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Tom the Dancing Bug, by @RubenBolling.  Be the FIRST to see the comic every week by joining the INNER HIVE!

"My only argument with Ruben B. here is his apologetic tone for asking you to pay money for early access to his very good comics -- that is to say, something that YOU LIKE AND WANT. DO NOT APOLOGIZE, RUBEN." -John Hodgman, Charter INNER HIVE member

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Originally posted to Comics on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 06:50 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Guilt trip!!! (4+ / 0-)
    •  None here (7+ / 0-)

      I'm an omnivore. I eat vegetable matter and I eat meat.
      I've even killed both plants and animals to eat them.

      But, I don't kill for enjoyment and I don't want my entertainment to be at the cost of harm to an animal or human.

      So, is there a contradiction? No, if I kill an animal for food, I do it in the most painless, humane way possible.
      Because, humans are by design of our evolution, omnivores.

      Now, if you want a tirade, I'll go on about factory farms, the tasteless beef in this country, etc.
      You'll also get genuine sadness that I'm stuck with largely that factory farm meat and vegetables, I'm not wealthy and I don't have a large enough property to raise my own food. So, I'm stuck with paying for factory farmed pork, chicken and real lamb and goat.

      •  Excuses, excuses (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JuliathePoet

        Boohoo, I feel so sorry for you. And it is truly laughable to hear you describe the taking of someone's very life with bs words like "painless" & "humane". You, clearly, need to understand what those words mean.

        •  Excuse me, but ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jqb, kirnerpilstime

          ... I tend to think that cows, pigs, chickens, etc., are stretching the definition of "someone".  PEOPLE are someone.  If you want to extend someone-ness to lower animals, presumably because they're alive, just like we are, I'll point out that plants are alive too, so how come they aren't "someone"?

          Yes, you can TALK to a cow, a pig, or a chicken, but it isn't going to give you much more of an answer than that head of lettuce, now, is it?  My wife talks to her plants when she waters them - even her tomatoes, and guess what happens to them?

          OF COURSE the New Right is wrong - but that doesn't make WRONG the new RIGHT!

          by mstaggerlee on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 12:23:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hypocrisy is the tastiest meat ;) (0+ / 0-)

    Oh, and FK the cow. Blow it up, then barbeque it for the after party! ;)

    •  At least it didn't die in vain. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Jester

      Anyone remember "Monkey Shines," in which a paralyzed man has a monkey assistant, but they're psychically linked and the monkey starts acting out his rage? 2-3 people are killed by the critter, which eventually meets a violent death at its master's hand, and there was a disclaimer that "No animals were harmed during filming." Too funny.

      •  People seem to forget (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        visionblack

        humans are animals too. If someone accidentally gets punched for real in the course of filming a fight, an animal has been hurt. At least one human animal was killed during the filming of the 1959 Ben-Hur. Every time an accident hurts a human, an animal has been hurt. We've got to stop thinking of ourselves as something different and above the animal kingdom.

        The value of an idea has nothing whatsoever to do with the sincerity of the man who expresses it.--Oscar Wilde

        by Gene in L A on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:31:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What's the problem? (6+ / 0-)

    Killing animals for fun: bad.
    Killing animals for food: perfectly normal.

    This is not hypocrisy by any stretch of the imagination.

    •  yes it is hypocrisy (6+ / 0-)

      if you are against cruelty and support industrial facgtory farming.

      •  Reading too much into it (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dconrad, jqb

        The cartoon doesn't say anything about industrial factory farming.

        But either way, similar levels of harm can become more or less objectionable based on the benefits.  Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

        •  Okay then (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:
          jqb

          So, if I suddenly decide that you look pretty tasty & kill you, that would be okay?

          The only difference is that human scumbags think that they are the only animal, who deserves any reverence or legal protection. That's it. You're a selfish fool.

          •  Since I'm actually involved I guess I have a say (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dconrad, hfjai, jqb, LtPowers

            We raise animals for food, Katahdin sheep to be specific. We raise them with the respect and compassion that all living things deserve. Then we kill them with the same respect and compassion. I doubt if any of you self-righteous vegetarian types have watched an herbivore get killed by a predator. It is not pretty, quick, humane or respectful. I doubt if any of you have watched an old herbivore suffer as they go blind, can no longer digest their food properly, and can barely get up from crippling arthritis of their joints.

