study will measure the effects of five different potencies of smoked or vaporized marijuana in treating symptoms of PTSD in 50 veterans.

The Department of Health and Human Services' decision surprised marijuana advocates who have struggled for decades to secure federal approval for research into the drug's medical uses.   read more>>>

I'm not going to go into any depth about using marijuana as a medicine, especially for PTS or TBI, even in the advances found in medical marijuana that some families are finding in helping their children, as well as others.

Will say, I know many of brothers it helped, also know many who's search to relieve the nightmares carried into abuse, from alcohol down the line to other drug use, some to jail time some to death. All while what always was was totally ignored, added to a long list of other issues from previous and from Vietnam, by the country served, if it don't exist no need to pay for care.

Another thing I know. The Country, whether a war is of choice or last resort justified, benefits from many of the results of, especially medical, and like these two recent long conflicts get those benefits for free. As neither one of these two have yet to be pad for and especially the results of as to the countries responsibility the Veterans' Administration. Long under funded, long attack because of the problems caused by that under funding, and those problems cause much more to correct thus taking from what the agency is charged to accomplish, especially during and after our wars, Of Choice!!!

Add this to the growing list of issues this Veterans Administration with the help of the Executive Administration and it's entire Cabinet that has been taken on in the last five years. Still grossly under funded, still under attack especially by conservatives seeking to privatize for corporate profits, like their wars, and some still calling for Gen Shinseki to resign, same conservative ilk!!

Originally posted to DKos Military Veterans on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 03:24 PM PDT.

Also republished by DKos Cannabis Law and Drug War Reform.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (21+ / 0-)

    "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

    by jimstaro on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 03:24:05 PM PDT

  •  Send monthly Veterans benefit checks through (9+ / 0-)

    the mail in a small package. Contents: the payment check and an ounce of Thai sticks as a freebie bonus. Those who care, keep and enjoy. Those who choose, go to market and supplement what, otherwise, is all too meager.

    Lord knows there would be no harm in any of that.

    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

    by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 03:38:04 PM PDT

    •  I think it would be best (3+ / 0-)

      if you were in charge of this study, ops!...SSK

      "Hey Clinton, I'm bushed" - Keith Richards UID 194838

      by Santa Susanna Kid on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 04:02:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  During the clusterfuck in The Nam, I both sent (3+ / 0-)

        stuff in there, and gladly received tidings therefrom. Everyone I knew really, really wanted to live, and really, really wanted to get back home. The rest of the bullshit not so much. And that's precisely what resulted in eating too many of them up from the inside. Alot of people know VVA, Vietnam Veterans of America. A great outfit. In prison I met IVVA, Incarcerated Vietnam Veterans of America. Pretty much the same folks. Some vets, though, just can't avoid going homeless inside of the places where we house the victims of The War on Drugs.

        Bless them all!

        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

        by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:32:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What confounds me is that (5+ / 0-)

    they aren't removing it from Schedule I in conjunction with this study. After all, it has "no currently accepted medical use"...SSK

    "Hey Clinton, I'm bushed" - Keith Richards UID 194838

    by Santa Susanna Kid on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 03:59:52 PM PDT

  •  Smoking "Marijuana" is NOT the most effective (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpotsmuggler

    way to use the medically beneficial cannabinoid drugs found in cannabis resins. I really wish everyone would just stop this nonsense. We already know that cannabinoids like CBD and CBN have medicinal value in treating TBI and very likely helpful in treating PTSD. Both synthetic and organic THC have been cleared for medical use by the FDA and we know that concentrated cannabinoid oils are far more medically beneficial than smoking it. Why do we need a study on this?

    Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

    by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 04:19:59 PM PDT

    •  Look Son (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpotsmuggler

      There wasn't the advances in the chemical makeup back when, what about 'shoulda started some forty years back' is so hard to understand.

      And many using, i.e. smoking. actually did get help, along with talking to other brothers, as to the living nightmares brought back. Along with civilians who realized same from using and not abusing!!

      And like I said, those served ignored us, not only as to these issues, and still do for many issues from these two recent theaters, so frankly this:

      I really wish everyone would just stop this nonsense.
      is nonsense pointed in the wrong direction.

      There's others issues over that some forty year span, like alternative clean energy we started developing only to be blocked in growing that industry, the country bought the special interest spin, and oh so much more.

      If we had advanced, critical thinking started waining, we'd be at the levels these studies are seeking!!

      "If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

      by jimstaro on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 04:41:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You completely misunderstand (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler, OrganicChemist

        I'm a Viet Nam vet that also found relief of PTS by smoking "marijuana" in the 70's. But I also found that if I ate my homegrown bud instead of smoking it my relief lasted far longer and I received more benefits with less negative side effects like laziness and memory loss.

