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Seven international military observers taken captive in eastern Ukraine a week ago have been released.

Five Ukrainian officers captured with the observers, who are linked to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, were also freed.

http://www.bbc.com/...

And with their release the Great and All-Powerful Oz, sorry Putin, deserves to be roundly denounced because he didn't pick up the phone and give the order to that all-encompassing unified singular group known as the pro-Putins to release them earlier.

What is that you say??? ... they're not pro-Putins??? ... they're pro-Russians??? ... how can you be so naive, everyone knows that pro-Russians are all really pro-Putins???

And you say the pro-Putins aren't an all-encompassing unified singular group??? ... surely you can't be serious, it's obvious to all right-thinking folk that they all walk in rabid lockstep to the Great and All-Powerful's whims, and only his whims???

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (13+ / 0-)

    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 03:31:41 AM PDT

  •  is this a thing? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya

    it seems like a thing, but then again, not really a thing.

    •  It's a blowing off steam thing that I posted (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TurkeyCreek, Sandino, native, mickT

      because it's early morning in the US and will just scroll off the recent list this morning. And I have a little free time this afternoon here (in Turkey).

      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 03:58:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no, i want to understand your point (4+ / 0-)

        you said it for a reason.  No problem if you are just blowing of steam, I have certainly done that before.  But do you really think Putin is not in control of pro Russian insurgents in Ukraine?  If so, explain your point if you want to.  

        I think Putin is firmly in control.  His polls in Russia are in the 80+ percent, something unheard of in the Western world.  And the Crimea vote to join Russia was 95 percent  http://rt.com/... something more in tandem with votes Cuba and Iran, than say, Quebec.  

        Nothing wrong with making a point, just spell it out a bit more is what I ask.  Maybe we are missing something. I think the release makes sense, I think Putin wants to ramp things up, then let off a bit of the steam, before he encroaches more.  

        •  Putin is firmly in control of Russia. (10+ / 0-)

          He is, after all, the president of the country and seems to have that kind of personality, and this might be what is popular among the electorate in Russia at this time.

          As to his being in control of the pro-Russians (and I still haven't seen that term clearly defined) in Ukraine, I have some experience with countries which are in upheaval and believe that it is essentially impossible for Putin to be in any kind of general control of the 'pro-Russians' in Ukraine considering the conditions which exist there now.

          He has some influence over some of them some of the time but continuous effective control, no.

          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 04:26:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  understood (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            InAntalya, Mindful Nature

            i get what you are saying.  it is hard for anyone to control and conflagration.  I still think letting these people go makes sense, not as a sign of peace, but of tactics.  Holding them is to hot, and not worth it.  

            •  Yes, letting them go makes sense, (0+ / 0-)

              but their not having been there in the first place and their not having been abducted would have both made even more.

              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 05:06:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What (0+ / 0-)

                You are saying international observers have no business in a trouble spot like this?  That's kind of crazy

                •  Those international observers, no. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  fran1

                  I understand they were there through a bilateral agreement between Ukraine and Germany.

                  The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine, on the other hand, I believe to be very important.

                  Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                  by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 09:06:36 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    InAntalya

                    Appears to have been a misinterpretation/ misrepresentation by one commenter.  Both OSCE and the commander (who happens to have been German although the rest included Polish, Czech, and Danish soldiers, an unusual mix for a mission from the Bundeswehr, no?)

                    The OSCE website has ongoing discussion of this and they've been pretty clear that these observers were there under OSCE auspices.  I actually really like the OSCE site for cutting through a lot of clutter

                    As with so much with the active propaganda wars, it requires a little investigation

                  •  I also wanted to say (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    InAntalya

                    Hang in there. I understand blowing off steam. Brigs is a right ugly mess.  I am pretty upset about things also

                    •  We butt heads sometimes (0+ / 0-)

                      but I don't see that as something bad.

                      I do wish, as I noted above, that you would recant the 'Good to see the civilians in Odessa step in ...' comment and ask those who recommended it to withdraw them.

                      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

                      by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 09:25:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  Fair enough (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        InAntalya

        Sine we have really know way of knowing how much control Moscow exerts here (none? A little? Some? A lot?)   If I am not mistaken (and I easily could be), neither Putin nor his ministers ever publicly called for their release.  That is shameful.  Not as shameful as many other things he has done.  (As bad as Erdogan is being as a proto authoritarian, Putin is far ahead of him)

        Still, the assumption underlying you comment that Russian troops aren't involved has not been proven. Perhaps this was just a collection of ultra nationalists and neo nazis going off Bundy style all on their own.  Maybe they had help.  Maybe there were Russian soldiers among them.  We simply do not know

        At the end of the day it is great news the observers have been released

  •  I agree with you main point (4+ / 0-)

    How can Putin at the same time virtually order the immediate release of these hostages once he sent his lackey there but deny organizing them in the first place?