            Everything dies. Which death is more "humane"? A slow, suffering death or a quick one where the animal has its head in a feeder of its favorite food and an experienced, caring person puts a single shot in its brain ending its life instantly?

            The hardest part of my season is when my animals are killed but I take pride in doing it well and with love and respect for the animals I have taken responsibility for. I can't sell you my lamb for $5 a pound because it costs more to raise them the way I do but I can assure you there is meat available that is healthy for you and has been cared for appropriately. You just have to be willing to pay the price it costs to produce it that way.

            I might add that none of my animals suffer the way humans do in many hospitals and nursing homes.

          •  False dichotomy (0+ / 0-)

            It's not all or nothing, you know. I'm capable of recognizing different degrees of sapience and thus different degrees of protection deserved.

      •  The moral (0+ / 0-)

        of this pic shows how we humans really feel for animals, especially when we watch them in a movie and they get killed. From Bambi to Free Willy, we feel for the animals.  The moral of the story, is that compassion ends when it's dinner time.

        It is hypocrisy, but it doesn't have to be. In the US & most European countries, living in consumerist societies, letting go of eating meat is easy.  They even make meat substitutes.

        Real quick though, we don't ALL have to becomes vegans & vegetarians (though its mega healthy as long as you don't survive on fries & chips) the way to solve the problem is easy:

        Reform the food industry. End the cruel practices of Factory Farming. Embolden the organic farmers who let their animals actually walk around, eat greens (vs the corn the give them in factory farms) and then when it's time, they are killed in a more humane way (slit throat by the farmer who raised them (vs a bolt in the back head moments before they are sawed apart, sometimes not yet dead).

        It might drive the cost of meat up, it make mean we as a society live less off of fast food burgers/chicken nuggets, but in the end people would be healthier, feel way better about eating meat, as they would know that the animals whose meat their eating, lived a normal cow/chicken/pig, etc life & weren't tortured or forced to "live" in piss poor, shoulder to shoulder, extremely crowded conditions until they were turned into your dinner.

    •  Bolling doesn't get point of animal cruelty laws (6+ / 0-)

      The point of animal cruelty laws isn't to prevent killing (fun or otherwise) but to minimize pain and suffering. I appreciate ironic humor as much as anyone, but it's important to understand the distinction here, because we use and kill animals all the time, and not just for meat. Since that's not going to stop any time soon, we had better make sure it is done humanely, and that's no joke.  

      "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

      by quill on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 08:36:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Animal cruelty laws don't apply to industrial (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Arfeeto, buffalo soldier, cipher14

        farming. When you eat meat it comes from animal cruelty.

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:38:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  false assumptions (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chopper

          You're making at least two false assumptions:

          All meat is factory farmed.

          All factory farmed meat is inhumanely produced.

          Ergo, everyone who eats meat has only two choices: support factory farming and cruelty or stop eating meat.

          That's bogus. Maybe the film crew buffet, and the family were eating local / organic / humanely slaughtered meat? Seems likely given Hollywood's obsession with PCness and that it's unlikely the family could have purchased a whole pig from a factory farm.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:49:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The vast, vast majority of meat is factory farmed (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RLF, Arfeeto, buffalo soldier, Klaus, cipher14

            and even the meat that isn't is almost always sent to the same slaughter houses.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:56:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you can buy certified humane meat (2+ / 0-)

              It sometimes costs more, because it's usually also organic, but you can avoid factory farmed meat, eggs and other animal products. These products can be found in many supermarkets, like Safeway.

              http://certifiedhumane.org/

              The problems with factory farmed meat are very real, but factory farmed meat is not the only choice, and in any case it would be more productive to change the laws to improve slaughter practices, since everyone's not going to run out an turn vegan tomorrow. Which is kind of my original point.

              "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

              by quill on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:32:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It always costs more (3+ / 0-)

                and the availability of factory farms depresses the price further. If there were no factory farms then the price of meat would be massive. All of which elides the point here. Te vast majority of meat comes form factory farms. So you can talk all you want about how there are some special cows that are treated well, but that's not the reality of meat. Meat comes from torture and killing, and the tiny number of "humane" options really don't change that fact.

