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U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry
According to the Daily Beast, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry warned a closed-door meeting on Friday that Israel risks becoming "an apartheid state" if a two-state peace deal with the Palestinians is not reached soon. While many of the usual suspects among Israel's hardline supporters in the United States will be apoplectic, any rage toward Kerry will be misplaced. After all, recent Israeli Prime Ministers Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak said pretty much the same thing.

In the recording of discussions obtained by the Daily Beast, Kerry reportedly fretted about Israel's future if an accommodation with an independent Palestinian state does not come to fruition:

"A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens--or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state," Kerry told the group of senior officials and experts from the U.S., Western Europe, Russia, and Japan. "Once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to."
If that dire prediction sounds familiar, it should. That's because over just the past several years, two Israeli PM's made the same prediction.

Please read below the fold for more on this story.

In February 2010, Ehud Barak, the celebrated Israeli war hero turned Defense Minister in Bibi Netanyahu's government delivered this stark warning to the attendees of the Herzliya conference:

"As long as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic. If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."
Three years earlier, another Israeli Prime Minister who almost inked a peace deal with the Palestinians said much the same thing. As The Guardian reported in November 2007, then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was even more pessimistic about Israel's future without a peace agreement:
Israel's prime minister issued a rare warning yesterday that his nation risked being compared to apartheid-era South Africa if it failed to agree an independent state for the Palestinians. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Ehud Olmert said Israel was "finished" if it forced the Palestinians into a struggle for equal rights.

If the two-state solution collapsed, he said, Israel would "face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished." Israel's supporters abroad would quickly turn against such a state, he said.

To be sure, John Kerry did himself no favors by introducing the apartheid analogy in private discussion with Japanese, European and Russian diplomats. But this wasn't a case of Kerry saying what others were only thinking. Israel's leaders long ago beat him to it.
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Comment Preferences

  •  One day your table lamp risks becoming (16+ / 2-)

    your table lamp.

    Pssst to John Kerry: ::Israel is already an apartheid state.::

    It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 06:43:22 PM PDT

  •  read Gandhi, a two state solution is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mickT

    apartheid. Drawing circles around remnant Palestinian populations doesn't build an independent nation. If Israel is going to get divided up, Palestine should be offered US territorial status like the Marianas and Guam.

    •  I'd go for that! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Musial, Al Abama

      But the Palestinians will have to get over their ridiculous demand that no Jews live in a future Palestinian State.

    •  two points (0+ / 0-)

      1.  Your idea actually is an interesting one.  Perhaps Israel should give the territories the same status as US territories like Guam or, more appropriate, I wonder if perhaps the right model is the Philippenes from 1898 to 1946.  The US never intended to make the Philippenes a state, but instead gave them a US-style internal government, controlled their external relations and then began the process of preparing the Philippenes as an independent country that would not harm US interests.  That took almost 50 years.  Theoretically, Israel could do this with the parts of the West Bank (not Gaza) that are not intended to be annexted by Israel.  I don't expect the PLO/PA would agree to be eliminated, but this idea might actually be workable.

      2.  A two state solution is not apartheid.  That's ridiculous.  It's like saying the US is an apartheid state because we don't merge with Mexico.

      •  never forget (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, AoT, julifolo

        we massacred several hundred thousand Pilipinos during our "guardianship" of that archipelago.  So bad precident.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:40:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  A multi-state solution can be an essential (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, AoT

        part of Apartheid.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

        by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:46:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  US is an apartheid state because it didn't merge (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        with the Indian tribes, they're domestic dependent nations. Northern Mexico was different, annexed all Mexican territory taken in the war. Mexican War was straight conquest from another state, Palestine not a state. Gandhi's point, I think, was also geographic, the integrity of the holy land, like having Brooklyn be in a different country than Manhattan, when it's all NYC.

        •  The US was an apartheid state (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WattleBreakfast

          It is not currently because we give citizenship and voting rights to those who were once under apartheid.

