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Recently Kos posted a diary declaring we Liberals had won the culture war.

Yoohoo! Rah team! Good Job!

I am assuming it was an effort to appease the corporate Dems that it was now time for the Liberals to sit down and shut up.

Well I see a few holes in his pronnouncement.

What holes? you may ask.

Things like LGBT's not having the right to employment comes to mind:

In the reprimands Bullard accused More of running background checks without properly signed authorization, failure to report to a supervisor about problems in other departments, using her position to seek revenge against another for personal affront, questioning the authority of a supervisor, questioning the authority of the mayor to look at job applications for potential employees, failing to maintain order and contributing to disorder at council meetings, and for contacting the media.

However in a conversation that was recorded by Town Councilman Jared Taylor, Bullard hinted at another reason.

‘I would much rather have, and I will say this to anybody's face, somebody who drank and drank too much taking care of my child than I had somebody whose lifestyle is questionable around children,’ Bullard said in the tape recording obtained by WBTW News 13.

http://www.gaystarnews.com/...

Then there is the outrageous story out of California where eugenics are alive and well, and paid for with our tax dollars.

http://tellmenow.com/...

And we have the largest number of people incarcerated in history. Now that prisons are privatized they are going to fight tooth and nail to keep their slave labor.

“We decided that the only weapon or strategy … that we have is our labor, because that’s the only reason that we’re here,” said Melvin Ray, an inmate at the St. Clair correctional facility and founder of the prison-based group Free Alabama Movement. “They’re incarcerating people for the free labor.”
I wish them well knowing they will all be punished for doing what we imprisoned by debt refuse to do-STRIKE

http://www.salon.com/...

And then there is the inequality. Not seen on a scale this deprived in all of Americas recorded history. People with no homes are shot, beaten and baked by law enforcement using their power in order to make this EPIDEMIC not be visible.

It has gotten so bad the United Nations has found our country to be violating the human rights of those unable to find housing.

The U.N. Human Rights Committee in Geneva on Thursday condemned the United States for criminalizing homelessness, calling it "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" that violates international human rights treaty obligations. It also called upon the U.S. government to take corrective action, following a two-day review of U.S. government compliance with a human rights treaty ratified in 1992.

"I'm just simply baffled by the idea that people can be without shelter in a country, and then be treated as criminals for being without shelter," said Sir Nigel Rodley, chairman of the committee in closing statements on the U.S. review. "The idea of criminalizing people who don't have shelter is something that I think many of my colleagues might find as difficult as I do to even begin to comprehend."

The Committee called on the U.S. to abolish criminalization of homelessness laws and policies at state and local levels, intensify efforts to find solutions for homeless people in accordance with human rights standards and offer incentives for decriminalization, including giving local authorities funding for implementing alternatives and withholding funding for criminalizing the homeless. 

Those recommendations run counter to the current trends in the nation. Laws targeting the homeless—loitering laws that ban sleeping or sitting too long in one public spot, or camping in parks overnight—have become increasingly common in communities throughout the country as homelessness has skyrocketed.

http://www.alternet.org/...

Torture-crickets
War Crimes-crickets
Wholesale financial scams-crickets

So, you will forgive me if I don't join you on your happy go lucky bandwagon.

There are humans that need me to keep fighting.

Originally posted to Subversive Agitation Team Action Network on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 08:43 AM PDT.

Also republished by Income Inequality Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  There's a difference between a "liberal" (9+ / 0-)

    and a "corporate Democrat"?

    Maybe at one time there was.  

    Hell, the "corporate Democrats" have just about succeeded in Borging the term "progressive."

    Not that the situation is any better anywhere else; look at what the corporatists have done to the term "socialist" in Europe; that term is now meaningless as well.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 08:59:16 AM PDT

    •  I don't think so (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3rock, Horace Boothroyd III
      Hell, the "corporate Democrats" have just about succeeded in Borging the term "progressive.
      They're desperately continuing to try, though...

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:31:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They've pretty much succeeded (7+ / 0-)

        on this site.  You and I and a couple dozen exceptions keep them from appropriating the term entirely.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 12:32:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  n00b (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Horace Boothroyd III

          It's interesting to me that to google Borging, basically the top def is to be on the comp in a self learning session for a long time. Borged means Borg assimilation.
           I try and keep up, I really do. Maybe it's in the capitalization, which could be snark?
           Anyway I happened to be on dkos earlier in the day in the Snowden diary, at about a comment of yours titled LOL, between another, you and deadhead. Laughed and laughed and laughed. Anyone caught between lunachickie and deadhead, surrender is the best option :) and I'd throw in bobswern.
           I profiled you in a reminder (I love your profile sig line) and your comments were at 17,774 to wit, if I may offer a congratulations.
           I'm glad you are on us progressives side.
           Best wishes and Thank You.