        There are many benefits of herbal cannabis but why can't we get past the decades old propaganda that created the mythology of marijuana? We don't need to study a slang term that can mean different things to different people. We need to study the actual medical value of the cannabinoid drugs found in cannabis resins.

        If we stopped trying to apply medical benefits to smoking something we would find that there are already many scientific studies that confirm the medical value of cannabinoids like THC, CBD and CBN. Smoking "marijuana" is not the same thing at all. We have already won this argument if we just focused upon already settled scientific fact and stopped trying to elevate a slang term to a medicine.  

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 05:06:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Take it from me, the game is rigged. I said some (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RMForbes, suspiciousmind

          of the same things you do at my prosecution for 20,000 lbs. of weed (and other stuff, too, obviously).

          And then I served the part of the 25 years sentence that I had to.

          And then I did the parole.

          And now there's this. Small progress at last.

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:40:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yep, and it will remain to be rigged (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpotsmuggler

            as long as the DEA is involved in the scheduling of drugs in the Controlled Substances Act. The DEA has significant conflict of interests because there budget depends upon the schedule of the drug. This is the problem we really need to solve.

            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

            by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:49:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Ya know it ain't the same for everyone (0+ / 0-)

          I use pot for pain management. It's not a cure all but it helps however, ingesting dope doesn't work for me but smoking does help.

      •  It was a power struggle then. It's still mostly (0+ / 0-)

        the same power struggle these many years later. But now we finally see small progress.

        Sadly too late for far too many, but still. And then, maybe while you and I are still alve, there will finally be a Monument to mark the end of even this battle and the lives it took.

        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

        by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:46:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  going through the motions (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RMForbes, oldpotsmuggler

      to appease the prohibitionists. it'll all be worth it.

      The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

      by elkhunter on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 04:44:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler

        We have already won this argument if we just stopped using the debate frame and language created by the prohibitionists. There is no real debate in the scientific community about the medical benefits of cannabinoids like THC, CBD and CBN but there is little consensus on the medicinal value of smoking what is commonly called marijuana.

        I think we need to focus the debate on the settled science about cannabinoids and avoid getting trapped in debating the value of a slang term.  It just seems obvious to me.

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 05:14:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, man, that's not how politics work (0+ / 0-)

          You have to change actual minds, not just words. The minds of the people (us) who can tell the people (politicians) who can tell the people (agency heads) who can tell the people (bureaucrats) to knock it off and write new, evidence-based policies. And make it stick. Because the first thing any bureaucrat learns is how to make the wheels run backwards.

          Be grateful. If words really had that kind of power, Frank Luntz would be King. Except he would tell us he wasn't King at all, just a wordsmith, trying to clarify our communications. Which is his standard Dog Whistle for maximum obfuscation, fear, uncertainty, and doubt in any form that gets Republicans to the polls and gets Democrats to stay home.

          Don't nag at us that we are using words wrong. Demonstrate how to do it right. Explain the 60+ cannabinoids in a Diary sometime, and point us to the studies that sorted them out. Talk to the people who have put the votes through in Colorado and Washington about what messaging works with actual voters. What did they say in Uruguay, also?

          Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

          by Mokurai on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 11:35:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Smoking, as a ritual (3+ / 0-)

      Has many benefits.

      "If you pour some music on whatever's wrong, it'll sure help out." Levon Helm

      by BOHICA on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 05:25:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Eating a meal is a ritual as well (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler

        Except if you eat herbal cannabis you are not exposed to dangerous chemicals and hot gasses that are in the smoke. If you need quick relief from THC, it is just plain better to use a vaporizer or inhale atomized concentrated cannabinoid oil mist. Smoking is not a good way to take any medicine.

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 05:48:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Been there. Done that. And I'd do it again in a (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RMForbes, CentralMass

          heartbeat if I could.

          But for me it's not worth a life sentence next time if I get busted again, so I always pass.

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:55:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not supposed to cough (0+ / 0-)

          And vapes and dabs cause huge coughing spazms. All I need to do to keep from coughing with smoking is to not inhale as much. That does not work for your 'safer' methods.

          •  How can you smoke? (0+ / 0-)

            I have COPD from Asbestosis and even strong smells can cause coughing spasms in my case. Smoking is far more irritating and far more likely to produce spasms than a vaporizer. My spasms happen when I inhale too deeply which is more likely to happen while smoking a bong than taking a hit off of a vaporizer.

