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It's probably late at night where you are, I doubt that this will be read by very many people, but I just had to get this nagging.... thing off of my chest. I gave it a day to fade away, but it just didn't want to go away on its own.

So a funny thing happened the other day. Professional conspiracy theorist and serial goldbug-for-hire Glenn Beck "admitted" that liberals were right about Iraq. Now does he get a Cookie? Setting aside (for the moment) that Beck "admitted" that liberals were right about Iraq not because invading Iraq was a bad idea sold by a bunch of liars with premeditated bullshit as that was the case that they (we, us?) made, but basically because he has come to the racist conclusion that Iraqis, in his estimation, are basically just incomprehensible savages that are incapable of appreciating freedom. What if. What if it was just "liberals were right about Iraq"?

No.

No Cookie for Glenn Beck.

If he offers you a Cookie?

Assume there is nice crunchy glass in it.

As far as I am concerned, even if he wasn't just "crediting" Liberals by way of dismissing millions of people with a conservative meme about Muslims as if that was a part of the liberal rationale for not invading Iraq. No Cookie. You don't get a Cookie for being the last person to admit reality is reality. That's as much a part of being a dead-ender as anything that John Bolton has done since Bush left office. Glenn Beck will be saying climate change scientists were right, I'm sure, after half of Florida is underwater and it means absolutely nothing. But what really just got me was that there were smart people who were, well, kinda pumped up, "pumped and jacked" as Pete Carroll used to say when he was the just-passing-through coach of the post-Parcells pre-Belichick New England Patriots, like this was a real thing.

It was... surprising. And a little sad. It bothered me. Not in a white-hot fly into a rage and get yourself in a comment-thread flame war and chase the Hidden Comments Hall of Fame kind of way, but in a weary sort of way. Like it was a wave of intellectual humidity that was just suddenly hanging in the memory palace where you think.

I have this (apparently) weird-ass rule about US politics 'you only have to call me Hitler once'.

The age of hoping the legions of bad faith "wake up" or "find shame" is over for me. Done.

One thing I will never, ever, ever understand is being grateful and thankful for crumbs from bad faith operators dropped off of the table years after everybody else on the planet is up to speed as if it's profound. Wanting to believe so badly that a sociopathic conman for cash can be lipbiting because he's being legit or feeling shame if you just have faith and hope long enough. Say it was a straight admission. Why is this worthy of "credit"? At all? Why? What is the basic compulsion of good and decent people to suspend their disbelief and give a conman credit for good faith?  A mugger. He mails you back your empty wallet ten year after the crime, oh, and at some point he slit the wallet open so it has no bottom so it's just a ruined empty wallet. But the gesture. The gesture. Somebody vile might be redeemable.

What gesture?

Because it makes you feel good? For a minute. Until he then says that you are America-hating cancerous scum for a new more pressing reason that isn't true or vomits up some new horseshit about how you hate America because you think the Kochs should pay taxes? His premise was couched in a racist notion about Muslims basically being somehow ethnically unworthy of Operation Bomb Iraq until They Love Us, Israel, and it's Dayton Ohio and he couldn't even get through this tall glass of swamp water and goat's piss without tacking on some bad faith bullshit at the end about liberals and Bush. Why would any liberal hearing things that should have been said a decade ago even if they had been said in good faith make them feel good enough to give credit?

I don't understand. They are destroying this country with each inch they overtake.

They look for signs of weakness as a sign to tell them who and where to attack. They try to get you to navel-gaze so they know who to run down and smash to bits first.

Yay! I have to Glenn Beck credit! Even if I don't wanna. He made non-Crazy face hole sounds.

Why? 2014. Why do you? At all?  

He's just going to say that Malia and Sasha or Michelle Obama look fat or frumpy tomorrow. He's gonna tee up a story about how Obama knew Benghazi was going to go down, premeditated murder by neglect, and he let it happen. Wait. I know. Obama always knew where the mastermind of Benghazi was all along, but he didn't go get him until he had to take Bowe Bergdahl off the front page. It's just a stunt to change the narrative about the 5 for 1 "treason". This is just setting up something else. I've been swimming in liberal waters for the last decade or so. I still don't get the urge to overlook bad faith for feel-good wishful thinking.

Lucy. Football. Aaaaaaaagh!!!!!

What does it change?

Besides spark a Politico column where Dylan Byers demands that liberals all must give Glenn Beck credit for doing this the next time he says that the Obama administration is planning on doing something crazybatshit and so he should be impeached. It rings so hollow. Wingnut says "Okay, Bill Clinton didn't have Vince Foster murdered. Okay? I said it. Okay?" or "Hey, remember me, from the 1990's, I'm real sorry I shot that pumpkin or watermelon or whatever it was and said it was just like how you shot Vince Foster in the head. You didn't kill him. I can admit that now. Friends?" Cookie? In 2014? You want a Cookie for saying you were so, so, wrong back in the late 90's now? No. No cookie. No 'thank you for standing up'. No way. No how. This is my way of clearly indicating to the universe than I am not going to automatically answer "sucker say what?" with "what?" because that is what some folks think of as being hopeful.

I think about all the sons and daughters and mothers and fathers who have died in Iraq.

Beck can take his "admission", with or without qualifiers, and stick it where the sun don't shine.

If his mouth is moving, bad faith is oozing out, and it should not be considered a possible source of some refreshing hope and feel-good spring water. Assume there's a con or an angle if he stays something that sounds decent or fair or magnanimous. "Liberals were right about Iraq"? You take that as anything profound at your peril. It's not real. Worse, it's something not real that sets you up for another con. There's still plenty of time for an impeachment that has no chance to succeeding except to say that it means that Obama has a black mark on his record. Beck will be right there with them.

I don't know. Maybe politics is just getting to me. It's almost been a decade and a half since Florida 2000 and the bad guys started a trillion dollar war and still can do the vile shit that they do. Sometimes I think everything in non-Conservative politics is always going to be a lot harder or take a lot longer than it should be because it's just tradition. This is how we roll.

Why are those motherfuckers so goddamned enabled. They have a shitload of money. They are pretty much unburdened by consciences or shame. The Village lets them do whatever the fuck they want or say whatever they want to say, because, "both sides". Why lower the gloves because some wingnut says something you want to hear?

At one time, he was fine with floating the notion that we, basically, were building FEMA (or whatever government acronymie-thingie sounded more ominous to serially bedwetting rich white guys) death camps in the desert. When we weren't busy putting old people to death with our Barry Che Mao Soweto ObummerCare Death Panels. Nope. No Cookie for the Beckster.

I thought it would pass if I slept on it. It didn't. I guess maybe it bothers me as much as it does because I don't want to find out how bad it has to get before everybody is on the same page about the universal role of pure bad faith and the advancement of Movement Conservatism. There is no way that in 2014 any member of the Movement Conservative commentariat should be able to hold up a shiny object and get a single "oooh, shiny! Pretty!" even for a hot minute.

UPDATE: I quoted this analysis from Hullabaloo in the comments because I think it's important, and upon reflection I think that it's important enough to place in the diary so that others can go and read it themselves. Beck is tacking on a very offensive notion that has absolutely nothing to do with his attention porn trolling of the Left and Center Left with any "Liberals were right" declarations. This: "we shouldn’t nation-build and there was no indication the people of Iraq had the will to be free" is Frank Gaffneyan racist poppycock that Beck, with what I feel to be malicious premeditation, tacks on as if this white nationalist 'they were unworthy of us taking up the white man's burden' garbage was a liberal notion or progressive argument against the invasion of Iraq.

Glenn Beck falls back on the racist failure condition of the neoconservative

by David Atkins

Glenn Beck has come to the conclusion that liberals were right about Iraq because those damned Iraqi savages just don't want freedom, after all:

   “In spite of the things I felt at the time when we went into war, liberals said, ‘We shouldn’t get involved, we shouldn’t nation-build and there was no indication the people of Iraq had the will to be free,’” Beck said. “I thought that was insulting at the time. Everybody wants to be free.”

    On Tuesday, Beck admitted, “You cannot force democracy on the Iraqis or anybody else, it doesn’t work. They don’t understand it or even really want it.”

As Naomi Klein discussed at length in the Shock Doctrine, this is the standard modern imperial playbook: smash and grab for resources and corporate gain, pretend it's about freedom, and then when the locals get angry and everything turns to chaos, claim that there's something culturally wrong with the people that they just don't understand freedom. The same playbook was run after American corporate-backed intervention led to fascist juntas in South America. The same rhetorical games were played after the fall of the Soviet Union--those Ruskies just didn't appreciate freedom, it was said. And now we see the same game in Iraq.

Glenn Beck falls back on the racist failure condition of the neoconservative

Originally posted to LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 09:55 PM PDT.

Also republished by Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for reading this if anyone does (82+ / 0-)

    I didn't think it was fair to post something like this in the middle of the afternoon and bump some policy or election diary that somebody worked all day on down the line in a high traffic time.

    Venting steam or vocalizing being weary and frustrated by things that bother me always seems a little selfish to me, but this wasn't going to stop nagging at me until I got it out.

    "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

    by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 09:59:41 PM PDT

    •  You're exactly right. (40+ / 0-)

      There's no sense in negotiating with followers of Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity etc.

      The Democratic Party will negotiate away the New Deal and the Civil Right Acts of '65 and '68 if we let them.

      The Republican opposition is fabulously wealthy, well paid and well disciplined.

      There's no sense in negotiating with bad faith actors.

      Keep pushing for a strong populist, Democratic agenda.

      That's the only way forward.

      -9.50/-7.59 - "Why are the missiles called peace-keepers when they're aimed to kill?" -Tracy Chapman

      by Situational Lefty on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 10:32:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. (35+ / 0-)

        I don't care if he's sorry. He's a decade and almost a half too late.

        Like I said, he'll be "apologizing" for "being wrong" about climate change when there are pictures of bodies floating in Miami in the history holograms.

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:09:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Which begs the question... (16+ / 0-)

          Why do people still listen to those assholes? They're consistently wrong about everything and they're a million times more stubborn about it than the most stubborn mule that ever walked the earth.

          I love how you mention global warming. The coastal regions could be under water and they'd still be saying "it aint global warming."

          •  Personally (14+ / 0-)

            The wingnuts listen to them because wingnuts love the bubble. It's comforting. Everything you believe is Godly, everything "they" believe is evil, and someday you will get to enjoy their pain. In this world or the next. They'd rather hate somebody trying to help them than believe that they are being scammed.

