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John Cassidy at The New Yorker says of The Iraq Mess: Place Blame Where It Is Deserved:

Elsewhere in Washington, the blame game has already begun. “This is the education of Barack Obama, but it’s coming at a very high cost to the Syrian people to the Iraqi people, to the American national interest,” Doug Feith, the Under-secretary of Defense for Policy from 2001 to 2005, told Politico. “The President didn’t take seriously the warnings of what would happen if we withdrew and he liked the political benefits of being able to say that we’re completely out.” Senator John McCain, whom the President telephoned on Friday, has called on Obama to fire his entire national-security team, claiming, “Could all of this have been avoided? The answer is absolutely yes.”

McCain is right; it could have been avoided. If, in the aftermath of 9/11, President George W. Bush had treated the arguments of Feith, McCain, and other advocates of the Iraq War with the disdain they deserved, we (and the Iraqis) wouldn’t be where we are today.

If, in the immediate aftermath of the U.S. invasion, Paul Bremer, the American proconsul in Baghdad, and his boss, Donald Rumsfeld, had not decided to disband Saddam’s army, the one institution that somewhat unified the country, the Iraqi state would be stronger. If, in addition, Bremer and Rumsfeld had ordered enough U.S. troops onto the streets to preserve order, then Iraq might (and it’s only a might) have held together peacefully instead of degenerating into sectarianism, anarchy, and violence.

If Prime Minister Maliki, whom the United States eventually settled on as its favored Iraqi leader, had made a serious effort to reach out to the Sunnis and the Kurds, rather than acting like a sectarian ward heeler, the departure of U.S. forces might not have created the political stalemate and institutional power vacuum that the jihadis, first in Anbar Province and now in Nineveh and Saladin, have exploited.

None of these things happened, but the greatest mistake was the initial one. […]

The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam. When you hear Feith and other architects of the Iraq invasion criticizing Obama for cutting and running, it is well to remember that.


Blast from the Past. At Daily Kos on this date in 2009From the Pit of Hell:

If you want to dispose of hazardous waste in the US, despite an EPA gutted by the Bush administration, you'll have to follow extensive regulations. Paperwork must be completed and approved, the waste will be poured down a deep injection well, or buried under tons of earth in abandoned mines. It will have to be managed and monitored by highly trained, expensive specialists and inspected by third party officials, making it a time consuming, costly project. But if you're a contractor in Iraq or Afghanistan, you can bypass all those silly safety procedures and make a bundle doing it:

They're called "burn pits" and they're used by the military in Iraq and Afghanistan to burn and dispose of all kinds of waste, some of it hazardous. And they may be responsible for contributing to the sickness and even death of military personnel. Which is why Democratic Congresswoman Carol Shea-Porter of New Hampshire and others filed legislation requiring a full investigation into the effects of burn pits and to prohibit their continued use.
The same private contractors and military brass that brought our soldiers death by electric shower and contaminated water are able to use poorly paid enlisted men and women, wearing little or no protection, to do their highly profitable dirty work. These pits are vast. A single burn site might contain hundreds of tons of machinery, plastics, dioxin, benzene, paint and solvents, heavy metals, and medical waste—including amputated limbs

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Comment Preferences

  •  1,034,670 registered users on dKos now. (17+ / 0-)

    Here are the 10 newest registered users on dKos.  Hope to see their comments and diaries here soon!  (If they're not spammers.)

    Selene083by
    James2320eda9
    Ethan1841fgh9
    Domenic2395h
    Michael6643ibo5
    Michael4655dkf2
    Ricardorn
    yPhilipHosea2082 (user #1,034,668: spammer)
    Ardellrm
    Ryan5059wrl9


    And since our society is obsessed with numbers that end in a lot of zeros as milestones, here's a special shoutout to users:
    #1,034,200: Joshua9405lcr0
    #1,034,300: Nathan3061jaq2
    #1,034,400: Jule8382fzu2
    #1,034,500: Tatyana3714gxn9
    #1,034,600: Nathan8875nmj9

    We've added 556 more users in the last 24 hours.  There's definitely been a recent increase in spammers in the last couple weeks, and it seems to be getting faster.


