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Not on purpose, of course!

Angry Rancher Cliven Bundy is demanding to graze his cattle on public land, land he does not own and has never owned, at zero cost.  The land owned and managed by the government, in trust for you and me and all Americans, is apparently Bundy's to use and abuse at will…because freedumb.

And he has used right-wing media to whip up all of the armed nut jobs in shouting range.

Apparently Bundy was granted the right to graze 150 cattle for a fee on public land, but instead decided he was going to graze 900 cattle for free.

From the Center for Biological Diversity:

Mr. Bundy has long falsely believed that Gold Butte is his ranch,” said Terri Robertson, long-time advocate for protecting the rich cultural and natural resources of Gold Butte and currently president of Friends of Sloan Canyon. “We all know that is not the reality, and it is time for him for obey the law.”

“Mr. Bundy's defiance of the law and decades-long free grazing on public lands is a poke in the eye of every rancher who rightfully pays for their use of the public lands, and a further thumb of the nose to those responsible, progressive ranchers who graze sustainably, allowing for threatened species to survive on their allotments,” said Karen Boeger, a former BLM advisory committee member.

...

“In 2005, the area suffered from widespread wildfires with catastrophic impacts on native desert vegetation,” said Jane Feldman, conservation chair for the Southern Nevada Group of the Sierra Club. “Efforts to revegetate the burned area have been severely hampered by the constant and unrestricted access of cattle and their grazing on fragile newly sprouted shoots of vegetation. In fact, controlled studies on how best to revegetate the area had to be abandoned due to the impacts from the trespass cattle.

...

“The point cannot be lost that Mr. Bundy is an affront and potential danger to the safety of the public servants — men and women who have chosen to get into this work because they love the land — and the contract wranglers who have been hired to round up the herd,” said Alan O’Neill, former superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. “For too long, Mr. Bundy’s bullying and threats have stopped the appropriate action in seizing his herd and levying fines. To allow him to continue to flout laws that others adhere to is certainly an affront to all Americans.”

And this:
"Despite having no legal right to do so, cattle from Bundy’s ranch have continued to graze throughout the Gold Butte area, competing with tortoises for food, hindering the ability of plants to recover from extensive wildfires, trampling rare plants, damaging ancient American Indian cultural sites and threatening the safety of recreationists,” the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity said in a statement.
And we, the taxpayers, get to pick up the tab for all the work that must be done to deal with this angry, ill-informed nut and all the damage done by his trespass cattle.

The crux of Mr. Bundy's argument which allows him to act like he owns land he does not own and has never owned appears to be this:

A father of 14, Bundy insists that generations of his family have ranched and worked this unforgiving landscape along the Virgin River since the 1880s.

...

The Bundy family vows the war will continue.

“My ancestors created the rights to that land one hundred and some odd years ago,” Bailey Logue [Bundy family member] said. “And we’re not giving them up.”

So the Bundy family ANCESTORS created the rights by being present on the land and using it.  The formation of nations and states, constitutions, and the passage of laws ARE IRRELEVANT.  Even the Nevada Constitution which states that the land is federal land.  That is their argument.

Therefore I assume the Bundy family is in favor of turning over large portions of the United States of America to the Native Americans, as their obvious claims certainly predate this country and all of its laws.  Certainly the Native Americans' claims predate the Bundys' 1880 claims.

===============

Can we all explore this question on twitter?  Cliven Bundy, do Native Americans have claims to their ancestral lands just like you claim to?

Using Bundy's argument, does the land then really belong to Native Americans? #BundyRanch
Fox News has requested information related to this story be tagged #BundyRanch.

Right wingers who have been hot on exploiting this incident:

@FoxNews
@MattFinnFNC
@Hannity
@RedState
@EWErickson
@CharlieDaniels
@MichelleMalkin
@GlennBeck
@TheBlaze
@BreitbartNews
@RealAlexJones
@WalshFreedom
@DLoesch
@ChrisLoesch
@HeyTammyBruce
@BryanJFischer
@Greg_AbbottTX

And while you're at it:

@ReviewJournal (Las Vegas)
@8NewsNow
@Lawrence
@Maddow
@ChrisLHayes
@EdShow
@ThinkProgress
@AP
@Politico
@LOLGOP

Using Bundy's argument, does the land then really belong to Native Americans? #BundyRanch
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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for bringing us up to date on this AWilson. (14+ / 0-)

    What is the government going to do about this?