            As far as non-Conservatives who give them breaks, and chances, and give them credit where none is really due?

            I think there is something weirdly seductive about somebody who has spent their whole career calling people liars, America haters, and all sorts of other bad faith bullshit one day just saying what people want to hear.

            Glenn Beck trolled non-Conservatism with a bullshit admission of nothing the other day.

            "Admitting" liberals were "right".

            (But not really, as in this case. Beck is not admitting Liberals were right at all if you dig into what he really is saying here.)

            I don't have any explanation for the phenomena of the liberal who has been slapped in the face a thousand times who, still, wakes up one day, thinks they hear a sign of good faith or an admission they were wrong, and bites on the head fake or the con.

            "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

            by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:15:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  All that is true, and yet I still think it is a (6+ / 0-)

            good thing that Beck made the statement he did about "not one more life…" and there is nothing wrong with our recognizing that it was a good thing.

            Not all right wing pundits are saying "no more." Many are doubling down on their hideous errors.

            So if Beck has finally seen the light on one issue, I'm glad he's saying so to his bat shit crazy audience. Perhaps some of them will come around to his position.

            Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

            by Happy Days on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:24:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, that's absolutely fine (5+ / 0-)

              as long as what it is is seen as what it is and not more than that. No harm in that.

              But we aren't just talking about recognizing voices saying "I think its a good thing" because it makes people feel good. I'm more concerned with The Leap. That is what fundamentally bothers me.

              Glenn Beck said something that allows an interpretation, a tortured interpretation, and only if you strain your bowels to the point of being able to create a diamond under the intense pressure, and only if you choose to ignore all the warnings and bad faith and previous history he has earned, that seems, to some, rather epic.

              I stand in awe of those who can do this to themselves, and not in a good way. In a Homer Simpson "Doh!" way.  

              We are talking about, or at least I am, people who are choosing to go about seeing this untrustworthy character's untrustworthy missive as an event and as a profound thing. A changing thing. A dynamic altering thing. As well as a good faith thing. In defiance of forty plus years of Movement Conservatism and how it actually works and operates. Who are embracing notions that Beck didn't actually express, as if he did, because he used the words "liberals" and "were right" in some way and that was enough of an offering to earn something resembling "credit for good faith" from his traditional smear targets.

              The sheer cliff face of weasel room in a moment that could be as stout as a sand castle in a hurricane is breathtaking. About as breathtaking as the willingness to buy in to the notion that this is an important moment.

              Based on what? Substantively? I have no idea.

              The man is a professional huckster with a long history of making shit up, pimping outrageous conspiracy theories, and carrying water for every dirty shit ball floating around in Rightwing politics.

              I feel good, so I hope this is so.

              I ask for how so? I get, basically, because I feel so good right now that I really hope this is so and hypothetical good things come of this so that is my rock that I plant my flag on.

              But is this more than that? I don't see any evidence that it is. I don't see the argument that locks down that concept in any way.

              Feeling good is great.

              But it's a profound bit of political folly to mistake something that makes you feel good for something profound or fundamentally game changing or more substantive and significant than it is as if they are the same thing. Feel good. There is something wrong in that. Don't let the fact that it feels good let you mistake it for something that is vastly more substantive and meaningful than that. It's self-injurious to do that. Political malpractice if you let it guide your next move as an activist, a party, or a movement.

              Be happy or hopeful if you feel that way.

              But then there is this incredible leap from "I feel good that he said the thing he said" to "this is going to change things, alter the discussion, hobble the Right the next time they make a bad faith fueled attack on x, y, and z."

              Based on what?

              Other than "I feel good" so this means a great deal.

              Or it's this profound moment or event or incident that will go on to have legs and miles and.... oh, boy.  

              Don't mistake something that makes you feel good for something that is more than that. It's a mistake. It can hurt you, there is harm in that.

              So if Beck has finally seen the light on one issue, I'm glad he's saying so to his bat shit crazy audience. Perhaps some of them will come around to his position.
              Personally, I can't hang the weight of Mount Everest and the Hoover Dam on a delicate "if" and "perhaps" based on no other evidence than "it make me feel good to hear this said by the person who said it".  

              I feel good. So. I want this to be more than it is to keep the good vibes flowing.

              That's not a harmless mistake to be making in this era.

              Considering the bottomless pit of bad faith involved with the Movement Conservative Right, I don't see how anybody who has lived through the last thirty years of American politics can do this to themselves.

              I find it more than a little frustrating, frankly, that Glenn Beck is able to play smart and good people for chumps in 2014. After everything. Over wishful thinking and the sugar high of feeling good about the most optimistic take on a fraud who should garner no optimism from the most often maligned of his hated enemies.

              "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

              by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 07:36:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My comment wasn't "it makes me FEEL good" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Whamadoodle

                My comment was simply that it IS good that he said "no more" to sending soldiers and weapons to Iraq.

                He has listeners. Better that he tells them "no more" than if he were to goad them on with tough "go get 'm talk."  It might make them think. It certainly does no harm.

                I'm not saying Glenn Beck is good, either, just because he happened to be right this one time.

                But just cuz Glenn Beck is bad does not mean that it's bad when he says something that's right.

                Otherwise it's kinda like the republicans who don't like anything President Obama says, even when he says stuff that conservatives always believed before.

                Some people fight fire with fire. Professionals use water.

                by Happy Days on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:04:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Based on what? (0+ / 0-)

                  Based on what evidence and/or what argument?

                  I can't go on faith-based notions. Or deliberately overlooking the nasty minefields of bad faith studded all over what he actually said vs. what really smart and decent people basically wish that he said and then stopped.

                  He said a lot more than the one or two things you find to be helpful or good, and the rest is just magically filtered out because... because. His listeners sure as heck didn't miss his inference that Iraq was a disaster and a mistake not because it was a disaster or a mistake, but because the locals were barbarians or savages or backwards and, of course, couldn't take the white man's burden of a leg up to modern times.

                  He said more than the useful bits. A lot more. How do I ignore the poisoned whole for faith-based clinging to the one or two useful bits in isolation? I can't.

                  If you can do that, fine, no problem, thank you for your time and your words and I appreciate your beliefs even if I don't agree with them or find them all that persuasive.

                  He has listeners. Better that he tells them "no more" than if he were to goad them on with tough "go get 'm talk."  It might make them think. It certainly does no harm.
                  Yes. He has listeners. That come from a movement with a track record and a mountain of evidence as to how they deal with things that fly in the face of their bubble. There is precious little actual evidence that you can assume anything but a return to the status quo following some kind of Beckian declaration that he has been misquoted or distorted. It does do harm for non-Conservatives to assume good faith or revise out the bad parts for the meme. It does do us harm to make assumptions based on wishful thinking and hopes for the best.
                  I'm not saying Glenn Beck is good, either, just because he happened to be right this one time.
                  I never said you did. At no time did I say you claimed Beck was good. I'm saying he's only "right" now if you filter out things you don't want to hear or dwell on so that only the good stuff is relevant.  

                  I'm saying he's full of shit, so that makes a more compelling case not to forget the whole lot of it. That he said more than the useful parts, he said the lot of it and the parts that are being left out to buy the best spin or shine on the apple doesn't magically make the vile stuff not count because it's inconvenient.

                  But just cuz Glenn Beck is bad does not mean that it's bad when he says something that's right.
                  No one has argued that. I haven't. What is being argued is that he is not acting in bad faith, he deserves no assumption of good faith based on years of his previous actions and that because he deserves no assumption of good faith based on his previous history, the burden of proof to argue otherwise is not on those who advice wariness or caution, it's on those who say he should be given credit for good faith because what he says feels good to hear from somebody of his ilk. You are deliberately ignoring some vile shit that he said along with the things you found helpful/useful. I can't do that.
                  Otherwise it's kinda like the republicans who don't like anything President Obama says, even when he says stuff that conservatives always believed before.
                  Nonsense. All I asked was that you make your case, hell, any case, that what you say is the wiser better take. The burden of proof on the subject of giving Glenn Beck the assumption of good faith, or taking the leap of faith that this is going to be more of the same is on those who are defying decades of previous experience that says just the opposite of assuming good faith is the way to go.

                  You hope that what you say is what happens.

                  That's fine. Optimism is a wonderful thing.

                  I didn't call you names or attack you. I respect your opinion, I just think it's profoundly wrong while being open to you changing my mind if you can.  

                  All I asked for was a case, and you never made it.

                  Faith-based things, when the thing you have to have faith in is some faction of the Movement Conservative Right, is folly.

                  I hope things turn out for the best too. All the time.

                  I can't trust or rely on that. Or assume that its so. Based on years of how the Right has previously dealt with all sorts of issues and events.

                  All I asked is to be convinced, and I get things I never argued and quips that don't have anything to do with a logical compelling counter-argument.

                  It's 2014, there's a lot at stake, I don't have time for hoping this is the time that Lucy finally lets me kick the football and I don't end up on my back.

                  "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

                  by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:47:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You're fine (0+ / 0-)

                  Your comments were perfectly clear, to anyone uninterested in distorting them. I made several similar comments on this diary, making very clear several times that Glenn Beck was "probably" acting bad faith, and that that was a reasonable thing to assume.

                  I argued, however, that it was like having an alcoholic or drug abuser tell you "I'm getting clean"--are they going to make it? Do they mean it? The odds are, sadly, against it. And no, you don't lend them money. However, you DO say "good for you--yes, I encourage taking the high road," which Glenn Beck APPARENTLY did when he made a halting ("halting" because of the nonsensical assumption that Iraqis don't want freedom) admission that he was wrong about something he fought hard for.

                  Faced with this disquietingly nuanced statement, the diarist decided to cut to the chase and just lie, saying that I was "ignoring" his record. Uh, yeah--saying that it's "perfectly possible and even probable" that Beck is acting in bad faith is "ignoring his record." Sure. And that I was a "Concern troll" for saying so, deriding my "civility," as if "civility" were a horrible, terrible thing, and was intrinsically dishonest.

                  This person hates the whole "civility when someone admits they're wrong" thing because HE doesn't have the strength of character to do so, or to argue in good faith. That's all. He mischaracterizes you as "magically filter[ing]" out Glenn Beck's prior behavior, when all you did was say that it's good to admit he's wrong, though you're "NOT SAYING GLENN BECK IS GOOD, EITHER." (Again, I don't either. I have NEVER agreed with anything Glenn Beck has said or done in the past.) Don't worry about it. This guy is just dishonest, that's all.