                And really, the cartoon was about a movie which claims "No animals were harmed in the making of this film." Killing an animal is harming it, even if you're really nice to it before you kill it.

                And of course that all leaves out the environmental impact.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:47:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  What? (0+ / 0-)

                You want to change the laws regarding slaughter practices?  But that would require the involvement of government!  Don't you know that "government is the problem" as St. Ronald so famously stated?

            •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

              For setting the record straight. Of course these selfish tools don't want to hear anything like the truth.

          •  Harmed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, buffalo soldier

            Cruelty or not, killing an animal amounts to harming it.

            When you make the jump from 'harm' to 'cruelty' you're replacing Bolling's sentiments with your own message. You're attacking him based not on what he said, but rather, on what you chose to replace his words with.

    •  Choosing to eat animals when there (3+ / 0-)

      are other option that don't involve killing animals. When you eat meat because you like the taste you are killing animals for fun, your fun.

      No War but Class War

      by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:28:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fine. YOU get to find some protein source (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dconrad

        for my sister who can't eat wheat (seitan's out) or soy (ditto tofu) - one that won't bankrupt her. No rush.

        Thank God, the Bob Fosse Kid is here! - Colin Mochrie

        by gardnerhill on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:34:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ooookay (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dconrad, jqb

        Considering that humans are omnivores, I think reasonable people can disagree on how many hoops humans can be expected to jump through to avoid killing animals for food.

        •  I don't disagree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dconrad

          And we obviously do disagree. But people here in the Us normally eat animals because we choose to, not because we have to. Certainly, that isn't universally true, but it's nearly so. When we chose to do something we don't have to then there's generally a reason we have said preference, in this case its an aesthetic choice we make. We do so because it's more fun than eating vegetables or whatever other alternative there is. Just because we have to eat doesn't mean that everything we eat is a necessity.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 07:25:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Granted (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dconrad, jqb

            But again it comes down to where individuals put the balance point between harm to animals and the inconvenience of maintaining a vegetarian diet.  There's no single right or wrong answer to that, and vegetarians who feel that everyone should come to the same conclusion they do are wrong.

            And that's why it's not hypocritical to condemn killing animals for one purpose while condoning it for other purposes.

            •  Yes it is. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pucifer

              And btw, there's NO inconvenience being vegan, we eat better than anyone (no feces, urine, blood, bones, e-coli, etc., etc., etc., do deal with in my kitchen, AND I consider it a BLESSING that cruddy places like McDonald's are off limits). You don't know what you're talking about...Either that, or you are so desperate to hang on to your selfish, destructive choices, that you'll say anything.

        •  Wake up (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pucifer

          If we were so callously discussing using you for the same ends, you'd be singing an altogether different tune. You should just admit that you DON'T GIVE A SHIT about how they are made to suffer for your trifling use.

    •  Agree that it's wrong to kill animals (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, marina, Arfeeto

      only for fun.  But some hunters strive for humane kills and use the animal for food and even clothing.  

      It is true however that some hunters just like to kill for the fun of it.  That's why I stopped hunting - I couldn't stand being around asshole hunters.

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:26:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This cartoon needs more bacon. (9+ / 0-)

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 07:36:51 AM PDT

  •  But Ruben, I Need to Ask . . . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    why have you singled out Chagrin Falls, OH? What is it supposed to represent?

    "A famous person once said, 'You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.' But as I once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like." – Max Headroom

    by midnight lurker on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 07:59:43 AM PDT

  •  Meat is nature's candy! :3 nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    psnyder, marina

    "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

    by Stude Dude on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 08:58:38 AM PDT

  •  How do you now someone eats meat? (2+ / 0-)

    Don't worry, they'll tell you. Oh how will they tell you.

    No War but Class War

    by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:26:37 AM PDT

    •  whereas (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gardnerhill, TexasTom, dconrad

      vegetarians and vegans never tell you about what they do and don't eat. not ever.

      anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

      by chopper on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:10:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, when you have a dietary restriction it's (4+ / 0-)

        important to inform people of that dietary restriction. When you eat something that everyone else eats it shouldn't be a big deal, and yet even here tons of people feel the need to scream about how much they love meat when anyone talks about vegetarianism. And they top it off by claiming that vegetarians and vegans always tell them that they are vegetarian or vegan. Oh the hypocrisy!