    And for your Diary Rescue music pleasure, with the Season 4 finale tonight, here's the theme song to Game of Thrones.

  •  Feith could move mountains (17+ / 0-)

    of cash into Iraq

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 08:06:37 PM PDT

  •  So this really happened. (17+ / 0-)

    Adam Kokesh praises the Las Vegas cop killers.

    Speaking on his Internet show on Wednesday, libertarian pundit, gun rights activist and former resident of a D.C. prison Adam Kokesh partially defended the actions of Jerad and Amanda Miller, the far-right extremists who recently killed two police officers, a civilian and themselves in a Las Vegas public shooting.

    ....

    He also argued that because America’s political institutions — including the police — have become “homicidal … against freedom,” it was wrong to see the Millers’ unprovoked killing spree as acts of murder rather than self-defense.

    “Let’s say someone is going around stabbing people, like, just stabbing people,” Kokesh said. “It’s not murder to kill someone in that situation. And [as] has been pointed out about the Vegas shooting, when you have police officers that are going around and doing violent things all day long, and then they take a break for lunch, well, it doesn’t mean all of the sudden they’re innocent or they’re being peaceful because they’re taking a break from all of their other anti-freedom, rights-violating violence,” he continued.

    Kokesh argued next that the Millers had, if anything, saved lives by murdering two police. “Think of how many lives might have been saved by this incident,” he urged his audience. “How many people would these cops have killed had they not been killed?”

    FYI, Kokesh will be sentenced in September to up to 15 years in prison.

    The reason I keep writing about these people is I'm trying to warn all of you about them before more of their fans take up arms and murder more people, both cops and civilians.

    •  He has clearly crossed the line into being a (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Notreadytobenice, JeffW

      criminal.

      He has no legitimate ground on which to stand.

      And there is an illiterate arrogance in ex-military who pride themselves in knowing the Constitution without ever having read it.

      Join an underground of illiterate "radicals" and fill up on drugs and self-righteous violence -- while being "anti-war"?

      This is the country of those three great rights: freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and the wisdom never to exercise either of them. -- Mark Twain.

      by JJustin on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:50:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Psychopath. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      What else ???

      Sociopaths do bad things in self interest. They have zero guilt.

      Psychopaths do bad things because they enjoy doing it. The bad behaviors endure even where it's not in their interests. Psychopaths even do bad things to themselves.

      "Stealing kids' lunch money makes them strong and independent." -- after Paul "False Prophet" Ryan

      by waterstreet2013 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 at 08:31:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Love the tweet of the day. Here's my fave: (31+ / 0-)
    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP  · 19m  
    The Bush/Cheney guys offer advice on Iraq.

    Mitt explains how to win the presidency.

    Next, Newt tells us how to care for a sick wife.

    I was a peripheral visionary. I could see the future, but only way off to the side. ~ Steven Wright

    by Bugsby on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 08:10:25 PM PDT

  •  Douglas Feith criticizing Obama. HAHAHAHAHAHA !... (20+ / 0-)

    Douglas Feith criticizing Obama. HAHAHAHAHAHA !

    Army General Tommy Franks said "Feith is the stupidest fucking guy on the planet."

  •  c'mon, quit blaming Bush (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OCLefty

    Not for the origins but foe then current problems. Two administrations ago. More than a decade ago. Obama ran on ending the war. He has the reins. It's his issue now. He owns it. Crying about it is unbecoming.

  •  Glad to read the NY article, as sanity somehow (13+ / 0-)

    makes me feel a bit better. I'm moving in the morning and am keyed up and exhausted. I needed to feel better!

    The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 08:19:24 PM PDT

  •  It was a war crime from the get-go ... (14+ / 0-)

    ... conceived in the '90's and carried out ASAP under the cover of responding to the Saudi attack on the World Trade Centers.