        •  And 4700 American soldiers' lives and hundreds of (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LeftHandedMan, hbk

          thousands of Iraqi lives too late.

          I also find fault with his statement that We Who Were Opposed From Jump felt "there was no indication the people of Iraq had the will to be free."  That's just pure bullshit.  We did and do believe they had and have such will, we just didn't believe it was right for us to impose our version of freedom on them, that they had the freedom and right to determine for themselves what freedom meant to them and how to achieve it.  

          It's a little thing called "self-determination" and it's kinda what freedom means.

          When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered -- MLK, Jr.

          by caul on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 07:03:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I know what you mean. (15+ / 0-)

      I find it rather infuriating that they asked some of the same people who took us into Iraq in the first place onto news shows and ask them what they think. Essentially they can be as wrong pretty much every time they speak, and yet we will still treat them like authorities. Its ridiculous.

      Its easy to become jaded, and most of us are I think. Its always one more outrage. I suppose thats why some people might listen to Beck, though really all he is trying to do is get attention.

      Ignorance more frequently begets confidence then knowledge. Charles Darwin

      by martianexpatriate on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:23:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I thought I would get cynical (22+ / 0-)

        but I'm finding that my level of cynicism is staying pretty level, it's this... I guess... weariness? I don't understand why it has to be so hard to not get jammed up by the Right and their minions. They do the exact same shit a lot. The Village too. With their fainting couch and bullshit rules that only apply to liberals and not to conservatives.

        It's nice to hear things you want to hear, but when it's the Devil? It's probably a lie. Or a con.

        Why does anybody care what they think?

        Why?

        How could anybody, in 2014, take them seriously?

        What level of ratfuck horror would have to be descended to before nobody is willing to get caught up in a "gotta give them credit" con.

        It's deeper than just frustration. It's more substantive than impatience. I also reject letting myself get to the point of feeling impotent, because once you feel like you can't make a difference using the only means of making a difference, you are ceding things to the Right by default.

        We have enough problems, without hobbling ourselves. In whatever manner than rolls around.

        I see giving credit where none is deserved or warranted as a part of being magnanimous to a fault. Being hopeful to a fault.  

        Lucy With the Football kind of became a universal icon for getting baited into the same mess or con or jam over and over and over again. At some point, if you get jammed up over and over and over again by the same bad faith jam, you are playing a role in your own getting screwed over.

        I honestly look at the GOP, and Movement Conservatism itself it a larger sense, as requiring enabling on some fundamental level. People playing their part in handicapping themselves against being more effective the next time they come around again.

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:40:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm glad you did get it out; (19+ / 0-)

      it was well worthwhile reading and you are so right about Beck. No cookie for him. A whole box of cookies for you!

      Please note that lamps in the MAGIC LAMP EMPORIUM are on a genie time-share program so there may be a slight delay in wish fulfillment. (◕‿◕)

      by Mopshell on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 01:22:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As far as I'm concerned, LHM... (22+ / 0-)

      You can write whatever the heck you want, rant or otherwise, and post it in the middle of the damn day, all week long.

      How many times have people IMPLORED you to convert your diary-quality comments into their own stand-alone posts?

      I lost count.

      You're a valuable voice here, one we need to hear as often as you're so moved.

      Thanks.




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

      by DeadHead on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 02:19:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  First, I did read it. And second, I agree. (11+ / 0-)

      Yesterday I posted something comparing Beck's apparent pole shift to Arlen Specter's embrace of the Democratic party when he realized that the Republicans had packed up and moved to the right during the night, leaving him behind.  Beck inspired a lot of crazy in the Conservative movement, fed it, nurtured it, fertilized it, and now that it has grown into a 500 lb. pumpkin of crazy, he realizes he can't lift it.  It is actually hilarious that a guy like Beck has decided tht he will be just so crazy, and no crazier.

      My comparison to Arlen Specter holds up for one more step.  Most of us Pennsylvania Democrats did not want him.  We instead remembered the things he had done to us.  I was sorry he was sick, but I was glad he was gone from PA politics.

      This what how I reacted to Beck's comments, as well.  I fully embrace your rule: "You only have to call me Hitler once."  Beck is a day late and a dollar short.

      "If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies." Moshe Dayan

      by TParrish on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 04:30:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you, but (6+ / 0-)

      I'm glad it's getting some visibility. I think it's more connected to policy, or at least our typical behavior as liberals, democrats, whatever your preferred label.

      Personally, I believe those of us on the left, want to believe people and things can be better. Hope, faith in humanity, empathy, etc., they're good things and we want to see them more.

      It just makes it tougher for some to realize that some piles of shit are too big to clean up with one scoop, and the weeper has been cultivating a mountain.

      •  Of course people can change...BUT when they say (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LeftHandedMan, Situational Lefty

        "Hey, I've changed", do you just immediately believe it or do you analyze it?  The diarist has pointed out that Beck may have said the "right" thing for truly nefarious reasons (i.e. promoting the idea that the Iraqi people are not capable or worthy of democracy).  That matters.  

        If the leader of a gang of theives that has robbed houses in your neighborhood several times tells you he's decided robbing your house is a bad thing, not because it's immoral but because your community is on to him and also has little left of value to steal, do you say, "Great, they aren't robbing my house anymore.  Let me go out and buy new things. It's so heartening to see this serial robber has changed his ways and is telling his gang to change as well"?

        Hopefully, you don't say that.  Hopefully you say, "Uh oh, now this miscreant and his gang will move on to robbing other neighborhoods. Let me alert the authorities.  He hasn't changed his character, just his tactics."

        Any other response is being a willing dupe, a cheerleader even.

        - The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. Martin Luther King, Jr. -

        by FreeWoman19 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:47:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think we disagree (0+ / 0-)

          I fully got and agreed with the diarist's point.

          It would be quite a leap for anyone to equate one non-feces laden statement from Beck to "I've changed", though. -Not sure how your metaphor and the implication that it even remotely applies to my comment fit.

    •  Thanks for posting it. (6+ / 0-)

      To tell the truth, I sometimes don't read all of a fairly long diary simply because steady reading online sometimes irritates my eyes. But I read every word of this.

      You said in far more effective ways than I could dream of exactly how I feel about the kind of "admissions" Beck et al. make.

      Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? ~"The Summer Day," Mary Oliver

      by Miniaussiefan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 04:56:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That was thoughtful of you (4+ / 0-)

      and this is a most excellent rant - I enjoyed reading it
      and I completely agree.

      It seems that whenever a right-wing talking head says something reasonable, progressives repeat it in a way that sounds like they are seeking validation or approval.  
      "WOW - even Glenn Beck said it..." .  I don't see the right doing the same thing.

      The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false. - Thomas Aquinas

      by oxley on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:24:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was actually (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LeftHandedMan, hbk

      more surprised by Pat Robertson's remarks about America being sold a bill of goods. (Not that I am any more impressed by it than Beck's change of heart.)

    •  really nicely done diary (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sorry to have come in somewhat too late to rec properly in the comments. But otherwise, tipped recced and tweeted/shared, an' all that jazz.

      Now looking forward to reading the substantial number of comments, when I get back later this afternoon. Judging by how teensy my up-down slider thingy is, I'd guess "if anyone does (read it)" includes quite a few of us.

  •  I Won't Eat The Crumbs From Glenn's Cookies, But (18+ / 0-)

    his reiteration of: not one more soldier, not one more plane, not one more arm, not one more leg, not one more eye for
    this war.....had a certain authenticity to it.

    He will be back to demonizing President Obama tomorrow, I know that.  However, this country is war weary.  Really, really war weary.

    Dick Cheney & Liz Cheney & John McCain & Lindsey Graham haven't figured that out yet.  Even Megyn Kelly of FOX News
    confronted Dick Cheney on his op-ed blaming President Obama
    for the Iraq war on her show tonight.

    Cheney is so out of it, he called her Reagan.  Liz Cheney just looked sour, not liking Daddy's agenda being questioned.

    Poor thang.  

  •  Beck does deserve some credit (13+ / 0-)

    for building a lucrative career on his personality disorder.

  •  That's EXACTLY it (26+ / 0-)

    I don't have to give Glenn Beck credit for a damn thing. I don't care that he supposedly had this epiphany. This expresses exactly what I was unable to articulate beyond "Huh." when I read what this pathetic former morning zoo jock had to say. Unexpected? Perhaps. Do I care? Not really. Having a greater reaction to his comment is akin to accepting an apology from someone for getting mud on your rug when he burned your house down.

    •  yeah, that's a good way to put it (16+ / 0-)
      Having a greater reaction to his comment is akin to accepting an apology from someone for getting mud on your rug when he burned your house down.
      He said what some people wanted to hear from somebody like him. I mean, on the one hand, it's pleasant that so many didn't bite, encouraging, but it's also gobsmacking that anybody is still open to the idea that a guy who simulated pouring gasoline on somebody live on the air is not running some longer con.

      He said what somebody wanted to hear. that's it.

      To the point where the rest of what he said after "Liberals were Right" got tuned out by some. Disturbingly so considering that it's 2014. I could buy getting conned in 1994. 2000. This has been going on for decades now. Bad Faith. Always be lowering the bar.

      It seems, well, weird to me that anybody in the non-Conservative avenues of our politics might still be enticed by hearing what they want to hear from people who don't bother to even hide that they live 100% in bad faith when it comes to how they engage.

      Some of the aspects of liberal politics that just floor me are

      1. Waiting for Civility Godot
      2.  Negotiating in Good Faith with People Acting in Bad Faith
      3. Always Hoping that, One Day, Sociopaths will have a Conscience.
      4. Biting on the Lucy With the Football gag. Again.
      5. Operating in the World You Wished Existed Rather than the One that Does.    

      Glenn Beck saying "Liberals were right about Iraq" being a thing in 2014, as if you can trust him, or anything he says is sincere is weird to me.

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:07:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The "Feeling Noble in the Ashes" thing (13+ / 0-)

        One more thing. The "Feeling Noble in the Ashes" thing.

        Have you ever had a conversation with another liberal or moderate and there is this point where you feel like the person you are talking to almost would be gleeful if the Republicans just won everything so they could feel smug in the ruins? Like that was a consolation prize? When or if they didn't get their way, when things shit the bed and everything went to Hell and, well, sure things are shit, but at least they could tell you "I told you so"?