          No War but Class War

          by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:34:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  good point, apartheid inaccurate for (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT

            South Africa today, American South, Indian reservations, white suburbs, more like segregation. The holy land has an international religious significance. Native Americans had such places like Bear Butte and Minnehaha Falls-peace zones open to all tribes. Structures guaranteeing religious tolerance and promoting world peace should be built into any resolution.

  •  Kerry can talk as much as he wants, nothing will (9+ / 0-)

    happen, because the present situation suits Israel perfectly.

    The 2-state solution is dead, the 1-state solution is unacceptable.

    The present situation of Israel occupying militarily the Palestinian Territories without annexing them means that: 1. Palestinians have no rights.
    2. Israel can continue to expand its illegal settlements.

    Israel finds this perfect, why would it do anything to change it?

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 06:56:43 PM PDT

    •  So just WHAT would you have Israel's government do (0+ / 0-)

      Bulldozing settlements prior to a final peace agreement is a non-starter because of what happened the last time Israel did that.

      The Palestinians don't seem to want to be annexed.

      •  Israel will never remove the Settlements (6+ / 0-)

        Settlers now comprise about 30% of the voters.

        The One State solution is the only option.

        The Israeli Government should give Palestinians the right to vote since they are de facto Israeli citizens.

      •  I have the ultimate and only (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT

        really feasible solution. See my sig.

        Dissolve Israel; stop distinguishing between jew and non-jew in Palestine.

        by high5 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:46:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  would you make the same argument (0+ / 0-)

          on behalf of Jews in Egypt? In Saudi Arabia? In Lebanon? In Syria? In Iraq? In Jordan?

          Yeah, I thought not.

          •  Jews in every country should have the rights (6+ / 0-)

            of everyone. If a government chooses to discriminate en masse against a group based on their ethnicity then that's wrong period. Whether it be Egypt or Israel.

            Egypt does not however maintain an area of stateless Jews anywhere that it controls. So there isn't exactly a parallel to be made.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:12:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, there isnt (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JNEREBEL

              an area of stateless Jews. They just kicked all the Jews out. As did every one of Israel's Arab neighbors. Would that be a more acceptable way for Israel to deal with Palestinians?

              •  They didn't kick most of the Jews out (5+ / 0-)

                Most Jews left when tensions were high between Arabs and Jews in the region because of the Nakba and the wars between Arab countries and Jews. Toward the end the government made life very hard for them, but they were not in fact kicked out. Not that this fact makes it any better, making things hard enough for Jews that they all leave the country is basically as bad as kicking them out as far as I'm concerned.

                Would that be a more acceptable way for Israel to deal with Palestinians?
                A more acceptable way would have been to create a pluralistic democracy that doesn't discriminate based on ethnicity as Israel does. And certainly having a stat with large areas of land under the control of Israel but not technically part of Israel so that Israel remains majority Jewish is a pretty horrible thing. I don't know of any other country that does this.

                They could also recognize Palestine's right to exist, which they have not done, unlike what the Palestinian side has done.

                No War but Class War

                by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:41:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Unlike what the Palestinian side has done? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JNEREBEL

                  Really? Hamas has done that?

                  A more acceptable way would have been to create a pluralistic democracy that doesn't discriminate based on ethnicity as every single Arab country in the region has done. I know you didn't say that. But why didn't you? Why are these very basic rules of democracy demanded from Israel, but every single neighboring country gets a pass?

                  400 million Arabs surrounding fewer than 10 million Israelis are somehow exempt. I don't get that.

                  •  The Palestinians have recognized Israel's (6+ / 0-)

                    right to exist more than once. Whereas Israel is actively blocking Palestine's attempt to form a state. And there's the simple fact that the state of Israel does exist and the state of Palestine does not.

                    A more acceptable way would have been to create a pluralistic democracy that doesn't discriminate based on ethnicity as every single Arab country in the region has done. I know you didn't say that. But why didn't you? Why are these very basic rules of democracy demanded from Israel, but every single neighboring country gets a pass?
                    Don't put words in my mouth. I explicitly said that "Jews in every country should have the rights of everyone."