    What Putin has been doing over the last year or more has been increasing his ultra-nationalist rhetoric in an attempt to distract from the corruption and collapse of the non-oil economy at home.  The Sochi Olympics was a demonstration of both aspects of that. The sight of fully able bodied men goose stepping to form the three Agitos of  the Paralympics symbol was rather typical of many of the things wrong in the county.

    I don't discount the likelihood that having lit that particular nationalistic fuse, he is unable to control the resulting fireworks.  

    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Sat May 03, 2014 at 06:06:41 AM PDT

    •  That may be the case. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lib Dem FoP

      Lugansk's anti-Kiev forces fell into bickering while Slavyansk's occupiers have been making themselves noxious to the populace and have carried out a pogrom against the Roma.  

      On the other hand, the chaos in Donbas (Lugansk and Donetsk Oblasts) showed the world that Ukraine was unable or unwilling to keep any sort of peace in that region until the "anti-terrorist operation" scored some successes on May 2.  

      "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

      by Yamaneko2 on Sat May 03, 2014 at 10:54:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the information (0+ / 0-)

        I had seen the Russians have apparently arrested a leader of the Tatars in Crimea but not about that pogrom against the Roma.  Says a lot for the Kremlin's claim that the Kiyiv government is Nazi!

        "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Sat May 03, 2014 at 01:12:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm getting very tired of (3+ / 0-)

    all the oversimplified, one-sided stories that I've seen in some Ukraine diaries and the associated comments.

  •  What the hell happened to you? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence, ER Doc

    You used to be an interesting diarist.

    Now, every story you write about is really an opportunity to carry on a pie fight with DKos commenters you're angry with.

    You read this story about the separatists releasing their hostages, and your response is this bull?

    Sad. You used to provide perspective; now, you've totally lost it.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Sat May 03, 2014 at 06:30:02 AM PDT

    •  'every', really? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      native, protectspice, Johnny Q

      Try proving that.

      And at least I 'used to be interesting'. Have you ever been?

      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 07:14:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See? Look at you. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        InAntalya, ER Doc

        Look at what you just wrote.

        "Prove the word everything" and "You're boring."

        Is there anything going on in your besides "I'm really going to get those people in the comments!" anymore?

        You used to write about Turkey, and Syria, and American policy.

        Now all you do is try to score points against Daily Kos commenters.

        Is this what you want to be?

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Sat May 03, 2014 at 08:05:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  First of all, you are being a bit ridiculous. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q

          Some of the content of your comments here is a tad bizarre.

          Second, this is a snark post. You do realize that don't you?

          Third, I still write some about Turkey, but I usually write about my farm.

          Fourth, I think you missed this post:

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          'Want to' is not something I can consider as much as I'd like to for the time being.

          But even though we have butted heads here today I really appreciate the concern you have shown in this comment.

          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 08:20:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I realize it's a snark post. That's the problem. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            InAntalya

            Instead of actually writing about the events, you use it to make fun of people in a snarky manner.

            Yay you.

            You were interesting when you used to write substantive diaries.

            But, hey, if doing this stuff makes you feel better...well, that's kind of sad, actually.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Sat May 03, 2014 at 09:34:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Snark and humor are very useful in some situations (0+ / 0-)

              and I believe that this post was useful and has opened/reopened some communications.

              If that makes you sad there is nothing I can do about it.

              Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

              by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 09:45:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Let's see... Putin's guys in eastern Ukraine (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Texas Lefty, ER Doc, cryonaut

    throw all international norms out the window and kidnap international observers, and now some Russian envoy supposedly negotiated their release.

    Forgive me if I am not exactly impressed.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Sat May 03, 2014 at 06:37:31 AM PDT

    •  You're forgiven. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mickT

      Feel better?

      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat May 03, 2014 at 07:26:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, InAntalya, northsylvania

      I will take it.  These days people talking and releasing hostages is a great development.  After events yesterday is have sooner bet they'd have been killed in retaliation or something.  Any lowering of the temperature is good.   I kind of hope that Putin has more controls rather than less, since this would suggest the Kremlin understands the need to cool it.  Alas, my personal sense is that these guys really are just a bunch of local hothead thugs who probably got some help from Moscow but not enough that they take orders.

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