        I have never really made my peace with that mindset. Even as much as I haven't made my peace with folks who keep trying to kick the football that Lucy is holding. Or who sincerely wish that, if they reach out their hand to be chopped off for the thousandth time, that will be the time the GOPer feels some shame and some pity and suddenly comes to an epiphany and cares about good governance.

        There's a lot of what I feel like are self-inflicted burdens to being on the American Left that I can't fathom how they came to be... tradition?

        My first exposure to the Democratic Party was, I guess you could say, self-hating Democrats who were sure that the only way the Democratic Party could avoid extinction was to become diet Republicans. Everything you would get from the GOP, except humanely dosed out over time. So you could build up a pain tolerance if you were going to be the ones put in pain.

        I never experienced that until I came into the 90's era Center Left. The DLC crowd was all about it. The Deficit Fetishists and Grand Bargaineers were that way too.

        It's like there are layers of an onion designed to keep a movement from being the most effective, responsive, and ruthlessly able to overcome the natural advantages that being the party of money, power, and racial resentment gives the Right.

        It's like, from the moment you decide you are a liberal, you have a cement block tied to each ankle.

        It seems to me that one of the ways of cutting the cords to those blocks is to never listen to people who want you to lose, or, who don't care if you win or lose, because they can find a way to rig things in favor of the rich and powerful either way, but basically they can always get a better deal from the GOP so that is their default.  

        Some days I feel like I'm the crazy one for having that, what seems to me, to be a common sense conclusion to make from events repeating themselves over and over and over again.

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:54:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What Funkmob said! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LeftHandedMan

      And welcome to the Great Orange Satan, Funkmob!

      Welcome to Daily Kos. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Community Guidelines, the Knowledge Base, and the Site Resource Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

      ~~ from the DK Partners & Mentors Team.

      The dinosaurs never saw that asteroid coming. What's your excuse?
      ~~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

      by smileycreek on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:54:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As Joe Biden might say, it was a (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, Mopshell, AnnetteK, a2nite

    big fucking deal.  I don't care how sincere he was.  Or wasn't.  The fact that he said it at all has wingnuts heads spinning.  It's likely that nothing comes of it, but heads are spinning.  And, if that gets just one rank and file wingnut in America's back yard somewhere thinking, "Glenn right. We have no business... " well... that's a big fucking deal.  The wingers on my local yokel web board didn't make so much as a comment to the post I posted about the Beckster.  Not one.  But I suspect their heads spinning, their very foundation shaken to the core.  Or not.  But, the dynamic changed.  And, that's a pretty good start.  "Yeah, but your hero Glenn Beck agreed with us Libtards... "  And, that's some pretty good ammo to fire back at wingers blaming Obama.

    Follow Connect! Unite! Act! MeetUp events! For live podcasting of your Event contact winkk to schedule.

    by winkk on Wed Jun 18, 2014 at 11:39:26 PM PDT

    •  How so? (11+ / 0-)
      But, the dynamic changed.  And, that's a pretty good start.
      The dynamic changed how? If Beck says he was misquoted or misunderstood this morning, because quoting a wingnut is a smear in Bill O'Reily and Sean Hannity's era, they will take that and move on, so, what has changed?

      And start of what, exactly?

      Glenn Beck falls back on the racist failure condition of the neoconservative

      by David Atkins

      Glenn Beck has come to the conclusion that liberals were right about Iraq because those damned Iraqi savages just don't want freedom, after all:

          “In spite of the things I felt at the time when we went into war, liberals said, ‘We shouldn’t get involved, we shouldn’t nation-build and there was no indication the people of Iraq had the will to be free,’” Beck said. “I thought that was insulting at the time. Everybody wants to be free.”
          On Tuesday, Beck admitted, “You cannot force democracy on the Iraqis or anybody else, it doesn’t work. They don’t understand it or even really want it.”

      Beck didn't actually buy the Liberal premise for why the war was a mistake. At all. It's pretty insidious how 'liberals were right' and the notion that 'we can't save people who don't want to be saved because they culturally do not want to live like modern enlightened people as a whole' was tack-welded together by this bad faith pimp. "Liberals were right" as an attention-getter shouldn't end the analysis of what he did the other day. In some bizarro world where Liberals were Pam Atlas beyond the opening statement this might make sense.

      I get it's exciting to think this is a big deal. It makes you feel good. Like you got a win. They aren't ever acting or arguing in good faith. So the rules that govern balls and strikes don't apply. It's Calvinball, not Chess.

      How can it be a big fucking deal, that changes the dynamic, and likely that nothing comes of it at the same time?

      "their very foundation shaken to the core. Or not."

      I, uh, well. Which is it?

      A gotcha or the Tsar Bomba.

      This is very real and very important to me. Do we fight the Right as they are, knowing them and how they do things as they do them, or do we fight them as we imagine them to be, and with the notion that what makes us feel good about ourselves is as equally valid as a win or having the upper hand?

      It's likely that nothing comes of it, but heads are spinning.  And, if that gets just one rank and file wingnut in America's back yard somewhere thinking, "Glenn right. We have no business... " well... that's a big fucking deal.
      No. It's not.

      It's mistaking something that makes you feel good for a win or an advantage.

      That's the tactical mistake that people who serially troll websites make when they successfully disrupt a comment thread and act like they just won something.

      That's a mistake. It's not going to help in the longrun to view fighting them this way.

      I'm sincerely curious, and flummoxed by how to make heads or tails of your take. I'm respecting your opinion, but I'm confused as holy hell. If they agree that Glenn is right, they are not agreeing that "Liberals were right" because Beck's case is not remotely Liberals take on why the war was a mistake. If anything, it's Frank Gaffney's take on why Muslims couldn't be helped, it's just that many people who are gleeful that Beck said "Liberals were right" didn't listen to everything he said after that point. Or what he said after than point wasn't important as long as the winguts were riled up.

      I've read your comment, like five times, and you say its nothing and everything at the same time. Wingnuts having a temper-tantrum over things they don't want to hear from a disposable syringe in human form has never, ever moderated Movement Conservatism since the Goldwater Landslide led to the dawn of what we have today.

      The idea that good faith is going to finally creep or seep into a bad faith movement, from the ground up no less, fascinates me. I don't see any evidence that this is a predictive phenomena by looking at decades of Movement Conservatism and how the base of the party parses information, good or bad news.

      Movement Conservatism has been consistently wrong, about everything, from foreign policy to banking to international economics to domestic economics to inflation to energy policy to climate policy to nation building to heathcare to wages and growth.

      Not a single, solitary "aha!" moment. In 40+ years.

      Glenn Beck's premise is not that Liberals were right because of the reasons that liberals opposed the war, he pretty clearly tacked on the notion that Iraqis are pretty much a racist white nationalist's notion of what an unappreciative heathen savage is. That it wasn't worth it not because it was a lie, or sold on lies, but because these folks were not worth saving because they are not built as a people to do anything but squander it. We should have known better because... Muslim. Not Us. Them. Other.

      Never met a liberal who ever held or argued that view in any way, let alone underpinning why they opposed the invasion of Iraq after 9/11. Ever.

      Oh, and then he tacks on some crap about liberals being unfair to Bush. So. Give him a Cookie. And scold those bad faith hippies who won't return the favor.

      That's not "Liberals were Right", that's somebody who was wrong on every count of a conflict of choice who is sympathetic to a racist notion about a foreign "Other" as a cop-out to really embracing why the Iraq War was wrong. Wingnuts flipping out because the puke funnel is not sounding right is not really a transformational moment. When Glenn Beck says tomorrow that Bowe Bergdahl is a traitor, and that Obama "found" the mastermind of Benghazi as a distraction from Benghazi, they will be right back to banging their bones into the ground like the wild men from the beginning of the Kubrick film 2001.

      That is a far cry from accepting the liberal case that it was a bogus war of choice, sold on lies, by serial liars who came into power with the agenda to start a war with Iraq 9/11 or no.

      I have never heard a liberal make the case against what neoliberals call "Humanitarian Intervention" based on the notion that the native population to be transformed was too backwards to appreciate the noble white man's burden being taken up to better them.

      That matters. More than some freaks making confused mouth noises and flinging poo in the zoo cess pools of the wingnutosphere.

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:43:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Also, sincerely, thank you for your comment (7+ / 0-)

        my reply did come off as harsher than I ever intended it to in a few places, and I apologize for that. It was not my intent.

        I do respect your opinion, my expressions of confusion are in good faith, not snark or sarcasm, and I did not want anything that I said to be taken as meant to be insulting or a putdown of your opinion or ideas because I'm sometimes far too blunt an instrument while I'm pounding out a diary-comment as a response.

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:59:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Many on DKos say Iraqis have no "will to be free". (3+ / 0-)

          It's a popular and well rec'd comment on many Iraq diaries.

          The BushCo experience so traumatized Americans we adopt anti-war rationales without always filtering out poor, selfish, or racist thought.

          DKos variations on Beck's racist view of Iraqis' anti-freedom DNA:

          Iraqis want civil war.
          Iraqis don't want stability.
          ISIS is what Iraqis want.
          Muslims prefer dictatorships.
          Iraqis just need to slaughter back those that slaughter them.
          We should butt out and let Iraqis choose their system.
          Iraqis want partition so that's what should happen.

          Such views are wrong. They are as impoverished as the neo-cons' views they set out to oppose -- and end up repeating verbatim.

          Americans want to stay out of war at all costs. Fine. Say it!

          Don't use Beck's false and racist defenses to minimize the current slaughter -- or to intimate Iraqis deserve it, brought it on themselves, or merit no global attention.

  •  One way or another (12+ / 0-)

    Beck did it for the attention. He fully understood his brand is in a downward spiral, so shaking things up gets him some attention, which is better (for him) than going out of business without a fight.

    You said it like no one else ever will again, LeftHandedMan.  I loved your rant!  I owe you!!

  •  Wow. Just wow. (15+ / 0-)

    One of the best diaries/rants I've read in quite a while. Thanks!

  •  Agree with everything you said. (12+ / 0-)

    I am so with you on being done.  I don't want to talk to these people or hear them.  I want them to be voted into oblivion, I want their heads and voices to shrink like Beetlejuice's and I want their hateful words and actions memorialized in a Hall of Shame for future generations to mock and condemn for the petty, un-American, treasonous acts they were.

    Having the right answer for the wrong reasons is meaningless, especially Beck's wrong reason.  He hasn't changed his spots, he's still a psycho opportunist who hates America but gets rich off of pretending to love it.  The media that enables him is owned by the enemies of democracy.