                    If you can't understand what that means then I don't know what to say.

                    You're so tied up in believing that everyone opposed to Israel's wrongs only opposed it when Israel does it you ignore it when I say explicitly that there are problems in other states. And I'd add tat I marched in support of the people of Egypt  when they opposed their oppressive government. The government in Egypt doesn't just oppress Jews, they oppress a ton of people.

                    The fact that you lump every Arab country together, and compare the treatment of the Palestinians to the treatment of Jews by Arabs who aren't Palestinian is outright racist. Palestinians are not all Arabs and bringing every single Arab country into the discussion makes no sense at all unless you assume that what other Arab countries do reflects at all on Palestine and Palestinians. It is the equivalent of pointing to the conflict in Congo when talking about Black people in the US.  They are not the same groups and the Palestinians have no control over Arab countries other than Palestine, to the extent that they have control over Palestine at all.

                    No War but Class War

                    by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:26:46 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JNEREBEL

                      The Palestinians are not all Arabs? I guess by the broad definition of including the now millions of Jewish Israelis who were born in the region, the Palestinians are not all Arabs. The rest are.

                      (And your "racist" claim makes no sense whatsoever.)

                      •  When you bring up the actions of Arabs (4+ / 0-)

                        who are not Palestinian in response to the actions of Israel toward Palestinians it is racist because Palestinians are not Egypt, nor are they Iraq, nor are they any other Arabs except Palestinians. Complaining about what some other group of Arabs do in regards to Jews is racist, period. There are different groups of Arabs in the world and you are treating them as one single monolithic group. Palestinians have no control over the actions of other Arab government.

                        The Palestinians are not all Arabs? I guess by the broad definition of including the now millions of Jewish Israelis who were born in the region, the Palestinians are not all Arabs. The rest are.
                        So, I wasn't terribly clear on my wording here and I can see where the confusion may come from. First, not all Palestinians are Arab. That is in fact true. There are non-Arab Palestinians. But what I was trying to say was that the Palestinians do not make up the entirety of the Arab world. The are one small section of the Arab world. By bringing up the treatment of Jews by other Arabs you are equating Palestinians with all Arabs.

                        As I said, this is the equivalent of bringing up the actions of some group in the conflict in Congo when speaking about black people in the US. It's racist.

                        No War but Class War

                        by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:44:49 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Who are (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          JNEREBEL

                          the non-Arab Palestinians?

                          I never said the Palestinians are the same as the Iraqis. Or the Syrians. The point I was making, was that every other population in the area gets a pass for the way they treat Jews (and also Christians in many, if not most areas, and for that matter, also how they treat Palestinians), and it is never, ever called apartheid. Israel's behavior is almost never measured here by the same metrics by which every other country in the region is measured.

                          Your analogy is flawed. It has no relationship with anything I said.

                          •  No, you never said they were the same (3+ / 0-)

                            But you pointed to the actions of other Arabs who aren't Palestinians. Why would the actions of other Arabs matter when we talk about the relations between Israel and Palestine unless the Palestinians are somehow responsible for the actions of all Arabs?

                            And again, what other Arab countries practice is not germane to this discussion. You are doing the exact same thing again. What does discrimination against Jews in Egypt have to do with Israel's treatment of Palestinians? The only way that can matter is if you consider all Arabs to be the same groups, but they are not.

                            Additionally, not all discrimination is apartheid. In the US we had Jim Crow, which was bad but not apartheid. In some ways it was worse than apartheid. But it wasn't apartheid. What Israel is doing is comparable to apartheid. What various Arab countries did was ethnic cleansing, and it was wrong and anyone who has been ethnically cleansed has the right to return to the place they've been ethnically cleansed from.

                            Your analogy is flawed. It has no relationship with anything I said.
                            The fact that you can't be bothered to point out how it is flawed and instead simply assert it as some universal truth to be accepted without argument says to me that it is far from flawed.