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:22:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  lol (0+ / 0-)

          yes, vegetarians and vegans never, ever lecture others about how they don't eat animal products. but meat eaters are always screaming about how much they love to eat meat.

          it's like how white people drive like this, but black people, they drive like this.

          anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

          by chopper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 10:45:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There were at least five examples (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rai

            of meat eaters screaming about eating meat in this comment section alone. And for what reason? I don't know. You completely ignored the point, vegetarians and vegans tell people they are such because it involves their diet and the restriction on it. The constant claim that vegans and vegetarians will always tell you that they are vegan or vegetarian is stupid because they have a reason to do so, meat eaters have no good reason except for some weird tribalism, or something. Maybe you can explain it to me.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 11:10:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

              'screaming', you say? like ALL CAPS or something? SHUT UP I EAT MEAT, ASSHOLE! that sort of thing?

              i didn't see any 'screaming'. i did see some meat-eaters stupidly being all 'needs more bacon' and some veggies smugly making it known how sorry they feel for the immoral meat-eaters. but no screaming.

              having a dietary restriction in and of itself is a silly reason to just up and tell someone what you eat or don't eat, and certainly to lecture someone who eats something else. i don't go telling anyone who will listen what my dietary restrictions are as if they're interested.

              i'm not sure what i dislike more, gregarious meat-eaters who make sure to tell me they eat meat (so hah!) or vegans who just have to tell me exactly what they do and don't eat and how sorry they feel for me because i'm not like them, but i don't pretend that one of them is just fine. this smacks of the same tribalism you're attacking: "it's okay when vegetarians do it because (insert made-up reason)"

              anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

              by chopper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 01:07:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Exclamation points would be yelling (0+ / 0-)

                and the first two comments are just that. As well as other comments.

                this smacks of the same tribalism you're attacking
                I'm pretty shitty at tribalism then, because I eat meat. I was a vegetarian for a long time though, which is how I came to notice the tendency of meat eaters to start yelling about how much they love meat when the subject comes up at all.

                But to your point, yes, some vegans totally do proselytize, I knew one of those. But there is this myth that they're this super common person that is out there constantly yelling at people who eat meat and no one has any rest. The reality is that the amount of advertising for meat is staggering. Somewhere around 90% of food advertising is for meat. So when a few people react to that by screaming about how meat is murder at some kid eating a burger I can't say I think it's a good plan or especially useful, but it's hardly comparable to the folks who feel it necessary to comment about how great meat is every time the subject comes up.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 01:33:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  lolwut? (0+ / 0-)

                  the first comment is from a vegetarian. OMG VEGETARIANS SCREAMING!! WHY WON'T THEY STOP YELLING

                  the second comment is merely the words 'guilt trip!'. whoopdeefuckingdoo.

                  i mean, read the thread. there is no 'screaming'. when the subject came up there was some shitty 'meat-guy snark' and some shitty 'vegan smug'.

                  and a bunch of regular talk, but apparently that fell by the wayside in an attempt to paint one side as being the bad guys who are assholes and scream all the time.

                  anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

                  by chopper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 01:45:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry, second and third responses (0+ / 0-)

                    not first and second.

                    And if you think I'm talking about "bad guys" then you pretty clearly didn't read my entire comment. Please read it again.

                    No War but Class War

                    by AoT on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 01:54:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  lol (0+ / 0-)

                      so if exclamation points mean 'screaming', then i guess the first comment (by a vegetarian) is also 'screaming'. what is with vegetarians always screaming about what they eat?! why won't they leave us alone??

                      anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

                      by chopper on Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 02:02:26 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

  •  But...but...BACON! (0+ / 0-)

    We have it within our power to make the world over again ~ Thomas Paine

    by occupystephanie on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 09:34:56 AM PDT

  •  Reminds me of when I used to hunt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chopper, TexasTom

    and would be accosted for killing animals by people dressed in dead animal skins who ate meat every day.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 10:23:25 AM PDT

  •  I think of the white tourists in San Francisco... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, TexasTom

    that I've seen assailing Chinese-Americans at the farmer's market for Being Cruel because they sold live chickens for home consumption - just before THEY went over the hill to have a live crab dunked in boiling water for THEIR lunch. But it's okay because Crabs are Ugly, or something.