    I'm reading A Nation of Deadbeats about the financial disasters in this country since 1792.  I'm up to the second crash in 1819.  The causes were complicated and entangled but mostly boiled down to overconfidence, cronyism and unbridled greed.  Except for the fact that a lot of ordinary people always suffer, there's something a bit satisfying in tales of how the mighty do fall - if not often, then at least spectacularly ("is it wrong that I'm smiling?").

    I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. - Oscar Wilde

    by penelope pnortney on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:00:54 AM PDT

  •  he's using it for his own ends, obviously (6+ / 0-)

    I think I'll ignore him, except to say that if says liberals were right then he's saying it for the wrong reason.

    Dear NSA: I am only joking.

    by Shahryar on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:01:37 AM PDT

  •  I put it down (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    6ZONite, LeftHandedMan, NoMoreLies

    to he got hit a little to hard on the head that day, and didn't really know what he was saying. Or at least that's what he'll try to claim when all the RWNJ's call in to his show.

    "Nothing travels faster than the speed of light, with the possible exception of bad news. Which follows its own special rules." ~ Douglas Adams

    by coyote66 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:01:48 AM PDT

  •  Let's celebrate those who were right to start (10+ / 0-)

    with, not those who needed 12 years to learn how. Glenn Beck is that dumb.. he needed thousands of deaths to prove him wrong, and he expects applause for finally getting it.

    Nope. I am going to applaud only  those who voted against the Authorization to Use Military Force in 2003.

    Everyone else, take a back seat. You are not driving the bus any more.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:13:13 AM PDT

  •  When Glenn Beck speaks (12+ / 0-)

    I can feel my ears desperately trying to seal themselves with wax.

    So I turn off the volume, then my eyes revolt, then I close the tab.

    "I decided it is better to scream. Silence is the real crime against humanity." Nadezhda Mandelstam

    by LaFeminista on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:18:45 AM PDT

  •  This is already a "thing" on the right. (8+ / 0-)

    They will be howling anti-war slogans when and if Obama takes action against the ISIS.
    Then they'll feel like they've got a lever against Hillary.

    In the meantime they'll also have McCain/Graham out there hammering Obama for not doing enough, and for withdrawing our troops.

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:22:49 AM PDT

  •  The sad thing is (9+ / 0-)

    that the "brown or black people are incapable of participating in democracy" meme is very pervasive on the right.

    It's the same thing they use to justify taking away voting rights.  So, no, Glenn Beck, you do not get a cookie for being a racist.

    30, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:45:29 AM PDT

    •  Nope. No Cookie. (8+ / 0-)

      The more I think about what he said after he trolled non-Conservatism with attention porn, the angrier I get that it was a shiny bright light that got chased around the floor by a few desperate for something to feel good about folks.

      I want to be the kitten that doesn't give a shit about the red dot from the laser pointer flying around the hardwood floor.

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:50:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is pervasive throughout (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yonit

      conservative ideology.  They set up the board game so that they are the only ones who can win.  Then they tell the other players that they are inferior whiners.  

      "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

      by Reepicheep on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:23:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah. This. (4+ / 0-)

    Elements of acceptance of what could easily be (probably is?) a false flag operation strikes me similar to that of people with battered spouse syndrome, especially when it comes to such a dishonest broker with such easily perceived ulterior motives as Glenn Beck.

    I figure, what's the hurry?  I'm happy to evaluate this clown for couple of years or so and see how ticks.  Let's see how he scores on the test of time.  If he's still consistently making "liberals were right" noises in 2016 or 2017, maybe I'll take a fresh look at him.

    Every day, I get up and pray to Jah . . take the skinheads bowling . . take them bowling . .

    by thenekkidtruth on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:47:45 AM PDT

  •  A sincere thank you to the people (7+ / 0-)

    who put this diary in the community spotlight section, and who tagged it as rescued.

    People who monitor the content of this site have so much to do and so much to look at that I'm honored they took the time to take a look in and see.

    "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

    by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 12:52:53 AM PDT

  •  Went to HS with Beck's fixer and it's desperate! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, AnnetteK, a2nite

    Not saying I had anything to do with the above change in idea but the fixers and the Republican political machines are out and about waiting to kill our message by changing their message -- but they are. They are trying desperately to be your friend and fix their message!

    I'm Jewish and at some point lived in TX so I know about Rapture concept. I now live in Chicago and am very active in politics. The HS Jewish guy I speak of friended me on FB. I accepted. He once posted, on FB, something about a crazy ass idea and I sent a private message warning him that this idea was leading to Rapture. I noted that Rapture required the death of Jews for it to happen. Crickets.

    Then, some time later, during the Rush Sandra Fluke issue he had pictures of himself on a private jet and a FB status about losing friends. I Googled him and found out he was Rush's fixer.

    Some time last year, during a dust up on some issue that I posted on FB and one of his idiot's needed fixed, he showed up on my FB. He tried to provoke my Chicago crowd. They didn't bite but he had his ass handed to him from others. In the dust up. I was unfriended as he admitted that the only reason he engaged me was to get into the head of liberals so he could find a way to sway them to vote Republican.

    So I this weekend I posted an article to FB noting that with Cantor out there isn't a single Jew in the Republican delegation! Another HS friend, a known entity that lives in the same city as him, starts dissing him and talking smack about his cred in their City. How he is a joke.

    So here it goes and I did my best to hide identities:

    Rush Beck Idiot: Funny how there's always an excuse for the horrible behavior of this administration and it's leadership.
    October 8, 2013 at 12:43pm · 1

    Me: Allegory, analogy, etc. aren't excuses they are:
    a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
    synonyms: parable, analogy, metaphor, symbol, emblem

    Read polls, a large majority of the country agrees with this analogy!
    October 8, 2013 at 2:49pm · Like · 1

    Rush Beck Idiot: A poll says that it agrees with the analogy of the President saying one thing when he is running for office, then the 180 degree opposite when he is in office? Must be a very credible poll. I don't need a poll to know a lie when I see one. I don't need a poll to see a President who is willing to hurt and harm the people he is entrusted to protect when it serves him politically. Leadership is not a popularity contest.. it is a question of character and morals. And this President has earned a "F" for his political gamesmanship and deceptions. Sorry.
    October 8, 2013 at 2:56pm · 1

    Other 1: How sad that you think providing health insurance for 30 million Americans is a failure, That people with pre-existing conditions can get coverage is a failure. That students can stay on the parents coverage is a bad thing. And while doing that, killing bin Laden, saving the American automobile industry, the Dow has doubled, college loans are more affordable, the war in Iraq has ended, we have a date to end the war in Afghanistan. The deficit is growing at the lowest level in a decade. Instead of cheering, the nut jobs say it could have been better. What pity.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:15pm · Unlike · 1

    Rush Beck Idiot: As soon as you call your principled opposition nut jobs, the argument has to end, because you have become identical to the caricature you created of those you hate. I see the world differently then you do, and that difference hashed out in the marketplace of ideas is truly one of the defining aspects of America. But this President, and now you as his proxy, have no tolerance for opposition. He prosecutes those who leak the excesses of his administration, and sets his spies on every American's emails and phone records. He answers the killing of an Ambassador with a yawn, and still won't account for his own actions in that night's chain of command. He uses his power to inflict misery to make a political point about the budget while maintaining his own comforts. You credit him for every victory of capitalism, and insulate him from every noxious decision he makes in the name of raw partisan politics. This is the man you stand with... and you call his opponents nut jobs. Sorry, not going there.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:23pm · 2

    Other 1: I call them nut jobs because they are. They cheer for Ted Cruz who spoke for 21 hours and said nothing. He then voted for the bill he was speaking against. They complain about every accomplishment and yet offer no alternative ideas. The idolize Reagan, even though he tripled the deficit. They supported Bush when he doubled the deficit. You speak of the marketplace of ideas, it would be nice if the loyal opposition offered something. You blame Obama for a program started by Bush. And btw, they aren't listening in or reading all of your personal stuff. They are looking for patterns of phone calls to catch terrorists. Benghazi bothers you, OK. What would you have done differently? I really want to know what you would have done? The house caused the shut down and they are getting their paychecks. Are you complaining about that?
    October 8, 2013 at 3:33pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: Other 1, here's the way this works... you can either have a conversation with me, or you can call me a nut job. But you can't do both. You get to choose. So far, you're on nut job. If you want to make a new choice, that's entirely up to you.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:36pm

    Other 1: OK, I never called you a nut job.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:38pm · Like

    Me: Rush Beck Idiot, FoxNews, Romney and all the right-wing talking heads saw the same polls that I and the rest of America saw prior to the 2012 elections. Which of us were shocked to see Romney lose on election night? So if you think that the polls indicate that the GOP is strengthened by taking this country off the cliff -- oh well sucks for us. Moderate Republicans, Independents and moderate Dems are just tired of the GOP.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:46pm · Like · 1

    Rush Beck Idiot: Here's what bothers me Other 1... this administration doesn't trust you or me enough to have the information to make our own decisions. They passed Obamacare using legislative parlor tricks without anyone really knowing what was in it. And we are getting surprise after surprise. They squirreled away every person who was on the scene in Benghazi and refused to make them available to testify. They targeted politically opposed groups for special handling by the IRS, and then let their "bagman" take early retirement. The NSA thing never would have come to light, which by the way is a lot more than looking at patterns, if Snowden hadn't sought asylum. They prosecute administration officials who talk to reporters more than all past administrations combined.