                            You bring up the actions of other Arabs to justify the action taken against Palestine. Whether or not other Arabs have apartheid regimes has nothing to do with whether Israel is an apartheid regime. Nothing at all. Egypt could be a Nazi regime and it would have absolutely no bearing on whether Israel was an apartheid state.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:07:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's why it's flawed (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            because I haven't compared the Palestinians to other Arab populations. Not once. Go back and read my first comment. It was asking about a particular commenter's response to other inequities. Didn't even mention the Palestinians. Didn't mention Arabs specifically, though all examples were Arab countries.

                            There was no racism in anything I said. You want to see what racism looks like? Look at how Jews and Palestinians are treated in every Arab country.

                          •  You didn't mention Palestinians (0+ / 0-)

                            you just posted in a diary about the oppression of Palestinians. If I went into a diary about unequal pay for black people in the US and started asking about how the commenters felt about the treatment of white people in Zimbabwe it would be racist nonsense. The idea that you haven't compared Palestinians to other Arabs is absurd given that you only singled out Arab countries in your question.

                            would you make the same argument (0+ / 0-)
                            on behalf of Jews in Egypt? In Saudi Arabia? In Lebanon? In Syria? In Iraq? In Jordan?
                            I'm sure the fact that all the countries you asked about were Arab has nothing to do with the fact that Palestinians are Arab. Just a giant coincidence.

                            Not to mention the fact that your comment was clearly a barely veiled attempt to call the commenter antisemitic.

                            You want to see what racism looks like? Look at how Jews and Palestinians are treated in every Arab country.And you did it again! Good show! Israel oppresses Palestinians and your only response is that Arabs are worse. Literally the only thing you have to respond with is that Arabs are worse. You outright compared the actions of Israel and Arab countries here and you're going to keep pretending otherwise.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:22:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm not pretending anything (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            I've been pretty clear about what I'm saying. Arab countries largely get a pass here for behavior that is worse, by an order of magnitude, compared to Israel.

                          •  And why do you single out Arab countries? (0+ / 0-)

                            You are completely pretending that this is not about Palestinians being Arab even though you are now explicitly singling out Arab countries.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:44:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  In case you hadn't noticed (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            Israel, which is singled out pretty often here, is surrounded by Arab countries. Do I think it has anything to do with Palestinians being Arabs? Nope, not a bit. The only countries that have treated Palestinians worse than Israel has is every Arab country. Where have they been granted full citizenship rights? Not consistently in Jordan over the last 60+ years, even though most of what Jordan named the West Bank was populated by Palestinians and under Jordanian control for a couple decades. Not in Egypt, even when Egypt had control over Gaza for a couple decades. So no, it has nothing to do with Palestinians being Arabs. It has to do with behavior that is apparently acceptable here when done to both Jews and Palestinians, but not acceptable when it's done by Israel.

                          •  So again you have no response to (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            callmecassandra

                            the claims that Israel is an apartheid state except to note that Palestinians have not been treated well in other countries. Talk about changing the subject. You did not just single out countries around Israel. You included countries like Saudi Arabia which are nowhere near Israel or Palestine. Saudi Arabia doesn't even have a significant number of Palestinian refugees and yet you included it. The fact that you couldn't find a single non-Arab country to include is telling, despite your adamant denials. When someone talks about Israel you respond with "The Arabs" as if they were monolithic.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:03:05 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  In fairness (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            This diary doesn't make the case that Israel is an apartheid state. Words matter.

                            Arab states have been pretty monolithic in their treatment of both Jews and Palestinians. Can you actually deny that? Can you name one country in the region that has welcomed both over the last 60 years? With a close to 20% Palestinian citizenry with full voting rights, Israel is the only one that comes close.  

                          •  In fairness? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco

                            You haven't made any claims about Israel being an apartheid state until now. You made this about something completely different. So, no, there isn't evidence presented in this specific diary showing that Israel is an apartheid state, but you don't want to talk about Israel at all, so why do you care? You want to talk about how horrible Arabs are. Even when the subject of Israel is brought up.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:20:03 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Until now? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            I still haven't. Is it a necessity for credibility?