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 01:45:53 PM PDT

  •  No, you don't understand. Mr. Bundy has (7+ / 0-)

    worked the land, not just left it alone and treasured it. For generations, the Bundys have put the land to its highest use - to make a profit for the family.

    North American Indians cannot possibly make as good a case for holding the land, because no matter how long they've been residents, they've never sufficiently subscribed to the dream of looting the land for their own purposes and the hell with everybody else. The same standard applies to those gubment wimps.

    See? It's a simple case.

    At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

    by serendipityisabitch on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 02:56:10 PM PDT

    •  North American Indians (0+ / 0-)

      The Solutrean-Clovis connection (more formally known as the "North Atlantic Ice-Edge Corridor Hypothesis") is one theory of the peopling of the American continents that suggests that Upper Paleolithic Solutrean culture is ancestral to Clovis. This idea has its roots in the 19th century, when archaeologists such as CC Abbott postulated that the Americas had been colonized by Paleolithic Europeans. After the Radiocarbon Revolution, however, this idea fell into disuse, only to be revived in the late 1990s by archaeologists Bruce Bradley and Dennis Stanford.

      Bradley and Stanford argue that at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum, ca 25,000-15,000 radiocarbon years ago, the Iberian peninsula of Europe became a steppe-tundra, forcing Solutrean populations to the coasts. Maritime hunters then traveled northward along the ice margin up the European coast and around the North Atlantic Sea. They point out that the perennial Arctic ice at the time would have formed an ice bridge connecting Europe and North America. Ice margins have intense biological productivity, and would have provided a major food source.

      Cultural Similarities

      Bradley and Stanford further point out that there are similarities in the stone tools. Bifaces are systematically thinned with an overshot flaking method in both Solutrean and Clovis cultures. Solutrean leaf-shaped points are similar in outline and share some (but not all) Clovis construction techniques. Further, Clovis assemblages often include a cylindrical ivory shaft or point made from a mammoth tusk or the long bones of bison. Other bone tools were often included in both assemblages, such as needles and bone shaft straighteners.

      However, Eren (2013) has commented that the similarities between "controlled overshot flaking" method for bifacial stone tool manufacture are accidental products created incidentally and inconsistently as a part of biface thinning. He argues that, based on his own experimental archaeology, overshot flaking in Clovis and Solutrean assemblages is the result of both sets of flint-knappers removing overshot flakes.

      Problems with Solutrean/Clovis

      The most prominent opponent of the Solutrean connection is Lawrence Guy Straus. Straus points out that the LGM forced people out of western Europe into southern France and the Iberian peninsula by about 25,000 radiocarbon years ago. There were no people at all living north of the Loire Valley of France during the Last Glacial Maximum, and no people in the southern part of England until after about 12,500 BP. The similarities between Clovis and Solutrean cultural assemblages are far outweighed by the differences. Clovis hunters were not users of marine resources, either fish or mammal; the Solutrean hunter-gatherers used land-based hunting supplemented by littoral and riverine but not oceanic resources.

      Most essentially, the Solutreans of the Iberian peninsula lived 5,000 radiocarbon years earlier and 5,000 kilometers directly across the Atlantic from the Clovis hunter-gatherers.

      PreClovis and Solutrean

      Since the discovery of credible Preclovis sites, Bradley and Stanford now argue for a Solutrean origin of Preclovis culture. The diet of Preclovis is definitely more maritime-oriented, and the dates are closer in time to Solutrean. However, the stone technology is not the same as Clovis, and the discovery of an ivory rhinoceros horn tool at the Yana RHS site in Western Beringia has somewhat lessened the strength of the technology argument.

    •  Many native Americans also worked the land (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      serendipityisabitch
      •  True. Nor were they saints, one presumes. But my (0+ / 0-)

        comment was to indict Mr. Bundy, rather than to raise any real issues of Native American culture.

        At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

        by serendipityisabitch on Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 12:14:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  16,000 Other Public Land Farmers Pay The Fee..... (7+ / 0-)

    why should Bundy graze for free?  A federal judge in Las Vegas
    ordered Bundy to remove his trespassing cattle in l998.

    The feds have been working w/ this farmer for 20 years.  He now owes taxes in excess of $1 MILLION dollars.

    It is a matter of fairness & equity.  The government has tried to resolve the grazing issue w/ the man outside court.

    The feds are concerned now w/ the safety of their employees & the public in general.  Bundy may want another Ruby Ridge/Waco type of confrontation, but he's not going to get it even w/ all his FB supporters gathering w/ their ire & their guns & "don't tread on me flags" & constitutional references.