    It all adds up one way.. control through disinformation and silence. Even now, with the CR, Obama won't speak except to call people who disagree with him "nut jobs." No respect for the fact that these are not issues of right vs. wrong, but different ways of seeing the world. Different beliefs, different interests. This administration wants more control over my life, my money, and my choices, and I'll fight them every inch of the way.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:48pm · Edited · 1

    Rush Beck Idiot: Me, when my political opposition starts offering me advice on how to succeed, which is inevitably some variation of "Be more like me," I tend not to take it terribly seriously.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:51pm

    Me: Then I guess you knew Romney was going to lose. Good for you!
    October 8, 2013 at 3:53pm · Like

    Other 1: With the Affordable Care Act, it will be modified as we move forward. So any mistakes will be fixed. There have been 40 or so modifications so far. In regards to Benghazi, what do you think happened and why? What would you have done? The IRS investigated 300 groups filling for a 501 C4. Some conservative and some liberal and I believe 293 received their exceptions. I don't think 501 C 4 should exist. I think most of them are frauds. Most people think a clean CR would pass the house, but Boehner won't even bring it up for a vote. Just wondering how you know who the president talks to? Are you bugging his phones? I would respect conservatives more if they offered plans.
    October 8, 2013 at 3:57pm · Like

    Me: Oh and no matter how loud and how often you said it, only your loyal were buying it. Rinse and repeat!
    October 8, 2013 at 3:58pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: "Any mistakes will be fixed." With a straight face? Truly?
    October 8, 2013 at 3:58pm

    Me; Well they will be fixed when we replace the party of NO in 2014.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:01pm · Like

    Other 1: Yes, like I said 40 revisions have happened so far. I want it to work and would support common sense revisions to make it work better.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:03pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: We'll see how that works out. Sadly, I have to get ready for dinner, so we'll have to suspend this for a bit. No one has really effectively answered (My) copying of my earlier post of Obama's flip flop on the deficit, and he said it so definitively each time! But I sort of expected that....
    October 8, 2013 at 4:05pm

    Other 1: I'm not sure what flip flop you are referring to. When Bush took office the country was running a surplus and at that time, with the economy doing quite well, it did seem like a mistake to raise the debt ceiling. For various reasons, the economy tanked (mostly non-regulation of the investment banking industry) and conditions have changed. It doesn't make sense to cut the deficit and reduce services for the needy during a recession. As the economy improves and people need fewer government services, we can reduce social programs and work to reduce the deficit.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:11pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: I'd vastly prefer a simple and honest, "Because I support my guy even when he's a hypocrite." Wendy advises me not to do that, but I respect people who stand up for their candidate even when he commits blunders like this.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:19pm

    Other 1: Quick to criticize and slow to offer a better plan. Does the GOP has anything to offer?
    October 8, 2013 at 4:22pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: Yes. Opposition until this President plays fair with all Americans.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:24pm

    Other 1: Ha ha ha, the emperor has no clothes, the GOP is devoid of ideas. You have lost 5 of 6 presidential elections. On your way to losing another 2. You only have house majorities because of gerrymandering. You are a dying party until you start offering ideas. Opposition without a plan is a waste of time.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:26pm · Like · 1

    Rush Beck Idiot: I did none of those things, Other 1. You are still confused. You don't understand the difference between interests and correctness. You'll never get out of the trap you have laid for yourself until you do. Take care. I'm off to dinner.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:29pm

    Other 1: I am correct, you have never offered a plan. Nothing to make health care better. You offered nothing on Benghazi. Your only offering was to say NO. Talk about weak leadership.
    October 8, 2013 at 4:40pm · Like · 1

    Me: Here's another analogy. The other day a study suggested that Einstein's genius may have come from very well-connected brain hemispheres. When I hear statements like, "You don't understand the difference between interests and correctness." or, "Opposition until this President plays fair with all Americans." all I see is a tin foil hat wedgie that has totally severed the two brain hemispheres and left the GOP with it's regal gibberish showing. The arguments are sooo obtuse!

    You know what, I and many people were against the Iraq War. We were called un-American. At the end of the decade -- we were right. Yet, we didn't force people to shutdown the government because we didn't get our way. Only children do things like that!!

    http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/...

    The corpus callosum of Albert Einstein‘s brain: another clue to his high intelligence?
    brain.oxfordjournals.org
    We use cookies to enhance your experience on our website. By continuing to use o... See More
    October 8, 2013 at 5:57pm · Like · Remove Preview

    Me: The GOP needs to go back to the days when they refused to debate the Iraq War because they were too focused on voting to change the name of French Fries in the cafeteria! We want those children back!
    October 8, 2013 at 6:14pm · Edited · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: It would be amusing watching the left ignore the same tactics used in the Nixon administration, except considerably worse, by their own administration, if it weren't for the damage they are causing the country. Excuse me...not ignore it.... Embrace it. It just proves that positions are not based on principles, but interests.

    Moreover, while my side is accused by the opposition of being nut jobs and parenthetically stupid by association, only one side in this debate is actually using those names... and it's not us.

    I think what's changed in politics is the level of rank meanness attached. In years past, we could understand why people with different interests held different positions, debate them, and let our system of government thrash it out. Now, it's all name calling and condescension. My guess is that the middle of the country is out of patience with this, and will reject it from both sides.

    This has been an instructive day.
    October 8, 2013 at 9:29pm

    Other 1: Still waiting for a plan Stan. Sorry that your Southern sensibilities can't get beyond a mild insult from 4 hours ago.
    October 8, 2013 at 9:54pm · Edited · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: My plan, such as it is, is to learn how to defeat people who think like you. That's a never ending task, since your positions change completely based on whether an initiative originates from your side or the opposition... the lack of positional integrity is something I hadn't anticipated. The continuous offense... never answer, always push, always demand... well, that's just Obama 101. Nothing really new there. As for the insults... well, they really say a lot more about you than me, don't they? No, don't answer that. I think it's pretty evident.
    October 8, 2013 at 9:59pm

    Other 1: Your goal is defeat me? I want America to succeed and your goal is to defeat me. You have no chance. You stand for nothing. You seem only to care about power. You don't want to make peoples life's better. If you have nothing offer, why are you bothering to post anything at all? I now understand why some on the right like Ted Cruz who spoke for 21 hours and said nothing. You claim to have principles, but you don't stand for anything other than defeated Americans. What do you stand for?
    October 8, 2013 at 10:05pm · Like

    Rush Beck Idiot: Everything you don't even begin to understand, Other 1. Take care.
    October 8, 2013 at 10:10pm

    Other 1: All hat, no cattle. Got it.
    October 8, 2013 at 10:11pm · Like

    Me: Like you said earlier, "Me, when my political opposition starts offering me advice on how to succeed, which is inevitably some variation of "Be more like me," I tend not to take it terribly seriously." Brian, I never said be more like me. You came here to try to find a message to manipulate others for power and not for good. Figure out your own message . . . like you said . . . that's your job! As for name calling . . . if the behavior fits wear it proudly! Changing the name of food in the lead up to the Iraqi War while giving tax breaks and having no discussion about how the War was going to be paid for because Cheney promised the troops would be "greeted with rose pedals" and the War would be short and paid for by the Iraqi oil -- just ain't adult? How'd that work out for you guys? Really, if that's your idea of adult behavior and the understanding of history . . . then I'm sure you can offer your followers unicorns and lollipops and they'll meet you at the end of your rainbow! And if that's name calling and if that is parenthetically calling you stupid then so be it. I'm a parent of a 20 year old and I know childish behavior when I see it. Cheers!
    October 8, 2013 at 11:55pm · Edited · Like

    Me: In summary, my advice -- you lost, take your licks, FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTIONAL RULES OF REPEALING A LAW, and move on.
    October 9, 2013 at 12:04am · Like

    Me: The 2013 Rose Pedals gift wrapped for the GOP! http://www.nytimes.com/....

    Many in G.O.P. Offer Theory: Default Wouldn’t Be That Bad
    www.nytimes.com
    President Obama and Speaker John A. Boehner had been counting on the prospect of... See More
    October 9, 2013 at 12:58am · Like · Remove Preview

    Rush Beck Idiot: Wendy, I wish you and Todd all the best, but you both are uncivil and your arguments are, well, they aren't arguments but strings of insults. This started with a request that you answer the hypocrisy of Obama's comments, and you have not, because you cannot. And because you have no answer to it you attempt to distract, distort, and simply lie in service of what you want to believe. Which, is of course, what the President chooses to do himself. If you wish to refriend me in the future, please start with an apology for that.
    October 9, 2013 at 1:10am

    Other 2: Late to join this wild rumpus but Obama on the deficit: http://www.politifact.com/...

    Obama says deficit is falling at the fastest rate in 60 years
    www.politifact.com
    President Barack Obama aimed to refocus the national debate and put the economy ... See More
    October 9, 2013 at 7:49am · Edited · Like · Remove Preview

    Other 2: I acknowledge that in 2006 Senator Obama spoke against raising the debt ceiling but a legislator has a different perspective than a President.
    October 9, 2013 at 7:59am · Edited · Like

    Other 1: Rush Beck Idiot, nice attempt at a deflection, but I have noticed that in the marketplace of idea, your booth is empty.
    October 9, 2013 at 8:17am · Like

    •  Wow (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK, mswsm, a2nite

      That's a lot of stuff, and if you edited it to protect identities on top I'm sure it was a lot of work.

       

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 01:24:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's a douche but I'm protecting myself I guess. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AnnetteK, a2nite, tobendaro, LeftHandedMan

        He bought a Tesla because it was cool in LA. As I recall made a HUGE point to say it had NOTHING to do with global warming!!!

        I'm ashamed, at some level, that I won't share his name. But he has major fire power and I don't. In addition I can't count on the Supreme Court to be there, so whatever.

        Bottom line of my post . . . the hard right is trying to reframe since Oct. They could care less about anything other than getting votes. They are so desperate they are sending Beck out to call the "Liberals" correct on Iraq and calling for no more death.  

        This strategy is sad and sick!!! But may just work!!!

    •  Looks like a diary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LeftHandedMan

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 03:11:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you! I said the same damn thing (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, CenPhx, LeftHandedMan

    about that awful fuckery "there was no indication the people of Iraq had the will to be free" - fucking piece of shit lying shit bag fuck.

  •  My first thought when I read the headline (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CenPhx, LeftHandedMan

    about GB was how strong my gag reflex is and my second was "What is he up to?".  This is a total set up for something, maybe a candidate he is going to support, maybe a broader overall strategy of republican positioning.  I just know it is wrong.  I didn't read the diary because the idea that GB is correct or that he said something agreeable is bs.

    Everyone! Arms akimbo! 68351

    by tobendaro on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 04:13:28 AM PDT

  •  Tipped & rec'ed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CenPhx, LeftHandedMan, leoluminary

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 04:24:12 AM PDT

  •  I agree with your precept (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan

    Basically Glenn Beck can go fuck himself.  With a cactus.  There's nothing that will ever come out of his mouth that I won't look for a hook in.

    But (you saw that coming right?)

    If there's a kernel of good in his faux contrition, it's that it plants a seed among his following that he's not "pure enough" for the movement anymore.  Between this and his suspiciously almost-reasonable sounding comments on the Bundy Ranch kerfuffle, he may have opened a small tear in the fabric of the right wing.  The question of whether or not the left has the will or the belly to exploit it remains, but the opening is there.