    "The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated."
    No, that's wrong.  It was well-conceived by Cheney and his helpmeets in his secret meetings, and it was carried out with the goal of enriching many, which it did, in spades.  (They went for the oil, but turned their siphons to the US Treasury when they saw how much higher the ROI was.)  Measured by the actual goals of its perpetrators, the war crime of Aggressive War against Iraq could hardly have gone better.  I'm of the understanding that Bush the Littler, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Carlisle Group, the Neo-Cons, and all the merchants of death have been treated extremely well by fate.

    It is high time we gave up the sophomoric euphemisms.  America committed many war crimes, all of them part of what was referred to when it was legally codified (Nuremberg, 1945-46) as "the crime of all crimes".  I refer, of course, to the war crime of Aggressive War.  "Invasion", "Occupation", "ill-conceived", "ill-executed", and "ill-fated" deliberately miss the point:  we are all war criminals now.  That, at heart, is the quandary Bushit and his puppeteers have left us.  What we do about having committed war crimes — we funded the crimes and re-elected the perpetrators — is the question we should be discussing.

    We know what was done.  We know who did it.  And we know the result:
    Thousands and Thousands tortured and killed.
    Hundreds of thousands killed.
    Millions displaced.
    Billions of dollars paid to "merchants of death".
    And the perps chirp happily on the Sunday TeeVees.

    Perhaps the time has come to look at ourselves.

    Vote rape. Vote torture. Vote War Crimes. Vote with the American top 1%.

    by Yellow Canary on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 08:30:10 PM PDT

  •  Bush and Obama could both be wrong (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OCLefty

    Iraq was mishandled. There was no good plan from the get go and thus we are still dealing with this shit show till today.

    I do not know what the best decision is but what is going on now is/was highly predictable. Ofcourse there was going to be a civil war once the U.S. pulled out completely. Was it the right decision? perhaps.  Either way it was near a statement of fact there this type of event would come to pass.

    What is going to come is a whole lot less predictable.

    Is the U.S. just going to stand by and let half or Iraq become a new Afghanistan with the ISIl reprising the role of the Taliban?

    I cant honestly believe that the U.S. will do nothing. But there are a few more options open at this stage. Working with  The USSR and Iran may actually be an option here.  Im sure somone else can come up with some other new and interesting options.

    Either way the situation is kinda shitty right now.

  •  Iraq what-ifs: (7+ / 0-)

    There was an "Easy" button that would have avoided the whole mess: just leave Saddam in place. He was brutal but the people probably would have suffered less under his continued tyranny than the have over the last 10 years, and than they are going to under ISIS.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:07:07 PM PDT

  •  No more Clintons, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OCLefty, mickT

    no more Bushes.   Embrace it.   Live it.

  •  I've been wondering when... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, JeffW

    ... I'd see the first story from national news about a child or a pet left in a hot car....  It didn't take long for me to run across the first story.

    Dog locked in SUV while owner visits Texas water park on sweltering afternoon

    THIS particular story has a happy ending after a long +/-hour locked in a hot car for this golden lab [be forewarned, several stupid popup ads on this web site], but it will likely not be long before we start reading/hearing about a child or pet dying from heat exhaustion because some stupid "adult" is to selfish to think ahead and/or does not realize that "just a minute" seems like an agonizing hour or more when locked in a hot car (with or without windows open for "ventilation")....

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:29:22 PM PDT

  •  & all built on a lie that LoFos bought completely (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, JeffW
    The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam. When you hear Feith and other architects of the Iraq invasion criticizing Obama for cutting and running, it is well to remember that.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:33:42 PM PDT

  •  The ultimate blame in Iraq (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scott5js, WillR, JeffW

    sits right square in the lap of religious intolerance and sectarianism within Islam.  Yes, in Iraq the U.S. and our allies stirred things up by breaking down what order existed there (Saddam and his cruel but relatively stable dictatorship), but still, the instability exists in Islam no matter what we had or had not done.  Proof of that destructive sectarianism can be seen across the Middle East, and beyond, wherever multiple branches of Islam attempt to exist within a given geographical/political area.