                          •  When the topic is specifically about apartheid (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, callmecassandra

                            and all you can do is talk about Arab states then you've got no credibility. "Arabs are bad!" is what you're repeating.

                            I still haven't.
                            I counted where you said that the diary doesn't make the case. Not necessarily fitting the criteria. If you haven't made any claims then that's worse. You can't be bothered to actually talk about the diary and instead just take the moment to tell everyone how evil and monolithic Arabs are.

                            But that's totally not racist. Because you say so.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:20:35 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Put words in other's mouths much (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JNEREBEL

                            Total bullshit. I'm done.

                          •  I didn't put any words in your mouth (0+ / 0-)

                            All you had to say was that Arabs are bad.

                            No War but Class War

                            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 04:12:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Remove your abusive HR, Kane in CA: (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AoT, callmecassandra, poco

                            You can't get 20 comments and 8 hours into an argument, and then decide you want to HR your opponent. You know you're breaking the DKos rules - so don't.

                            Beyond that, AoT didn't even insult you - your HR is for disagreement, and is abusive because of the ongoing conversation.

                            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                            by Brecht on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:27:00 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, he didn't insult me (0+ / 0-)

                            he just outright lied about what I said.

                          •  But you're right (0+ / 0-)

                            the HR was out of line. His words were still bullshit.

                          •  Thanks for doing the right thing. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Kane in CA, poco

                            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                            by Brecht on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:44:38 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

          •  I would, if (0+ / 0-)

            Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Jordan were artificially created states imposed upon a former Jewish homeland.

            Dissolve Israel; stop distinguishing between jew and non-jew in Palestine.

            by high5 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 04:47:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It suits not only Israel perfectly (3+ / 0-)

      but the USA as well.  

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:41:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is a one state solution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, callmecassandra

      The state is Israel.

      No War but Class War

      by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:01:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Actually one Israeli right winger (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Musial, AoT

    Caroline Glick recently proposed annexing the occupied territories and granting FULL Israeli citizenship to almost all the Arabs living there.

    She was promptly savaged by some even more extreme right wingers. :(

    It is ironic that her solution is not much different from what most of the BDS supporters want: One state between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.

    •  Discretion Avoids the Downsides (7+ / 0-)

      Of course, what those extreme right-wingers suggested was discretely selecting choice morsels of the occupied territories to annex while offering citizenship to the Palestinians living in those areas and then forcing a bastardized autonomy on the remaining Palestinians living in the remaining territories.  

      The Afrikaners tried that policy sixty years ago and they're the people who crafted the name which applied then, apartheid.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, is it still a duck or do we believe our lying eyes and call it something else.  When did the nomenclature suddenly become more reprehensible than the reality in our society?

      "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

      by PrahaPartizan on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 09:36:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not true (0+ / 0-)

        selecting choice morsels of the occupied territories to annex

        and

        The Afrikaners tried that policy sixty years ago

        Did not happen. The boundaries were not flexible.

        •  They absolutely were. It's like no one ever (6+ / 0-)

          heard of a Bantustan.

          "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

          by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:50:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Willful Ignorance (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, JesseCW, poco, Celtic Merlin

            Some folks will do anything to avoid confronting the truth, even if it hurts worse in the long run.  Most Americans aren't aware that the bantustans were an artificial construct formed by the South African Afrikaner government out of the land in all South Africa in order to justify the apartheid approach they were implementing.  

            I'd also like to know just how many people are aware of the "pass laws" which existed inside South Africa which required South African blacks to hold and produce internal passports if they were moving through areas which did not normally see South African blacks  visit.  If that sounds a little like some of Bennett's ideas, well, I guess we can just lay the similarity at design convergence's doorway.

            "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

            by PrahaPartizan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:30:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Then Why Not Annex the Whole Occupied Territories (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, poco, Celtic Merlin

          What is being done is annexing just enough land to take the desirable portions while leaving the bulk of the Palestinian population in the region to be assigned "autonomous" control.  In the US, we call that cherry-picking and it usually doesn't offer a positive connotation.