            Both smoking cannabis or using a vaporizer help relax the cough response after the first hit because of the cannabinoids so I don't understand your position. There is no reason to inhale any more deeply with a vaporizer than when smoking. I think you are just set in your ways and not really willing to change.

            However, if you are trying to manage pain you should be taking cannabinoids orally for longer term relief and using inhaled cannabinoids only for acute pain episodes.  

            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

            by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 07:46:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  As long as I'm not filling my lungs (0+ / 0-)

              coughing is not an issue.

              Since you insist on imposing your POV. Let me add my two cents about your smoking crusade.

              Humans evolved. We evolved to eat cooked food. What makes you think the same factors that changed to allow digestion of essentially sterilized food did not change our respratory system as well to adapt to the smoke from cooking fires?

              If you want to DO something about lung disease your efforts are wasted going after smoking. Go after the burning of petroleum products.

              •  I understand, I'm the same way (0+ / 0-)

                My lungs begin to spasm if I breathe too deeply as well. But I still don't understand how you can smoke. When I'm around smoke of any kind I have problems.

                My point of view is based upon years of research on the medical benefits of cannabinoids and the industrial value of the cannabis plant (my website). Besides, humans haven't evolved that much in the last 5000 years. If anything we have devolved.

                You obviously haven't read many of my comments on fossil fuels. I've been advocating replacing fossil fuels with sustainable biofuels for years. I'm hoping to get a permit to grow hemp this season to reduce our communities dependence on dirty fossil fuels. Just about everything we now make from petroleum or timber can be made better, greener and less expensive from hemp.

                Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 08:50:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You don't need to understand (0+ / 0-)

                  In order to advance this discussion. It is sufficient if you believe other people when they present their own evidence of what works for them. Then, instead of nagging them, you can discuss it with them.

                  You don't know whether one of you is wrong. You could both be right about different things.

                  I have not had COPD, nor have I smoked, nor have I been subjected to really heavy pollution. But when I had pleurisy, it was MY pleurisy, and it didn't have to act like anybody else's.

                  Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                  by Mokurai on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 11:41:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Bong hits in a friends garage as a kid. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler

        Going to concerts after toking.

        Great memories stimulated by the flavors that are brought back by doing it again.

        Much more than ritual.

    •  I get the most medical benifit from smoking (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpotsmuggler

      No other method is effective for myself.

      Just because studies show veracity in what you are claiming does not mean that is optimal for everyone.

      •  Have you ever tried anything else? (0+ / 0-)

        A vaporizer eliminates about 95% of all the dangerous chemicals and hot gases produced by burning. Why would you want to put those things in your body when you can very easily avoid them? The price of vaporizers are on par with a good pipe or bong, why wouldn't you use a vaporizer instead?

        I think you misunderstand the argument around the medical benefits of cannabinoids. We are not talking about recreational use here. Smoking is just not a good way to take a medicine, smoking is associated with drug abuse and not normal use. If you are using cannabinoids medically it should be taken like any other medication.

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:36:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Everything (0+ / 0-)

          Vaporizer does little. I felt like I wasted my weed using one.

          And from your comments I'm assuming you are not taking into consideration that smoking with flame creates a different chemical matrix. But you should be aware of it.

          A bong removing 75% is sufficient.

          Recreational use?

          I have EDS-IV, how many pain free days do you think I have without weed?

          •  I'm very aware of the chemisty of cannabinoids (0+ / 0-)

            and it doesn't require a flame to convert THA to THC. In fact, the lower temperatures of a vaporizer or the concentration process that produce cannabinoid oils convert cannabinol acids at a more efficient rate.

            My 84 year old mother has been using herbal cannabis for the last four years to manage the chronic pain from fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis. She doesn't smoke it at all. She just adds a little of her homegrown high CBD, low THC strain of herbal cannabis to her meals and drinks a cup of hot cannabis tea before going to bed.

            I would be willing to bet that your pain management could be more effective if you had access to concentrated cannabinoid oils that had a better balance of CBD to THC. If the goal is not getting high CBD has significant analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties on it's own but it kills the THC high. I think you think you need to smoke it but in reality that is not the case. Hopefully, one day very soon I'll be able to prove it to you.

            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

            by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 07:21:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oils make me cough spazmodically (0+ / 0-)

              I'm 46 with my conditon and already going downhill. Do you really think my life will be extended by taking your unsolicited advice. I'm destined to have my aorta shred like a rotten garden hose, is making me use methods I KNOW are ineffective for pain, mood, or appitite going to make a whit of difference?

              Doubtful.