    Sad.

     

    Let the well-being of your fellow man be as dear to you as your own. -- Pirkei Avos

    by Not A Bot on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:41:59 PM PDT

    •  Once a feature of Cristendom (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Not A Bot, Simplify, laurnj, JeffW

      and maybe it still is. There was the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648). Pope Innocent X denounced the Peace of Westphalia as immoral because it condoned the Protestant heresy. Never mind that it ended 30 years of carnage in Germany. Conflict between Christians has certainly become milder, but not completely absent.

      Censorship is rogue government.

      by scott5js on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:55:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are full of shit. (0+ / 0-)

      Islam is no better or worse than Christianity. They both suck.

      •  And OBTW... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JeffW, Eric Nelson

        ...Look at what the wonderful Christians did to the nominally Muslim city of Sarajevo, then we'll talk.

      •  Full of what? The post structure (0+ / 0-)

        here makes it appear you're answering me.  I didn't even mention Christianity, mainly because the topic was Iraq, which was, last I looked, a Muslim mess, not a Christian one.  There's a chance my sentence structure is full of something, but that's a function of age and several contradictory languages competing for limited operating space in a calcified brain.

        Since you bring it up, though, I can't think of much to historically justify the existence of either Islam or Christianity, but that's just me.  Nice buildings.  They've made some nice buildings.  Beyond that, not much.  

         

        Let the well-being of your fellow man be as dear to you as your own. -- Pirkei Avos

        by Not A Bot on Mon Jun 16, 2014 at 01:27:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  We absolutely must rush in to preserve (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb, Pluto

    the failed state we created.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 09:51:37 PM PDT

    •  I assume you are kidding? (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry if I'm dense, but I didn't see a :) after your comment.

      It won't work to use our military might to "save" those who don't want to "save" themselves.

      Yes, Bush was naive in thinking that most people in the world, and the Middle East in particular, value democracy over cultural, religious, and ethnic tribalism dating back for hundreds and thousands of years. I will freely admit that I had biases in that direction (although, in my defense, I didn't have a staff and access to top secret intelligence to help me form opinions) but reality has fixed that in the ensuing years.

      It appears that Obama was also extremely naive in this regard. He promised to pull out during the campaign. I don't recall him talking about what he would do if Iraq devolved into civil war. As I expected this to happen, I assumed Obama was implying that he would just step back and watch a civil war unfold and only protect our borders and assist our allies in protecting theirs should that be necessary.

      It now appears that Obama was just as naive and short sighted as Bush was -- even though he had more benefit of hindsight than Bush did.

      The best Obama can do at this point is prop up failed governments in Iraq for weeks, months, or maybe a few years. That's a fool's errand. The money would be better spent on K-12 education in the United States - but I suppose that wouldn't enrich the military contractors as much. It's amazing how someone can change in six years as they progress from inexperienced naive candidate to lame duck President.

      •  I was being a wise ass. We went in there (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pluto, Creosote, laurnj, JeffW

        for illegitimate reasons, many of them; the outcome was known to great numbers of us before Bush seized the opportunity to move on some of the PNACs action agenda, just as we knew he would go for it if Congress didn't stop him.  

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:39:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  First off, Iraq was never "won". (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Simplify, Pluto, Eric Nelson, JeffW

        The temporary peace in Iraq came about only because we started paying off Sunni insurgents not to fight us ("the surge"). When we left Iraq (which we had to do because they kicked us out of their country) that deal was off.

        Second, it was Bush who set in motion the timetable for withdrawal from Iraq before he left office, not Obama.

        Third, it was Al-Maliki and the rest of the people Bush put in charge in Iraq who refused to let us keep a residual force in Iraq after we left, not Obama.

        Finally, its no longer our problem. The lying Republican a-holes who lied us into Iraq and who are blaming Obama for the events today in Iraq are really the ones to blame, and they know it.

        We could have stayed in Iraq for 100 years (like McCain wanted to do) and when we left something like this was bound to happen. Iraq has sectarian differences that go back hundreds of years. The only thing they hate more than each other is us.