        March AGAINST monsatanOHagentorange 3/25/13 a time warp

        by 3rock on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 06:30:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  An important part of liberalism (17+ / 0-)

    in the new deal social democratic sense was a commitment to economic justice. Not only has there been no victory in that area, but things are getting worse. The establishment of the Democratic has shifted from being new deal liberals to being neoliberals who are somewhat more supportive of personal civil rights than are the Republican neoliberals.

    I understand that the raison d'etre of Daily Kos is to fight the branding battles between the two major parties. It is important to keep in mind that that battle ground excludes a lot of very important reality.

     

    •  exactly. on economic and foreign policy issues, (8+ / 0-)

      the Ds and Rs may argue over how MANY dollars to cut from the safety net or how MANY bombs to drop on countries we don't like, but nobody disputes WHETHER to make the cuts or drop the bombs. The "New American Century" agenda is now policy for both parties.

      The only issues the two parties are allowed at all to openly disagree on (and decide elections on) are the culture war issues. And while these certainly are important and effect a lot of lives, what they do NOT effect is who gets to hold political and economic power in the US and how they get to do it. Corporations don't care if gays can get married or not, or if we can carry gunz in the post office or not--they don't lose anything either way. But they DO like it when we all fight with each other over that, instead of BOTH of us fighting with the corporations over their domination of the political and economic world.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:11:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  won? WON???? (8+ / 0-)

    When I can propose that the Democratic Party adopt and fight for its own pre-Reagan party platform--without being called a DFH and told to sit down and shut up-----THEN, maybe, I can start cheering that we're at least on the way to winning.

    Here's the brutal reality behind Kos's post, though-----the Dems have not won, but the Goppers have LOST.  That is a very big difference.

    Yes, the Goppers have an approval rating lower than the IRS---but so do we. Voters hate hate hate the GOP---but they hate us too.

    Of course, in a binary electoral system, one can argue that "they hate us less" actually means "we're winning hooray!!!!"

    But in the real world, it means we're still losing. And we will ALWAYS be losing, until we give people a reason to fight FOR US instead of simply AGAINST OUR OPPONENT.

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:03:18 AM PDT

  •  U3 is 6.7% and more accurate U6 is 12.7% (10+ / 0-)

    The latter rate has been in double digits since 6/08.  It has never been below 12.6% during this presidency.

    Obviously, the president inherited an economic nightmare, and, even more obviously, the Visigoths on the other side of the aisle have done all they can to make things more difficult.  U3/U6 rates like that, however, do not constitute "winning" by any reasonable definition of the term.  Never even proposing a government jobs program in all that time isn't winning, either.

    In 1987-88, my wife and I were very active in Paul Simon's presidential campaign.  He wrote a book advocating a jobs program and made it a centerpiece of his campaign.  While the president eagerly adopted Simon's mantle in his 2004 IL-Sen race, that aspect of the Simon legacy was subsequently avoided.

    I don't consider the Bernanke/Geithner/Summers economic philosophy to be a "win" for our side.  I don't consider the CFC to be a victory, either.  I sure as hell don't view WJC and Obama citing the CFC as their economic template at the 2012 DNC to be a win.

    I guess I simply use different definitions.

    Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

    by RFK Lives on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:09:53 AM PDT

  •  what is also telling is that your list (5+ / 0-)

    could contain many more items.

    women, sex education, separation between church and state, ecology, global warming, nuclear power, trade agreements, unions, racism - i really could go on.
    and none of those are small potato items.

    but what really angers me was my sister. i was angry over the hobby lobby garbage and my very liberal sister told me that wasnt our fight anymore. we were too old. bs. really BS.

    thanks for your anger boothroyd and others here- including myself. i aint getting over these. we are never too old to fight. nor too old to care. nor too old to make3 a difference

  •  As long as the incarceration rate... (5+ / 0-)

    ...remains of the charts, as long as the police forces continue militarizing, as long as racist attitudes continue, as long as the separation of church and state is challenged, as long as pay inequality for women remains, as long as a woman's choice is not respected, as long as homelessness prevails and as long as LGBT rights are challenged in so many states, nothing has been won and we have long ways to go.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:29:59 AM PDT

  •  umm... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III

    Torture-not part of culture war
    War Crimes-same
    Wholesale financial scams-same

    you did a good job bringing up many areas of concern, but none of them are "culture war" issues.