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:52:02 AM PDT

  •  Bravo. Well said. Thanks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, leoluminary

    Time to clean up DeLay's petri dish! Help CNMI guest workers find justice! Learn more at Unheard No More.

    by dengre on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:03:11 AM PDT

  •  it's a total "here's some flowers..." (4+ / 0-)

    "... now will you forget about all those times I hit you?" move on Beck's part.  He's doing something good so he'll have something to point at all those other times he does something shitty.  It's fake-credibility... and it may work for the dullards who follow him, but I see it for what it is.

    And it's an easy one, too.  Really who doesn't - at least privately -- know that Iraq was a big stupid mistake at this point?  I know they'll never admit it in public, but even the staunchest Republicans are thinking to themselves, "Damn Bush for being stupid and sending us into that mess," if only because it's a black eye on what they think is their "reputation."  Beck's just trying to look "reasonable" when he's anything but.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:51:01 AM PDT

  •  even a bad man may be redeemable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, Whamadoodle

    one of the enduring values of being liberal or a progressive or whatever nom du jour we pick, is that we start with a presumption of innate goodness of people in general,  that people should get second chances and maybe even third and fourth chances, that they can learn and they can change.

    And then there is the more practical stopped clock analysis.  Anyone can be right on one small thing sometime even if they are normally wrong.

    But I think your analysis that Beck and many other right wingers sense the country simply will not accept going back to Iraq,  that Bush/Cheney have been totally discredited as liars on Iraq with the vast majority of people, and the wingers who want to continue to exploit the teabagger and radical right, aren't going to want Bush/Cheney administration members stealing the limelight from them or becoming the issue as they try to exploit current events against Obama.

  •  Well... (3+ / 0-)

    ...I clicked in because Mr. Beck is kind of a touchstone for me in the consideration of what people become.  When we were in HS together he wasn't some sociopathic monster, nor was he stupid and ideological in the mold of many...he was a kid with a golden voice who wanted to be a DJ, a voice so great he could get a real DJ gig in high school, and he was kind of a twit in the way that all HS kids are twits, but nothing about him then (a basically normal kid with enough independence to join drama club)  or the person who is now on the national stage (a genuine weird-ass American monster) makes me think he believes a damn thing he says in the media, one way or another.  I can't really give credit to someone, or refuse credit, unless there is something of integrity in their public career.  

    ...j'ai découvert que tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre.

    by jessical on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 07:27:53 AM PDT

  •  Oh, I totally read this. (5+ / 0-)

    I had the same thought if even for more cynical reasons.  Beck's just got a decent Spidey Sense about when things are about to go pear-shaped.  He figured out that Cliven Bundy was a meltdown waiting to happen and pulled away.  He knows re-intervention in Iraq is a loser for conservatives (even with media enabling, they're not getting much traction) and he's pulling away from that too.  I don't know if he's actually trying to steer some elements of the GOP base back toward sense (less likely) or he just doesn't want the inevitable mud to stick to him once it starts flying (far more likely), but either way, I'm convinced he made this "admission" for absolutely no one other than Glenn Beck.

    I hadn't listened to the whole piece - shame on me - because I regard Beck as something less than a buzzing gnat.  He's not even an annoyance, just a silly little man to be ignored.  I'm quite aware of the damage he and his ilk have done - I don't discount them as a societal menace.  I'm just saying my brain doesn't run as well at 44 as it did at 18, and frankly I don't care to waste any clock cycles on such a pointless being as Glenn Beck.  Point being, it's unsurprising to see he leavened any positive points of his "admission" with racist bullshit, but it's not like I'd have been giving him credit anyway, even if he hadn't done so.

    Not all people are human; not all humans are people.

    by Jon Sitzman on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 07:30:57 AM PDT

  •  Yes, it is incredibly facile and a bit racist... (3+ / 0-)

    ....to suggest that Iraqis don't want to be free.

    But it is neither of those things to acknowledge that what they define as freedom and what we define as freedom may be (and are, in fact) two different things.

    You can't define freedom in a societal context without defining law and order. Freedom ends where your laws stop. Your laws rest on the bedrock of your constitution, and those laws take years to be written, practiced, understood. The idea that you can drop an army into a foreign country and bestow freedom upon it is one of the most preposterous concepts ever foisted on the world. Can you use an army to stop a genocide? Sure. Can you use an army to depose a leader and install a puppet government? Absolutely. Can you use an army to create a free nation where by most standards of freedom there was none before? Give me a break.

    Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it.

    by The Termite on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 07:49:28 AM PDT

  •  nicely done sir (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan

    What Fresh Hell is This? -- Dorothy Parker

    by chazz509 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 08:45:25 AM PDT

  •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

    For my part, I can only speak to my own response to the diaries about it, which was:

    1) It's rare for anyone, on right or left, to say "you know, I fought like a dog on a bone over this, but you were right, and I was wrong." How often have you ever seen even your favorite person, or yourself, doing so? It's rare, and sorry, but it is commendable.

    but

    2) IF--if--it turns out merely to have been a pretext for bad-faith political machinations to come, then sure--THEN, If-Then, it will turn out to be a low road for Beck instead of a high road. Until then, I reach across the aisle and say "kudos."

    If you want to talk "weary," I'm as weary about people on my OWN side of any issue who aren't wo/man enough ever to say they were wrong as I am of anyone on the other side doing so. The point is not cookies. The point is LISTENING TO ONE ANOTHER. Respectfully. And honestly. Which we desperately need to give to AND receive from our fellow people.

    "If he offers you a Cookie? Assume there is nice crunchy glass in it. ... Lucy. Football. ... bad faith."

    Sure. MAYbe. If you want to say probably, sure. If you want to say "I'm still mad about x he did earlier," that's totally fair. But the one thing we shouldn't do is assume that an apparent taking of the high road IS bad faith, before it's been proved.

    What on earth do you lose if you say "kudos for saying you were wrong," and THEN say "but you acted in bad faith!" AFTER the bad faith is actually shown? I think you gain the high road yourself if you do that.

    •  TL;DR: Bad faith? Wait for it, don't assume it. (0+ / 0-)

      If you want to say "too much water under the bridge," then I understand that. He's been a complete jerk, and I've NEVER agreed with him until this moment. But why try to force all the rest of us bridge-sitters to have legs exactly as wet as yours?

      •  Since Glenn Beck (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Yonit

        has been demonstrating bad faith as a standard practice since he first broke into the media, trying to hang the Moon on the notion that the burden of proof is not on the serial conspiracy theorist and huckster of the offensive notions that liberals are doing everything from setting up death panels to kill the elderly and calling it healthcare reform to mass confiscations of guns, that the US government is hoarding bullets and gold, that Obama deliberately let people die in Benghazi, to secretly conspiring to allow the United Nations to attack American citizens via "Agenda 21", to overturning the Constitution so Obama can have a Muslim Caliphate run by his "friends" in the radical ranks of Jihad, and being perfectly willing to let peers and guests come on to imply that FEMA has an agenda to set up death and reeducation camps in secret locations... but instead place the burden of proof on those he has smeared, for years, in the past, that he is not acting in good faith is pretty ballsy.

        I'll pass.

        If you are unfamiliar with Glenn Becks years of crazy batshit bad faith, or you choose to ignore it because Civility meta over all, that's on you.

        "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

        by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:14:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What "hang the Moon"? (0+ / 0-)

          What is this hugely important thing that hinges on me saying "if he admits it when he's wrong, that's a good thing; our own side should do that more often too, and so should theirs. And if it turns out to be in bad faith as a ploy, then I'm free to say it was low when that happens, though it's perfectly possible and even probable"?

          Oh my God! Save me from myself! I granted the possibility of good faith to someone who will never read this!

          •  Again (0+ / 0-)

            If you are willing, for whatever reason, to ignore almost 20 years of serial bad faith, smears, attacks, lies, and distortions to pretend that there is no track record here to judge if there is a history of bad faith in regards to Glenn Beck then I'm free to dismiss and/or disregard you as not remotely persuasive, compelling, or worthy of any further consideration.

            Good luck to you. Concern troll is a lonely road.

            I couldn't care less what you have to say from here on out.

            I will not be replying to you any further.

            "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

            by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:30:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You lie--"ignore," I said, is what I'm NOT doing (0+ / 0-)

              I have repeatedly said -- in the very post you're replying to here, for example -- that it's "it's perfectly possible and even probable" that he has some underhanded reason for doing so.

              You lie.

    •  Well (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yonit

      1. Beck didn't actually do that. At all. He tied a link-bait line to an absolutely offensive conservative meme about people from the middle east not being capable of appreciating the gift they were offered. That's not admitting you were wrong. Or that the other side's point had merit. You have to actually state what the other side was actually arguing and that this was right to be given credit for good faith.

      2. Only a fool gives a person who has kicked them in the face a dozen times a thirteenth time to kick them in the face, deliberately disregarding past history. It's not just or noble to be deliberately naive in the face of a rather sustained and overwhelming history of acting in bad faith. The "Civility Meta" argument that you should ignore a litany of evidence and go by wishful thinking is not serving anything but the cause of enabling some of the worst practitioners of bad faith in our politics.

      What on Earth do you lose by choosing to see the world as you wish it was, by choice, rather the world that you actually reside in because it is unpleasant and requires you to think like a person who didn't just fall off a turnip truck this morning because real people get hurt, and by the score, for mistaking being foolish with being open-minded? A lot.

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 09:58:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What the? Then he didn't say: (0+ / 0-)
        “[Liberals] said we couldn’t force freedom on people,” Beck said at the start of his Tuesday radio show. “Let me lead with my mistakes. You were right. Liberals, you were right, we shouldn’t have.”

        Beck’s comments came as he discussed the increasingly partisan divide in politics, saying, “We were a mess in 2008. … It hasn’t gotten any better.” The radio personality explained his feelings that in the past five years the country has been “ripped apart.” To fix this divide, Beck called on the American people to come together on some issues, such as the VA scandal and Iraq.

        “From the beginning, most people on the left were against going to Iraq,” Beck said. “I wasn’t.”

        On Tuesday, Beck said, “You cannot force democracy on the Iraqis or anybody else, it doesn’t work. They don’t understand it or even really want it.”

        Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

        ?

        Granted, he's leaping to BS conclusions about Iraqis not wanting freedom, but he seems clearly to be granting that our expectations of instant embrace of perfect democratic principles were BS too.

        He didn't say the above?