    (Full disclosure: I'm a card-carrying omnivore who looks forward to Dungeness season every year - and who is currently chomping through a mountain of shredded cruciferous salad mix from Trader Joe's.)

    Thank God, the Bob Fosse Kid is here! - Colin Mochrie

    by gardnerhill on Thu Apr 17, 2014 at 12:32:05 PM PDT

  •  Cow vids (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT


  •  Even the progressive liberals at Daily Kos... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rai

    Support cruelty to animals.

    Because the slaughter and eating of animals, whether factory farmed or not, is cruel.

    So when even so-called progressives and liberals selfishly justify the eating of meat, it's both hypocritical and ignorant. Because NOBODY needs to eat meat to live. You are only perpetuating a barbaric and horrific system of exploitation that enriches the privileged corporate class, as usual.

    •  right, and dying a slow. lingering death isn't (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dconrad, hfjai, jqb, kkkkate

      cruel.

      Death by being torn apart by a coyote, a dog, or cougar (puma) is kind and humane?

      And boy howdy, those of us who are working as farmers on a small scale certainly are "perpetuating a barbaric and horrific system of exploitation that enriches the privileged corporate class."

      You might want to collect a little more information about us before you make such arbitrary and definitive statements.

      There is a wonderful quote from Mark Twain, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

      •  Small Family Animal Killer? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rai

        As a farmer, you make a living off the exploitation and suffering of animals.

        I don't see any difference between that and any other type of capitalist/corporate exploitation. You certainly aren't doing animals any favors when you steal their children, cut their heads off, and gorge on their flesh.

        As for your cheap insult, I don't know if Mark Twain was a vegetarian, but before you go quoting him at the next person, you should know that Twain positioned himself firmly against cruelty to animals:

        "I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't... The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
        --Mark Twain

        •  Got to love it when someone makes your point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jqb, kkkkate, kirnerpilstime

          for you.

          Since you obviously don't know the definition of "vivisection" allow me to bring you up to speed.

          "the practice of performing operations on live animals for the purpose of experimentation or scientific research."

          If anyone did that to my animals there would be a very unpleasant scene. We're not performing experiments here, we're raising food. It's obvious you're not paying attention to what I'm about because if you were you'd realize that I am also very firmly against cruelty to animals.

          We don't "steal" our ewes' children. We wean the ram lambs at 4 months and let them spend the summer with their fathers. This is done because we don't neuter them and to leave them with the flock any longer would result in unplanned and badly timed breedings. The ewe lambs are left with their mothers until slaughter.

          If you can afford to "gorge" yourself on lamb you've got more money than most small farmers have. Our meat is eaten as a special treat at special events and we are honored that our customers consider what we raise to be worthy of a place on their table for their celebrations.

          Pucifer, do yourself a favor and learn a little more about grassfed ruminants. They allow humans to improve the fertility of land that isn't useful for growing grains and vegetables. They take grass (which humans aren't equipped to digest) and convert it into a high quality protein that is nutritious and wholesome. They help protect our land from fire by eating down grass,weeds, and brush and they improve the health of our pasture by stimulating plant growth through carefully managed grazing and the fertilization provided by their urine and manure.

          Done correctly what we do benefits plants, animals, the environment, and humans. What Big Ag does with animals is blasphemous and a black mark on our society. Lumping farmers like me with Big Ag is disingenuous and disrespectful.

          Somehow I doubt what I say will have any influence on what you already are sure you know. Perhaps our dialogue will be useful to other readers which is the only reason I responded to you.

          •  So, "slaughtering" animals is not exploitation? (0+ / 0-)

            Seriously? You use animals for your own ends and profit including slaughtering them for food but somehow you are different from or better than Big Ag?

            Sorry, not buying it.

            Killing animals is not "good" for them. It's only good for you. And that's my point. You are as selfish and exploitative as any for-profit corporation including and especially Big Ag.

            And yes, please, don't waste any more of my time and your time with your illogical arguments.

            •  Thank you, Pucifer. (0+ / 0-)

              I'm new here, and am unfamiliar with the way they do things; however, I find it interesting, that when we all were not laughing along with the hilarious joke about cruelty to animals, they stopped allowing us the 'recommend' button. I really wanted to thank you, & let you know, I'm grateful for anyone with the fortitude & courage it takes to stand up against cruelty & injustice.