    Gay rights, women's rights, what kind of movies and TV shows are made, how people relate to others who are different-all culture war issues.

    economics, foreign policy, eugenics, legal and socioeconomic issues are NOT part of the culture war.

    so, why can't you recognize and celebrate some progress instead of being such a Debbie downer? you're not really helping any of those causes by writing a diary rebutting KOS anyway. making a big show of NOT celebrating does nothing at all to help the humans who need you. it's a distraction, and since it is negative in tone, I think it's worse than what Kos wrote, which was a least meant in part as a motivator.

    we are never going to acheive perfection. there will always be more work to be done. your position seems to be that only until everything is solved can one talk about battles won or progress made. but, if we cannot look at what has been accomplished or even partially accomplished, how do we even know where we are and what to do next?

    sorry, I like most of your posts a lot but I think this article is cheerleading for pessimism, and pessimism is an energy killer and anti-progressive.

    Suggested alteration of theme: these small victories are signs that we can win the other battles. let's celebrate what we can when we can, if only as an organizing tool and confidence booster.

    of course, we can cheerfully disagree.

    thanks, Horace, for your hard work!

    You are a living mockery of your own ideals. If not, you have set your ideals too low-Charles Ludlam

    by PatRiots on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:30:08 AM PDT

    •  Most of what I wrote on are issues put up by (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lunachickie, a2nite, cybrestrike, Johnny Q

      racist Republicans.

      Very much part of the culture war because they used "scary black people" to get voters appro al.

      Nice try though.

    •  I would disagree (2+ / 0-)

      with torture, economics and foreign policy not being part of the 'culture wars' either.  When the Faux Noise crowd can whip up a frenzy to bomb Russia, when torture is condoned by Tea Bagging 'Patriots' simply because they hate who we torture (and have no historical knowledge of just why 'those people hate us so much') that is culture war too.

      Negative in tone?  Well yes, this is a pessimistic diary, but sadly it is pretty realistic too.  Horace isn't chearleeding for doom, but he's pointing out the Pollyana fantasy involved in thinking there is a WIN anymore in politics.  There most assuredly isn't, and when BHO merely maintains the status quo, even though I fully give him that he was given no leeway to buck that trend and was blatantly obstructed at every turn, he is still willing to put SS and Medicare on the table for cuts, he has NOT managed or even really fought to raise tax rates on those who made the money from the Meltdown and the Wars, and the bailouts not only continued under him but got even bigger.

      And to think the Right wing loons, and not only the extremists, call him Socialist - talk about a slap in the face rude joke on all of us.....  AS IF.

  •  I think you missed key words in his post. (5+ / 0-)

    I don't disagree that the economic battles aren't being won by liberals, even where they should be—but that wasn't the focus of Markos's post.

    Markos didn't write that the liberals had won, period—he wrote that liberals have won the culture war, specifically.

    While in many places LGBT people still have the right to employment nondiscrimination, there's a reason that the article you highlight there is news—where 30 years ago, the attitudes on display there would have been so commonplace as to not merit reporting.

    Nowadays, a sizable majority of the country rejects such attitudes and finds them revolting, even if Republican lawmakers, who are the servants of their rabid right-wing base, refuse to move ENDA forward. Growing majorities of the country are coming to support LGBT rights across the board.

    Despite a 30+ year right-wing disinformation campaign against reproductive choice, support for that has remained all but unchanged—and when right-wing candidates come out against contraception, they find their support plummeting among the general public. In general, more and more people are rejecting the one-size-fits-all nuclear family view of the Christian Right and accepting that families come in all shapes, sizes, and configurations.

    We can dice up what issues are "culture war" versus other things, but on those issues that have always been part of that discussion, the right wing is finding themselves increasingly marginalized—and increasingly brazen, particularly on women's rights, where they have control, because they know that if they don't lock in as much as they can now, they're going to lose the war in the coming decades as cultural conservatives age and die off and much-more-accepting Gen-Y/Gen-Z members take their place in the voting population.

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:31:49 AM PDT

    •  I hope you are correct (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      and that the Millenials and Gen Z or whatever can use their intellect wisely and save this country, but I do not have the faith anymore that you do.  I keep getting fund raising requests from Obama saying "Do you still have my back" and I want to write back that I would, but you no longer have mine.

      While a sizeable majority may be open minded enough not to let 'culture war' issues cloud their judgement, the relentless propaganda of the Right is not going to go away.  They will find a new way to appeal to the young, and when things are financially miserable, as they WILL be when our Middle Class is decimated, economic issues will create their own violence, distortion, hatred, etc, etc, etc.  Just as they are now.

      I am still outraged most of the time, and I sign petitions, write posts, argue with 'conservatives' but I no longer have faith this will really change anything.  It becomes about what you CAN do and what you can live with.  I think this country will have to revert back to full on Robber Baron feudalism before the light bulbs go off for enough people to really 'take this country back'.  I think there will need to be much more visible misery for Idiot America to wake up.