          "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

          by PrahaPartizan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:32:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  charliehal can't bring himself to type Palestinian (0+ / 0-)

      He can only type "Arabs".

      I view this as racist.

      •  He totally types Palestinian on a regular basis (0+ / 0-)

        I disagree with most everything charlie thinks on this subject but to claim he can't use the word 'Palestinian' is completely wrong.

        He does so in a comment which I've provided a link for.

        No War but Class War

        by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:26:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Aot, in the context of that comment above (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, poco

          I mean.

          He sees the Palestinians as Arabs not as Palestinians.  That much is clear from his comments. If you think differently you see something I do not.

          •  I took it to be referring specifically to the (0+ / 0-)

            Arabs in the occupied territories as opposed to Arabs and Jews. When talking about the occupied territories and granting citizenship I think it's reasonable to talk about Arabs in the occupied territories.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:54:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  How could some one who once chose John Edwards (0+ / 0-)

    as a running mate have shown such poor judgment in this case ?

    Rivers are horses and kayaks are their saddles

    by River Rover on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 07:15:54 PM PDT

    •  Which Poor Judgment? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Celtic Merlin

      One could make a good case that Kerry didn't show any misjudgment in either instance.  Edwards did make that call that increasing maldistribution of income and wealth in the US was a problem, something which is being demonstrated daily by researchers daily now.  Perhaps the issue is that Kerry is being prophetic and his prophecy is unsettling.

      "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

      by PrahaPartizan on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 09:44:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey, Al Gore chose Holy Joe . . . n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, Celtic Merlin

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:42:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A study in contrasts (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deepeco, corvo, JesseCW

    It's always telling that you can get away with far more criticism of Israel if you are an Israeli politician than if you are an American one.

  •  Israeli Politicians Don't Listen to Themselves (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, poco, JesseCW

    I noticed another statement which a major Israeli coalition partner made just the other day:

    "An era has ended and a new era has begun," Cabinet Minister Naftali Bennett, a powerful coalition partner who heads the nationalist Jewish Home party, told foreign journalists Sunday.

    "We are not going to reach a peace agreement in the foreseeable future. I think we need to be realistic about what we can achieve."

    Instead, Bennett advocating giving the Palestinians "autonomy on steroids" in areas of the West Bank they already control, while annexing the remaining 60 percent of the West Bank that Israel rules.

    He said the goal should now to make conditions as livable as possible, by giving Palestinians freedom of movement and supporting their economy, and allowing them to hold elections and run their day-to-day affairs. Full independence, however, would be impossible, he said.

    "I know it is not as sexy as the perfect two-state solution but this is realistic," he said.

    Admittedly, Bennett's statement also did call for making those Palestinians in the territories formally annexed full Israeli citizens.  However, the effect of the cherry-picked annexation will be to further fragment the Palestian population, making their "self-rule" even more risible.  We saw how this type of policy played out over a forty year period, which ended twenty years ago.  It's precisely why Kerry is using the language he is choosing now, because the textbook definition for apartheid in action doesn't differ much from Bennett's policies.  Given his position in the coalition, one would have to begin to believe that it's the governing coalition's policy too.  Maybe someone should play back the speeches made by some Israeli politicians to them so they can hear themselves in action.  It might even concern them.

    "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

    by PrahaPartizan on Sun Apr 27, 2014 at 09:26:10 PM PDT

  •  Oh, my, what bad publicity. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, callmecassandra

    Otherwise it isn't as if Official USA gives a tinker's d*** what Israel does with the Palestinians.  We'll continue to arm them to the hilt and defend them at the UN no matter what.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:39:03 AM PDT

  •  The Truth Hurts! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, poco

    I can only hope that Kerry stands by his statements instead of dialing them back in the face of Israeli pressure.  What Kerry expressed is a matter of fact, not opinion, and he shouldn't be made to contradict the obvious situational fact that Israel only has three choices in the face of a growing Palestinian population:

    1.  Two State Solution;
    2.  A single mixed (non-Jewish) Democratic State; or
    3.  Apartheid.

    Bebe, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:44:46 AM PDT

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