        “I would like to get rid of the homophobes, sexists, and racists in our audience. I know they're out there and it really bothers me.” ― Kurt Cobain

        by Jeff Y on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 11:43:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  To be sure, it is our problem to the extent tha... (0+ / 0-)

          To be sure, it is our problem to the extent that we have not come to terms with our country's guilt in making offensive war for empire. It will be our problem until we prosecute the war criminals, apologize to the people of Iraq, and change our country's political-economic structure to become a peace-loving nation.

          Even the passage of time is not enough, for if it had been, the Vietnam War experience would have led us to not invade Iraq.

  •  That question also from the New Yorker.. (7+ / 0-)

    ..10 years ago, I found from 2004 and commented on in Vyan's Dairy.

    John Lee Andserson @ New Yorker was already questioning the move that, at the time was already thought to have fueled the beginning of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, which was then original to the scion, ISIS (Islamic State iof Iraq an al)sham), caused by the policy of de-Baathification.
    The United States’ de-Baathification program fuelled the insurgency. Is it too late for Bush to change course?

    President Bush named L. Paul Bremer III as the head of what became known as the Coalition Provisional Authority. On May 16, 2003, Bremer issued a sweeping ban of the Baath Party: all senior party members were barred from public life; lower-level members were also barred, but some could appeal. In effect, Bremer had fired the entire senior civil service. The origins of the decree have never been clarified, but Coalition officials I spoke to said they believed that Bremer was following orders from the White House. A week later, he disbanded the Iraqi Army.

     - emphasis added

    I'm glad the true history exposing the depth of vainglorious incompetence mixed in with corruption is now coming to light.
    The mess caused by the neo-cons around the world and over many years is staggering, so much so - imo- it's hard to see how far it goes in one session looking at it.
     So this is good. Report after report adding to the picture and the real "legacy" of neo-cons made mostly of the "conservative" movement party

    Thx MB

  •  Iraq will always be broken now. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb, StillAmused

    It doesn't matter what Obama or anyone else does with Iraq--it will turn out bad no matter what they do. Even though he was an evil man, Saddam was the only "stability" Iraq had and we took care of that.

    While the hawks whine about Obama, they forget THEY broke Iraq by stupidly invading the country when they didn't even have any plans or goals. "Let's stay there forever until they love us" is NOT a plan.

  •  What is really messed up about the whole thing: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thatsitfortheotherwon

    Most people knew (even in the military) that invading Iraq had nothing to do with any actual need or immediate military strategy. Shrub's weak excuses about Saddam trying to kill "his daddy" was just before the crap about WMDs.

    And the Burn Pits? You know the military used to give training way back in the day to members regarding proper disposal of hazardous waste, and the dangerous of certain substances in fires. I guess the same guy that told Mayor Juliani that NYC air was safe to breathe after 911 took over that specific module.

    "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

    by GreenMother on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:07:07 PM PDT

  •  " ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto

    ...and ill-justified and ill-planned and ill-funded and ill-followed up, etc...  And that was just the invasion.  Forget the occupation.  Thankfully we didn't invade Syria where Assad was fighting ISIS or bombed Iran who is helping Malaki against ISIS.  We sure did great with the surge in Afghanistan and the drones in Pakistan, Somalia and elsewhere.  

    In a certain way we benefited from the Iraq and Afghanistan messes otherwise we would have invaded Ukraine by now and the Cold War would look like a pic-nic.

    Sorry for my negativism.  I'm still hopeful that we will not re-invade Iraq or Syria or bomb Iran or do something else equally insane.  

    We should focus in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador where all these children are walking away from.  But let's not send the CIA again.  Let's do something positive for a change.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:11:34 PM PDT

  •  When will we ever learn? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, Pluto, Jeff Y, janis b, JeffW

    What Ian Welsh said

    The West Should Just Stop Intervening

    ISIS is a deeply problematic organization, as is the Taliban, but here’s what they have going for them: they believe and they’re willing to fight and die.