    The Feds have stepped back momentarily, but they'll be back.  That's the one thing Mr Bundy can count on.  

  •  Great Diary AWilson. We'll just have to wait for (5+ / 0-)

    news of this nasty welfare rancher getting the payday he deserves. His theft from honest taxpayers and his destructive grazing on our land isn't worth getting any BLM killed.

    You really nailed it.

  •  Seize his cattle as payment for back fees (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlackSheep1, AWilson, Pale Jenova

    Problem solved

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

    by jfern on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 04:51:23 PM PDT

    •  The feds could also freeze his bank and investment (0+ / 0-)

      accounts, as well as put a lien and force a sale on his private ranch
      Additionally, they could also block road access into the public lands where his cattle are, shoot the cattle out on the range, and make Bundy pay for their removal

  •  it's a start, jfern: but the cattle he's running (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SensibleShoes, AWilson

    illegally won't pay the whole debt not even counting this year's graze.

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 at 04:53:16 PM PDT

  •  Bundy (0+ / 0-)

    You guys need to wake up

    https://www.youtube.com/...

    This is a government land grab

    This is NOT about tortoises

    http://rt.com/...

    Federal funds for a Nevada-based desert tortoise conservation center are running dry and wildlife officials plan to close the facility and euthanize hundreds of tortoises that were once classified as “endangered” and are currently considered “threatened.”

  •  Bundy Stand Off (0+ / 0-)

    I just want you guys to all know, I am a vegan and I am very much for everyone being a vegan, but this whole thing is a government land grab, plain and simple. We all need to stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated by the media and stop letting the government divide us, because guess what kids... they do not care about any of us. It's time for all of us to unite because it is the elites against us, the "common" people

    •  Yes we are all being deceived by the government (0+ / 0-)

      who is grabbing land that IS federal government administered land since Nevada was admitted to the Union.

      Who is "they"?

      In this case it is pretty clear that the "elites" are NOT the ones on the government side, it is the millionaire rancher who is being supported by the protofascists in the AFP and NRA.

    •  This is a land grab orchestrated by big business (0+ / 0-)

      to destroy not just the public land system, but also to destroy the public grazing commons, a tradition that stretches centuries back to ancient Europe

  •  shoot illegal cattle (0+ / 0-)

    BLM agents should shoot Bundy's cattle.  That would solve the problem of overgrazing fragile desert land, and send the message that the BLLM has finally run out of patience with this guy flouting the law for decades.

    •  No, just seize them as payment (0+ / 0-)

      Not that it would pay the debt, but the cattle themselves aren't at fault.

      And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

      by Pale Jenova on Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 07:27:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As a tax Payer (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pale Jenova

    I want Bundy off this land immediately if he does not pay his bill with interest. It is free loaders like this who want something for nothing that is ruining this country.

  •  Bundy ancestors not from Nevada. (0+ / 0-)

    Originally from Illinois, the Mormon patriarch Abraham Bundy (born 1859) moved his young family to Mohave County, Arizona about 1897 (twenty years after the claimed 1877). Previous to that, they'd lived in Nebraska. Bundyville, a defunct town in Mohave County, Arizona, is named for this family and pretty much all of them are buried there in the Mt Trumbull Cemetery.  

    Cliven's father David Ammon Bundy was born in Mohave County, AZ and as late as WWII, he was still living there. He is apparently the family member who moved to Nevada, sometime between 1942 and 1996. He died there in 1996.  Cliven's son Ammon (he of the bloody taser wound) is named for him.  

    No telling when David Ammon Bundy arrived in Clark County, Nevada, but it was at least 70 years after the claimed 1877.

    For perspective, Clark County, Nevada is adjacent to Mohave County, Arizona but it is desolate land with few roads and lots of geographical formations that make traveling difficult. The 92 miles between Bunkerville, NV and Bundyville, Arizona takes over 3 hrs by car.  

    We are all in this together.

    by htowngenie on Sun Apr 13, 2014 at 09:11:15 AM PDT

    •  yes, actually he does (0+ / 0-)

      Bundy can claim lineage from the Iversons, among others, who were original Mormon settlers in Bunkerville.  His grandfather, Roy Bundy, married an Iverson woman.  It is true what you say about the Bundy's, but he does have other ancestors.  That is not to say that I agree with him about the supposed "rights" to graze this land for free.

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