              You keep up the good work. The animals need more like you.

          •  One injustice does not justify another. (0+ / 0-)

            You can cite all the other horrible ways we treat animals all day long, but it will never justify what you're doing to them.

        •  You can't be serious (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kkkkate

          Plants scream... and retreat from harm.  Nature is violent and often quite cruel.  Where do you draw the line?  Do you think insects or bacteria don't have a desire to live?  Mankind has the capacity to survive with their natural diet WITHOUT cruelty.  We alone have this ability and desire.  I take pride in that, as a human.  Unfortunately, the one thing mankind has that nature otherwise doesn't... is sadism.

          Btw, a human's natural diet is omnivorous- if there's any dietary element that was NOT intended by nature, it's grains, not meat.

          That being said... I have great animosity towards the cruelty that is perpetrated by factory farming.  I'm also completely supportive of those who choose to be vegetarian.  It can be quite healthy if you can afford to do it right.  I disagree with vegans.  I believe that is a diet that is quite unhealthy.  Then again, so is a diet of McDonald's.  We each have a right to eat as healthy or unhealthy as we choose.

          Never trust anyone who considers "bleeding heart" to be an insult.

          by jayfrenchstudios on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 07:48:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Anyone every notice we only care about the cute (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jqb, kkkkate

    animals?   Fuzzy cows and sheep with big eyes melt our hearts.  But how many people get into a dither about killing a lizard or a wasp or a house fly or an earth worm?  

    It amuses me when any vegetarian tries to take the moral high ground over the fact they avoid eating 'cute' life forms.  Who was it who said "I am a vegetarian not because I love animals but because I hate plants!"?

    And if you study a little about the way plants defend themselves against predation you wouldn't blithely assert that eating plants is healthier than eating animals.   Some of those tongue-tingling flavors are caused by neuro-toxins.

    Let everyone eat what s/he wants and keep our noses out of it.

    -- illegitimi non carborundum

    by BadBoyScientist on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:17:27 AM PDT

  •  Cue defensive carnivore reaction in 3-2-1... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rai

    Feel trickled on yet?

    by War4Sale on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:05:49 AM PDT

  •  Only one kind way to do it (0+ / 0-)

    Go vegan.

  •  We choose it, animals don't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pucifer, visionblack, Rai

    You're missing the point if you think that humane slaughter is OK; this is an oxymoron (emphasis on the moron). The very definition of slaughter is violence. Even animals who have range of the outside and get sunshine and fresh air, such as it is, meet a violent end; they're still killed. Ninety-nine percent of the animals eaten in this country are raised on factory farms where they are confined either in barns (about 3,000 chickens to a barn) or pigs who live in a pen barely big enough to lie down. And if you're vegetarian, you may as well make the leap to veganism--animals on dairy farms have it just as bad.

    One way to stop climate change, save animals, the planet and ourselves, is to eat a vegan diet.

    Human beings choose their lifestyle and animals are innocent bystanders who always get the short end of the stick. It's time to stop using animals as if they don't matter and as if cruelty in all of its forms is OK. There are many traditions that need to end.

  •  we dont all have to bbq boca-burgers.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kkkkate

    No one is forcing anyone to stop eating meat. This picture captures the hypocrisy in of food culture as it relates to animals.

    This is an issue that needs to be resolved. We just need to say, we as a society, we as a country that we want to be able to eat a hamburger or hot dog without the guilt of knowing it came from an animal who was locked up in a cage it's whole life & treated as if it's life meant nothing, that it wasn't a valued creature that deserved to be able to live in harmony in this world, but a means to make a profit for a factory farm/fast food company/store, etc.

    Ending the bad aspects of factory farming would mean meat eaters would be safer, for the animals, millions of chickens will still have beaks & be able to see the light of day for once (instead of being locked in a dark room all it's life until it's killed so it can be used as food).

  •  I eat meat but support animal cruelty laws (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jqb, kkkkate

    It's not hypocritical, and I'll explain why.  Now, you may well disagree with eating meat, and I respect that.  There are numerous great arguments for avoiding meat.

    Alternately, you may feel that, although you have nothing against eating meat, some current methods of agriculture merit being eliminated under the auspices of animal cruelty prohibitions.  That's a good thought, but not the apparent subject here.  