      •  As to point 2, (0+ / 0-)

        think of it like alcoholism or drug abuse: if you've been ripped off by a drug addict before, or had your life ruined by him or her, then you will be wary when they announce that they're kicking it.

        Do you yell "NO YOU WON'T"? No. You say "that's great. I really hope it works out for you, and I wish you the best on taking a better road."

        If they ask for money, you say no. Understood.

        But you'll withhold the best wishes, or even the silence about it, too? Why? What is it costing you, if you reserve the right to say "you screw-up" later, if they prove to take the low road once again?

  •  I have to say (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Whamadoodle

    I didn't hear racism in his speech - it seemed brief, pointed and accurate - and I agree - not one more life.  We shouldn't have gone in.  Jonathan and I were in the huge NYC demonstration against our going in, we've been consistent on this - but I simply see no value in wasting time attacking someone, with somewhat (it seems to me) contrived logic for finally being able to admit that they were wrong, on this or anything else. I may not particularly like Glenn Beck, and I agree that he is clearly insane - but an adequately insane man who was less honest than he would NEVER had admitted that he was wrong when it will infuriate a fair number of the people who PAY to hear him.I think that this was something of a waste for a journal.

    Kind thoughts,

  •  Figured he would have to have something (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, Yonit

    disparaging to say either before or after.  There's no meeting of the minds with the right on much these days.  The base has been told (had pounded into them) a completely set of facts from the reality of the situation.  They hate us with a passion that is continually fueled by hate radio and tv.  

    We need to figure out a way to discredit hate radio and tv if we want to progress without the damned struggles.  Anything the Democrats, and this President specifically, try to accomplish for us little people gets treated with howling from the other side.  One step forward, three back.  It's frustrating to watch.  Maddening, actually.

    The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

    by AnnieR on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:14:50 AM PDT

  •  righteous. That is all. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan

    Eagles may soar, but at least weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

    by SnyperKitty on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 10:39:34 AM PDT

  •  This is just another Glenn Beck con-job. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, LeftHandedMan, Yonit

    Go forth, Glenn Beck and sin no more.

  •  "Civility means concern troll!" (0+ / 0-)

    So nobody be civil! EVER!

    And for God's sake, nobody ever admit it when you're wrong! After all, I never do!

    There are people who place no worth on admitting it when one is wrong, and who never do so themselves. Those people's word is worthless. If you're happy being one of those people, then be my guest--that is NOT a lonely road, though it should be. But the word of the person who can't admit he might be wrong is worthless. (If you can point me to any instances where this diarist has done better than Glenn Beck at admitting it when he's wrong, on an issue he fought hard for previously, I'd LOVE to admit I'm wrong, and I will.)

    Again, is Glenn Beck acting in bad faith? Again, as I've said repeatedly, it's understandable to assume that; despite any lying the diarist has done to assert the contrary, I do not ignore his track record. It is analogous to hearing from a substance abuser that they're cleaning up. Only a minority do so successfully; you don't lend them money; you assume privately that they may not make it; but you say "good--yes, take the high road."

    The person too impatient to scream "CONCERN TROLL," as the diarist is, to pay attention to the nuance -- or the plain statements, which he then lies about -- in the last paragraph, makes arguments careless enough that they deserve no credence.

  •  People are credulous when not hypocritical (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan

    Like what the babbling head is saying?  He's the greatest guy ever.

    Don't like what the babbling head is saying?  Clearly he is a grinning scarecrow sent here to torture and manipulate us: do not allow yourself to be distracted!

    Facts?  We don't need no stinking facts, we have our deeply held beliefs!

  •  Well, again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit

    thanks everyone who participated in good faith. I appreciate it very much. Thanks also for turning what was meant to be a midnight minute and turning it into something more than that.

    Movement Conservatism cannot do what it does unless it's enabled. It needs the deck to be stacked in it's favor, and its political opponents and umpires calling balls and strikes to be forced, or to choose because of deception or a stacking of the deck, to operate under different rules that don't apply to the Right by always favor the Right as a default.

    If you refuse to navel-gaze.

    If you resist substance-free bipartisanship-at-all-costs memes and mindsets, and being concern trolled into going against believing the evidence before you rather than somebody telling you that you are unciviil or being unserious because you won't play the rigged game by the conman's rules, the Right loses an advantage that they do not deserve.

    Bad faith is a fundamental foundational core value of modern Movement Conservatism. Literally, memes and talking points can and do change 180 degrees from day to day when that is what serves Movement Conservatism and the party that operates in its service best.

    Nothing enables bad faith like intellectually marginalizing the notion that bad faith exists at all, let alone that it's a major tool of the people who are doing all that they can to create a top-down Oligarchy in one of the world's greatest experiments in freedom and governance. Be wary of those who insist, or demand, that you always, no matter what you see telling you, to put yourself in a tactical and strategic disadvantage like hobbling yourself is noble or proves you are a good or better person or a wiser soul.  

    It's a scam.

    Nobody trying to put one over on you likes to have to work really, really hard to win their marks over. It's about the job being as easy as possible to pull off, and then repeat again for future gains and profits. What is the first thing a con man does to his victim when his victim starts to wise up? They act to shame, to undermine, to erode ones confidence in ones uneasy feeling that something is not right and needs to change. They tell you that you are crazy. Or being rude. Or being unreasonable because it's easier to kill a veal calf than something flying around that refuses to stay still and get culled like a good slaughterhouse sheep.

    One of my core beliefs after the 1990's is that political forces who mean you significant and lasting harm, besides desiring learned impotence in the face of their awful doings to help them keep on keeping on, is that they will demand that you act in a way that hobbles your ability to combat systemic bad faith in the name of noise and nonsense to "prove" you are open-minded or fair. By how they choose to define it, and on the fly.

    It's more than the idea that you are under no obligation to ignore your own two eyes and ears and instincts when somebody argues that you should disregard a mountain of evidence to shift the burden of proof away from those with a long track record of mendacious conduct to "prove" you are noble or focused on higher meta. It's actually vital that you disengage from playing a part in a long con that helps keep the deck stacked.

    It is important to empower yourself to always say "no, I am not going to play a rigged game with a stacked deck as if, if I just play long enough, it will become fair. Either because political sociopaths suddenly feel shame, or they just give up and quit a racket that works tremendously well for them for no good reason but Pollyanna-ish drivel and feel-good so it must be true nonsense.  

    Look at the various flavors of indignant poutrage and distracting temper tantrums that are thrown when you say "No". I don't accept that you are acting in good faith, and I'm not going to pretend I'm in a debate with a mugger because that works for the mugger. Or if you refuse to engage on the terms of somebody who is demanding that your default always be a position that puts you in a position to be faith-based rather than evidence based or in a position of not being able to defend or attack from a position of strength for pretty vapid and specious reasons.

    The Right loses when people wise up, stop acting like chumps, and go with their guts and with what they see, rather than going by what they are told to do by people who mean them harm.

    "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

    by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 05:52:42 PM PDT

    •  Beware of those (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yonit

      who council being good sheep in a time of political slaughterhouses and class warfare fueled cullings of social progress and justice.

      Dig deeper. Don't trust simply to trust, trust because your trust has been earned and verified. Never take the surface or the talking points or the memes of the day as being anything more than the tip of an iceberg you need to look deeper into.

      Glenn Beck did not say what the lazy beltway Village meme, or what some really decent and smart people assumed he said, because he said some magic trip words that made it easy to put your brain in the pickle jar of Pollyanna. It's about getting you to hear only the "good" parts and disregard the parts that will do you no good to disregard in favor of wishful thinking and faith-based fanciful fluff.

      From 1980 until now, Movement Conservatism went from being a fringe ideology to being the most dominant force in millions of lives. Especially marginalized and disproportionately burdened Americans lives. This is real, not paranoia or unserious and petty partisanship.

      Making getting you in the pen painless and easy, and thriving as a powerful force in whatever your environment because you see that a veal pen is a veal pen and not something that is in your best interests to waltz into, is something that you do as a service to everyone who depends on you and whose lives are made better or worse by your legacy when you are gone.

      Only a fool trusts a person with a long track record of behaving mendaciously for silly reasons that just enable more damage and pain to be inflicted on those who can afford it the least.

      "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

      by LeftHandedMan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 at 06:07:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What a big,fat load of self-aggrandizing bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

        Who, who in the actual fuck, on EARTH, did we see "council [sic] being good sheep"?

        Anywhere on here?

        "Bad faith" arguments and "behaving mendaciously" is EXACTLY what you did here:

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        When the guy or gal said nothing--zero--except that Glenn Beck said one thing that is preferable to another thing, though s/he made very clear that s/he doesn't think it makes Glenn Beck a good guy. S/he said NOTHING to indicate "magically filter[ing]" out anything that Glenn Beck had done before; yet you lied and said s/he had.

        Then, after reading--very clearly--that I said, SEVERAL times, that I'm sure Glenn Beck is probably acting in bad faith, you lied again, saying I am one of those who "ignore" Glenn Beck's history. Horseshit. It's right here in black and white--you saw me post that, and you lied about it. And you KNOW you lied.

        And you're sitting here claiming to be "evidence-based"? Uh, yeah--you're a regular Carl Sagan Junior. Truly "evidence-based" thinkers do not lie to thumb the scales, every time someone dares disagree with them. I have the right to disagree with you.

        It's fine to say "I'm sorry--I'm not convinced."

        It is NOT fine to smear people and lie about what they've said--right after they've said it--using exactly the same smear tactics that you call out the right for using.

        You KNOW you're lying about what we said. I said very clearly, and repeatedly, that it is possible and even probable that Glenn Beck is acting in bad faith. You're disgusting.

        •  Here in black and white eom (0+ / 0-)

          Right here in black and white

          You KNOW that I said, repeatedly, that Glenn Beck was probably acting in bad faith. You are pretending it's not so, and it's right here on the page. Everyone reading this can see it.

          If you think he's so awful at admitting it when he's wrong, well why not show us how it's done? Or have you never been big enough to admit it when you're wrong, after you fought hard for a position?

          I won't hold my breath; you don't seem that big a person. On second thought: thanks for not replying. I'm glad to have your bad vibes out of my space. Good night.

  •  This Diary needs to be read and shared (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yonit, Up to here

    with every breathing person we know.

    And, Please, please, send it to everyone at MSNBC. They do a great job but, when they act as though we are somehow  validated only when some right wing player seemly agrees with what is sane. It is really quite dangerous to lend any legitimizing power to these people.

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