              •  My advice is not uneducated (0+ / 0-)

                I have seen many lives extended by the proper use of cannabinoids and a simple change in diet. One of our cancer patients had well advanced stage IV cancer with tumors growing throughout his body when he was sent to my brother by his oncologist. After just six weeks of using a concentrated oil product produced by my family his tumors began to shrink and after a year his cancer has gone into complete remission. I have seen the medicinal value of cannabinoids and whole foods many times first hand.

                I am not aware of your specific situation but I am aware of how to optimize the medicinal value of cannabinoids and smoking it is not the way. If coughing is such a problem for you, smoking anything is the last thing you should be doing. If you have access to concentrated cannabinoid oils why are you not eating it in your food or putting a drop or two under your tongue?

                I'm much older than you and I have been able to control and even reverse my heart disease with a simple change in diet, I've been a vegan for a little over a year. Whole foods can be the best medicine.

                Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 08:25:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  what part of smoking provides me with optimal (0+ / 0-)

                  results do you not understand?

                  Eating oil does not provide the same results. I do not find that method to be any better than opiates as it only serves to make me sleep. Perhaps my genetic disorder's known inabilty to utilize opiates carries over to the oils for ingestion.

                  You say you are an expert on medical benifits yet you are not aware that medications effect people differently?

                  •  I'm sorry, I'm not trying to insult you (0+ / 0-)

                    but I just don't think it's a good idea to push smoking anything as a effective way to administer an herbal drug for medicinal affect. Like it or not, smoking anything is associated with recreational use and not with medicinal use. Your situation just doesn't help those of us that are trying to end this ridiculous prohibition. I would hope you can understand my point of view and my ultimate goals.

                    I'm very aware of how drugs effect people differently. However, I still believe you are not using the correct strain of cannabis or the best CBD to THC ratio for your condition. If you were you wouldn't need to smoke it. I'm sorry but I just know better. Smoke contains hundreds of irritants that create medical problems, it doesn't have medicinal value. The medicinal value is in the cannabinoids which can be administrated more effectively without the smoke.

                    Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                    by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 09:12:19 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  See there you go again (0+ / 0-)

                      "can be administrated more effectively without the smoke".

                      If the only other method I can use only puts me to sleep. Without the mutiple other benifits I get from smoking.

                      Please tell me how it is more effective if I am not getting any pharmacological results, other than sleep?

                      I would love to not have to smoke it all the time. But if other methods do not do the job I don't see how that is better for me.

                      •  Not every strain of cannabis puts you out (0+ / 0-)

                        Some of the strains we produce don't make you sleepy at all because they have higher concentrations of CBD and CBN. Just because you tried one concentrated cannabinoid oil doesn't mean all concentrated oils will create the same results.

                        I would suggest you look for a Sativa strain of cannabis with high concentrations of both CBD and THC and try that. Don't be afraid to try strains with higher CBD to THC ratios. They won't get you as high but CBD has more anti-psychotic and anti-depressant properties than THC.

                        Once we finally end this ridiculous prohibition and we can produce inhalers and nebulizers for administering the medicine you need to improve your life since vaporizers and oral doesn't seem to work for you.  

                        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                        by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 09:53:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Well look at that. I can prove one smaill thing (0+ / 0-)

                      Oils and opioids are chemistry cousins.

                      So my genetic predispostion to opioid resistance is going to carry over.

                      RESULTS: The i.pl. injection of BCP dose-dependently attenuated capsaicin-induced nociceptive response. The antinociceptive effect produced by BCP was prevented by pretreatment with AM630, a selective CB2 receptor antagonist, but not by AM251, a selective CB1 receptor antagonist. Pretreatment with naloxone, an opioid receptor antagonist, and β-funaltrexamine, a selective μ-opioid receptor antagonist, reversed the antinociceptive effect of BCP. Pretreatment with naloxone methiodide, a peripherally acting antagonist for opioid receptors and antisera against β-endorphin, resulted in a significant antagonizing effect on BCP-induced antinociception. Morphine-induced antinociception was increased by a low dose of BCP. The increased effect of morphine in combination with BCP was antagonized significantly by pretreatment with naloxone.
                      •  Cannabinoids do not operate like opioids at all (0+ / 0-)

                        Cannabinoids and opioids operate on a completely different set of cellular receptors and they operate in completely different ways. If they did work alike then cannabinoids would have similar toxicity as opioids but they don't. In fact, cannabinoids are one of the least toxic substances known.

                        Cannabinoids do not stimulate neural transmitters like stimulants or suppress neural transmitters like depressants...they regulate them so that they operate properly. That is the function of the endocannabinoid system, it regulates blood chemistry, metabolism and the immune system at the cellular level. Just because some drug company wants to make their opioid to sound less toxic doesn't mean that opioids and cannabinoids act the same.  