    Among those who disagree with eating meat, a small subset may actually be inhumane toward fellow humans, using feigned concern for other species as an moral fig leaf as they hurl insults, even threats, or even to make violent attacks - behaviors clearly not intended to persuade.  This, of course, is the rankest possible hypocrisy.  "I'm compassionate, so I love cows, therefore I get a pass on any behavior toward any human, in the ostensible name of defending cows".  Note that hoping to persuade others cannot be used as an excuse here, since the behaviors exhibited are the least persuasive possible.  And that these hypocrites don't care about the rights of cockroaches or intestinal parasites.  Yet, if pigs are completely equated with humans, why are rats not equated with pigs, and cockroaches not equated with rats?  They're all animals.  If it's hypocrisy to favor humans over cows, it's equal hypocrisy to favor cows over flies.  This is NOT an argument against vegetarianism, but it is an argument against railing that special rights for a small group of species is inherently different than special rights for one species.

    Here's the way it works though - animal cruelty laws do not exist to prevent animals from being killed for meat.   They exist to prevent the suffering of certain kinds of animals, but use of animals for meat, or for the much more noble purpose of scientific research, is exempted.  I totally oppose behaviors that violate animal cruelty laws and would love to see the laws made even stronger.  Animal cruelty laws are exceedingly speciesist.  They aren't remotely thought to apply to insects.  They are concerned largely with mammals, especially domestic mammals.  They were inspired mainly to protect horses, with some eye to cats and dogs as well.  

    •  More white noise geared to support selfish choices (0+ / 0-)

      If you can't tell the difference between your dog, a blade of grass & an intestinal parasite, I pity you.

      •  your comment is unethical (0+ / 0-)

        After this comment, I will do the thing you fear most, and ignore you, but first I will permit myself the indulgence of one reply.

        Your comment is unethical on a number of levels.

        Clearly, I did not remotely say that I could not tell the difference.  In fact the meaning of my comment is the exact opposite of that - I clearly noted that I do accept the idea of treating different species of animals differently.  

        Why did you deliberately distort my meaning?  That's unethical dishonesty.  

        You evaded my questions, too.  That's pretty lame.  If you oppose killing of some animals, but not of others, where do you draw the line, and what criteria do you use to make that decision?  Can't answer?  Feeling enraged?  

        You're presumably a vegan, which is actually an excellent habit.  However, in other ways, you're a rather bad person.  You're unkind to your fellow human beings, you use your personal vegan discipline as an excuse to treat people badly, and you are dishonest and distort what others say.

        I respect veganism but I don't recognize it as a "Get Out of Ethics Free" card.  A dishonest vegan is still dishonest.  

        I have nothing against veganism.  I disrespect you, however.  I disrespect your dishonesty.  I disrespect your immaturity.  I disrespect your hypocrisy.  I disrespect your fakeness.  I disrespect your childish propaganda techniques.  I disrespect your rudeness.  

        You can never force me to do anything I don't want to do and never will be able to.   Including pay attention to you.

        •  You want an answer? (0+ / 0-)

          You're awfully presumptuous, "If you oppose killing of some animals, but not of others..."

          I'll lay it out for you as simply as possible.

          Imo, humans are the nastiest, most destructive creatures on the planet, and if their choices deliberately exploit & abuse others, they deserve to be treated like the scum they are.

          Further, if anyone attempts to cause me bodily harm (be they flea, mosquito or human), they're going down. Otherwise, I would never consider robbing someone of their  precious (to them) spark of life, for any reason.

          And you can call me dishonest all day long, just because you don't like my response, but that doesn't make it true. I see no reason to be dishonest.

        •  And really, you mean nothing to me (0+ / 0-)

          So don't puff yourself up so much.

  •  You may not like it, but... (0+ / 0-)

    I think it's more than insane to hear so many of you waxing intellectual (haha) about the very life & death of someone else. You'd be crying & pleading the way they do, if you were in their place. The ARE someones, and despite what your fairy tales have told you, they're not here for you.

  •  Animals should not be tortured or killed (0+ / 0-)

    to give us our entertainment jollies. Animals should be slaughtered for food humanely.  I see no hypocrisy in this.

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