    The situation in Iraq will be determined on the ground, by those people willing fight and die: the Kurds, ISIS, various non ISIS aligned Sunni militias, and the Shia militias.  It will be determined by Iran, who is the only country which could intervene and maintain the peace otherwise.

    If the US chooses not to accept this, not to allow this to play out, it will be stuck in Iraq for another ten years, and during that time Iraq will stay destabilized and more and more people will die

    There are no good options here, but whatever solution is come to, it must be determined by people who have a real stake in the area, who are willing to fight and die for their beliefs. Only they can impose a peace.  There’s a very good chance that it will be a very ugly peace, much like the Taliban imposed in Afghanistan.

    So be it.  I don’t like it, but there are NO other solutions which are better.  American intervention again is not a better option. [..]

    The West must stop intervening in other parts of the world.  Getting rid of Qaddafi destabilized not just Libya, but two others.  Attacking Afghanistan has destabilized Pakistan. The.  Stop. It. The West doesn’t know how to do it successfully. It always makes things worse.  Don’t intervene militarily and stop intervening covertly, as in Ukraine.

    Just stop.

    I know it has always been about oil for one hundred years. It is long past time to stop.

    Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them. Dalai Lama

    by SamanthaCarter on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:28:18 PM PDT

  •  If Bush the Wimpier had not set boots upon Saudi (4+ / 0-)

    Arabian ground in the earlier ill conceived (should have held to Gillespie Doctrine or not stated it) idiot war against Iraq, Al Qaeda may well have been content screwing with the Russians. American policy is the middle east is an historically continuous clusterfuck. Aside from pure humanitarian efforts, we've no business being there.

    You show a little grit and you lands in jail.

    by cal2010 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 10:49:40 PM PDT

  •  New petition to remove Fred Hiatt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, Jeff Y, StillAmused, emmasnacker

    Speaking of blame on Iraq, how about the guy who helped shove the invasion down America's throats eleven years ago?  Yes, Washington Post editorial page editor has a new column out tonight about Iraq, and it comes complete with his trademarked utter lack of ownership over the Catastrophe That Won't End.  

    So maybe it's a good time to link to a new petition at MoveOn to Post owner Jeff Bezos to fire Fred Hiatt.  

    http://petitions.moveon.org/...

    Please consider signing and spreading the word.  It is incomprehensible that this man is still influencing opinion in this country after everything that's happened.  

    Thanks.

  •  Chris Floyd's harsh, but true, commentary on Iraq: (0+ / 0-)

    The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

    by lotlizard on Sun Jun 15, 2014 at 11:22:36 PM PDT

  •  Sometimes DKos Needs to Take a Break from Itselfnt (0+ / 0-)
  •  Best Game of Thrones Ever. (0+ / 0-)

    But I'm pissed at Arya. She's kind of a dick.

  •  In coming years, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, Thatsitfortheotherwon

    the authors of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders will evolve a new classification — well beyond delusion, megalomania and ideological dysfunction — to characterize the broken humans who blithely ignited the entire (already unstable) Mideast in pursuit of some childlike objective that none of them can credibly describe in coherent, convincing English.

    ... an objective whose inescapable outcome will be perpetual violent reaction by centuries-old cultures and tribal subgroups who foolishly believe they own the ground on which they live.

  •  Blame-placing is fun and lets people rant at will, (0+ / 0-)

    but Iraq is going to play a role in the 2016 elections.

    A decent outcome will be OK, and lend itself to "See what happens when you work in a grown-up way?"

    A bad outcome has all manner of gremlins:

    There's "stupid to invade" on the one hand, vs "How could you not see this coming?" or, if somebody says they did see this coming, "So you lied to us in order to hasten the withdrawal of US support", and who knows what else.

    In such a case, the best thing might be to ram a Constitutional amendment through the ratification process that will not merely allow George W. Bush to be the Republican candidate, but require it.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Mon Jun 16, 2014 at 06:32:09 AM PDT

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