                        I don't know who has told you that concentrated cannabinoid oils are in any way similar to opiates. That is just not true at all. You need to watch this video.

                        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                        by RMForbes on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 12:12:21 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  What part of nagging do you not understand? eom (0+ / 0-)

                    Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                    by Mokurai on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 11:42:13 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Nagging? (0+ / 0-)

                      It is not nagging to point out misinformation. Is it not true that smoking exposes the body to hundreds of toxic chemicals and hot gases not found in any other way to ingest cannabinoids?

                      Like it or not, smoking is associated with recreational use of drugs and not medicinal use. I'm not buying his claim that he only gets relief from smoking especially because of his lung issues. I have similar lung issues and his story just doesn't track. I think he has bought into mythology of marijuana which has developed over the decades to prevent herbal cannabinoids and the cannabis plant from competing in the marketplace. At least his narrative supports the prohibitionist position which I see as very problematic.

                      Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                      by RMForbes on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 12:49:12 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It is nagging to insist on the same information (0+ / 0-)

                        which we have duly noted, over and over and over against the clearly stated objections of those who have information that you do not, and that you won't consider seriously.

                        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                        by Mokurai on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 01:00:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  BS, I never insisted upon any information from him (0+ / 0-)

                          I have been very consistent in my argument that smoking anything is perceived by the public as only the recreational use of a drug. His narrative supports the prohibitionist propaganda that the medicinal use is really recreational use. His understanding how cannabinoids react with our bodies is not correct. He equates cannabinoids with opioids which puts up a big red flag for me. I'm sorry but I can't just let this go unchallenged.

                          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                          by RMForbes on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 01:24:05 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  No, I said that you were insisting on your (0+ / 0-)

                            information over and over and over. And now there is your misinformation about what some of us said.

                            Men of one idea, like a hen with one chick, and that a duckling.
                            Thoreau

                            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                            by Mokurai on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 01:39:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are jumping in the middle of a long (0+ / 0-)

                            conversation and are completely misrepresenting my entire argument. What part of my argument do you disagree with? Do you think I'm wrong about cannabinoids or do you believe that smoking is the only effective way to consume cannabinoids too? It's easy to call names but it's not that easy to defend a logical argument.

                            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                            by RMForbes on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 01:55:09 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's what I mean (0+ / 0-)

                            Nobody in this discussion said that only smoking works. They said that you were wrong in saying that nobody should smoke.

                            Learn to read. Learn to listen.

                            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                            by Mokurai on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 06:34:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What are you talking about? (0+ / 0-)

                            He was saying that he only got relief from his condition by smoking pot and that concentrated cannabinoid oils only caused coughing spasms and always put him to sleep. Maybe you should take your own advice.

                            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                            by RMForbes on Wed Mar 19, 2014 at 08:47:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  You didn't look up EDS (0+ / 0-)

              If you had you would have forgone telling me to eat roughage like my body could handle it.

              And as someone with chronic depression my Dr. actually wants me 'high'

              If you are a physician I feel sorry for your patients. I told you what was effective for me. Yet you insist I'm wrong.

              •  No, I'm sorry I didn't look it up and was unaware (0+ / 0-)

                of EDS until now. But I still believe it's wrong to smoke anything...especially for someone with your condition. I believe that your quality of life could be enhanced with the proper strain of cannabis administered properly. There just has to be a better way for you to get the medication you need without the added irritants in smoke.  

                Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                by RMForbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 09:30:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Everyone has different likes and needs (0+ / 0-)

              What works for you may not be as effective for me.

              I really don't like to eat dope. It doesn't help with my muscle contraction and makes me nervous which is the opposite of helpful. Creams don't work either but smoking does. It also fills in for the 30 years of smoking cigarettes which is a good thing.

      •  Thirty years later, even with nothing in between, (0+ / 0-)

        I don't have the slightest difficulty in going back to where you're coming from. There's so much of the collective history of "the wrong side" of the drug war that I hope gets recorded before it's too late.

        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

        by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 06:52:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The self censorship (0+ / 0-)

          Even with this comment recalling days of yore I'm getting called a recreational user. By someone that dosen't know enough about the subject to know different devices provide different chemical/medication results

          •  As if "recreation" is not also therapeutical. In (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Chinton

            my experience folks do what they need to do and we get it right for ourselves far, far more often than we make any sort of a truly critical mistake.

            When it comes to pot, I've done my share, I've moved more than my share, and I've observed what hardly any will ever see, and I've just come to trust the shit.

            I won't say that it's impossible to ever truly go wrong, but I've sure never seen it.

            There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

            by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 07:28:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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