  •  Scary facts (10+ / 0-)

    courtesy of Bill Moyers website.  The incredible shrinking middle class may not even exist in the near future.

    http://billmoyers.com/...

    "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "It was a really naked declaration of imperialism." ~ Jeremy Scahill on Obama's speech to the UN

    by gulfgal98 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:49:12 AM PDT

  •  Partial victory (5+ / 0-)

    In most domestic social policies the liberals have won (gay rights, pot, etc.).
       However, on economic and foreign policy issues the conservatives have won every battle.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:05:46 AM PDT

  •  Why would you make this assumption? (3+ / 0-)
    I am assuming it was an effort to appease the corporate Dems that it was now time for the Liberals to sit down and shut up.
    Can you point to any basis for it in anything Kos said in the diary?

    At this point I'm not even certain that you're talking about the same diary I read. I got the impression that Kos was suggesting that it was time to start pressing forward on other aspects of the Liberal  agenda, ones not so dear to the hearts of corporados.

    I could be wrong of course, so if you can show that your take is based on something other than apriori thinking, I'll be open to hearing you out.

    Nothing human is alien to me.

    by WB Reeves on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 11:01:55 AM PDT

  •  To me, the most shocking thing about the war on (4+ / 0-)

    the poor are ordinances that make it illegal to feed homeless people. Several Florida cities have ordinances of that nature.

  •  yes, kos is almost full. (3+ / 0-)

    I saw his diary as simply an appeasement effort.

    More un-gate crashing.

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 12:19:56 PM PDT

    •  May be you can explain how it is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Horace Boothroyd III

      "appeasement"? No else has.

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 05:21:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because it has been (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Horace Boothroyd III

        decided that we are all to line up for HRC.

        So, it's time to make that last 8 years look like they have been successful.  Gotta distract from the economic issues.

        The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

        by dfarrah on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 05:48:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Apriori thinking in spades (0+ / 0-)

          Even if your assertion vis a vis HRC is true, what is there in either diary KOS wrote on this topic that amounts to appeasement? Overconfident and prematurely triumphalist perhaps but "appeasement"? Who is it supposedly appeasing?

          Moreover, where in either diary does Kos say anything about the last 8 years being successful, assuming that you're referring to the administration's record? Where does he attribute "winning" the culture war to the administration, or the Democratic Party for that matter?

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 10:05:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now you are laughable. (0+ / 0-)
          •  Appeasing the people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves

            who want change - the people who balk at HRC.

            Lily Ledbetter!!!  Hey, that's all we need.

            The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

            by dfarrah on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 09:06:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you for that answer (0+ / 0-)

              I think the characterization of this  as "appeasement" isn't particularly apt but at least it's now clear what you're getting at.

              Treating the recognition of incremental advances as somehow retrograde or "bad" is a trope so old as to be a cliche'. The idea that it helps to advance anything other than a general demoralization is, IMO, one thoroughly discredited by historical experience. Hitching it to a narrative of an assumed agenda of manipulation only aggravates the negative impact on popular sentiment.

              It gives the impression of wishing to forward an ideological position at the expense of improvements in the actual conditions that people live under.

              People struggling with the day to day business of survival aren't inspired by arguments that treat policies addressing their immediate needs as, or worse.  

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 11:41:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah I'm too poor for Obamacare to do me a bit of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dfarrah

          good. And actually it hurts me because my medicaid eligibility precludes me from purchasing insurance that WOULD cover my medical needs. It would be cheaper for me to get insurance than what I'm paying out of pocket for medication, but ACA won't allow it.

          The disconnect between the poor (most of America) and the Beltway is complete.

  •  yeah not down here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, Horace Boothroyd III

    however, i think we are winning.

    we haven't won.

    and likely won't ever be done trying to progress this country & people forward to a more equal union.

    one of the talk radio guys down here actually said he doesn't care about gays getting married. i was like what? it's been about 5 or 6 years. i think we're winning that issue.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 12:27:26 PM PDT

  •  I recall the Dean surge, (4+ / 0-)

    the crashing the gates thing way back in 2003, 2004.  I  recall Michael Moore at a concert telling the audience not to be disheartened, that there were plenty of people just like us 'out there' that felt just like we did.

    He emphaszied that point - that there were alot of people who thought just like we did about politics.

    Now, when I visit this site, I  think, hey, am I the only one who thinks dem politicians are a joke?  Am I the only one 'out there' who thinks differently from the 'rah rah' majority?

    So, I'm back where I began.  Who will be the next gate crasher?

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 12:35:23 PM PDT

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